Re: When should I consider mB12 shots?

[Guest guest]

okay, I think I just found my answer:

http://onibasu.com/archives/am/55462.html

sorry to clutter up the board, everybody.

René

[Guest guest]

Rene,

My little guy didn't get much at all from the oral MB-12. In fact,

like you, I saw a bump one day (on my second go round with the oral

stuff) and that was that. Nothing else. I decided on the nasal spray

and once he was able to tolerate it well (came after our trial run with

liver life and NCD), it has been a staple here. I had tried the shots

a long time ago and it was a hellish process for all involved (up there

with the suppositories), though many parents have little if any

problems administering the injections. I don't know, maybe I just

stink at it. Anyway, FYI, until the NCD/Liver Life combo, he would go

a bit bonkers in a not good way when I gave the MB-12, either by

injection or up his nose. So, I just kept trying to reintroduce it as

he changed and when he took it, he took it. In fact, he took massive

amounts (4 sprays/day) for a few weeks and then I backed down

to " normal " dose, which is where we are now. We use the MB-12 with

folinic now, but are off the NCD until I am more comfortable that it is

not problematic (our hair aluminum went up during our month on NCD,

though it may very well have nothing to do with the NCD, since it

climbs every hair test).

Anne

>

> Hi all

>

> I have been giving my son oral mB12 for a while now, to little

> effect. The first day we had a nice little bump in language, though,

> and this is an area that needs help. My son is using 10 000 mcg

> daily. At what point should we consider switching to injections?

> Deos Andy have anything to say re: the adequate amount of oral mB12

> given daily to consider injections instead? (sorry, akward sentence.)

>

> thanks

> René

>

[Guest guest]

Does your son have yeast? Yeast will take all the B-12 that is why we

give injections.

[ ] When should I consider mB12 shots?

Hi all

I have been giving my son oral mB12 for a while now, to little

effect. The first day we had a nice little bump in language, though,

and this is an area that needs help. My son is using 10 000 mcg

daily. At what point should we consider switching to injections?

Deos Andy have anything to say re: the adequate amount of oral mB12

given daily to consider injections instead? (sorry, akward sentence.)

thanks

René

[Guest guest]

We had yeast, still the oral methyl B12 got in. Lots of people get yeast with

the shots, also.

[ ] When should I consider mB12 shots?

Hi all

I have been giving my son oral mB12 for a while now, to little

effect. The first day we had a nice little bump in language, though,

and this is an area that needs help. My son is using 10 000 mcg

daily. At what point should we consider switching to injections?

Deos Andy have anything to say re: the adequate amount of oral mB12

given daily to consider injections instead? (sorry, akward sentence.)

thanks

René

[Guest guest]

Anne, thanks for your interesting post. I've considered nasal B12

too, of course, and really I'm not sure which delivery route is worse

for us. (Would DS let us near his nose, ever?? Can this be done

while he is asleep?)

Another thing that I'm curious about is cost comparison between shots

and nasal. Our local compounding pharmacy charges well over $200 for

a month's supply of shots, which is out of the question. Apparently

if we get them through a pharmacy in Toronto they are around

$80/month, which *might be doable, at least on a trial basis.

What are you seeing with nasal B12?

thanks

René

> >

> > Hi all

> >

> > I have been giving my son oral mB12 for a while now, to little

> > effect. The first day we had a nice little bump in language,

though,

> > and this is an area that needs help. My son is using 10 000 mcg

> > daily. At what point should we consider switching to

injections?

> > Deos Andy have anything to say re: the adequate amount of oral

mB12

> > given daily to consider injections instead? (sorry, akward

sentence.)

> >

> > thanks

> > René

> >

>

[Guest guest]

, I don't think our son is terribly yeasty, as a rule. We have to

watch out for it during chelation, but it's not as big a struggle for

us as it is for other people.

René

>

> Does your son have yeast? Yeast will take all the B-12 that is why

we

> give injections.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi René;

We have two boys. One benefitted from B12, the other did not.

The one that benefitted, did so from oral B12 & folinic acid (a liquid

sold by Kirkman Labs). He has two mutations on the MTHFR enzyme, so

he is reliant for life on folate & B12. If we take him off, he goes

into depression and becomes less interactive and less cooperative.

The one that didn't benefit also had test results showing that B12

levels were off the scale (they only put " >2000 " for a range up to

less than half that amount).

As it so happens, the one that didn't benefit, we poked him with

needles for months. We never saw any benefit, and when we stopped, we

saw no regression. I suspect he has an enzyme impairment which is not

allowing him to use the B12. He also has very high methylmalonic

acid. Because of that we are now taking him to a Mito doc and running

more mainstream tests in very specialized labs.

There is another class of people who take oral B12, but it does not

get absorbed. Maybe due to a problem in the intestine walls. These

people need the shots.

I think the only way to tell is to do a test for blood B12, after

supplementing. I think this is the test we ran, maybe you can get a

script for it:

http://www.labcorp.com/datasets/labcorp/html/chapter/mono/ri011500.htm

Best luck,

Mark

>

> Hi all

>

> I have been giving my son oral mB12 for a while now, to little

> effect. The first day we had a nice little bump in language, though,

> and this is an area that needs help. My son is using 10 000 mcg

> daily. At what point should we consider switching to injections?

> Deos Andy have anything to say re: the adequate amount of oral mB12

> given daily to consider injections instead? (sorry, akward sentence.)

>

> thanks

> René

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I have a different take... I also used the oral form for my 4.5 year old son and

really didn't see a thing... Then I started him on the shots...Within 16

hours this little boy who only echoed commercials or used -one word labels

began talking in sentences(2-3 word at first) and answered his first open- ended

question ever! We have been using the shots for 14 weeks now and it has been

AMAZING! No one would ever be able to pry those shots from my hands, they have

been a miracle for my son! He is talking non-stop, singing, coloring, dancing,

ect........He gets the shots once every 3 days. I buy them from Hopewell and

they only cost about 48.00 for the month supply. Not getting a great response

from oral doesn't have to mean anything about how they will do with shots. It

works different for everyone but I would hate to see anyone close the door on it

without actually trying it (shots verses oral)

From: joshisims

Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 3:43 PM

Subject: [ ] When should I consider mB12 shots?

Hi all

I have been giving my son oral mB12 for a while now, to little

effect. The first day we had a nice little bump in language, though,

and this is an area that needs help. My son is using 10 000 mcg

daily. At what point should we consider switching to injections?

Deos Andy have anything to say re: the adequate amount of oral mB12

given daily to consider injections instead? (sorry, akward sentence.)

thanks

René

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I wish that we had a miracle as cited below. We started MB12 shots last

summer and didn't see a huge wow but they definitely, tangibly helped, our son

became much more aware and present. The fog seemed to have lifted to an extent.

We still use them and I would highly rx them to anyone. And giving them is so

easy - we put emla cream on our son's butt whil ehe's sleeping, wait an hour and

give the shot - he has no clue that it's happened - really low stress. Good

luck!

mlb228@... wrote:

Hi,

I have a different take... I also used the oral form for my 4.5 year old son and

really didn't see a thing... Then I started him on the shots...Within 16

hours this little boy who only echoed commercials or used -one word labels began

talking in sentences(2-3 word at first) and answered his first open- ended

question ever! We have been using the shots for 14 weeks now and it has been

AMAZING! No one would ever be able to pry those shots from my hands, they have

been a miracle for my son! He is talking non-stop, singing, coloring, dancing,

ect........He gets the shots once every 3 days. I buy them from Hopewell and

they only cost about 48.00 for the month supply. Not getting a great response

from oral doesn't have to mean anything about how they will do with shots. It

works different for everyone but I would hate to see anyone close the door on it

without actually trying it (shots verses oral)

From: joshisims

Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 3:43 PM

Subject: [ ] When should I consider mB12 shots?

Hi all

I have been giving my son oral mB12 for a while now, to little

effect. The first day we had a nice little bump in language, though,

and this is an area that needs help. My son is using 10 000 mcg

daily. At what point should we consider switching to injections?

Deos Andy have anything to say re: the adequate amount of oral mB12

given daily to consider injections instead? (sorry, akward sentence.)

thanks

René

[Guest guest]

Rene,

Cost is certainly an issue. The MB-12 shots were, for us, I think

about $90 a batch, though I don't remember how long that was supposed

to last. Not very helpful, I know.

When my son was finally tolerating the B-12, it was like he NEEDED it.

Maybe something else would have worked as well, but he was becoming

very drained on NCD at 3 drops, 3x day, LiverLive 5 drops, 3 x day

(worked up to over a 3 week period). We were still seeing good

improvements, even almost day to day, but he was tired.

I decided to give the MB-12 another shot, it was tolerated for the

first time, and I quickly worked up to 4 sprays per day over a four

day period with good energy resulting. I pulled him off the NCD a

few days later and dropped the MB-12 down to two sprays for a couple

of days, then one, where I have generally kept it (I forget on

occasion).

So, we got lots better energy (and mood, as a result) from the MB-

12. His language during that time was becoming more complicated, but

I don't know how much was the MB-12, how much the liver life, and how

much the NCD. Somehow, my gut tells me that the NCD reduced ammonia,

whether directly or indirectly, and that was something I had been

remiss in doing with my little guy:-(. He is an ammonia factory. I

could, of course, be totally wrong, but the benefits we got from the

NCD we seem to continue to get with alpha-ketoglutaric acid. So,

that is my theory.

Ultimately, I think we had to bring ammonia down to get the benfit of

the MB-12. Is that totally implausible? That methylating these kids

is easier when the ammonia load is light?

Anne

> > >

> > > Hi all

> > >

> > > I have been giving my son oral mB12 for a while now, to little

> > > effect. The first day we had a nice little bump in language,

> though,

> > > and this is an area that needs help. My son is using 10 000

mcg

> > > daily. At what point should we consider switching to

> injections?

> > > Deos Andy have anything to say re: the adequate amount of oral

> mB12

> > > given daily to consider injections instead? (sorry, akward

> sentence.)

> > >

> > > thanks

> > > René

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I know this is probably a REALLY silly question, but do the shots require a

prescription?

_____

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of Meade

Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 8:11 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] When should I consider mB12 shots?

Hi,

I wish that we had a miracle as cited below. We started MB12 shots last

summer and didn't see a huge wow but they definitely, tangibly helped, our

son became much more aware and present. The fog seemed to have lifted to an

extent. We still use them and I would highly rx them to anyone. And giving

them is so easy - we put emla cream on our son's butt whil ehe's sleeping,

wait an hour and give the shot - he has no clue that it's happened - really

low stress. Good luck!

mlb228bellsouth (DOT) <mailto:mlb228%40bellsouth.net> net wrote:

Hi,

I have a different take... I also used the oral form for my 4.5 year old son

and really didn't see a thing... Then I started him on the shots...Within 16

hours this little boy who only echoed commercials or used -one word labels

began talking in sentences(2-3 word at first) and answered his first open-

ended question ever! We have been using the shots for 14 weeks now and it

has been AMAZING! No one would ever be able to pry those shots from my

hands, they have been a miracle for my son! He is talking non-stop, singing,

coloring, dancing, ect........He gets the shots once every 3 days. I buy

them from Hopewell and they only cost about 48.00 for the month supply. Not

getting a great response from oral doesn't have to mean anything about how

they will do with shots. It works different for everyone but I would hate to

see anyone close the door on it without actually trying it (shots verses

oral)

From: joshisims

@ <mailto: %40>

Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 3:43 PM

Subject: [ ] When should I consider mB12 shots?

Hi all

I have been giving my son oral mB12 for a while now, to little

effect. The first day we had a nice little bump in language, though,

and this is an area that needs help. My son is using 10 000 mcg

daily. At what point should we consider switching to injections?

Deos Andy have anything to say re: the adequate amount of oral mB12

given daily to consider injections instead? (sorry, akward sentence.)

thanks

René

[Guest guest]

> Somehow, my gut tells me that the NCD reduced ammonia,

> whether directly or indirectly, and that was something I had been

> remiss in doing with my little guy:-(. He is an ammonia factory.

Would you mind talking a bit more about ammonia -- what makes it go

up, signs that the level is high, etc, whatever you know? It's one of

those topics I keep breezing by, thinking I'll get to it..another day.

Nell

[Guest guest]

There do seem to be some kids who just can't absorb the oral methyl B12 and for

whom the shots are miraculous. But like any other protocol, this number is low.

It was reported that the methyl B12 shots improve 90% of kids, that, IMO, is way

high, but when they work they work.

Another consideration is that when you raise a methyl donor such as huge amounts

of methyl B12 some kids will produce ammonia in response. So, like all

interventions, it is a mixed bag.

[ ] When should I consider mB12 shots?

Hi all

I have been giving my son oral mB12 for a while now, to little

effect. The first day we had a nice little bump in language, though,

and this is an area that needs help. My son is using 10 000 mcg

daily. At what point should we consider switching to injections?

Deos Andy have anything to say re: the adequate amount of oral mB12

given daily to consider injections instead? (sorry, akward sentence.)

thanks

René

[Guest guest]

can give you more technical information on how it is formally

determined if there are ammonia issues, since she had the test run.

For us, the big sign was spaciness. He is much less " in his own world "

now that ammonia levels have been brought down. I know that is not

very technical, but we didn't do any testing, so I don't know if we

have fully addressed it or not. Andy suggests AKG acid. I think Yasko

and Usman (and probably others) don't like AKG acid because I think it

can increase glutamate levels. High glutamate was a problem for Asher

when he was little (his neurologist actually ran a test which

determined this, although he had nothing to recommend based on the

results, of course). I added theanine to the mix, since it appears

that that blocks glutamate somewhat.

I know this is not that technical, but I am starting to believe that

this is one piece of the puzzle that is largely underaddressed on this

list. I really wish I had not breezed by it so many times.... It is

particularly a problem with kids who are on reasonably high protein

diets and kids with chronic infections, I think.

Anne

> > Somehow, my gut tells me that the NCD reduced ammonia,

> > whether directly or indirectly, and that was something I had been

> > remiss in doing with my little guy:-(. He is an ammonia factory.

>

> Would you mind talking a bit more about ammonia -- what makes it go

> up, signs that the level is high, etc, whatever you know? It's one of

> those topics I keep breezing by, thinking I'll get to it..another day.

>

> Nell

>

[Guest guest]

> Andy suggests AKG acid.

Which is also recommended for LOD.

>I really wish I had not breezed by it so many times.... It is

> particularly a problem with kids who are on reasonably high protein

> diets and kids with chronic infections, I think.

Thanks, Anne. I think we're in that group. , what's the test

for ammonia?

Nell

[Guest guest]

Come to think of it, I remember giving my son his very first dose of

oral Mb12 and it did great for a few days and then that was it. I am

going to be getting some from Hopewell soon. I am looking forward to

trying them. Now, how and where do you give the shots? The dr. said in

the thigh while they were sleeping possibly.

Thanks,

Trish

> > Andy suggests AKG acid.

>

> Which is also recommended for LOD.

>

> >I really wish I had not breezed by it so many times.... It is

> > particularly a problem with kids who are on reasonably high protein

> > diets and kids with chronic infections, I think.

>

> Thanks, Anne. I think we're in that group. , what's the test

> for ammonia?

>

> Nell

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The urine amino acid test shows ammonia levels.

> > Andy suggests AKG acid.

>

> Which is also recommended for LOD.

>

> >I really wish I had not breezed by it so many times.... It is

> > particularly a problem with kids who are on reasonably high

protein

> > diets and kids with chronic infections, I think.

>

> Thanks, Anne. I think we're in that group. , what's the test

> for ammonia?

>

> Nell

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Neubrander has very specific instructions for giving MB12 shots on

his website. drneubrander.com

>

> Come to think of it, I remember giving my son his very first dose of

> oral Mb12 and it did great for a few days and then that was it. I am

> going to be getting some from Hopewell soon. I am looking forward to

> trying them. Now, how and where do you give the shots? The dr. said

in

> the thigh while they were sleeping possibly.

>

> Thanks,

> Trish

>

>