Guest guest Posted March 23, 2000 Report Share Posted March 23, 2000 Hey Reid, What comes around goes around......stop feeling guilty about people helping you, when you help so many. Remember how good you felt when you helped them, now others are getting to feel that same good feeling. Vicki, Md >From: rmcmur3194@... > ......we were getting foo baskets for the holidays >.....at first that was hard......i use to be involved with getting the >donations and putting together the baskets and delivering them....never >thought i would be on the recieving end......balked then was told ....hey u >did this for people when u could ....now u need it.....so itook it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Hi! My son usually doesn't want our help but sometimes he may....and when he is doing math ...he gets so fustrated because his father explains it in a completely different way and then he loses it. By then I tell him to cool down and we will try later. I know for a face that your son can have his homework reduced. I am thinking of that for next year. After a whole day in school my son is burnt out. I also know that in high school we have blocks (1 1/2 hour classes)....so the kids only have 4 classes a day. They may have English , Math, Computers and gym. And the other half of the year they will get Science, History, Art and Reading. So, a lot of times the teachers give them an assignment which they can finish in school and go over the next day. And, with only 4 classes ....you tend to get less since you are not taking 7 classes a day like I had. But, the amt. or # of problems can be reduced... Does you son have an IEP. Does he have any friends who could help him with the problems? Can he get a study hall to do his homework in? Jan Janice Rushen "I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope" From: rostevik <rostevik@...>Subject: ( ) Accepting help Date: Wednesday, April 15, 2009, 8:58 AM Hi,I have occasionally posted here before, but I try to follow the discussions as much as I can and have learnt a lot from this group.My son is 15 and completes his 10 years of public school this spring. He will start upper secondary school this autumn. He was diagnosed with AS in June last year. The last couple of years he has had some modifications and services in school, but it has been a struggle all the way.One of my concerns/problems is that it appears to be so difficult for him to accept receiving help. I can offer to help him with homework, but in many cases he rejects that. Often he doesn't do as much as is required, and of course doesn't get as good grades as he could.My initial thought is that he doesn't want my help because that means he has to do more work, which of course for him is negative.It seems like many of you are able to help your kids and that they accept being helped. Do some of you have any comments, thought or advice here?Thanks in advance :-)Rannveig/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Only time any of my sons (3) wanted help, they'd ask. Now if they got a low grade that I saw, then *I* would be asking about it and offering to help or want to look over their work, etc. Usually if any of them asked for help, it was for studying for a test. At age 15, he also might take it a bit " personally " like in the way of criticism that you're offering to help, like you think he can't do it or isn't doing well enough, etc. So he's being defensive and refusing help. He's at that " age " , teen years, independence, they " know what they are doing, parents are in the way, " etc. Accepting help is telling themselves that they need it, and they can be stubborn. (They = teens) They'd much rather have a teacher help them than " mom. " Do you get to see any of his work sometimes? Just thinking that giving him some praise for a while on some good papers, might make him more receptive to your offers if it's the " teen thing " that is having him refuse. One of my sons and I could NEVER do homework together, even when he was in elementary school; well, by 4th or 5th grade, we ended up in arguments. The other 2 sons weren't so hard to work with at the younger ages. But even now with my OCD/Aspie son at age 20 (in college), I know better than to tell him my thoughts/answers as he will NOT write them; example, if he's having to think about what to write on some report, even if I said the PERFECT sentence, he wouldn't use it because " I " thought of it, not him. So I have to be subtle about suggestions. Another thought - out of " curiousity " , ask him what they are studying now, look at his science, math, English...books, ask questions, maybe see if you can remember how to do whatever math he's learning now, etc.; then he'd have to explain it to you or tell you if it was right, you could ask a science question for him to answer.... His teaching YOU, answering questions, might help ease him towards future help from you. Sorry I've no solutions for you! > > Hi, > > I have occasionally posted here before, but I try to follow the discussions as much as I can and have learnt a lot from this group. > > My son is 15 and completes his 10 years of public school this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Jan, He's had an IEP the last half year, but I feel it is not well enough structured. It's not easy to find out what accommodations work for him. I'm worried that we have too little experience to know what is needed when he starts upper secondary school. The way the school is organizing the work is that they give the students a two-week plan containing all the work they should do in that period. It is not divided in what should be done in school and what should be done at home. That is not working well for him, so one of is accommodations is that a teacher goes through the plan with him and specifies what should be done day by day. Academically he should be capable of doing all the work, and it works out quite OK in the subjects he is interested in. But he is not able to put any effort in getting better grades or doing his work " well " . And the subject he has defined as " not interesting " it is almost impossible to have him do at all. He also struggles with assignments like reports from physics experiments or book reports. We have been discussing this with him and his teacher, but I don't feel we have come very much further... He is not willing to let me help him with this reports. Basically he don't want anyone to decide what he should do. He want to follow his own head :-) He has friends, but most often it's the other way round - he helps them... If I sound confused and unstructured, it's probably because I am :-) I don't feel I see this picture clearly at all. Take care, Rannveig/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 One of the problems is that I seldom see any of his school work. He doesn't bring it home, or he doesn't want to show it to me. Probably he's afraid that he would have to do more work. We have also always struggled working together. He is working better with his father. We're divorced and the kids stay every other week with each of us, so when my son is by me, it's only me there to help him. I have also done what you suggest with having him tell me about what he's learning in school. That can work if it's something that he's interested in. He also loves coming to tell me things he finds on the net in the evenings before we go to bed :-) I think the " worst " for him is getting help from me, but I also think it can be difficult for the teachers to help him. He " never " asks for help, so it depends on the teachers being aware of him. He is also very " sensitive " to who he " likes " and not. His attitude towards school is very negative. He finds very much of it extremely boring and can't see the point in many of the subjects. My hope now is that he will have a " fresh start " in a new school this autumn, and that we at least have his diagnosis and can be better prepared than we were when he started in middle school. Hopefully he will have a better motivation to do the work that is required. Take care, Rannveig/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 > > > > One of the problems is that I seldom see any of his school work. He doesn't bring it home, or he doesn't want to show it to me. Probably he's afraid that he would have to do more work. An accommodation I recently got added to my AS son's list is having his teachers send me a report once a week on how things are going, what work he has turned in, what his progress is in his long-term projects, etc. He is in 8th grade and they say this can continue in high school. I realize schools are organized differently, of course. The way they work this is that they put kids in groups with the same set of core teachers, and said teachers all have the same free period every day so they can do things like this in a group. They agreed to do this because I convinced them my son is not ready to work on his own yet, so I need more info to be able to prompt him at home. Anyway, maybe this is something you could ask for? My son has the same problem as yours in the sense he doesn't like to accept help and also many times doesn't know when to ask for help in any case. Ruth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 > > > > > > > > One of the problems is that I seldom see any of his school work. He doesn't bring it home, or he doesn't want to show it to me. Probably he's afraid that he would have to do more work. > > An accommodation I recently got added to my AS son's list is having his teachers send me a report once a week on how things are going, what work he has turned in, what his progress is in his long-term projects, etc. He is in 8th grade and they say this can continue in high school. By the way--they were also willing to have my son meet with his teachers every single day this period to work with him, tutor him, make sure he's working, etc. For various reasons, I thought maybe he could do with less and should if he could. So, we are trying just once a week with the weekly parent report. But if you know your son needs it every day, maybe that is a possiblity too. Ruth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Ruth, Thanks for the input. As this school year is almost over, I will focus most on what needs to be done when he starts upper secondary school in the autumn. At least for me it would have been better with a tighter communication with the teacher. We will have a meeting with his new school during the spring (and probably when school starts again) to discuss what accommodations he would need. I think my son prefers being left alone, and not be " disturbed " in what he's doing. I think he would find it annoying with teachers " around him " all the time. But that's because he prefers doing his own things and not be told what to do. And of course that's not how it is supposed to be in school (or else in life). I think I will begin writing down a list of questions and ideas that we need to discuss with his new school on which accommodations he should have. I really wish we had more experience than just this half year with the IEP... In the end it comes down to him being motivated to do the work that is needed. And being willing to accept help to achieve that. Take care, Rannveig/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 > > I think my son prefers being left alone, and not be " disturbed " in what he's doing. I think he would find it annoying with teachers " around him " all the time. But that's because he prefers doing his own things and not be told what to do. And of course that's not how it is supposed to be in school (or else in life). Trust me, I know what you mean. This is my son also. This is something you can use as a natural motivator at school. Reward him for doing his work on his own by letting him skip a session with whatever teacher was involved. This would serve the double purpose of giving him a chance to see if he CAN work on his own. > I think I will begin writing down a list of questions and ideas that we need to discuss with his new school on which accommodations he should have. I really wish we had more experience than just this half year with the IEP... This is good, but don't wait until next school year to talk to somebody about it. Your current school can apprise you of how they do things at the new school. Someone from the new school may even participate in meetings at your current school to make sure things are meshing with how they do things. We spent a lot of time talking about this at our last meeting and making sure the accommodations were something they would/could do at the high school. And your son's current teachers may have ideas that are helpful; take your list of questions and ideas to them, see what they think, and get a head start on next year. One thing you need to understand about IEPs is that they can be dynamic and long-term. If it isn't working, you can keep calling meetings and work on it. Even if there is only a few weeks, even a month, left in the school year, you can experiment and get it ironed out better. Personally, I know I want to make use of all the time I have. Ruth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 I don't know how helpful this will be for all of you, but I worked it out in our 7th grade IEP that Austin (my son who was diagnosed with AS about 4 years ago now and has ADHD)has his work taken at the end of each class period (No matter what is or is not finished) and the teachers grade the work that is done in class. (He hates to turn in incomplete work, so he's seriously motivated to finish his work in class!) If he shows he is proficient then he doesn't get any homework. If he needs homework then they send a note home in his agenda. I check his agenda daily and a worksheet comes home in a pocket of that agenda either that day or the day after. I don't have to ask him if he needs help this way. It's apparent. If he has homework, he needs help. I sit with him only long enough to show him whatever he needs help with and then leave him to get it done. He doesn't like it if I stand over him or if I have him do the work where I am able to watch him do it. When he's done he brings it to me. I check it, tell him if there is anything he needs to correct, and it goes back in the pocket. THE END This is repeated over and over again thanks to the teachers at his school. If and when he comes to me and asks for help I try to show him I am eager to help and always stop what I am doing, unless I'm elbow deep in poo with my smaller children. This way he doesn't feel like he is interrupting me (I don't think he knows when he is interrupting or not most of the time. He often tells me he just doesn't know when to ask for help without interrupting me so he doesn't ask. If he does interrupt something important I tell him that I will be with him in just a moment, and explain why I couldn't get to him right away after I've finished what every it was that is important. It's quite time consuming initially, but I have seen improvement over the last 2 years that I have been doing this.) I admit, in the past I have been short with Austin because he interrupted me during phone calls that are work involved or that there was nothing I could do to help him at that exact moment in time he wanted me. But I try to not lose my cool too often. My son also has a problem with re direction. If he gets something wrong he doesn't want to be told it's wrong. He will argue his point until you are ready to pull your hair out. Even accepting the fact that he has the wrong answer isn't an issue most of the time, it's that he wants to argue the process in how he came to the answer was right! (This is a real problem for me and the teachers.)It's very time consuming because he stumbles over his thoughts quite a bit and he usually isn't right anyway. Anyone else see this problem? Peyton > > > > I think my son prefers being left alone, and not be " disturbed " in what he's doing. I think he would find it annoying with teachers " around him " all the time. But that's because he prefers doing his own things and not be told what to do. And of course that's not how it is supposed to be in school (or else in life). > > Trust me, I know what you mean. This is my son also. This is something you can use as a natural motivator at school. Reward him for doing his work on his own by letting him skip a session with whatever teacher was involved. This would serve the double purpose of giving him a chance to see if he CAN work on his own. > > > I think I will begin writing down a list of questions and ideas that we need to discuss with his new school on which accommodations he should have. I really wish we had more experience than just this half year with the IEP... > > This is good, but don't wait until next school year to talk to somebody about it. Your current school can apprise you of how they do things at the new school. Someone from the new school may even participate in meetings at your current school to make sure things are meshing with how they do things. We spent a lot of time talking about this at our last meeting and making sure the accommodations were something they would/could do at the high school. And your son's current teachers may have ideas that are helpful; take your list of questions and ideas to them, see what they think, and get a head start on next year. One thing you need to understand about IEPs is that they can be dynamic and long-term. If it isn't working, you can keep calling meetings and work on it. Even if there is only a few weeks, even a month, left in the school year, you can experiment and get it ironed out better. Personally, I know I want to make use of all the time I have. > > Ruth > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 > > My son also has a problem with re direction. If he gets something wrong he doesn't want to be told it's wrong. He will argue his point until you are ready to pull your hair out. Even accepting the fact that he has the wrong answer isn't an issue most of the time, it's that he wants to argue the process in how he came to the answer was right! (This is a real problem for me and the teachers.)It's very time consuming because he stumbles over his thoughts quite a bit and he usually isn't right anyway. Anyone else see this problem? Yes, it is not quite the same but similar with my son, so I know what you mean. My son takes getting problems wrong differently. He sees it as criticism and the person pointing the error out as being arrogant. It seems it is just another way that shows he has difficulty taking perspective. He can't read the emotions/motivations of the other person accurately. We're still working on this, and I can't say as I have an answer. I think all you can do is keep sending him to those social skills training groups so he can keep learning this stuff, and pointing things out yourself as best your can too. I treat arguing like any other bad behavior. I don't know simple arguing like letting him express his opinion--I know you know what I mean--the arguing that is way over the top what other people should have to tolerate. Ruth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 never wants to be told he's wrong either!! He will argue all day about something that is totally unimportant and irrelevant longterm. I keep trying to remind him (and my 10 year old DD) that some things just aren't worth arguing about. It's maddening! lol Anyway, if I try to tell that something is "wrong", he will either continue to argue his point, or get mad. So I try to avoid it unless it's something important (like a fact that will be important as he continues in school). Simple errors aren't worth the battle. We've always had issues with his homework, too. He doesn't want to do it when we ask him to (or anything else, for that matter!) and he will always do the bare minimum, often kicking and screaming, even though he's entirely capable of producing much higher quality work. (He's identified as gifted. His behaviour issues aren't even on his IEP.) I try not to get too worked up about it, since I know there's a lot more to life than good grades, but I don't want to encourage mediocrity either, you know? It's not that he *can't* do better; he just refuses to. Sorry, I think I went a little nuts there. LOL I guess I needed to vent! Parenting is SO tiring some days. I just wanna go hide in my bed under the covers ( ) Re: Accepting help I don't know how helpful this will be for all of you, but I worked it out in our 7th grade IEP that Austin (my son who was diagnosed with AS about 4 years ago now and has ADHD)has his work taken at the end of each class period (No matter what is or is not finished) and the teachers grade the work that is done in class. (He hates to turn in incomplete work, so he's seriously motivated to finish his work in class!) If he shows he is proficient then he doesn't get any homework. If he needs homework then they send a note home in his agenda. I check his agenda daily and a worksheet comes home in a pocket of that agenda either that day or the day after. I don't have to ask him if he needs help this way. It's apparent. If he has homework, he needs help. I sit with him only long enough to show him whatever he needs help with and then leave him to get it done. He doesn't like it if I stand over him or if I have him do the work where I am able to watch him do it. When he's done he brings it to me. I check it, tell him if there is anything he needs to correct, and it goes back in the pocket. THE END This is repeated over and over again thanks to the teachers at his school.If and when he comes to me and asks for help I try to show him I am eager to help and always stop what I am doing, unless I'm elbow deep in poo with my smaller children. This way he doesn't feel like he is interrupting me (I don't think he knows when he is interrupting or not most of the time. He often tells me he just doesn't know when to ask for help without interrupting me so he doesn't ask. If he does interrupt something important I tell him that I will be with him in just a moment, and explain why I couldn't get to him right away after I've finished what every it was that is important. It's quite time consuming initially, but I have seen improvement over the last 2 years that I have been doing this.) I admit, in the past I have been short with Austin because he interrupted me during phone calls that are work involved or that there was nothing I could do to help him at that exact moment in time he wanted me. But I try to not lose my cool too often.My son also has a problem with re direction. If he gets something wrong he doesn't want to be told it's wrong. He will argue his point until you are ready to pull your hair out. Even accepting the fact that he has the wrong answer isn't an issue most of the time, it's that he wants to argue the process in how he came to the answer was right! (This is a real problem for me and the teachers.)It's very time consuming because he stumbles over his thoughts quite a bit and he usually isn't right anyway. Anyone else see this problem?Peyton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 Ruth, > Trust me, I know what you mean. This is my son also. This is something you can use as a natural motivator at school. Reward him for doing his work on his own by letting him skip a session with whatever teacher was involved. This would serve the double purpose of giving him a chance to see if he CAN work on his own. This year they hardly have any normal school days left, only mock exams and exams, starting next week. As the work has been organized in two-week plans with no division between schoolwork and homework, it has been very undefined what should be accomplished during a given period in school. It has also been difficult for us parents to follow up with this way of organizing the work. I don't know too much about how they will organize the work in upper secondary school. > > I think I will begin writing down a list of questions and ideas that we need to discuss with his new school on which accommodations he should have. I really wish we had more experience than just this half year with the IEP... > > This is good, but don't wait until next school year to talk to somebody about it. Your current school can apprise you of how they do things at the new school. Someone from the new school may even participate in meetings at your current school to make sure things are meshing with how they do things. We spent a lot of time talking about this at our last meeting and making sure the accommodations were something they would/could do at the high school. And your son's current teachers may have ideas that are helpful; take your list of questions and ideas to them, see what they think, and get a head start on next year. One thing you need to understand about IEPs is that they can be dynamic and long-term. If it isn't working, you can keep calling meetings and work on it. Even if there is only a few weeks, even a month, left in the school year, you can experiment and get it ironed out better. Personally, I know I want to make use of all the time I have. The process will begin already this spring. We will know which school he will go to during this month (I think). He has been under spec ed in middle school and will be " transferred " to the spec ed for upper secondary school. This process takes place as part of the process. We already visited the two potentials schools before he applied, and we have a good impression of both of them. Both have had students with AS before. So parts of this is already taken care of by " the system " . We will have a meeting with the new school during the spring to plan what needs to be prepared. But to me it seems more and more important that he is willing to accept the help he is offered. That he's willing to/able to do the work that is required, also in the subjects he's not interested in. Take care, Rannveig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 > > I don't know too much about how they will organize the work in upper secondary school. I'm just saying--why not give them a ring and find out? Then you can think about it over the summer (winter--where are you at?). You can prepare your son too. If you think the spring planning session may not be enough, that is. > But to me it seems more and more important that he is willing to accept the help he is offered. That he's willing to/able to do the work that is required, also in the subjects he's not interested in. Isn't this the truth. This has been one of our big challenges too. I have to say, my son was diagnosed late too, and he has gotten better and better at accepting help the more that help becomes more appropriate. I think part of the problem has been people offering " help " both in ways that just didn't work for him or even outright was offensive to him or the help totally wasn't needed since people didn't understand what exactly it was he needed. So, I think things will get better for both our sons as their accommodations get ironed out and better suited to them, even though they are coming so late. I have to hope that! Ruth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Ruth, > I'm just saying--why not give them a ring and find out? Then you can think about it over the summer (winter--where are you at?). You can prepare your son too. If you think the spring planning session may not be enough, that is. Yes, we will do that. I sent an e-mail to his teacher to start the process of gathering experience with the accommodations he has had now. We still don't know for sure which school he will go to in the autumn. I expect to hear that pretty soon. We will have a meeting with them before school ends. There is also a formal process where he is transferred from spec ed for the primary education to the spec ed for secondary education. > > But to me it seems more and more important that he is willing to accept the help he is offered. That he's willing to/able to do the work that is required, also in the subjects he's not interested in. > > Isn't this the truth. This has been one of our big challenges too. I have to say, my son was diagnosed late too, and he has gotten better and better at accepting help the more that help becomes more appropriate. I think part of the problem has been people offering " help " both in ways that just didn't work for him or even outright was offensive to him or the help totally wasn't needed since people didn't understand what exactly it was he needed. So, I think things will get better for both our sons as their accommodations get ironed out and better suited to them, even though they are coming so late. I have to hope that! I think the crucial point here is that he actually is *motivated* to do the work. As long as he really doesn't want to do it, he is also not willing to accept help to accomplish it... If it is something he is motivated to do, he also accepts help doing it. What also not helps is that he has been quite depressed this spring. We had an appointment with the doctor who has prescribed melatonin for him last Monday. She tested him for depression, and he scored " positive " for depression. He has been much worse than now, so at least I know my assumption was correct. Rannveig/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Ruth, I wrote a reply to this post earlier today, but it seems to have " vanished " . I hope this is not a double post. > I'm just saying--why not give them a ring and find out? Then you can think about it over the summer (winter--where are you at?). You can prepare your son too. If you think the spring planning session may not be enough, that is. Yes, we will do that. We still don't know which of the two possible schools he will go to. I contacted his teacher to hear her experience with the accommodations he has had this year, so we will start the process. We will have a meeting with the school before the year ends. And there is also a formal process of transferring him from spec ed for the primary education to spec ed for the secondary education. That is partly done when he applied earlier this year. > > But to me it seems more and more important that he is willing to accept the help he is offered. That he's willing to/able to do the work that is required, also in the subjects he's not interested in. > > Isn't this the truth. This has been one of our big challenges too. I have to say, my son was diagnosed late too, and he has gotten better and better at accepting help the more that help becomes more appropriate. I think part of the problem has been people offering " help " both in ways that just didn't work for him or even outright was offensive to him or the help totally wasn't needed since people didn't understand what exactly it was he needed. So, I think things will get better for both our sons as their accommodations get ironed out and better suited to them, even though they are coming so late. I have to hope that! What I see as the crucial point here is that he actually *wants* to do the work. If not, it's very hard to help him. As soon as he is motivated to do something, he is also motivated to accept help. I still struggle to actually *understand* what his problems are, and thus it's not so easy to see the solutions, either. To complicate things further we had an appointment with the doctor who prescribed Melatonin to him earlier this winter, and she confirmed my assumption that he has a depression. She tested him and he scored " positive " for depression. He is much " better " now than earlier, more active and not so indifferent to everything. Rannveig/. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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