hello.

[Guest guest]

Well, I can relate to brain fog, smile. It's a natural part of my life, grin.

Actually, my software

does good at pronouncing things, except for my own user name, smile. It decides

to develop

an accent and say it quite strangely.

I am relieved to know that the side effects usually are not quite as bad as the

informational

pamphlets make them seem. Take care. i am slowly catching up with email.

sue and gidget

[Guest guest]

Hi. i meant psa not pas. My fingers got ahead of my brain. that brain fog again,

and I don't even

have hcv, smile. Sue in WA

[Guest guest]

Hiya,Kat

I read your post and it sounds OH so familiar.I would just like to welcome

you to our little " A " family and if you read past postings you find some

very interesting stories.

Take care

South Wales U.K.

Hello.

> My name is . I stumbled onto this website a few days ago

> when I could not even think of laying down in bed with " floaties " .

> That's what I call stuff stuck in my esophagus...it floats upward and

> downward til I cough it up or the sphincter muscle opens. I am 42

> years old (on 10/1) and have had A since I was 12. It was my 7th

> grade that I new something was wrong with me. But with the turmoil

> going on in my home, I didn't tell anyone til my freshman year of

> high school. I dreaded eating in the cafeteria or in the company of

> friends. I always got up to go the the bathroom after a couple bites.

> Even when the food came up, I could not go back to eating. It would

> be the same cycle: bite, chew, swallow, throw-up. Some days were ok.

> But for the most part, not. I got heartburn often, though I could not

> tell my parents about it either. I didn't like to sleep over a

> friends house because that would mean I'd have to eat too. I don't

> remember if I lost a considerable amount of weight, but since my

> parents split up and going through a divorce, neither of them seemed

> to notice my problem.

> One day it all came to light. My father " treated " us kids (5) to

> Mc's, I was thrilled with being with him and also, McD's was a

> real treat (1974). Well, my eso was not co-operating. After a few

> bites, it was stuck and I went to the bathroom. After a couple times

> doing that, my Dad got mad a said I couldn't go to the bathroom til

> my dinner was done. I wanted to cry, but that would have made him

> madder. I did what any 14 year old would've done with a father like

> him. I ate til nothing would go down. I could not swallow. My eyes

> turned glassy and I could not breathe. I opened my mouth to take a

> breath and all everyone could hear was a wheezy sound. I kept trying

> to breath when it all came up... onto the table. (Glad that was over).

> Well, to make a long story short, I began visits to the doctor to

> come up with some kinda diagnosis. The word/name Achalasia was not

> spoken. I had several procedures done; endoscopy, snake dilatation,

> balloon dilatation, barium swallows, xrays, etc. The snake d's seem

> to give months of relief. But as I got older the problem got worse.

> In June 1984 I elected to have a myotomy. The surgery was not so bad.

> The incision was! From the middle of my back to the middle of my

> front. Plus two drainage holes. I don't remember much about the diet,

> but I do remember the relief. The FIX lasted a good 5 years. I was

> eating like a normal person. I had even forgotten about the pain of

> it all.

> I had a botox injection in 1996. But I don't think it did any good. I

> was given Procardia liquid gel to swallow right before a meal. That

> didn't work either. Doctor told me to try a few sips of wine/alcohol

> to relax the muscles during the meal. Well, that in itself created a

> whole new problem, and still not any lasting benefits. I've tried

> several coping mechanisms, yet nothing lasts more than a meal.

> This last March, I was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis. My doctor

> is an Orthopedic Surgery who is also a Naturopath. She does not do

> medicines, but manipulations and nutrition. I told her of my

> Achalasia, and she tried a few manuevers that she learned from a

> doctor from France. It has brought some relief, but nothing compared

> to the myotomy. I don't know if I'd go that route again.

> Anyway, I don't always have this much to say... But I am sooooo happy

> I stumbled on this group. I have never heard anyone speak about the

> thing which plagues me the most. You all are my " soul-mates " .

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Welcome to Secret Society, Koldune! I'm Raven, one of the Co-

Administrators here. I'm a single working parent running my own

business, diagnosed AS, and raising an absolutely delightful nearly

12-year-old (in July) Aspling son with multiple co-morbidities.

I've been a professional composer/songwriter/performer for 3 decades

now (omg! that looks so much longer in writing than I feel it's been)

and I am the co-creator (along with Tom, the Administrator) of an

international tourism and culture initiative raising awareness and

funds for autism called " Midnight In Chicago " (although, truth be

told, the project is my brainchild and Tom continues to work with me

on making this the project it is now and the project it will grow

into being).

We have some great photos in the PHOTOS section of Secret Society if

you'd like to take a peek and perhaps add a few of your own.

Discussions here run the gamut so there's always something

interesting going on here. :-)

Thank you for writing such a detailed introduction. I sincerely look

forward to reading what you have to share with our members.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

Welcome to Secret Society, Koldune! I'm Raven, one of the Co-

Administrators here. I'm a single working parent running my own

business, diagnosed AS, and raising an absolutely delightful nearly

12-year-old (in July) Aspling son with multiple co-morbidities.

I've been a professional composer/songwriter/performer for 3 decades

now (omg! that looks so much longer in writing than I feel it's been)

and I am the co-creator (along with Tom, the Administrator) of an

international tourism and culture initiative raising awareness and

funds for autism called " Midnight In Chicago " (although, truth be

told, the project is my brainchild and Tom continues to work with me

on making this the project it is now and the project it will grow

into being).

We have some great photos in the PHOTOS section of Secret Society if

you'd like to take a peek and perhaps add a few of your own.

Discussions here run the gamut so there's always something

interesting going on here. :-)

Thank you for writing such a detailed introduction. I sincerely look

forward to reading what you have to share with our members.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

Warm welcome to a community that on the whole relates more rationally.

Your AS seems perfectly real. Though you have the ability to actually

form partnerships, these descriptions of what happens in them match the

literature on them.

I see no reason besides a doc's overdone caution, to dismiss it

as " very mild, " when it fits a lot of your life. (A feeling I and many

of us have shared.) I can't see actually how " very mild " AS would be

clearly discernible, it would be far too fiddly to measure. AS is there

if some of its features are distinctly + definitely there.

[Guest guest]

Warm welcome to a community that on the whole relates more rationally.

Your AS seems perfectly real. Though you have the ability to actually

form partnerships, these descriptions of what happens in them match the

literature on them.

I see no reason besides a doc's overdone caution, to dismiss it

as " very mild, " when it fits a lot of your life. (A feeling I and many

of us have shared.) I can't see actually how " very mild " AS would be

clearly discernible, it would be far too fiddly to measure. AS is there

if some of its features are distinctly + definitely there.

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Raven and Maurice. I appreciate the welcome.

I can think of one advantage I've had over NTs I've known: since I'm mostly just

going

through the motions of emotional response, actually hurting my feelings is

nearly

impossible. In a disagreement, if once someone has shown me the reason why

something

happened, and I'm satisfied that I have all the needed information, any anger

I've had

about it generally vanishes, and I push on. The idea of having still having to

cool down

emotionally, that time is needed separately to deal with involved emotions,

doesn't make a

great deal of sense to me.

I explain to someone, for instance " This is why so-and-so did whatever, and this

was the

very positive thing he was trying to do for you in the process instead of trying

to hurt you. "

The usual, repeated answer is, " But he hurt me when he did that. " I liken such a

response

to complaining, after the lights in the room are turned on, that the room was

once dark. I

see that kind of behavior, however---seemingly hanging on to hurt when the

reason for

doing so is gone--regularly in people I know. It's very frustrating.

Koldune

>

[Guest guest]

>

Having read many of the messages in this group's archive, I find that

this

message is lengthier than most introductions. I joined this group,

though, to

see what I could learn from others like me. The idea of embracing

one's

uniquenesses instead of apologizing for them sounds intriguing. I look

forward to hearing what anyone has to say.

Koldune

hello and welcome. I liked your letter pretty strait foward and

informitive. I by the way am a horrid speller, probably due to my

grandfather insistanting I read a page of the dictionary a night when

i was 8. Stubborn; is that a symptom in the DSM-IV. As well as

usually stoic, and i would like to add confused by tupperware and any

other group shopping party thing.

from the inital sounds of things you may very well like it here. I

hope your family is mending. relax talk stay a while. Be wary of

what you read. i believe we are far richer than our medical friends

credit us with. You sound very emotional even if you are pragmatic

anyway i am rambling just wanted to say hello back. mimi

[Guest guest]

Koldune wrote: " ... <snip> ... In a disagreement, if once someone

has shown me the reason why something happened, and I'm satisfied

that I have all the needed information, any anger I've had about it

generally vanishes, and I push on ... <snip> ... "

I can understand that. I am much the same way in this regard.

However, I find that when I am in the right and I am providing

factual evidence to support my argument, if the person with whom I am

debating insists that based on OPINION alone they are correct and I

am incorrect, I have been known to be quite stubborn -- refusing to

back down because I know they are not thinking correctly.

Koldune wrote: " ... <snip> ... The idea of having still having to

cool down emotionally, that time is needed separately to deal with

involved emotions, doesn't make a great deal of sense to me ...

<snip> ... "

If I am not thinking correctly and I have seen evidence that proves

that my way of thinking is not correct, then I have no problem with

the situation being resolved without emotional cool down time.

If I am thinking correctly and the person with whom I am debating

sees that my way of thinking is correct, then I also have no problem

with the situation being resolved without emotional cool down time.

When I *DO* need emotional cool down time is when, after much

debating and much effort into providing factual evidence to support

my comments and/or arguments, the other person blows it off as a non-

issue because they cannot 'win' with their wrong thinking. I am not

looking for a 'win' or to 'score' points. I am looking for facts to

be made known. As such, the dismissive comments such as " Whatever "

and " OK yeah right " only serve to annoy me more.

Koldune wrote: " ... <snip> ... I explain to someone, for

instance " This is why so-and-so did whatever, and this was the very

positive thing he was trying to do for you in the process instead of

trying to hurt you " ... <snip> ... "

When I do that, I am accused of being cold or hard-hearted or

snobbish or insufferable or impossible or any number of negative

things all because I can see the overall situation as well as the

details objectively. It has even happened here in this forum that a

few members have accused me of being this way. It happens because

people who are doing the name calling are not seeing things with the

emotions taken out of the equation.

Members here who have known me for a number of years in the FAM

forums will tell you that I believe in the Law of Neutrality, that

being that all events are neutral and the emotions we attach to the

events determine if they are positive or negative.

Koldune wrote: " ... <snip> ... The usual, repeated answer is, " But

he hurt me when he did that. " I liken such a response to complaining,

after the lights in the room are turned on, that the room was once

dark. I see that kind of behavior, however---seemingly hanging on to

hurt when the reason for doing so is gone--regularly in people I

know ... <snip> ... "

Hanging on to hurt is not a good way to live one's life, I agree.

However, I do believe that in the moment of any emotion, it is

important to give it voice and then to let it be what it is.

In this way, when my AS boyfriend and I disagree, it is not uncommon

for me to say to him in the moment, " You hurt me when you say [repeat

word for word what hurt me in the moment]. " Once it is said, my

boyfriend usually acknowledges the fact and it is over and done with

in that moment. We find that this facilitates an understanding of

how each of us perceives situations while not allowing emotions to

control how we choose to deal with those situations.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

Koldune wrote: " ... <snip> ... In a disagreement, if once someone

has shown me the reason why something happened, and I'm satisfied

that I have all the needed information, any anger I've had about it

generally vanishes, and I push on ... <snip> ... "

I can understand that. I am much the same way in this regard.

However, I find that when I am in the right and I am providing

factual evidence to support my argument, if the person with whom I am

debating insists that based on OPINION alone they are correct and I

am incorrect, I have been known to be quite stubborn -- refusing to

back down because I know they are not thinking correctly.

Koldune wrote: " ... <snip> ... The idea of having still having to

cool down emotionally, that time is needed separately to deal with

involved emotions, doesn't make a great deal of sense to me ...

<snip> ... "

If I am not thinking correctly and I have seen evidence that proves

that my way of thinking is not correct, then I have no problem with

the situation being resolved without emotional cool down time.

If I am thinking correctly and the person with whom I am debating

sees that my way of thinking is correct, then I also have no problem

with the situation being resolved without emotional cool down time.

When I *DO* need emotional cool down time is when, after much

debating and much effort into providing factual evidence to support

my comments and/or arguments, the other person blows it off as a non-

issue because they cannot 'win' with their wrong thinking. I am not

looking for a 'win' or to 'score' points. I am looking for facts to

be made known. As such, the dismissive comments such as " Whatever "

and " OK yeah right " only serve to annoy me more.

Koldune wrote: " ... <snip> ... I explain to someone, for

instance " This is why so-and-so did whatever, and this was the very

positive thing he was trying to do for you in the process instead of

trying to hurt you " ... <snip> ... "

When I do that, I am accused of being cold or hard-hearted or

snobbish or insufferable or impossible or any number of negative

things all because I can see the overall situation as well as the

details objectively. It has even happened here in this forum that a

few members have accused me of being this way. It happens because

people who are doing the name calling are not seeing things with the

emotions taken out of the equation.

Members here who have known me for a number of years in the FAM

forums will tell you that I believe in the Law of Neutrality, that

being that all events are neutral and the emotions we attach to the

events determine if they are positive or negative.

Koldune wrote: " ... <snip> ... The usual, repeated answer is, " But

he hurt me when he did that. " I liken such a response to complaining,

after the lights in the room are turned on, that the room was once

dark. I see that kind of behavior, however---seemingly hanging on to

hurt when the reason for doing so is gone--regularly in people I

know ... <snip> ... "

Hanging on to hurt is not a good way to live one's life, I agree.

However, I do believe that in the moment of any emotion, it is

important to give it voice and then to let it be what it is.

In this way, when my AS boyfriend and I disagree, it is not uncommon

for me to say to him in the moment, " You hurt me when you say [repeat

word for word what hurt me in the moment]. " Once it is said, my

boyfriend usually acknowledges the fact and it is over and done with

in that moment. We find that this facilitates an understanding of

how each of us perceives situations while not allowing emotions to

control how we choose to deal with those situations.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Mimi.

I've never considered myself emotional, but I suppose I am right now. Mending

the family

is proving to be a rather slow and painful process, with lots of complications.

I think the

complications are what bothers me the most. My AS cringes at any kind of

surprise upset

to plans. Stubborn? I don't know. All stubbornness had ever gotten me is others'

anger,

which I would rather avoid.

On the positive side, I'd really like to know how people use their AS

constructively. Intense

focus seems like a useful tool. I've been known to shut out the rest of the

world

completely when I concentrate on something, even to the point of not hearing

someone

speak to me, or of forgetting to eat when I'm hungry. It doesn't matter what I'm

doing---

working, reading, doing Tarot, doing some kind of art project (usually

calligraphy),

mowing the lawn, cleaning the house. Emotional detachment seems useful, too, in

some

places, even if it doesn't work well dealing with people in general. What have

people

discovered, and how could it be useful to all of us?

Koldune

>

> hello and welcome. I liked your letter pretty strait foward and

> informitive. I by the way am a horrid speller, probably due to my

> grandfather insistanting I read a page of the dictionary a night when

> i was 8. Stubborn; is that a symptom in the DSM-IV. As well as

> usually stoic, and i would like to add confused by tupperware and any

> other group shopping party thing.

>

> from the inital sounds of things you may very well like it here. I

> hope your family is mending. relax talk stay a while. Be wary of

> what you read. i believe we are far richer than our medical friends

> credit us with. You sound very emotional even if you are pragmatic

>

> anyway i am rambling just wanted to say hello back. mimi

>

[Guest guest]

Koldune wrote: " On the positive side, I'd really like to know how

people use their AS constructively. Intense focus seems like a useful

tool. I've been known to shut out the rest of the world completely when

I concentrate on something, even to the point of not hearing someone

speak to me, or of forgetting to eat when I'm hungry. It doesn't matter

what I'm doing -- working, reading, doing Tarot, doing some kind of art

project (usually calligraphy), mowing the lawn, cleaning the house.

Emotional detachment seems useful, too, in some places, even if it

doesn't work well dealing with people in general. What have people

discovered, and how could it be useful to all of us? "

A number of Aspies turn their perseverative interests into their career

which proves to be very successful for them.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

Hi Koldune,

and welcome to the group. A lot of what you have wrote sounds

familiar.

I have been called 'cold' 'emotionless' etc and haven't understood

what I can do to show people I have emotions and am not cold etc - to

be honest I've given up caring in that particular area; those that

believe I'm cold and emotionless etc obviously just don't really know

me at all and sometimes I suspect they prefer to think I'm cold and

emotionless, because it then kind of justifies them been able to

treat me badly.

Also I sometimes manage to annoy/upset people without realising and

leaves me confused because a lot of the time people expect me to be

some sort of mind reader and just 'know'.

" Having read many of the messages in this group's archive, I find

that this message is lengthier than most introductions. I joined this

group, though, to see what I could learn from others like me. The

idea of embracing one's uniquenesses instead of apologizing for them

sounds intriguing. I look forward to hearing what anyone has to say. "

I've found your introduction very good.

I think many aspies have a lot of good qualities that many tend to

forget about whilst they too busy trying to either 'normalize' (oh

how I dislike that word) or cure aspies.

Aspies are often accused of being cold and emotionless etc and yet

many I have met and know are very passionate and very caring people,

also dispelling the myth that aspies have no empathy. I sometimes

suspect that those accusing aspies of such things are the one's with

the faults and the problems, especially when you look at some of the

ideas and practices out there, such as ABA for autistics and other

such atrocities.

>

> I'm Koldune, I'm new to this site, and I would like to introduce

myself. I'm in my

> early 50s and married. My wife and I have four children between us,

one of

> them together and two actually living with us. I have a job working

as a copy

> editor for a national teachers' organization. I am somewhat active

socially, but

> only at my wife's instigation. Even then, she tends to be the one

who does

> most of the talking. Left to myself, I would probably still be

holed up in my

> house.

>

> I have been recently tentatively diagnosed as possibly having very

mild

> Aspergers Syndrome (AS), after a stay in a hospital psych ward for

suicidal

> anxiety and depression. I must say that what I've read of AS since

then

> certainly fits quite a lot of what I've dealt with in life. I've

spent most of it mostly

> wondering what was different about me. There was being considered

weird in

> childhood through young adulthood; some bullying in childhood;

adult

> romantic relationships where the woman in question accused me of

being

> cold and uncaring but couldn't tell me exactly what she needed me

to do, as

> though it were something innate that didn't need explaining. Not

getting that

> explanation, even when I ask for it, has been one of the banes of

my

> existence.

>

> I've never been able read people very well or very accurately, and

my

> nonverbals are so subtle or different that people often can't read

me well, The

> kind of nonverbal, emotional awareness that seems to exist in most

people

> naturally seems indistinguishable to me from, and as remote a goal

as,

> telepathy. I have even pursued psychic development, mostly as a

Wiccan, in

> order to compensate, with less success than success I would like.

>

> Looking back, a lot of the adapting I've done that has allowed me

to function

> in NT society has been learning the motions of NT interaction,

often without

> much feeling to back them up. I can remember at a pep rally in high

school

> going through the motions of school spirit as a camouflaging act,

all the while

> really wanted it just say, " Yeah, hooray, " munch on something, and

watch

> everyone else make idiots of themselves. I understand sarcasm, but

I have

> trouble zeroing in on a potential lie. I long ago lost count of the

number of

> times I've, to my bafflement, had someone suddenly very angry with

me, or

> very confused around me, for no reason that I could see.

>

> I suppose I've been lucky: the worst my condition has cost me,

aside from that

> kind of confusion, are two marriages and a number of shorter

relationships.

> My current wife-my third marriage-complains of severe loneliness

because I

> don't reciprocate affection well enough to satisfy her.

Predictably, she can't

> describe what she needs in the nuts-and-bolts terms with which I

tend to think.

> (She was diagnosed bipolar after a hospital stay similar to mine

three months

> ago. Her past has her considering reading nonverbals accurately as

a

> survival skill---gauging when she needed to hide because her father

was

> about to explode violently, for instance. Not being able to read me

is driving

> her crazy. You can imagine the result of one of my few overt

nonverbals-

> eyebrows narrowed together, meaning that I'm thinking-being

identical to her

> father's signal of an impending violent rage.) I tend to like

keeping things

> orderly, and I resist change, whereas my wife seemingly lives on

the ragged

> edge of chaos, possibly because she has never seen anything else.

My wife

> and I are both in individual counseling, as well as martial

counseling together.

>

> My wife, at least, believes that I'm trying to communicate. I have

had others---

> day-to-day family, friends, and acquaintances-accuse me of being

> deliberately uncommunicative. The military did that a lot. Their

attitude was

> that everyone could communicate, so if it wasn't happening, you

were being

> negligent. That left little room for someone who didn't actually

have normal NT

> sensitivities but went through the motions anyway. The more my

duties dealt

> with people and being a manager, the worse it got. I've had

problems being a

> parent, too, especially to my 15-year-old stepdaughter. I'm doing

better with

> the three-year-old daughter my wife and I have together. I can

say, " I love

> you, " or whatever, but I'm not sure I feel what most people would

think goes

> with it automatically. Fear, frustration, and anger I know well, or

I can describe

> exactly what they are to me. The sunnier emotions---enthusiasm,

excitement,

> etc.---are either a mystery or somehow less than dignified and less

than

> absolutely necessary.

>

> Having read many of the messages in this group's archive, I find

that this

> message is lengthier than most introductions. I joined this group,

though, to

> see what I could learn from others like me. The idea of embracing

one's

> uniquenesses instead of apologizing for them sounds intriguing. I

look

> forward to hearing what anyone has to say.

>

> Koldune

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Koldune,

and welcome to the group. A lot of what you have wrote sounds

familiar.

I have been called 'cold' 'emotionless' etc and haven't understood

what I can do to show people I have emotions and am not cold etc - to

be honest I've given up caring in that particular area; those that

believe I'm cold and emotionless etc obviously just don't really know

me at all and sometimes I suspect they prefer to think I'm cold and

emotionless, because it then kind of justifies them been able to

treat me badly.

Also I sometimes manage to annoy/upset people without realising and

leaves me confused because a lot of the time people expect me to be

some sort of mind reader and just 'know'.

" Having read many of the messages in this group's archive, I find

that this message is lengthier than most introductions. I joined this

group, though, to see what I could learn from others like me. The

idea of embracing one's uniquenesses instead of apologizing for them

sounds intriguing. I look forward to hearing what anyone has to say. "

I've found your introduction very good.

I think many aspies have a lot of good qualities that many tend to

forget about whilst they too busy trying to either 'normalize' (oh

how I dislike that word) or cure aspies.

Aspies are often accused of being cold and emotionless etc and yet

many I have met and know are very passionate and very caring people,

also dispelling the myth that aspies have no empathy. I sometimes

suspect that those accusing aspies of such things are the one's with

the faults and the problems, especially when you look at some of the

ideas and practices out there, such as ABA for autistics and other

such atrocities.

>

> I'm Koldune, I'm new to this site, and I would like to introduce

myself. I'm in my

> early 50s and married. My wife and I have four children between us,

one of

> them together and two actually living with us. I have a job working

as a copy

> editor for a national teachers' organization. I am somewhat active

socially, but

> only at my wife's instigation. Even then, she tends to be the one

who does

> most of the talking. Left to myself, I would probably still be

holed up in my

> house.

>

> I have been recently tentatively diagnosed as possibly having very

mild

> Aspergers Syndrome (AS), after a stay in a hospital psych ward for

suicidal

> anxiety and depression. I must say that what I've read of AS since

then

> certainly fits quite a lot of what I've dealt with in life. I've

spent most of it mostly

> wondering what was different about me. There was being considered

weird in

> childhood through young adulthood; some bullying in childhood;

adult

> romantic relationships where the woman in question accused me of

being

> cold and uncaring but couldn't tell me exactly what she needed me

to do, as

> though it were something innate that didn't need explaining. Not

getting that

> explanation, even when I ask for it, has been one of the banes of

my

> existence.

>

> I've never been able read people very well or very accurately, and

my

> nonverbals are so subtle or different that people often can't read

me well, The

> kind of nonverbal, emotional awareness that seems to exist in most

people

> naturally seems indistinguishable to me from, and as remote a goal

as,

> telepathy. I have even pursued psychic development, mostly as a

Wiccan, in

> order to compensate, with less success than success I would like.

>

> Looking back, a lot of the adapting I've done that has allowed me

to function

> in NT society has been learning the motions of NT interaction,

often without

> much feeling to back them up. I can remember at a pep rally in high

school

> going through the motions of school spirit as a camouflaging act,

all the while

> really wanted it just say, " Yeah, hooray, " munch on something, and

watch

> everyone else make idiots of themselves. I understand sarcasm, but

I have

> trouble zeroing in on a potential lie. I long ago lost count of the

number of

> times I've, to my bafflement, had someone suddenly very angry with

me, or

> very confused around me, for no reason that I could see.

>

> I suppose I've been lucky: the worst my condition has cost me,

aside from that

> kind of confusion, are two marriages and a number of shorter

relationships.

> My current wife-my third marriage-complains of severe loneliness

because I

> don't reciprocate affection well enough to satisfy her.

Predictably, she can't

> describe what she needs in the nuts-and-bolts terms with which I

tend to think.

> (She was diagnosed bipolar after a hospital stay similar to mine

three months

> ago. Her past has her considering reading nonverbals accurately as

a

> survival skill---gauging when she needed to hide because her father

was

> about to explode violently, for instance. Not being able to read me

is driving

> her crazy. You can imagine the result of one of my few overt

nonverbals-

> eyebrows narrowed together, meaning that I'm thinking-being

identical to her

> father's signal of an impending violent rage.) I tend to like

keeping things

> orderly, and I resist change, whereas my wife seemingly lives on

the ragged

> edge of chaos, possibly because she has never seen anything else.

My wife

> and I are both in individual counseling, as well as martial

counseling together.

>

> My wife, at least, believes that I'm trying to communicate. I have

had others---

> day-to-day family, friends, and acquaintances-accuse me of being

> deliberately uncommunicative. The military did that a lot. Their

attitude was

> that everyone could communicate, so if it wasn't happening, you

were being

> negligent. That left little room for someone who didn't actually

have normal NT

> sensitivities but went through the motions anyway. The more my

duties dealt

> with people and being a manager, the worse it got. I've had

problems being a

> parent, too, especially to my 15-year-old stepdaughter. I'm doing

better with

> the three-year-old daughter my wife and I have together. I can

say, " I love

> you, " or whatever, but I'm not sure I feel what most people would

think goes

> with it automatically. Fear, frustration, and anger I know well, or

I can describe

> exactly what they are to me. The sunnier emotions---enthusiasm,

excitement,

> etc.---are either a mystery or somehow less than dignified and less

than

> absolutely necessary.

>

> Having read many of the messages in this group's archive, I find

that this

> message is lengthier than most introductions. I joined this group,

though, to

> see what I could learn from others like me. The idea of embracing

one's

> uniquenesses instead of apologizing for them sounds intriguing. I

look

> forward to hearing what anyone has to say.

>

> Koldune

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Koldune,

and welcome to the group. A lot of what you have wrote sounds

familiar.

I have been called 'cold' 'emotionless' etc and haven't understood

what I can do to show people I have emotions and am not cold etc - to

be honest I've given up caring in that particular area; those that

believe I'm cold and emotionless etc obviously just don't really know

me at all and sometimes I suspect they prefer to think I'm cold and

emotionless, because it then kind of justifies them been able to

treat me badly.

Also I sometimes manage to annoy/upset people without realising and

leaves me confused because a lot of the time people expect me to be

some sort of mind reader and just 'know'.

" Having read many of the messages in this group's archive, I find

that this message is lengthier than most introductions. I joined this

group, though, to see what I could learn from others like me. The

idea of embracing one's uniquenesses instead of apologizing for them

sounds intriguing. I look forward to hearing what anyone has to say. "

I've found your introduction very good.

I think many aspies have a lot of good qualities that many tend to

forget about whilst they too busy trying to either 'normalize' (oh

how I dislike that word) or cure aspies.

Aspies are often accused of being cold and emotionless etc and yet

many I have met and know are very passionate and very caring people,

also dispelling the myth that aspies have no empathy. I sometimes

suspect that those accusing aspies of such things are the one's with

the faults and the problems, especially when you look at some of the

ideas and practices out there, such as ABA for autistics and other

such atrocities.

>

> I'm Koldune, I'm new to this site, and I would like to introduce

myself. I'm in my

> early 50s and married. My wife and I have four children between us,

one of

> them together and two actually living with us. I have a job working

as a copy

> editor for a national teachers' organization. I am somewhat active

socially, but

> only at my wife's instigation. Even then, she tends to be the one

who does

> most of the talking. Left to myself, I would probably still be

holed up in my

> house.

>

> I have been recently tentatively diagnosed as possibly having very

mild

> Aspergers Syndrome (AS), after a stay in a hospital psych ward for

suicidal

> anxiety and depression. I must say that what I've read of AS since

then

> certainly fits quite a lot of what I've dealt with in life. I've

spent most of it mostly

> wondering what was different about me. There was being considered

weird in

> childhood through young adulthood; some bullying in childhood;

adult

> romantic relationships where the woman in question accused me of

being

> cold and uncaring but couldn't tell me exactly what she needed me

to do, as

> though it were something innate that didn't need explaining. Not

getting that

> explanation, even when I ask for it, has been one of the banes of

my

> existence.

>

> I've never been able read people very well or very accurately, and

my

> nonverbals are so subtle or different that people often can't read

me well, The

> kind of nonverbal, emotional awareness that seems to exist in most

people

> naturally seems indistinguishable to me from, and as remote a goal

as,

> telepathy. I have even pursued psychic development, mostly as a

Wiccan, in

> order to compensate, with less success than success I would like.

>

> Looking back, a lot of the adapting I've done that has allowed me

to function

> in NT society has been learning the motions of NT interaction,

often without

> much feeling to back them up. I can remember at a pep rally in high

school

> going through the motions of school spirit as a camouflaging act,

all the while

> really wanted it just say, " Yeah, hooray, " munch on something, and

watch

> everyone else make idiots of themselves. I understand sarcasm, but

I have

> trouble zeroing in on a potential lie. I long ago lost count of the

number of

> times I've, to my bafflement, had someone suddenly very angry with

me, or

> very confused around me, for no reason that I could see.

>

> I suppose I've been lucky: the worst my condition has cost me,

aside from that

> kind of confusion, are two marriages and a number of shorter

relationships.

> My current wife-my third marriage-complains of severe loneliness

because I

> don't reciprocate affection well enough to satisfy her.

Predictably, she can't

> describe what she needs in the nuts-and-bolts terms with which I

tend to think.

> (She was diagnosed bipolar after a hospital stay similar to mine

three months

> ago. Her past has her considering reading nonverbals accurately as

a

> survival skill---gauging when she needed to hide because her father

was

> about to explode violently, for instance. Not being able to read me

is driving

> her crazy. You can imagine the result of one of my few overt

nonverbals-

> eyebrows narrowed together, meaning that I'm thinking-being

identical to her

> father's signal of an impending violent rage.) I tend to like

keeping things

> orderly, and I resist change, whereas my wife seemingly lives on

the ragged

> edge of chaos, possibly because she has never seen anything else.

My wife

> and I are both in individual counseling, as well as martial

counseling together.

>

> My wife, at least, believes that I'm trying to communicate. I have

had others---

> day-to-day family, friends, and acquaintances-accuse me of being

> deliberately uncommunicative. The military did that a lot. Their

attitude was

> that everyone could communicate, so if it wasn't happening, you

were being

> negligent. That left little room for someone who didn't actually

have normal NT

> sensitivities but went through the motions anyway. The more my

duties dealt

> with people and being a manager, the worse it got. I've had

problems being a

> parent, too, especially to my 15-year-old stepdaughter. I'm doing

better with

> the three-year-old daughter my wife and I have together. I can

say, " I love

> you, " or whatever, but I'm not sure I feel what most people would

think goes

> with it automatically. Fear, frustration, and anger I know well, or

I can describe

> exactly what they are to me. The sunnier emotions---enthusiasm,

excitement,

> etc.---are either a mystery or somehow less than dignified and less

than

> absolutely necessary.

>

> Having read many of the messages in this group's archive, I find

that this

> message is lengthier than most introductions. I joined this group,

though, to

> see what I could learn from others like me. The idea of embracing

one's

> uniquenesses instead of apologizing for them sounds intriguing. I

look

> forward to hearing what anyone has to say.

>

> Koldune

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks, Mimi.

>

Mending the family

Koldune-- I have found people with AS to be fircely loyal(sometimes

to injury to themselves) There is a beauty in function and

effecience, an ease that goes far beyond convience.

So a few things. You must move beyond the tendency to believe what

society says. As is not " wrong " and it is intensely useful. To know

you have As is a gift because you can trust the truth within

yourself. Raven says all things are neutral. I was always bothered

by that but positive and negative are about cognition and perspective

(so now I finally understand)

> is proving to be a rather slow and painful process, with lots of

complications. I think the

> complications are what bothers me the most. My AS cringes at any

kind of surprise upset

> to plans.

AS to me is an orientation of world view, once we free ourselves of

imposed bonds by societies expectations we can order the universe. I

always think of Einstein and Hawkings

It is my belief that they; because of their limitations reach outside

of themselves to order the world in order to place themselves in it.

I try to figure out the universe (literally) to understand my neighbor

String therory and quantum mechanics make more sense to me than

intrest rates and tupperware(for some reason it is my example of

evil; I am not sure why) It is easier to divine the cosmos than

explain petty behavior.

Stubborn? I guess when I say stubborn I mean Will. I cannot ever

acccept that I cannot figure it out, and once figuring, then start to

eliminate extemporanious info. As I was thinking about this this AM

is about spacial beauty and finding what fits and feels right.

(Raven, I think I figured out my mathimatical equation:0) So many

times you find an AS individual that is a visual learner but extend

that out. that can mean so many things. We understand proportion,

the operation of our particular perseveration. We strive to know to

the exclusion of all else.

Super senses in a way. super sight (art calligrphy, spelling, eye

for detail, perhaps in a fiancial way) Super hearing (music, and

appreciation of it, sound both pleasant, and an ear for what is

discordant, perfect pitch) How many times has a child with autism or

ASD complained about imperfect sound. Super touch (I myself have

this I just found out. I touch things to feel their rightness,

proportion, works with super sight, knowing what feels right

spacially) Taste (I am sure this will strike a chord with everyone

as we discussed in length mouth feel, in our Autistic children not

eating something based on texture, or another example, how many times

will you refuse to eat if you cannot have the taste or texture that

you are set on? huh huh am I close) Then there is supersmell(how

many of us are supersensitive to smell, both pleasant and not, we can

know things like if a male or female was there before us, If a person

is a smoker, what ingredients are in a food, really the list goes

on)

Now we come to a favorite super emotions. Many Aspies will say they

are not emotional That is a misnomer and I will tell why. SOOOOO

often we cannot bear to hurt another(that has not wronged us ) Or

the lengths so many of us will go to to avoid discord. We understand

the value of truth in Love (really how can we have super senses and

not seek to understand all emotion) What we do not dwell on that our

near cousins do is the petty. Pettiness is like a foul smell and

many aspies do not paticipate, and so NT's are shocked and dismayed

they point to us and proclaim our emotional detachment. We simply do

not fit the expectations (now I am not talking of the kind of

violence attributed to us Emotionless murder) ummmm which many an NT

has preformed. we are scapegoated in the media because I have never

heard the news tell of anoth Nt killer on the loose but Aspergers

well that one is like a bright point of neon

> On the positive side, I'd really like to know how people use their

AS constructively. Intense

> focus seems like a useful tool. Emotional detachment (not

detachment but organizational sense) seems useful, too,

You already likely have a better handle on the truth than the

marriage councelor, and it sounds like you are proactive. If I could

give any thoughts it would be to trust yourself and your brain and

seek truth and intention. avoid pettiness and look for the truth

even if it is elusive or painful because to live in lies is prison>

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks, Mimi.

>

Mending the family

Koldune-- I have found people with AS to be fircely loyal(sometimes

to injury to themselves) There is a beauty in function and

effecience, an ease that goes far beyond convience.

So a few things. You must move beyond the tendency to believe what

society says. As is not " wrong " and it is intensely useful. To know

you have As is a gift because you can trust the truth within

yourself. Raven says all things are neutral. I was always bothered

by that but positive and negative are about cognition and perspective

(so now I finally understand)

> is proving to be a rather slow and painful process, with lots of

complications. I think the

> complications are what bothers me the most. My AS cringes at any

kind of surprise upset

> to plans.

AS to me is an orientation of world view, once we free ourselves of

imposed bonds by societies expectations we can order the universe. I

always think of Einstein and Hawkings

It is my belief that they; because of their limitations reach outside

of themselves to order the world in order to place themselves in it.

I try to figure out the universe (literally) to understand my neighbor

String therory and quantum mechanics make more sense to me than

intrest rates and tupperware(for some reason it is my example of

evil; I am not sure why) It is easier to divine the cosmos than

explain petty behavior.

Stubborn? I guess when I say stubborn I mean Will. I cannot ever

acccept that I cannot figure it out, and once figuring, then start to

eliminate extemporanious info. As I was thinking about this this AM

is about spacial beauty and finding what fits and feels right.

(Raven, I think I figured out my mathimatical equation:0) So many

times you find an AS individual that is a visual learner but extend

that out. that can mean so many things. We understand proportion,

the operation of our particular perseveration. We strive to know to

the exclusion of all else.

Super senses in a way. super sight (art calligrphy, spelling, eye

for detail, perhaps in a fiancial way) Super hearing (music, and

appreciation of it, sound both pleasant, and an ear for what is

discordant, perfect pitch) How many times has a child with autism or

ASD complained about imperfect sound. Super touch (I myself have

this I just found out. I touch things to feel their rightness,

proportion, works with super sight, knowing what feels right

spacially) Taste (I am sure this will strike a chord with everyone

as we discussed in length mouth feel, in our Autistic children not

eating something based on texture, or another example, how many times

will you refuse to eat if you cannot have the taste or texture that

you are set on? huh huh am I close) Then there is supersmell(how

many of us are supersensitive to smell, both pleasant and not, we can

know things like if a male or female was there before us, If a person

is a smoker, what ingredients are in a food, really the list goes

on)

Now we come to a favorite super emotions. Many Aspies will say they

are not emotional That is a misnomer and I will tell why. SOOOOO

often we cannot bear to hurt another(that has not wronged us ) Or

the lengths so many of us will go to to avoid discord. We understand

the value of truth in Love (really how can we have super senses and

not seek to understand all emotion) What we do not dwell on that our

near cousins do is the petty. Pettiness is like a foul smell and

many aspies do not paticipate, and so NT's are shocked and dismayed

they point to us and proclaim our emotional detachment. We simply do

not fit the expectations (now I am not talking of the kind of

violence attributed to us Emotionless murder) ummmm which many an NT

has preformed. we are scapegoated in the media because I have never

heard the news tell of anoth Nt killer on the loose but Aspergers

well that one is like a bright point of neon

> On the positive side, I'd really like to know how people use their

AS constructively. Intense

> focus seems like a useful tool. Emotional detachment (not

detachment but organizational sense) seems useful, too,

You already likely have a better handle on the truth than the

marriage councelor, and it sounds like you are proactive. If I could

give any thoughts it would be to trust yourself and your brain and

seek truth and intention. avoid pettiness and look for the truth

even if it is elusive or painful because to live in lies is prison>

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks, Mimi.

>

Mending the family

Koldune-- I have found people with AS to be fircely loyal(sometimes

to injury to themselves) There is a beauty in function and

effecience, an ease that goes far beyond convience.

So a few things. You must move beyond the tendency to believe what

society says. As is not " wrong " and it is intensely useful. To know

you have As is a gift because you can trust the truth within

yourself. Raven says all things are neutral. I was always bothered

by that but positive and negative are about cognition and perspective

(so now I finally understand)

> is proving to be a rather slow and painful process, with lots of

complications. I think the

> complications are what bothers me the most. My AS cringes at any

kind of surprise upset

> to plans.

AS to me is an orientation of world view, once we free ourselves of

imposed bonds by societies expectations we can order the universe. I

always think of Einstein and Hawkings

It is my belief that they; because of their limitations reach outside

of themselves to order the world in order to place themselves in it.

I try to figure out the universe (literally) to understand my neighbor

String therory and quantum mechanics make more sense to me than

intrest rates and tupperware(for some reason it is my example of

evil; I am not sure why) It is easier to divine the cosmos than

explain petty behavior.

Stubborn? I guess when I say stubborn I mean Will. I cannot ever

acccept that I cannot figure it out, and once figuring, then start to

eliminate extemporanious info. As I was thinking about this this AM

is about spacial beauty and finding what fits and feels right.

(Raven, I think I figured out my mathimatical equation:0) So many

times you find an AS individual that is a visual learner but extend

that out. that can mean so many things. We understand proportion,

the operation of our particular perseveration. We strive to know to

the exclusion of all else.

Super senses in a way. super sight (art calligrphy, spelling, eye

for detail, perhaps in a fiancial way) Super hearing (music, and

appreciation of it, sound both pleasant, and an ear for what is

discordant, perfect pitch) How many times has a child with autism or

ASD complained about imperfect sound. Super touch (I myself have

this I just found out. I touch things to feel their rightness,

proportion, works with super sight, knowing what feels right

spacially) Taste (I am sure this will strike a chord with everyone

as we discussed in length mouth feel, in our Autistic children not

eating something based on texture, or another example, how many times

will you refuse to eat if you cannot have the taste or texture that

you are set on? huh huh am I close) Then there is supersmell(how

many of us are supersensitive to smell, both pleasant and not, we can

know things like if a male or female was there before us, If a person

is a smoker, what ingredients are in a food, really the list goes

on)

Now we come to a favorite super emotions. Many Aspies will say they

are not emotional That is a misnomer and I will tell why. SOOOOO

often we cannot bear to hurt another(that has not wronged us ) Or

the lengths so many of us will go to to avoid discord. We understand

the value of truth in Love (really how can we have super senses and

not seek to understand all emotion) What we do not dwell on that our

near cousins do is the petty. Pettiness is like a foul smell and

many aspies do not paticipate, and so NT's are shocked and dismayed

they point to us and proclaim our emotional detachment. We simply do

not fit the expectations (now I am not talking of the kind of

violence attributed to us Emotionless murder) ummmm which many an NT

has preformed. we are scapegoated in the media because I have never

heard the news tell of anoth Nt killer on the loose but Aspergers

well that one is like a bright point of neon

> On the positive side, I'd really like to know how people use their

AS constructively. Intense

> focus seems like a useful tool. Emotional detachment (not

detachment but organizational sense) seems useful, too,

You already likely have a better handle on the truth than the

marriage councelor, and it sounds like you are proactive. If I could

give any thoughts it would be to trust yourself and your brain and

seek truth and intention. avoid pettiness and look for the truth

even if it is elusive or painful because to live in lies is prison>

[Guest guest]

" I'm Koldune, I'm new to this site, and I would like to introduce

myself. "

Hi Koldune. Welcome to the forum. Sorry I did not respond sooner. My

computer was being repaired and I did not have access to the net for

the last week.

" I have been recently tentatively diagnosed as possibly having very

mild Aspergers Syndrome (AS), after a stay in a hospital psych ward

for suicidal anxiety and depression. "

Many people with AS wind up with depression and suicidal thoughts,

usually because they are made to FEEL their differences by the rest

of society so often. Some of us feel that even if we were given a

step by step instruction book on hiw to integrate into society, we

could follow it to the letter and still not be accepted.

" I must say that what I've read of AS since then certainly fits quite

a lot of what I've dealt with in life. I've spent most of

it mostly wondering what was different about me. There was being

considered weird in childhood through young adulthood; some bullying

in childhood; adult romantic relationships where the woman in

question accused me of being cold and uncaring but couldn't tell me

exactly what she needed me to do, as though it were something innate

that didn't need explaining. Not getting that explanation, even when

I ask for it, has been one of the banes of my existence. "

So it has been with many of us.

" I've never been able read people very well or very accurately, and my

nonverbals are so subtle or different that people often can't read me

well... "

That is because people without AS cannot seem to detect our very

slight expressions and vocal intonations.

" The kind of nonverbal, emotional awareness that seems to exist in

most people naturally seems indistinguishable to me from, and as

remote a goal as, telepathy. I have even pursued psychic development,

mostly as a Wiccan, in order to compensate, with less success than

success I would like. "

Yep. People who do not have AS seem just as alien to me. Their facial

expressions and vocal intonations seem over-the-top to me and

exaggerated. Yet at the same time, they seem to be able to

communicate with one another just fine.

" My current wife-my third marriage-complains of severe loneliness

because I don't reciprocate affection well enough to satisfy her.

Predictably, she can't describe what she needs in the nuts-and-bolts

terms with which I tend to think. "

Very typical.

" (She was diagnosed bipolar after a hospital stay similar to mine

three months ago. Her past has her considering reading nonverbals

accurately as a survival skill---gauging when she needed to hide

because her father was about to explode violently, for instance. Not

being able to read me is driving her crazy. You can imagine the

result of one of my few overt nonverbals- eyebrows narrowed together,

meaning that I'm thinking-being identical to her father's signal of

an impending violent rage.) "

This is precisely what our marriage counselor told my bipolar ex-

wife, and that is why she quit marriage counseling on the

spot....because it was true.

" I tend to like keeping things orderly, and I resist change, whereas

my wife seemingly lives on the ragged edge of chaos, possibly because

she has never seen anything else. "

The behaviors you describe are typically AS and typically bipolar

respectively.

" I have had others--- day-to-day family, friends, and acquaintances-

accuse me of being deliberately uncommunicative. "

I get that too.

" The more my duties dealt with people and being a manager, the worse

it got. "

I had problems as a supervisor. I attribute this to my constantly

demanding that people work for a living instead of gabbing on the

phone, playing solitaire on the computer, etc., all the while

churning out inaccurate and substandard work.

" I've had problems being a parent, too, especially to my 15-year-old

stepdaughter. I'm doing better with the three-year-old daughter my

wife and I have together. "

I think this is normal regardless of whether the parent is Aspie or

not. Kids tend to pick favorites among their parents as parents tend

to pick favorites among their kids. Parental relationships with their

children reflect these favoritisms.

" I can say, " I love you, " or whatever, but I'm not sure I feel what

most people would think goes with it automatically. "

This is because most people do not know what love is, or else they

mis-perceive what love is.

Nor can they distinguish the many different kinds of love.

" Fear, frustration, and anger I know well, or I can

describe exactly what they are to me. The sunnier emotions---

enthusiasm, excitement, etc.---are either a mystery or somehow less

than dignified and less than absolutely necessary. "

This is because your life is one where you are constantly operating

on a sort of emergency basis because you do not know where the next

bit of trouble is going to come from or when. And you cannot allow

yourself to enjoy the sunnier emotions too much, too fast, or too

easy for the simple reason that you might get nailed with something

negative just when you are feeling good.

Going through life the way GIs went through Vietnam prevents you from

being able to enjoy yourself or enjoy good emotions. You are in

survival mode, and your survival necessitates all the preservative

emotions that keep you safe. These would exclude the enjoyable

emotions since these emotions tend to keep you off your guard.

" Having read many of the messages in this group's archive, I find

that this message is lengthier than most introductions. "

That's because those of us long-timers went through all the lengthy

introductions eons ago. It's rather unfortunate for new members that

we don't rehash the details of our own lives. Suffice it to say we

have all led similar lives to yours in many ways.

" I joined this group, though, to see what I could learn from others

like me. The idea of embracing one's uniquenesses instead of

apologizing for them sounds intriguing. I look forward to hearing

what anyone has to say. "

Basically it involves a different mindset. Just because the rest of

the world rejects us does not mean we have to fall into that mold and

play the reject for them. Communicating with others here has taught

me that there is dignity in being who I am, and if my own life has

excelled in recent years, I attribute it to many of the things I have

learned from the members of these forums.

Again, welcome.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" I'm Koldune, I'm new to this site, and I would like to introduce

myself. "

Hi Koldune. Welcome to the forum. Sorry I did not respond sooner. My

computer was being repaired and I did not have access to the net for

the last week.

" I have been recently tentatively diagnosed as possibly having very

mild Aspergers Syndrome (AS), after a stay in a hospital psych ward

for suicidal anxiety and depression. "

Many people with AS wind up with depression and suicidal thoughts,

usually because they are made to FEEL their differences by the rest

of society so often. Some of us feel that even if we were given a

step by step instruction book on hiw to integrate into society, we

could follow it to the letter and still not be accepted.

" I must say that what I've read of AS since then certainly fits quite

a lot of what I've dealt with in life. I've spent most of

it mostly wondering what was different about me. There was being

considered weird in childhood through young adulthood; some bullying

in childhood; adult romantic relationships where the woman in

question accused me of being cold and uncaring but couldn't tell me

exactly what she needed me to do, as though it were something innate

that didn't need explaining. Not getting that explanation, even when

I ask for it, has been one of the banes of my existence. "

So it has been with many of us.

" I've never been able read people very well or very accurately, and my

nonverbals are so subtle or different that people often can't read me

well... "

That is because people without AS cannot seem to detect our very

slight expressions and vocal intonations.

" The kind of nonverbal, emotional awareness that seems to exist in

most people naturally seems indistinguishable to me from, and as

remote a goal as, telepathy. I have even pursued psychic development,

mostly as a Wiccan, in order to compensate, with less success than

success I would like. "

Yep. People who do not have AS seem just as alien to me. Their facial

expressions and vocal intonations seem over-the-top to me and

exaggerated. Yet at the same time, they seem to be able to

communicate with one another just fine.

" My current wife-my third marriage-complains of severe loneliness

because I don't reciprocate affection well enough to satisfy her.

Predictably, she can't describe what she needs in the nuts-and-bolts

terms with which I tend to think. "

Very typical.

" (She was diagnosed bipolar after a hospital stay similar to mine

three months ago. Her past has her considering reading nonverbals

accurately as a survival skill---gauging when she needed to hide

because her father was about to explode violently, for instance. Not

being able to read me is driving her crazy. You can imagine the

result of one of my few overt nonverbals- eyebrows narrowed together,

meaning that I'm thinking-being identical to her father's signal of

an impending violent rage.) "

This is precisely what our marriage counselor told my bipolar ex-

wife, and that is why she quit marriage counseling on the

spot....because it was true.

" I tend to like keeping things orderly, and I resist change, whereas

my wife seemingly lives on the ragged edge of chaos, possibly because

she has never seen anything else. "

The behaviors you describe are typically AS and typically bipolar

respectively.

" I have had others--- day-to-day family, friends, and acquaintances-

accuse me of being deliberately uncommunicative. "

I get that too.

" The more my duties dealt with people and being a manager, the worse

it got. "

I had problems as a supervisor. I attribute this to my constantly

demanding that people work for a living instead of gabbing on the

phone, playing solitaire on the computer, etc., all the while

churning out inaccurate and substandard work.

" I've had problems being a parent, too, especially to my 15-year-old

stepdaughter. I'm doing better with the three-year-old daughter my

wife and I have together. "

I think this is normal regardless of whether the parent is Aspie or

not. Kids tend to pick favorites among their parents as parents tend

to pick favorites among their kids. Parental relationships with their

children reflect these favoritisms.

" I can say, " I love you, " or whatever, but I'm not sure I feel what

most people would think goes with it automatically. "

This is because most people do not know what love is, or else they

mis-perceive what love is.

Nor can they distinguish the many different kinds of love.

" Fear, frustration, and anger I know well, or I can

describe exactly what they are to me. The sunnier emotions---

enthusiasm, excitement, etc.---are either a mystery or somehow less

than dignified and less than absolutely necessary. "

This is because your life is one where you are constantly operating

on a sort of emergency basis because you do not know where the next

bit of trouble is going to come from or when. And you cannot allow

yourself to enjoy the sunnier emotions too much, too fast, or too

easy for the simple reason that you might get nailed with something

negative just when you are feeling good.

Going through life the way GIs went through Vietnam prevents you from

being able to enjoy yourself or enjoy good emotions. You are in

survival mode, and your survival necessitates all the preservative

emotions that keep you safe. These would exclude the enjoyable

emotions since these emotions tend to keep you off your guard.

" Having read many of the messages in this group's archive, I find

that this message is lengthier than most introductions. "

That's because those of us long-timers went through all the lengthy

introductions eons ago. It's rather unfortunate for new members that

we don't rehash the details of our own lives. Suffice it to say we

have all led similar lives to yours in many ways.

" I joined this group, though, to see what I could learn from others

like me. The idea of embracing one's uniquenesses instead of

apologizing for them sounds intriguing. I look forward to hearing

what anyone has to say. "

Basically it involves a different mindset. Just because the rest of

the world rejects us does not mean we have to fall into that mold and

play the reject for them. Communicating with others here has taught

me that there is dignity in being who I am, and if my own life has

excelled in recent years, I attribute it to many of the things I have

learned from the members of these forums.

Again, welcome.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" In this way, when my AS boyfriend and I disagree, it is not uncommon

for me to say to him in the moment, " You hurt me when you say [repeat

word for word what hurt me in the moment]. " Once it is said, my

boyfriend usually acknowledges the fact and it is over and done with

in that moment. We find that this facilitates an understanding of

how each of us perceives situations while not allowing emotions to

control how we choose to deal with those situations. "

I would like to add to this by saying that acknowledging the other

person's feelings and one's role in bringing on these feelings,

positive or negative, is vital.

Psychologists in recent years have said " No one controls your own

emotional responses. " While this is true, I do feel that emotional

responses can be provoked, otherwise they would not happen in the

first place.

Thus if I say something and it Raven feels hurt by it, I will state

that I did not mean for my words to hurt her, and that they could

have been stated better. Nevertheless, she understands at the same

time the thrust of what I was saying and thus I feel that I have been

heard.

So it is a win-win thing all around even if the feelings associated

with the actual words used are not the best.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

What you are doing is called perseveration and hyperfocus. Most

Aspies do it - or can do it. I use these abilities to do artwork,

which is finally beginning to sell, to write, and to construct and

maintain this forum and others I have. and I also use it to work out

really difficult problems.

Tom

Administrator

On the positive side, I'd really like to know how people use their AS

constructively. Intense focus seems like a useful tool. I've been

known to shut out the rest of the world completely when I concentrate

on something, even to the point of not hearing someone speak to me,

or of forgetting to eat when I'm hungry. It doesn't matter what I'm

doing--- working, reading, doing Tarot, doing some kind of art

project (usually calligraphy), mowing the lawn, cleaning the house.

Emotional detachment seems useful, too, in some places, even if it

doesn't work well dealing with people in general. What have people

discovered, and how could it be useful to all of us?

[Guest guest]

In situations where people are not intending to hurt the below (you

describe) can and does work. However I have come across plenty in

this life that do use words intentionally to hurt and on occasions

sometimes it is not always easy to spot those that do so subtly -

they say they not intending to hurt and yet seem to squirrel away

info' pertaining to what things exactly will hurt another and then

procede to use such.

>

> " In this way, when my AS boyfriend and I disagree, it is not

uncommon

> for me to say to him in the moment, " You hurt me when you say

[repeat

> word for word what hurt me in the moment]. " Once it is said, my

> boyfriend usually acknowledges the fact and it is over and done with

> in that moment. We find that this facilitates an understanding of

> how each of us perceives situations while not allowing emotions to

> control how we choose to deal with those situations. "

>

> I would like to add to this by saying that acknowledging the other

> person's feelings and one's role in bringing on these feelings,

> positive or negative, is vital.

>

> Psychologists in recent years have said " No one controls your own

> emotional responses. " While this is true, I do feel that emotional

> responses can be provoked, otherwise they would not happen in the

> first place.

>

> Thus if I say something and it Raven feels hurt by it, I will state

> that I did not mean for my words to hurt her, and that they could

> have been stated better. Nevertheless, she understands at the same

> time the thrust of what I was saying and thus I feel that I have

been

> heard.

>

> So it is a win-win thing all around even if the feelings associated

> with the actual words used are not the best.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

Update on my Lexapro withdrawal. It's been a week without Lexapro. For three

days I have been feeling a tingling inside my head and on my face. I also have

something that spark in my brain is sort of a noise in the brain. It is a very

weird feeling like my head is disconecting from the normal feeling of the rest

of the body. Lexapro is a violent drug when it comes to withdrawal.

---------------------------------

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