RE: Re: Unsure about new medication. Several questions.

[Guest guest]

I would not jump to it being bi-polar; Our children are venting this way to tell you, it is bigger than me, and I need help.

Our son does not have bi-polar, the psychiatrist, me, nor the professionals on our huge team believe it is that.

I agree that ADHD medications can help some things.

If children are teasing, etc., this may also be worth just simply looking in to anti-anxiety medications first, like buspar, THEN depression (not bi-polar).Our children cannot handle all the teasing, even if it is supposed to be age appopriate and perhaps even normal-----they just don't get it nor see the humor as they are such literally beings!!

Bullying can ruin anyone-------I would consider having the doctor address possible anxiety NEXT, keeping the ADHD medication; I would certainly do a sensory diet, if you do not already (to meet those sensory needs / running / having to meet needs that he needs met).............if he is not better / showing some improvements on those three things (Anti-anxiety medication, ADHD medication, sensory diet after about 2 months, I would then consider adding an anti-depressant to his 'cocktail'. Our sons both started doing what you reported, and we thought it was depression, and it was actually severe anxiety (they were hiding, vomitting, having migraines, many other things.). I would have play therapy (depending up the child's age) or excellent therapy at least weekly for right now. Make sure the child knows how to identify feelings (happy, sad, etc.) And, how to read other people (as our children all have to learn that). And, I would do all you can to learn about the child, and keep changing things up, ensuring you are doing all you can, understanding and perhaps responding differently to meet the child's needs.

Tantrum for 30 minutes? Is that all? My sons have had 2-4 hour ones for years prior to medicating them, so I don't get too worked up about 30 minutes, personally. I would suggest you say nothing in those thirty minutes though, and your only interaction AT ALL be if you need to keep the child safe / does something dangerous (which is NOT necessarily throwing something at the wall (unless it can shatter and hurt the child)............the less interaction you give, the better for both of you.

Here is a novel concept that just happened upon me, what if your son is tantrumming today because he feels great, and is not used to that, so he is reacting because he is different than he knows? Who knows what goes on inside their brilliant minds but I just wonder if that plays a role, too. Just don't give up yet, and hang in there.

Ruthie

From: pjdxxxwa@...Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 20:43:21 +0000Subject: ( ) Re: Unsure about new medication. Several questions.

This drug is a stimulant. Stimulants are not going to help a child with bi-polar. They are used typially for ADHD. If the child has ADHD you should see improvement right away if the dosage is correct for the weight. However, if you really believe your child is bipolar and not ADHD (please google both conditions related to children - who will present differently from adults) go to another doctor for a second opinion...preferably a psychiatrist who specializes in children. Here is the FFDA.gov informatoin on Metadate:http://www.fda.gov/Cder/Offices/ODS/MG/methylphenidate_MetaXRMG.pdfGive teh PDF time to load. You need to read this.Dee ><))))*> (RN)>> My son just started taking metadate cd yesterday for ADHD. He is only taking 10 MG once a day. His teacher, home based counselor, and I believe he is bipolar. How long does it normally take for the medicine to make an improvement? Will we have to wait until the dosage is increased before that will happen or wait until it has been in his system a while? So far he is still every bit as hyper. The only difference I see is in his mood and that seems worse. Yesterday he threw more tantrums than he has lately and one crying spell lasted at least a half hour. Today he threw a tantrum that was more aggressive but didn't really last long. I made him get off my computer to do some work on paper but he yelled "NO", started fighting me so he could stay in my room, calling me names, saying I'm stupid and a dummy, and slamming his head into the wall numerous times. Shortly after that he started crying saying he was sorry and now he is back to running from one end of> the house to the other. I don't know if this morning and yesterday is the result of the medicine or if he would have had these behaviors anyway. Any help will be appreciated!> Thanks! >

[Guest guest]

His birth mother is bipolar, his home based counselor who comes to the house for 1 1/2 hours every Monday, his teacher who has been teaching a self contained classroom with autistic, AS, bi-polar, and kids with traumatic brain injury for years, along with a developmental pediatrician believe it is bipolar. The dr didn't want our son having that as a label in his records at such a young age. My son does not get bullied at school. We live in a small town that unfortunately has a larger than average number of students with autism spectrum disorders. I grew up with an autistic brother, raised an ADHD son along with a bipolar daughter and a depressed/suicidal daughter. The only one that believes my six year old is ADHD

is a dr that spent a total of one hour and twenty minutes with him. We had him on the ADHD med for two days and it was horrible. He screamed and cried all day both days, became very physical, more defiant, had bad dreams, slammed his head in the wall and tried to put his head through the window. His dr had us take him off immediately. He goes to see a different specialist in a few days. Hopefully everything will get straightened out.

( ) Re: Unsure about new medication. Several questions.

This drug is a stimulant. Stimulants are not going to help a child with bi-polar. They are used typially for ADHD. If the child has ADHD you should see improvement right away if the dosage is correct for the weight. However, if you really believe your child is bipolar and not ADHD (please google both conditions related to children - who will present differently from adults) go to another doctor for a second opinion...preferabl y a psychiatrist who specializes in children. Here is the FFDA.gov informatoin on Metadate:http://www.fda. gov/Cder/ Offices/ODS/ MG/methylphenida te_MetaXRMG. pdfGive teh PDF time to load. You need to read this.Dee ><))))*> (RN)>> My son just started taking metadate cd yesterday for ADHD. He is only taking 10 MG once a day. His teacher, home based counselor, and I believe he is bipolar. How long does it normally take for the medicine to make an improvement? Will we have to wait until the dosage is increased before that will happen or wait until it has been in his system a while? So far he is still every bit as hyper. The only difference I see is in his mood and that seems worse. Yesterday he threw more tantrums than he has lately and one crying spell lasted at least a half hour. Today he threw a tantrum that was more aggressive but didn't really last long. I made him get off my computer to do some work on paper but he yelled "NO", started fighting me so he could stay in my room, calling me names,

saying I'm stupid and a dummy, and slamming his head into the wall numerous times. Shortly after that he started crying saying he was sorry and now he is back to running from one end of> the h! ouse to the other. I don't know if this morning and yesterday is the result of the medicine or if he would have had these behaviors anyway. Any help will be appreciated!> Thanks! >

[Guest guest]

Our tantrums lasted, oh hours. A relatively easy one was about 45min -1.5 hours with my boy. Sometimes that included a hole in the wall, or him hiding in the closet. After the tantrum, which I refused to feed into, because the more I get involved, the more he would escalate, he typically would sit in his room and completely zone out. Like an out of body experience. You could not get a response out of him no matter what you did. That always worried me more than the tantrums. At least then he was responding to something, this internalizing always bothered me. I don't trust developmental pediatricians myself anymore, as mine wasn't any good. She also classified my boy with bipolar when he was really aspie instead. don't jump to quick to the bipolar side because later down the road the insurance thing with bipolar will be hard for your child. aspie wont matter because he wont go off the deep end as likely a bipolar person stereotypically can. A young aspie can show many of the same signs as the bipolar because of the wide mood swings. They are unsure what they are feeling, how to show it, and really what is appropriate. All must be taught instead of innately learning like neurotypical children. If the ADHD meds aren't working, he likely doesn't need them, for now. Maybe later, don't completely rule them out. He needs something else first to help with the presenting issues. I don't know you or your boy so I can't tell you what they may be really, but journal what you see, find the patterns, see what happens before an event. It will help you to see what makes him tick.

TammyOn Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:29 PM, and Matt <lisa_leonard@...> wrote:

His birth mother is bipolar, his home based counselor who comes to the house for 1 1/2 hours every Monday, his teacher who has been teaching a self contained classroom with autistic, AS, bi-polar, and kids with traumatic brain injury for years, along with a developmental pediatrician believe it is bipolar. The dr didn't want our son having that as a label in his records at such a young age. My son does not get bullied at school. We live in a small town that unfortunately has a larger than average number of students with autism spectrum disorders. I grew up with an autistic brother, raised an ADHD son along with a bipolar daughter and a depressed/suicidal daughter. The only one that believes my six year old is ADHD

is a dr that spent a total of one hour and twenty minutes with him. We had him on the ADHD med for two days and it was horrible. He screamed and cried all day both days, became very physical, more defiant, had bad dreams, slammed his head in the wall and tried to put his head through the window. His dr had us take him off immediately. He goes to see a different specialist in a few days. Hopefully everything will get straightened out.

( ) Re: Unsure about new medication. Several questions.

This drug is a stimulant. Stimulants are not going to help a child with bi-polar. They are used typially for ADHD. If the child has ADHD you should see improvement right away if the dosage is correct for the weight.

However, if you really believe your child is bipolar and not ADHD (please google both conditions related to children - who will present differently from adults) go to another doctor for a second opinion...preferabl y a psychiatrist who specializes in children.

Here is the FFDA.gov informatoin on Metadate:http://www.fda. gov/Cder/ Offices/ODS/ MG/methylphenida te_MetaXRMG. pdf

Give teh PDF time to load. You need to read this.Dee ><))))*> (RN)

>> My son just started taking metadate cd yesterday for ADHD. He is only taking 10 MG once a day. His teacher, home based counselor, and I believe he is bipolar. How long does it normally take for the medicine to make an improvement? Will we have to wait until the

dosage is increased before that will happen or wait until it has been in his system a while? So far he is still every bit as hyper. The only difference I see is in his mood and that seems worse. Yesterday he threw more tantrums than he has lately and one crying spell lasted at

least a half hour. Today he threw a tantrum that was more aggressive but didn't really last long. I made him get off my computer to do some work on paper but he yelled " NO " , started fighting me so he could stay in my room, calling me names,

saying I'm stupid and a dummy, and slamming his head into the wall numerous times. Shortly after that he started crying saying he was sorry and now he is back to running from one end of> the h! ouse to the other. I don't know if this morning and yesterday is the result of the

medicine or if he would have had these behaviors anyway. Any help will be appreciated!> Thanks! >

[Guest guest]

I forgot to say that my 14 year old's biological father is also Bi-Polar, but my son was also abused by him, so we have to look in to all of that first, as PTSD, child abuse, etc. symptoms present like other things, too. And, I know he very well may have it, or someday but right now, he does not for sure. He has AS!! And, who knows what that encompasses.

Ruthie

From: lisa_leonard@...Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 18:29:00 -0700Subject: Re: ( ) Re: Unsure about new medication. Several questions.

His birth mother is bipolar, his home based counselor who comes to the house for 1 1/2 hours every Monday, his teacher who has been teaching a self contained classroom with autistic, AS, bi-polar, and kids with traumatic brain injury for years, along with a developmental pediatrician believe it is bipolar. The dr didn't want our son having that as a label in his records at such a young age. My son does not get bullied at school. We live in a small town that unfortunately has a larger than average number of students with autism spectrum disorders. I grew up with an autistic brother, raised an ADHD son along with a bipolar daughter and a depressed/suicidal daughter. The only one that believes my six year old is ADHD is a dr that spent a total of one hour and twenty minutes with him. We had him on the ADHD med for two days and it was horrible. He screamed and cried all day both days, became very physical, more defiant, had bad dreams, slammed his head in the wall and tried to put his head through the window. His dr had us take him off immediately. He goes to see a different specialist in a few days. Hopefully everything will get straightened out.

( ) Re: Unsure about new medication. Several questions.

This drug is a stimulant. Stimulants are not going to help a child with bi-polar. They are used typially for ADHD. If the child has ADHD you should see improvement right away if the dosage is correct for the weight. However, if you really believe your child is bipolar and not ADHD (please google both conditions related to children - who will present differently from adults) go to another doctor for a second opinion...preferabl y a psychiatrist who specializes in children. Here is the FFDA.gov informatoin on Metadate:http://www.fda. gov/Cder/ Offices/ODS/ MG/methylphenida te_MetaXRMG. pdfGive teh PDF time to load. You need to read this.Dee ><))))*> (RN)>> My son just started taking metadate cd yesterday for ADHD. He is only taking 10 MG once a day. His teacher, home based counselor, and I believe he is bipolar. How long does it normally take for the medicine to make an improvement? Will we have to wait until the dosage is increased before that will happen or wait until it has been in his system a while? So far he is still every bit as hyper. The only difference I see is in his mood and that seems worse. Yesterday he threw more tantrums than he has lately and one crying spell lasted at least a half hour. Today he threw a tantrum that was more aggressive but didn't really last long. I made him get off my computer to do some work on paper but he yelled "NO", started fighting me so he could stay in my room, calling me names, saying I'm stupid and a dummy, and slamming his head into the wall numerous times. Shortly after that he started crying saying he was sorry and now he is back to running from one end of> the h! ouse to the other. I don't know if this morning and yesterday is the result of the medicine or if he would have had these behaviors anyway. Any help will be appreciated!> Thanks! >

[Guest guest]

The AS makes any other diagnoses so difficult. It is all very frustrating. It seems any symptom our kids have can be caused by so many other things. My son was put on metadone a few days ago and that went pretty bad. His dr switched him to adderall and that isn't going any better. I just hope the dr's get him the help he needs soon.

( ) Re: Unsure about new medication. Several questions.

This drug is a stimulant. Stimulants are not going to help a child with bi-polar. They are used typially for ADHD. If the child has ADHD you should see improvement right away if the dosage is correct for the weight. However, if you really believe your child is bipolar and not ADHD (please google both conditions related to children - who will present differently from adults) go to another doctor for a second opinion...preferabl y a psychiatrist who specializes in children. Here is the FFDA.gov informatoin on Metadate:http://www.fda. gov/Cder/ Offices/ODS/ MG/methylphenida te_MetaXRMG. pdfGive teh PDF time to load. You need to read this.Dee ><))))*> (RN)>> My son just started taking metadate cd yesterday for ADHD. He is only taking 10 MG once a day. His teacher, home based counselor, and I believe he is bipolar. How long does it normally take for the medicine to make an improvement? Will we have to wait until the dosage is increased before that will happen or wait until it has been in his system a while? So far he is still every bit as hyper. The only difference I see is in his mood and that seems worse. Yesterday he threw more tantrums than he has lately and one crying spell lasted at least a half hour. Today he threw a tantrum that was more aggressive but didn't really last long. I made him get off my computer to do some work on paper but he yelled "NO", started fighting me so he could stay in my room, calling me names,

saying I'm stupid and a dummy, and slamming his head into the wall numerous times. Shortly after that he started crying saying he was sorry and now he is back to running from one ! end of> the h! ouse to the other. I don't know if this morning and yesterday is the result of the medicine or if he would have had these behaviors anyway. Any help will be appreciated!> Thanks! >

[Guest guest]

I will just have to see what the psychiatrist has to say. I will take his word over a psychologist who only saw my son for ninety minutes any day. If my son is indeed bipolar I would rather him be labeled as such and medicated for that and be able to function than to be given the wrong diagnosis and wrong medicine and continue the downward spiral he has been on since beginning the ADHD medicine. For all the issues my son has had none have compared to when he started the ADHD medicine. I never want to see him trying to ram his head through the walls and closed window again. His home based counselor works with kids on the spectrum along with other behaviorial issues. She sees him quite a bit and she doesn't believe he is ADHD either. I would prefer that he was but I

really don't believe he is. I just wish the dr who tested him last year would have officially diagnosed him instead of unofficially. My son could be getting the correct help now. His birth mother has never had any trouble getting good insurance so I don't think my son will either. I just want the professionals to do their jobs and help him.

( ) Re: Unsure about new medication. Several questions.

This drug is a stimulant. Stimulants are not going to help a child with bi-polar. They are used typially for ADHD. If the child has ADHD you should see improvement right away if the dosage is correct for the weight. However, if you really believe your child is bipolar and not ADHD (please google both conditions related to children - who will present differently from adults) go to another doctor for a second opinion...preferabl y a psychiatrist who specializes in children. Here is the FFDA.gov informatoin on Metadate:http://www.fda. gov/Cder/ Offices/ODS/ MG/methylphenida te_MetaXRMG. pdfGive teh PDF time to load. You need to read this.Dee ><))))*> (RN)>> My son just started taking metadate cd yesterday for ADHD. He is only taking 10 MG once a day. His teacher, home based counselor, and I believe he is bipolar. How long does it normally take for the medicine to make an improvement? Will we have to wait until the dosage is increased before that will happen or wait until it has been in his system a while? So far he is still every bit as hyper. The only difference I see is in his mood and that seems worse. Yesterday he threw more tantrums than he has lately and one crying spell lasted at least a half hour. Today he threw a tantrum that was more aggressive but didn't really last long. I made him get off my computer to do some work on paper but he yelled "NO", started fighting me so he could stay in my room, calling me names,

saying I'm stupid and a dummy, and slamming his head into the wall numerous times. Shortly after that he started crying saying he was sorry and now he is back to running from one end of> the h!! ouse to the other. I don't know if this morning and yesterday is the result of the medicine or if he would have had these behaviors anyway. Any help will be appreciated!> Thanks! >

[Guest guest]

I remember the really long tantrums. Can't say I miss them. His got a lot better after starting the weekly home based counseling. She was coming over twice a week for an hour and a half each time but it is down to once a week now because of his progress. He really likes the play therapy especially the sand tray. We tried taking it down to every other week but that didn't go too well so it's every week again. I liked the developmental pediatrician we dealt with other than when he insisted on putting the diagnoses as AS and disruptive behavior disorder so he wouldn't have a bad label. I'm not too thrilled with the psychologist though. We was supposed to go weekly for two years but he said my son didn't need it (tell

that to the little girl he punched in the stomach) and I was even less thrilled when we told him our son is a wanderer and has a tracking bracelet on. The dr took him into another room to do a test and when my son refused the dr tried to get him to go with him back to his office where we was waiting. My son refused again so the dr had two aids watch him so the dr could come and get us. We got to where my son was supposed to be and the two aids had lost him. We had to go looking for him.

( ) Re: Unsure about new medication. Several questions.

This drug is a stimulant. Stimulants are not going to help a child with bi-polar. They are used typially for ADHD. If the child has ADHD you should see improvement right away if the dosage is correct for the weight. However, if you really believe your child is bipolar and not ADHD (please google both conditions related to children - who will present differently from adults) go to another doctor for a second opinion...preferabl y a psychiatrist who specializes in children. Here is the FFDA.gov informatoin on Metadate:http://www.fda. gov/Cder/ Offices/ODS/ MG/methylphenida te_MetaXRMG. pdfGive teh PDF time to load. You need to read this.Dee ><))))*> (RN)>> My son just started taking metadate cd yesterday for ADHD. He is only taking 10 MG once a day. His teacher, home based counselor, and I believe he is bipolar. How long does it normally take for the medicine to make an improvement? Will we have to wait until the dosage is increased before that will happen or wait until it has been in his system a while? So far he is still every bit as hyper. The only difference I see is in his mood and that seems worse. Yesterday he threw more tantrums than he has lately and one crying spell lasted at least a half hour. Today he threw a tantrum that was more aggressive but didn't really last long. I made him get off my computer to do some work on paper but he yelled "NO", started fighting me so he could stay in my room, calling me names,

saying I'm stupid and a dummy, and slamming his head into the wall numerous times. Shortly after that he started crying saying he was sorry and now he is back to running from one end of> the h! ouse to the other. I don't know if this morning and yesterday is the result of the medicine or if he would have had these behaviors anyway. Any help will be appreciated!> Thanks! >

[Guest guest]

On Jan 1, 12:01am, and Matt wrote:

}

} I will just have to see what the psychiatrist has to say. I will take his word

over a psychologist who only saw my son for ninety minutes any day. If my son is

indeed bipolar I would rather him be labeled as such and medicated for that and

be able to function than to be given the wrong diagnosis and wrong medicine and

continue the downward spiral he has been on since beginning the ADHD medicine.

I agree, especially since our son's psychitrist told us that it is now

thought that each episode for a bipolar person causes some degree

of brain damage. Unfortunately, the drugs used to treat it are quite

dangerous, so they shouldn't be prescribed without a pretty certain

diagnosis. At this time, the psychistrist thinks the risk of prescribing

outweighs the risk of not prescribing.

Willa

[Guest guest]

It is a shame there aren't safer medications for bipolar but I guess that's true with a lot of medications. Luckily his home based counselors supervisor was able to get an appointment scheduled next week for my son with the only child psychiatrist for miles in this area. Usually there is a one year waiting period. My son also has an appointment for an eeg next week and an appt for a speech evaluation in two weeks. That one will probably need to be put on hold indefinitely. His two front teeth still haven't come in and any day now he will be losing another one right next to the gap. They would probably tell me, "of course he has a speech problem, his teeth are missing). He hasn't been able to function well enough lately to attend school so he is now enrolled in eCOT. The computer

should be here today or tomorrow.

Re: ( ) Re: Unsure about new medication. Several questions.

On Jan 1, 12:01am, and Matt wrote:} } I will just have to see what the psychiatrist has to say. I will take his word over a psychologist who only saw my son for ninety minutes any day. If my son is indeed bipolar I would rather him be labeled as such and medicated for that and be able to function than to be given the wrong diagnosis and wrong medicine and continue the downward spiral he has been on since beginning the ADHD medicine. I agree, especially since our son's psychitrist told us that it is nowthought that each episode for a bipolar person causes some degreeof brain damage. Unfortunately, the drugs used to treat it are quitedangerous, so they shouldn't be prescribed without a pretty certaindiagnosis. At this time, the psychistrist thinks the risk of prescribingoutweighs the risk of not prescribing.Willa