Re: perception and aspergers

[Guest guest]

Oh you are doing well with you daughter...wow...what great ideas...I am going to try them...and you are 100% correct...it may not stop them at this time...but eventually after many, many, many times they may connect. My son throws paper and crumples it and shouts when it become too confusing and overwhelming...wow...I love it...and I am going to try to do as you do...thanks

It is a good sign that your daughter wants to socialize...but let me tell you...these girls in 7th grade are NASTY...you know that song...Nasty Girls...that's them...so be careful ...especially as to who she seeks as a friend...

You are right ...I wish there was a special school that knew how to work with our kids.

Jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: susanonderko <susanonderko@...>Subject: ( ) Re: perception and aspergers Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 8:44 AM

My daughter is 11 and very similar. I have had some luck teaching emotional control. My daughter's triggersare very predictable. I ask her are you going to throw papers around if this get hard? She will think that is silly. But it is a likely response. Then I say if it get's hard just get up and take a break.This has some impact on insight I think. This is helping herto understand her own triggers. But she still throws stuff around. I do feel this is having some impact. I also ask herto look around and does she see others kids acting like she is (say she is angry to wait). This doesn't stop her but it again some insight into how others are acting. On social perceptions ...I think this is very hard. The girls in middle school age are not all very nice. And there is such a need on this agegroup to fit in and not associate with people who don't fit in.But even at home my daughter's perceptions of

family life arenegatively perceived. She does seem to listen when I tell her she is looking at things very negatively and explain an alternative view. But it is like having tennis balls thrown at me fast and furiously it's hard to keep up. I hope someone has some ideas for us on this. I could see this thinking style lead to depression.On the positive side there is an emerging want to socialize in my daughter. This is great. But she is so frustrated by it being so difficult to fit in and act approriately. If only there was a very supportive place for our daughtersto grow in. it would take a very very supportive school.Pam

[Guest guest]

Why she can't talk and express herself instead of acting out is because autism is a communication disorder. It's like a person who is paralyzed and can't move their legs - well, they have legs. They just can't make them work right. So she has the ability to speak and she has feelings, she is just not able to make them work right.

It might help if you think of her behaviors as her only avenue to self-expression. She is angry and doesn't know how to tell anyone or solve the problem, so she physically acts out. She perceives things differently, which is part of having HFA/AS, but doesn't know how to ask for clarification, how to think about the situation in other ways, etc.

Someone needs to work with her and help her learn how to turn her feelings into words or deal with them in helpful ways vs. angry ways. She needs to learn ways to take perspective and ask for clarification, etc. There are a number of ideas that can work, depending on her needs. Talk to a ST and an autism specialist to design ways that work for her.

Roxanna

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." ~ Mark Twain

( ) perception and aspergers

well, sort of update. decided to leave my daughter in the school. she actualy was in the meeting we had today and when asking her a question, upon giving her answer, the teacher then would tell her side. example::can you move my desk...why...cause the kids i sit with don't do any work (came out it was a group thing my daughter was talking about not individual work) the teacher then explained how much my daughter helps her in class by "teaching" the other kids who don't know the work like she does. my daughters perception? that the kids just wanted her to do all the work!there were other examples....my question is....how on earth do you understand what she is perceiving if she wont tell you what she is feeling because she won't verbalize it just act upon? like slamming doors or screaming or etc.yes she can talk, just now verbalize feelings in words.her iq at 4 was 126, she is 12 now, don't know what it is now. so i am at an utter loss here..........maybe i need to start all over learning about aspergers?maybe i don't know what i thought i knew?julie

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[Guest guest]

To support some of what Roxanna is saying (not that she needs it!), as my son (Dylan, 12, Aspergers) has progressed through the years, I now realize there were so many behaviors along the way that I recognize now as his way of communicating with me. Even to this day, when he's anxious, he makes all sorts of sounds. Sometimes I can help him by asking some pointed questions like "What's going on, Dylan? Why are you acting like that?" and he'll be able to identify himself as being anxious. A lot of the time though, I feel like it's his way of working out the anxiety and I just try to step back.

Here's my comparison of an NT child and my son with Aspergers. Say it's time to turn off the television but neither child wants to. My 7-yr-old NT daughter says..."I don't want to turn off the TV now. I'm watching a show!" If Dylan was in the same situation, he'd probably feel the exact same way but instead of words coming out, I hear him making sounds like smacking noises with his mouth (that's our latest!) or "bah, bah, bah, bah..." loudly. He's feeling the same thing was feeling but she communicates how she's feeling to me with words. I'm working on Dylan doing the same thing, but intuitively the way he deals with frustration/anxiety is odd noises w/ or w/out moving his body around in weird ways. Both are communicating, one is just much clearer (and less annoying!) than the other. And the NT response is much more socially acceptable too.

"Over-optimism is waiting for you ship to come in when you haven't sent one out."

From: Roxanna <madideas@...> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:00:45 AMSubject: Re: ( ) perception and aspergers

Why she can't talk and express herself instead of acting out is because autism is a communication disorder. It's like a person who is paralyzed and can't move their legs - well, they have legs. They just can't make them work right. So she has the ability to speak and she has feelings, she is just not able to make them work right.

It might help if you think of her behaviors as her only avenue to self-expression. She is angry and doesn't know how to tell anyone or solve the problem, so she physically acts out. She perceives things differently, which is part of having HFA/AS, but doesn't know how to ask for clarification, how to think about the situation in other ways, etc.

Someone needs to work with her and help her learn how to turn her feelings into words or deal with them in helpful ways vs. angry ways. She needs to learn ways to take perspective and ask for clarification, etc. There are a number of ideas that can work, depending on her needs. Talk to a ST and an autism specialist to design ways that work for her.

Roxanna

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." ~ Mark Twain

( ) perception and aspergers

well, sort of update. decided to leave my daughter in the school. she actualy was in the meeting we had today and when asking her a question, upon giving her answer, the teacher then would tell her side. example::can you move my desk...why.. .cause the kids i sit with don't do any work (came out it was a group thing my daughter was talking about not individual work) the teacher then explained how much my daughter helps her in class by "teaching" the other kids who don't know the work like she does. my daughters perception? that the kids just wanted her to do all the work!there were other examples....my question is....how on earth do you understand what she is perceiving if she wont tell you what she is feeling because she won't verbalize it just act upon? like slamming doors or screaming or etc.yes she can talk, just now verbalize feelings in words.her iq at 4 was 126, she is 12 now, don't know what it is now. so i am at an utter loss

here........ ..maybe i need to start all over learning about aspergers?maybe i don't know what i thought i knew?julie

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[Guest guest]

>

> Here's my comparison of an NT child and my son with Aspergers.� Say it's

time to turn off the television but neither child wants to.� My 7-yr-old NT

daughter says... " I don't want to turn off the TV�now.� I'm watching a show! "

If Dylan was in the same situation, he'd probably feel the exact same way but

instead of words coming out, I�hear him making sounds like smacking noises

with his mouth (that's our latest!) or " bah, bah, bah, bah... " loudly.� He's

feeling the same thing was feeling but she�communicates how she's

feeling to me with words.� I'm working on Dylan doing the same thing, but

intuitively the way he deals with frustration/anxiety is odd noises�w/ or

w/out moving his body�around in weird ways.� Both are communicating, one is

just much clearer (and less annoying!) than the other.� And the NT response is

much more socially acceptable too.

Yes! And here's another one. If my kids don't like a decision of mine... My

NT child will protest " But that's not fair! " and insist I listen to his

arguments ad nauseum LOL. My AS child will blow up with something like " You're

so stupid! " , if he really disagrees he'll go on about all the ways I'm stupid,

and he can't necessarily do any problem-solving to figure out how discuss the

problem and come to a solution that is better for him. But I think these are

very teachable things. It just takes time to get past all the emoting and takes

a lot more practice because of same. I think AS kids don't think very well on

their feet, so to speak, so they have to be a lot more ready for situations.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

Ruth,

How TRUE!!! Now my son will have a fit...have a meltdown...turn angry. Do you think that is part of it...or is it as my friends with Nts say...he's spoiled.

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth@...>Subject: Re: ( ) perception and aspergers Date: Thursday, April 23, 2009, 11:00 AM

>> Here's my comparison of an NT child and my son with Aspergers.� Say it's time to turn off the television but neither child wants to.� My 7-yr-old NT daughter says..."I don't want to turn off the TV�now.� I'm watching a show!" If Dylan was in the same situation, he'd probably feel the exact same way but instead of words coming out, I�hear him making sounds like smacking noises with his mouth (that's our latest!) or "bah, bah, bah, bah..." loudly.� He's feeling the same thing was feeling but she�communicates how she's feeling to me with words.� I'm working on Dylan doing the same thing, but intuitively the way he deals with

frustration/ anxiety is odd noises�w/ or w/out moving his body�around in weird ways.� Both are communicating, one is just much clearer (and less annoying!) than the other.� And the NT response is much more socially acceptable too.Yes! And here's another one. If my kids don't like a decision of mine... My NT child will protest "But that's not fair!" and insist I listen to his arguments ad nauseum LOL. My AS child will blow up with something like "You're so stupid!", if he really disagrees he'll go on about all the ways I'm stupid, and he can't necessarily do any problem-solving to figure out how discuss the problem and come to a solution that is better for him. But I think these are very teachable things. It just takes time to get past all the emoting and takes a lot more practice because of same. I think AS kids don't think very well on their feet, so to speak, so they have to be a lot more ready for situations.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

You nailed it on the head...Perception that is it and communication...they don't know how to talk about it and/or deal with it. My son cracks his knuckles, necks and whatever he can when he is stress, anxious or angry and can't communicate. He slammed his locker the other day or slammed his books ..because he can communicate his feeling.....thanks...I am taking this to the next meeting.....

Jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: Roxanna <madideas@...>Subject: Re: ( ) perception and aspergers Date: Thursday, April 23, 2009, 9:00 AM

Why she can't talk and express herself instead of acting out is because autism is a communication disorder. It's like a person who is paralyzed and can't move their legs - well, they have legs. They just can't make them work right. So she has the ability to speak and she has feelings, she is just not able to make them work right.

It might help if you think of her behaviors as her only avenue to self-expression. She is angry and doesn't know how to tell anyone or solve the problem, so she physically acts out. She perceives things differently, which is part of having HFA/AS, but doesn't know how to ask for clarification, how to think about the situation in other ways, etc.

Someone needs to work with her and help her learn how to turn her feelings into words or deal with them in helpful ways vs. angry ways. She needs to learn ways to take perspective and ask for clarification, etc. There are a number of ideas that can work, depending on her needs. Talk to a ST and an autism specialist to design ways that work for her.

Roxanna

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." ~ Mark Twain

( ) perception and aspergers

well, sort of update. decided to leave my daughter in the school. she actualy was in the meeting we had today and when asking her a question, upon giving her answer, the teacher then would tell her side. example::can you move my desk...why.. .cause the kids i sit with don't do any work (came out it was a group thing my daughter was talking about not individual work) the teacher then explained how much my daughter helps her in class by "teaching" the other kids who don't know the work like she does. my daughters perception? that the kids just wanted her to do all the work!there were other examples....my question is....how on earth do you understand what she is perceiving if she wont tell you what she is feeling because she won't verbalize it just act upon? like slamming doors or screaming or etc.yes she can talk, just now verbalize feelings in words.her iq at 4 was 126, she is 12 now, don't know what it is now. so i am at an utter loss

here........ ..maybe i need to start all over learning about aspergers?maybe i don't know what i thought i knew?julie

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.45/2045 - Release Date: 04/07/09 06:41:00

[Guest guest]

>

> Ruth,

>  

> How TRUE!!! Now my son will have a fit...have a meltdown...turn angry.  Do you

think that is part of it...or is it as my friends with Nts say...he's spoiled.

My understanding from my readings and from the professionals we talk to is that

the rude outbursts are part of AS. Lots of things going on. Lack of ability to

take perspective or " read " people means they can't fix fault in the right place.

It is called attribution, if you are interested in the technical term. The

weak working memory also leads to problems in sequencing that confuses their

sense of cause and effect--I think somebody else mentioned that too.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

My son blurts things out sometimes too when he's frustrated which seems somewhat tied to his Aspergers in terms of what's coming out of his mouth. But I hold him accountable if he calls me a name in the process. I might not give him a severe consequence, but I do bring it to his attention that he can't say I'm "stupid" or "dumb" or call what I'm telling him to do "stupid" or "dumb" because it's disrespectful. But I give him some alternatives like "that makes me so mad!" or "I really don't like that!" or something similar so he knows it's not that he can't have a reaction or even blurt something out, he just needs to watch what he says. If I didn't do this, especially with his age, I know I'd start hearing curse words flyin' at me at some point down the road.

"Over-optimism is waiting for you ship to come in when you haven't sent one out."

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth@...> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 9:15:46 AMSubject: Re: ( ) perception and aspergers

>> Ruth,> > How TRUE!!! Now my son will have a fit...have a meltdown...turn angry. Do you think that is part of it...or is it as my friends with Nts say...he's spoiled.My understanding from my readings and from the professionals we talk to is that the rude outbursts are part of AS. Lots of things going on. Lack of ability to take perspective or "read" people means they can't fix fault in the right place. It is called attribution, if you are interested in the technical term. The weak working memory also leads to problems in sequencing that confuses their sense of cause and effect--I think somebody else mentioned that too.Ruth

[Guest guest]

Right on...I agree...now when I send my son to his room and I hear him say "I hate you" or "you are the worst mom in the world"....I let him...because he is in the privacy of his room. But if we were in public or in the kitchen ...I don't let him talk like that nor do I let him curse. I know he curses....outside...with all the kids...but there is NO cursing in my house. And, I do as you do...tell him "you can not act like that or say "You are dumb or stupid" becuase it is RUDE and DISRESPECTFUl just as rolling the eyes are. So I guess we are on the same wave length...and I don't punish him for those things either...excpet if he did it in school....but the school has already "disciplined him" ...I just go into why he can't act like that and what to do in place of it. I tell him to use the "I" statements. I feel angry , I feel sad, I feel

you are yelling at me, I feel you are picking on me, I feel this assignment is to hard...etc.

Jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: MacAllister <smacalli@...>Subject: Re: ( ) perception and aspergers Date: Saturday, April 25, 2009, 10:24 AM

My son blurts things out sometimes too when he's frustrated which seems somewhat tied to his Aspergers in terms of what's coming out of his mouth. But I hold him accountable if he calls me a name in the process. I might not give him a severe consequence, but I do bring it to his attention that he can't say I'm "stupid" or "dumb" or call what I'm telling him to do "stupid" or "dumb" because it's disrespectful. But I give him some alternatives like "that makes me so mad!" or "I really don't like that!" or something similar so he knows it's not that he can't have a reaction or even blurt something out, he just needs to watch what he says. If I didn't do this, especially with his age, I know I'd start hearing curse words flyin' at me at some point down the road.

"Over-optimism is waiting for you ship to come in when you haven't sent one out."

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth (DOT) com> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 9:15:46 AMSubject: Re: ( ) perception and aspergers

>> Ruth,> > How TRUE!!! Now my son will have a fit...have a meltdown...turn angry. Do you think that is part of it...or is it as my friends with Nts say...he's spoiled.My understanding from my readings and from the professionals we talk to is that the rude outbursts are part of AS. Lots of things going on. Lack of ability to take perspective or "read" people means they can't fix fault in the right place. It is called attribution, if you are interested in the technical term. The weak working memory also leads to problems in sequencing that confuses their sense of cause and effect--I think somebody else mentioned that

too.Ruth

[Guest guest]

That how I believe ...and what I thought...but oh NO...I have spoiled him etc. I don't want their opinions or help any more because they JUST don't get it. And, I am tired of having them make me feel ROTTEN...like a rotten mother. They are trying to help me be less depressed but in reality they depress me more....their eyes are closed as well as their ears...they don't know all the stuff we do...maybe i'll read some of it to them one day.

But then again, why waste my time.

jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth@...>Subject: Re: ( ) perception and aspergers Date: Saturday, April 25, 2009, 10:15 AM

>> Ruth,> > How TRUE!!! Now my son will have a fit...have a meltdown...turn angry. Do you think that is part of it...or is it as my friends with Nts say...he's spoiled.My understanding from my readings and from the professionals we talk to is that the rude outbursts are part of AS. Lots of things going on. Lack of ability to take perspective or "read" people means they can't fix fault in the right place. It is called attribution, if you are interested in the technical term. The weak working memory also leads to problems in sequencing that confuses their sense of cause and effect--I think somebody else mentioned that

too.Ruth

[Guest guest]

Good for you, Jan!

"Over-optimism is waiting for you ship to come in when you haven't sent one out."

From: rushen janice <jrushen@...> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 9:54:27 AMSubject: Re: ( ) perception and aspergers

Right on...I agree...now when I send my son to his room and I hear him say "I hate you" or "you are the worst mom in the world"....I let him...because he is in the privacy of his room. But if we were in public or in the kitchen ...I don't let him talk like that nor do I let him curse. I know he curses....outside. ..with all the kids...but there is NO cursing in my house. And, I do as you do...tell him "you can not act like that or say "You are dumb or stupid" becuase it is RUDE and DISRESPECTFUl just as rolling the eyes are. So I guess we are on the same wave length...and I don't punish him for those things either...excpet if he did it in school....but the school has already "disciplined him" ...I just go into why he can't act like that and what to do in place of it. I tell him to use the "I" statements. I feel angry , I feel sad, I feel you are yelling at me, I feel you are picking on me, I feel this assignment is to

hard...etc.

Jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: MacAllister <smacalli (DOT) com>Subject: Re: ( ) perception and aspergers Date: Saturday, April 25, 2009, 10:24 AM

My son blurts things out sometimes too when he's frustrated which seems somewhat tied to his Aspergers in terms of what's coming out of his mouth. But I hold him accountable if he calls me a name in the process. I might not give him a severe consequence, but I do bring it to his attention that he can't say I'm "stupid" or "dumb" or call what I'm telling him to do "stupid" or "dumb" because it's disrespectful. But I give him some alternatives like "that makes me so mad!" or "I really don't like that!" or something similar so he knows it's not that he can't have a reaction or even blurt something out, he just needs to watch what he says. If I didn't do this, especially with his age, I know I'd start hearing curse words flyin' at me at some point down the road.

"Over-optimism is waiting for you ship to come in when you haven't sent one out."

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth (DOT) com> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 9:15:46 AMSubject: Re: ( ) perception and aspergers

>> Ruth,> > How TRUE!!! Now my son will have a fit...have a meltdown...turn angry. Do you think that is part of it...or is it as my friends with Nts say...he's spoiled.My understanding from my readings and from the professionals we talk to is that the rude outbursts are part of AS. Lots of things going on. Lack of ability to take perspective or "read" people means they can't fix fault in the right place. It is called attribution, if you are interested in the technical term. The weak working memory also leads to problems in sequencing that confuses their sense of cause and effect--I think somebody else mentioned that

too.Ruth