Re: Need advice on school autism eval

[Guest guest]

Dylan was specifically tested for Aspergers, not autism, when the school did their evaluation last year. It identified him as having Aspergers and they used the following procedures and sources of information:

Wechsler Individual Achievement Test (2nd edition, WIAT-II)

Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (4th edition, WISC-IV)

Behavior Assessment System for Children-Teacher Reports (BASC-TRS)

Behavior Assessment System for Children-Parent Reports (BASC-PRS)

Behavior Assessment System for Children-Self-Report (BASC-SRP)

Gilliam Asperger's Disorder Scale (GADS)

Record of developmental history provided by mother

Vision and Hearing screening

For the BASC-TRS, they had 4 teachers fill out the observations sheets which I thought was great. Knowing some teachers might not like him or others might be too lenient with him in some ways, having 4 different teachers fill out observation sheets made me trust the results more.

They also listed the DSM-IV criteria for Aspergers and then listed how Dylan's behavior fit in with the criteria, which I thought was helpful.

Thought I'd list it all out for you because I've always been impressed with the testing/evaluation from the Austin Independent School District. If you need any additional information about Dylan's last evaluation, let me know.

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth@...> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 12:21:19 PMSubject: ( ) Need advice on school autism eval

Hi all. Kinda curious if anybody has any thoughts on our situation. Some background.. . The school district will be doing another SPEDeval (their initiation) on our 14yo son with AS, specifically toverify his autism and get more detail. As you might imagine, I haveadded some things I want to make sure get covered, and I have providedinput I want to make sure gets considered. It should be a completeeval. His last school SPED eval was to check for LDs and emotionaldisturbance. His current AUT classification (with a 504 Plan--no IEP)is coming from our private neuropsych eval we had done. He also hasmoderate to severe developmental coordination disability (DCD), alongwith the usual mix of sensory issues, poor emotional control, anxiety,executive dysfunction. No hyperactivity and no aggressive behaviors.He is very bright.OK, now for my question... Public schools are known for giving kidson the

upper end of the spectrum tests that are only appropriate forkids on the lower and middle of the spectrum and saying they don'thave autism when they don't find anything. I'm not saying that thisis going to happen with my school district, but I'm curious if anybodyhas any ideas on how to avoid this? Since they should not do any testing without our okay, I figure I cancheck out the tests and make sure they are okay. I figure I can checkout the credentials of the person doing the testing and make sure theyare really qualified. I can make sure there is somebody on the IEPteam that truly understands the test results (a problem in the past). Am I missing anything? Anybody have any BTDT to share? It would begreat to get some heads up on what to expect from school districtautism testing and ideas of caveats to look for.Thanks!Ruth

[Guest guest]

>

> Dylan was specifically tested for Aspergers, not autism, when the

school did their evaluation last year.� It identified him as having

Aspergers and they used the following procedures and sources of

information:

Thanks, . My son's SPED eval was actually very similar to your

son's, minus the GADS since they weren't testing for Asperger at the

time and plus other things for ED and LDs. And the Asperger stuff was

taken care of in the neuropsych eval.

Which, one thing this tells me is that they have enough information

regarding the dx itself, so this must be about something else. And I

think the something else is just that they can't figure out how to get

my son to do anything at school LOL. They're hung up on the fact that

such a smart kid must be willfully doing all this stuff, because he

couldn't possibly not understand. Honestly, they can't get past that

to think about solutions. I keep trying to explain to them how he

doesn't generalize, doesn't read situations the typical way, etc., and

they just can't wrap their brains around it. I think they think I'm

nuts. And I'm not sure I'm really being critical. If I didn't

have an AS kid myself, I really don't know what I'd think if someone

tried to tell me their kid really thought this way.

Anyway... I'm learning to stop talking so much to the school and

doing so much for my son so the school is forced to figure things out

for themselves.

I think this will really help knowing how other people's schools have

done this as a check.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

A few ideas to add to 's list:

You might try finding information about 2E kids to give to the "team." It is amazing how many relatively smart people do not get how a kid can be gifted and LD at the same time. I have faced the similar problem here with the gifted programming people who do not "do" LD kids. <g> But if they cannot grasp that, then I think whatever else they do, they won't get the point. So this is primary, IMO.

When you get the testing scores (ahead of the meeting!), make sure you get all scores written in a variety of ways (grade equivalent, age equiv., percentile). I would highlight (before the meeting but after I have the test scores) the varying scores of the subtests and subcategories, skipping the ultimate (probably high) score that was averaged. You know, if people look at one averaged score, they think, "Hey, it's average...so there is no problem." But if you look at subtest scores, they are often telling. My kid can score 18+ (age) in one area and 5 or 6 yo in another - all within the same test. So you can see that while, yes, he is exceptionally ahead here, he is extremely behind there. Or you can say, "Look, he's the 1 %ile in processing...do you see that?" lol (Yes, I've said that.)

Another thought is to not put so much emphasis on their dx. It is not a medical dx, which you already know. I mean, I would just confidently produce my own doc's reports and rely on them as the dx. Whatever these people find or do not find does not negate the dx - it means they looked or didn't look (IMO, anyway.) And that is the attitude I would have towards this. I would create the data to back up the dx as well so when it is discussed, I can back up what I want to say.

I've not had the problem of having to "prove" a dx because both my two have autism and the speech delay alone was obvious enough. But my youngest has dyslexia and I haven't had to argue with anyone yet but I do wonder how to do that, just in case I need to. What I have been doing is laying ground work ahead of time - gathering data to prove my point. So if you have been doing that, great! Have lots of examples of his work showing problems. Write down examples that you have witnessed or discussed with them before. You can even use experiences outside of school to prove the problem(s) - say he got upset at church or with a friend and it was an "obvious AS moment." Write it down as an example.

I would bring in my own "report" to the meeting. As a parent, you can document so many things that affect real life and you see the child at home doing his work - not one of 25 other kids. I often write the PLOP myself if I see that theirs is not sufficient or if they do a crappy job with it. THey either attach mine to the IEP or they rewrite it using my information. If I had to note the specific problems they have with school outside of the IEP meeting (like for an MFE), I would create a report with data as well. At the least, create a list so you can refer to it at the meeting and give examples for each point. When they say, "We don't see that problem" you will be able to say, "Oh but it is happening...this time and this example and..yadda yadda" You already know every argument they will be giving you from past experience. Now is the time to go down their list of excuses and come up with the data to answer each one.

Good luck!

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

Re: ( ) Need advice on school autism eval

>> Dylan was specifically tested for Aspergers, not autism, when theschool did their evaluation last year.� It identified him as havingAspergers and they used the following procedures and sources ofinformation:Thanks, . My son's SPED eval was actually very similar to yourson's, minus the GADS since they weren't testing for Asperger at thetime and plus other things for ED and LDs. And the Asperger stuff wastaken care of in the neuropsych eval.Which, one thing this tells me is that they have enough informationregarding the dx itself, so this must be about something else. And Ithink the something else is just that they can't figure out how to getmy son to do anything at school LOL. They're hung up on the fact thatsuch a smart kid must be willfully doing all this stuff, because hecouldn't possibly not understand. Honestly, they can't get past thatto think about solutions. I keep trying to explain to them how hedoesn't generalize, doesn't read situations the typical way, etc., andthey just can't wrap their brains around it. I think they think I'mnuts. And I'm not sure I'm really being critical. If I didn'thave an AS kid myself, I really don't know what I'd think if someonetried to tell me their kid really thought this way.Anyway... I'm learning to stop talking so much to the school anddoing so much for my son so the school is forced to figure things outfor themselves.I think this will really help knowing how other people's schools havedone this as a check.Ruth

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[Guest guest]

>

> A few ideas to add to 's list:

Roxanna, these are great ideas--thanks bunches. I especially am glad

you brought up the points on 2E because I've been thinking a lot about

that. I think I needed a little push to bring that to the front of

the line.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

I am probably being a pain in the butt but I really think it is

important so I am going to put in my 2 cents.

The special ed process in this country (US) is not about diagnosing a

child with anything it is about determining if the child meets the

criteria necessary for special ed. The test that the school will do

are not to dx anything it is to see if they are deficient in any area

to a large enough margin to qualify for extra services.

Therefore, a child may be determined to qualify for services under

any number of areas. Speach, Emotional-Behavioral, Cognitive,

Autism, etc. They may determine that a child with AS qualifies for

special ed due to a speach delay. This does not mean that the child

does not have Autism it just means that they did not qualify for

special services under the catagory of Autism. Some children qualify

under multiple catagories. Regardles of what catagory they qualify

they are then entitled to the same services as any other catagory.

Which is to say that the team (teachers, parents, and support staff)

will decide what services are necessary.

Even if a child is placed in special ed they must qualify for some

services with a separate evaluation. For example, a child in

special ed for Autism does not automatically qualify for OT

services. They will be evauated separately and must meet a certain

level of deficiency as it applies to education to receive those

services. So even if your doctor recomends OT the school is not

required to provide those services if it is not impacting him at

school.

As I understand it the test or evaluations that are used in public

school are determined either by the federal or state government and

therefore the school really doesn't have a choice in it.

Vickie

[Guest guest]

>

> I am probably being a pain in the butt

Not at all! I hope you don't ever feel that way on this list.

> The special ed process in this country (US) is not about diagnosing a

> child with anything it is about determining if the child meets the

> criteria necessary for special ed. The test that the school will do

> are not to dx anything it is to see if they are deficient in any area

> to a large enough margin to qualify for extra services.

These are very good points to make. I've been doing this so long that

this is a given for me, and I forget others who are newer to

everything may get confused by my omitting these points. That said,

although schools are not doing medical testing, the results of the

testing they are doing can conflict with the medical dx and/or call

the medical dx into question. You can end up with a school needs

analysis that doesn't match the dx recommendations. One's school may

not be able to officially cancel out the medical dx, but they sure can

go a long way to cancelling it out from a practical standpoint. It

isn't much help to have an Asperger dx if the school's evaluation

turns up that your child has no communication problems because they

don't know how to properly evaluate such things.

> As I understand it the test or evaluations that are used in public

> school are determined either by the federal or state government and

> therefore the school really doesn't have a choice in it.

This is not the case. Schools can and do use a wide variety of

testing tools. It is very important to check out what they are using

and make sure it is appropriate for your child's condition.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: Vickie Boehnlein <baneline1@...>Subject: Re: ( ) Need advice on school autism eval Date: Monday, November 24, 2008, 10:50 AM

I am probably being a pain in the butt but I really think it is important so I am going to put in my 2 cents.The special ed process in this country (US) is not about diagnosing a child with anything it is about determining if the child meets the criteria necessary for special ed. The test that the school will do are not to dx anything it is to see if they are deficient in any area to a large enough margin to qualify for extra services.Therefore, a child may be determined to qualify for services under any number of areas. Speach, Emotional-Behaviora l, Cognitive, Autism, etc. They may determine that a child with AS qualifies for special ed due to a speach delay. This does not mean that the child does not have Autism it just means that they did not qualify for special services under the catagory of Autism. Some children qualify under multiple catagories. Regardles of what catagory they

qualify they are then entitled to the same services as any other catagory. Which is to say that the team (teachers, parents, and support staff) will decide what services are necessary. Even if a child is placed in special ed they must qualify for some services with a separate evaluation. For example, a child in special ed for Autism does not automatically qualify for OT services. They will be evauated separately and must meet a certain level of deficiency as it applies to education to receive those services. So even if your doctor recomends OT the school is not required to provide those services if it is not impacting him at school.As I understand it the test or evaluations that are used in public school are determined either by the federal or state government and therefore the school really doesn't have a choice in it.

Vickie

[Guest guest]

Definitely a good point - you do have input into what tests are given as well. I have always requested a list of eval's that will be used before an MFE is done. Then I can ask them to add things in areas if I see they have left something out.

RoxannaYou're UniqueJust like everyone else...

Re: ( ) Need advice on school autism eval

>> I am probably being a pain in the butt Not at all! I hope you don't ever feel that way on this list.> The special ed process in this country (US) is not about diagnosing a > child with anything it is about determining if the child meets the > criteria necessary for special ed. The test that the school will do > are not to dx anything it is to see if they are deficient in any area > to a large enough margin to qualify for extra services.These are very good points to make. I've been doing this so long thatthis is a given for me, and I forget others who are newer toeverything may get confused by my omitting these points. That said,although schools are not doing medical testing, the results of thetesting they are doing can conflict with the medical dx and/or callthe medical dx into question. You can end up with a school needsanalysis that doesn't match the dx recommendations. One's school maynot be able to officially cancel out the medical dx, but they sure cango a long way to cancelling it out from a practical standpoint. Itisn't much help to have an Asperger dx if the school's evaluationturns up that your child has no communication problems because theydon't know how to properly evaluate such things.> As I understand it the test or evaluations that are used in public > school are determined either by the federal or state government and > therefore the school really doesn't have a choice in it. This is not the case. Schools can and do use a wide variety oftesting tools. It is very important to check out what they are usingand make sure it is appropriate for your child's condition.Ruth

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