Re: off topic question - Ruth

[Guest guest]

Boy this sound like my son too...slow processing, executive dysfunction, delay.

My son forgets everything, leaves things everywhere, comes home without books or homework. He is very disorganized and forgetful except for things like WWE or Nascar or RuneScape etc. etc. He can memorize the spelling words for the week and get 100 and next week not know how to spell them. He has a very hard time with sounds and sounding out words. He did well in math uptill 6th grade and then just squeeked by with a 70 for the year. His best subjects are social studies and history.

Your information is great! Thanks!

Jan

Janice Rushen

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>> Ruth,> My son also has very strong vocabulary. He just can't express hisfeelings or ask for something his needs. or explain a certainsituation. This is my son also. Rose, part of this is autism, i.e., the theoryof mind issues. You might want to look that up too. Theory of mindis being aware of other people's thoughts and being able to anticipatethem and how they play out. We typical people do lots of mind-readingwithout thinking that autistic people can't do. Part of the reasonyour son doesn't ask for things is because he isn't aware that youdon't already know he needs them. He may not be aware that otherpeople know things he doesn't, so he doesn't think to ask for help. And there are the sensory issues, like my

son not being able to tellthe difference between a tummyache and being hungry until he was inlate elementary.> the speech teacher is working with my son with his writing skillsand he's not good with spelling. it took him a long time to get thehang of writing a paragraph. he couldn't even write a sentence with acomplete thought. See, my son doesn't have this problem, in general. He is even atalented writer. But his stories are all physical action and dialog.He has an incredible time with assignments where he has to express anopinion or get into more abstract, generalizing thoughts. He can't doit on his own, and sometimes he just can't get what they are asking.And part of this is executive dysfunction. Another thing for you tolook up! Poor working memory and slow processing speed, my son hasboth, cause a person to have difficulty processing, organizing, andspitting back out their

thoughts.There's really a lot of neurological stuff going on behind the poorsocial skills in Asperger.Ruth

[Guest guest]

>

> I have a question...what state do you live in?� I can not believe

your child was turned down for an IEP.� We live in PA and there was

absolutely NO PROBLEM at all!� They did at one point want to put in

inclusion classes for language arts...and actually did so

illegally...but that happened when I was not educated to the law.�

I live in Texas. They have a whole different set of precedents for

the IDEA laws, it seems. I have talked to people in the system all

the way up to the state level and legal people, so I don't think I'm

missing anything. It also sounds like our kids have different needs.

It would not be appropriate for my son to be in anything other than

inclusion; the problem is the lack of special ed support for his

teachers as well as himself.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

> It's funny how the schools think they are discipling our children

like not letting them go to a party or putting them in in-school

suspension and it doens't bother them. When my son has to serve 2 days

in-school (6th grade), they put him in the audiotorium with a monitor.

He LOvED it! It was so peaceful adn quiet...no kids to tease him! He

got all his work done plue more! LOL.� JUst like they thought they

were punishing him by not letting him go to the party...he didn't want

to go anyways. They have there own way of thinking ...amazing!

Thanks for sharing this; it gave me such a smile. I have run into

this with my son too. In his 5th/6th grade intermediate school, he

would get lunch-time detentions for not doing work, and he liked

it--like you said, it was quiet and he actually had time to eat.

When he was in 3rd grade his teacher called me, very exasperated. She

had waited a long time to call me. She had been having my son stay in

recesses to finish his work, and it was getting to be an everyday

thing. She was obviously getting tired of it--would I please talk to

him? Well, it turned out he had decided that the things to do during

recess were less fun than the things he had to do at home after

school, so he had decided to make recess his homework time. When I

told him his teacher didn't like this and would like him to do his

work during class and at home like the other kids, he was indignant.

He insisted that it didn't bother her and surely she would say

something if it did. Because she wasn't overtly acting angry, like

any professional teacher, he was taking that as an okay. I never

could convince him. I just e-mailed his teacher and informed her of

the conversation and that I couldn't convince him. I never heard back

from her and always wondered what she thought.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

Ruth, does the school know of all the outside help your getting your son and that's why he is doing so well - even if he's working at a slower pace. I know you would never do this (the same as I won't ) but if you were to stop all that outside help, your son will regress and then they will see how much help he needs. but, it's your son that looses out. I'm so sorry you have to go through all this with your school. I KNOW how exhausting this is. I hope everything is better for you in September. and Ruth, you are 100% + right, If you are to move, you can get the best team working with your child. and if the CSE or administration changes, you are back to were you are now. doesn't that suck !. Roser_woman2 <me2ruth@...> wrote: Thanks for all the thoughts, guys!>> Ruth, I can understand and respect that. I also been in a schoolthat just wouldn't do anything for my son. almost to the point whereit look deliberate !. I had an advocate with me and they just didn'tcare. not the teachers, the CSE team. In our case, it isn't a matter of not caring. It's a long learningcurve. We keep progressing, but it is very slow. They keep givinghim more, not less, but we still have a very long way

to go.> I decided to take them out, I went to different schools and spokewith their sped dept and asked them questions about autism to see ifthey understood it. I think yanking my kids out of the only community they've ever knownwould cause its own problems. We aren't in a position to movefinancially anyway. And my son's situation is such, and our the wayour state handles SPED is such, that I'm not convinced it would be anydifferent. Not to mention that things change. Our school districtused to have a wonderful autism program that parents raved about. They got a new SPED director who dismantled it. > If your doing all the work yourself, would it be better for you tohomeschool ? or online school ? I have a full-time career, something I have no choice about forfinancial reasons, so no, that would never work. Unfortunately,private school is out of our budget.> With an autism DX isn't

it a violation for the school not to provideyour son with speech, social skills and life skills? Not if the child is "successful in the classroom" and "accessing thegeneral curriculum". Which is what they claim when the child is notflunking and not causing disruption.Ruth

[Guest guest]

you will benefit from a CAPT testing Roserushen janice <jrushen@...> wrote: Boy this sound like my son too...slow processing, executive dysfunction, delay. My son forgets everything, leaves things everywhere, comes home without books or homework. He is very disorganized and forgetful except for things like WWE or Nascar or RuneScape etc. etc. He can memorize the spelling words for the week

and get 100 and next week not know how to spell them. He has a very hard time with sounds and sounding out words. He did well in math uptill 6th grade and then just squeeked by with a 70 for the year. His best subjects are social studies and history. Your information is great! Thanks! Jan Janice Rushen Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant, Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt, Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide, Student, Believer, and Giver. >> Ruth,> My son also has very strong vocabulary. He just can't express hisfeelings or ask for something his needs. or explain a certainsituation. This is my son also. Rose, part of this is autism, i.e., the theoryof mind issues. You might want to look that up too. Theory of mindis being aware of other people's thoughts and being able to anticipatethem and how they play out. We typical people do lots of mind-readingwithout thinking that autistic people can't do. Part of the reasonyour son doesn't ask for things is because he isn't aware that youdon't already know he needs them. He may not be aware that otherpeople know things he doesn't, so he doesn't think to ask for help. And there are the sensory issues, like my son not being able to tellthe difference between a tummyache and being hungry until he was inlate elementary.> the speech teacher is working with my son with

his writing skillsand he's not good with spelling. it took him a long time to get thehang of writing a paragraph. he couldn't even write a sentence with acomplete thought. See, my son doesn't have this problem, in general. He is even atalented writer. But his stories are all physical action and dialog.He has an incredible time with assignments where he has to express anopinion or get into more abstract, generalizing thoughts. He can't doit on his own, and sometimes he just can't get what they are asking.And part of this is executive dysfunction. Another thing for you tolook up! Poor working memory and slow processing speed, my son hasboth, cause a person to have difficulty processing, organizing, andspitting back out their thoughts.There's really a lot of neurological stuff going on behind the poorsocial skills in Asperger.Ruth

[Guest guest]

Hi Ruth,I don't know what I would have done differently. It's such a hard problem. Roxanna seems to have hit on a great solution with her virtual school solution. Otherwise, I just don't know. We got approved for a private school paid for by public dollars, but that wasn't great. Perhaps I would have looked harder at a different public school with an aide. For example, the science and technology magnet high school. I just don't know. The virtual school sounds good because the kids can move at their own paces. The science and technology magnet might have been better than the regular public school in that the kids might have been more interested in learning than most kids. It's a tough problem. I just don't know the answer, even in retrospect. Sorry.LizOn Jul 4, 2008, at 10:32 AM, r_woman2 wrote:> High school was a disaster.Yes, I know they give kids like mine IEPs in other states (we are inTexas). Liz, since you've been through this, in retrospect, do youhave any advice for high school? My son is just going into 8th grade.Ruth

[Guest guest]

>

> Ruth, does the school know of all the outside help your getting your

son and that's why he is doing so well - even if he's working at a

slower pace. I know you would never do this (the same as I won't )

but if you were to stop all that outside help, your son will regress

and then they will see how much help he needs.

We actually did go through this this past school year (his 7th grade).

They called a meeting 3 weeks into school, said he was doing great,

and wanted to drop ALL of his accommodations. I had to do some fast

talking! I had been keeping stats, and I let them know how many hours

I was spending every week, how long it took to get him started on his

homework every night, and pointed out that this was a functioning

problem not an academic problem. To their credit, this stopped them

in their tracks, and they immediately put him into observation. He

remained in observation for two whole grading periods (half the school

year), because they couldn't decide what to do. It finally ended up

in his current 504 plan. Anyway, his assistant principal talked to me

in private, told me she needed to get more of " this " happening on the

school side, and asked me to stop doing all this stuff for awhile so

she could see what the teachers were actually doing. I think she came

to understand a lot, but unfortunately, the teachers never understood,

and the other assistant principal, who is the 504 coordinator, isn't

interested in doing any more, as far as I can see. I think, as far as

the teachers go, they simply don't understand Asperger at all and

think my son has control over things he doesn't. I think the 504

coordinator thinks we should take it in baby-steps and try the

suggested accommodations little by little, not supporting him any more

than necessary. He's worried about him becoming dependent when he

doesn't need to be. Again, this comes back to not understanding

Asperger and not knowing what he's looking at. Our children's

hospital, where I took him last summer, made up a very detailed IEP

plan for my son. The school has actually put most of the things that

fall under 504 territory in his 504 Plan, but the teachers don't have

much understanding of what they really mean and what it should look

like. So, part of this is going to be me, and hopefully our speech

therapist, if I can ever find a good one this summer, doing lots of

educating next school year.

Thanks again for all the support!

Ruth

[Guest guest]

A diagnosis alone will not qualify a student for an IEP. It should be based on NEED and the impact of those needs on academic, social and emotional functioning in the school environment. Pam :)Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

[Guest guest]

I'm in CA and I was told that E. might not qualify for and IEP. I was

asking for Speech/OT at school, but they said we have to have the

school psych do the testing first to see if he qualifies for an IEP to

get OT. We agreed to wait until August/Sept for the testing since

this was during the last two weeks of school. And as I mentioned

before, he got the speech assessment and " passed " .

I also thought that just a Dx qualified these kids for the services.

He did great in Kindergarten and didn't make trouble, but the teacher

did notice his inattention & slow speed on written & art work. We

decided to pursue OT on our own this summer.

> >

> > Ruth,

> > I would request everything needed in writing .

>

> I wish it were all this simple. Unfortunately, we've already been

> through all this. We've been turned down for an IEP twice now.

> Things get a lot more complicated when your child has a high IQ and

> doesn't come anywhere close to " flunking " , even if they are

> considerably below their own potential. It is a mixed blessing when

> you have a child whose academic ability is several grades above their

> natural age when they have learning disabilities too. And, to be

> honest, I'm not sure it would do any good to get awarded services when

> there is nobody in the school who has a clue how to work with gifted

> kids with learning disabilities. Yes, they " have " to do it, but how

> long would it take them to figure it out? By about the time he

> graduates from high school? Like I said, I've been through all

> the advocating, and still do that, out of necessity of getting through

> everyday school, but I think my time is better spent finding him my

> own qualified professionals. If the school actually comes around

> sometime before he graduates, great! Like I said, I don't stop

> working on it, but my perspective on getting school services has

changed.

>

> Ruth

>

[Guest guest]

Well it sure helped my son...who also has learning difficulities....as most AS kids do.

Jan

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide,

Student, Believer, and Giver.

From: ppanda65@... <ppanda65@...>Subject: Re: ( ) Re: off topic question - Ruth Date: Saturday, July 5, 2008, 5:57 PM

A diagnosis alone will not qualify a student for an IEP. It should be based on NEED and the impact of those needs on academic, social and emotional functioning in the school environment. Pam

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

[Guest guest]

Yes, my son was tested too! He qualified without a doubt...he was first dx ADHD and the 3rd grade teacher was so happy when I brought it up. He needed help in language arts and reading....

And, ever since then he has had an IEP with all kinds of support thru the Provider 50 program offered by the State of PA.

Jan

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide,

Student, Believer, and Giver.

From: kellypywtorak <kellypywtorak@...>Subject: ( ) Re: off topic question - Ruth Date: Saturday, July 5, 2008, 3:47 PM

I'm in CA and I was told that E. might not qualify for and IEP. I wasasking for Speech/OT at school, but they said we have to have theschool psych do the testing first to see if he qualifies for an IEP toget OT. We agreed to wait until August/Sept for the testing sincethis was during the last two weeks of school. And as I mentionedbefore, he got the speech assessment and "passed".I also thought that just a Dx qualified these kids for the services. He did great in Kindergarten and didn't make trouble, but the teacherdid notice his inattention & slow speed on written & art work. Wedecided to pursue OT on our own this summer.> >> > Ruth,> > I would request everything needed in writing .> > I wish it were all this simple. Unfortunately, we've already been> through all this. We've been turned down for an IEP twice now. > Things get a lot more complicated when your child has a high IQ and> doesn't come anywhere close to "flunking", even if they are> considerably below their own potential. It is a mixed blessing when> you have a child whose academic ability is several grades above their> natural age when they have learning disabilities too. And, to be> honest, I'm not sure it would do any good to get awarded services when> there is nobody in the school who has a clue how to work with gifted> kids with learning disabilities. Yes, they "have" to do it, but how> long would it take them to figure it out? By about the time

he> graduates from high school? Like I said, I've been through all> the advocating, and still do that, out of necessity of getting through> everyday school, but I think my time is better spent finding him my> own qualified professionals. If the school actually comes around> sometime before he graduates, great! Like I said, I don't stop> working on it, but my perspective on getting school services haschanged.> > Ruth>

[Guest guest]

Jan, my son also benefits from an IEP, he is progressing from it. I also thought if you have a dx you will get an IEP, but I was shocked when I found out that there is another boy - a few grades higher than my son and he doesn't have an IEP. because he doesn't need it at all. he is able to go to all his classes, keep up with his classes, pass, and do well in school. But he does have a social skills class. that's when I found out about how different each child is on the spectrum and that's what spectrum means. You have the classic autism, HFA, aspergers, PDD-NOS, etc.. (not in that order) - but each child is so different and what will work so well for one child wouldn't work at all for another. I guess that's why this is so confusing. Now with Ruth, that school is just giving her a hard time !. She needs to document everything and document everything that she is requesting and let the school put it

back in writing to her why they aren't providing her son with services that he needs. Roserushen janice <jrushen@...> wrote: Well it sure helped my son...who also has learning difficulities....as most AS kids do. Jan Janice Rushen Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant, Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt, Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide, Student, Believer, and Giver. From: ppanda65aol <ppanda65aol>Subject: Re: ( ) Re: off topic question - Ruth Date: Saturday, July 5, 2008, 5:57 PM A diagnosis alone will not qualify a student for an IEP. It should be based on NEED and the impact of those needs on academic, social and emotional functioning in the school environment. Pam Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

[Guest guest]

My son doesn't have any learning difficulties. He doesn't write very well, but the learning side of things has always been his strong suit. It's the social problems, which can end up interfering with his learning and probably even more so, the learning of other children in the room, that has "qualified" him for services over the years. Dylan is strong in all subjects, A's and B's, which just goes to show me how smart he is b/c teachers say he will talk and talk and talk and ask questions off topic but when he takes a test or has to apply what he has learned, he does great. Now, when he does make a bad grade, it's usually because he didn't take his time to read the instructions carefully. But I know this effects all types of kids, not just those with Aspergers.

Re: ( ) Re: off topic question - Ruth Date: Saturday, July 5, 2008, 5:57 PM

A diagnosis alone will not qualify a student for an IEP. It should be based on NEED and the impact of those needs on academic, social and emotional functioning in the school environment. Pam

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

[Guest guest]

> but even though your son needs social skills and his team states

it doesn't interfere with his school work. it does interfere with is

every day life and so does life skills.

Rose, you really are preaching to the choir here. I have been through

all this, and I'm not going to repeat myself anymore. It truly is

a whole different ballgame when your child is intellectually gifted

with LDs. Very few people are familiar with the issues, including

advocates/attorneys and specialists. And it also truly is different

in different states. Just because the base federal laws are the same

doesn't mean the precedents in states are the same; also, states " add "

things. Gifted children probably fall through the cracks as much as

any group of children in our nation.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

Rose you are 100% correct. I am just learning all about AS...as my son was dx ADHD in 3rd grade and then at the beginning of 6th it was changed to PDD NOS and in December they finally said the dx was AS. As far as I am concerned ...I really don't care what they call it ....just as long as he gets the assitance/services he needs so that when he graduates he can go to college or tech school or whatever he chooses and then be able to contribute and function in this world ..to be able to hold a job in the field he chooses and to be Happy, Content and participate in society. I don't want my son to change to conform...I tell him "different" is good! God made us exactly the way he wanted us to be and he has a plan for each and every one of us. And, i tell him, if we were all a like and all thought the same way...what a BORING planet

this would be. It is good to look at things differently and maybe the world should learn from our kids.

My son adds differently than I do...but who cares! He gets the answer correctly ..isn't that what matters the most! And, when I look back at his aspie moments...I get a good laugh...so literal. And, I have learned to look at things differently too!

I work in the district my son goes to school in. But even that didn't give me an edge. At one point I had to bring in two REAlly GREAT advocates. It does work...and it does work to know the laws and regulation. What has REALLY REALLY helped me is the information and websites recommended. I would never have known about sensory integration dysfuntion (he has it), motor skill difficulties (he has it), social skill difficulties (he has it), Anxiety (Big time he has it), and a bunch more...slow in processing, executive dysfunction, ANGER (no wonder he has it). But each day as I read more and more...I can advocate or bring these issues up at IEP meetings. I found this great article about sensory issues and how it affects learning....I emailed it to all IEP team members ...and boy did that open their eyes. I am lucky now that I work in the district and we now have a WOnderful Supportive Special Educ. Supervisor and

the Assistant Superintendent of Sp.Ed. is the more supportive, educated, caring person ....so I thank God every night.

I do understand that our children are all different, the range is so vast...I don't even know where my son stand in the range...he is not super smart but by far he is no dummy...he is smart in his own way....sometimes too smart (ha ha)....but in time...I believe...as he matures ....he will become his own.....and that is what I tell him...be proud of who you are and you are smart...very smart....(kids all tease him becuase he can't spell). I tell him if he wants to be the President of the USA he can because...if he was President of the USA....he would have hire all kinds of "smart" aides to assist in all the fields necessary. I tell him ..it your Wonderful, Loving, Caring personality that will get you places. Would you believe his Case Manager says...he would make a GREAT SALESPERSon because he is such a social people person! Now isn't that a laugh and they say he has no social skills.LOL!!!!

We just need to keep on plugging along and learn from each other. And, if you need it....get a GOOD advocate...works miracles. Or, come move by me...heheheheheh

Jan

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide,

Student, Believer, and Giver.

From: ppanda65aol (DOT) com <ppanda65aol (DOT) com>Subject: Re: ( ) Re: off topic question - Ruth Date: Saturday, July 5, 2008, 5:57 PM

A diagnosis alone will not qualify a student for an IEP. It should be based on NEED and the impact of those needs on academic, social and emotional functioning in the school environment. Pam

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

[Guest guest]

Sorry Ruth !. I just hate to see a child lose out because of our school system. I was in your situation but couldn't afford the attorneys to fight them. I had an excellent advocate, but the school ignored everything. It was very stressful for me so I had to move which was very hard for the 3 of us on just my income alone. I hope things look better for you in September Roser_woman2 <me2ruth@...> wrote: > but even though your son needs social skills and his team statesit doesn't interfere with his school work. it does interfere with isevery day life and so does life skills. Rose, you really are preaching to the choir here. I have been throughall this, and I'm not going to repeat myself anymore. It truly isa whole different ballgame when your child is intellectually giftedwith LDs. Very few people are familiar with the issues, includingadvocates/attorneys and specialists. And it also truly is differentin different states. Just because the base federal laws are the samedoesn't mean the precedents in states are the same; also, states "add"things. Gifted children probably fall through the cracks as much asany group of children in our nation.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

What an incredible teacher!!!!!!!! Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!

More and more teachers need to see that KNOWING isn't always being able to write it down.

Robin

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth (DOT) com>Subject: ( ) Re: off topic question - Ruth Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 9:31 AM

>> Ruth,> My son also has very strong vocabulary. He just can't express hisfeelings or ask for something his needs. or explain a certainsituation. This is my son also. Rose, part of this is autism, i.e., the theoryof mind issues. You might want to look that up too. Theory of mindis being aware of other people's thoughts and being able to anticipatethem and how they play out. We typical people do lots of mind-readingwithout thinking that autistic people can't do. Part of the reasonyour son doesn't ask for things is because he isn't aware that youdon't already know he needs them. He may not be aware that otherpeople know things he doesn't, so he doesn't think to ask for help. And there are the sensory issues, like my

son not being able to tellthe difference between a tummyache and being hungry until he was inlate elementary.> the speech teacher is working with my son with his writing skillsand he's not good with spelling. it took him a long time to get thehang of writing a paragraph. he couldn't even write a sentence with acomplete thought. See, my son doesn't have this problem, in general. He is even atalented writer. But his stories are all physical action and dialog.He has an incredible time with assignments where he has to express anopinion or get into more abstract, generalizing thoughts. He can't doit on his own, and sometimes he just can't get what they are asking.And part of this is executive dysfunction. Another thing for you tolook up! Poor working memory and slow processing speed, my son hasboth, cause a person to have difficulty processing, organizing, andspitting back out their

thoughts.There's really a lot of neurological stuff going on behind the poorsocial skills in Asperger.Ruth

[Guest guest]

,We're in California, too, and initially we were told that s speech/language was just fine. We asked for an IEE (Independent External Evaluation?) and that examiner found his pragmatics very weak and in need of support. The school system's OT also found him okay in terms of OT. Our external OT found him in need of services. Our lawyer helped the district find a great program in the district that is very hard to get a place in, and really met his needs in elementary school and middle school. But this was at a time when taking schools to court was a lot easier, I think. But it still might be worth asking for an IEE. It is your right, and the school district has to pay for it.LizOn Jul 5, 2008, at 3:47 PM, kellypywtorak wrote:I'm in CA and I was told that E. might not qualify for and IEP. I wasasking for Speech/OT at school, but they said we have to have theschool psych do the testing first to see if he qualifies for an IEP toget OT. We agreed to wait until August/Sept for the testing sincethis was during the last two weeks of school. And as I mentionedbefore, he got the speech assessment and "passed".I also thought that just a Dx qualified these kids for the services. He did great in Kindergarten and didn't make trouble, but the teacherdid notice his inattention & slow speed on written & art work. Wedecided to pursue OT on our own this summer.

[Guest guest]

Yeah she is...she has an autistic child! She never told me that till I met her with her son at the special needs baseball team .....wow!

But, on the down side....she never mentioned to me that DAvid might need more testing....she probably knew it...she was the one who said at the IEP meeting that he lacked Social Skills (a big thing for Aspies).

But, I have suggested several times that can't get it down on paper and used that as an example...it helped!

Jan

Janice Rushen

Mom, Mentor, Wife, Teacher, Advocate, Accountant,

Maid, Taxi, Shopper, Bulletin Board Artist

Nanny, Crafter, Therapist, Friend, Sister, Aunt,

Daughter, Grand-daughter, Personal Care Aide,

Student, Believer, and Giver.

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth (DOT) com>Subject: ( ) Re: off topic question - Ruth Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 9:31 AM

>> Ruth,> My son also has very strong vocabulary. He just can't express hisfeelings or ask for something his needs. or explain a certainsituation. This is my son also. Rose, part of this is autism, i.e., the theoryof mind issues. You might want to look that up too. Theory of mindis being aware of other people's thoughts and being able to anticipatethem and how they play out. We typical people do lots of mind-readingwithout thinking that autistic people can't do. Part of the reasonyour son doesn't ask for things is because he isn't aware that youdon't already know he needs them. He may not be aware that otherpeople know things he doesn't, so he doesn't think to ask for help. And there are the sensory issues, like my

son not being able to tellthe difference between a tummyache and being hungry until he was inlate elementary.> the speech teacher is working with my son with his writing skillsand he's not good with spelling. it took him a long time to get thehang of writing a paragraph. he couldn't even write a sentence with acomplete thought. See, my son doesn't have this problem, in general. He is even atalented writer. But his stories are all physical action and dialog.He has an incredible time with assignments where he has to express anopinion or get into more abstract, generalizing thoughts. He can't doit on his own, and sometimes he just can't get what they are asking.And part of this is executive dysfunction. Another thing for you tolook up! Poor working memory and slow processing speed, my son hasboth, cause a person to have difficulty processing, organizing, andspitting back out their

thoughts.There's really a lot of neurological stuff going on behind the poorsocial skills in Asperger.Ruth

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Remember, having a disability does not entitle one to an IEP. You have to have a disability and because of that disability, need special education services. I can see where a lot of AS kids would have trouble qualifying for an IEP, especially if they are doing well academically. It depends on how many people knocked the doors down ahead of you as to how hard it will be. Also, it depends on the administration and their outlook towards sped needs.

RoxannaAutism Happens

Re: ( ) Re: off topic question - Ruth

I have a question...what state do you live in? I can not believe your child was turned down for an IEP. We live in PA and there was absolutely NO PROBLEM at all! They did at one point want to put in inclusion classes for language arts...and actually did so illegally...but that happened when I was not educated to the law. Anyways, now I have absolutely no problem at all. But I just can't believe that a child with a dx of AS can't get an IEP! Wow!

Jan

P.S. That is WRONG! Did you write to the stae dept. of education?

Janice Rushen

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>> Ruth,> I would request everything needed in writing .I wish it were all this simple. Unfortunately, we've already beenthrough all this. We've been turned down for an IEP twice now. Things get a lot more complicated when your child has a high IQ anddoesn't come anywhere close to "flunking", even if they areconsiderably below their own potential. It is a mixed blessing whenyou have a child whose academic ability is several grades above theirnatural age when they have learning disabilities too. And, to behonest, I'm not sure it would do any good to get awarded services whenthere is nobody in the school who has a clue how to work with giftedkids with learning disabilities. Yes, they "have" to do it, but howlong would it take them to figure it out? By about the time hegraduates from high school? Like I said, I've been through allthe advocating, and still do that, out of necessity of getting througheveryday school, but I think my time is better spent finding him myown qualified professionals. If the school actually comes aroundsometime before he graduates, great! Like I said, I don't stopworking on it, but my perspective on getting school services has changed.Ruth

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Part of the educational evaluation should include ST and OT. So he should get an OT evaluation done and then if he needs OT, he would receive it. He does not "have to have an IEP" in order to get OT services. If he qualifies as needing OT, then he should receive OT.

RoxannaAutism Happens

( ) Re: off topic question - Ruth

I'm in CA and I was told that E. might not qualify for and IEP. I wasasking for Speech/OT at school, but they said we have to have theschool psych do the testing first to see if he qualifies for an IEP toget OT. We agreed to wait until August/Sept for the testing sincethis was during the last two weeks of school. And as I mentionedbefore, he got the speech assessment and "passed".I also thought that just a Dx qualified these kids for the services. He did great in Kindergarten and didn't make trouble, but the teacherdid notice his inattention & slow speed on written & art work. Wedecided to pursue OT on our own this summer.> >> > Ruth,> > I would request everything needed in writing .> > I wish it were all this simple. Unfortunately, we've already been> through all this. We've been turned down for an IEP twice now. > Things get a lot more complicated when your child has a high IQ and> doesn't come anywhere close to "flunking", even if they are> considerably below their own potential. It is a mixed blessing when> you have a child whose academic ability is several grades above their> natural age when they have learning disabilities too. And, to be> honest, I'm not sure it would do any good to get awarded services when> there is nobody in the school who has a clue how to work with gifted> kids with learning disabilities. Yes, they "have" to do it, but how> long would it take them to figure it out? By about the time he> graduates from high school? Like I said, I've been through all> the advocating, and still do that, out of necessity of getting through> everyday school, but I think my time is better spent finding him my> own qualified professionals. If the school actually comes around> sometime before he graduates, great! Like I said, I don't stop> working on it, but my perspective on getting school services haschanged.> > Ruth>No virus found in this incoming message.

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Great answer Liz. An IEE is called "Independent Educational Evaluation" for anyone who wants to google it.

RoxannaAutism Happens

Re: ( ) Re: off topic question - Ruth

,

We're in California, too, and initially we were told that s speech/language was just fine. We asked for an IEE (Independent External Evaluation?) and that examiner found his pragmatics very weak and in need of support. The school system's OT also found him okay in terms of OT. Our external OT found him in need of services. Our lawyer helped the district find a great program in the district that is very hard to get a place in, and really met his needs in elementary school and middle school. But this was at a time when taking schools to court was a lot easier, I think. But it still might be worth asking for an IEE. It is your right, and the school district has to pay for it.

Liz

On Jul 5, 2008, at 3:47 PM, kellypywtorak wrote:

I'm in CA and I was told that E. might not qualify for and IEP. I wasasking for Speech/OT at school, but they said we have to have theschool psych do the testing first to see if he qualifies for an IEP toget OT. We agreed to wait until August/Sept for the testing sincethis was during the last two weeks of school. And as I mentionedbefore, he got the speech assessment and "passed".I also thought that just a Dx qualified these kids for the services. He did great in Kindergarten and didn't make trouble, but the teacherdid notice his inattention & slow speed on written & art work. Wedecided to pursue OT on our own this summer.

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Ahhhhh, the sad tale of the 2E kids. lol. I have one of those! My school even has a gifted program in place plus my ds has always had an IEP. So you would think (1+1=2) that since we have everything here, he would be in school and doing well. But it's so true what you say about so few people out there knowing or understanding the needs of a 2E student. After several meetings with an openly hostile director of gifted services, I decided to pull him out. I was so dang tired of always being the first one through the door. Others just pulled their kids and took them to private schools, which we can't afford to do.

Anyway, if I didn't share these two links yet, you might want to save them, read them, pass them along to your school or something.

Here is the Lillie/Felton letter ---> http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/elig.sld.osep.felton.htm

Here is something from my own state DOE about 2E kids --> http://tinyurl.com/5ssggl Go here and then click on "Twice exceptional guide."

RoxannaAutism Happens

( ) Re: off topic question - Ruth

> but even though your son needs social skills and his team statesit doesn't interfere with his school work. it does interfere with isevery day life and so does life skills. Rose, you really are preaching to the choir here. I have been throughall this, and I'm not going to repeat myself anymore. It truly isa whole different ballgame when your child is intellectually giftedwith LDs. Very few people are familiar with the issues, includingadvocates/attorneys and specialists. And it also truly is differentin different states. Just because the base federal laws are the samedoesn't mean the precedents in states are the same; also, states "add"things. Gifted children probably fall through the cracks as much asany group of children in our nation. RuthNo virus found in this incoming message.

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>

> Remember, having a disability does not entitle one to an IEP. You

have to have a disability and because of that disability, need special

education services. I can see where a lot of AS kids would have

trouble qualifying for an IEP, especially if they are doing well

academically. It depends on how many people knocked the doors down

ahead of you as to how hard it will be. Also, it depends on the

administration and their outlook towards sped needs.

This is all very true. Although people also have to remember that a

child with a 504 plan is also legally considered disabled. I have

been surprised at the level of assistance my son can get in a 504

plan--in writing. The problem is, when there is no special ed dept

involved to resolve things the general ed staff are unfamiliar with,

your child's needs don't get met. The 504 plan ends up being in

writing only, and not because the teachers aren't trying or don't

care. You go round and round in circles because people just don't

have the training and aren't the self-teaching type.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

>

> Part of the educational evaluation should include ST and OT. So he

should get an OT evaluation done and then if he needs OT, he would

receive it. He does not " have to have an IEP " in order to get OT

services. If he qualifies as needing OT, then he should receive OT.

Not in our state (Texas). Motor skill delays/coordination problems

are not even an official disability category. They are specifically

excluded. You only get them under the umbrella of " all the child's

needs must be met " if you get an IEP. I don't think there is much OT

going on in the schools in our state. Luckily most health insurances

and medicaid have at least some coverage. I know about this because

developmental coordination disorder is one of my son's multiple dx.

Ruth