Re: He's losing his services

[Guest guest]

Hi Missy,

Whether the school decides he is HFA or not will not end his services, necessarily. Let's sort it out! What papers were waiting for you at home exactly? What did the papers say? Does he have an IEP now or were you trying to get one?

It's hard to know what to tell you when I don't know what papers, what tests you are talking about. The school may have done a multi-factored eval and decided he is not eligible for services? Did they give you a meeting to go over the results of these tests? If he is losing his OT, did they do an OT evaluation showing he no longer needs this service? So many questions! Write back!

Hang in there. It is not all lost. You do have some options to disagree with this.

As for great reviews at school, I am surprised from the problems he is having at home that he isn't having problems at school. I do know that my kids held some of it together at school but it eventually popped out. They can only hold so much in! But I wouldn't wait for him to explode before figuring out what is going on here and trying to get him help.

PS: I doubt you are a bad parent, especially because you have other kids to kind of "prove" you are not inept at this, lol. I know that feeling and you just have to hang on to the fact that you are not terrible at parenting! Look at your other kids if you have doubts. And then figure out how to get Brayden some help!

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

( ) He's losing his services

I know that I don't post here alot, but I do read every day....and this group provides so many resourceful ideas. I got home from work today, to find the IEP and the testing results for Brayden. I don't know where to begin. We went through so much to get a diagnosis for him, yet the school has determined that it is unlikly that Brayden is HFA. How can that be possible? He is losing his OT, as well as any other services that were being provided to him. How can my child be one person at school, and completely another child at home? Am I supposed to be happy about this....because all I am now is confused? Is he really HFA...or does he just have behavioral problems only at home. He has gotten rave reviews at school, and it seems like he is holding it in, and then when he gets home he is his true self. Can this even happen? Or, are they right? We have a diagnosis from the Minnesota Autism Society....how could they be wrong. It makes me go back to that feeling that I'm just a bad parent. But, if I am a bad parent, how can I have two other children that are so different than him in regards to behaviors and actions? Never has my oldest scrunched up into a ball in the morning and made noises...never has my oldest done somersaults for what seems like hours to help calm himself. Never has my oldest made "ah ah ah ah" noises for an hour just because.....or gotten louder just to block out the other noises around him. He climbs on my head, he plays with cars, and builds with legos for hours. What am I doing wrong here. What am I supposed to do...what am I supposed to think? I am so confused.

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[Guest guest]

It was his school year review to update and modify his IEP. I will

list the tests and evaluations as soon as I get more time.

[Guest guest]

Missy, if you disagree with their testing results, you can request an

independent evaluation at their expense, especially if he will be

losing services you really feel he needs. You mentioned Minnesota,

so I looked up some MN info:

" An independent educational evaluation (IEE) is an evaluation by a

qualified person(s) who is not an employee of your district. You may

ask for an IEE at school district expense if you disagree with the

district's evaluation. A hearing officer may also order an

independent evaluation of your child at school district expense

during a due process hearing. "

Above is from the Procedural Safeguard Notice. The link is a bit

long (I don't know how to shrink them!) but got it at this webpage:

http://education.state.mn.us/MDE/Accountability_Programs/Compliance_an

d_Assistance/Special_Education_Complaints/index.html

Now - if he is doing great at school without any supports, then they

may feel he doesn't need an IEP any longer. If he is doing great

*because of the supports he is now getting*, then will he do worse

without them, regress...? Has he accomplished so much with OT that

they don't feel he needs it any longer? --- Try to now sort of get

in mind how to justify/argue that he still needs some of the services

and/or supports he is getting.

You're not a bad parent. I have 3 sons, all different as night/day.

Even me and my sister and brother are different in personality, etc.

You know how that goes. One son is quick to temper, emotional like

me; another is sort of mid-range I guess, as my AS/OCD son grew up

with no temper at all, best behaved, nicest child I raised. And I'm

the same mom, like you said.

Many kids, varying diagnoses, tend to do good at school and then " let

it out " at home. Or maybe just " manage " at school by holding back,

etc., all day. Couple of mine did.

For some children who need a lot of routine, structure, they may get

that at school during those hours and then be at a loss at home when

they get there and there's " free time " , whatever. Might need a good

routine/structure for when they arrive home? Just a thought if your

child benefits from having that.

You just stick with your gut feeling on what you feel/know about your

son, don't let that school confuse you. Middle school didn't feel my

Aspie (as yet undiagnosed) showed any signs either per the tests,

etc., they used. But honestly they had no clue, hadn't had (they

said) an autistic student before. And then they sent in

their " autism specialist " who works with the students and has a class

for the younger ones, plus her stepson was autistic. She saw no sign

either she said. Well -- my son is quiet, loves learning, did like

to ask questions in class, never a behavior problem.... All she did

was watch from afar that day, never talked directly with him.

At any rate, I know you'll get lots of responses from this group, and

lots of good suggestions. Do keep us updated!

>

> I know that I don't post here alot, but I do read every day....and

> this group provides so many resourceful ideas.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks -

I am going to re-read through the entire report again, and will be

making a list of questions that I have for them. The meeting is on

Monday morning at 7:30...so I want to be as ready as I can be. His

classroom IS very structured, we specifically put him with that teacher

because it's the same every day. In the mornings, we have the same

routine at home every day...and he is usually pretty good, because he

KNOWS what to expect. I am 99% sure that he " manages " his behavior at

school. He hates being pointed out....they say that he has " lots " of

friends, and while I am sure that is true, what is the nature of their

play? From far away, it looks like they are playing, but I am SURE

that Brayden is controlling it from his perspective, and the other kids

go along. I see it at home with the other kids in the neighborhood.

It's always about what Brayden wants to play, and he is always the one

controlling the one-sided conversation.

Okay - enough there....I will get back to you tomorrow with the actual

tests that they did.

[Guest guest]

Update - I finally have time! Our youngest (she is 2) is sick with

the flu or some bug .

Differential Ability Scales - Second Edition

The Woodcock- Tests of Achievement - Third Edition

Photo Articulation Test - 3

Sensory Profile

Sensory Profile School Companion

VMI - Development Test of Visual Motor Integration and Visual

Perception

Handwriting Samples

Clinical Observations

Behavioral and Emotional Responses

The social Skills Rating System

Gillian Autism Rating Scale - 2nd Edition

They also did a structured interview with him

From the autism test 0

Index Rank Of Autism

Mother 87 19th very likely

Father 91 21st very likely

M. 57 <1st Unlikely (k teacher)

E Kirchner 51 <1st Unlikely (autism teacher)

P Blaha 53 <1st Unlikely (teachers aid)

In an evaluation conducted by the Autism Society of Minnesota in

April of 2008, Dr Barbara in interviewed Brayden't mother and

concluded that Mrs. Filas felt that Brayden's early childhood classes

had been very helpful for Brayden but that his mother states that

Brayden would often struggle in social situations. He could be

controlling, didn't read facial emotions or body language, talks

constantly, but not reciprocal in nature. She also indicated Brayden

is easily frustrated when he can't express himself which can lead to

aggressive behaviors. She also noted that he is a perfectionist and

would struggle with transitions. Brayden was also described as

sensitive to light sound and tactile input, with trouble with sleep

onset. Mrs Filas was administered the Vineland Scales of Adaptive

Behavior in which resulted in the following scores: Communication 67

SS 1st%, Daily Living Skills 79SS 8th%, Socialization 66SS 1st%,

These scores indicate that adaptively Brayden is functioning below

average in all areas. The diagnosis resulting from this evaluation

is that Brayden meets the criteria in the DSM-IV for autism.

I don't know if that helps with my concerns that I had talked about

on Friday. Insight? Should I have him tested again at the Fraizer

Center?

[Guest guest]

Looks like he had a full educational evaluation (What we call an MFE here.) What I would suggest you might do is go over all the test results carefully. It is important to look at subtest scores because many times these kids can be high in one subtest, low in another but have that average out. So he could get an "average" score but it would mask a problem. Ask for and look over the subtest scores.

Go over each evaluation and determine if you feel the results are accurate. I mean, if he can't read but he scores high in reading on eval's, then you have to figure out what's going on. So you can go over the results and see if they accurately reflect his abilities. If you disagree with the results of the testing, you can request an outside evaluation at the school's expense.

2 things come to my mind. First, if at all possible, observe him yourself at school a few times in different kinds of classes and recess, etc. You will learn a lot. You will find out if he's really doing well at school after all or perhaps he is struggling in ways they are not paying attention to?

Also, I would consider his age and grade as well. The problem sometimes is - how far behind can a 1st grader really be? KWIM? So if his scores are low but not "too low", you can argue that he's so young that it would be difficult for him to score much lower.

It's always nice if you can get your own eval done. So if you have insurance or can afford it, do so. It can help you figure out if he needs help or not and you will know what to ask for. As I said, you can also disagree with the results and ask for an IEE at their expense.

I can say that sometimes the problems these kids have are not the kinds of things that show up easily on tests. I remember a few years ago, when my ds was in 2nd grade he had his MFE done and I had requested that he get a pragmatic language eval done. Well, he scored really high on it - like scoring at age 16 or something like that. lol. But the ST who had worked with him since he was younger and couldn't even talk, knew that he was just parroting the answers but could not produce in real life situations. It is nice if you have people to work with who can help you sort these things out and who really know your kid. My ds still gets ST and many goals are social skill/pragmatic language goals. But he can pass those kinds of tests. Often, it's more important to have therapists view him in real life situations to take data that accurately reflects what he can do vs. what he says. I hope that makes some sense. I don't think I said it that well.

Anyway, if they want to cut off his services, make sure they have evaluated him in the areas that they want to stop services for and that he is doing well enough. If not, as I said, you can request an IEE and disagree with their testing results.

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

( ) Re: He's losing his services

Update - I finally have time! Our youngest (she is 2) is sick with the flu or some bug . Differential Ability Scales - Second EditionThe Woodcock- Tests of Achievement - Third EditionPhoto Articulation Test - 3Sensory Profilory Profile School CompanionVMI - Development Test of Visual Motor Integration and Visual PerceptionHandwriting SamplesClinical ObservationsBehavioral and Emotional ResponsesThe social Skills Rating SystemGillian Autism Rating Scale - 2nd EditionThey also did a structured interview with himFrom the autism test 0 Index Rank Of AutismMother 87 19th very likelyFather 91 21st very likelyM. 57 <1st Unlikely (k teacher)E Kirchner 51 <1st Unlikely (autism teacher)P Blaha 53 <1st Unlikely (teachers aid)In an evaluation conducted by the Autism Society of Minnesota in April of 2008, Dr Barbara in interviewed Brayden't mother and concluded that Mrs. Filas felt that Brayden's early childhood classes had been very helpful for Brayden but that his mother states that Brayden would often struggle in social situations. He could be controlling, didn't read facial emotions or body language, talks constantly, but not reciprocal in nature. She also indicated Brayden is easily frustrated when he can't express himself which can lead to aggressive behaviors. She also noted that he is a perfectionist and would struggle with transitions. Brayden was also described as sensitive to light sound and tactile input, with trouble with sleep onset. Mrs Filas was administered the Vineland Scales of Adaptive Behavior in which resulted in the following scores: Communication 67SS 1st%, Daily Living Skills 79SS 8th%, Socialization 66SS 1st%, These scores indicate that adaptively Brayden is functioning below average in all areas. The diagnosis resulting from this evaluation is that Brayden meets the criteria in the DSM-IV for autism. I don't know if that helps with my concerns that I had talked about on Friday. Insight? Should I have him tested again at the Fraizer Center?

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[Guest guest]

Hi Missy. I have a 14yo with Asperger. Some thoughts... The list of

tests they did looks long and comprehensive, but a lot of those tests

are really just fairly quick screening type tests. There is a

difference between the medical testing you would get from going to the

other place and the educational testing you will get from the school

district. The medical testing will give you more detail. Some

obvious things missing from your school's testing: pragmatic language

(speech pathology) and executive functioning. Also, I would ask the

" autism teacher's " credentials. Find out how much experience she has

working with higher functioning autistics with IQs as high as your

child's. Many special ed teachers who have only worked with kids with

IQs below 100 really don't know how to work with kids at higher

levels--kind of like someone with only experience/training teaching

early childhood being given a high school class, you know?

Also, does your child's IEP team include an autism specialist?

According to IDEA, your child's team must include someone with the

training and experience to comprehend the test results. This does not

mean simply having the results from the autism center, and it does not

mean a special ed teacher who has been assigned to teach autistic kids.

I think it will make it less confusing, like Roxanne said, if you

break this down and " figure it out " . Your first steps are probably to

make sure the IEP team has the appropriate members and that the

testing being done is appropriate and complete. There is nothing

wrong with supplementing the school's testing with your own--just make

sure they are okay with your providers (consider them to be

qualified). Your testing does not have to be done at the same time as

the school's since IEPs can be revisited at any time--but obviously

timing is an issue if your testing is needed for necessary detail that

will make them see your child's needs. What I'm saying is that you

may have to wait until you get your own testing done to get what you

want out of the school; this is what has happened to us. It has been

an ongoing thing.

Remember all these people have bosses. If they are really doing

something wrong, discuss it with their boss, so it can get resolved

permanently. The boss should discuss it with them and help them come

to a place more satisfactory to everyone. This is a really key thing

that I discovered. Don't waste time endlessly talking with someone

who isn't hearing you.

I'm ranting because I'm having a row with my school right now--sorry!

Hope this is helpful.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

What's up with the school, Ruth?

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

( ) Re: He's losing his services

Hi Missy. I have a 14yo with Asperger. Some thoughts... The list oftests they did looks long and comprehensive, but a lot of those testsare really just fairly quick screening type tests. There is adifference between the medical testing you would get from going to theother place and the educational testing you will get from the schooldistrict. The medical testing will give you more detail. Someobvious things missing from your school's testing: pragmatic language(speech pathology) and executive functioning. Also, I would ask the"autism teacher's" credentials. Find out how much experience she hasworking with higher functioning autistics with IQs as high as yourchild's. Many special ed teachers who have only worked with kids withIQs below 100 really don't know how to work with kids at higherlevels--kind of like someone with only experience/training teachingearly childhood being given a high school class, you know?Also, does your child's IEP team include an autism specialist? According to IDEA, your child's team must include someone with thetraining and experience to comprehend the test results. This does notmean simply having the results from the autism center, and it does notmean a special ed teacher who has been assigned to teach autistic kids.I think it will make it less confusing, like Roxanne said, if youbreak this down and "figure it out". Your first steps are probably tomake sure the IEP team has the appropriate members and that thetesting being done is appropriate and complete. There is nothingwrong with supplementing the school's testing with your own--just makesure they are okay with your providers (consider them to bequalified). Your testing does not have to be done at the same time asthe school's since IEPs can be revisited at any time--but obviouslytiming is an issue if your testing is needed for necessary detail thatwill make them see your child's needs. What I'm saying is that youmay have to wait until you get your own testing done to get what youwant out of the school; this is what has happened to us. It has beenan ongoing thing.Remember all these people have bosses. If they are really doingsomething wrong, discuss it with their boss, so it can get resolvedpermanently. The boss should discuss it with them and help them cometo a place more satisfactory to everyone. This is a really key thingthat I discovered. Don't waste time endlessly talking with someonewho isn't hearing you.I'm ranting because I'm having a row with my school right now--sorry!Hope this is helpful.Ruth

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[Guest guest]

I had the meeting this morning, and it was quite long. I will be able

to get into it later when I get home tonight, but I was impressed with

what we discussed. It wasn't an " in and out " type of meeting...we were

there for almost 2 hours (principle...teachers...school

psychologist...speech pathologist...Autism program director...and the

OT specialist).

We'll talk more later.

[Guest guest]

I'm so relieved it seemed to go ok. Write later!

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

( ) Re: He's losing his services

I had the meeting this morning, and it was quite long. I will be able to get into it later when I get home tonight, but I was impressed with what we discussed. It wasn't an "in and out" type of meeting...we were there for almost 2 hours (principle...teachers...school psychologist...speech pathologist...Autism program director...and the OT specialist). We'll talk more later.

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[Guest guest]

thank you thank you! They are going to keep him on their radar,

because they think that more is going to come out next year when he

is in class for a full day, and it's more academic. Basically, in

the meeting, they reassured me that he not going to fall through the

cracks. Ellen (the Autism director)....will be checking in on him,

and his teacher will also be paying attention to some specific

concerns that I have with the report. I felt that they were very

proactive. My only issue was that when testing him, they had to

compare him against 1st graders because of his age (we held him back

a year). It was funny, they gave him Math as part of his academic

testing...and he looked at them like they were crazy and said " I

don't know Math!!! " ....same for reading. They stated that he is

definately a visual learner, and he will most likely have learning

disabilities as well.

> >

> > I know that I don't post here alot, but I do read every day....and

> > this group provides so many resourceful ideas.

> >

> > I got home from work today, to find the IEP and the testing

results

> > for Brayden. I don't know where to begin. We went through so

much

> > to get a diagnosis for him, yet the school has determined that it

is

> > unlikly that Brayden is HFA. How can that be possible? He is

losing

> > his OT, as well as any other services that were being provided to

> > him. How can my child be one person at school, and completely

> > another child at home? Am I supposed to be happy about

> > this....because all I am now is confused? Is he really HFA...or

does

> > he just have behavioral problems only at home. He has gotten rave

> > reviews at school, and it seems like he is holding it in, and then

> > when he gets home he is his true self. Can this even happen? Or,

> > are they right? We have a diagnosis from the Minnesota Autism

> > Society....how could they be wrong. It makes me go back to that

> > feeling that I'm just a bad parent. But, if I am a bad parent,

how

> > can I have two other children that are so different than him in

> > regards to behaviors and actions? Never has my oldest scrunched

up

> > into a ball in the morning and made noises...never has my oldest

done

> > somersaults for what seems like hours to help calm himself. Never

> > has my oldest made " ah ah ah ah " noises for an hour just

> > because.....or gotten louder just to block out the other noises

> > around him. He climbs on my head, he plays with cars, and builds

> > with legos for hours. What am I doing wrong here. What am I

> > supposed to do...what am I supposed to think? I am so confused.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

So - what are your thoughts on them testing him as a 1st grader, even

though he is in Kindergarten? They said that they had to test

because of his age (he will be 7 in March)....it never even crossed

my mind...

> >

> > I know that I don't post here alot, but I do read every

day....and

> > this group provides so many resourceful ideas.

> >

> > I got home from work today, to find the IEP and the testing

results

> > for Brayden. I don't know where to begin. We went through so

much

> > to get a diagnosis for him, yet the school has determined that

it is

> > unlikly that Brayden is HFA. How can that be possible? He is

losing

> > his OT, as well as any other services that were being provided

to

> > him. How can my child be one person at school, and completely

> > another child at home? Am I supposed to be happy about

> > this....because all I am now is confused? Is he really HFA...or

does

> > he just have behavioral problems only at home. He has gotten

rave

> > reviews at school, and it seems like he is holding it in, and

then

> > when he gets home he is his true self. Can this even happen?

Or,

> > are they right? We have a diagnosis from the Minnesota Autism

> > Society....how could they be wrong. It makes me go back to that

> > feeling that I'm just a bad parent. But, if I am a bad parent,

how

> > can I have two other children that are so different than him in

> > regards to behaviors and actions? Never has my oldest scrunched

up

> > into a ball in the morning and made noises...never has my

oldest done

> > somersaults for what seems like hours to help calm himself.

Never

> > has my oldest made " ah ah ah ah " noises for an hour just

> > because.....or gotten louder just to block out the other noises

> > around him. He climbs on my head, he plays with cars, and

builds

> > with legos for hours. What am I doing wrong here. What am I

> > supposed to do...what am I supposed to think? I am so confused.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

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>

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.15/1837 - Release Date:

12/8/2008 9:38 AM

>