Aides in high school?

[Guest guest]

Does anyone have any BTDT to share on aides in high school? They have offered

my 14yo part-time shared aides in every class, but the IEP team was divided on

whether he would benefit from this. The school came up with this idea because

they determined my son needs to be in smaller classes, but can't be because his

high IQ makes it inappropriate to put him in a special ed classroom. So, their

solution was to give him these aides at certain times. They were somewhat fuzzy

on what situations would result in these aides being brought in, something about

when new concepts are being brought up. We'll have to iron that out. My son

doesn't have any learning problems, but does need in-class support with math,

written expression and following directions of all sorts. It seems general ed

teachers in jr/sr high don't have time to do this themselves. My husband

doesn't want the aides because he thinks it will stigmatize our son and can't

get past that. The school diagnostician and my son's teachers all think he

needs the aides, the main diagnostician for the autism team does not.

Obviously, I will be asking these people some further questions, but I was

wondering what people on the group thought and had experience with. I'm having

a hard time picturing what it will be like on an everyday level, so I'm having a

hard time seeing if it will be useful or not. We didn't have such things when I

was in school, so I have no personal experience. He is having a social

skills/organization class one period 5 days a week specifically geared towards

ASD kids and a case manager also. That is for sure. What do you all think?

I'm for anything that can relieve some of the school-related work for me, as we

have another son, basically NT, who is also having serious problems at school

and needs my time. I'm hoping I can finally have a little more time for him,

especially since he doesn't get any help from the school.

Thanks!

Ruth

[Guest guest]

I sortof have to agree with your husband. I have seen this happen far too many times, when the aide isn't there the kid gets made fun of double for it, and when the aide is there no other kids will dare try to interact with him and will laugh at him behind the aides back. I am not sure about the alternative, but this can sometimes be bad too. If it is just one or two classes, and you ask the aide specifically not to follow your kid (just sortof be there for all kids) it might not be so bad... but...

From: me2ruth@...Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 16:55:27 +0000Subject: ( ) Aides in high school?

Does anyone have any BTDT to share on aides in high school? They have offered my 14yo part-time shared aides in every class, but the IEP team was divided on whether he would benefit from this. The school came up with this idea because they determined my son needs to be in smaller classes, but can't be because his high IQ makes it inappropriate to put him in a special ed classroom. So, their solution was to give him these aides at certain times. They were somewhat fuzzy on what situations would result in these aides being brought in, something about when new concepts are being brought up. We'll have to iron that out. My son doesn't have any learning problems, but does need in-class support with math, written expression and following directions of all sorts. It seems general ed teachers in jr/sr high don't have time to do this themselves. My husband doesn't want the aides because he thinks it will stigmatize our son and can't get past that. The school diagnostician and my son's teachers all think he needs the aides, the main diagnostician for the autism team does not. Obviously, I will be asking these people some further questions, but I was wondering what people on the group thought and had experience with. I'm having a hard time picturing what it will be like on an everyday level, so I'm having a hard time seeing if it will be useful or not. We didn't have such things when I was in school, so I have no personal experience. He is having a social skills/organization class one period 5 days a week specifically geared towards ASD kids and a case manager also. That is for sure. What do you all think? I'm for anything that can relieve some of the school-related work for me, as we have another son, basically NT, who is also having serious problems at school and needs my time. I'm hoping I can finally have a little more time for him, especially since he doesn't get any help from the school.Thanks!Ruth

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[Guest guest]

Are there collaborative classes available? Where there would be a reg ed and special education teacher in the classroom? If they were going to give a student in high school an assistant, as a parent I would want very clear, specifics about how the assistant would be utilized. Also, at that level there would need to be a certain amount of training to be given the identified person. My son had an assistant since K and there have been good and bad ones. I've spent alot of time ironing out issues with assistants. Pam

In a message dated 6/2/2009 1:30:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, me2ruth@... writes:

Does anyone have any BTDT to share on aides in high school? They have offered my 14yo part-time shared aides in every class, but the IEP team was divided on whether he would benefit from this. The school came up with this idea because they determined my son needs to be in smaller classes, but can't be because his high IQ makes it inappropriate to put him in a special ed classroom. So, their solution was to give him these aides at certain times. They were somewhat fuzzy on what situations would result in these aides being brought in, something about when new concepts are being brought up. We'll have to iron that out. My son doesn't have any learning problems, but does need in-class support with math, written expression and following directions of all sorts. It seems general ed teachers in jr/sr high don't have time to do this themselves. My husband doesn't want the aides because he thinks it will stigmatize our son and can't get past that. The school diagnostician and my son's teachers all think he needs the aides, the main diagnostician for the autism team does not. Obviously, I will be asking these people some further questions, but I was wondering what people on the group thought and had experience with. I'm having a hard time picturing what it will be like on an everyday level, so I'm having a hard time seeing if it will be useful or not. We didn't have such things when I was in school, so I have no personal experience. He is having a social skills/organization class one period 5 days a week specifically geared towards ASD kids and a case manager also. That is for sure. What do you all think? I'm for anything that can relieve some of the school-related work for me, as we have another son, basically NT, who is also having serious problems at school and needs my time. I'm hoping I can finally have a little more time for him, especially since he doesn't get any help from the school.Thanks!Ruth

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[Guest guest]

If he didn't have the one period dedicated to organization scheduled for every day of the week, I would push to start with an aide. But with the special class, I'd start without an aide and see how he does. My son had this the first part of sixth grade and it helped a lot. We didn't have so much extra work to make up at home b/c they took care of it during that period at school. If he's still struggling though, maybe reevaluate after the first 3 months or so?

"Over-optimism is waiting for you ship to come in when you haven't sent one out."

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth@...> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 11:55:27 AMSubject: ( ) Aides in high school?

Does anyone have any BTDT to share on aides in high school? They have offered my 14yo part-time shared aides in every class, but the IEP team was divided on whether he would benefit from this. The school came up with this idea because they determined my son needs to be in smaller classes, but can't be because his high IQ makes it inappropriate to put him in a special ed classroom. So, their solution was to give him these aides at certain times. They were somewhat fuzzy on what situations would result in these aides being brought in, something about when new concepts are being brought up. We'll have to iron that out. My son doesn't have any learning problems, but does need in-class support with math, written expression and following directions of all sorts. It seems general ed teachers in jr/sr high don't have time to do this themselves. My husband doesn't want the aides because he thinks it will stigmatize our son and can't get past that. The school

diagnostician and my son's teachers all think he needs the aides, the main diagnostician for the autism team does not. Obviously, I will be asking these people some further questions, but I was wondering what people on the group thought and had experience with. I'm having a hard time picturing what it will be like on an everyday level, so I'm having a hard time seeing if it will be useful or not. We didn't have such things when I was in school, so I have no personal experience. He is having a social skills/organization class one period 5 days a week specifically geared towards ASD kids and a case manager also. That is for sure. What do you all think? I'm for anything that can relieve some of the school-related work for me, as we have another son, basically NT, who is also having serious problems at school and needs my time. I'm hoping I can finally have a little more time for him, especially since he doesn't get any help from the

school.Thanks!Ruth

[Guest guest]

>

> If he didn't have the one period�dedicated to�organization scheduled for

every day of the week, I would push to start with an aide.��But with the

special class, I'd start without an aide and see how he does.� My son�had

this the first part of sixth grade and it helped a lot.� We didn't have so

much extra work to make up at home b/c they�took care of it during that period

at school.��If he's still struggling though, maybe�reevaluate after the

first 3 months or so?

This is good advice. I'll tell you what I'm thinking of. The first month or so

is crucial to my son because the teachers, 504/IEP or not, don't catch on to his

problems right away. He looks normal, seems smart, and he doesn't talk much so

they don't know. First thing you know, it is 3 or 4 weeks into school and he is

already flunking a couple of classes. So, on the one hand, I want to finally

keep this from happening, but on the other hand, since he has all this other

stuff he's never had maybe it won't anyway. And I do plan on putting some time

into updating his intro letter this summer, and that should help. I talked to

the high school counselor and she said we could call an IEP meeting as soon as 3

or 4 weeks into school and change it if he is having difficulty. So, maybe I'm

being a little paranoid? As I'm writing this, I'm seeing this LOL. I may still

e-mail/call up the couple of people who had strong opinions on it to see what

they think, just to have the knowledge (matter of fact, I'm pretty sure I'll do

that--curiosity killed the cat). And I'll have to ask my son how it was with

the co-teacher in math this year; he never complained, although I know she ended

up working with him quite a bit even though he wasn't officially assigned to

her. I feel better now. Thanks!

I'm finding the thing I really feel good about is my son getting to meet the

other kids on the spectrum in his high school for his social skills/organization

class. I think that will be so good for him. They've committed to it for a

year, and they have assured me they won't be yanking him away from his supports

when he starts doing better. So, I have peace of mind for a year.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I sortof have to agree with your husband. I have seen this happen far too

many times, when the aide isn't there the kid gets made fun of double for it,

and when the aide is there no other kids will dare try to interact with him and

will laugh at him behind the aides back. I am not sure about the alternative,

but this can sometimes be bad too. If it is just one or two classes, and you

ask the aide specifically not to follow your kid (just sortof be there for all

kids) it might not be so bad... but...

Thanks for the male perspective, . I think this is a good point. I was

hoping schools were getting better about being more tactful, but maybe that is

wishful thinking. The aide would be there for a number or kids and probably

help any who needed it, but I don't see how it could not be right out there. I

will probably wait and see if he can manage without it. I think what I

especially feel uneasy about is that all his current teachers especially thought

he needed this, and it seems they should know. But on the other hand, maybe the

school is overdoing it trying to make up for the lack of a smaller class size.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. I think it'll be more clear too when I talk

to the couple of people I have in mind.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

>

> Are there collaborative classes available? Where there would be a reg ed

> and special education teacher in the classroom?

Thanks, Pam. Yes, they have what they call co-teacher classes where there are

two full-time teachers, one reg ed and one spec ed. But in our school district

those classes have somewhat watered down curriculum so would not be appropriate

for my son, who has no learning disabilities.

He is not getting an assistant. These aides would be shared with other

students, brought in on teacher demand. They feel like my son needs to have

extra help when he is first introduced to material. I think what this comes

down to is his difficulty in getting instructions down; he doesn't have

difficulty learning the material. Yes, there would definitely be some ironing

out to do on exactly what it is he needs help with, as teachers pretty much

never really understand it at first. It always takes some discussion.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

What we found that worked better than a para with our son all the tone or even in a few classes was for him to have a resource class everyday with a special education teacher. Thus teacher & his para were responsible for getting all of the assignments for each day from the teachers. They also kept up with what he had not turned in on time. Then they provided assistance by giving him extra time to get assignments done in a quieter environment with help as he needed it. All of their work was done more behind the scenes, so it was not as obvious. If he had difficulty with things they helped him or helped to arrange a time with the general we teacher for him to get additional help. Our high school has an after-school learning lab three days a week & most teachers make after school appointmets to help students.Sent from my iPhoneBlessings, DonnaOn Jun 2, 2009, at 6:37 PM, "r_woman2" <me2ruth@...> wrote:

>

>

> I sortof have to agree with your husband. I have seen this happen far too many times, when the aide isn't there the kid gets made fun of double for it, and when the aide is there no other kids will dare try to interact with him and will laugh at him behind the aides back. I am not sure about the alternative, but this can sometimes be bad too. If it is just one or two classes, and you ask the aide specifically not to follow your kid (just sortof be there for all kids) it might not be so bad... but...

Thanks for the male perspective, . I think this is a good point. I was hoping schools were getting better about being more tactful, but maybe that is wishful thinking. The aide would be there for a number or kids and probably help any who needed it, but I don't see how it could not be right out there. I will probably wait and see if he can manage without it. I think what I especially feel uneasy about is that all his current teachers especially thought he needed this, and it seems they should know. But on the other hand, maybe the school is overdoing it trying to make up for the lack of a smaller class size. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I think it'll be more clear too when I talk to the couple of people I have in mind.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

Given everything you've fought for and for so long, I wouldn't call it "paranoid" for sure! Let's call it "extra thoughtful", okie doke? Completely understandable!

"Over-optimism is waiting for you ship to come in when you haven't sent one out."

"Fall down seven times, stand up eight." - Japanese Proverb

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth@...> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 6:29:46 PMSubject: Re: ( ) Aides in high school?

>> If he didn't have the one period�dedicated to�organization scheduled for every day of the week, I would push to start with an aide.��But with the special class, I'd start without an aide and see how he does.� My son�had this the first part of sixth grade and it helped a lot.� We didn't have so much extra work to make up at home b/c they�took care of it during that period at school.��If he's still struggling though, maybe�reevaluate after the first 3 months or so?This is good advice. I'll tell you what I'm thinking of. The first month or so is crucial to my son because the teachers, 504/IEP or not, don't catch on to his problems right away. He looks

normal, seems smart, and he doesn't talk much so they don't know. First thing you know, it is 3 or 4 weeks into school and he is already flunking a couple of classes. So, on the one hand, I want to finally keep this from happening, but on the other hand, since he has all this other stuff he's never had maybe it won't anyway. And I do plan on putting some time into updating his intro letter this summer, and that should help. I talked to the high school counselor and she said we could call an IEP meeting as soon as 3 or 4 weeks into school and change it if he is having difficulty. So, maybe I'm being a little paranoid? As I'm writing this, I'm seeing this LOL. I may still e-mail/call up the couple of people who had strong opinions on it to see what they think, just to have the knowledge (matter of fact, I'm pretty sure I'll do that--curiosity killed the cat). And I'll have to ask my son how it was with the co-teacher in math this year; he never

complained, although I know she ended up working with him quite a bit even though he wasn't officially assigned to her. I feel better now. Thanks!I'm finding the thing I really feel good about is my son getting to meet the other kids on the spectrum in his high school for his social skills/organization class. I think that will be so good for him. They've committed to it for a year, and they have assured me they won't be yanking him away from his supports when he starts doing better. So, I have peace of mind for a year. :)Ruth

[Guest guest]

>

> What we found that worked better than a para with our son all the tone

> or even in a few classes was for him to have a resource class everyday

> with a special education teacher.

So, hopefully this everyday social skills/organization class may fit the bill.

They tell me it is totally individualized to each student even though it is a

class, so I am hopeful it will be a good thing. We put down specific things for

him to work on in the IEP based on his evals. They also have after-school

tutoring like you described. I think most schools provide that these days. So,

that is good too, although both my kids are resisting going. I have to work on

persuading them. They don't get studying. When I tell them maybe they should

study for tests they think I'm telling them they are stupid. When I pursue the

matter, they have this naive idea that most kids don't study, and I haven't been

able to shake them from that idea. Anyway, I appreciate the BTDT; this is all

very helpful!

Ruth

[Guest guest]

Dear Ruth,

I don't agree with about other kids making fun of your son if he were to have in-class aides -- or maybe the kids at my son's school were just nicer to him than 's son's classmates! I actually thought there was less of a feeling that he was being singled out as "special" when there was an in-class aide who could help several students, depending on who needed help most at any given time. The other advantage of in-class aides is that presumably, they will know something about the subject matter of each class they are assigned to. One of the few problems with my son's personal assistant (who was otherwise wonderful) is that in high school, as his classes became more and more advanced, she was less and less able to understand the subject matter (calculus, biology, chemistry, and computer science were particularly difficult for her to follow). So she could not really help him with those subjects. In his tenth-grade social studies class, which was actually taught in combination with English, there was an extra teacher in the classroom who helped anyone who needed help -- whether or not that student had a disability. She was a great asset! When he didn't need her help, she didn't hover.

The same teacher was often present in his seventh-period study hall (called "instructional skills"), so that if he had problems with any of his homework assignments, she was there to help.

Good luck to you and your son!

Jill

[Guest guest]

I agree with Jill. Also, the kids are already making fun of these kids who need the aides anyway. But having an aide wasn't a choice for us. If you have a choice, then he doesn't probably need one.

Roxanna

Autism Happens

( ) Re: Aides in high school?

Dear Ruth,

I don't agree with about other kids making fun of your son if he were to have in-class aides -- or maybe the kids at my son's school were just nicer to him than 's son's classmates! I actually thought there was less of a feeling that he was being singled out as "special" when there was an in-class aide who could help several students, depending on who needed help most at any given time. The other advantage of in-class aides is that presumably, they will know something about the subject matter of each class they are assigned to. One of the few problems with my son's personal assistant (who was otherwise wonderful) is that in high school, as his classes became more and more advanced, she was less and less able to understand the subject matter (calculus, biology, chemistry, and computer science were particularly difficult for her to follow). So she could not really help him with those subjects. In his tenth-grade social studies class, which was actually taught in combination with English, there was an extra teacher in the classroom who helped anyone who needed help -- whether or not that student had a disability. She was a great asset! When he didn't need her help, she didn't hover.

The same teacher was often present in his seventh-period study hall (called "instructional skills"), so that if he had problems with any of his homework assignments, she was there to help.

Good luck to you and your son!

Jill

Wanna slim down for summer? Go to America Takes it Off to learn how.

[Guest guest]

With all due respect to all the parents out there I really think that they are

deluding themselves if they think that their kids " fit in " with the NT kids.

Since Aspergers is largely a social disorder (I know that is over simplified)

they act different and the kids at school probably already know more about those

differences than either the teachers or us as parents. I don't believe that

this means our kids can have friends or won't ever be able to hang out with

other NT kids but I don't believe that having an aide is going to suddenly bring

out the bullies.

Ruth if your son has gotten to high school without any significant problems I

can't see a bunch of kids suddenly start to pick on him because he has a aide

that he is sharing with a bunch of other kids. Besides I think the benefits way

out weigh the risks in this case.

With all the work you have made to try to get him the extra help he needs to

excel I don't think you should pass up any extra assistance you can get. Your

son is gifted and therefore has great potential to get somewhere special. His

abilities may be able to earn opportunities that the average kid or the

" average " aspie will never have. Take every little bit of help you can get to

help him find those opportunities. He will work out his own social nich in life

in time if he hasn't already.

Vickie

>

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> I agree with Jill.? Also, the kids are already making fun of these kids who

need the aides anyway.? But having an aide wasn't a choice for us.? If you have

a choice, then he doesn't probably need one.?

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> ?Roxanna

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> Autism Happens

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> Dear Ruth,

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> ?

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> I don't agree with about other kids making

> fun of your son if he were to have in-class aides -- or maybe the kids at my

> son's school were just nicer to him than 's son's classmates!? I

> actually thought there was less of a feeling that he was being singled out as

> " special " when there was an in-class aide who could help several students,

> depending on who needed help?most at any given time.? The other

> advantage of in-class aides?is that presumably, they will know something

> about the subject matter of each class they are assigned to.? One of the

> few problems with my son's personal assistant (who was otherwise wonderful) is

> that in high school, as his classes became more and more advanced, she was

less

> and less able to understand the subject matter (calculus, biology, chemistry,

> and computer science were particularly difficult for her to follow).? So

> she could not really help him with those subjects.? In his tenth-grade

> social studies class, which was actually?taught in combination?with

> English, there was an extra teacher in the classroom who helped anyone who

> needed help -- whether or not that student had a disability.? She was a

> great asset!? When he didn't need her help, she didn't hover.

>

>

> ?

>

>

> The same teacher was often present in his

> seventh-period study hall (called " instructional skills " ), so that if he had

> problems with any of his homework assignments, she was there to

> help.

>

>

> ?

>

>

> Good luck to you and your son!

>

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> ?

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> Jill

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> ?

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[Guest guest]

While the aide generally is there for all kids, and does try to be tactful, it

doesn't take students very long to deduct that she is there for the autistic

student in class, especcially if they have more then one class with him (which

ALWAYS happens that he shares classes with 5 or so students, then they tell

everyone else who is in the class). Just curious, has he always had an aide

before? There is no reason he should need it at the high school level if he

didn't need it prior to then.

> >

> >

> > I sortof have to agree with your husband. I have seen this happen far too

many times, when the aide isn't there the kid gets made fun of double for it,

and when the aide is there no other kids will dare try to interact with him and

will laugh at him behind the aides back. I am not sure about the alternative,

but this can sometimes be bad too. If it is just one or two classes, and you

ask the aide specifically not to follow your kid (just sortof be there for all

kids) it might not be so bad... but...

>

> Thanks for the male perspective, . I think this is a good point. I was

hoping schools were getting better about being more tactful, but maybe that is

wishful thinking. The aide would be there for a number or kids and probably

help any who needed it, but I don't see how it could not be right out there. I

will probably wait and see if he can manage without it. I think what I

especially feel uneasy about is that all his current teachers especially thought

he needed this, and it seems they should know. But on the other hand, maybe the

school is overdoing it trying to make up for the lack of a smaller class size.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. I think it'll be more clear too when I talk

to the couple of people I have in mind.

>

> Ruth

>

[Guest guest]

I am a Paraprofessional with a high school student. I have been with him since 9th grade and he is in 11th grade now. I will be with him next year too.

I truly believe it depends on the student and the aide. My student doesn't take any one making fun of him and I don't think they would dare. The other student in our grade with a para is HFA...she could care less about the other kids..she is so into her own world. The kids help her and understand to a degree why she needs a para.

The students have become close to me....they come to me for help. Yes...some may make fun of me...but most like the fact that I am there. I support them all. I have become very close to all of them and helped them all with their work and some of their personal problems. When I am out....I am missed by many.

I think you need to weigh the advantages vs disadvantages.....my student says he doesn't want a para...yet when i am out...he truly misses me. I think you need to think about the child. Does the child really need one, does the child have a lot of friends? what does the child think? Also, I am with my student all day long...I don't leave him...I eat lunch in the cafe with him...so there is no chance for him to be picked on ....and the students know that if I ever found out...there would be Helx to pay. I know that I am close to many of them that they would tell me. They come to me when they are picked on by other kids.

What I am saying each situation/case depends. It depends on the student, the type of para that he/she gets. Go with your gut feelings.

Jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: <fnofsports@...>Subject: Re: ( ) Aides in high school? Date: Wednesday, June 3, 2009, 5:00 PM

While the aide generally is there for all kids, and does try to be tactful, it doesn't take students very long to deduct that she is there for the autistic student in class, especcially if they have more then one class with him (which ALWAYS happens that he shares classes with 5 or so students, then they tell everyone else who is in the class). Just curious, has he always had an aide before? There is no reason he should need it at the high school level if he didn't need it prior to then.> >> > > > I sortof have to agree with your husband. I have seen this happen far too many times, when the aide isn't there the kid gets made fun of double for it, and when the aide is there no other kids will dare try to interact with him and will laugh at him behind the aides back. I am not sure about the alternative, but this can sometimes be bad too. If it is just one or two classes, and you ask the aide specifically not to follow your kid (just sortof be there for all kids) it might not be so bad... but...> > Thanks for the male perspective, . I think this is a good point. I was hoping schools were getting better about being more tactful, but maybe that is wishful thinking. The aide would be there for a number or kids and probably help any who needed it, but I don't see how it

could not be right out there. I will probably wait and see if he can manage without it. I think what I especially feel uneasy about is that all his current teachers especially thought he needed this, and it seems they should know. But on the other hand, maybe the school is overdoing it trying to make up for the lack of a smaller class size. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I think it'll be more clear too when I talk to the couple of people I have in mind.> > Ruth>

[Guest guest]

>

> With all due respect to all the parents out there I really think that they are

deluding themselves if they think that their kids " fit in " with the NT kids.

Since Aspergers is largely a social disorder (I know that is over simplified)

they act different and the kids at school probably already know more about those

differences than either the teachers or us as parents.

Sorry I haven't been able to answer all the responses individually! I have been

reading them all and talking to people at the schools, figuring this out. I

think we are okay the way we have it now, with an aide just for math. From what

I'm understanding, since they have made a determination that he " needs " smaller

classes but it is not appropriate to put him in a special ed class, and the

aides are a way to " shrink " the class size in effect--that it will be easy to

get aides in more classes if it turns out he needs them. The school

diagnostician really helped me see what they were thinking about and what I can

ask the teachers to look for next year, so we can nip any problems in the bud,

call an IEP meeting and get the aides in place if he needs them.

Vicky, I am also having a hard time seeing how simply having an aide, especially

one shared with others in the class, would cause bullying unless it was not

already there. And I have to say that having all the supports these last two

years in jr high that he did not have in elementary has REALLY decreased his

stress levels and made his stimming and other odd behaviors drop off. To me,

that is kind of the final test--are their anxiety levels dropping off and are

they progressing more because of it. And even with just the 504, I am seeing

that.

Roxanna, that is a good thought that maybe if it is a choice whether he has an

aide that probably means he doesn't need one. I'm just not sure if " choice " is

the right word here. It is more like people aren't sure, and it sort of depends

on what each individual teacher is like. Maybe some teachers can meet his needs

on their own, maybe others will need help.

And was wondering why they are suddenly offering aides at age 14 LOL.

Long story there. In a nutshell, we have been fighting for services for 4

years. My son is gifted, so they had some leeway. When he started having

serious dysfunction, they just kept dropping him down into easier and easier

curriculums instead of dealing with his problems. We have finally gotten this

resolved and they will be putting him back into the advanced classes, and they

think he perhaps needs a smaller class or an aide to succeed at his appropriate

educational level. Even aside from the advanced classes, the demands of grade

level in high school may be enough that he needs an aide. And his teachers have

been doing aide-like things for him, some better than others, and they may not

be able to keep that up in high school.

I'm kind of wondering if many of the problems getting our son services are

coming out of the RTI thing. I think many school districts went through a phase

where they got all excited over the idea of offering special-ed-like

accommodations without special ed, to be administered by only general ed staff.

I think our school district is getting over this and realizing these kids need

to be in special ed with properly trained staff. Our school district was trying

to say they could do things with just a 504 that were truly not reality. I'm

finally not hearing that kind of talk anymore.

Last day of school today. Yea! Now what are we going to do all summer LOL.

Thanks for all the great advice. I love you guys!

Ruth

[Guest guest]

Actually, this isn't true. My ds did not get an aide until 6th grade. As the classes became more complex and with the number of teachers to deal with, an aide was required where it was not in elementary school. As for other students figuring out who the aide is for, they would figure out who needs the aide whether there was an aide or not. They already know which students need help within a class.

Roxanna

Autism Happens

Re: ( ) Aides in high school?

While the aide generally is there for all kids, and does try to be tactful, it doesn't take students very long to deduct that she is there for the autistic student in class, especcially if they have more then one class with him (which ALWAYS happens that he shares classes with 5 or so students, then they tell everyone else who is in the class). Just curious, has he always had an aide before? There is no reason he should need it at the high school level if he didn't need it prior to then.

> >

> >

> > I sortof have to agree with your husband. I have seen this happen far too many times, when the aide isn't there the kid gets made fun of double for it, and when the aide is there no other kids will dare try to interact with him and will laugh at him behind the aides back. I am not sure about the alternative, but this can sometimes be bad too. If it is just one or two classes, and you ask the aide specifically not to follow your kid (just sortof be there for all kids) it might not be so bad... but...

>

> Thanks for the male perspective, . I think this is a good point. I was hoping schools were getting better about being more tactful, but maybe that is wishful thinking. The aide would be there for a number or kids and probably help any who needed it, but I don't see how it could not be right out there. I will probably wait and see if he can manage without it. I think what I especially feel uneasy about is that all his current teachers especially thought he needed this, and it seems they should know. But on the other hand, maybe the school is overdoing it trying to make up for the lack of a smaller class size. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I think it'll be more clear too when I talk to the couple of people I have in mind.

>

> Ruth

>

Wanna slim down for summer? Go to America Takes it Off to learn how.

[Guest guest]

It seems like we approach things in opposite ways. One thing I would do when discussing an aide is to first discuss his needs and not discuss an aide. You would make a list of his educational needs. Then you go through those needs and decide how to manage them - some will get accommodations, some modifications - some have goals and can be taught to him in steps, some require therapy (OT, PT, ST) etc. When you come to things that cannot be dealt with without someone there to directly introduce, cue, prompt, refocus...when that is necessary, you then have to ask who will do that and how will it be done? Can he self-direct himself with a list? Can teacher help him stay on task with a card taped to his folder and pointing to what he needs to be doing every so often? Can he have a buddy who can help him stay on task or is that too big of a job for another child to take on? At that point, you start thinking he needs someone to help implement the strategies designed for that specific goal/need. Ultimately it is not "Should we give him an aide or not?" but "how do we implement these strategies?" Then whether to provide an aide sorta becomes obvious, IMO. So when I said, "If you have to ask, then he doesn't need one" was flippant really. I should have expanded to include this explanation as to why I think that. My point is that if you have to ask, you are not focusing on the needs. Once you do, you will be able to answer the question without much thought. Usually, small steps are introduced to see if they can work without an aide. But even then, you will say, "Gosh, we've tried it without having someone there to keep him on task...now we need to get an aide."

Another thing to remember is when a child has an aide, they might not appreciate having one. Often I hear, "Well, they said he wouldn't like having an aide" as the reason for not providing one. Or as you pointed out, parents or other adults will decide that "kids will tease him" if he has an aide. This has nothing to do with whether a child needs an aide or not and shouldn't really be part of the conversation. If he needs an aide, he needs one whether he likes it or whether other kids will notice he has one. Again, "NEED" is the operative word here. Determine needs first, then determine how to manage those needs. But if he doesn't really like having one, the flip side to this is that in order to "get rid" of the aide, he should start becoming more independent in using the skills being taught to him. That can be a great incentive to the child to improve their skills. It can work for you.

As for people treating him badly because he has an aide, it is usually obvious when a kid is lost in a class anyway. I'd rather my kid be the kid who needs an aide rather than that weird kid who is always getting F's and is always lost, or the kid who spends his time spinning things in the back of the room. In our case, part of having an aide meant I did not spend hours each evening trying to figure out what he needed to do, what he didn't understand, what he forgot to turn in...the list goes on and on. That was a big indication that he needed more help (an aide.) I was trying to be one at home, outside of the classroom. And you know how well that works. <g>

Another thing to consider is the use of "sharing an aide." This might be an option given to you because your ds has milder problems. We had a situation develop with this - my ds had a 1-1 aide who turned into a "shared aide" when another kid with AS was paired with my ds in order to share his aide. I did not complain at first because he didn't need someone holding his hand - just someone there to prompt and keep him on track. So I felt sharing an aide was ok. What we did not see is that the kid he was paired with was a disaster. I never felt the kid really had AS - he was very much ODD. He noticed what other people thought easily, for example, and went out of his way to be mean or annoy them. He enjoyed that as opposed to having it happen without his intending it to. Instead of not knowing how others feel or think, he seemed very good at figuring it out and using it to tease them. He teased my ds for a long time and I didn't know it. He required a LOT of the aide's time and attention, which took away from my kid, who was quiet and never asked for attention. Whenever there was a project to do, he was always paired with this kid and got poor grades or did the work himself. Even with the aide there, the other kid often did not "want" to do his share or work at all, leaving my ds out of the learning process as the aide had to wrestle with the other kid's issues. The crap hit the fan when I discovered that my ds was placed in a remedial science class. Nobody had even mentioned this and at an IEP, they made the "mistake" of inviting the science teacher as the teacher rep for the meeting. She commented that she didn't know why he was in her class, he knew the material already. The discussion led to finding out what her class was exactly and I soon connected the dots and realized he was in that class because this other kid needed to be in that class. So in order to keep "sharing" that aide, they put my kid in the same remedial science class. What a headache. I can barely discuss it without wanting to choke someone, lol.

My point in telling you this story is to keep tabs on things at all times even if you have an aide or have him sharing an aide. Make sure you outline specifically what he needs and what the aide is going to be providing to him. You want data to know if it's working or he is making progress. You want goals/objectives set to be teaching him skills with the ultimate goal for him to be independent. You outline his needs first, then the aide will have a purpose. In getting data, you will check to see how this is working out. And finally, make sure you find out what kind of other kids the aide is having to manage at the same time. Not all AS/HFA are the same, they don't all get along because they have the same problems and some kids have other issues that will negatively impact your ds. It can work if done right. But it can be harmful if done wrong - like everything in sped.

Roxanna

Autism Happens

Re: ( ) Aides in high school?

>

>

> Actually, this isn't true.? My ds did not get an aide until 6th grade.? As the classes became more complex and with the number of teachers to deal with, an aide was required where it was not in elementary school.?

Yes, and the teachers are less and less in a place to do aide-type things for kids as they are teaching along, as the classes are less and less structured that way.

> As for other students figuring out who the aide is for, they would figure out who needs the aide whether there was an aide or not.? They already know which students need help within a class.

You know, this is a good point that I will have to remember to point out to my husband, if it comes to this. In my son's case, if he doesn't have an aide, the teacher is going to have to be willing to do aide-type things. I don't think they will be able to do EVERYTHING in the resource class. And you are right, the other kids will notice he is getting extra help, whether it is from an aide or from the teacher. Another thing I thought of is that the teacher will be less stressed and in better humor if she has help from an aide, and she may be more likely to be more patient and respectful with my son.

Ruth

Wanna slim down for summer? Go to America Takes it Off to learn how.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> It seems like we approach things in opposite ways.? One thing I would do when

discussing an aide is to first discuss his needs and not discuss an aide.? You

would make a list of his educational needs.? Then you go through those needs and

decide how to manage them - some will get accommodations, some modifications -

some have goals and can be taught to him in steps, some require therapy (OT, PT,

ST) etc.? When you come to things that cannot be dealt with without someone

there to directly introduce, cue, prompt, refocus...when that is necessary, you

then have to ask who will do that and how will it be done??? Can he self-direct

himself with a list?? Can teacher help him stay on task with a card taped to his

folder and pointing to what he needs to be doing every so often??

Actually, all this was done, I just didn't put it in my post. The IEP itself

and everything that went into it is way too long to post. And I wouldn't want

to bore you all to death.

My son needs both prompting for inattention and extra help and coaching on

following directions of all sorts, catching non-verbal communications going on,

things of that nature. It is pretty specific and consistent what he needs help

with. I hesitate to get into all the planned interventions because it is so

much and I'm not sure where to start and where to leave off. His IEP, like

everyone's I imagine, is a number of pages long. I'll just suffice to say that

all these things are being addressed. If anyone has specific questions, I'll be

happy to answer them.

Can he have a buddy who can help him stay on task or is that too big of a job

for another child to take on??

You know, people always bring this up, but my son would never in a million years

go for a " buddy " to help him. His GT friends used to do this spontaneously on

their own initiative, but that is different from being assigned a " buddy " .

Nobody at the school ever bothers to bring this up anymore regarding my son LOL.

> Another thing to consider is the use of " sharing an aide. " ? This might be an

option given to you because your ds has milder problems.?

It is not really because his problems are milder. It is more because he just

has very specific things that he would need an aide for, mainly organizational

issues when new assignments are introduced. Like I said above, he has problems

following directions, and he also has problems figuring out what to write down

so he knows what to do later. He doesn't have a conscious handle on his

weaknesses yet.

He needs prompting, but he does fine with the teachers doing that. They develop

signals with him. He's been doing that for several years and it works very well

now. He did resist it at first and had to get used to it. So, now of course

they have a plan for weaning him off the prompts. That is one of his goals.

Ruth