Legal Advice Needed Update - Dave's Ramblings 032408

[Guest guest]

First, thank you to the dozen or so folks who responded to my LEGAL

ADVICE NEEDED! post. Your advice was appreciated. My son, , age

11, 6th grade, did go back to school last week after his three day

suspension for grabbing the teacher aide's breasts while in the midst

of a meltdown. We've found out that was having problems all

morning with teachers and other students. We found out that after the

incident with the other student on the playground, went to the

principal's office and then went to the storage room (the school's

quiet room for ), started throwing things around in the

room, shouted about killing the other kid, shouted about wanting to

die, shouted to be left alone, shouted that he wanted to call his dad

(me), ended up slapping the teacher aide when she went into the room,

and then at some point grabbed her and said, " NOW suspend me, expel

me! " (Oh - the room is connected to the gym which was being used -

had other kids and a teacher). The Teacher Aide felt was in no

condition to be granted a trip to the office to phone me. (Um, call

for help and tell that someone was calling me? Wouldn't that

have gotten him to calm down? Experience says YES!)

Anyway, went back to school last week. On Monday went to

the Teacher Aide to apologize. The teacher aide said, " Not happy. "

Not much contact on Tuesday. On Wednesday, was not allowed by

the teacher aide to go to gym or recess. From what I understood from

the principal, was not on the principal's " radar " that day. So

I asked him to inquire why was not allowed gymn or recess.

Because of spring break - Thursday through Monday - he'll look into

the situation on Tuesday.

Now, I think I told the story as objectively as possible. Now for the

subjective side. Okay, 11 year old son grabbed the 30+ year old

teacher aide's breasts. That WAS inappropriate and I agree with the

suspension. But. She and others in the school had warning after

warning on that Tuesday of the incident. Acting up in class. Feisty

with teachers and other students. Getting upset over things that he

usally can handle. Taking himself to the principal's office. Throwing

things in " his " room, yelling about killing the other kid and killing

himself. Requesting his dad. Hmmm. Just my opinion, but DOESN'T THAT

SOUND LIKE THE KID WAS IN THE MIDST OF A MELTDOWN (we've spent 3

years instructing the school about meltdowns)? There were others

around. Why didn't the teacher aide yell for help? Why didn't she

tell my son, " I've got someone going to the school office to call

your dad! " ? Why didn't anyone act BEFORE the breast-grabbing?

is a known quantity at the school. Our discovery of AS came

about because of his behaviors early on - the severe meltdowns, the

weekly and then every other day meltdowns. The teacher aide was hired

to help . She KNOWS .

We did try to contact her to talk the day before went back to

school. We have in the past been able to talk with no problems. She

did not return the phone call. And we did not receive ANY daily

report last week (M,T,W); she is the one who is suppose to write up

those brief email reports.... I'm just sadly disappointed that she

has not taken aside and " told " him what was what and then

forgive him and move on from the incident. She's not even talking

with us... and she did before that day.

I guess we'll see what happens this coming week. Her job is dependent

upon working with . I may have to request an IEP meeting and ask

he up front if she is able to work with or not.

And that reminds me that I need to write up our additions to the

suspension report.

Take care. Thank you to those of you who are further on the journey

than the rest of us. And HANG IN THERE! those of you who are just

beginning the journey. It's the love we have for our children that

will ultimately help them through.

Schweppe

dlschweppe@...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/24/2008 3:11:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dlschweppe@... writes:

I guess we'll see what happens this coming week. Her job is dependent upon working with . I may have to request an IEP meeting and ask he up front if she is able to work with or not.

, I'd have to say that if I were in your situation, I would make a request (via the IEP Review Process) for another assistant. I think this one is a lost cause (due to this incident) and I would be concerned about more damage being done to your son's emotional well being with her being his support person as he moves forward. Pam :)Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave, Sitting here in SHOCK! That sounds just like my son. He was at home more than school. OMG, just the first time I have heard another speak of the same things I have gone thru. Pure frustration. But sounds like there is hope. Dear Lord I need it. Boo hooed earlier! Hoping they get this testing done and I get my son home! I miss him so much. Shirley Schweppe <dlschweppe@...> wrote: First, thank you to the dozen or so folks who

responded to my LEGAL ADVICE NEEDED! post. Your advice was appreciated. My son, , age 11, 6th grade, did go back to school last week after his three day suspension for grabbing the teacher aide's breasts while in the midst of a meltdown. We've found out that was having problems all morning with teachers and other students. We found out that after the incident with the other student on the playground, went to the principal's office and then went to the storage room (the school's quiet room for ), started throwing things around in the room, shouted about killing the other kid, shouted about wanting to die, shouted to be left alone, shouted that he wanted to call his dad (me), ended up slapping the teacher aide when she went into the room, and then at some point grabbed her and said, "NOW suspend me, expel me!" (Oh - the room is connected to the gym which was being used - had other kids and a

teacher). The Teacher Aide felt was in no condition to be granted a trip to the office to phone me. (Um, call for help and tell that someone was calling me? Wouldn't that have gotten him to calm down? Experience says YES!)Anyway, went back to school last week. On Monday went to the Teacher Aide to apologize. The teacher aide said, "Not happy." Not much contact on Tuesday. On Wednesday, was not allowed by the teacher aide to go to gym or recess. From what I understood from the principal, was not on the principal's "radar" that day. So I asked him to inquire why was not allowed gymn or recess. Because of spring break - Thursday through Monday - he'll look into the situation on Tuesday.Now, I think I told the story as objectively as possible. Now for the subjective side. Okay, 11 year old son grabbed the 30+ year old teacher aide's breasts. That WAS inappropriate and I

agree with the suspension. But. She and others in the school had warning after warning on that Tuesday of the incident. Acting up in class. Feisty with teachers and other students. Getting upset over things that he usally can handle. Taking himself to the principal's office. Throwing things in "his" room, yelling about killing the other kid and killing himself. Requesting his dad. Hmmm. Just my opinion, but DOESN'T THAT SOUND LIKE THE KID WAS IN THE MIDST OF A MELTDOWN (we've spent 3 years instructing the school about meltdowns)? There were others around. Why didn't the teacher aide yell for help? Why didn't she tell my son, "I've got someone going to the school office to call your dad!"? Why didn't anyone act BEFORE the breast-grabbing? is a known quantity at the school. Our discovery of AS came about because of his behaviors early on - the severe meltdowns, the weekly and then every other day meltdowns. The

teacher aide was hired to help . She KNOWS .We did try to contact her to talk the day before went back to school. We have in the past been able to talk with no problems. She did not return the phone call. And we did not receive ANY daily report last week (M,T,W); she is the one who is suppose to write up those brief email reports.... I'm just sadly disappointed that she has not taken aside and "told" him what was what and then forgive him and move on from the incident. She's not even talking with us... and she did before that day.I guess we'll see what happens this coming week. Her job is dependent upon working with . I may have to request an IEP meeting and ask he up front if she is able to work with or not.And that reminds me that I need to write up our additions to the suspension report.Take care. Thank you to those of you who are further on the journey than

the rest of us. And HANG IN THERE! those of you who are just beginning the journey. It's the love we have for our children that will ultimately help them through. Schweppedlschweppe

[Guest guest]

Hi , you wrote: I guess we'll see what happens this coming week. Her job is dependent upon working with . I may have to request an IEP meeting and ask he up front if she is able to work with or not. I'm wondering why you feel you need to wait?. I would ask for the IEP and state that - that aid is not trained to work with my son and I want her replaced with someone trained in autism. She didn't use good judgment in an emergency situation and escalated it more. a trained person in autism could of prevented a meltdown because that's what they are trained to do, they will know a meltdown coming before it happens. also, it is important for our children to have recess and gym to release all that overload they face in school each day. by preventing these activities, you are asking for another meltdown. wising you

the best at your meeting Rose Schweppe <dlschweppe@...> wrote: First, thank you to the dozen or so folks who responded to my LEGAL ADVICE NEEDED! post. Your advice was appreciated. My son, , age 11, 6th grade, did go back to school last week after his three day suspension for grabbing the teacher aide's breasts while in the midst of a meltdown. We've found out that was having problems all morning with teachers and other students. We found out that after the

incident with the other student on the playground, went to the principal's office and then went to the storage room (the school's quiet room for ), started throwing things around in the room, shouted about killing the other kid, shouted about wanting to die, shouted to be left alone, shouted that he wanted to call his dad (me), ended up slapping the teacher aide when she went into the room, and then at some point grabbed her and said, "NOW suspend me, expel me!" (Oh - the room is connected to the gym which was being used - had other kids and a teacher). The Teacher Aide felt was in no condition to be granted a trip to the office to phone me. (Um, call for help and tell that someone was calling me? Wouldn't that have gotten him to calm down? Experience says YES!)Anyway, went back to school last week. On Monday went to the Teacher Aide to apologize. The teacher aide said, "Not

happy." Not much contact on Tuesday. On Wednesday, was not allowed by the teacher aide to go to gym or recess. From what I understood from the principal, was not on the principal's "radar" that day. So I asked him to inquire why was not allowed gymn or recess. Because of spring break - Thursday through Monday - he'll look into the situation on Tuesday.Now, I think I told the story as objectively as possible. Now for the subjective side. Okay, 11 year old son grabbed the 30+ year old teacher aide's breasts. That WAS inappropriate and I agree with the suspension. But. She and others in the school had warning after warning on that Tuesday of the incident. Acting up in class. Feisty with teachers and other students. Getting upset over things that he usally can handle. Taking himself to the principal's office. Throwing things in "his" room, yelling about killing the other kid and killing himself.

Requesting his dad. Hmmm. Just my opinion, but DOESN'T THAT SOUND LIKE THE KID WAS IN THE MIDST OF A MELTDOWN (we've spent 3 years instructing the school about meltdowns)? There were others around. Why didn't the teacher aide yell for help? Why didn't she tell my son, "I've got someone going to the school office to call your dad!"? Why didn't anyone act BEFORE the breast-grabbing? is a known quantity at the school. Our discovery of AS came about because of his behaviors early on - the severe meltdowns, the weekly and then every other day meltdowns. The teacher aide was hired to help . She KNOWS .We did try to contact her to talk the day before went back to school. We have in the past been able to talk with no problems. She did not return the phone call. And we did not receive ANY daily report last week (M,T,W); she is the one who is suppose to write up those brief email reports.... I'm

just sadly disappointed that she has not taken aside and "told" him what was what and then forgive him and move on from the incident. She's not even talking with us... and she did before that day.I guess we'll see what happens this coming week. Her job is dependent upon working with . I may have to request an IEP meeting and ask he up front if she is able to work with or not.And that reminds me that I need to write up our additions to the suspension report.Take care. Thank you to those of you who are further on the journey than the rest of us. And HANG IN THERE! those of you who are just beginning the journey. It's the love we have for our children that will ultimately help them through. Schweppedlschweppe

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[Guest guest]

Dave,

I sent you an email and don't know if you rec'd it. Have a meeting

with the Principal, TA, Case Manager and any one else necessary.

First begin by determining if his actions were a " Manifestation of

his Disability " . I beleieve it was! From everything you have written,

your son was only trying to contact you, he was in a meltdown, you

are a safety zone for him. I truly don't understand this TA and her

actions. Has she been trained? I believe she needs to work with

another student and not yours. If she is not willing to

forgive ...then she really doesn't belong working with

children ...especially children with AS. I am angry, hurt, sadden by

what I have read. Stand up for you sons rights! They would not allow

him to call you!

And, as far as keeping him from going out....well I think that is

what he needed. If she needs to teach him not to push so hard then

let it be in another form. Let him go out and burn off his

fustrations, anger or wahtever. Kids need to run and get fresh air.

Ugh!

If you need, do you know of any Advocates? I had to get one for my

son...what a difference! Do what you have to!

And, if this TA is not working well with your son, then you need to

get him a new TA. This TA he has now can do him more harm! then good!

Jan

[Guest guest]

If communication is expected as part of the job, she needs to do that or what good is she? How is it going since you wrote this?

I don't understand some people. The kid is screaming, "I NEED MY DAD" and what do they do? The opposite. This makes sense on what planet? Instead they just let him get worse and worse until he pulls a stunt....then they get mad at him for that. It's crazy. People who work with sped kids should have some common sense about them. I spent a few hours working with my 6 yo friend who is severely autistic on Saturday. He had a meltdown for about 20 minutes while I was there. I got kicked, my hair was pulled and he tried to smack me as well. I just held my ground and waited him out (he likes to bite his hand -seriously bite it - so I was holding it so he couldn't and that's why he was giving me a hard time.) But that's just part of the job. You just have to roll with it or get a different job, IMO. I don't mean to imply people should get beaten up at work! lol. But you use basic common sense and apply your options accordingly. It's not rocket science - just common sense.

You should definitely get a "behavior plan" written down with the "IEP TEAM" so everyone knows what will be done and in what order the next time he starts having problems. Write down what he looks like when is starting to fall apart. Write down phrases he uses when he's getting out of control. Write down the list, in order, of things that need to happen and when they need to happen. For instance, "BEFORE" he gets to the point of no return, someone should have calmed him down in whatever ways he can be calmed. Also, when things were revving up - when there are problems with other kids and he is getting upset, it's time for a walk around the school with the aide and maybe a good talk about relationships, teasing or whatever is happening. I don't know your ds, but you definitely need to have a plan in writing for these people. When we put one together for middle school one year, we had "call parents" on the list and this was regardless of what they thought - it was 1, 2, 3. Do these things in order and if it escalates, go to the next on the list. So calling parents was not optional or held over him. Also, they wanted his gameboy sent to school for reward time and I worried they would use it as a carrot - something that would cause him to melt down. So I wrote that in the plan - at no time could they threaten to take away his gameboy to get him to do something. It's just something I knew would cause problems and I knew they would try. lol.

RoxannaAutism Happens

( ) Legal Advice Needed Update - Dave's Ramblings 032408

First, thank you to the dozen or so folks who responded to my LEGAL ADVICE NEEDED! post. Your advice was appreciated. My son, , age 11, 6th grade, did go back to school last week after his three day suspension for grabbing the teacher aide's breasts while in the midst of a meltdown. We've found out that was having problems all morning with teachers and other students. We found out that after the incident with the other student on the playground, went to the principal's office and then went to the storage room (the school's quiet room for ), started throwing things around in the room, shouted about killing the other kid, shouted about wanting to die, shouted to be left alone, shouted that he wanted to call his dad (me), ended up slapping the teacher aide when she went into the room, and then at some point grabbed her and said, "NOW suspend me, expel me!" (Oh - the room is connected to the gym which was being used - had other kids and a teacher). The Teacher Aide felt was in no condition to be granted a trip to the office to phone me. (Um, call for help and tell that someone was calling me? Wouldn't that have gotten him to calm down? Experience says YES!)Anyway, went back to school last week. On Monday went to the Teacher Aide to apologize. The teacher aide said, "Not happy." Not much contact on Tuesday. On Wednesday, was not allowed by the teacher aide to go to gym or recess. From what I understood from the principal, was not on the principal's "radar" that day. So I asked him to inquire why was not allowed gymn or recess. Because of spring break - Thursday through Monday - he'll look into the situation on Tuesday.Now, I think I told the story as objectively as possible. Now for the subjective side. Okay, 11 year old son grabbed the 30+ year old teacher aide's breasts. That WAS inappropriate and I agree with the suspension. But. She and others in the school had warning after warning on that Tuesday of the incident. Acting up in class. Feisty with teachers and other students. Getting upset over things that he usally can handle. Taking himself to the principal's office. Throwing things in "his" room, yelling about killing the other kid and killing himself. Requesting his dad. Hmmm. Just my opinion, but DOESN'T THAT SOUND LIKE THE KID WAS IN THE MIDST OF A MELTDOWN (we've spent 3 years instructing the school about meltdowns)? There were others around. Why didn't the teacher aide yell for help? Why didn't she tell my son, "I've got someone going to the school office to call your dad!"? Why didn't anyone act BEFORE the breast-grabbing? is a known quantity at the school. Our discovery of AS came about because of his behaviors early on - the severe meltdowns, the weekly and then every other day meltdowns. The teacher aide was hired to help . She KNOWS .We did try to contact her to talk the day before went back to school. We have in the past been able to talk with no problems. She did not return the phone call. And we did not receive ANY daily report last week (M,T,W); she is the one who is suppose to write up those brief email reports.... I'm just sadly disappointed that she has not taken aside and "told" him what was what and then forgive him and move on from the incident. She's not even talking with us... and she did before that day.I guess we'll see what happens this coming week. Her job is dependent upon working with . I may have to request an IEP meeting and ask he up front if she is able to work with or not.And that reminds me that I need to write up our additions to the suspension report.Take care. Thank you to those of you who are further on the journey than the rest of us. And HANG IN THERE! those of you who are just beginning the journey. It's the love we have for our children that will ultimately help them through. Schweppedlschweppe

[Guest guest]

Don't think I've ever posted this to this list. This is our cheat sheet for the

teachers,

although they all have further training, and more detailed info on my son's FBA.

This IS

part of the IEP, though. I'd hate for anyone to be surprised, and worse,

complicate the

situation with their own non-productive reactions.

The " behaviors we've seen in the past " are sort of in order of severity.

---------------------------------------

Meltdown management

During a meltdown, your job is to help him focus. Until his brain can

concentrate on an

action, his body can't do it. The more escalated he is, the more direct,

succinct, and

focused you need to be.

Behaviors we've seen in the past:

Ripping up papers, throwing things, crying, laying down on the ground (shutting

down), hitting himself, kicking things (desk, belongings), yelling, making

threatening

motions with his arms (as if to hit), pushing, shoving, and many other physical

contacts

with both teachers and students.

Over time, identify the signs that he is becoming agitated. Intervene in the

early stages.

Short term goal--get him out of the classroom, or away from others, without a

lot of

drama. If the blue card or a verbal directive doesn't work to get him to leave,

think

damage control.

Take one step at a time. Assume that he'll make physical contact or throw things

once

he's escalated. Key is to prevent him from getting to that stage.

Position yourself so you are not easily a target.

Make your words productive. Avoid saying the phrase " calm down " —it may very well

escalate him. It's ambiguous and a trigger statement for him. You have a

limited number

of words before he's verbally overloaded. Use them wisely.

Tell him exactly what he needs to do to get to the next " safer " step. " Put the

books

down. " " Hands off. " " Step back. " " Sit down. " Clear hand signals or you

modeling the

action yourself, if possible, can help.

It's easier to get others to comply or move or remove potentially thrown objects

yourself.

Others will need to do what they can to help the situation.

If he simply doesn't respond—wait, then simplify your instruction. 5 words down

to one

word. One word down to a hand signal. Plan your next move in case he

continues or

escalates.

Please defend yourself, if necessary. If he is approaching you aggressively,

putting your

open hands up in front of you and saying " ph. Stop. " (forcefully, but not

yelling) may

work alone. If not, your hands are in a position to move his arms away from

making

contact with you.

Write down everything you possibly can afterwards. This is very important and

productive

for all.

----------------

This is for when he is in general ed classrooms, which hasn't been much lately.

When he

is in resource, they can just ask if he wants to go to the Cool Zone and he

will. It's only 6

feet away.

Jackie