Guest guest Posted May 11, 2008 Report Share Posted May 11, 2008 Ever since we oldtimers on this forum got LDN and Bihari's work and success with LDN out in the public and we started making noise and getting clinical trials going all of a sudden Zagon gets approval from the NMSS to do research on LDN for MS and mud slinging started coming from Zagon supporters against Bihari. People on this forum including myself got private phone calls from people in with Zagon's department saying Bihari was a loon and they praised Zagon and tried to get me on Zagon's side and to bad mouth Bihari, well I didn't fall for the dirty plot. I had respect for Zagon until I got called over a year ago. I don't know what the hell is going on with Zagon and his followers and staff but I'm getting sick of this mud slinging crap from Zagon's side. It's showing his severe insecurity and jealousy over LDN and Bihari getting the notoriety. I have kept this inside long enough, it's about time somebdy say something. I think Cindi Lenz got one of these phone calls like I did. Didn't you Cindi? I'm so freaking MAD I can't remember how you spell your first name, Cyndi or Cindi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2008 Report Share Posted May 11, 2008 Dee, I think everyone should be allowed to decide for themselves, it is interesting to get another point of view, I have no problem with it, though am sticking with the night time dosing, I do though, find it interesting to read other opinions, as without a research or Doctor Badge we are all at the mercy of what we can glean for ourselves, so I have no problem with the recent discussion, rather, I find it interesting........ Best Celia [low dose naltrexone] Member's post There is a member on the LDN4cancer site who has issue with the LDNdosing "Time" at night... She doesn't think the "night time" dosingis not the only time but anytime during the day.Below is her current email to the group. Maybe someone here cancontribute? I quoted 's previous posts to no avail."First, as I have privately, I would like to thankyou for starting this forum. I think it was andis a very courageous thing to do and I admirethe spirit in which it was begun. You have madeavailable to all of us, a very good opportunityto participate in this discussion and learn a greatdeal about fighting cancer. And as for posting yourmedical records, I applaud you for that and wouldencourage you, if you haven't already done so,to describe in detail your LDN protocol alongwith all supplemental therapies you are using.I would also urge you and everyone else herefind a way where we can collect our individualmedical records and LDN protocols in order tojustify a possible request to the NIH for clinicaltrials. I would like to discuss with you privatelythe possibility of posting my own records alongwith yours for the purposes stated above andfor purposes of setting an example and of puttingmy money where my mouth is, so to speak.One of the reasons you are still alive is that IanZagon discovered a mechanism triggered by naltrexone.He didn't tell Bihari about it, Bihari read it in thepaperDr. Zagon wrote to report the discovery and contactedIan Zagon. True, Bihari took LDN himself but such asolipsistic approach does not adequately replaceclinicaltrials. Bihari seized on Dr. Zagon's research,applyingthe rat model directly to humans without furtherresearch.This was reckless and he was fortunate no payingpatientsuffered and died as a result. Still the AIDs studyrevealsthat some lost their lives under his care. But thesewereAIDs patients and their deaths were not alarming. And'extensive use' of LDN is hardly what you would callitsuse by three to five hundred people.What you call "randomized....as the medical industrylike(s) to propagate" is known as scientific method.This is very desirable. The alternative is a sort ofmodern'witch doctoring'. There is a large element of thisin ourusing LDN without knowing for a scientific certaintythatLDN will have positive effects within our individualbodychemistries and on our particular cancers. We are allwilling to take whatever are the associated risks inexchange for the potential benefits, but that does notinany way reduce the desirability of clinical trials.The completion of such trials would make LDN therapyimmediately available to people who, like Tiaq, needscientific evidence of LDN's efficacy.But something like religious fervor has got be at thesource of this dosing dogma. How can you insist thatsomeone take LDN at night if they're having serioussleepdisturbances or having severe pain which demands theuse of opiates? Research has come a long way sinceBiharibegan treating people with LDN. It is very good thatmanypeople are helped by LDN, but at the same timethousandsand thousands more are not being helped becauseBihari'swilly-nilly approach has given such a bad name to LDNinthe minds of those professionals in the medicalcommunitywho could otherwise prescribe LDN in so many settings.And as I said, scientific knowledge is not static orabsoluteand so it would behoove everyone in the LDN communityto make themselves aware of why and how the drugthey're using is helping them or not, and not justrely onthe repetitious drone of Bihari dogma.I'm not suggesting that you change your dosingschedule,but I do think it is problematic that you insistothers followthat ritual. And Dee, you have at least twice that I'mawareof, given that advice to people who were havingseriousproblems with night time dosing. I think such adviceisbeyond the scope of this forum, and without knowledgeof a person's complete medical history, none of us isequippedto prescribe any protocol.I agree both Bihari and Zagon have made contributions,but I remind you again that Dr. Zagon discovered theLDNeffect using rat models. And he and his team arecontinuingresearch in human subjects in the context of the PennStateSchool of Medicine where Dr. Zagon is a distinguishedprofessorof medicine at the graduate level. And Bihari tookthat researchtwenty years ago and prematurely and applied it tohumans.You took that leap of faith which you disparage,apparentlyunknowingly. So I urge you and everyone interested inLDNto take a look at this link which gives a briefoverview of whatDr. Zagon and his team are doing.http://www.hmc.psu.edu/neuroscienceresearch/admin/facultybiopages/zagon.htmYou will see that Dr. Zagon's research is applied tohumanneeds. And on the point you make that his work islimited to lab animals, I must vigorously disagree.Hiswork proceeds in the way that scientific methodrequires,and again I suggest strongly that we as patients usingLDN familiarize ourselves with how and why it works asit does. I also strongly urge anyone who isinterested inmaking this treatment, this very compassionatetreatment,available to more and more people, to contribute toandsupport the work, the research and the clinical trialsbeingconducted by Ian Zagon and his colleagues. The workis time consuming and costly, exacting and intricate.We all owe a debt of gratitude to this man ofhonorablemotivation and his inspired team. So please, no morederision of him and his work. Let's give each his dueand not get caught up in egos and personalities, butwhere there has been error let's acknowledge it andmove on with open and transparent discussion."Respectfully, Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2008 Report Share Posted May 11, 2008 HOW DARNED PETTY CAN OUR PROFESSIONALS GET? a doctor wanting the praise of another doctor!! I'M SHOCKED!!! marshiris@...Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 2008 Report Share Posted May 11, 2008 God, how sad. It is unbelievable to me, the lengths that some people will go to in the name of money & notariety. > > > Ever since we oldtimers on this forum got LDN and Bihari's work and > success with LDN out in the public and we started making noise and > getting clinical trials going all of a sudden Zagon gets approval from > the NMSS to do research on LDN for MS and mud slinging started coming > from Zagon supporters against Bihari. People on this forum including > myself got private phone calls from people in with Zagon's department > saying Bihari was a loon and they praised Zagon and tried to get me on > Zagon's side and to bad mouth Bihari, well I didn't fall for the dirty > plot. I had respect for Zagon until I got called over a year ago. I > don't know what the hell is going on with Zagon and his followers and > staff but I'm getting sick of this mud slinging crap from Zagon's > side. It's showing his severe insecurity and jealousy over LDN and > Bihari getting the notoriety. > > I have kept this inside long enough, it's about time somebdy say > something. > > I think Cindi Lenz got one of these phone calls like I did. Didn't > you Cindi? I'm so freaking MAD I can't remember how you spell your > first name, Cyndi or Cindi. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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