Re: Secondary school - how to get along with teachers

[Guest guest]

Have you filed a Civil Rights complaint?

Advocacy, Inc. - ED9 — How To File A Complaint With The Department Of Education Office For Civil Rights

In a message dated 3/26/2009 6:43:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, me2ruth@... writes:

Everybody, I always end up alienating my sons teachers. I try different strategies every year, and it always turns to mud. It is always something different, although usually related to me being one of those bad parents. How does one not get put into that bag? My son doesn't have an IEP, so this is all general ed teachers with no training in autism. So, I'm put in this position of forever having to try to explain what my son needs. They ALWAYS take this as my never being happy with anything, being unreasonable, being a helicopter parent, being a parent who does nothing, just wanting my kid to get special help so he can get better grades, being a parent who doesn't care--I know all of you with kids in public school have heard it all too! Last year when I tried to describe my son's outbursts about homework, how what happened at school led to that, and my intervention methods (emphasizing how much of our evening this was taking up and how long it was taking him to get just simple assignments done)--somehow they twisted this around to my being an abusive parent!?All this year, all of my son's teachers have been blatantly not following my son's 504 Plan. So, what do they expect me to do? When I have asked the 504 coordinator about it, he asks the teachers if they are following it, they say "yes". And that is all he has to say about it. Yep, real energetic guy there. Don't worry, I've kept pushing LOL. Anyway, so all these teachers are mad at ME because they are not following this 504 plan and I constantly complain. They are shutting down just like our aspie kids shut down.So, I've been thinking and thinking about how I can avoid this environment of everybody pointing fingers and nobody wanting to do anything. I figure the leadership has to come from me; can't see as it is going to come from anybody at the school.I have called a meeting for the 504 Team and all core teachers, which will be in the middle of April (soonest everybody had a clear schedule). My plan is to just ask questions and try to get their side of the story, for starters.Anyway, that is all background. What I really want to know is how other people get along with their kids teachers in jr/sr high school. I think one mistake I made was not meeting with ALL the teachers at the beginning of the year and doing what we are going to be doing at our April 504 meeting--going through it line by line and making sure everybody is on board and make any needed changes. Then, I guess I need you need to meet again in the middle of the year to make sure everything is still okay. I'm thinking about automatically requesting ALL core teachers come to 504 meetings (they had no problem with that--don't know how the high school will be) and make sure EVERYBODY is happy with everything. By default, they only have one of the teachers at 504 meetings. She is supposed to speak for all teachers and spread the word afterwards, but that doesn't appear to have ever happened after any of our meetings.We just happened to get our roof fixed (from Hurricane Ike) on the same day they had parent open house, so I missed that. So, I especially needed to hold a meeting, I guess. I did send my intro letter, which got a great response, although said great response didn't last long. The thought has occurred to me that, if they are gossiping with teachers from last year, maybe I am still supposed to be an abusive parent? Maybe that is why they are being so stinky? I have to kinda laugh at that, although I suppose I shouldn't.Anyway, please give me your thoughts and advice, BTDT.Ruth

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[Guest guest]

>

> Have you filed a Civil Rights complaint?

I'm really not interested. --Ruth

[Guest guest]

First it's not you, it's the process. I have been through this too.

>

> Everybody, I always end up alienating my sons teachers. I try different

strategies every year, and it always turns to mud.

Can you try to get your son classified under IEP? It will take

resources. You can see a neurologist to give the diagnosis of AS. Sometimes a

child does not appear to have AS like my daughter. A neuropsch evaluation may

find concrete cognitve deficits called a Non Verbal Learning Disorder and

conclude it is AS. The neuropsychologist will put in writing what your son

needs. Try to

get a nueropyschologist that will be part of the IEP evaluation process. This

way your not advoocating alone. This is important.

My daighter has outbursts over homework to and under IEP we have a homework

exemption if stress is high.

Ruth try not to worry what they think because if it is not one thing it is

another like the child is a behavior problem.

504 is weak. I have been in your position. It is good for getting a second set

of books stuff like that. Some schools provide great services under 504. Your

doesn't sound like it. I think you need an expert to advocate for you. I would

spend the money on an MD or neuropysch report. They can not be ignored.

You must be doing something right Ruth to have gotten so far in school under

504.

Pam

[Guest guest]

>

> Can you try to get your son classified under IEP?

Am working on it. We have had many evaluations, just like you describe. He has

finally been referred for another SPED eval, this time, for the first time, with

the Autism Team, and we are having our own Autism eval done alongside (it is

actually already done but don't have report yet). But whatever they do won't

take effect until next school year (if it turns out he gets an IEP, it isn't due

until late May). And he may not get an IEP, as he is very bright and passes his

state tests. I'm trying to pin them down on using appropriate measures and

standards for a high IQ child with disabilities, but we'll see.

> Ruth try not to worry what they think because if it is not one thing it is

another like the child is a behavior problem.

Well, I have to worry about what they think, because if they get too upset or

whatever, they shut down.

> 504 is weak. I have been in your position. It is good for getting a second set

of books stuff like that.

Our school does a lot more than that with 504. Well, on paper, anyway. Getting

the teachers to follow the 504 appears to be another whole issue once you get a

504 written.

I guess I'm already following your advice. Thanks, Pam!

Ruth

[Guest guest]

We are in the same situation, good grades. We had to hire a lawyer,

I had to find one that would help us advocate. We found one

after 3 interviews (and $1500) that would advocate. More money about $1000. If I

didn't have the funds it would have been so painful for me to fight it alone, I

totally stress out over conflict.

I had the experience of years of being ignored and often the

situation escalated. Unfortunately people do not understand

these disorders and trivialize the problems. I was often advised

to give lots of positive feedback about whatever was done that

was right as it occured as a way to emphasis what I wanted.

I tried to do this carefully not to send the message

that everything is OK.

I found if I mention her behavior at home, they pick me dry about how they would

do things. So I try just to say she is not capable of doing work afte school.

This is the truth without getting into details.

I also found that people do not understand the level of anxiety these children

have. They just cannot relate to it.

Still today I find I have to keep my message short, very short

and consistent. I try to keep my message short a few sentences.

This is hard to do because there are so many issues.

My message is " No criticize, reduce tasks or assist to have her keep up, keep

her connected 1:1(not in groups) and facilitate all written work " .

Is this all her issues? No. But I find that we need to keep the message concrete

and short.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

Pam

[Guest guest]

I'm curious as to why he has a 504 and not a IEP. Is it because he doesn't meet

the criteria for an IEP?

>

> Everybody, I always end up alienating my sons teachers. I try different

strategies every year, and it always turns to mud. It is always something

different, although usually related to me being one of those bad parents. How

does one not get put into that bag?

>

> My son doesn't have an IEP, so this is all general ed teachers with no

training in autism. So, I'm put in this position of forever having to try to

explain what my son needs. They ALWAYS take this as my never being happy with

anything, being unreasonable, being a helicopter parent, being a parent who does

nothing, just wanting my kid to get special help so he can get better grades,

being a parent who doesn't care--I know all of you with kids in public school

have heard it all too! Last year when I tried to describe my son's outbursts

about homework, how what happened at school led to that, and my intervention

methods (emphasizing how much of our evening this was taking up and how long it

was taking him to get just simple assignments done)--somehow they twisted this

around to my being an abusive parent!?

>

> All this year, all of my son's teachers have been blatantly not following my

son's 504 Plan. So, what do they expect me to do? When I have asked the 504

coordinator about it, he asks the teachers if they are following it, they say

" yes " . And that is all he has to say about it. Yep, real energetic guy there.

Don't worry, I've kept pushing LOL. Anyway, so all these teachers are mad at ME

because they are not following this 504 plan and I constantly complain. They

are shutting down just like our aspie kids shut down.

>

> So, I've been thinking and thinking about how I can avoid this environment of

everybody pointing fingers and nobody wanting to do anything. I figure the

leadership has to come from me; can't see as it is going to come from anybody at

the school.

>

> I have called a meeting for the 504 Team and all core teachers, which will be

in the middle of April (soonest everybody had a clear schedule). My plan is to

just ask questions and try to get their side of the story, for starters.

>

> Anyway, that is all background. What I really want to know is how other

people get along with their kids teachers in jr/sr high school. I think one

mistake I made was not meeting with ALL the teachers at the beginning of the

year and doing what we are going to be doing at our April 504 meeting--going

through it line by line and making sure everybody is on board and make any

needed changes. Then, I guess I need you need to meet again in the middle of

the year to make sure everything is still okay. I'm thinking about

automatically requesting ALL core teachers come to 504 meetings (they had no

problem with that--don't know how the high school will be) and make sure

EVERYBODY is happy with everything. By default, they only have one of the

teachers at 504 meetings. She is supposed to speak for all teachers and spread

the word afterwards, but that doesn't appear to have ever happened after any of

our meetings.

>

> We just happened to get our roof fixed (from Hurricane Ike) on the same day

they had parent open house, so I missed that. So, I especially needed to hold a

meeting, I guess. I did send my intro letter, which got a great response,

although said great response didn't last long.

>

> The thought has occurred to me that, if they are gossiping with teachers from

last year, maybe I am still supposed to be an abusive parent? Maybe that is why

they are being so stinky? I have to kinda laugh at that, although I suppose I

shouldn't.

>

> Anyway, please give me your thoughts and advice, BTDT.

>

> Ruth

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry Ruth, I posted my question before I read through the rest of the replies.

I am working on the assumption that the teachers are not respecting the 504

because they just don't see your son as having a problem (disability). So with

that assumption I have some thoughts.

1. Do you have a diagnosis? If so, could you get some information from the

doctor that is specific about your son regarding his diagnosis and how the

disorder presents itself. The reason for this thought process is that if the

school (teachers) doesn't " see " the problem they will discredit any information

that you provide on Autism/Aspergers etc as being just a " crazy mom " thing. But

if you have the same information from your doctor regarding YOUR son it will be

harder for them to disregard.

2. Is your son on meds? If he is, the teachers may not be seeing the same

problems that you are seeing at home when the meds are wearing off. If this is

the case I would try to discuss this with them specifically regarding the

medicine and if possible back this up with information from the doctor or

pharmasist. Again, this is to try to show them that what you are trying to tell

them is happening has a scientific reason and is not about you as a parent. If

that didn't work I would consider taking him off the meds (with doctor approval

of course) during school hours so the teachers can get a better " understanding "

of your concerns.

3. I would guess that from your posts that you are working very hard to keep

your son succeeding in school. Such as checking his homework, making sure he

has what he needs when he needs it. Basically trying to do all the things the

504 plan should be doing. This is what I would be doing. But ultimately all

this help is defeating (in a way) the purpose. Most kids are expected by the

time they are in jr/sr high to be able to manage their education themselves.

That should be the goal. The 504 plan should be in place to help your son do

this. If however, they are not following the plan and you are forced to pick up

the slack the teachers are basically getting away with putting the problem on

you not on them. The next (big) step would be to simply stop doing what you are

doing and let the problem build until they figure things out. As a parent this

would be really hard to do but as a last case senario I would concider it as a

way to get their attention.

By the way, what does BTDT stand for?

Vickie

> >

> > Everybody, I always end up alienating my sons teachers. I try different

strategies every year, and it always turns to mud. It is always something

different, although usually related to me being one of those bad parents. How

does one not get put into that bag?

> >

> > My son doesn't have an IEP, so this is all general ed teachers with no

training in autism. So, I'm put in this position of forever having to try to

explain what my son needs. They ALWAYS take this as my never being happy with

anything, being unreasonable, being a helicopter parent, being a parent who does

nothing, just wanting my kid to get special help so he can get better grades,

being a parent who doesn't care--I know all of you with kids in public school

have heard it all too! Last year when I tried to describe my son's outbursts

about homework, how what happened at school led to that, and my intervention

methods (emphasizing how much of our evening this was taking up and how long it

was taking him to get just simple assignments done)--somehow they twisted this

around to my being an abusive parent!?

> >

> > All this year, all of my son's teachers have been blatantly not following my

son's 504 Plan. So, what do they expect me to do? When I have asked the 504

coordinator about it, he asks the teachers if they are following it, they say

" yes " . And that is all he has to say about it. Yep, real energetic guy there.

Don't worry, I've kept pushing LOL. Anyway, so all these teachers are mad at ME

because they are not following this 504 plan and I constantly complain. They

are shutting down just like our aspie kids shut down.

> >

> > So, I've been thinking and thinking about how I can avoid this environment

of everybody pointing fingers and nobody wanting to do anything. I figure the

leadership has to come from me; can't see as it is going to come from anybody at

the school.

> >

> > I have called a meeting for the 504 Team and all core teachers, which will

be in the middle of April (soonest everybody had a clear schedule). My plan is

to just ask questions and try to get their side of the story, for starters.

> >

> > Anyway, that is all background. What I really want to know is how other

people get along with their kids teachers in jr/sr high school. I think one

mistake I made was not meeting with ALL the teachers at the beginning of the

year and doing what we are going to be doing at our April 504 meeting--going

through it line by line and making sure everybody is on board and make any

needed changes. Then, I guess I need you need to meet again in the middle of

the year to make sure everything is still okay. I'm thinking about

automatically requesting ALL core teachers come to 504 meetings (they had no

problem with that--don't know how the high school will be) and make sure

EVERYBODY is happy with everything. By default, they only have one of the

teachers at 504 meetings. She is supposed to speak for all teachers and spread

the word afterwards, but that doesn't appear to have ever happened after any of

our meetings.

> >

> > We just happened to get our roof fixed (from Hurricane Ike) on the same day

they had parent open house, so I missed that. So, I especially needed to hold a

meeting, I guess. I did send my intro letter, which got a great response,

although said great response didn't last long.

> >

> > The thought has occurred to me that, if they are gossiping with teachers

from last year, maybe I am still supposed to be an abusive parent? Maybe that

is why they are being so stinky? I have to kinda laugh at that, although I

suppose I shouldn't.

> >

> > Anyway, please give me your thoughts and advice, BTDT.

> >

> > Ruth

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> and consistent. I try to keep my message short a few sentences.

> This is hard to do because there are so many issues.

>

> My message is " No criticize, reduce tasks or assist to have her keep up, keep

her connected 1:1(not in groups) and facilitate all written work " .

>

> Is this all her issues? No. But I find that we need to keep the message

concrete and short.

Pam, this is very helpful; I will be saving it! Thanks for taking the time!

--Ruth

[Guest guest]

What about having a person participate with you in your discussions as an

advocate? Does your child have a counselor, or can you find an aspergers or

autism specialist to be present with you in these meetings? There are special

ed consultants who do this sort of thing, to deal with just the dynamic you

describe.

It may help on a variety of levels. You can paint the person's presence as an

expert who can help the teachers understand your son's issues and be clear about

what he needs and WHY. Having an objective, non-parent there may make the

teachers hear the information in a different way -- ie, it's not just a

" helicopter parent " who might not be objective, it's a professional. (Yeah,

that's annoying, but it might get the info thru.) Someone else might also be

able to spot the deficiencies and help them understand how they aren't living up

to the 504, and again, coming from someone more objective, it might make them

hear that in a clearer way.

So I'd try that tactic. I understand that local austism organizations often

have people who do that or whom they can recommend to you.

Good luck.

> >

> > Can you try to get your son classified under IEP?

>

> Am working on it. We have had many evaluations, just like you describe. He

has finally been referred for another SPED eval, this time, for the first time,

with the Autism Team, and we are having our own Autism eval done alongside (it

is actually already done but don't have report yet). But whatever they do won't

take effect until next school year (if it turns out he gets an IEP, it isn't due

until late May). And he may not get an IEP, as he is very bright and passes his

state tests. I'm trying to pin them down on using appropriate measures and

standards for a high IQ child with disabilities, but we'll see.

>

> > Ruth try not to worry what they think because if it is not one thing it is

another like the child is a behavior problem.

>

> Well, I have to worry about what they think, because if they get too upset or

whatever, they shut down.

>

> > 504 is weak. I have been in your position. It is good for getting a second

set of books stuff like that.

>

> Our school does a lot more than that with 504. Well, on paper, anyway.

Getting the teachers to follow the 504 appears to be another whole issue once

you get a 504 written.

>

> I guess I'm already following your advice. Thanks, Pam!

>

> Ruth

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I'm curious as to why he has a 504 and not a IEP. Is it because he doesn't

meet the criteria for an IEP?

Supposedly. Our school district has been being very bad little boys and girls.

Long story, like just about all of ours on this list, unfortunately! He is

borderline gifted, so he can do average in grade-level classes despite being

very dysfunctional. So, they try to say he is " successful in the classroom " and

is " accessing the curriculum " . He first started having serious problems in

school at the start of 4th grade. We wasted a couple of years not knowing we

had to request an evaluation in writing; they blew off our verbal requests. The

minute I requested one in writing, in 6th grade, they dropped all the

game-playing and did it. But they did as little as they could get away with.

The school psych confirmed he had atypical behaviors that were consistent with

AS, didn't put it in writing in her report, and didn't request an autism eval

with the school district autism team. She said he was not severe enough--not

that she had any legal or professional authority to make such a judgment call.

Anyway, we decided it would be easier and faster to go ahead and do all his

evaluations ourselves and bring them back to the school (I have great health

insurance that covers everything). So, we came back with our neuropsych eval

and the AS dx at the beginning of 7th grade, and he was given a 504 after the

assistant principal did an extended observation and saw there was more to the

problem than meets the eye. Basically, the school district is trying to solve

the problem at the lowest possible level, and I am just sitting by (rather than

putting in hours and hours every week being my son's special ed teacher like I

did in elementary school) and letting them hang themselves, spending time

explaining what is going on when they ask questions, letting them figure out for

themselves what they need to do since they seem to need to do that. This

actually would all be okay if we had figured out what was wrong and got this

whole process going a long time ago--like kindergarten. But, now we're running

out of time because he is 14. Anyway, so now we progressed to where the

assistant principal/504 coordinator did a consult and asked the 504 team to

refer my son to another IEP eval, this time to be done by the school district

autism team. So, we are finally where we should have been several years ago.

And in the meantime, we have also had done OT, speech and autism evaluations,

which we are asking them to consider. But, because of the grades issue, we

can't depend on this leading anywhere. If he does get an IEP, it won't take

effect until next year, and we have another grading period to get through. And

we don't want to just waste this year. Anyway, we really don't know what to

expect. I can't find anyone in our school district with a HFA/AS child with a

high IQ to go on. I made one of my parent requests for consideration the issue

of how high IQ affects evaluation tools, placement, etc. (amongst other things),

so I'm hoping I can finally pin them down on these issues. They will have to

give us something in writing since I made this request. I gave them some

materials from reputed sources, so they can't claim they have nothing to talk

about.

Hope that answers your curiosity!

Ruth

[Guest guest]

>

> By the way, what does BTDT stand for?

Been there, done that

[Guest guest]

>

> If so, could you get some information from the doctor that is specific about

your son regarding his diagnosis and how the disorder presents itself. The

reason for this thought process is that if the school (teachers) doesn't " see "

the problem they will discredit any information that you provide on

Autism/Aspergers etc as being just a " crazy mom " thing. But if you have the

same information from your doctor regarding YOUR son it will be harder for them

to disregard.

I think I answered most of this on the other post. But I'm curious if anybody

has ever really had this help. This is really common advice that people give.

Personally, I've been dealing with my son for 14 years, and I have found that

people just aren't this interested. I hear of people giving their child's

teachers BOOKS to read--do you really think they read them LOL? I don't think

most of them even bother to read the evaluations coming out of the IEP meetings,

let alone taking the time to read a book. They depend on the SPED staff or

their administrators to paraphrase anything important for them. I have tried to

get people to read things, and I can tell from their responses that they give

the materials a brief glance at best. They certainly don't spend any time

trying to relate whatever it is to real life. I imagine there are exceptions, a

few teachers out there that think autism is interesting--my kid's teachers often

start off that way at the beginning of the year but quickly lose interest.

Anyway, so I'm curious if anybody has ever actually gotten this to work. I like

the idea someone said of getting the reading materials to them at the end of the

school year, if you can find out next year's teachers, so they have all summer

to read.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

I don't envy you, thats for sure. I have not given them any books to read but

when he was first tested and diagnosed I did give the teachers and the spec ed

dept and the pricipal a copy of the Neuropsych test results. I had some very

interesting stuff in it about s specifically.

The only other thing that I have done is to meet with his teachers before school

each year (usually during the prep week before school starts). This is a nice

time to talk because there is no time limit and we can really dig in. What I do

is talk to them mostly about what they can expect to see in terms of problems

and what I, and previous teachers, have done to prevent or solve those problems.

Of course each year new things pop up as it is a new class but I have always

tried to present myself before school starts as a parent that wants to work with

them. So far so good.

This is not to say that things have been perfect. We went through the first

quarter without hearing about any problems only to get his report card and find

that he was struggling accross the board. Definitly didn't thrill me or the

spec ed teacher that we didn't know about the problems. But we have made some

adjustments now and he is doing much better.

He is in forth grade and will be in middle school next year. I am nervous about

the change and am preparing for the worst. So far I have met with the spec ed

director in the middle school and we are in the process of working out a plan

for next year. I am reassured somewhat from that meeting. I do have an IEP in

place. s is quite smart (don't know about gifted) which helps him get by

at about an average level since he has MANY behavior problems. In this regard I

guess that this may be a blessing because the fact that he is on the spectrum is

pretty blatently clear and made getting him in spec ed (IEP) easy.

Vickie

> >

> > If so, could you get some information from the doctor that is specific about

your son regarding his diagnosis and how the disorder presents itself. The

reason for this thought process is that if the school (teachers) doesn't " see "

the problem they will discredit any information that you provide on

Autism/Aspergers etc as being just a " crazy mom " thing. But if you have the

same information from your doctor regarding YOUR son it will be harder for them

to disregard.

>

> I think I answered most of this on the other post. But I'm curious if anybody

has ever really had this help. This is really common advice that people give.

Personally, I've been dealing with my son for 14 years, and I have found that

people just aren't this interested. I hear of people giving their child's

teachers BOOKS to read--do you really think they read them LOL? I don't think

most of them even bother to read the evaluations coming out of the IEP meetings,

let alone taking the time to read a book. They depend on the SPED staff or

their administrators to paraphrase anything important for them. I have tried to

get people to read things, and I can tell from their responses that they give

the materials a brief glance at best. They certainly don't spend any time

trying to relate whatever it is to real life. I imagine there are exceptions, a

few teachers out there that think autism is interesting--my kid's teachers often

start off that way at the beginning of the year but quickly lose interest.

>

> Anyway, so I'm curious if anybody has ever actually gotten this to work. I

like the idea someone said of getting the reading materials to them at the end

of the school year, if you can find out next year's teachers, so they have all

summer to read.

>

> Ruth

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I don't envy you, thats for sure. I have not given them any books to read but

when he was first tested and diagnosed I did give the teachers and the spec ed

dept and the pricipal a copy of the Neuropsych test results. I had some very

interesting stuff in it about s specifically.

Thanks, Vicky! Our neuropsych report was great too; I would recommend that for

anyone. --Ruth

[Guest guest]

>

> What about having a person participate with you in your discussions as an

advocate? Does your child have a counselor, or can you find an aspergers or

autism specialist to be present with you in these meetings? There are special

ed consultants who do this sort of thing, to deal with just the dynamic you

describe.

Thanks! This is 504 though, so special ed doesn't apply. --Ruth

[Guest guest]

Hi Ruth, what is in his 504 Plan?

We had a 504 Plan for my son, now age 20. Don't know if any of what I say will

help, but might trigger an idea or two for you.

's 504 Plan came about due to his OCD and his dysgraphia. This was in

6th grade it began. I didn't get an Aspergers dx for him for school until he

was beginning 9th grade. Now I knew he had some autistic traits but they

weren't, for him, as huge a problem with schoolwork as the other dx. He was

considered gifted so in the advanced type classes.

During the 504 meetings, we had the accommodations/mods needed written into the

Plan but also some things were just discussed. So that might be where I would

say things about him that could relate to the OCD or the Aspie side. Like -

with instructions for work, given too many he may not get it all, what to do,

might need it broken down more; or he may ask questions about it, be patient if

he needs to. Or another -- he's a smart kid and he likes to correct the

teachers; to let me know if this becomes a problem. He also, per previous

teachers, likes to ask questions; but usually they are pertinent/good questions,

can ask too many though; let me know if this becomes a problem. -- So I could

tell them *about him* but nothing specific to things like that were written into

the Plan.

At meetings, I had about 2-3 sheets on OCD that I would bring with copies for

all. I had found a sort of " exercise " about OCD for them to read (about a

paragraph or so) and I handed that out and told them I wold wait while they read

it. (It relates to how OCD can cause problems with reading ability) The other

sheets were where I had put together info (cut & paste) and included a bit of

typing specific to . I highlighted a few things on their copies that I

wanted to make sure they read and went over just some of the highlights that

really pertained to . I didn't want to give them too much to read

themselves (figured they might not bother to).

For problems he was having -- I asked them first if they had ideas about how to

address them. Waited to see what they suggested. Then could state my ideas,

thoughts. Always wanted to sort of give them the lead to go first so they

wouldn't feel I was trying to dominate the meeting (considering I had given them

stuff to do/read too). This was actually 7th grade I began to do this. When

6th grade began and the OCD and the problems, I was at a loss that first half of

the year but they worked with me well.

I talked about how hard it was at home regarding getting the work done. And how

time consuming. And some nights if his OCD was bad, might not get any done. So

we had in the Plan that he could turn in work late with no grade penalty. " How

late " was different for each teacher. But we would try to get *this week's*

work in by the following Monday.

Handing in work -- well, had folders for each class. Work to do and the

finished work went in the folders. That was at home, LOL, if I helped. He

would just stick stuff in books, down in his backpack, anywhere. The teachers

gave a list about every 3 weeks or so of " missing work " and I could search for

it. I also told them that sometimes he had his work there at school. They

could ask him for it and then wait for him to find it.

I always said " thank you " at the meetings, on the phone, etc. And just sort of

" kissed up " to them but I was grateful to most of the teachers, counselors in

middle & high school (not all). But I found saying " thank you for all your

help " did seem to get results.

Just some quick thoughts. It wasn't always smooth, some teachers really care,

others not so much, etc. But they HAVE to follow the 504 Plan that is written.

If they are not, then call a meeting. Talk about your concerns.

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Ruth, what is in his 504 Plan?

>

Hardly any of it is being followed, but here it is:

Adapt assignments by providing:

- shortened assignments by 20% without eliminating skills

- chunk long assignments with concrete due dates

- written checklist for long written assignments

Adapt instructions by providing:

- student writes down daily assignments in bulleted form - read and checked

by teacher daily

- preferential seating at front of class

- choice of 3 different writing prompts - to try to incorporate likes of

student to encourage writing (language arts only)

Adapt materials by providing:

- hard copy/skeleton outline of notes with student effort

- use of graphic organizers or lists

- ability to use word processor on written assignments

Adapt tests:

- Allow more time for tests if student has not completed test by end of class.

> 's 504 Plan came about due to his OCD and his dysgraphia.

Really, my son's 504 is more for his executive dysfunction, slow processing

speed, memory problems, and coordination problems more than the AS too. He

needs accommodations for his communication and social skill deficits, but he

isn't getting them.

> He was considered gifted so in the advanced type classes.

They kicked my son out of all the advanced classes, so I applaud you on managing

that. He's insisting on taking some next year, and I don't know how he is going

to do it if they let him. I don't know if they will let him, as his grades

aren't high enough, although students can self-refer themselves in. He wants to

take Pre-AP English and history, although I'm trying to talk him into at least

just trying one, since he has been out of the advanced classes for a year.

> At meetings, I had about 2-3 sheets on OCD that I would bring with copies for

all. I had found a sort of " exercise " about OCD for them to read (about a

paragraph or so) and I handed that out and told them I wold wait while they read

it. (It relates to how OCD can cause problems with reading ability) The other

sheets were where I had put together info (cut & paste) and included a bit of

typing specific to . I highlighted a few things on their copies that I

wanted to make sure they read and went over just some of the highlights that

really pertained to . I didn't want to give them too much to read

themselves (figured they might not bother to).

I guess this is what I need to do. I'm not sure I have a clue how to sum up my

son's problems like that though. Maybe I could focus on the problems addressed

by the 504 or that I want to get incorporated into the 504 immediately?

> For problems he was having -- I asked them first if they had ideas about how

to address them. Waited to see what they suggested. Then could state my ideas,

thoughts. Always wanted to sort of give them the lead to go first so they

wouldn't feel I was trying to dominate the meeting (considering I had given them

stuff to do/read too).

I like this idea.

> I talked about how hard it was at home regarding getting the work done. And

how time consuming. And some nights if his OCD was bad, might not get any done.

I did this at the start of 7th grade and it had quite an effect. They were

proceeding to blow off his problems, and it stopped them dead in their tracks

when I told them how I often spent 4 hours a night, hours every week, getting

school work done. But then they ended up twisting it around and accusing me of

being an abusive paremt for him to be fussing like this...

> Handing in work -- well, had folders for each class. Work to do and

the finished work went in the folders. That was at home, LOL, if I helped. He

would just stick stuff in books, down in his backpack, anywhere. The teachers

gave a list about every 3 weeks or so of " missing work " and I could search for

it. I also told them that sometimes he had his work there at school. They

could ask him for it and then wait for him to find it.

LOL In retrospect, can you think of a better way? This especially doesn't work

for my son because of his visual processing weaknesses and manual dexterity

weaknesses, along with the aspie issues. If they ask him for his homework,

he'll often tell them he doesn't have it or doesn't know where it is at rather

than deal with finding it.

> I always said " thank you " at the meetings, on the phone, etc. And just sort

of " kissed up " to them but I was grateful to most of the teachers, counselors in

middle & high school (not all). But I found saying " thank you for all your

help " did seem to get results.

I always thank them, but I don't think it makes up for my " demands " . I have

to think of ways to help them feel more appreciated (something that doesn't cost

money, of which I have none).

Thanks--you've given me some food for thought.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

Ruth I had another thought on this subject. When my daughter

was under 504 she was in classes with one teacher. When she

was under IEP she was always in a class with also an In Class Support Teacher.

Many of your 504 accomodations are things the ICS teacher does for us now.

The 504 process does not provide any federal funds to schools so

the teachers do what they can. I am not trying to excuse them.

If you can manage to get your sonn into a class with in class support

teacher in it, you will have a special education teacher in the

classroom. We did manage to get this in place before the IEP

was in place.

Good luck,

Pam

[Guest guest]

>

> Ruth I had another thought on this subject. When my daughter

> was under 504 she was in classes with one teacher. When she

> was under IEP she was always in a class with also an In Class Support Teacher.

Many of your 504 accomodations are things the ICS teacher does for us now.

>

> The 504 process does not provide any federal funds to schools so

> the teachers do what they can. I am not trying to excuse them.

>

> If you can manage to get your sonn into a class with in class support

> teacher in it, you will have a special education teacher in the

> classroom. We did manage to get this in place before the IEP

> was in place.

Thanks, Pam, these are good thoughts. This has made me think of a couple of

things.

One, I can ask at our upcoming 504 meeting how many of his classes have

co-teachers. Since the co-teachers aren't officially assigned to him, I don't

necessarily even know they are there. I just found out last week that his math

class has a SPED co-teacher. She stepped forward and offered to help; another

thing I'm trying to figure out how to take advantage of.

Two, this is definitely something to keep in mind if he does get an IEP. I know

they make use of co-teachers quite a bit in both jr/sr high, so this is

definitely something I shouldn't have to fight too hard for.

It's really helpful for me to know how they used these teachers in your son's

case, so thanks!

Something I can't help wondering about... How do you think they decide where to

put these teachers and the students who need them? I'm afraid they may be

finding ways to be putting classes together of all the poorer students. I don't

want my son put in watered down classes, and I know they have ways of doing it

off the books. I'm pretty sure from what I've seen that my son's math class is

kinda watered down. I don't really care about math because it is not in his

area of interest (he is more of a liberal arts kind of guy), but I wouldn't want

all of his classes being this way. Did you feel like your son got a good solid

college-prep education in the classes where they had co-teachers? I know--I'm

paranoid!

Ruth

[Guest guest]

>

Just wanted to thank everybody for all the help. You gave me some good ideas

and got me started on a plan!

Ruth

[Guest guest]

It is really tough to walk that fine line between being a good advocate and not being overly pushy or obnoxious. I err on the side of being obnoxious. I know, shocking news flash, huh. lol.

If you ask for things that they have to do more work to accomplish, you will make some unhappy. So ask a teacher to do more than she/he is doing means you are asking them to do more work in the same time and at the same pay. You have to deal with people who think all of the things you have listed - from that you want special handling for your kid to if he's gifted, why does he have accommodations.

I guess my point is that you are not going to make friends with most of these people. But also, let's view the situation more realistically. They are ignoring the law and you want them to follow the law. But they won't. And when you press them to do so, they get upset and balk. It isn't you who is causing this bad relationship. I know, you will say "It doesn't matter who causes it. How do I prevent it?" And I will just repeat - you won't prevent some of it. Some of it is out of your hands.

Here is my short list:

Be nice.

Smile.

Praise when you can be sincere.

Take donuts or cookies to the meeting if you want to suck up. lol.

Establish a business type relationship.

Keep data, take data, data is your middle name!

When the information comes from THEM, request data from them in writing.

Let the data do most of your talking whenever possible.

Do not spend too much time discussing personal information.

Some people will get upset no matter how nicely you make a request. You won't always make friends. Make sure your request is necessary and realistic, then ask nicely. If they get upset, realize it's their problem.

Provide information in short spurts of easily digested information.

When people view you as a "helicopter mother" - smile and be proud that you have cared enough to become involved in your child's learning needs. Really, when all is said and done, it's perspective. One person's "helicopter mother" is another person's "informed and involved parent." (Turn that frown upside down, it all hinges on where you are standing...yadda yadda yadda)

Remember that people who criticize you for advocating really do not understand the needs of kids with LD's who are not also cognitively delayed. While this is not helpful, it's just a good thing to remember when you are getting frustrated.

There will be many teachers who balk, don't believe in whatever your kid has, don't intend to cooperate or change how they do things, etc. Start small, be nice but firm and slowly work your way up the food chain. Know in advance that these teachers will not be your friends or friendly. But you have to meet your objective.

Make really bad IEP jokes along the way - like, "If they like me, it means I didn't ask for enough." lol.

Take someone with you to meetings. It really can help to have a friendly face in the crowd.

Make an agenda before every meeting, jotting down all topics and adding tidbits of info to quell arguments or negative remarks. (I can usually guess what they will say to what I ask, so I can then work out my reply in advance. These things can get very predictable. YOU know already the things they are going to say in a negative way. Think of responses in advance and practice saying them out loud until you do it with conviction.

Follow up all meetings with notes of appreciation and (DATA) a short list of things discussed/decided. Make notes for follow up discussions (i.e. "We look forward to hearing from you in two weeks when you have had time to implement this new plan." or whatever)

Expect people to follow through and do not be afraid to ask "Why not?" when they are not.

Most of all, I think I would answer you that you can't always go into this situation and come out having everyone happy. You are wanting people to change how they do things and that is always a big downer, lol. What? But we always do it this way! Especially in a bureaucracy - it's key to keep doing the same thing the same way. I think it's even part of the definition. <g> I think if you follow some of the ideas I have written down and probably you are already doing some of them - you limit the amount of upset you will cause. But there is no way you will eliminate it.

As to what to do when 504 man says "They are following the 504" but they aren't. I would refer to #6,7, and 8 of my list above and I have done that before. I think letting it drag out makes it worse. If they are doing it, have them prove it. Have data showing it isn't happening and look at 504 man with data in your hand and in disbelief as you say, "I wish I could believe that but here are his agenda pages from...blah blah blah..."

As for people who give teachers books to read, lol, I have never done that. Ok, well, I think I might have if you count having specific books in the IEP so everyone had to get the same books and read them. But it was part of the curriculum we were working on. However, I have given short bullet point outlines to people. And yes, one time a teacher obviously refused to read it or believe it or whatever his problem was. Then I did # 14 on the list. And eventually, it got done. I doubt teacher ever really liked me much but I didn't like him much either. So I feel, hey, we are even. <g> But in the end, my kid had his IEP followed. And maybe next time, the teacher will be more open to adapting and accommodating, let's hope.

Roxanna

The government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases:If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.And if it stops moving, subsidize it. Reagan

( ) Secondary school - how to get along with teachers

Everybody, I always end up alienating my sons teachers. I try different strategies every year, and it always turns to mud. It is always something different, although usually related to me being one of those bad parents. How does one not get put into that bag? My son doesn't have an IEP, so this is all general ed teachers with no training in autism. So, I'm put in this position of forever having to try to explain what my son needs. They ALWAYS take this as my never being happy with anything, being unreasonable, being a helicopter parent, being a parent who does nothing, just wanting my kid to get special help so he can get better grades, being a parent who doesn't care--I know all of you with kids in public school have heard it all too! Last year when I tried to describe my son's outbursts about homework, how what happened at school led to that, and my intervention methods (emphasizing how much of our evening this was taking up and how long it was taking him to get just simple assignments done)--somehow they twisted this around to my being an abusive parent!?All this year, all of my son's teachers have been blatantly not following my son's 504 Plan. So, what do they expect me to do? When I have asked the 504 coordinator about it, he asks the teachers if they are following it, they say "yes". And that is all he has to say about it. Yep, real energetic guy there. Don't worry, I've kept pushing LOL. Anyway, so all these teachers are mad at ME because they are not following this 504 plan and I constantly complain. They are shutting down just like our aspie kids shut down.So, I've been thinking and thinking about how I can avoid this environment of everybody pointing fingers and nobody wanting to do anything. I figure the leadership has to come from me; can't see as it is going to come from anybody at the school.I have called a meeting for the 504 Team and all core teachers, which will be in the middle of April (soonest everybody had a clear schedule). My plan is to just ask questions and try to get their side of the story, for starters.Anyway, that is all background. What I really want to know is how other people get along with their kids teachers in jr/sr high school. I think one mistake I made was not meeting with ALL the teachers at the beginning of the year and doing what we are going to be doing at our April 504 meeting--going through it line by line and making sure everybody is on board and make any needed changes. Then, I guess I need you need to meet again in the middle of the year to make sure everything is still okay. I'm thinking about automatically requesting ALL core teachers come to 504 meetings (they had no problem with that--don't know how the high school will be) and make sure EVERYBODY is happy with everything. By default, they only have one of the teachers at 504 meetings. She is supposed to speak for all teachers and spread the word afterwards, but that doesn't appear to have ever happened after any of our meetings.We just happened to get our roof fixed (from Hurricane Ike) on the same day they had parent open house, so I missed that. So, I especially needed to hold a meeting, I guess. I did send my intro letter, which got a great response, although said great response didn't last long. The thought has occurred to me that, if they are gossiping with teachers from last year, maybe I am still supposed to be an abusive parent? Maybe that is why they are being so stinky? I have to kinda laugh at that, although I suppose I shouldn't.Anyway, please give me your thoughts and advice, BTDT.Ruth

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[Guest guest]

>

> Here is my short list:

Thanks, Roxanna, I'm keeping your list. You are right, I'm already doing most

of it. One thing off the top of my head that I'm really bad at--I'm great at

documenting, but lazy about getting it all put together and showing it at

meetings. I get kinda lazy about meeting prep in general--run out of time. A

lot of this stuff, like sending my own notes out to all the participants with my

own summary impressions--I used to do religiously but am getting too exhausted

by the constant fight. So, I just need to encourage myself and get back on the

ball. Anyway, thanks for the great checklist--I needed that!

Ruth

[Guest guest]

Ruth, why would the IEP not take effect until next year? It should start the minute it is signed.

Roxanna

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." ~ Mark Twain

( ) Re: Secondary school - how to get along with teachers

>> I'm curious as to why he has a 504 and not a IEP. Is it because he doesn't meet the criteria for an IEP? Supposedly. Our school district has been being very bad little boys and girls. Long story, like just about all of ours on this list, unfortunately! He is borderline gifted, so he can do average in grade-level classes despite being very dysfunctional. So, they try to say he is "successful in the classroom" and is "accessing the curriculum". He first started having serious problems in school at the start of 4th grade. We wasted a couple of years not knowing we had to request an evaluation in writing; they blew off our verbal requests. The minute I requested one in writing, in 6th grade, they dropped all the game-playing and did it. But they did as little as they could get away with. The school psych confirmed he had atypical behaviors that were consistent with AS, didn't put it in writing in her report, and didn't request an autism eval with the school district autism team. She said he was not severe enough--not that she had any legal or professional authority to make such a judgment call. Anyway, we decided it would be easier and faster to go ahead and do all his evaluations ourselves and bring them back to the school (I have great health insurance that covers everything). So, we came back with our neuropsych eval and the AS dx at the beginning of 7th grade, and he was given a 504 after the assistant principal did an extended observation and saw there was more to the problem than meets the eye. Basically, the school district is trying to solve the problem at the lowest possible level, and I am just sitting by (rather than putting in hours and hours every week being my son's special ed teacher like I did in elementary school) and letting them hang themselves, spending time explaining what is going on when they ask questions, letting them figure out for themselves what they need to do since they seem to need to do that. This actually would all be okay if we had figured out what was wrong and got this whole process going a long time ago--like kindergarten. But, now we're running out of time because he is 14. Anyway, so now we progressed to where the assistant principal/504 coordinator did a consult and asked the 504 team to refer my son to another IEP eval, this time to be done by the school district autism team. So, we are finally where we should have been several years ago. And in the meantime, we have also had done OT, speech and autism evaluations, which we are asking them to consider. But, because of the grades issue, we can't depend on this leading anywhere. If he does get an IEP, it won't take effect until next year, and we have another grading period to get through. And we don't want to just waste this year. Anyway, we really don't know what to expect. I can't find anyone in our school district with a HFA/AS child with a high IQ to go on. I made one of my parent requests for consideration the issue of how high IQ affects evaluation tools, placement, etc. (amongst other things), so I'm hoping I can finally pin them down on these issues. They will have to give us something in writing since I made this request. I gave them some materials from reputed sources, so they can't claim they have nothing to talk about.Hope that answers your curiosity! :)Ruth

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[Guest guest]

I have given people things to read. I am sure some did not read anything I gave them but it shows in later meetings when I say, "This was all outlined in the paper I sent you at the beginning of the year." Then they kind of look silly or uninformed. I don't give them volumnes to read. But I have given bullet point type papers with simple outlines. In addition, the PLOP in the IEP is well written and I add my own thoughts to it. So there is little excuse to not know the basics where my ds is concerned. It's why it's called an "IEP" - Individual. I expect them to make a minimum of effort towards knowing what he needs.

We did once have a teacher who refused to bother with reading anything or following the IEP either. After a meeting where he was rather nasty, I just went over his head and complained to sped that he wasn't following the IEP. They met with him and let him know he was required to follow it. He wasn't the best teacher but he at least did the minimum required. The other thing was my ds was receiving 1-1 time each day with the sped teacher. So she ended up picking up the slack that the teacher were leave hanging. Anytime he wasn't doing his job, she was there to check on it and do it with him. It worked out in the end.

Roxanna

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." ~ Mark Twain

( ) Re: Secondary school - how to get along with teachers

>> If so, could you get some information from the doctor that is specific about your son regarding his diagnosis and how the disorder presents itself. The reason for this thought process is that if the school (teachers) doesn't "see" the problem they will discredit any information that you provide on Autism/Aspergers etc as being just a "crazy mom" thing. But if you have the same information from your doctor regarding YOUR son it will be harder for them to disregard.I think I answered most of this on the other post. But I'm curious if anybody has ever really had this help. This is really common advice that people give. Personally, I've been dealing with my son for 14 years, and I have found that people just aren't this interested. I hear of people giving their child's teachers BOOKS to read--do you really think they read them LOL? I don't think most of them even bother to read the evaluations coming out of the IEP meetings, let alone taking the time to read a book. They depend on the SPED staff or their administrators to paraphrase anything important for them. I have tried to get people to read things, and I can tell from their responses that they give the materials a brief glance at best. They certainly don't spend any time trying to relate whatever it is to real life. I imagine there are exceptions, a few teachers out there that think autism is interesting--my kid's teachers often start off that way at the beginning of the year but quickly lose interest. Anyway, so I'm curious if anybody has ever actually gotten this to work. I like the idea someone said of getting the reading materials to them at the end of the school year, if you can find out next year's teachers, so they have all summer to read.Ruth

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[Guest guest]

So Ruth...what was the decision go for an IEP (I hope). The process can be so slow ...I know my son's IEP is not really finished and the year is just about over...well, maybe it will help him next year.

jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth@...>Subject: ( ) Re: Secondary school - how to get along with teachers Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 3:54 PM

>> Ruth, why would the IEP not take effect until next year? It should start the minute it is signed. Sorry, I wasn't clear. We aren't to that point in the process. The autism team expects their eval report to be finalized around the middle of May, and if we decide to do an IEP, we would probably not get that together for a couple of weeks past that--and school would be out at that point.We met the autism team for the first time yesterday, by the way. After some of the horror stories on these lists, I was nervous, but they seem okay, i.e., not clueless LOL. I am still skeptical on account of our history with "help" from the school district, but we will see. I will believe

it when something different actually happens.For those of you new to our little saga, I have a 14yo with AS that the school district just recently decided to let be evaluated by the school district autism team. It has been a very long, hard road with them refusing to help for so long, they will have to do a LOT to earn anything close to forgiveness. OK, no more ranting LOL.Ruth