Rubella

February 28, 1999

<< should we get her

immunized against that one, to protect her and her potential fetuses?

I know docs screen for rubella antibodies in the first blood tests

of pregnancy, but if she hasn't been exposed, what do they recommend

for a pregnant woman? Certainly not a vaccine while pregnant, I

would hope!

>>

Here is how I look at it..... Even if you and I were vaccinated as children,

by the time we had our children the vaccine most certainly (no matter what

they say) has worn off... So if you believe this, then most women of child

baring age are not protected against the disease. So if it were me, I would

not vaccinate her at 18.

JMO

February 28, 1999

I, myself, am wondering about the Rubella vaccine. During my last pgs. With

dd, my blood work showed that I was no longer Rubella immune. I decided to

have the vaccine (after much thought, prayer and worry). They gave it to me

after I delivered, before I left the birthing room.

I decided to have this mostly out of fear. When I was a little girl, there

was a boy my age in the town where we lived who's Mother had Rubella while pg.

with him. (This was 30 years ago) This little boy was in my class at school.

His Mom would bring him in every day. I don't know why he was in the class as

he was basically a " vegetable " . (I hate that term, just can't think of

anything else to describe what he was like)

He was incoherent and deformed and partially blind. To this day, his Mom

still takes him on walks down the street by his hand. It is soooo sad.

I will never forget this boy and it made such an impression on me that for me,

I chose to get the vaccine, regardless of the costs to my health. I am scared

that I have had it, but I would also be scared if I hadn't. It was a very

tough call for me.

I have been wondering also, about my dd, when she is older. Can't wait to

hear the imput on this one... Kerin

February 28, 1999

I am one of those who had the shot as a kid and, 20 years later, while

waiting for my titre test to comeback, I got pregnant (when the doc told

me that vaccine immunity can wear off, I was floored! I had NEVER heard

that before) Well, I was one of those whose immunity had worn off.

You cannot get the vaccine once pregnant, they just advise you to stay

clear of kids with rashes. The funny thing is that they've done studies

that have shown that kids rarely pass it to adults - it's usually gotten

adult to adult. I've struggled with whether or not to get the vaccine

before I get pregnant again, but have decided I'd rather take my chances

with the disease than open myself up to MORE chances of cancer or who

knows what else from the vaccine.

Don't worry about what you will do " then " When she's 18, you can educate

yourself and her more on the subject (who knows where the disease will

even be then, in terms of how prevalent) and let her make the decision

herself. I still say an unvaccinated child will grow into an adult that

will better handle the disease if and when they come in contact with it,

and may not even develop it even if they do. I wonder how many of the

women that have had problems with it WERE fully vaccinated as children,

and so comopromised their immune systems. But let her decide for herself

when the time comes, and don't worry about it now!

March 1, 1999

My sister was not Rubella immune during her first pregnancy in 1981 and

they just told her to try and be careful. No, they can not vax during

pregnancy! She did get one after her baby ws born back then. I believe you

are suppose to wait at least 3 months after the vax to get pregnant. Just

what I remember with her. Hope that helps, Ann

> I'm wondering, if at say, age 18 yrs, my

>daughter has not been exposed naturally to rubella, should we get her

>immunized against that one, to protect her and her potential fetuses?

> I know docs screen for rubella antibodies in the first blood tests

>of pregnancy, but if she hasn't been exposed, what do they recommend

>for a pregnant woman? Certainly not a vaccine while pregnant, I

>would hope!

March 1, 1999

With the Rubella vaccine, I would be concerned that the Rubella vaccine virus

would circulate within my blood and persist (possibly mutate) and infect my

unborn child.

When viruses enter our bodies through vaccine (directly into the blood), we

don't really know what happens to them. They may persist for a long time, they

may mutate etc. Rubella virus has been found in infants after their mothers had

been previously recently vaccinated. This is a bit of a worry.

I have also seen plenty of evidence that Congenital Rubella Syndrome still

occurs in many fully vaccinated mothers. This may happen less than in vaccinated

mother...that I don't know.

The other thing to consider is that any vaccine is only estimated to last

between 2-10 years before it wanes. So vaccinated an 18 year would offer limited

protection into her childbearing years.

The risks of congenital rubella syndrome in children seem to vary. A study below

rates the risks from mothers susceptible to Rubella at 1.7%. So if you do get

Rubella in pregnancy, it shouldn't be automatically assumed your child have

congenital rubella syndrome (CRS). In fact, the risks seems kind of low....but I

haven't done alot of research on this so i'm not really sure.

I would risk it with the natural disease, but again, my knowledge is limited.

This is where personal responsibility comes in, we have to live with our

decisions. The only way we can do that is to learn as much as possible

beforehand

Sebastiana

I have included the references below that I take some of my ideas from.

From URL:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=7085069 & form=6 & db=m & Dopt\

=b

Infectious Immunology 1982 May;36(2):498-503

Rubella-specific immune complexes after congenital infection and

vaccination.

Coyle PK, Wolinsky JS, Buimovici-Klein E, Moucha R, LZ

Circulating immune complexes which contained rubella-specific

immunoglobulins were detected in 21 out of 63 subjects with

congenital rubella and in 39 out of 65 subjects vaccinated with attenuated

rubella virus, but in none of 43 subjects susceptible to

rubella or 87 subjects with remote naturally acquired immunity to rubella.

The presence or level of circulating immune complexes

and the presence of rubella-specific complexes did not correlate with

conventional serum rubella hemagglutination inhibition

antibody titers. In the group with congenital infection, the presence of

specific complexes many years after birth was associated

with late-emerging clinical problems involving several organ systems. In

vaccinates, the presence of specific complexes was

associated with a higher incidence of side reactions. Two-thirds of the

vaccinates and all of those revaccinated showed specific

immune complexes as late as 8 months after immunization.

PMID: 7085069, UI: 82212690

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From URL:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=7099094 & form=6 & db=m & Dopt\

=b

Medical Journal of Australia 1982 Jun 12;1(12):514-5

Congenital rubella after successful vaccination.

Bott LM, Eizenberg DH

We report a case of a patient who had a subclinical rubella infection in the

first trimester of pregnancy which resulted in the

delivery of a baby suffering from congenital rubella. Rubella virus vaccine,

liver attenuated (Cendevax) vaccine had been

administered to the mother nearly three years before, with proven

seroconversion from a rubella haemagglutination-inhibition

titre of 1:10 to 1:80.

PMID: 7099094, UI: 82245112

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From URL:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=4001743 & form=6 & db=m & Dopt\

=b

Rev Infect Dis 1985 Mar-Apr;7 Suppl 1:S95-102

Fetal risk associated with rubella vaccine: an update.

Bart SW, Stetler HC, Preblud SR, NM, Orenstein WA, Bart KJ, Hinman AR,

Herrmann KL

One hundred nineteen women susceptible to rubella received RA27/3 vaccine,

94 received either Cendehill or HPV-77

vaccine, and one received a vaccine of unknown strain in the three months

before or after their estimated date of conception.

They gave birth to 216 living infants free of abnormalities compatible with

the congenital rubella syndrome (CRS). The maximum

theoretical risk for CRS for these infants was 1.7%. Four of these infants

born to susceptible women had laboratory evidence of

subclinical infection (three after receiving Cendehill or HPV-77 vaccines

and one after receiving RA27/3 vaccine) but were

normal at birth and at subsequent follow-up examinations. Rubella virus was

isolated from the products of conception for only

3% (1 of 32) of cases involving susceptible women who received RA27/3

vaccine; the reported rate of virus isolation for

Cendehill and HPV-77 vaccine is 20%. The available data indicate that if

vaccination occurs within three months of conception,

the risk is negligible. However, since the actual risk may not be zero,

women known to be pregnant should not be vaccinated,

and conception should be avoided for three months after vaccination.

PMID: 4001743, UI: 85218139

March 4, 1999

Post from Edda

Thank you Sebastiana for posting an invitation to further dialogue on

Rubella. Perhaps some of you have seen Coulter's testimony before

Congress (April 16, 1997) to the Committee on Appropriations, subommittee on

Labor, Health and Human Services. Dr. Coulter presents an analysis of the

link between numerous vaccines and the precipitous rise in juvenile onset

insulin dependent diabetes. The whole document, is posted at the National

Vaccine Information Center's website at: www.909shot.com This excerpt is

from that document and is about Rubella. It seems that those who get Rubella

and recover are NOT at risk for diabetes, whereas those who have been

vaccinated or are born with congential rubella syndrome are at risk because

they develop " rubella-specific immune complexes " that can target the

pancreas and lead to diabetes. The question is how do we enable children to

have the disease naturally to gain the benefit of life-long immunity from

Rubella and protection from diabetes, yet protect pregnant women and their

unborn children from exposure?

--------------------------------------------------

---------------------------

The Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccine

The MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine, especially its mumps and rubella

components, has been especially implicated in the causation of Type-I

diabetes.

A. Rubella and the Rubella Vaccine

Of the three vaccines making up the MMR shot, the rubella component is the

major suspect because rubella (German measles) itself, like mumps, is known

to be a cause of diabetes and the action of the vaccine resembles that of

the disease. If the disease can cause diabetes, so can the vaccine.

Let us first look at the disease.

Rubella Virus Causes Diabetes - In 1978 Margaret Menser wrote: " Since 1968

there has been increasing interest in the possibility that viral infection

may play a part in the etiology of diabetes mellitus in man...[but] only one

virus consistently produces diabetes in man - the congenitally acquired

rubella virus. " (13)

" Congenital rubella syndrome " is the name given to the group of impairments

and disabilities often seen in babies whose mothers become infected with

rubella during pregnancy. These impairments include: heart disease, mental

retardation, deafness, and blindness. E.J. Rayfield and colleagues wrote in

1986: " The congenital rubella syndrome provides the best documentation in

humans that a viral infection is associated with the subsequent development

of insulin-dependent [Type-I} diabetes mellitus. " (14)

In the 1960's and 1970's, researchers came to realize that the effect of the

rubella virus does not end at the moment of birth, but that it remains in

the organism of the baby and continues to exert its influence for many years

thereafter. Especially to be noted is the fact that up to 20 percent of

these individuals later come down with Type-I diabetes. This may take from 5

to 20 years to develop, indicating that the rubella virus remains active in

the organism for all that time. (15)

This virus acts by forming " rubella-specific immune complexes " (an immune

complex " is a mixture of the rubella virus and the antibody to it). P.K.

Coyle and colleagues showed in 1982 that such immune complexes are found in

individuals with congenital rubella and also in persons vaccinated against

rubella. They were not found in persons who had never been infected with

rubella nor in those who had had the disease naturally and recovered from

it. These immune complexes can and do act on the pancreas. (16)

In 1989, Numazaki and colleagues infected laboratory cultures of human

pancreatic islet cells with rubella virus. They found that these infected

cells produced much lower levels of insulin and concluded: these results

suggest that rubella virus can infect human pancreatic islet cells and that

such infection may lead to significant reductions in levels of secreted

insulin. " (17)

Thus, rubella itself has been demonstrated to be a causal agent in Type-I

diabetes. How about the vaccine?

Rubella Vaccine Virus Persists In Body - P.K. Coyle and colleagues

demonstrated in 1982 that " rubella-specific immune complex formation is

frequent after vaccination and could be demonstrated in two-thirds of an

unselected group of vaccinates for as long as eight months after

vaccination. " (18) In fact, the virus has been found to persist in the body

of the vaccinated person for as long as seven years after vaccination. (19)

This is not surprising, given that in congenital rubella syndrome the virus

can persist for at least 20 years and, probably, for a lifetime. (20)

Thus, there is no reason to make a distinction between rubella virus

entering the organism as part of the disease process and the same virus

entering via a vaccination. It is known, for instance, that " vaccinees

sometimes develop mild rubella, including rash, lymphadenopathy, fever, sore

throat and headache. " (21) In adult women this occurs in about half the

vaccinees. (22)

In both cases, immune complexes are formed and persist in the host organism

for lengthy periods. Immune complexes from a vaccination can attack the

pancreas just as easily as if they were from congenital rubella syndrome.

The actual mechanism of such an attack on the pancreas is probably

multifactorial. Aside from the possibility that the immune complexes attack

the islet cells of the pancreas directly, there is also the likelihood that

they generate an allergic (anaphylactic, hypersensitive) or autoimmune state

with subsequent autoimmune destruction of the pancreas. Margaret Menser

wrote:

" Clinically it is not possible to show whether the pathogenesis of the

diabetes initiated by the rubella virus is due solely to direct viral

invasion of the beta-cells of the islets of Langerhans, or whether the virus

induces an immunologic reaction in the islet cells, which then leads to the

development of diabetes. " (23)

E.J. Mayfield and colleagues wrote in the same connection:

" The mechanism of virus-induced diabetes is not known. Viruses associated

with diabetes in animals may cause disease by (1) directly lysing [i.e.,

dissolving] the beta-cells; (2) triggering an autoimmune response; or (3)

specifically impairing the secretory process of beta-cells through a

persistent infection. "

He concluded that option (2) was the most probable one: the generation of an

autoimmune state in which the body, as it were, becomes allergic to itself

or to a part of itself. (24)

The reasonableness of this explanation is enhanced by the observation that

the rubella vaccine can cause an allergic reaction. (25) A Canadian survey

in 1987 found " allergic reactions " in 30 children who reacted adversely to

the MMR vaccine. (26) Indeed, the possibility of an anaphylactic reaction

from the MMR vaccine is specifically recognized by the Vaccine Injury Table

in Title 21 of the Public Health Service Act (this table was developed as a

guideline for compensating victims of vaccination under the National

Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986, Public Law 99-660).

Diabetes after a rubella vaccination probably represents a combined effect:

the virus attacks the islet cells of the pancreas in an organism which has

already been weakened by an autoimmune reaction to the same virus.

----------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------

Rubella

>From: Sebastiana <pienaar@...>

>

>I sent a post a few days ago about Rubella. I didn't hear anything further

on this....I hope I didn't squash the conversation for some reason, I'd like

to hear other's views.

>

>Sebastiana

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>If you like orange and blue, then you will love our new web site!

>

>Onelist: ing connections and information exchange

>

March 5, 1999

Thank you Edda for the VERY interesting info. re: Rubella. I have a question

for anyone who may have any information along these similar lines. My sister

was working in an infectious diseases office and they insisted she have an

updated MMR vaccine??? Not exactly sure why, but did. And she got the

vaccine. This was approximately 6 years ago. About 6 weeks later, she

started getting sick all the time and, long story short, she was diagnosed

with CFS (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome)> At the time, no correlation was made

between the shot and the CFS. Now the biggie...She got pregnant and had a

beautiful little boy who, now 4, at 2 was diagnosed with Autism. He has never

been vaccinated. Is it possible that the MMR vaccine did something to her

system that affected her baby 2 years later?? Any info/opinions would be

greatly appreciated.

Nadine

P.S. He was recently re-diagnosed with Autistic tendencies, but severly ADHD.

They have been working with him for two years.

April 4, 2000

This is for anyone in UK. My daughter has German Measles...YES!!! I was

wondering if anyone has the phone number for the contact network for

parents wanting their children to contract childhood illnesses.

Thanks,

Ruth Acaster, Brighton, UK

December 12, 2000

This is a bunch of B.S. I live in Arizona and we've got 3,000 illegal a day

crossing the border looking for work and we don't' have outbreaks like this.

What a bunch of B.S. They just don't want to admit that the vaccine's lack

of efficancy had any play in this. Come on. If this information is true,

then why don't WE have outbreaks of whatever they don't vaccinate for in one

of the poorest countries like Mexico? <huf>

> -snip-

>

> Dr. Danovaro-Holliday and her colleagues believe that the outbreak was

> not attributable with vaccine failure

> or insufficient vaccination of children. They suggest that " new

> approaches must be found to achieve high

> vaccination levels among adults missed by the US school-based strategy. "

>

> The authors also point out that greater efforts are required to immunize

> women. They note that although 93%

> of the women in this survey were born outside the US, nearly half had

> delivered infants in the US, when

> postpartum immunization could easily have been provided.

>

> JAMA 2000;284:2733-2739.

>

> Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly

> prohibited without the prior written consent of

> Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the

> content, or

> for any actions taken in reliance thereon.

>

January 31, 2001

<<How would you answer this question that was posed to

me the other day

(and yes, I had the vaccine myself as a child, but am

choosing NOT to

vax my own kids),,,,

" Have you received the rubella vaccine for yourself?

How could you

prevent yourself from coming in contact with an

infected person while

pregnant, and therefore causing great danger to your

unborn child? " >>

This is an interesting point. A couple of months ago,

my two-year-old was having symptoms suspiciously like

he had rubella and I was in my early weeks of

pregnancy. I was concerned, not for him, because the

disease is not dangerous, but obviously was quite

concerned about the baby I'm carrying now. When I

called my midwives to ask them what I should do, they

checked my chart and found that I was immune to it

already (because I got the vaccine as a child). I was

so relieved, but it was such a contradiction in my

mind. It's a non-issue with my sons, but if I have a

daughter, it made me think. I'm not even considering

giving her the vaccine, and I suppose that by the time

she would be child-bearing age, she may have already

been exposed to the disease as a child? What do you

all think?

-Yahmeema, Washington, DC

Ben Zachoor 12/28/97

Giboriel 11/22/99

New baby EDD 07/17/01

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February 1, 2001

Hi everybody! I thought I had sent this a couple of days ago, but found it

on the task bar. Sandy

In the olden days, when I was young, she probably would have been immune. I

had rubella and never knew it until I got a test before I was married.

The rubella vaccine I don't believe has a great record re:longterm immunity.

So it's not necessarilyy going to be true that a vaccinated child will be

immune as an adult.

It is true that one difficult problem is the fact that if you have rubella

(and you may not even know it), you could spread it to a pregnant woman,

with potentially devastating results to the fetus. However, that likelihood

may be increased over time and compared to allowing the disease to circulate

naturally, not decreased, by vaccination, given waning immunity from the

vaccine and the fact that anyone who got it as a child would be extremely

like to have lifelong immunity. Sandy from Alaska

ALL INFORMATION, DATA, AND MATERIAL CONTAINED, PRESENTED, OR PROVIDED

HERE IS FOR GENERAL INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE CONSTRUED

AS REFLECTING THE KNOWLEDGE OR OPINIONS OF THE PUBLISHER, AND IS NOT TO

BE CONSTRUED OR INTENDED AS PROVIDING MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE DECISION

WHETHER OR NOT TO VACCINATE IS AN IMPORTANT AND COMPLEX ISSUE

AND SHOULD BE MADE BY YOU, AND YOU ALONE, IN CONSULTATION WITH YOUR

HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.

Re: Rubella

> <<How would you answer this question that was posed to

> me the other day

> (and yes, I had the vaccine myself as a child, but am

> choosing NOT to

> vax my own kids),,,,

>

> " Have you received the rubella vaccine for yourself?

> How could you

> prevent yourself from coming in contact with an

> infected person while

> pregnant, and therefore causing great danger to your

> unborn child? " >>

>

> This is an interesting point. A couple of months ago,

> my two-year-old was having symptoms suspiciously like

> he had rubella and I was in my early weeks of

> pregnancy. I was concerned, not for him, because the

> disease is not dangerous, but obviously was quite

> concerned about the baby I'm carrying now. When I

> called my midwives to ask them what I should do, they

> checked my chart and found that I was immune to it

> already (because I got the vaccine as a child). I was

> so relieved, but it was such a contradiction in my

> mind. It's a non-issue with my sons, but if I have a

> daughter, it made me think. I'm not even considering

> giving her the vaccine, and I suppose that by the time

> she would be child-bearing age, she may have already

> been exposed to the disease as a child? What do you

> all think?

>

> -Yahmeema, Washington, DC

> Ben Zachoor 12/28/97

> Giboriel 11/22/99

> New baby EDD 07/17/01

>

> __________________________________________________

> Get personalized email addresses from - only $35

> a year! http://personal.mail./

>

March 3, 2001

I can only hope so because I have two daughters. The older one got the shot

and is now immune but for how long? Just until she can have her children, I

fear. Another shot is not even an option because she got injured from

vaccination.

Quite a tricky situation.

And with almost all the children getting the shots nowadays how much chance

to actually see Rubella cases going around is there?

I have been wondering...

Maybe I will have to send my daughters to one of the less developed

countries so that they can actually get the disease....

a.

> <<How would you answer this question that was posed to

> me the other day

> (and yes, I had the vaccine myself as a child, but am

> choosing NOT to

> vax my own kids),,,,

>

> " Have you received the rubella vaccine for yourself?

> How could you

> prevent yourself from coming in contact with an

> infected person while

> pregnant, and therefore causing great danger to your

> unborn child? " >>

>

> This is an interesting point. A couple of months ago,

> my two-year-old was having symptoms suspiciously like

> he had rubella and I was in my early weeks of

> pregnancy. I was concerned, not for him, because the

> disease is not dangerous, but obviously was quite

> concerned about the baby I'm carrying now. When I

> called my midwives to ask them what I should do, they

> checked my chart and found that I was immune to it

> already (because I got the vaccine as a child). I was

> so relieved, but it was such a contradiction in my

> mind. It's a non-issue with my sons, but if I have a

> daughter, it made me think. I'm not even considering

> giving her the vaccine, and I suppose that by the time

> she would be child-bearing age, she may have already

> been exposed to the disease as a child? What do you

> all think?

>

> -Yahmeema, Washington, DC

> Ben Zachoor 12/28/97

> Giboriel 11/22/99

> New baby EDD 07/17/01

>

> __________________________________________________

> Get personalized email addresses from - only $35

> a year! http://personal.mail./

>

March 11, 2002

I would! Just like CP! And I am constantly keeping my ears open in case I hear

of anyone with the disease! Got my cherry-flavored cod-liver oil just in case

But in case my daughters contract this while preggers, I would advise the

services of a HP and increase said Vit A for the mother...hopefully they'll take

my advice.

Laurie

. What about my daughter who is not

immunized? Should I be trying to get her exposed to it (how???) like I would

for the chicken pox?

October 14, 2002

That is the main reason you want to let them get rubella. So they have life

time immunity. Ask your doctor exactly how long immunity last for the

vaccine. Know one knows.....I had rubella. Its like a cold...big deal...

October 14, 2002

She said that if my girls get the Rubella

as a women and especially a pregnant woman that could harm the fetus.

Have them get the shots when they are of childbearing age if they or you

still think it's a good idea. By that time, they may have a natural

immunity to it anyway. Why give a vax to a baby if the immunity from the

vax may wear off in X amount of years and it's only a risk for pregnant

women???? It's only logical to me.

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October 14, 2002

LOL,Duh why didn't I think of that

Chandi Haling

Mama to is (12-01-97) and

Peyton (04-01-02)

Saving the World, One Breastfed Baby at a time!!!!

Re: Rubella

She said that if my girls get the Rubella

as a women and especially a pregnant woman that could harm the fetus.

Have them get the shots when they are of childbearing age if they or you

still think it's a good idea. By that time, they may have a natural

immunity to it anyway. Why give a vax to a baby if the immunity from

the

vax may wear off in X amount of years and it's only a risk for pregnant

women???? It's only logical to me.

_________________________________________________________________

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

October 14, 2002

Chandi,

You might also might want to read my column on Rubella vaccine re:

congenital rubella syndrome:

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/Scandals/July_17_02/Scandal25.htm

It raises the question whether the rubella vaccine is actually

preventing congenital rubella syndrome. If it is not, even vaccinating

non-immune women may not be worthwhile.

Sandy from Alaska

http://www.vaccinationnews.com

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/Scandals/past_scandals.htm

http://www.whale.to

http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

http://www.909shot.com

http://www.redflagsweekly.com

http://www.thinktwice.com

http://home.san.rr.com/via/

http://www.vaccine-info.com

http://www.vaccine-info.com http://healing-arts.org/children/vaccines/

ALL INFORMATION, DATA, AND MATERIAL CONTAINED, PRESENTED, OR PROVIDED

HERE IS FOR GENERAL INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT TO BE CONSTRUED

AS REFLECTING THE KNOWLEDGE OR OPINIONS OF THE PUBLISHER, AND IS NOT TO

BE CONSTRUED OR INTENDED AS PROVIDING MEDICAL OR LEGAL ADVICE. THE

DECISION WHETHER OR NOT TO VACCINATE IS AN IMPORTANT AND COMPLEX ISSUE

AND SHOULD BE MADE BY YOU, AND YOU ALONE, IN CONSULTATION WITH YOUR

HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.

IN ADDITION, THE FACT THAT THIS EMAIL HAS BEEN FORWARDED IN NO WAY

NECESSARILY IMPLIES ENDORSEMENT OF THE POINT OF VIEW OF THE AUTHOR OR

AUTHORS OF THE ARTICLE OR EMAIL.

Re: Rubella

She said that if my girls get the Rubella

as a women and especially a pregnant woman that could harm the fetus.

Have them get the shots when they are of childbearing age if they or you

still think it's a good idea. By that time, they may have a natural

immunity to it anyway. Why give a vax to a baby if the immunity from

the

vax may wear off in X amount of years and it's only a risk for pregnant

women???? It's only logical to me.

_________________________________________________________________

MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:

http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

October 15, 2002

She said that if my girls get the Rubella

> as a women and especially a pregnant woman that could harm the

fetus.

>

> Any thoughts on that? is it something I really need to be concerned

> about?

WOuldn't they be " needing " boosters between now and then anyway? The

shots they get now usually " wear off " within a few years anyway,

don't they?

nisha

October 15, 2002

As I child I received all the recommended vaccines that were out. (My

mother has stated now, that had she known then what she does now though,

that would not have happened), but anyway......

When I was 22 I delivered my son. While preg they ran all the blood

tests that are done and discovered I was Rubella Non-immune. So before

I left the hosp, they said I HAD to have my Rubella shot. (yes, I know

better now). Also told me NOT to be around anyone that was preg for

atleast 3 days.

4 years later I was again pregnant. All the same blood tests were run

and guess what? I was Rubella Non-immune. Again. Did it not work?

Did it wear off? Who knows. But the tests revealed that I was

Non-immune.

8 months later my dh and I took the kids to my parents for a visit.

When we arrived we noticed a rash on my daughter. We thougth maybe a

heat rash from sitting in the car seat while we traveled? The next day

my daughter was running a fever and was a bit cranky, but other than

that she was fine. The rash lasted about 3-4 days, the fever about 2.

When we got home, I checked Mendelsohn's book (How To Raise A Healthy

Child In Spite OF Your Doctor) as well as asked her pediatrician and

found out she'd had Rubella. Other than the rash, fever and a bit of

crankiness, we had survived. HMMMM , and I never got it, yet I was

supposedly Non-Immune? Makes ya wonder.

Dina Mason

Mom to Dathon, 9, Aspergers, CP, Epilepsy

Virginians for IDEA Compliance

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/vaideacompliance/index.html

Cost of co-pay for vaccinations: $10.00

Cost of trip to Mcs after vaxing: $10.00

Cost of hospitalization after reacting to vax: $300,000.00*

Cost of avoiding vaxes and knowing your child never reacts: PRICELESS

* Actual bill

Re: Rubella

She said that if my girls get the Rubella

> as a women and especially a pregnant woman that could harm the

fetus.

>

> Any thoughts on that? is it something I really need to be concerned

> about?

WOuldn't they be " needing " boosters between now and then anyway? The

shots they get now usually " wear off " within a few years anyway,

don't they?

nisha

October 15, 2002

> When I took Peyton in for her 6 month check up <> Anyway,she did

also say that I should Definitely get the

> MMR vax for both of my girls. She said that if my girls get the

Rubella

> as a women and especially a pregnant woman that could harm the

fetus.

Hi Chandi!

At the age of six months your daughter isn't very likely to get

pregnant, now is she? The nice thing about the Rubella vaccination is

that this is one you can actually let your child decide on.

Vaccinating her as an infant is actually a way of decreasing her

chances of getting a natural infection which would lead to longer-

lasting immunity, and have whatever immunity vaccination would offer

wear off before she reached childbearing age.

So even as far as the safety of her future offspring goes,not having

her vaccinated now seems like the more logical option.

ATB,

Lilian

October 15, 2002

Chandi,

What bugs me the most in this scenerio is that one doctor says that " X " vaccine

is the most important and another says " Y " is the most important....I have found

several pediatrician and family doctors and other health people in the Milwaukee

area that don't recommend any vaccines and I'll give you names if you want. I

try to surround myself with people and health care professionals that support my

beliefs and that helps reinforce my decision. I also second the rubella

thing--if my girls are worried about it when they are older than they can

vaccinate themselves. Until then I have to do what I think is best for them.

L.

Proud mom to Autumn 1-13-97 & Zoe 8-8-00

Talk with other hip mom's about attachment parenting at

milwaukeeAPmoms-subscribe

----- Original

October 15, 2002

I would LOVE the names of the Dr's that are supportive of non vaxing

parents

Chandi Haling

Mama to is (12-01-97) and

Peyton (04-01-02)

Saving the World, One Breastfed Baby at a time!!!!

Re: Rubella

Chandi,

What bugs me the most in this scenerio is that one doctor says that " X "

vaccine is the most important and another says " Y " is the most

important....I have found several pediatrician and family doctors and

other health people in the Milwaukee area that don't recommend any

vaccines and I'll give you names if you want. I try to surround myself

with people and health care professionals that support my beliefs and

that helps reinforce my decision. I also second the rubella thing--if

my girls are worried about it when they are older than they can

vaccinate themselves. Until then I have to do what I think is best for

them.

L.

Proud mom to Autumn 1-13-97 & Zoe 8-8-00

Talk with other hip mom's about attachment parenting at

milwaukeeAPmoms-subscribe

----- Original

October 15, 2002

depends on where you are... what state/area are you in? I don't think there is

a public list of any kind because it's not safe (yes, there have been and

probably currently are spies on this list).

~ le