School Testing

[Guest guest]

> it still makes me wonder why they would HAVE to do their own testing?

>

> Hi, Everyone..............I don't know why the school needs their own

> dx. I was surprised at this Dr.'s comment the other day, but I know that

> if I took Gareth off his meds, he would be very autistic. Her comment

> about 'keeping the dx. for future services' really threw me, too. Why

> would I want the autistic dx. if he doesn't have autism?!?!?

> I will also say a prayer for ......hopefully it is ONLY his

> thyroid!!!

>

> <so we could sing Happy Birthday to him> Gail......... It's only been

> in the past couple of years that Gareth has listened to the B-day song!!!

> He has always LOVED opening presents, though........just NO singing

> aloud!!! Sounds like Seth and everyone else had fun.

> Take care, Everyone.

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/31/01 6:16:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,

writes:

> Both of Sara's teacher aids in Nursery School still do not believe that she

> is autistic. They both have been working with children with developmental

> delays for over 20 years, and have had lots of experience with autistic

> children. So who do I believe? There is certainly no doubt that Sara has

> a lot of autistic tendencies, however I'm not really too sure if she is

> really autistic (maybe denial on my part?)

, funny you should mention this at a time when was just evaluated

by the school's psychologist for PDD/autism, of which they came to the

conclusion that he is NOT!! What I'm going to do is get into a

pediatric neurologist, run some more tests besides the EEG, and get a second

opinion from him/her....if he/she decides does have mild PDD or

whatever, I will take those findings to the school and hit them with it!

Just because the school says so, their decision isn't the last word! If you

ask me, I think they just said doesn't have it, so they can deny him

additional services normally extended to the autism group, because of special

IEP's, behavior mod's, and different strategies in school, which they don't

want to have to pay for!

My neighbor went through this too, at the same school district, and she says

the psychologist they use aren't really that.....they are diagnostitians with

a degree but not really a medical professional.....how can they rule over a

doctor's medical opinion?? Their argument to that is that autism/PDD is NOT

a medical condition you can test determine by lab testing, whatever.....

We'll see.....

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/31/01 6:16:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,

writes:

> Both of Sara's teacher aids in Nursery School still do not believe that she

> is autistic. They both have been working with children with developmental

> delays for over 20 years, and have had lots of experience with autistic

> children. So who do I believe? There is certainly no doubt that Sara has

> a lot of autistic tendencies, however I'm not really too sure if she is

> really autistic (maybe denial on my part?)

, funny you should mention this at a time when was just evaluated

by the school's psychologist for PDD/autism, of which they came to the

conclusion that he is NOT!! What I'm going to do is get into a

pediatric neurologist, run some more tests besides the EEG, and get a second

opinion from him/her....if he/she decides does have mild PDD or

whatever, I will take those findings to the school and hit them with it!

Just because the school says so, their decision isn't the last word! If you

ask me, I think they just said doesn't have it, so they can deny him

additional services normally extended to the autism group, because of special

IEP's, behavior mod's, and different strategies in school, which they don't

want to have to pay for!

My neighbor went through this too, at the same school district, and she says

the psychologist they use aren't really that.....they are diagnostitians with

a degree but not really a medical professional.....how can they rule over a

doctor's medical opinion?? Their argument to that is that autism/PDD is NOT

a medical condition you can test determine by lab testing, whatever.....

We'll see.....

[Guest guest]

Matt went through all of this earlier this year. We heard the same kind

of things you guys are hearing. I kept telling them that " autism is a

medical diagnosis with specific educational implications " . Very

frustrating.

But here, the psychologist (School) does not do the diagnosing. And keep

in mind that a school psychologist is totally different from a clinical

psychologist. School psych's are qualified to administer and interpret

educational testing. They are not psychologists that have therapy

" sessions " , behavior modification stuff. I really think the name " School

psychologist " is somewhat confusing. Anyway....

Here, in Nevada, a Speech and Language Therapist does the " diagnosing " .

Not the same one who sees Matt on a regular basis, but someone who is a

member of the " Low Incidence Team " . They do lots of diagnosing. She

admitted to me that based on her observations of Matt in the various

classrooms and her interview with him and his teachers, he did not meet

their criteria. But, after her interview with me, when I told her all the

history, and provided copies of " Disability Solutions " , she agreed and

even strongly recommended that Matt's " eligibility " be changed from

" Mentally Retarded " (Or whatever they use for that term) to " autistic "

for the primary disabling condition. NOt that anyone looks at that, they

still see DOwn's and stop there, but I can and do constantly referr them

to his records that confirm that Matt is autistic and interventions need

to devised with that in mind.

Keep your spirits up. They will eventually " get it " .

S

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[Guest guest]

I think whatr always gets me, is that if your child has any improvement so

that transitions are easier and there are no meltdowns they think they can

remove the autistm label---like it goes away or something. All it means is

he is well-supported and has the tools he needs to deal with things. Hello?

When they did Andy's eligibility meeting I'll not forget that the school

psych wasn't familiar with the IQ test they used at KKI. It's a really

basic one. I tell that story often.

j

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/1/01 6:04:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

writes:

> But, after her interview with me, when I told her all the

> history, and provided copies of " Disability Solutions " , she agreed and

> even strongly recommended that Matt's " eligibility " be changed from

> " Mentally Retarded " (Or whatever they use for that term) to " autistic "

> for the primary disabling condition. NOt that anyone looks at that, they

> still see DOwn's and stop there, but I can and do constantly referr them

> to his records that confirm that Matt is autistic and interventions need

> to devised with that in mind.

>

>

, good points you've made! Sometimes, I wonder if we'd be fighting half

these battles if our kids didn't have the DS, but the other

" stuff " ........they seem to place all the blame on Down Syndrome/MR, but we

all know there is something else going on with our kids!

My neighbor, who has a mentally challenged daughter and went through the same

school district I am, told me the school never gets it, and there opinions

are carved in stone unless you put up a good fight! They stick together like

thieves in the night.....wonder what they're gonna do when I get another doc

to evaluate and submit those findings to them??

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/6/2006 12:06:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

carrie.schwettman@... writes:

If testing is done outside of the school, does the school generally accept

it readily or do they still insist on their own testing? Thanks for all of

you insight.

-

I don't know the answer to that question for sure. I can't imagine WHY a

school wouldn't acknowledge testing done by an outside source. Especially if

you can find some place that will test your child with a nationally recognized

method.... again, I'm out of my area of knowledge here, as I've never had my

kids tested. But common sense would dictate that there ARE such places.

Maybe a search on the Internet will turn something up. Maybe your school could

recommend a private resource.

If I come across anything, I will let you know.

LT

[Guest guest]

If testing is done outside of the school, does the school generally accept it

readily or do they still insist on their own testing? Thanks for all of you

insight.

jtlt@... wrote:

In a message dated 4/6/2006 9:21:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

k.zarzour@... writes:

The school testing, we found out later, is done cheap and quick and misses

many - especially those kids like ours who have other issues.

Kim -

Exactly - I don't have much faith in school tests. Personal opinion - but I

think they screw them up too much. They try to concentrate too much on

what's important just in their school/district/state and don't focus on an

overall knowledge base or reasoning based test. Like I mentioned before, I

would

suggest parents check into something outside the school district for this.

LT

[Guest guest]

Ours accepted. We got the referral from our pediatrician, who told us that this

particular psychologist had a good reputation and findings were upheld by the

school board. No further testing was necessary. I'd ask around.

kimz

Re: Re: School Testing

If testing is done outside of the school, does the school generally accept it

readily or do they still insist on their own testing? Thanks for all of you

insight.

jtlt@... wrote:

In a message dated 4/6/2006 9:21:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

k.zarzour@... writes:

The school testing, we found out later, is done cheap and quick and misses

many - especially those kids like ours who have other issues.

Kim -

Exactly - I don't have much faith in school tests. Personal opinion - but I

think they screw them up too much. They try to concentrate too much on

what's important just in their school/district/state and don't focus on an

overall knowledge base or reasoning based test. Like I mentioned before, I

would

suggest parents check into something outside the school district for this.

LT

[Guest guest]

If I recall correctly, schools don't have to accept outside

evaluations. I would think most do, and if not they should put the

reasons in writing.

>

> If testing is done outside of the school, does the school generally

accept it readily or do they still insist on their own testing?

Thanks for all of you insight.

>

[Guest guest]

writes:

If testing is done outside of the school, does the school generally accept

it readily or do they still insist on their own testing? Thanks for all of

you insight.

*********I'm on the GATE advisory committee for our school district (as a

parent). Both my OCD girls are also GATE students. I believe it varies by

district, but in our district they don't do IQ tests. The only time my

daughter's IQ was tested was when she was hospitalized nearly 3 years ago. The

GATE

testing often goes by who is in the top percentile of testing rather than a

true IQ test. There are also quite a few nonverbal tests for giftedness such

as the Structure of Intelligence Test (SOI), but again, I don't know if they

give an IQ number.

At a presentation I attended about gifted kids several years ago, I was very

interested to see how MANY " gifted " tendencies are similar to OCD -- being

overly anxious about the news, perfectionist, studying in weird ways, hating

tags in their clothes, bossy, wanting to change the rules.... there are SO MANY

similarities.... suzanne in CA

[Guest guest]

Actually I believe they are required to accept outside testing, if I remember

correctly. There is certainly something written about it in IDEA, and I recall

that the schools never blinked when I presented them with testing for both of my

kids which I had arranged for and paid for myself. I'm sure there is something

about this on the slaw website.

<@...> wrote:

If I recall correctly, schools don't have to accept outside

evaluations. I would think most do, and if not they should put the

reasons in writing.

>

> If testing is done outside of the school, does the school generally

accept it readily or do they still insist on their own testing?

Thanks for all of you insight.

>

Our list archives, bookmarks, files, and chat feature may be accessed at:

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Our list advisors are Gail B. , Ed.D., Tamar Chansky, Ph.D.(

http://www.worrywisekids.org ), Dan Geller, M.D.,Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., (

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louisharkins@... .

[Guest guest]

Hmm... I guess my memory was fuzzy - sorry! " Consider " is a very flexible term,

so obviously it depends on the district. I didn't have any problems using

outside testing, but then, our district has so little money that I guess they

would do anything to have the parents pay! What I was remembering, I guess, is

that you have an absolute right to have and to present an independent

assessment, and the school district is required to tell you where you can get

such an assessment (if you trust their judgement!), but all they really have to

do is consider the final results, not agree with them. Because our school

district is pretty " small town " , they seem to have a huge respect for

professional opinions. I can't imagine them not accepting results from someone

with a Ph.D. or an MD. That would not have been the case in other places we've

lived.

<@...> wrote:

Found this on the topic at slaw, as suggested. I

guess " consider " is the key word. I think they'd have a hard time not

accepting other testing to use in planning for a child though.

" When a parent presents an independent evaluation to the school

district, the IEP team is required to consider the evaluation. This

does not mean that the school district must accept the findings or

recommendations in the IEE. It does means that the IEP team must

review the IEE, and discuss it as appropriate. In this regard, the

requirements placed on school districts are fairly minimal. "

http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/test.iee.steedman.htm

By the way, for all those new to dealing with schools, slaw is

one of the BEST places to find info.

Our list archives, bookmarks, files, and chat feature may be accessed at:

/ .

Our list advisors are Gail B. , Ed.D., Tamar Chansky, Ph.D.(

http://www.worrywisekids.org ), Dan Geller, M.D.,Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., (

http://www.lighthouse-press.com ). Our list moderators are Birkhan, Chris

Castle, Fowler, Kathy Hammes, Joye, Kathy Mac, Gail Pesses,

and Kathy . Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis

Harkins, list owner, at louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... ,

louisharkins@... .

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/6/2006 3:06:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,

em.fowler@... writes:

Actually I believe they are required to accept outside testing, if I

remember correctly.

- Chris:

Could it be that each school district or state might have a their own policy

on this? Parents might be able to find information on it in their local

school district website under school board policies - I know ours has all that

on the Internet. I would think most do.

Just a thought.

LT

[Guest guest]

Our school district required one of their school psychologists to review all

testing to determine whether they would accept it. Our testing was accepted.

But I heard of a case here where the school district rejected testing for some

child that was done at s Hopkins in Baltimore! That came as a shock since

s Hopkins is so highly respected. But of course, I don't know the details

of that case.

Janie

Schwettman <carrie.schwettman@...> wrote:

If testing is done outside of the school, does the school generally accept it

readily or do they still insist on their own testing? Thanks for all of you

insight.

jtlt@... wrote:

In a message dated 4/6/2006 9:21:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

k.zarzour@... writes:

The school testing, we found out later, is done cheap and quick and misses

many - especially those kids like ours who have other issues.

Kim -

Exactly - I don't have much faith in school tests. Personal opinion - but I

think they screw them up too much. They try to concentrate too much on

what's important just in their school/district/state and don't focus on an

overall knowledge base or reasoning based test. Like I mentioned before, I

would

suggest parents check into something outside the school district for this.

LT

[Guest guest]

Thank you Lorie

[Guest guest]

oh PS I sent the WSJ article to firstlabs with the comment WHAT ARE TOU GUYS THINKING

[Guest guest]

prairie home companion ...POWDER HOME BISQUITS ..... eeeshh that was 2 years ago..Once again how far has this test gone..CODE RED

[Guest guest]

Seems we're not the only ones connecting the dots between EtG and school testing. Read this, dated December 2005: http://minnesota.publicradio.org/your_voice/commentaries/2005/12/051228.php

Many of us know from our own experience how hard it is to stop this once it's started. Maybe we can prevent it from permeating school testing programs.

Re: School testing

Thank you Lorie

[Guest guest]

--- http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa501.pdf

http://www.getmadd.com/VirtualProhibition.htm

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Controversies/1122657771.html

http://www.freemarketnews.com/Analysis/97/2571/2005-11-10.asp?

wid=97 & nid=2571

In Ethylglucuronide , lilibit007@... wrote:

>

> Thank you Lorie

>

[Guest guest]

I love it!!!thanks :0) Joylilibit007@... wrote: oh PS I sent the WSJ article to firstlabs with the comment WHAT ARE TOU GUYS THINKING

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

I am a newbie to this support group and relatively new to the aspie

world. My daughter was just tested by the school district at the end

of last year.

It seems that because she didn't meet every single criteria,

regardless of how she much she " qualified " in the many areas she did,

she was not diagnosed with aspergers. However, they did feel that

something " still wasn't quite right " so she was given an " emotional

disturbance code " just to get more services than her current IEP was

providing.

After doing more research after the meeting it was astonishing clear

to me how different aspie boys are from aspie girls and how " generic "

the testing seemed to be, giving preference to the characteristics

that boys seem to display. At least the ones that seem to divide the

genders.

The school has assured me that with the ED code she is getting the

same services as if she were found to be aspie although I feel that

it's more about how she's handled rather than how many minutes a week

she gets small group instruction that has proved to do about nothing

in the 4 years she's had an IEP anyway.

It feels like every day I take her to school is the first day of

kindergarten for a first time parent. I worry about her feeling safe,

feeling like she knows someone, or more important, like someone knows

her. Worrying that she will get teased, or lost, or have a meltdown.

She's in 5th grade, for the second time.

I guess my question is, has anyone else experienced the same w/ school

testing? The few stories of friends' freinds seemed to all have the

same experience with school testing.

[Guest guest]

Sorry for the late reply but I was out of contact for a week.

Schools have testing for the purpose of determining whether or not a

child meets the qualifications for Special Ed (IEP). They cannot and

do not diagnose children with any type of disorder. Even if you have

a diagnosis from a psychiatrist that does not guarantee that they

will qualify for special ed. By federal and most states(I believe)

law the school must follow very strict guidelines for determining

qualification. Once your child is in the special ed program (IEP) it

really doesn't matter what catagory they qualify under they are

entitled to the same programs and rights under the law. You can work

with the school to have any accomedation you deem necessary whether

your child qualifies for an IEP as EBD (emotional behavior

disturbance) or Autism. However, with that said, certain benefits

need to meet special criteria to be handled by the school. For

example, if your doctor feels that your daughter has fine or gross

moter skills problems that does not mean that the school is required

to provide physical or occupational therepy for your daughter. She

must meet the requirements according to federal law that show a

deficiency in school related areas in order to qualify.

My recomendation is see if you can have your daughter nuero-

psycoloically tested. Check with a local childrens hospital in the

psychiatry department. This will provide you will a medical

diagnosis as well as specific deficincy areas that you can then take

to the school to have specific accomidations written into your IEP.

I hope this helps. Email me back if you have any questions or want

more of my opinion. baneline1@...

Vickie

>

> I am a newbie to this support group and relatively new to the aspie

> world. My daughter was just tested by the school district at the

end

> of last year.

>

> It seems that because she didn't meet every single criteria,

> regardless of how she much she " qualified " in the many areas she

did,

> she was not diagnosed with aspergers. However, they did feel that

> something " still wasn't quite right " so she was given an " emotional

> disturbance code " just to get more services than her current IEP was

> providing.

>

> After doing more research after the meeting it was astonishing clear

> to me how different aspie boys are from aspie girls and

how " generic "

> the testing seemed to be, giving preference to the characteristics

> that boys seem to display. At least the ones that seem to divide

the

> genders.

>

> The school has assured me that with the ED code she is getting the

> same services as if she were found to be aspie although I feel that

> it's more about how she's handled rather than how many minutes a

week

> she gets small group instruction that has proved to do about nothing

> in the 4 years she's had an IEP anyway.

>

> It feels like every day I take her to school is the first day of

> kindergarten for a first time parent. I worry about her feeling

safe,

> feeling like she knows someone, or more important, like someone

knows

> her. Worrying that she will get teased, or lost, or have a

meltdown.

> She's in 5th grade, for the second time.

>

> I guess my question is, has anyone else experienced the same w/

school

> testing? The few stories of friends' freinds seemed to all have the

> same experience with school testing.

>