Re: Opinions please - discussing homework with teachers

[Guest guest]

Hi!

You know the teachers better than I do...but your opening line of Everyone getting fustration with homework, etc. sounded good to me. I didn't think it sounded offensive....and it was written by someone with Asperger's background.

if you don't feel comfortable doing that ...then maybe you could send it the Principle or Asst. Principle....who you feel comfortable with and ask him if he would share it with the teachers. That way...it is coming from him and not you.

Jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth@...>Subject: ( ) Opinions please - discussing homework with teachers Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 6:23 PM

I'd really like to know what you guys think about this. This being mygiving that "Homework, Oh, Homework" article to my son's teachers inan e-mail. It is very apropos at the moment because all of them arenot following the things in his 504 requiring them to either writethings down for him, have him write things down, or give him writtendirections or checklists. I sense a lot of frustration and hostility.It doesn't make sense to them because they don't understand theneurological issues and think he must just be REALLY spoiled and Imust be a really lenient, misguided parent.We have this meeting coming up, but it is only to rubberstamp himbeing referred to an IEP/Autism evaluation, which will of course nothave any results for at least two or three months. I'm wondering whatthe plan is meanwhile since the 504 is not being followed, which Iassume means it doesn't work for the teachers. It certainly

isn'tworking for my son.Do you think it would help or just piss them off more? Should I askthe assist principal who is the 504 team leader what he thinks? Mindyou, he seems to know as little about Autism as the teachers, althoughhe at least seems to have gotten to the point where he's realizing hehas some knowledge gaps. I'm thinking of writing something to the effect of "I sense everyoneis feeling a lot of frustration regarding and homework; I know Iam. The following is an article written by an Autism consultant thatyou might find helpful." And leave it at that. I think they think sopoorly of me that the less I say the better.Ruth

[Guest guest]

>

> if you don't feel comfortable doing that ...then maybe you could

send it the Principle or Asst. Principle....who you feel comfortable

with and ask him if he would share it with the teachers. That way...it

is coming from him and not you.

It's not a matter of being comfortable--I just know I have zero pull

with them. Your idea is a good idea. I don't know if he will

want to do it. He may placate me and not really say much to the

teachers, I suppose. He has stayed really distant from me, so I don't

feel like I know him very well even though we work together re. my

son. I'm not saying that that is what he would do, I just really

don't know. But I like that idea, since I'm sure they would listen

more to him maybe--I don't know what his relationship is with the

teachers either really. Seems okay with some of them anyway. I've

seen him very relaxed, chatting with them at school functions, FWIW.

Thanks for the idea!

Ruth

[Guest guest]

Also...your district must have a Superintendent of Special Education....why not write hiim/her with your concerns that the teachers are not following the 504/IEP....

Does your son have a case manager? My son has one....she works with him and all the teachers and coordinates everything...and then we have the Special Ed. Supervisor. But, when I get totally fustrated ...I email our Asst. Superintendent of Sp.Ed. Then I get results.

jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth@...>Subject: Re: ( ) Opinions please - discussing homework with teachers Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 6:50 PM

>> if you don't feel comfortable doing that ...then maybe you couldsend it the Principle or Asst. Principle... .who you feel comfortablewith and ask him if he would share it with the teachers. That way...itis coming from him and not you.It's not a matter of being comfortable- -I just know I have zero pullwith them. Your idea is a good idea. I don't know if he willwant to do it. He may placate me and not really say much to theteachers, I suppose. He has stayed really distant from me, so I don'tfeel like I know him very well even though we work together re. myson. I'm not saying that that is what he would do, I just reallydon't know. But I like that idea, since I'm sure they would listenmore to him maybe--I don't know

what his relationship is with theteachers either really. Seems okay with some of them anyway. I'veseen him very relaxed, chatting with them at school functions, FWIW.Thanks for the idea!Ruth

[Guest guest]

>

> Does your son have a case manager? My son has one....she works with

him and all the teachers and coordinates everything...and then we have

the Special Ed. Supervisor.� But, when I get totally fustrated ...I

email our Asst. Superintendent of Sp.Ed.� Then I get results.

Yes, thanks for reminding me. I have done that a few times before and

also gotten a lot more results--regarding the SPED director. My son's

504 team leader is an assistant principal who doesn't really get the

issues very well either, unfortunately. 504 doesn't normally deal

with things like autism, so I blame the school district more for this

than him personally. I have to give him credit that he appears to be

trying to learn, although by the time he does, my son will be out of

his school. And, although he didn't make the decision by himself, he

was pretty much the one who did what needed to be done to get my son

finally referred to the Autism Team.

Anyway, you're right; I should probably contact the SPED director I've

talked to a few times before when things got out of hand. She can

figure out a way to discuss it with them in a way that is palatable to

them.

I feel bad going over this assist principal's head, but I know from

experience that if I try to talk to him about it, he'll deny that the

teachers aren't following the 504 Plan. He just can't deal with that.

And how can we discuss what is and isn't working if they won't admit

to what they are doing and what they aren't? KWIM?

Anyway, thanks for helping me out!

Ruth

[Guest guest]

When was the 504 planned last reviewed? I think I'd take that tact while waiting the for special education evaluation to be completed. Does your district do any kind of RTI intervention? Pam

In a message dated 2/18/2009 10:33:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, me2ruth@... writes:

>> Does your son have a case manager? My son has one....she works withhim and all the teachers and coordinates everything...and then we havethe Special Ed. Supervisor.� But, when I get totally fustrated ...Iemail our Asst. Superintendent of Sp.Ed.� Then I get results. Yes, thanks for reminding me. I have done that a few times before andalso gotten a lot more results--regarding the SPED director. My son's504 team leader is an assistant principal who doesn't really get theissues very well either, unfortunately. 504 doesn't normally dealwith things like autism, so I blame the school district more for thisthan him personally. I have to give him credit that he appears to betrying to learn, although by the time he does, my son will be out ofhis school. And, although he didn't make the decision by himself, hewas pretty much the one who did what needed to be done to get my sonfinally referred to the Autism Team. Anyway, you're right; I should probably contact the SPED director I'vetalked to a few times before when things got out of hand. She canfigure out a way to discuss it with them in a way that is palatable tothem.I feel bad going over this assist principal's head, but I know fromexperience that if I try to talk to him about it, he'll deny that theteachers aren't following the 504 Plan. He just can't deal with that.And how can we discuss what is and isn't working if they won't admitto what they are doing and what they aren't? KWIM?Anyway, thanks for helping me out!Ruth

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[Guest guest]

Ruth...any time....keep us posted as to what happens. My son's meeting is next Friday, the 27th. I am bring my advocate too. I'll keep everyone informed.

Jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth@...>Subject: Re: ( ) Opinions please - discussing homework with teachers Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 10:33 PM

>> Does your son have a case manager? My son has one....she works withhim and all the teachers and coordinates everything.. .and then we havethe Special Ed. Supervisor.� But, when I get totally fustrated ...Iemail our Asst. Superintendent of Sp.Ed.� Then I get results. Yes, thanks for reminding me. I have done that a few times before andalso gotten a lot more results--regarding the SPED director. My son's504 team leader is an assistant principal who doesn't really get theissues very well either, unfortunately. 504 doesn't normally dealwith things like autism, so I blame the school district more for thisthan him personally. I have to give him credit that he appears to betrying to learn, although by the time he does,

my son will be out ofhis school. And, although he didn't make the decision by himself, hewas pretty much the one who did what needed to be done to get my sonfinally referred to the Autism Team. Anyway, you're right; I should probably contact the SPED director I'vetalked to a few times before when things got out of hand. She canfigure out a way to discuss it with them in a way that is palatable tothem.I feel bad going over this assist principal's head, but I know fromexperience that if I try to talk to him about it, he'll deny that theteachers aren't following the 504 Plan. He just can't deal with that.And how can we discuss what is and isn't working if they won't admitto what they are doing and what they aren't? KWIM?Anyway, thanks for helping me out!Ruth

[Guest guest]

In our case, I have realized I am my sons biggest advocate. I document everything - seriously everything. I call a meeting and I want the teacher there, special ed teacher, counsler and atleat two asst. principals. I prepare and make hand-outs and lead the meeting myself and tell them what I want, expect and how they should proceed. I listen to their imput. I then send a copy to the school district's head of special ed and the actual state education department. I have had great results by doing it this way.

Faith

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth@...>Subject: Re: ( ) Opinions please - discussing homework with teachers Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 9:33 PM

>> Does your son have a case manager? My son has one....she works withhim and all the teachers and coordinates everything.. .and then we havethe Special Ed. Supervisor.� But, when I get totally fustrated ...Iemail our Asst. Superintendent of Sp.Ed.� Then I get results. Yes, thanks for reminding me. I have done that a few times before andalso gotten a lot more results--regarding the SPED director. My son's504 team leader is an assistant principal who doesn't really get theissues very well either, unfortunately. 504 doesn't normally dealwith things like autism, so I blame the school district more for thisthan him personally. I have to give him credit that he appears to betrying to learn, although by the time he does,

my son will be out ofhis school. And, although he didn't make the decision by himself, hewas pretty much the one who did what needed to be done to get my sonfinally referred to the Autism Team. Anyway, you're right; I should probably contact the SPED director I'vetalked to a few times before when things got out of hand. She canfigure out a way to discuss it with them in a way that is palatable tothem.I feel bad going over this assist principal's head, but I know fromexperience that if I try to talk to him about it, he'll deny that theteachers aren't following the 504 Plan. He just can't deal with that.And how can we discuss what is and isn't working if they won't admitto what they are doing and what they aren't? KWIM?Anyway, thanks for helping me out!Ruth

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for all the support and advice! You really helped me

get my head together as I was rather depressed over everything and not

thinking clearly. I decided to send the assist principal/504 team

leader the " Homework, Oh Homework " article to share with the teachers

as he saw fit. And I e-mailed the assist SPED director that I talk to

with a complaint about the 504 Plan not being followed and a request

to advise the 504 Team on what to do while we are waiting on the

Autism evaluation.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

It seems to me that the main problem is that they are not following the 504 plan. I am a "cut to the chase" kind of person. I would focus on that - is it too hard? they can't read it? Talk to the guy who heads the 504 team and ask him what he thinks would help to get these people to follow the 504. It's his job, after all, to implement and oversee the 504 plan. Obviously, he does a crappy job of it. Try encouraging him to take it seriously. After all, you don't know if it works or doesn't work since nobody is doing it. After that, I would contact each teacher and meet and discuss the 504. Or email each one with a short "this is AS" bullet point and a request to follow the 504 plan.

I am also wondering why it would take an autism team months to evaluate a child with autism for an educational plan? I don't understand what the big deal is that requires so much time? Oh yeah, bureaucracy. Well, you need to be writing follow up letters even to these little meetings. Make statements showing they are not following the plan. You can do it nicely but you need to document what is happening. Also, ask them for a list of evaluations to be done for this "autism" whatever they are going to do. Ask for dates and times. You know, they say, "Well, he has to have this evaluation done..." and so you smile and say, "Great, when is that scheduled to happen?"

As for them liking you, that is always my last concern. I want to be nice and not tick people off. But they still need to do what they are supposed to do. So you can keep informing them of his needs and information relevant to the situation even if that annoys them. Just be polite but persistant. And trust me, once your kid is graduated, they will be nowhere around to help you.

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

( ) Opinions please - discussing homework with teachers

I'd really like to know what you guys think about this. This being mygiving that "Homework, Oh, Homework" article to my son's teachers inan e-mail. It is very apropos at the moment because all of them arenot following the things in his 504 requiring them to either writethings down for him, have him write things down, or give him writtendirections or checklists. I sense a lot of frustration and hostility.It doesn't make sense to them because they don't understand theneurological issues and think he must just be REALLY spoiled and Imust be a really lenient, misguided parent.We have this meeting coming up, but it is only to rubberstamp himbeing referred to an IEP/Autism evaluation, which will of course nothave any results for at least two or three months. I'm wondering whatthe plan is meanwhile since the 504 is not being followed, which Iassume means it doesn't work for the teachers. It certainly isn'tworking for my son.Do you think it would help or just piss them off more? Should I askthe assist principal who is the 504 team leader what he thinks? Mindyou, he seems to know as little about Autism as the teachers, althoughhe at least seems to have gotten to the point where he's realizing hehas some knowledge gaps. I'm thinking of writing something to the effect of "I sense everyoneis feeling a lot of frustration regarding and homework; I know Iam. The following is an article written by an Autism consultant thatyou might find helpful." And leave it at that. I think they think sopoorly of me that the less I say the better.Ruth

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[Guest guest]

The answer to your last question is to document everything. Then you don't need to argue with anyone about what is and is not happening. Short follow up notes/letters could be all you need to show that the 504 is not being followed. You don't need to stand and argue with this guy. You can simply show him your documentation and by pass the "is it being followed?" and go directly to "It's not being followed, now what can we do?"

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

Re: ( ) Opinions please - discussing homework with teachers

>> Does your son have a case manager? My son has one....she works withhim and all the teachers and coordinates everything...and then we havethe Special Ed. Supervisor.� But, when I get totally fustrated ...Iemail our Asst. Superintendent of Sp.Ed.� Then I get results. Yes, thanks for reminding me. I have done that a few times before andalso gotten a lot more results--regarding the SPED director. My son's504 team leader is an assistant principal who doesn't really get theissues very well either, unfortunately. 504 doesn't normally dealwith things like autism, so I blame the school district more for thisthan him personally. I have to give him credit that he appears to betrying to learn, although by the time he does, my son will be out ofhis school. And, although he didn't make the decision by himself, hewas pretty much the one who did what needed to be done to get my sonfinally referred to the Autism Team. Anyway, you're right; I should probably contact the SPED director I'vetalked to a few times before when things got out of hand. She canfigure out a way to discuss it with them in a way that is palatable tothem.I feel bad going over this assist principal's head, but I know fromexperience that if I try to talk to him about it, he'll deny that theteachers aren't following the 504 Plan. He just can't deal with that.And how can we discuss what is and isn't working if they won't admitto what they are doing and what they aren't? KWIM?Anyway, thanks for helping me out!Ruth

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[Guest guest]

>

> It seems to me that the main problem is that they are not following

the 504 plan.

That's half the problem. The other half is that the 504 Plan is not

adequate--which is a big part of the problem of why it is not being

followed. The teachers are both overwhelmed and not understanding my

son's problems--they aren't SPED teachers so they don't know how to

interpret the 504 or handle it effectively.

> Talk to the guy who heads the 504 team and ask him what he thinks

would help to get these people to follow the 504. It's his job, after

all, to implement and oversee the 504 plan. Obviously, he does a

crappy job of it.

Yes, he does LOL. He's new to the job of assistant principal/504

coordinator, and he comes from a business background rather than

education background. So, he's learning on my son. And I've found it

impossible to discuss anything because he can't admit they aren't

following the 504 Plan. So, you're right, I'm going to have to bring

in all the documented evidence so we can quit arguing about it. I

think that will work with the whole group there. The SPED director

has talked to him and assured me I will be heard at this next meeting

and call her if I have any questions. So, I think if I hold up my

end, we should get somewhere. I have no problems with documentation.

Or email each one with a short " this is AS " bullet point and a request

to follow the 504 plan.

I do all this, of course. I just e-mailed them all a copy of the 504

Plan recently with said request. I got a couple of half-hearted

responses from a couple of teachers. I send them good articles like

the " Homework, Oh Homework " article that I'm pretty sure would be

helpful to them if they would take the time to think about it. I send

them an introductory letter at the beginning of the year and semester.

I think they may help some, but I think they need more detailed

training. They need some support from a SPED person who knows

something about Autism.

> I am also wondering why it would take an autism team months to

evaluate a child with autism for an educational plan?

I'm referring to the 2 or 3 months (don't remember exactly) they have

from the time the eval is signed off on to when they have to have a

completed IEP in place.

Anyway, what I'm busy with right now is making sure all my T's are

crossed going into our 504 meeting at the end of this-coming week.

Trying to come up with constructive ways to present ideas and

documentation... Trying to get the mountain of paperwork associated

with our own private autism eval done at the same time... Trying to

keep my boss happy... Having a lot of fun!

Ruth

Ruth

[Guest guest]

Ruth, have you seen the aspergertips website?

Welcome to Unlocking the Puzzle!

In a message dated 2/21/2009 11:56:16 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, me2ruth@... writes:

>> It seems to me that the main problem is that they are not followingthe 504 plan. That's half the problem. The other half is that the 504 Plan is notadequate--which is a big part of the problem of why it is not beingfollowed. The teachers are both overwhelmed and not understanding myson's problems--they aren't SPED teachers so they don't know how tointerpret the 504 or handle it effectively.> Talk to the guy who heads the 504 team and ask him what he thinkswould help to get these people to follow the 504. It's his job, afterall, to implement and oversee the 504 plan. Obviously, he does acrappy job of it. Yes, he does LOL. He's new to the job of assistant principal/504coordinator, and he comes from a business background rather thaneducation background. So, he's learning on my son. And I've found itimpossible to discuss anything because he can't admit they aren'tfollowing the 504 Plan. So, you're right, I'm going to have to bringin all the documented evidence so we can quit arguing about it. Ithink that will work with the whole group there. The SPED directorhas talked to him and assured me I will be heard at this next meetingand call her if I have any questions. So, I think if I hold up myend, we should get somewhere. I have no problems with documentation. :)Or email each one with a short "this is AS" bullet point and a requestto follow the 504 plan. I do all this, of course. I just e-mailed them all a copy of the 504Plan recently with said request. I got a couple of half-heartedresponses from a couple of teachers. I send them good articles likethe "Homework, Oh Homework" article that I'm pretty sure would behelpful to them if they would take the time to think about it. I sendthem an introductory letter at the beginning of the year and semester.I think they may help some, but I think they need more detailedtraining. They need some support from a SPED person who knowssomething about Autism.> I am also wondering why it would take an autism team months toevaluate a child with autism for an educational plan? I'm referring to the 2 or 3 months (don't remember exactly) they havefrom the time the eval is signed off on to when they have to have acompleted IEP in place.Anyway, what I'm busy with right now is making sure all my T's arecrossed going into our 504 meeting at the end of this-coming week. Trying to come up with constructive ways to present ideas anddocumentation... Trying to get the mountain of paperwork associatedwith our own private autism eval done at the same time... Trying tokeep my boss happy... Having a lot of fun! :(RuthRuth

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[Guest guest]

>

> Ruth, have you seen the aspergertips website?

>

> _Welcome to Unlocking the Puzzle!_

(http://aspergertips.com/pageONE.html)

Thanks, no I hadn't seen this one. This is nice--reasonably brief but

still fairly comprehensive. Now, if I could just get someone to read

it...

Ruth

[Guest guest]

Great ideas, Faith! I always tell people to write follow ups all the time!! They can really cut down on arguing later.

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

Re: ( ) Opinions please - discussing homework with teachers Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 9:33 PM

>> Does your son have a case manager? My son has one....she works withhim and all the teachers and coordinates everything.. .and then we havethe Special Ed. Supervisor.� But, when I get totally fustrated ...Iemail our Asst. Superintendent of Sp.Ed.� Then I get results. Yes, thanks for reminding me. I have done that a few times before andalso gotten a lot more results--regarding the SPED director. My son's504 team leader is an assistant principal who doesn't really get theissues very well either, unfortunately. 504 doesn't normally dealwith things like autism, so I blame the school district more for thisthan him personally. I have to give him credit that he appears to betrying to learn, although by the time he does, my son will be out ofhis school. And, although he didn't make the decision by himself, hewas pretty much the one who did what needed to be done to get my sonfinally referred to the Autism Team. Anyway, you're right; I should probably contact the SPED director I'vetalked to a few times before when things got out of hand. She canfigure out a way to discuss it with them in a way that is palatable tothem.I feel bad going over this assist principal's head, but I know fromexperience that if I try to talk to him about it, he'll deny that theteachers aren't following the 504 Plan. He just can't deal with that.And how can we discuss what is and isn't working if they won't admitto what they are doing and what they aren't? KWIM?Anyway, thanks for helping me out!Ruth

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[Guest guest]

Ruth, you are being way too nice, IMO. Just because they aren't sped teachers, doesn't mean they can't comprehend simple changes to help a child with special needs. I think it laziness or maybe they think they know better than you (or the sped people or the 504 people...) And you send them information - so it's not that tough to read through it. I know there are lots of kids in each class. But not all kids are special needs. And besides, that is the job.

Definitely document the problems and stop going in circles with these people. You will feel much better if you can get past their arguments (and on to new arguments....LOL)

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

Re: ( ) Opinions please - discussing homework with teachers

>> It seems to me that the main problem is that they are not followingthe 504 plan. That's half the problem. The other half is that the 504 Plan is notadequate--which is a big part of the problem of why it is not beingfollowed. The teachers are both overwhelmed and not understanding myson's problems--they aren't SPED teachers so they don't know how tointerpret the 504 or handle it effectively.> Talk to the guy who heads the 504 team and ask him what he thinkswould help to get these people to follow the 504. It's his job, afterall, to implement and oversee the 504 plan. Obviously, he does acrappy job of it. Yes, he does LOL. He's new to the job of assistant principal/504coordinator, and he comes from a business background rather thaneducation background. So, he's learning on my son. And I've found itimpossible to discuss anything because he can't admit they aren'tfollowing the 504 Plan. So, you're right, I'm going to have to bringin all the documented evidence so we can quit arguing about it. Ithink that will work with the whole group there. The SPED directorhas talked to him and assured me I will be heard at this next meetingand call her if I have any questions. So, I think if I hold up myend, we should get somewhere. I have no problems with documentation. :)Or email each one with a short "this is AS" bullet point and a requestto follow the 504 plan. I do all this, of course. I just e-mailed them all a copy of the 504Plan recently with said request. I got a couple of half-heartedresponses from a couple of teachers. I send them good articles likethe "Homework, Oh Homework" article that I'm pretty sure would behelpful to them if they would take the time to think about it. I sendthem an introductory letter at the beginning of the year and semester.I think they may help some, but I think they need more detailedtraining. They need some support from a SPED person who knowssomething about Autism.> I am also wondering why it would take an autism team months toevaluate a child with autism for an educational plan? I'm referring to the 2 or 3 months (don't remember exactly) they havefrom the time the eval is signed off on to when they have to have acompleted IEP in place.Anyway, what I'm busy with right now is making sure all my T's arecrossed going into our 504 meeting at the end of this-coming week. Trying to come up with constructive ways to present ideas anddocumentation... Trying to get the mountain of paperwork associatedwith our own private autism eval done at the same time... Trying tokeep my boss happy... Having a lot of fun! :(RuthRuth

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[Guest guest]

Another good idea that has been done successfully is to read what you need them to know at the start of the meeting. Stand up, hand out handouts to everyone and commence reading. Now, I personally hate having things read to me, lol, but in situations where people are not bothering to learn, it works and is an effective way to get your point across. Also, document the problems with specific teachers so you can then say, "We need teacher training!" They are going to balk since all the teachers are "highly educated" - but when you produce data showing the problems, you don't have to argue need.

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

Re: ( ) Opinions please - discussing homework with teachers

>> Ruth, have you seen the aspergertips website? > > _Welcome to Unlocking the Puzzle!_(http://aspergertips.com/pageONE.html) Thanks, no I hadn't seen this one. This is nice--reasonably brief butstill fairly comprehensive. Now, if I could just get someone to readit...Ruth

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[Guest guest]

>

> Definitely document the problems and stop going in circles with

these people. You will feel much better if you can get past their

arguments (and on to new arguments....LOL)

I guess maybe it seems like we're going in circles, but really we've

gone from nothing, to informal accommodations, to 504 accommodations,

to what will probably be an IEP in about 2 years. That's definitely

linear, and I think it is pretty typical. What DOES sorta go in

circles is that every year all the teachers have never had a child

like mine and take half the year to realize, yeah, there is something

more than meets the eye, then the rest of the year to begin to figure

out what to do. Then next year we start all over. That is something

that definitely needs to be fixed, and maybe that will be the

difference between a 504 and an IEP.

As far as being too easy on them, I think it is more a matter of

reality. I can sit here and say they " ought " to know this and the

" ought " to do that until I'm blue in the face, but that isn't going to

change the reality that they don't and aren't. And I unfortunately

don't have the pull to be able to walk into the school and start

ordering people around. It's more a process of advocating, educating

and giving them the space to figure things out. Every year teachers

and administrators tell me my son was a first and a learning experience!

Probably the most unfortunate thing that happened is that

nobody--either us or them--figured out what was going on until so

late. All these people getting diagnoses at 4,5,6 are very lucky. I

really think earlier intervention will help a lot. Of course, this

has only been happening the past 2 or 3 years, and kids older than my

son were often not diagnosed until even later, even adulthood.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

I certainly didn't say you should walk into school and start "ordering" people around. I assume there is some level of finesse that parents acquire after a while to learn that part and if you lack it, get an advocate who has it. But saying the school does what it wants is saying you have no power to change the way it works and I reject this as an excuse/reason. It's a defeatist attitude and you are always going to be at the mercy of their schedules, their priorities, their timelines and opinions. If you are lucky, someone might take pity and help things along. If not, nothing will ever get better. Well, not until/unless "they" want it to.

I totally disagree with that scenario and refuse to accept it for my own self and I don't care what state I am living in, having lived in several. When I first started advocating for my own kids, I didn't even know there WAS a law regarding sped. I was operating just on common sense alone, lol. Imagine that. lol. We didn't have the internet. I wasn't connected to information or support. My kid, my oldest dd, was making it through school barely. So I didn't even have an obvious problem to point at and say, "You have to help her." Just a lot of smaller troubling problems adding up fast.

I have learned that schools operate the way they do because people let them. I usually got what I wanted because I spoke up when I saw a clear violation of the law. (later, when I learned there was a law, lol) With data and the law to back you up, you have power you can use to make things happen. I got my ducks in a row before I made requests and I thought through all the possible excuses against what I wanted to obtain. Then I had answers for them. I also have to be willing to be practical and consider their POV as well as learn to compromise, knowing that a toe in the door can lead to a foot, to a leg and pretty soon to a whole body. I understand this is a bureaucracy and that making changes is like pulling teeth. But to say "it is what it is" is to give up, IMO. It's not easy but it's not undoable. All they need to keep doing things they way they do it is for people to never speak up or expect differently.

Was it always simple/easy? No way. I learned though that if you are struggling with the same conversations, the same kind of meetings, the same lack of help - then something has to change. Doing the same things repeatedly expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity or something like that. While that is a cute saying, it's also true. You have to shake things up somehow. I go through and decide where I need to move things in order to get where I want to be. Do I not have the data I need to prove the point? Do I need to go over the heads of gatekeepers? Do I need to write the district and request information on procedures/process for any specific glitch that is causing me to not get past the problem? Do I need to speak to the superintendent, the school board, the state? Do I need to file a complaint, write letters, organize people to write letters, or file due process? Do I need an advocate, another advocate, a large group of friends to witness, a big burly man (sorry, but having my dh ask for things was sometimes my method of choice and it worked), a lawyer?

If you are banging your head against a wall, change something in the process and make it change or move along. But to just say you can't because they won't is to give up really and say it's out of your hands. And it's not entirely true. I have seen really tough schools argue against some really basic things too. And it always came down to how far the parents were willing to push it. If a parent can be put off for a few years, more the better for them. So I decided I had limits to spinning my wheels before I went to the next level of discussion.

Anyway, take what you will or won't from what I've said but I just wanted to say I didn't say to walk in "ordering" people around and I also don't think that is the only way to make things happen.

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

Re: ( ) Opinions please - discussing homework with teachers

>> Definitely document the problems and stop going in circles withthese people. You will feel much better if you can get past theirarguments (and on to new arguments....LOL)I guess maybe it seems like we're going in circles, but really we'vegone from nothing, to informal accommodations, to 504 accommodations,to what will probably be an IEP in about 2 years. That's definitelylinear, and I think it is pretty typical. What DOES sorta go incircles is that every year all the teachers have never had a childlike mine and take half the year to realize, yeah, there is somethingmore than meets the eye, then the rest of the year to begin to figureout what to do. Then next year we start all over. That is somethingthat definitely needs to be fixed, and maybe that will be thedifference between a 504 and an IEP.As far as being too easy on them, I think it is more a matter ofreality. I can sit here and say they "ought" to know this and the"ought" to do that until I'm blue in the face, but that isn't going tochange the reality that they don't and aren't. And I unfortunatelydon't have the pull to be able to walk into the school and startordering people around. It's more a process of advocating, educatingand giving them the space to figure things out. Every year teachersand administrators tell me my son was a first and a learning experience!Probably the most unfortunate thing that happened is thatnobody--either us or them--figured out what was going on until solate. All these people getting diagnoses at 4,5,6 are very lucky. Ireally think earlier intervention will help a lot. Of course, thishas only been happening the past 2 or 3 years, and kids older than myson were often not diagnosed until even later, even adulthood.Ruth

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[Guest guest]

I have not been following this post...but just read your's Roxanna. I know for a FACT and I mean a FACT that PARENTS have so much POWER in the school system....it is just not well known!!! Parents are not aware of their rights, and their child's rights.

How do I know this? Becuase I work in a school... and I know wonderful teachers....and advocates....and believe me....they have told to me....that I have the POWER! I had always thought it was reversed...but it isn't. You are 100% correct Roxanna....

I know people will say..but you still have problems...Yes I do. But it is difficult as my son as well as every other child does not fit neatly in a box....each child is so individual. It is like fine tuning a foreign car...very very delicate. Our kids are human and so ar the teachers. Each plan does not work in every situation. And, I just found our my son has AS (at the beginning of last year, Oct.). Plus he had a terrible and I mean terrible Case Manager and I should have put my foot down and had her removed from his case. I am still learning myself. Plus even though it is on paper doesn't mean every teacher follows it and how can I know as my son doesn't always tell me.

For instance...take art....I was NEVER notified he was failing...he never told me... and the art teacher did not inform his case manager. At the IEP meeting I brought it up. I brought up the fact that his band teacher called and emailed me so why not the ART teacher. Also, they were doing Self-Portraits...fine hand motor skills and then painting. My son said blue paint spilled over his. I bet he did that so no one could see his. He doesn't do will with fine motor skills and he probably was afraid to do it or did it and didn't want anyone to see. But, my point was Why wasnt' I notified? The Sped Supervisor is looking into this. culd have been given another assignment...accommodated...etc. but he wasn't. So he is going to get a chance again and I am going to make sure it is doing something he can handle. I could make a bigger stink...but I think I got it across...they didn't follow the IEP...Federal Law and they know it ....my

son's is not going to be treated that way and recieve an F in art.

But I also beleive if he misbehave...that he needs to serve the consequences....as that is what is going to happen in Real Life. I don't want him thinking I can do what I want. But I also want him to be taught...reinforcement of proper behavior....don't just discipline w/out working on this area.

Anyways...I have said enough...I am exhausted and this is not easy on any of us. I just wanted to Let EVERYONE know ....Parents have MORE POWER than they think. The school and personnel doesn't want you to know this...they will come out in forces....but you are actually more powerful than all of them. Go in knowing this, go in with facts and laws and understanding the regulations...Surprise them...OMG...and if you have to bring a taperecorder or someone one else..even as a witness. Wish I had when was in 5th grade...Oh the lies I was told and then denied.

Jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: Roxanna <madideas@...>Subject: Re: ( ) Opinions please - discussing homework with teachers Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 10:53 AM

I certainly didn't say you should walk into school and start "ordering" people around. I assume there is some level of finesse that parents acquire after a while to learn that part and if you lack it, get an advocate who has it. But saying the school does what it wants is saying you have no power to change the way it works and I reject this as an excuse/reason. It's a defeatist attitude and you are always going to be at the mercy of their schedules, their priorities, their timelines and opinions. If you are lucky, someone might take pity and help things along. If not, nothing will ever get better. Well, not until/unless "they" want it to.

I totally disagree with that scenario and refuse to accept it for my own self and I don't care what state I am living in, having lived in several. When I first started advocating for my own kids, I didn't even know there WAS a law regarding sped. I was operating just on common sense alone, lol. Imagine that. lol. We didn't have the internet. I wasn't connected to information or support. My kid, my oldest dd, was making it through school barely. So I didn't even have an obvious problem to point at and say, "You have to help her." Just a lot of smaller troubling problems adding up fast.

I have learned that schools operate the way they do because people let them. I usually got what I wanted because I spoke up when I saw a clear violation of the law. (later, when I learned there was a law, lol) With data and the law to back you up, you have power you can use to make things happen. I got my ducks in a row before I made requests and I thought through all the possible excuses against what I wanted to obtain. Then I had answers for them. I also have to be willing to be practical and consider their POV as well as learn to compromise, knowing that a toe in the door can lead to a foot, to a leg and pretty soon to a whole body. I understand this is a bureaucracy and that making changes is like pulling teeth. But to say "it is what it is" is to give up, IMO. It's not easy but it's not undoable. All they need to keep doing things

they way they do it is for people to never speak up or expect differently.

Was it always simple/easy? No way. I learned though that if you are struggling with the same conversations, the same kind of meetings, the same lack of help - then something has to change. Doing the same things repeatedly expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity or something like that. While that is a cute saying, it's also true. You have to shake things up somehow. I go through and decide where I need to move things in order to get where I want to be. Do I not have the data I need to prove the point? Do I need to go over the heads of gatekeepers? Do I need to write the district and request information on procedures/process for any specific glitch that is causing me to not get past the problem? Do I need to speak to the superintendent, the school board, the state? Do I need to file a complaint, write letters, organize

people to write letters, or file due process? Do I need an advocate, another advocate, a large group of friends to witness, a big burly man (sorry, but having my dh ask for things was sometimes my method of choice and it worked), a lawyer?

If you are banging your head against a wall, change something in the process and make it change or move along. But to just say you can't because they won't is to give up really and say it's out of your hands. And it's not entirely true. I have seen really tough schools argue against some really basic things too. And it always came down to how far the parents were willing to push it. If a parent can be put off for a few years, more the better for them. So I decided I had limits to spinning my wheels before I went to the next level of discussion.

Anyway, take what you will or won't from what I've said but I just wanted to say I didn't say to walk in "ordering" people around and I also don't think that is the only way to make things happen.

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

Re: ( ) Opinions please - discussing homework with teachers

>> Definitely document the problems and stop going in circles withthese people. You will feel much better if you can get past theirarguments (and on to new arguments... .LOL)I guess maybe it seems like we're going in circles, but really we'vegone from nothing, to informal accommodations, to 504 accommodations,to what will probably be an IEP in about 2 years. That's definitelylinear, and I think it is pretty typical. What DOES sorta go incircles is that every year all the teachers have never had a childlike mine and take half the year to realize, yeah, there is somethingmore than meets the eye, then the rest of the year to begin to figureout what to do. Then next year we start all over. That is somethingthat definitely needs to be

fixed, and maybe that will be thedifference between a 504 and an IEP.As far as being too easy on them, I think it is more a matter ofreality. I can sit here and say they "ought" to know this and the"ought" to do that until I'm blue in the face, but that isn't going tochange the reality that they don't and aren't. And I unfortunatelydon't have the pull to be able to walk into the school and startordering people around. It's more a process of advocating, educatingand giving them the space to figure things out. Every year teachersand administrators tell me my son was a first and a learning experience!Probably the most unfortunate thing that happened is thatnobody--either us or them--figured out what was going on until solate. All these people getting diagnoses at 4,5,6 are very lucky. Ireally think earlier intervention will help a lot. Of course, thishas only been happening the past 2 or 3

years, and kids older than myson were often not diagnosed until even later, even adulthood.Ruth

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.2/1965 - Release Date: 02/21/09 15:36:00