Re: total defiance and big mouth

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I am so sorry to hear about your child.  There is so much you are dealing with

and I can imagine how difficult it is for your family to handle.  I remember at

several of the DAN! conferences the doctors talking about behaviors that are so

out of control.  They all said the same thing:  medicate for behavior so life

becomes bearable and while medicating, heal the body.  That's what I would

recommend.  Also, since behaviors worsen during full moon week, medicating for

parasites might be in order.  There are many kinds of parasites, but all seem

to be worse during the moon cycles.

nancy j

working towards recovery

searching for a cure

From: thesweetattack <thesweetattack@...>

Subject: total defiance and big mouth

Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 6:58 AM

 

Hello Everyone,

I am looking to you all for help. My PDD, ketotic hypoglycemic 7yr old female

who has had many yeast and bacteria issues, and has been on the yeast protocal

for almost 2 years, now has the chicken pox mildly and large lymph nodes that

have erupted all over her body. So I can understand the heightened horrible

behavior. But even without all these extra raised issues, the one constant

remains,----her total defiance and big mouth. throwing stuff at me, hitting me,

total refusal to pick up, put away anything, total destruction of our home,

absolute rude behavior and mean talk, loud talking, constant interrupting.

WE have tried discipline, time-out, spanking, taking things away, removing

actitivies etc. WE 've tried sticker charts, goal sheets, special events for

her to work towards and nothing works... She has driven a wedge between all of

us, my husband just has no time for her anymore, and my 10 year son Hates her,

this

behavior just is not getting any better, with 3 years of help from

behavioralist and TSS people that help in home and community--------and any

social event we are avoided like the plague as families do not want their kids

hanging around " that girl " -- and I honestly don't blame, she is behaving

horribly..

Can anyone relate, and what do you do. we have been thru all the food allergy

tests she is GF/CF/ Egg free, Dye free, and yes we know it is full moon week

which also adds to all this. She had all the bacteria and yeast tests done,

and all the nutrient deficiency test done which we have been correcting for over

a year as well.. But no matter what, this horrible defiant, just

absolutely possessed child behavior continues. Adn we feel like our only option

is to go to the typical medicine. Over 2 years ago they had put her on

adderal because she was jsut running out into the street, and ran into the

sides of moving cars already, has undone her seat belt and opened doors to the

car while we are driving, undressed and thrown her clothes out the windows, Has

tried to climb out on our 2nd story roof from her bedroom window, has pushed

chairs down the steps, as well as all her clothes and many other things. Dumped

bottles and bottles of

shampoo, soap, oil, anythign she can get her hands in --to make a skating rink

on our carpet---jumped all over our house furniture and bed in many instances

while urinating and rolling in it, taken her poop out of the toilet and drawn

all over our walls with it--- I think you get the picture. This is her

history, but the ugly defiance is the worse--yes this is all horrible and is a

pain and very expensive to clean up, and it goes away after time, but the

mouth and nasty behavior remains.

Our family is understandably falling apart, I understand this is some behavior

she cannot control, and she is not doing it on purpose, something inside her is

terribly off, we jsut do not know what else to do..

please help.

Jen trovinger

[Guest guest]

the full moon is so true.. the other night my son was completely off the

wall behavior-wise and I thought it must be a full moon .. when I looked out

sure enough it was.

 

Sweetattack,

 

Have you tried calming supplements like magnesium, calcium, min chex. or supps

to support adrenal gland function.. kids with poor adrenal function produce low

cortisol which can cause them to get super aggressive. the two articles

below talk about boys but I think it applies to girls as well

 

 

read:Rebel without a hormone..

 

http://intro2psych.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/rebel-without-a-hormone/

 

Low Levels Of Salivary Cortisol Associated With Aggressive Behavior

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/01/000120073039.htm

From: thesweetattack <thesweetattack@...>

Subject: total defiance and big mouth

Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 6:58 AM

 

Hello Everyone,

I am looking to you all for help. My PDD, ketotic hypoglycemic 7yr old female

who has had many yeast and bacteria issues, and has been on the yeast protocal

for almost 2 years, now has the chicken pox mildly and large lymph nodes that

have erupted all over her body. So I can understand the heightened horrible

behavior. But even without all these extra raised issues, the one constant

remains,----her total defiance and big mouth. throwing stuff at me, hitting me,

total refusal to pick up, put away anything, total destruction of our home,

absolute rude behavior and mean talk, loud talking, constant interrupting. WE

have tried discipline, time-out, spanking, taking things away, removing

actitivies etc. WE 've tried sticker charts, goal sheets, special events for her

to work towards and nothing works... She has driven a wedge between all of us,

my husband just has no time for her anymore, and my 10 year son Hates her, this

behavior just is not getting any better, with 3 years of help from behavioralist

and TSS people that help in home and community--------and any social event we

are avoided like the plague as families do not want their kids hanging around

" that girl " -- and I honestly don't blame, she is behaving horribly..

Can anyone relate, and what do you do. we have been thru all the food allergy

tests she is GF/CF/ Egg free, Dye free, and yes we know it is full moon week

which also adds to all this. She had all the bacteria and yeast tests done, and

all the nutrient deficiency test done which we have been correcting for over a

year as well.. But no matter what, this horrible defiant, just absolutely

possessed child behavior continues. Adn we feel like our only option is to go to

the typical medicine. Over 2 years ago they had put her on adderal because she

was jsut running out into the street, and ran into the sides of moving cars

already, has undone her seat belt and opened doors to the car while we are

driving, undressed and thrown her clothes out the windows, Has tried to climb

out on our 2nd story roof from her bedroom window, has pushed chairs down the

steps, as well as all her clothes and many other things. Dumped bottles and

bottles of

shampoo, soap, oil, anythign she can get her hands in --to make a skating rink

on our carpet---jumped all over our house furniture and bed in many instances

while urinating and rolling in it, taken her poop out of the toilet and drawn

all over our walls with it--- I think you get the picture. This is her history,

but the ugly defiance is the worse--yes this is all horrible and is a pain and

very expensive to clean up, and it goes away after time, but the mouth and nasty

behavior remains.

Our family is understandably falling apart, I understand this is some behavior

she cannot control, and she is not doing it on purpose, something inside her is

terribly off, we jsut do not know what else to do..

please help.

Jen trovinger

[Guest guest]

Wow have you considered doing a week live in at the son rise program it is

expensive but you may qualify for a grant. You may want to call them. In the

meantime have you considered risperdal or abilify both have an FDA indication

for asd or tegretol to take the edge off. This is something to explore with a

child psychiatrist. I usally do not recommend or consider meds except as a last

result but things seem really out of control for you and your family and tearing

your family apart. The other thing is have you checked if metal toxicity is an

issue and possibly a cause for most of these signs and symptoms. Does your Dan

doc have any ideas?

Good luck

Tisha

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

total defiance and big mouth

Hello Everyone,

I am looking to you all for help. My PDD, ketotic hypoglycemic 7yr old female

who has had many yeast and bacteria issues, and has been on the yeast protocal

for almost 2 years, now has the chicken pox mildly and large lymph nodes that

have erupted all over her body. So I can understand the heightened horrible

behavior. But even without all these extra raised issues, the one constant

remains,----her total defiance and big mouth. throwing stuff at me, hitting me,

total refusal to pick up, put away anything, total destruction of our home,

absolute rude behavior and mean talk, loud talking, constant interrupting.

WE have tried discipline, time-out, spanking, taking things away, removing

actitivies etc. WE 've tried sticker charts, goal sheets, special events for

her to work towards and nothing works... She has driven a wedge between all of

us, my husband just has no time for her anymore, and my 10 year son Hates her,

this behavior just is not gettin

g any better, with 3 years of help from behavioralist and TSS people that help

in home and community--------and any social event we are avoided like the

plague as families do not want their kids hanging around " that girl " -- and I

honestly don't blame, she is behaving horribly..

Can anyone relate, and what do you do. we have been thru all the food allergy

tests she is GF/CF/ Egg free, Dye free, and yes we know it is full moon week

which also adds to all this. She had all the bacteria and yeast tests done,

and all the nutrient deficiency test done which we have been correcting for over

a year as well.. But no matter what, this horrible defiant, just

absolutely possessed child behavior continues. Adn we feel like our only option

is to go to the typical medicine. Over 2 years ago they had put her on

adderal because she was jsut running out into the street, and ran into the

sides of moving cars already, has undone her seat belt and opened doors to the

car while we are driving, undressed and thrown her clothes out the windows, Has

tried to climb out on our 2nd story roof from her bedroom window, has pushed

chairs down the steps, as well as all her clothes and many other things. Dumped

bottles and bottles of shampoo, soap, oil, anyt

hign she can get her hands in --to make a skating rink on our carpet---jumped

all over our house furniture and bed in many instances while urinating and

rolling in it, taken her poop out of the toilet and drawn all over our walls

with it--- I think you get the picture. This is her history, but the ugly

defiance is the worse--yes this is all horrible and is a pain and very expensive

to clean up, and it goes away after time, but the mouth and nasty behavior

remains.

Our family is understandably falling apart, I understand this is some behavior

she cannot control, and she is not doing it on purpose, something inside her is

terribly off, we jsut do not know what else to do..

please help.

Jen trovinger

[Guest guest]

Oh Jen hon, I am so so sorry you're going through this. I know how truelly

horrible it is because I've been through it...twice. My daughter got almost 100%

better with prosac. Her stability lasted for 8 years until she hit puberty and

we had to add Abilify. My son was and still is a whole other story:) He was not

easy to stabilize at all. I should say that my kids were first diagnosed as

Bipolar, and not diagnosed as autistic until a few years ago. I'm not sure if

they are Bipolar as well as autistic, the symptoms are so very similar. Bipolar

disorder does come comorbid with autism sometimes, so does adhd and a few other

" mental Health issues " . It seems some kids with autism are calm and quiet, some

are holy terrors(mine:) ) and then there are all the ones in between. I often

feel like I am the only one who has an autistic child who is just so volitile,

angry, mean , and out of control. Both of my kids did everything that you are

describing about your kid. My daughter's behaviors were able to get under

control with medication, my son's were able to get better but not gone. I know

medication gets a really bad wrap, but there are safe ways to use them for

people who really need them. The simple fact is some people really do need

them.When behaviors and emotions are controlling everything in your life,

medication is needed. This of course is only my opinion, an experienced opinion

as I'm Bipolar myself and did research for years for my kids when I thought they

were Bipolar, so take it as you will. My son's worst behaviors, like trying to

jump out of a moving car etc were helped tremendously with Risperdal. I would

try aderall or adhd meds as last choice....or try them and if you see an

immediate negative reaction quit the drug. In My experience it only hightens the

emotions and behaviors. The good thing is it is out of the system really

quickly. You want to lean more towards a mood stabilizing medication like an

anticonvulsant, or antipsychotic, or lithium. I'v ealso heard of a lot of

prescribing doctors not practicing testing liver function every 3-6 months. This

is 100% necissary to be sure your child's body is handling the meds ok,a nd that

they are staying in her system at a therapeutic level. So if your Doc doesn't

bring it up, you bring it up to him. My son has tried almost every med there is.

He had a bad liver reaction to one of them.We quickly caught it with a blood

draw, removed the med, and he was back to normal in a week. If they don't test

and it goes on too long, it can become a very severe and permanent issue. I

swwear to you when I read your post it was just like reading my own story. My

kids have done, and my sons till does do a lot of the things that you described.

I know the strain it puts on you and your family. I know the social isolation,

even if you happen to have a few friends who are understanding. Remove the

guilt, it is not your fault and you have not caused this.Neither has your

daughter. Go to therapy if you need to, but any way you can communicate with

your husband. Become a team against the world, not adversaries. You're on the

same side and sometimes you need to speak about it and focus on it to strengthen

the bond and not lose your marriage. Also try to focus on together on the love

you have for your daughter. I know some people will be horrified to hear, that

it can be quite hard to love a child who is going through what our kids go

through. It's not permanent, it's not like you don't love them, but it can be

really hard to feel that love when you are constantly getting negative feedback

and are under attack. I really believe I suffer from PTSD from going through all

this with my kids. Take care of yourself, take care of your marriage. This will

pass, it will get better and you don't need to lose everything in the process.

My husband had to help bring me back and focus on the love that I did have for

my child, even though it was hard to feel at times. Let go of your anger, let go

of your resentment, and let go of your guilt. Those are poisonous and

detremental to what you want to accomplish. There is no blame in this

situation.Not for you, not for your daughter. She is sick, she is not

missbehaving. If you can focus on that ( I have to chant it in my head as a

mantra at times ), it makes it a lot easier to get throug the episodes and

start to conquer this problem. Once you get meds under control, if you go that

route, the ABA will be much more effective. You have to be ready to fight tooth

and nail because our kids make stubborn an art form. They will try to win at all

costs.You'll get it under control only for her to decide to test again. Once she

gets the idea that you are not giving up and not backing down she will start to

behave for you. For now not all the discipline in the world will help...she

can't control herself. If you need any info feel free to e-mail me

[Guest guest]

HI Jen, My son is very similar. He does a lot of the same stuff. I am using

neurotransmitters, which are not helping much. I have recently taken my son to

a pediatric psychiatrist who suggested medication. He said there is no way a 7

year old should be walking around this keyed up and anxious. And to get him to

be able to participate in and benefit from the necessary therapies, he needs

medication. That is definitely our next step. My friends son has similar

behaviors to your daughter and my son and the only things that helped him was

medication. She told me good luck getting him regulated without medication, it

just doesn't happen. I agree with the other lady, some times meds are needed.

You did not have kids to be miserable or to loss yourself, your family and your

marriage over. You have tried everything, as have I, so why not give this a

try. Good luck, I feel your pain, Kim

total defiance and big mouth

Hello Everyone,

I am looking to you all for help. My PDD, ketotic hypoglycemic 7yr old female

who has had many yeast and bacteria issues, and has been on the yeast protocal

for almost 2 years, now has the chicken pox mildly and large lymph nodes that

have erupted all over her body. So I can understand the heightened horrible

behavior. But even without all these extra raised issues, the one constant

remains,----her total defiance and big mouth. throwing stuff at me, hitting me,

total refusal to pick up, put away anything, total destruction of our home,

absolute rude behavior and mean talk, loud talking, constant interrupting. WE

have tried discipline, time-out, spanking, taking things away, removing

actitivies etc. WE 've tried sticker charts, goal sheets, special events for her

to work towards and nothing works... She has driven a wedge between all of us,

my husband just has no time for her anymore, and my 10 year son Hates her, this

behavior just is not gettin

g any better, with 3 years of help from behavioralist and TSS people that help

in home and community--------and any social event we are avoided like the plague

as families do not want their kids hanging around " that girl " -- and I honestly

don't blame, she is behaving horribly..

Can anyone relate, and what do you do. we have been thru all the food allergy

tests she is GF/CF/ Egg free, Dye free, and yes we know it is full moon week

which also adds to all this. She had all the bacteria and yeast tests done, and

all the nutrient deficiency test done which we have been correcting for over a

year as well.. But no matter what, this horrible defiant, just absolutely

possessed child behavior continues. Adn we feel like our only option is to go to

the typical medicine. Over 2 years ago they had put her on adderal because she

was jsut running out into the street, and ran into the sides of moving cars

already, has undone her seat belt and opened doors to the car while we are

driving, undressed and thrown her clothes out the windows, Has tried to climb

out on our 2nd story roof from her bedroom window, has pushed chairs down the

steps, as well as all her clothes and many other things. Dumped bottles and

bottles of shampoo, soap, oil, anyt

hign she can get her hands in --to make a skating rink on our carpet---jumped

all over our house furniture and bed in many instances while urinating and

rolling in it, taken her poop out of the toilet and drawn all over our walls

with it--- I think you get the picture. This is her history, but the ugly

defiance is the worse--yes this is all horrible and is a pain and very expensive

to clean up, and it goes away after time, but the mouth and nasty behavior

remains.

Our family is understandably falling apart, I understand this is some behavior

she cannot control, and she is not doing it on purpose, something inside her is

terribly off, we jsut do not know what else to do..

please help.

Jen trovinger

[Guest guest]

, This is one of the best post I have ever seen. My son is very similar,

he too has behavior problems. I have tried everything and now I am going to try

medication. You are so right in everything that you say. Like about the

anticonvulsant and antipsychotic, I know people who have tried every different

mediation with their kids and the only things that work are anticonvulsants.

You are very knowledgeable, thanks for sharing, us parents have to stick

together. My thoughts are with you. Thanks again, Kim

RE: total defiance and big mouth

Oh Jen hon, I am so so sorry you're going through this. I know how truelly

horrible it is because I've been through it...twice. My daughter got almost 100%

better with prosac. Her stability lasted for 8 years until she hit puberty and

we had to add Abilify. My son was and still is a whole other story:) He was not

easy to stabilize at all. I should say that my kids were first diagnosed as

Bipolar, and not diagnosed as autistic until a few years ago. I'm not sure if

they are Bipolar as well as autistic, the symptoms are so very similar. Bipolar

disorder does come comorbid with autism sometimes, so does adhd and a few other

" mental Health issues " . It seems some kids with autism are calm and quiet, some

are holy terrors(mine:) ) and then there are all the ones in between. I often

feel like I am the only one who has an autistic child who is just so volitile,

angry, mean , and out of control. Both of my kids did everything that you are

describing about your kid. My daughter's behaviors were able to get under

control with medication, my son's were able to get better but not gone. I know

medication gets a really bad wrap, but there are safe ways to use them for

people who really need them. The simple fact is some people really do need

them.When behaviors and emotions are controlling everything in your life,

medication is needed. This of course is only my opinion, an experienced opinion

as I'm Bipolar myself and did research for years for my kids when I thought they

were Bipolar, so take it as you will. My son's worst behaviors, like trying to

jump out of a moving car etc were helped tremendously with Risperdal. I would

try aderall or adhd meds as last choice....or try them and if you see an

immediate negative reaction quit the drug. In My experience it only hightens the

emotions and behaviors. The good thing is it is out of the system really

quickly. You want to lean more towards a mood stabilizing medication like an

anticonvulsant, or antipsychotic, or lithium. I'v ealso heard of a lot of

prescribing doctors not practicing testing liver function every 3-6 months. This

is 100% necissary to be sure your child's body is handling the meds ok,a nd that

they are staying in her system at a therapeutic level. So if your Doc doesn't

bring it up, you bring it up to him. My son has tried almost every med there is.

He had a bad liver reaction to one of them.We quickly caught it with a blood

draw, removed the med, and he was back to normal in a week. If they don't test

and it goes on too long, it can become a very severe and permanent issue. I

swwear to you when I read your post it was just like reading my own story. My

kids have done, and my sons till does do a lot of the things that you described.

I know the strain it puts on you and your family. I know the social isolation,

even if you happen to have a few friends who are understanding. Remove the

guilt, it is not your fault and you have not caused this.Neither has your

daughter. Go to therapy if you need to, but any way you can communicate with

your husband. Become a team against the world, not adversaries. You're on the

same side and sometimes you need to speak about it and focus on it to strengthen

the bond and not lose your marriage. Also try to focus on together on the love

you have for your daughter. I know some people will be horrified to hear, that

it can be quite hard to love a child who is going through what our kids go

through. It's not permanent, it's not like you don't love them, but it can be

really hard to feel that love when you are constantly getting negative feedback

and are under attack. I really believe I suffer from PTSD from going through all

this with my kids. Take care of yourself, take care of your marriage. This will

pass, it will get better and you don't need to lose everything in the process.

My husband had to help bring me back and focus on the love that I did have for

my child, even though it was hard to feel at times. Let go of your anger, let go

of your resentment, and let go of your guilt. Those are poisonous and

detremental to what you want to accomplish. There is no blame in this

situation.Not for you, not for your daughter. She is sick, she is not

missbehaving. If you can focus on that ( I have to chant it in my head as a

mantra at times ), it makes it a lot easier to get throug the episodes and

start to conquer this problem. Once you get meds under control, if you go that

route, the ABA will be much more effective. You have to be ready to fight tooth

and nail because our kids make stubborn an art form. They will try to win at all

costs.You'll get it under control only for her to decide to test again. Once she

gets the idea that you are not giving up and not backing down she will start to

behave for you. For now not all the discipline in the world will help...she

can't control herself. If you need any info feel free to e-mail me

[Guest guest]

Aw, you are so sweet:) Thanks We do have to stick together. It is the most

isolating thing in the world to have an out of control child who nobody

understands. They start to not like your kid, they start to not like you. You

get blame from strangers and family memebers. Nobody who hasn't been there could

ever understand. When my kids were doing the jumping out of cars and windows,

and peeing and pooing wherever...I refer to those as the wild animal years.

That's what they were, they were like completely wild animals. The part that

breaks my heart is they don't want to be that way, they feel terrible about it

(even if they don't act like it and even if they say otherwise). They're stuck

doing what they're doing and they desperately want somebody to help control

them.

From: egramaglia@...

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 13:58:50 -0500

Subject: Re: total defiance and big mouth

, This is one of the best post I have ever seen. My son is very similar,

he too has behavior problems. I have tried everything and now I am going to try

medication. You are so right in everything that you say. Like about the

anticonvulsant and antipsychotic, I know people who have tried every different

mediation with their kids and the only things that work are anticonvulsants. You

are very knowledgeable, thanks for sharing, us parents have to stick together.

My thoughts are with you. Thanks again, Kim

RE: total defiance and big mouth

Oh Jen hon, I am so so sorry you're going through this. I know how truelly

horrible it is because I've been through it...twice. My daughter got almost 100%

better with prosac. Her stability lasted for 8 years until she hit puberty and

we had to add Abilify. My son was and still is a whole other story:) He was not

easy to stabilize at all. I should say that my kids were first diagnosed as

Bipolar, and not diagnosed as autistic until a few years ago. I'm not sure if

they are Bipolar as well as autistic, the symptoms are so very similar. Bipolar

disorder does come comorbid with autism sometimes, so does adhd and a few other

" mental Health issues " . It seems some kids with autism are calm and quiet, some

are holy terrors(mine:) ) and then there are all the ones in between. I often

feel like I am the only one who has an autistic child who is just so volitile,

angry, mean , and out of control. Both of my kids did everything that you are

describing about your kid. My daughter's behaviors were able to get under

control with medication, my son's were able to get better but not gone. I know

medication gets a really bad wrap, but there are safe ways to use them for

people who really need them. The simple fact is some people really do need

them.When behaviors and emotions are controlling everything in your life,

medication is needed. This of course is only my opinion, an experienced opinion

as I'm Bipolar myself and did research for years for my kids when I thought they

were Bipolar, so take it as you will. My son's worst behaviors, like trying to

jump out of a moving car etc were helped tremendously with Risperdal. I would

try aderall or adhd meds as last choice....or try them and if you see an

immediate negative reaction quit the drug. In My experience it only hightens the

emotions and behaviors. The good thing is it is out of the system really

quickly. You want to lean more towards a mood stabilizing medication like an

anticonvulsant, or antipsychotic, or lithium. I'v ealso heard of a lot of

prescribing doctors not practicing testing liver function every 3-6 months. This

is 100% necissary to be sure your child's body is handling the meds ok,a nd that

they are staying in her system at a therapeutic level. So if your Doc doesn't

bring it up, you bring it up to him. My son has tried almost every med there is.

He had a bad liver reaction to one of them.We quickly caught it with a blood

draw, removed the med, and he was back to normal in a week. If they don't test

and it goes on too long, it can become a very severe and permanent issue. I

swwear to you when I read your post it was just like reading my own story. My

kids have done, and my sons till does do a lot of the things that you described.

I know the strain it puts on you and your family. I know the social isolation,

even if you happen to have a few friends who are understanding. Remove the

guilt, it is not your fault and you have not caused this.Neither has your

daughter. Go to therapy if you need to, but any way you can communicate with

your husband. Become a team against the world, not adversaries. You're on the

same side and sometimes you need to speak about it and focus on it to strengthen

the bond and not lose your marriage. Also try to focus on together on the love

you have for your daughter. I know some people will be horrified to hear, that

it can be quite hard to love a child who is going through what our kids go

through. It's not permanent, it's not like you don't love them, but it can be

really hard to feel that love when you are constantly getting negative feedback

and are under attack. I really believe I suffer from PTSD from going through all

this with my kids. Take care of yourself, take care of your marriage. This will

pass, it will get better and you don't need to lose everything in the process.

My husband had to help bring me back and focus on the love that I did have for

my child, even though it was hard to feel at times. Let go of your anger, let go

of your resentment, and let go of your guilt. Those are poisonous and

detremental to what you want to accomplish. There is no blame in this

situation.Not for you, not for your daughter. She is sick, she is not

missbehaving. If you can focus on that ( I have to chant it in my head as a

mantra at times ), it makes it a lot easier to get throug the episodes and

start to conquer this problem. Once you get meds under control, if you go that

route, the ABA will be much more effective. You have to be ready to fight tooth

and nail because our kids make stubborn an art form. They will try to win at all

costs.You'll get it under control only for her to decide to test again. Once she

gets the idea that you are not giving up and not backing down she will start to

behave for you. For now not all the discipline in the world will help...she

can't control herself. If you need any info feel free to e-mail me

[Guest guest]

Jen,

Have you done a Hair Elements Tests and/or chelated? See,

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ Also files of

/

Have you tested for PANDAS? Lyme and coinfections? tried anti-virals?

Traditional allergy skin testing[a big panel that covered an adult size back]

coordinated w the IgG panel resulted in the withdrawal of allergens and rotation

diet for other foods. LDN helped w mood[nasty behaviors] as it modulated the

immune system. Elevated CRP levels[25, 30, 32; nl:1-3] told me that inflammation

was a big factor here. Some of the common remedies were horrible behavior

provokers - Sac B, GSE, anything w bitartrate, folinic acid etc. I learned to

rate behavior using the 1-10 pain scale. 8-9 meant/means she is very close to

seizure and looks like what you describe. All these negative responses seemed to

show up in the neurological system - if it had been the respiratory system, we

would have spent our lives in the ER.

It was not until 2001 when my daughter was 16y that we found helpful biomedical

information and like you , I had been looking. What you have written could be

posted for so many of our children. All the charts, time outs, stickers etc will

not help a child in agony - would it for any of us? I am so sorry but your

daughter needs you to keep trying.

>

> Hello Everyone,

>

> I am looking to you all for help. My PDD, ketotic hypoglycemic 7yr old

female who has had many yeast and bacteria issues, and has been on the yeast

protocal for almost 2 years, now has the chicken pox mildly and large lymph

nodes that have erupted all over her body. So I can understand the

heightened horrible behavior. But even without all these extra raised issues,

the one constant remains,----her total defiance and big mouth. throwing stuff at

me, hitting me, total refusal to pick up, put away anything, total

destruction of our home, absolute rude behavior and mean talk, loud talking,

constant interrupting. WE have tried discipline, time-out, spanking, taking

things away, removing actitivies etc. WE 've tried sticker charts, goal

sheets, special events for her to work towards and nothing works... She has

driven a wedge between all of us, my husband just has no time for her anymore,

and my 10 year son Hates her, this behavior just is not getting any better,

with 3 years of help from behavioralist and TSS people that help in home and

community--------and any social event we are avoided like the plague as

families do not want their kids hanging around " that girl " -- and I honestly

don't blame, she is behaving horribly..

>

> Can anyone relate, and what do you do. we have been thru all the food

allergy tests she is GF/CF/ Egg free, Dye free, and yes we know it is full moon

week which also adds to all this. She had all the bacteria and yeast tests

done, and all the nutrient deficiency test done which we have been correcting

for over a year as well.. But no matter what, this horrible defiant, just

absolutely possessed child behavior continues. Adn we feel like our only option

is to go to the typical medicine. Over 2 years ago they had put her on

adderal because she was jsut running out into the street, and ran into the

sides of moving cars already, has undone her seat belt and opened doors to the

car while we are driving, undressed and thrown her clothes out the windows, Has

tried to climb out on our 2nd story roof from her bedroom window, has pushed

chairs down the steps, as well as all her clothes and many other things. Dumped

bottles and bottles of shampoo, soap, oil, anythign she can get her hands in

--to make a skating rink on our carpet---jumped all over our house furniture and

bed in many instances while urinating and rolling in it, taken her poop out of

the toilet and drawn all over our walls with it--- I think you get the picture.

This is her history, but the ugly defiance is the worse--yes this is all

horrible and is a pain and very expensive to clean up, and it goes away after

time, but the mouth and nasty behavior remains.

>

> Our family is understandably falling apart, I understand this is some

behavior she cannot control, and she is not doing it on purpose, something

inside her is terribly off, we jsut do not know what else to do..

> please help.

>

> Jen trovinger

>

>

[Guest guest]

A psychiatrist is best qualified diagnosing and prescribing for behavioral

control.

Tisha Brown

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Re: total defiance and big mouth

so true, my family is tough on me, they think I am not disciplining my son,

that I am too easy. you know the feeling, it all the mom's fault. who do

you use to medicate your kids? a pyschitrist or a neurologist? oh and yes

I too feel like I have PTSD. But the kids is who I feel bad for , because

they do want to do good, and at times they can't, llike you said. Glad

things are better for you. talk to you soon, kim

RE: total defiance and big mouth

>

> Oh Jen hon, I am so so sorry you're going through this. I know how truelly

> horrible it is because I've been through it...twice. My daughter got

> almost 100% better with prosac. Her stability lasted for 8 years until she

> hit puberty and we had to add Abilify. My son was and still is a whole

> other story:) He was not easy to stabilize at all. I should say that my

> kids were first diagnosed as Bipolar, and not diagnosed as autistic until

> a few years ago. I'm not sure if they are Bipolar as well as autistic, the

> symptoms are so very similar. Bipolar disorder does come comorbid with

> autism sometimes, so does adhd and a few other " mental Health issues " . It

> seems some kids with autism are calm and quiet, some are holy

> terrors(mine:) ) and then there are all the ones in between. I often feel

> like I am the only one who has an autistic child who is just so volitile,

> angry, mean , and out of control. Both of my kids did everything that you

> are describing about your kid. My daughter's behaviors were able to get

> under control with medication, my son's were able to get better but not

> gone. I know medication gets a really bad wrap, but there are safe ways to

> use them for people who really need them. The simple fact is some people

> really do need them.When behaviors and emotions are controlling everything

> in your life, medication is needed. This of course is only my opinion, an

> experienced opinion as I'm Bipolar myself and did research for years for

> my kids when I thought they were Bipolar, so take it as you will. My son's

> worst behaviors, like trying to jump out of a moving car etc were helped

> tremendously with Risperdal. I would try aderall or adhd meds as last

> choice....or try them and if you see an immediate negative reaction quit

> the drug. In My experience it only hightens the emotions and behaviors.

> The good thing is it is out of the system really quickly. You want to lean

> more towards a mood stabilizing medication like an anticonvulsant, or

> antipsychotic, or lithium. I'v ealso heard of a lot of prescribing doctors

> not practicing testing liver function every 3-6 months. This is 100%

> necissary to be sure your child's body is handling the meds ok,a nd that

> they are staying in her system at a therapeutic level. So if your Doc

> doesn't bring it up, you bring it up to him. My son has tried almost every

> med there is. He had a bad liver reaction to one of them.We quickly caught

> it with a blood draw, removed the med, and he was back to normal in a

> week. If they don't test and it goes on too long, it can become a very

> severe and permanent issue. I swwear to you when I read your post it was

> just like reading my own story. My kids have done, and my sons till does

> do a lot of the things that you described. I know the strain it puts on

> you and your family. I know the social isolation, even if you happen to

> have a few friends who are understanding. Remove the guilt, it is not your

> fault and you have not caused this.Neither has your daughter. Go to

> therapy if you need to, but any way you can communicate with your husband.

> Become a team against the world, not adversaries. You're on the same side

> and sometimes you need to speak about it and focus on it to strengthen the

> bond and not lose your marriage. Also try to focus on together on the love

> you have for your daughter. I know some people will be horrified to hear,

> that it can be quite hard to love a child who is going through what our

> kids go through. It's not permanent, it's not like you don't love them,

> but it can be really hard to feel that love when you are constantly

> getting negative feedback and are under attack. I really believe I suffer

> from PTSD from going through all this with my kids. Take care of yourself,

> take care of your marriage. This will pass, it will get better and you

> don't need to lose everything in the process. My husband had to help bring

> me back and focus on the love that I did have for my child, even though it

> was hard to feel at times. Let go of your anger, let go of your

> resentment, and let go of your guilt. Those are poisonous and detremental

> to what you want to accomplish. There is no blame in this situation.Not

> for you, not for your daughter. She is sick, she is not missbehaving. If

> you can focus on that ( I have to chant it in my head as a mantra at times

> ), it makes it a lot easier to get throug the episodes and start to

> conquer this problem. Once you get meds under control, if you go that

> route, the ABA will be much more effective. You have to be ready to fight

> tooth and nail because our kids make stubborn an art form. They will try

> to win at all costs.You'll get it under control only for her to decide to

> test again. Once she gets the idea that you are not giving up and not

> backing down she will start to behave for you. For now not all the

> discipline in the world will help...she can't control herself. If you need

> any info feel free to e-mail me

>

>

[Guest guest]

so true, my family is tough on me, they think I am not disciplining my son,

that I am too easy. you know the feeling, it all the mom's fault. who do

you use to medicate your kids? a pyschitrist or a neurologist? oh and yes

I too feel like I have PTSD. But the kids is who I feel bad for , because

they do want to do good, and at times they can't, llike you said. Glad

things are better for you. talk to you soon, kim

RE: total defiance and big mouth

>

> Oh Jen hon, I am so so sorry you're going through this. I know how truelly

> horrible it is because I've been through it...twice. My daughter got

> almost 100% better with prosac. Her stability lasted for 8 years until she

> hit puberty and we had to add Abilify. My son was and still is a whole

> other story:) He was not easy to stabilize at all. I should say that my

> kids were first diagnosed as Bipolar, and not diagnosed as autistic until

> a few years ago. I'm not sure if they are Bipolar as well as autistic, the

> symptoms are so very similar. Bipolar disorder does come comorbid with

> autism sometimes, so does adhd and a few other " mental Health issues " . It

> seems some kids with autism are calm and quiet, some are holy

> terrors(mine:) ) and then there are all the ones in between. I often feel

> like I am the only one who has an autistic child who is just so volitile,

> angry, mean , and out of control. Both of my kids did everything that you

> are describing about your kid. My daughter's behaviors were able to get

> under control with medication, my son's were able to get better but not

> gone. I know medication gets a really bad wrap, but there are safe ways to

> use them for people who really need them. The simple fact is some people

> really do need them.When behaviors and emotions are controlling everything

> in your life, medication is needed. This of course is only my opinion, an

> experienced opinion as I'm Bipolar myself and did research for years for

> my kids when I thought they were Bipolar, so take it as you will. My son's

> worst behaviors, like trying to jump out of a moving car etc were helped

> tremendously with Risperdal. I would try aderall or adhd meds as last

> choice....or try them and if you see an immediate negative reaction quit

> the drug. In My experience it only hightens the emotions and behaviors.

> The good thing is it is out of the system really quickly. You want to lean

> more towards a mood stabilizing medication like an anticonvulsant, or

> antipsychotic, or lithium. I'v ealso heard of a lot of prescribing doctors

> not practicing testing liver function every 3-6 months. This is 100%

> necissary to be sure your child's body is handling the meds ok,a nd that

> they are staying in her system at a therapeutic level. So if your Doc

> doesn't bring it up, you bring it up to him. My son has tried almost every

> med there is. He had a bad liver reaction to one of them.We quickly caught

> it with a blood draw, removed the med, and he was back to normal in a

> week. If they don't test and it goes on too long, it can become a very

> severe and permanent issue. I swwear to you when I read your post it was

> just like reading my own story. My kids have done, and my sons till does

> do a lot of the things that you described. I know the strain it puts on

> you and your family. I know the social isolation, even if you happen to

> have a few friends who are understanding. Remove the guilt, it is not your

> fault and you have not caused this.Neither has your daughter. Go to

> therapy if you need to, but any way you can communicate with your husband.

> Become a team against the world, not adversaries. You're on the same side

> and sometimes you need to speak about it and focus on it to strengthen the

> bond and not lose your marriage. Also try to focus on together on the love

> you have for your daughter. I know some people will be horrified to hear,

> that it can be quite hard to love a child who is going through what our

> kids go through. It's not permanent, it's not like you don't love them,

> but it can be really hard to feel that love when you are constantly

> getting negative feedback and are under attack. I really believe I suffer

> from PTSD from going through all this with my kids. Take care of yourself,

> take care of your marriage. This will pass, it will get better and you

> don't need to lose everything in the process. My husband had to help bring

> me back and focus on the love that I did have for my child, even though it

> was hard to feel at times. Let go of your anger, let go of your

> resentment, and let go of your guilt. Those are poisonous and detremental

> to what you want to accomplish. There is no blame in this situation.Not

> for you, not for your daughter. She is sick, she is not missbehaving. If

> you can focus on that ( I have to chant it in my head as a mantra at times

> ), it makes it a lot easier to get throug the episodes and start to

> conquer this problem. Once you get meds under control, if you go that

> route, the ABA will be much more effective. You have to be ready to fight

> tooth and nail because our kids make stubborn an art form. They will try

> to win at all costs.You'll get it under control only for her to decide to

> test again. Once she gets the idea that you are not giving up and not

> backing down she will start to behave for you. For now not all the

> discipline in the world will help...she can't control herself. If you need

> any info feel free to e-mail me

>

>

[Guest guest]

I feel more comfortable using a psychiatrist for meds because they have more of

an understanding of the medications, and more experience with them. I totally

know what you're talking about with the family's opinions on us being to much of

a pushover for our kids. If I had a dime everytime somebody told me " what that

kid needs is a good spanking " I could affor dmy kids' autism treatments! ha ha

ha. I'm going to start therapy soon to deal with all I went through, and still

go through with the kids. I don't live in a warzone like I used to, but there

are still tough times. I think the most important thing is to communicate with

eachother. Communicate with the child, during a calm moment, that you love them.

That you know they don't want to missbehave, and most importantly that you are

going to help them. Communicate with you partner, and any other children in the

home. Be open and honest and be a team.

From: egramaglia@...

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 17:03:46 -0500

Subject: Re: total defiance and big mouth

so true, my family is tough on me, they think I am not disciplining my son,

that I am too easy. you know the feeling, it all the mom's fault. who do

you use to medicate your kids? a pyschitrist or a neurologist? oh and yes

I too feel like I have PTSD. But the kids is who I feel bad for , because

they do want to do good, and at times they can't, llike you said. Glad

things are better for you. talk to you soon, kim

RE: total defiance and big mouth

>

> Oh Jen hon, I am so so sorry you're going through this. I know how truelly

> horrible it is because I've been through it...twice. My daughter got

> almost 100% better with prosac. Her stability lasted for 8 years until she

> hit puberty and we had to add Abilify. My son was and still is a whole

> other story:) He was not easy to stabilize at all. I should say that my

> kids were first diagnosed as Bipolar, and not diagnosed as autistic until

> a few years ago. I'm not sure if they are Bipolar as well as autistic, the

> symptoms are so very similar. Bipolar disorder does come comorbid with

> autism sometimes, so does adhd and a few other " mental Health issues " . It

> seems some kids with autism are calm and quiet, some are holy

> terrors(mine:) ) and then there are all the ones in between. I often feel

> like I am the only one who has an autistic child who is just so volitile,

> angry, mean , and out of control. Both of my kids did everything that you

> are describing about your kid. My daughter's behaviors were able to get

> under control with medication, my son's were able to get better but not

> gone. I know medication gets a really bad wrap, but there are safe ways to

> use them for people who really need them. The simple fact is some people

> really do need them.When behaviors and emotions are controlling everything

> in your life, medication is needed. This of course is only my opinion, an

> experienced opinion as I'm Bipolar myself and did research for years for

> my kids when I thought they were Bipolar, so take it as you will. My son's

> worst behaviors, like trying to jump out of a moving car etc were helped

> tremendously with Risperdal. I would try aderall or adhd meds as last

> choice....or try them and if you see an immediate negative reaction quit

> the drug. In My experience it only hightens the emotions and behaviors.

> The good thing is it is out of the system really quickly. You want to lean

> more towards a mood stabilizing medication like an anticonvulsant, or

> antipsychotic, or lithium. I'v ealso heard of a lot of prescribing doctors

> not practicing testing liver function every 3-6 months. This is 100%

> necissary to be sure your child's body is handling the meds ok,a nd that

> they are staying in her system at a therapeutic level. So if your Doc

> doesn't bring it up, you bring it up to him. My son has tried almost every

> med there is. He had a bad liver reaction to one of them.We quickly caught

> it with a blood draw, removed the med, and he was back to normal in a

> week. If they don't test and it goes on too long, it can become a very

> severe and permanent issue. I swwear to you when I read your post it was

> just like reading my own story. My kids have done, and my sons till does

> do a lot of the things that you described. I know the strain it puts on

> you and your family. I know the social isolation, even if you happen to

> have a few friends who are understanding. Remove the guilt, it is not your

> fault and you have not caused this.Neither has your daughter. Go to

> therapy if you need to, but any way you can communicate with your husband.

> Become a team against the world, not adversaries. You're on the same side

> and sometimes you need to speak about it and focus on it to strengthen the

> bond and not lose your marriage. Also try to focus on together on the love

> you have for your daughter. I know some people will be horrified to hear,

> that it can be quite hard to love a child who is going through what our

> kids go through. It's not permanent, it's not like you don't love them,

> but it can be really hard to feel that love when you are constantly

> getting negative feedback and are under attack. I really believe I suffer

> from PTSD from going through all this with my kids. Take care of yourself,

> take care of your marriage. This will pass, it will get better and you

> don't need to lose everything in the process. My husband had to help bring

> me back and focus on the love that I did have for my child, even though it

> was hard to feel at times. Let go of your anger, let go of your

> resentment, and let go of your guilt. Those are poisonous and detremental

> to what you want to accomplish. There is no blame in this situation.Not

> for you, not for your daughter. She is sick, she is not missbehaving. If

> you can focus on that ( I have to chant it in my head as a mantra at times

> ), it makes it a lot easier to get throug the episodes and start to

> conquer this problem. Once you get meds under control, if you go that

> route, the ABA will be much more effective. You have to be ready to fight

> tooth and nail because our kids make stubborn an art form. They will try

> to win at all costs.You'll get it under control only for her to decide to

> test again. Once she gets the idea that you are not giving up and not

> backing down she will start to behave for you. For now not all the

> discipline in the world will help...she can't control herself. If you need

> any info feel free to e-mail me

>

>

[Guest guest]

No problem. Good luck.

Tisha

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Re: total defiance and big mouth

HI Tisha,

that is what i thought, thanks, kim

RE: total defiance and big mouth

>

> Oh Jen hon, I am so so sorry you're going through this. I know how truelly

> horrible it is because I've been through it...twice. My daughter got

> almost 100% better with prosac. Her stability lasted for 8 years until she

> hit puberty and we had to add Abilify. My son was and still is a whole

> other story:) He was not easy to stabilize at all. I should say that my

> kids were first diagnosed as Bipolar, and not diagnosed as autistic until

> a few years ago. I'm not sure if they are Bipolar as well as autistic, the

> symptoms are so very similar. Bipolar disorder does come comorbid with

> autism sometimes, so does adhd and a few other " mental Health issues " . It

> seems some kids with autism are calm and quiet, some are holy

> terrors(mine:) ) and then there are all the ones in between. I often feel

> like I am the only one who has an autistic child who is just so volitile,

> angry, mean , and out of control. Both of my kids did everything that you

> are describing about your kid. My daughter's behaviors were able to get

> under control with medication, my son's were able to get better but not

> gone. I know medication gets a really bad wrap, but there are safe ways to

> use them for people who really need them. The simple fact is some people

> really do need them.When behaviors and emotions are controlling everything

> in your life, medication is needed. This of course is only my opinion, an

> experienced opinion as I'm Bipolar myself and did research for years for

> my kids when I thought they were Bipolar, so take it as you will. My son's

> worst behaviors, like trying to jump out of a moving car etc were helped

> tremendously with Risperdal. I would try aderall or adhd meds as last

> choice....or try them and if you see an immediate negative reaction quit

> the drug. In My experience it only hightens the emotions and behaviors.

> The good thing is it is out of the system really quickly. You want to lean

> more towards a mood stabilizing medication like an anticonvulsant, or

> antipsychotic, or lithium. I'v ealso heard of a lot of prescribing doctors

> not practicing testing liver function every 3-6 months. This is 100%

> necissary to be sure your child's body is handling the meds ok,a nd that

> they are staying in her system at a therapeutic level. So if your Doc

> doesn't bring it up, you bring it up to him. My son has tried almost every

> med there is. He had a bad liver reaction to one of them.We quickly caught

> it with a blood draw, removed the med, and he was back to normal in a

> week. If they don't test and it goes on too long, it can become a very

> severe and permanent issue. I swwear to you when I read your post it was

> just like reading my own story. My kids have done, and my sons till does

> do a lot of the things that you described. I know the strain it puts on

> you and your family. I know the social isolation, even if you happen to

> have a few friends who are understanding. Remove the guilt, it is not your

> fault and you have not caused this.Neither has your daughter. Go to

> therapy if you need to, but any way you can communicate with your husband.

> Become a team against the world, not adversaries. You're on the same side

> and sometimes you need to speak about it and focus on it to strengthen the

> bond and not lose your marriage. Also try to focus on together on the love

> you have for your daughter. I know some people will be horrified to hear,

> that it can be quite hard to love a child who is going through what our

> kids go through. It's not permanent, it's not like you don't love them,

> but it can be really hard to feel that love when you are constantly

> getting negative feedback and are under attack. I really believe I suffer

> from PTSD from going through all this with my kids. Take care of yourself,

> take care of your marriage. This will pass, it will get better and you

> don't need to lose everything in the process. My husband had to help bring

> me back and focus on the love that I did have for my child, even though it

> was hard to feel at times. Let go of your anger, let go of your

> resentment, and let go of your guilt. Those are poisonous and detremental

> to what you want to accomplish. There is no blame in this situation.Not

> for you, not for your daughter. She is sick, she is not missbehaving. If

> you can focus on that ( I have to chant it in my head as a mantra at times

> ), it makes it a lot easier to get throug the episodes and start to

> conquer this problem. Once you get meds under control, if you go that

> route, the ABA will be much more effective. You have to be ready to fight

> tooth and nail because our kids make stubborn an art form. They will try

> to win at all costs.You'll get it under control only for her to decide to

> test again. Once she gets the idea that you are not giving up and not

> backing down she will start to behave for you. For now not all the

> discipline in the world will help...she can't control herself. If you need

> any info feel free to e-mail me

>

>

[Guest guest]

HI Tisha,

that is what i thought, thanks, kim

RE: total defiance and big mouth

>

> Oh Jen hon, I am so so sorry you're going through this. I know how truelly

> horrible it is because I've been through it...twice. My daughter got

> almost 100% better with prosac. Her stability lasted for 8 years until she

> hit puberty and we had to add Abilify. My son was and still is a whole

> other story:) He was not easy to stabilize at all. I should say that my

> kids were first diagnosed as Bipolar, and not diagnosed as autistic until

> a few years ago. I'm not sure if they are Bipolar as well as autistic, the

> symptoms are so very similar. Bipolar disorder does come comorbid with

> autism sometimes, so does adhd and a few other " mental Health issues " . It

> seems some kids with autism are calm and quiet, some are holy

> terrors(mine:) ) and then there are all the ones in between. I often feel

> like I am the only one who has an autistic child who is just so volitile,

> angry, mean , and out of control. Both of my kids did everything that you

> are describing about your kid. My daughter's behaviors were able to get

> under control with medication, my son's were able to get better but not

> gone. I know medication gets a really bad wrap, but there are safe ways to

> use them for people who really need them. The simple fact is some people

> really do need them.When behaviors and emotions are controlling everything

> in your life, medication is needed. This of course is only my opinion, an

> experienced opinion as I'm Bipolar myself and did research for years for

> my kids when I thought they were Bipolar, so take it as you will. My son's

> worst behaviors, like trying to jump out of a moving car etc were helped

> tremendously with Risperdal. I would try aderall or adhd meds as last

> choice....or try them and if you see an immediate negative reaction quit

> the drug. In My experience it only hightens the emotions and behaviors.

> The good thing is it is out of the system really quickly. You want to lean

> more towards a mood stabilizing medication like an anticonvulsant, or

> antipsychotic, or lithium. I'v ealso heard of a lot of prescribing doctors

> not practicing testing liver function every 3-6 months. This is 100%

> necissary to be sure your child's body is handling the meds ok,a nd that

> they are staying in her system at a therapeutic level. So if your Doc

> doesn't bring it up, you bring it up to him. My son has tried almost every

> med there is. He had a bad liver reaction to one of them.We quickly caught

> it with a blood draw, removed the med, and he was back to normal in a

> week. If they don't test and it goes on too long, it can become a very

> severe and permanent issue. I swwear to you when I read your post it was

> just like reading my own story. My kids have done, and my sons till does

> do a lot of the things that you described. I know the strain it puts on

> you and your family. I know the social isolation, even if you happen to

> have a few friends who are understanding. Remove the guilt, it is not your

> fault and you have not caused this.Neither has your daughter. Go to

> therapy if you need to, but any way you can communicate with your husband.

> Become a team against the world, not adversaries. You're on the same side

> and sometimes you need to speak about it and focus on it to strengthen the

> bond and not lose your marriage. Also try to focus on together on the love

> you have for your daughter. I know some people will be horrified to hear,

> that it can be quite hard to love a child who is going through what our

> kids go through. It's not permanent, it's not like you don't love them,

> but it can be really hard to feel that love when you are constantly

> getting negative feedback and are under attack. I really believe I suffer

> from PTSD from going through all this with my kids. Take care of yourself,

> take care of your marriage. This will pass, it will get better and you

> don't need to lose everything in the process. My husband had to help bring

> me back and focus on the love that I did have for my child, even though it

> was hard to feel at times. Let go of your anger, let go of your

> resentment, and let go of your guilt. Those are poisonous and detremental

> to what you want to accomplish. There is no blame in this situation.Not

> for you, not for your daughter. She is sick, she is not missbehaving. If

> you can focus on that ( I have to chant it in my head as a mantra at times

> ), it makes it a lot easier to get throug the episodes and start to

> conquer this problem. Once you get meds under control, if you go that

> route, the ABA will be much more effective. You have to be ready to fight

> tooth and nail because our kids make stubborn an art form. They will try

> to win at all costs.You'll get it under control only for her to decide to

> test again. Once she gets the idea that you are not giving up and not

> backing down she will start to behave for you. For now not all the

> discipline in the world will help...she can't control herself. If you need

> any info feel free to e-mail me

>

>

[Guest guest]

I will try a psychiatrist, thanks. Yes the comments are harsh. I have

heard the spanking one too. But you are right, communication is key. I

feel so bad after a " war " with my son, because I say things that I

shouldn't, but I am only human. Therapy is good. You deserve it. And it

helps. I used to go. My son is on a home bound school program, so I have

no time. What do you do about school?

RE: total defiance and big mouth

>>

>> Oh Jen hon, I am so so sorry you're going through this. I know how

>> truelly

>> horrible it is because I've been through it...twice. My daughter got

>> almost 100% better with prosac. Her stability lasted for 8 years until

>> she

>> hit puberty and we had to add Abilify. My son was and still is a whole

>> other story:) He was not easy to stabilize at all. I should say that my

>> kids were first diagnosed as Bipolar, and not diagnosed as autistic until

>> a few years ago. I'm not sure if they are Bipolar as well as autistic,

>> the

>> symptoms are so very similar. Bipolar disorder does come comorbid with

>> autism sometimes, so does adhd and a few other " mental Health issues " . It

>> seems some kids with autism are calm and quiet, some are holy

>> terrors(mine:) ) and then there are all the ones in between. I often feel

>> like I am the only one who has an autistic child who is just so volitile,

>> angry, mean , and out of control. Both of my kids did everything that you

>> are describing about your kid. My daughter's behaviors were able to get

>> under control with medication, my son's were able to get better but not

>> gone. I know medication gets a really bad wrap, but there are safe ways

>> to

>> use them for people who really need them. The simple fact is some people

>> really do need them.When behaviors and emotions are controlling

>> everything

>> in your life, medication is needed. This of course is only my opinion, an

>> experienced opinion as I'm Bipolar myself and did research for years for

>> my kids when I thought they were Bipolar, so take it as you will. My

>> son's

>> worst behaviors, like trying to jump out of a moving car etc were helped

>> tremendously with Risperdal. I would try aderall or adhd meds as last

>> choice....or try them and if you see an immediate negative reaction quit

>> the drug. In My experience it only hightens the emotions and behaviors.

>> The good thing is it is out of the system really quickly. You want to

>> lean

>> more towards a mood stabilizing medication like an anticonvulsant, or

>> antipsychotic, or lithium. I'v ealso heard of a lot of prescribing

>> doctors

>> not practicing testing liver function every 3-6 months. This is 100%

>> necissary to be sure your child's body is handling the meds ok,a nd that

>> they are staying in her system at a therapeutic level. So if your Doc

>> doesn't bring it up, you bring it up to him. My son has tried almost

>> every

>> med there is. He had a bad liver reaction to one of them.We quickly

>> caught

>> it with a blood draw, removed the med, and he was back to normal in a

>> week. If they don't test and it goes on too long, it can become a very

>> severe and permanent issue. I swwear to you when I read your post it was

>> just like reading my own story. My kids have done, and my sons till does

>> do a lot of the things that you described. I know the strain it puts on

>> you and your family. I know the social isolation, even if you happen to

>> have a few friends who are understanding. Remove the guilt, it is not

>> your

>> fault and you have not caused this.Neither has your daughter. Go to

>> therapy if you need to, but any way you can communicate with your

>> husband.

>> Become a team against the world, not adversaries. You're on the same side

>> and sometimes you need to speak about it and focus on it to strengthen

>> the

>> bond and not lose your marriage. Also try to focus on together on the

>> love

>> you have for your daughter. I know some people will be horrified to hear,

>> that it can be quite hard to love a child who is going through what our

>> kids go through. It's not permanent, it's not like you don't love them,

>> but it can be really hard to feel that love when you are constantly

>> getting negative feedback and are under attack. I really believe I suffer

>> from PTSD from going through all this with my kids. Take care of

>> yourself,

>> take care of your marriage. This will pass, it will get better and you

>> don't need to lose everything in the process. My husband had to help

>> bring

>> me back and focus on the love that I did have for my child, even though

>> it

>> was hard to feel at times. Let go of your anger, let go of your

>> resentment, and let go of your guilt. Those are poisonous and detremental

>> to what you want to accomplish. There is no blame in this situation.Not

>> for you, not for your daughter. She is sick, she is not missbehaving. If

>> you can focus on that ( I have to chant it in my head as a mantra at

>> times

>> ), it makes it a lot easier to get throug the episodes and start to

>> conquer this problem. Once you get meds under control, if you go that

>> route, the ABA will be much more effective. You have to be ready to fight

>> tooth and nail because our kids make stubborn an art form. They will try

>> to win at all costs.You'll get it under control only for her to decide to

>> test again. Once she gets the idea that you are not giving up and not

>> backing down she will start to behave for you. For now not all the

>> discipline in the world will help...she can't control herself. If you

>> need

>> any info feel free to e-mail me

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

The confusing thing about my son is he is much better for dad. He acts out way

more with me. And he is getting worse with age. Have you found the same with

your children? thanks, kim

RE: total defiance and big mouth

>>

>> Oh Jen hon, I am so so sorry you're going through this. I know how

>> truelly

>> horrible it is because I've been through it...twice. My daughter got

>> almost 100% better with prosac. Her stability lasted for 8 years until

>> she

>> hit puberty and we had to add Abilify. My son was and still is a whole

>> other story:) He was not easy to stabilize at all. I should say that my

>> kids were first diagnosed as Bipolar, and not diagnosed as autistic until

>> a few years ago. I'm not sure if they are Bipolar as well as autistic,

>> the

>> symptoms are so very similar. Bipolar disorder does come comorbid with

>> autism sometimes, so does adhd and a few other " mental Health issues " . It

>> seems some kids with autism are calm and quiet, some are holy

>> terrors(mine:) ) and then there are all the ones in between. I often feel

>> like I am the only one who has an autistic child who is just so volitile,

>> angry, mean , and out of control. Both of my kids did everything that you

>> are describing about your kid. My daughter's behaviors were able to get

>> under control with medication, my son's were able to get better but not

>> gone. I know medication gets a really bad wrap, but there are safe ways

>> to

>> use them for people who really need them. The simple fact is some people

>> really do need them.When behaviors and emotions are controlling

>> everything

>> in your life, medication is needed. This of course is only my opinion, an

>> experienced opinion as I'm Bipolar myself and did research for years for

>> my kids when I thought they were Bipolar, so take it as you will. My

>> son's

>> worst behaviors, like trying to jump out of a moving car etc were helped

>> tremendously with Risperdal. I would try aderall or adhd meds as last

>> choice....or try them and if you see an immediate negative reaction quit

>> the drug. In My experience it only hightens the emotions and behaviors.

>> The good thing is it is out of the system really quickly. You want to

>> lean

>> more towards a mood stabilizing medication like an anticonvulsant, or

>> antipsychotic, or lithium. I'v ealso heard of a lot of prescribing

>> doctors

>> not practicing testing liver function every 3-6 months. This is 100%

>> necissary to be sure your child's body is handling the meds ok,a nd that

>> they are staying in her system at a therapeutic level. So if your Doc

>> doesn't bring it up, you bring it up to him. My son has tried almost

>> every

>> med there is. He had a bad liver reaction to one of them.We quickly

>> caught

>> it with a blood draw, removed the med, and he was back to normal in a

>> week. If they don't test and it goes on too long, it can become a very

>> severe and permanent issue. I swwear to you when I read your post it was

>> just like reading my own story. My kids have done, and my sons till does

>> do a lot of the things that you described. I know the strain it puts on

>> you and your family. I know the social isolation, even if you happen to

>> have a few friends who are understanding. Remove the guilt, it is not

>> your

>> fault and you have not caused this.Neither has your daughter. Go to

>> therapy if you need to, but any way you can communicate with your

>> husband.

>> Become a team against the world, not adversaries. You're on the same side

>> and sometimes you need to speak about it and focus on it to strengthen

>> the

>> bond and not lose your marriage. Also try to focus on together on the

>> love

>> you have for your daughter. I know some people will be horrified to hear,

>> that it can be quite hard to love a child who is going through what our

>> kids go through. It's not permanent, it's not like you don't love them,

>> but it can be really hard to feel that love when you are constantly

>> getting negative feedback and are under attack. I really believe I suffer

>> from PTSD from going through all this with my kids. Take care of

>> yourself,

>> take care of your marriage. This will pass, it will get better and you

>> don't need to lose everything in the process. My husband had to help

>> bring

>> me back and focus on the love that I did have for my child, even though

>> it

>> was hard to feel at times. Let go of your anger, let go of your

>> resentment, and let go of your guilt. Those are poisonous and detremental

>> to what you want to accomplish. There is no blame in this situation.Not

>> for you, not for your daughter. She is sick, she is not missbehaving. If

>> you can focus on that ( I have to chant it in my head as a mantra at

>> times

>> ), it makes it a lot easier to get throug the episodes and start to

>> conquer this problem. Once you get meds under control, if you go that

>> route, the ABA will be much more effective. You have to be ready to fight

>> tooth and nail because our kids make stubborn an art form. They will try

>> to win at all costs.You'll get it under control only for her to decide to

>> test again. Once she gets the idea that you are not giving up and not

>> backing down she will start to behave for you. For now not all the

>> discipline in the world will help...she can't control herself. If you

>> need

>> any info feel free to e-mail me

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

already using HUMA worm for parasites, and yes we have heard to medicate

while healing. but she is so allergic to dyes and they all seem to have

colored capsules or colored beads. and she breaks out terribly from dyes

total defiance and big mouth

Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 6:58 AM

Hello Everyone,

I am looking to you all for help. My PDD, ketotic hypoglycemic 7yr old

female who has had many yeast and bacteria issues, and has been on the

yeast protocal for almost 2 years, now has the chicken pox mildly and

large lymph nodes that have erupted all over her body. So I can

understand the heightened horrible behavior. But even without all these

extra raised issues, the one constant remains,----her total defiance and

big mouth. throwing stuff at me, hitting me, total refusal to pick up, put

away anything, total destruction of our home, absolute rude behavior and

mean talk, loud talking, constant interrupting. WE have tried

discipline, time-out, spanking, taking things away, removing actitivies

etc. WE 've tried sticker charts, goal sheets, special events for her to

work towards and nothing works... She has driven a wedge between all of us,

my husband just has no time for her anymore, and my 10 year son Hates her,

this

behavior just is not getting any better, with 3 years of help from

behavioralist and TSS people that help in home and community--------and any

social event we are avoided like the plague as families do not want their

kids hanging around " that girl " -- and I honestly don't blame, she is

behaving horribly..

Can anyone relate, and what do you do. we have been thru all the food

allergy tests she is GF/CF/ Egg free, Dye free, and yes we know it is full

moon week which also adds to all this. She had all the bacteria and yeast

tests done, and all the nutrient deficiency test done which we have been

correcting for over a year as well.. But no matter what, this

horrible defiant, just absolutely possessed child behavior continues. Adn

we feel like our only option is to go to the typical medicine. Over 2

years ago they had put her on adderal because she was jsut running out into

the street, and ran into the sides of moving cars already, has undone her

seat belt and opened doors to the car while we are driving, undressed and

thrown her clothes out the windows, Has tried to climb out on our 2nd story

roof from her bedroom window, has pushed chairs down the steps, as well

as all her clothes and many other things. Dumped bottles and bottles of

shampoo, soap, oil, anythign she can get her hands in --to make a skating

rink on our carpet---jumped all over our house furniture and bed in many

instances while urinating and rolling in it, taken her poop out of the

toilet and drawn all over our walls with it--- I think you get the picture.

This is her history, but the ugly defiance is the worse--yes this is all

horrible and is a pain and very expensive to clean up, and it goes away

after time, but the mouth and nasty behavior remains.

Our family is understandably falling apart, I understand this is some

behavior she cannot control, and she is not doing it on purpose, something

inside her is terribly off, we jsut do not know what else to do..

please help.

Jen trovinger

[Guest guest]

Yes- AMEN---she can control it in school, but at home she is a holy terror.

RE: total defiance and big mouth

> >>

> >> Oh Jen hon, I am so so sorry you're going through this. I know how

> >> truelly

> >> horrible it is because I've been through it...twice. My daughter got

> >> almost 100% better with prosac. Her stability lasted for 8 years until

> >> she

> >> hit puberty and we had to add Abilify. My son was and still is a whole

> >> other story:) He was not easy to stabilize at all. I should say that

> my

> >> kids were first diagnosed as Bipolar, and not diagnosed as autistic

> until

> >> a few years ago. I'm not sure if they are Bipolar as well as autistic,

> >> the

> >> symptoms are so very similar. Bipolar disorder does come comorbid with

> >> autism sometimes, so does adhd and a few other " mental Health issues " .

> It

> >> seems some kids with autism are calm and quiet, some are holy

> >> terrors(mine:) ) and then there are all the ones in between. I often

> feel

> >> like I am the only one who has an autistic child who is just so

> volitile,

> >> angry, mean , and out of control. Both of my kids did everything that

> you

> >> are describing about your kid. My daughter's behaviors were able to

> get

> >> under control with medication, my son's were able to get better but

> not

> >> gone. I know medication gets a really bad wrap, but there are safe

> ways

> >> to

> >> use them for people who really need them. The simple fact is some

> people

> >> really do need them.When behaviors and emotions are controlling

> >> everything

> >> in your life, medication is needed. This of course is only my opinion,

> an

> >> experienced opinion as I'm Bipolar myself and did research for years

> for

> >> my kids when I thought they were Bipolar, so take it as you will. My

> >> son's

> >> worst behaviors, like trying to jump out of a moving car etc were

> helped

> >> tremendously with Risperdal. I would try aderall or adhd meds as last

> >> choice....or try them and if you see an immediate negative reaction

> quit

> >> the drug. In My experience it only hightens the emotions and

> behaviors.

> >> The good thing is it is out of the system really quickly. You want to

> >> lean

> >> more towards a mood stabilizing medication like an anticonvulsant, or

> >> antipsychotic, or lithium. I'v ealso heard of a lot of prescribing

> >> doctors

> >> not practicing testing liver function every 3-6 months. This is 100%

> >> necissary to be sure your child's body is handling the meds ok,a nd

> that

> >> they are staying in her system at a therapeutic level. So if your Doc

> >> doesn't bring it up, you bring it up to him. My son has tried almost

> >> every

> >> med there is. He had a bad liver reaction to one of them.We quickly

> >> caught

> >> it with a blood draw, removed the med, and he was back to normal in a

> >> week. If they don't test and it goes on too long, it can become a very

> >> severe and permanent issue. I swwear to you when I read your post it

> was

> >> just like reading my own story. My kids have done, and my sons till

> does

> >> do a lot of the things that you described. I know the strain it puts

> on

> >> you and your family. I know the social isolation, even if you happen

> to

> >> have a few friends who are understanding. Remove the guilt, it is not

> >> your

> >> fault and you have not caused this.Neither has your daughter. Go to

> >> therapy if you need to, but any way you can communicate with your

> >> husband.

> >> Become a team against the world, not adversaries. You're on the same

> side

> >> and sometimes you need to speak about it and focus on it to strengthen

> >> the

> >> bond and not lose your marriage. Also try to focus on together on the

> >> love

> >> you have for your daughter. I know some people will be horrified to

> hear,

> >> that it can be quite hard to love a child who is going through what

> our

> >> kids go through. It's not permanent, it's not like you don't love

> them,

> >> but it can be really hard to feel that love when you are constantly

> >> getting negative feedback and are under attack. I really believe I

> suffer

> >> from PTSD from going through all this with my kids. Take care of

> >> yourself,

> >> take care of your marriage. This will pass, it will get better and you

> >> don't need to lose everything in the process. My husband had to help

> >> bring

> >> me back and focus on the love that I did have for my child, even

> though

> >> it

> >> was hard to feel at times. Let go of your anger, let go of your

> >> resentment, and let go of your guilt. Those are poisonous and

> detremental

> >> to what you want to accomplish. There is no blame in this

> situation.Not

> >> for you, not for your daughter. She is sick, she is not missbehaving.

> If

> >> you can focus on that ( I have to chant it in my head as a mantra at

> >> times

> >> ), it makes it a lot easier to get throug the episodes and start to

> >> conquer this problem. Once you get meds under control, if you go that

> >> route, the ABA will be much more effective. You have to be ready to

> fight

> >> tooth and nail because our kids make stubborn an art form. They will

> try

> >> to win at all costs.You'll get it under control only for her to decide

> to

> >> test again. Once she gets the idea that you are not giving up and not

> >> backing down she will start to behave for you. For now not all the

> >> discipline in the world will help...she can't control herself. If you

> >> need

> >> any info feel free to e-mail me

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

You can always use a compounding pharmacy.  We do cause we want dye free

everything.

nancy j

working towards recovery

searching for a cure

From: thesweetattack <thesweetattack@...>

Subject: total defiance and big mouth

Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 6:58 AM

Hello Everyone,

I am looking to you all for help. My PDD, ketotic hypoglycemic 7yr old

female who has had many yeast and bacteria issues, and has been on the

yeast protocal for almost 2 years, now has the chicken pox mildly and

large lymph nodes that have erupted all over her body. So I can

understand the heightened horrible behavior. But even without all these

extra raised issues, the one constant remains,----her total defiance and

big mouth. throwing stuff at me, hitting me, total refusal to pick up, put

away anything, total destruction of our home, absolute rude behavior and

mean talk, loud talking, constant interrupting. WE have tried

discipline, time-out, spanking, taking things away, removing actitivies

etc. WE 've tried sticker charts, goal sheets, special events for her to

work towards and nothing works... She has driven a wedge between all of us,

my husband just has no time for her anymore, and my 10 year son Hates her,

this

behavior just is not getting any better, with 3 years of help from

behavioralist and TSS people that help in home and community--------and any

social event we are avoided like the plague as families do not want their

kids hanging around " that girl " -- and I honestly don't blame, she is

behaving horribly..

Can anyone relate, and what do you do. we have been thru all the food

allergy tests she is GF/CF/ Egg free, Dye free, and yes we know it is full

moon week which also adds to all this. She had all the bacteria and yeast

tests done, and all the nutrient deficiency test done which we have been

correcting for over a year as well.. But no matter what, this

horrible defiant, just absolutely possessed child behavior continues. Adn

we feel like our only option is to go to the typical medicine. Over 2

years ago they had put her on adderal because she was jsut running out into

the street, and ran into the sides of moving cars already, has undone her

seat belt and opened doors to the car while we are driving, undressed and

thrown her clothes out the windows, Has tried to climb out on our 2nd story

roof from her bedroom window, has pushed chairs down the steps, as well

as all her clothes and many other things. Dumped bottles and bottles of

shampoo, soap, oil, anythign she can get her hands in --to make a skating

rink on our carpet---jumped all over our house furniture and bed in many

instances while urinating and rolling in it, taken her poop out of the

toilet and drawn all over our walls with it--- I think you get the picture.

This is her history, but the ugly defiance is the worse--yes this is all

horrible and is a pain and very expensive to clean up, and it goes away

after time, but the mouth and nasty behavior remains.

Our family is understandably falling apart, I understand this is some

behavior she cannot control, and she is not doing it on purpose, something

inside her is terribly off, we jsut do not know what else to do..

please help.

Jen trovinger

[Guest guest]

Yes that's what we do for my son. We use Lee Silsbee pharmacacy and it helps a

lot and makes a big difference.

Tisha

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

total defiance and big mouth

Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 6:58 AM

Hello Everyone,

I am looking to you all for help. My PDD, ketotic hypoglycemic 7yr old

female who has had many yeast and bacteria issues, and has been on the

yeast protocal for almost 2 years, now has the chicken pox mildly and

large lymph nodes that have erupted all over her body. So I can

understand the heightened horrible behavior. But even without all these

extra raised issues, the one constant remains,----her total defiance and

big mouth. throwing stuff at me, hitting me, total refusal to pick up, put

away anything, total destruction of our home, absolute rude behavior and

mean talk, loud talking, constant interrupting. WE have tried

discipline, time-out, spanking, taking things away, removing actitivies

etc. WE 've tried sticker charts, goal sheets, special events for her to

work towards and nothing works... She has driven a wedge between all of us,

my husband just has no time for her anymore, and my 10 year son Hates her,

this

behavior just is not getting any better, with 3 years of help from

behavioralist and TSS people that help in home and community--------and any

social event we are avoided like the plague as families do not want their

kids hanging around " that girl " -- and I honestly don't blame, she is

behaving horribly..

Can anyone relate, and what do you do. we have been thru all the food

allergy tests she is GF/CF/ Egg free, Dye free, and yes we know it is full

moon week which also adds to all this. She had all the bacteria and yeast

tests done, and all the nutrient deficiency test done which we have been

correcting for over a year as well.. But no matter what, this

horrible defiant, just absolutely possessed child behavior continues. Adn

we feel like our only option is to go to the typical medicine. Over 2

years ago they had put her on adderal because she was jsut running out into

the street, and ran into the sides of moving cars already, has undone her

seat belt and opened doors to the car while we are driving, undressed and

thrown her clothes out the windows, Has tried to climb out on our 2nd story

roof from her bedroom window, has pushed chairs down the steps, as well

as all her clothes and many other things. Dumped bottles and bottles of

shampoo, soap, oil, anythign she can get her hands in --to make a skating

rink on our carpet---jumped all over our house furniture and bed in many

instances while urinating and rolling in it, taken her poop out of the

toilet and drawn all over our walls with it--- I think you get the picture.

This is her history, but the ugly defiance is the worse--yes this is all

horrible and is a pain and very expensive to clean up, and it goes away

after time, but the mouth and nasty behavior remains.

Our family is understandably falling apart, I understand this is some

behavior she cannot control, and she is not doing it on purpose, something

inside her is terribly off, we jsut do not know what else to do..

please help.

Jen trovinger

[Guest guest]

You're exactly right , you're only human. It's something we all do. It's

impossible not to. As long as you're able to talk about it at a calm time and

talk about people saying things they don't mean when they are angry. I've

expalined it to my son by asking him " you've said you hated me when you were

angry. I know you don't hate me and you know you don't hate me.When you're angry

you say mad things. As long as you tell the person how you really feel about

them when you're calm again it's ok " . My kids all go to public school. We lived

in Georgia for almost six years and it was a total nightmare for my son. They

had no idea how to handle him. I could go on for hours about it , but I'll just

say they were very wrong and very incompetant(sp). We moved to Texas this year

and they have been handling him amazingly. They know exactly what to do and they

do it. They don't get angry with, they don't get angry with me. They're awesome,

and its working so far. My daughter thankfully has never missbehaved away from

home. She's completely different than he is. Even during her wild animal days

she wouldn't act out in front of people. So thankfully that wasn't a problem at

school. Her super sweet behavior at school did make it possible for her to fall

between the cracks though. The teachers adored her and so they'd just make

allowances for her. That's been fixed thankfully. It took years of fighting in

Georgia to get her help, and the help was subpar. Here in Texas they're even

going as far as starting to gear her towards what is going to happen after

school. She's only in the 9th grade, but we have a meeting next week with her

team to talk about what she wants to do and what kind of help we will need. They

also send them to classes geared towards what their career interest is so they

can see if they like it. They set them up with supports in the community after

high school to help them achieve what goals they set for themselves. It is

unbelievable! Talking about your experiences and what you've gone through and

are going through can be just as good as therapy. There are also a lot of great

books for parents coping with this difficult lifestyle. You can e-mail me

anytime, I love chatting:)

From: egramaglia@...

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 18:01:09 -0500

Subject: Re: total defiance and big mouth

I will try a psychiatrist, thanks. Yes the comments are harsh. I have

heard the spanking one too. But you are right, communication is key. I

feel so bad after a " war " with my son, because I say things that I

shouldn't, but I am only human. Therapy is good. You deserve it. And it

helps. I used to go. My son is on a home bound school program, so I have

no time. What do you do about school?

RE: total defiance and big mouth

>>

>> Oh Jen hon, I am so so sorry you're going through this. I know how

>> truelly

>> horrible it is because I've been through it...twice. My daughter got

>> almost 100% better with prosac. Her stability lasted for 8 years until

>> she

>> hit puberty and we had to add Abilify. My son was and still is a whole

>> other story:) He was not easy to stabilize at all. I should say that my

>> kids were first diagnosed as Bipolar, and not diagnosed as autistic until

>> a few years ago. I'm not sure if they are Bipolar as well as autistic,

>> the

>> symptoms are so very similar. Bipolar disorder does come comorbid with

>> autism sometimes, so does adhd and a few other " mental Health issues " . It

>> seems some kids with autism are calm and quiet, some are holy

>> terrors(mine:) ) and then there are all the ones in between. I often feel

>> like I am the only one who has an autistic child who is just so volitile,

>> angry, mean , and out of control. Both of my kids did everything that you

>> are describing about your kid. My daughter's behaviors were able to get

>> under control with medication, my son's were able to get better but not

>> gone. I know medication gets a really bad wrap, but there are safe ways

>> to

>> use them for people who really need them. The simple fact is some people

>> really do need them.When behaviors and emotions are controlling

>> everything

>> in your life, medication is needed. This of course is only my opinion, an

>> experienced opinion as I'm Bipolar myself and did research for years for

>> my kids when I thought they were Bipolar, so take it as you will. My

>> son's

>> worst behaviors, like trying to jump out of a moving car etc were helped

>> tremendously with Risperdal. I would try aderall or adhd meds as last

>> choice....or try them and if you see an immediate negative reaction quit

>> the drug. In My experience it only hightens the emotions and behaviors.

>> The good thing is it is out of the system really quickly. You want to

>> lean

>> more towards a mood stabilizing medication like an anticonvulsant, or

>> antipsychotic, or lithium. I'v ealso heard of a lot of prescribing

>> doctors

>> not practicing testing liver function every 3-6 months. This is 100%

>> necissary to be sure your child's body is handling the meds ok,a nd that

>> they are staying in her system at a therapeutic level. So if your Doc

>> doesn't bring it up, you bring it up to him. My son has tried almost

>> every

>> med there is. He had a bad liver reaction to one of them.We quickly

>> caught

>> it with a blood draw, removed the med, and he was back to normal in a

>> week. If they don't test and it goes on too long, it can become a very

>> severe and permanent issue. I swwear to you when I read your post it was

>> just like reading my own story. My kids have done, and my sons till does

>> do a lot of the things that you described. I know the strain it puts on

>> you and your family. I know the social isolation, even if you happen to

>> have a few friends who are understanding. Remove the guilt, it is not

>> your

>> fault and you have not caused this.Neither has your daughter. Go to

>> therapy if you need to, but any way you can communicate with your

>> husband.

>> Become a team against the world, not adversaries. You're on the same side

>> and sometimes you need to speak about it and focus on it to strengthen

>> the

>> bond and not lose your marriage. Also try to focus on together on the

>> love

>> you have for your daughter. I know some people will be horrified to hear,

>> that it can be quite hard to love a child who is going through what our

>> kids go through. It's not permanent, it's not like you don't love them,

>> but it can be really hard to feel that love when you are constantly

>> getting negative feedback and are under attack. I really believe I suffer

>> from PTSD from going through all this with my kids. Take care of

>> yourself,

>> take care of your marriage. This will pass, it will get better and you

>> don't need to lose everything in the process. My husband had to help

>> bring

>> me back and focus on the love that I did have for my child, even though

>> it

>> was hard to feel at times. Let go of your anger, let go of your

>> resentment, and let go of your guilt. Those are poisonous and detremental

>> to what you want to accomplish. There is no blame in this situation.Not

>> for you, not for your daughter. She is sick, she is not missbehaving. If

>> you can focus on that ( I have to chant it in my head as a mantra at

>> times

>> ), it makes it a lot easier to get throug the episodes and start to

>> conquer this problem. Once you get meds under control, if you go that

>> route, the ABA will be much more effective. You have to be ready to fight

>> tooth and nail because our kids make stubborn an art form. They will try

>> to win at all costs.You'll get it under control only for her to decide to

>> test again. Once she gets the idea that you are not giving up and not

>> backing down she will start to behave for you. For now not all the

>> discipline in the world will help...she can't control herself. If you

>> need

>> any info feel free to e-mail me

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

How old is your son? It is totally normal for them to act out more with you than

with Dad, or anyone else. You are the most trusted and beloved so he can trust

you will still love him and be there when he's angry. It also has a small amount

to do with Dad's being more of a disciplinary figure. It doesn't matter if

you're the stricter parent, or even if you do the exact same thing, it's just

biological. Kids on the spectrum tend to go through puberty earlier...I read a

study about it on the ABMD website:) I've also seen it in my house. My daughter

is 14 and my son is 11. My daughter started slightly early and my son started

this year big time...which I've been told is pretty early for a boy. Puberty

makes the behaviors waaaaay worse. It's not all the time, and it seems to even

out more after a year or two. Boy are you lucky you don't have to deal with a

menstrual Aspie teen! ha ha ha Yikes!

From: egramaglia@...

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 18:39:42 -0500

Subject: Re: total defiance and big mouth

The confusing thing about my son is he is much better for dad. He acts out way

more with me. And he is getting worse with age. Have you found the same with

your children? thanks, kim

RE: total defiance and big mouth

>>

>> Oh Jen hon, I am so so sorry you're going through this. I know how

>> truelly

>> horrible it is because I've been through it...twice. My daughter got

>> almost 100% better with prosac. Her stability lasted for 8 years until

>> she

>> hit puberty and we had to add Abilify. My son was and still is a whole

>> other story:) He was not easy to stabilize at all. I should say that my

>> kids were first diagnosed as Bipolar, and not diagnosed as autistic until

>> a few years ago. I'm not sure if they are Bipolar as well as autistic,

>> the

>> symptoms are so very similar. Bipolar disorder does come comorbid with

>> autism sometimes, so does adhd and a few other " mental Health issues " . It

>> seems some kids with autism are calm and quiet, some are holy

>> terrors(mine:) ) and then there are all the ones in between. I often feel

>> like I am the only one who has an autistic child who is just so volitile,

>> angry, mean , and out of control. Both of my kids did everything that you

>> are describing about your kid. My daughter's behaviors were able to get

>> under control with medication, my son's were able to get better but not

>> gone. I know medication gets a really bad wrap, but there are safe ways

>> to

>> use them for people who really need them. The simple fact is some people

>> really do need them.When behaviors and emotions are controlling

>> everything

>> in your life, medication is needed. This of course is only my opinion, an

>> experienced opinion as I'm Bipolar myself and did research for years for

>> my kids when I thought they were Bipolar, so take it as you will. My

>> son's

>> worst behaviors, like trying to jump out of a moving car etc were helped

>> tremendously with Risperdal. I would try aderall or adhd meds as last

>> choice....or try them and if you see an immediate negative reaction quit

>> the drug. In My experience it only hightens the emotions and behaviors.

>> The good thing is it is out of the system really quickly. You want to

>> lean

>> more towards a mood stabilizing medication like an anticonvulsant, or

>> antipsychotic, or lithium. I'v ealso heard of a lot of prescribing

>> doctors

>> not practicing testing liver function every 3-6 months. This is 100%

>> necissary to be sure your child's body is handling the meds ok,a nd that

>> they are staying in her system at a therapeutic level. So if your Doc

>> doesn't bring it up, you bring it up to him. My son has tried almost

>> every

>> med there is. He had a bad liver reaction to one of them.We quickly

>> caught

>> it with a blood draw, removed the med, and he was back to normal in a

>> week. If they don't test and it goes on too long, it can become a very

>> severe and permanent issue. I swwear to you when I read your post it was

>> just like reading my own story. My kids have done, and my sons till does

>> do a lot of the things that you described. I know the strain it puts on

>> you and your family. I know the social isolation, even if you happen to

>> have a few friends who are understanding. Remove the guilt, it is not

>> your

>> fault and you have not caused this.Neither has your daughter. Go to

>> therapy if you need to, but any way you can communicate with your

>> husband.

>> Become a team against the world, not adversaries. You're on the same side

>> and sometimes you need to speak about it and focus on it to strengthen

>> the

>> bond and not lose your marriage. Also try to focus on together on the

>> love

>> you have for your daughter. I know some people will be horrified to hear,

>> that it can be quite hard to love a child who is going through what our

>> kids go through. It's not permanent, it's not like you don't love them,

>> but it can be really hard to feel that love when you are constantly

>> getting negative feedback and are under attack. I really believe I suffer

>> from PTSD from going through all this with my kids. Take care of

>> yourself,

>> take care of your marriage. This will pass, it will get better and you

>> don't need to lose everything in the process. My husband had to help

>> bring

>> me back and focus on the love that I did have for my child, even though

>> it

>> was hard to feel at times. Let go of your anger, let go of your

>> resentment, and let go of your guilt. Those are poisonous and detremental

>> to what you want to accomplish. There is no blame in this situation.Not

>> for you, not for your daughter. She is sick, she is not missbehaving. If

>> you can focus on that ( I have to chant it in my head as a mantra at

>> times

>> ), it makes it a lot easier to get throug the episodes and start to

>> conquer this problem. Once you get meds under control, if you go that

>> route, the ABA will be much more effective. You have to be ready to fight

>> tooth and nail because our kids make stubborn an art form. They will try

>> to win at all costs.You'll get it under control only for her to decide to

>> test again. Once she gets the idea that you are not giving up and not

>> backing down she will start to behave for you. For now not all the

>> discipline in the world will help...she can't control herself. If you

>> need

>> any info feel free to e-mail me

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

You can have her medications compounded without the dies and additives. Lee

Silsby is an online compounding pharmacy, and sometimes your local pharmacy may

be able to do it for you. Most health insurances cover the cost as well

From: thesweetattack@...

Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 20:21:53 -0400

Subject: Re: total defiance and big mouth

already using HUMA worm for parasites, and yes we have heard to medicate

while healing. but she is so allergic to dyes and they all seem to have

colored capsules or colored beads. and she breaks out terribly from dyes

total defiance and big mouth

Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 6:58 AM

Hello Everyone,

I am looking to you all for help. My PDD, ketotic hypoglycemic 7yr old

female who has had many yeast and bacteria issues, and has been on the

yeast protocal for almost 2 years, now has the chicken pox mildly and

large lymph nodes that have erupted all over her body. So I can

understand the heightened horrible behavior. But even without all these

extra raised issues, the one constant remains,----her total defiance and

big mouth. throwing stuff at me, hitting me, total refusal to pick up, put

away anything, total destruction of our home, absolute rude behavior and

mean talk, loud talking, constant interrupting. WE have tried

discipline, time-out, spanking, taking things away, removing actitivies

etc. WE 've tried sticker charts, goal sheets, special events for her to

work towards and nothing works... She has driven a wedge between all of us,

my husband just has no time for her anymore, and my 10 year son Hates her,

this

behavior just is not getting any better, with 3 years of help from

behavioralist and TSS people that help in home and community--------and any

social event we are avoided like the plague as families do not want their

kids hanging around " that girl " -- and I honestly don't blame, she is

behaving horribly..

Can anyone relate, and what do you do. we have been thru all the food

allergy tests she is GF/CF/ Egg free, Dye free, and yes we know it is full

moon week which also adds to all this. She had all the bacteria and yeast

tests done, and all the nutrient deficiency test done which we have been

correcting for over a year as well.. But no matter what, this

horrible defiant, just absolutely possessed child behavior continues. Adn

we feel like our only option is to go to the typical medicine. Over 2

years ago they had put her on adderal because she was jsut running out into

the street, and ran into the sides of moving cars already, has undone her

seat belt and opened doors to the car while we are driving, undressed and

thrown her clothes out the windows, Has tried to climb out on our 2nd story

roof from her bedroom window, has pushed chairs down the steps, as well

as all her clothes and many other things. Dumped bottles and bottles of

shampoo, soap, oil, anythign she can get her hands in --to make a skating

rink on our carpet---jumped all over our house furniture and bed in many

instances while urinating and rolling in it, taken her poop out of the

toilet and drawn all over our walls with it--- I think you get the picture.

This is her history, but the ugly defiance is the worse--yes this is all

horrible and is a pain and very expensive to clean up, and it goes away

after time, but the mouth and nasty behavior remains.

Our family is understandably falling apart, I understand this is some

behavior she cannot control, and she is not doing it on purpose, something

inside her is terribly off, we jsut do not know what else to do..

please help.

Jen trovinger

[Guest guest]

Well, we will be talking with her DAN doc this week, has many

medical problems, on top of her behavior issues, last week she got a mild

form of chicken pox, which for us is a blessing, as the last 5 months

during full moon, she got large lymph nodes popping out all over her body,

and her blood sugar has been bottoming out at a moment's notice, so for her

body to be able to push some of the pox out of her skin is a blessing. She

will be home from school all week, so we will be driving each other crazy

this week. But as for medication, I don't even know where to

tart --like stated before, she was on adderal for over 8 months, and in

only lasted for about 2 hours, but that was before started all the yeast

protocal, ----I just hate the thought of putting this little 7 year old

body on medication, since she is able to control it at school and the

teachers have trouble believing there are problems outside of school. She

is well advanced academically, and is the only 1st grader in the 2nd grade

enrichment classes---So all they see is this well rounded, advanced child.

And I think It has to do with the constant structure. But at home it is a

different story.

I ahve seen some posts on here for risperdal, what is that over adderal or

something else? I appreciate your thoughts so much...

Jen

total defiance and big mouth

>

> Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 6:58 AM

>

> Hello Everyone,

>

> I am looking to you all for help. My PDD, ketotic hypoglycemic 7yr old

> female who has had many yeast and bacteria issues, and has been on the

> yeast protocal for almost 2 years, now has the chicken pox mildly and

> large lymph nodes that have erupted all over her body. So I can

> understand the heightened horrible behavior. But even without all these

> extra raised issues, the one constant remains,----her total defiance and

> big mouth. throwing stuff at me, hitting me, total refusal to pick up, put

> away anything, total destruction of our home, absolute rude behavior and

> mean talk, loud talking, constant interrupting. WE have tried

> discipline, time-out, spanking, taking things away, removing actitivies

> etc. WE 've tried sticker charts, goal sheets, special events for her to

> work towards and nothing works... She has driven a wedge between all of

> us,

> my husband just has no time for her anymore, and my 10 year son Hates her,

> this

> behavior just is not getting any better, with 3 years of help from

> behavioralist and TSS people that help in home and community--------and

> any

> social event we are avoided like the plague as families do not want their

> kids hanging around " that girl " -- and I honestly don't blame, she is

> behaving horribly..

>

> Can anyone relate, and what do you do. we have been thru all the food

> allergy tests she is GF/CF/ Egg free, Dye free, and yes we know it is full

> moon week which also adds to all this. She had all the bacteria and yeast

> tests done, and all the nutrient deficiency test done which we have been

> correcting for over a year as well.. But no matter what, this

> horrible defiant, just absolutely possessed child behavior continues. Adn

> we feel like our only option is to go to the typical medicine. Over 2

> years ago they had put her on adderal because she was jsut running out

> into

> the street, and ran into the sides of moving cars already, has undone her

> seat belt and opened doors to the car while we are driving, undressed and

> thrown her clothes out the windows, Has tried to climb out on our 2nd

> story

> roof from her bedroom window, has pushed chairs down the steps, as well

> as all her clothes and many other things. Dumped bottles and bottles of

> shampoo, soap, oil, anythign she can get her hands in --to make a skating

> rink on our carpet---jumped all over our house furniture and bed in many

> instances while urinating and rolling in it, taken her poop out of the

> toilet and drawn all over our walls with it--- I think you get the

> picture.

> This is her history, but the ugly defiance is the worse--yes this is all

> horrible and is a pain and very expensive to clean up, and it goes away

> after time, but the mouth and nasty behavior remains.

>

> Our family is understandably falling apart, I understand this is some

> behavior she cannot control, and she is not doing it on purpose, something

> inside her is terribly off, we jsut do not know what else to do..

>

> please help.

>

> Jen trovinger

>

>

[Guest guest]

In Bipolar Disorder, and I'm not saying that's what she has at all, but with

Bipolar Disorder it's part of the " M.O " for them to behave out of the home and

not at home. I know I was definately that way. My daughter is that way. It was

one of the first clues that the BP diagnosis wasn't quite right for my son when

he was acting out just as bad at school as at home. It has nothing to do with

behavior or being able to control it. The reason for people with BP to only act

out in private is they feel the need to present a " normal face " to the world.

Only the people close to them get to see them at their worst....unless they are

in serious mental breakdown mode, which is rare for most BP's. So that's what I

know from my standpoint and from reading and talking to others with Bipolar

kids. Like I said, I'm not saying it's bipolar, this is just how behaviors being

different at home than at school have been explained to me. I can immagine it

being the same for autism. My daughter is terrified of seeming weird or odd in

front of her peers. So I think that fear overrides her other issues when she's

at school. I can't stress enough that it doesn't mean she can control it, and

it's not bad behavior. It's symptoms of an illness, whether it's autism or BP.

Nobody ever believed me when I'd explain my daughter's behavior. She'd act like

a completely different child at the Doctors and they'd be looking at me like I

was the one who was crazy:) The aderall only working for two hours for your

daughter is a good indicator that it's not right for her. Aderall is basically

speed. So initially you get a high end feel euphoric, so that might be why it

seemed to be working for her. I remember reading something in Dr.Bock's book

about why some people thought their kid had ADHD when Aderall worked...I'll see

if I can find it. I can't post t until later today b/c I'm off to run some

errands. A good place to learn about psych meds is a website called CABF.org .

It's the childhood and adolescant bbipolar foundation. Your child doesn't have

to be bipolar for you to join, in fact a lot of parents with autistic children

are on their. It's a lot like this site because you can post and talk to other

parents and experts about it. It also has a lot of resource pages. A really

great book that describes the meds and what they do is called " New Hope For

Children and Adolescants with Bipolar Disorder " ...again I'm not saying your

child has BP, even though it's been like every other wor din this post:) ha ha

ha That's just where my info comes from. I'll see if I can find that info from

Dr.Bock's book and post it later today...oh, what I did just see when I glanced

talked about kids having low iron and borderline anemia (one of the signs is the

bottoming out of her blood sugar) He said the aderall could mask the symptoms so

it would seem like it was helping the child

From: thesweetattack@...

Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 09:41:59 -0400

Subject: Re: total defiance and big mouth

Well, we will be talking with her DAN doc this week, has many

medical problems, on top of her behavior issues, last week she got a mild

form of chicken pox, which for us is a blessing, as the last 5 months

during full moon, she got large lymph nodes popping out all over her body,

and her blood sugar has been bottoming out at a moment's notice, so for her

body to be able to push some of the pox out of her skin is a blessing. She

will be home from school all week, so we will be driving each other crazy

this week. But as for medication, I don't even know where to

tart --like stated before, she was on adderal for over 8 months, and in

only lasted for about 2 hours, but that was before started all the yeast

protocal, ----I just hate the thought of putting this little 7 year old

body on medication, since she is able to control it at school and the

teachers have trouble believing there are problems outside of school. She

is well advanced academically, and is the only 1st grader in the 2nd grade

enrichment classes---So all they see is this well rounded, advanced child.

And I think It has to do with the constant structure. But at home it is a

different story.

I ahve seen some posts on here for risperdal, what is that over adderal or

something else? I appreciate your thoughts so much...

Jen

total defiance and big mouth

>

> Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 6:58 AM

>

> Hello Everyone,

>

> I am looking to you all for help. My PDD, ketotic hypoglycemic 7yr old

> female who has had many yeast and bacteria issues, and has been on the

> yeast protocal for almost 2 years, now has the chicken pox mildly and

> large lymph nodes that have erupted all over her body. So I can

> understand the heightened horrible behavior. But even without all these

> extra raised issues, the one constant remains,----her total defiance and

> big mouth. throwing stuff at me, hitting me, total refusal to pick up, put

> away anything, total destruction of our home, absolute rude behavior and

> mean talk, loud talking, constant interrupting. WE have tried

> discipline, time-out, spanking, taking things away, removing actitivies

> etc. WE 've tried sticker charts, goal sheets, special events for her to

> work towards and nothing works... She has driven a wedge between all of

> us,

> my husband just has no time for her anymore, and my 10 year son Hates her,

> this

> behavior just is not getting any better, with 3 years of help from

> behavioralist and TSS people that help in home and community--------and

> any

> social event we are avoided like the plague as families do not want their

> kids hanging around " that girl " -- and I honestly don't blame, she is

> behaving horribly..

>

> Can anyone relate, and what do you do. we have been thru all the food

> allergy tests she is GF/CF/ Egg free, Dye free, and yes we know it is full

> moon week which also adds to all this. She had all the bacteria and yeast

> tests done, and all the nutrient deficiency test done which we have been

> correcting for over a year as well.. But no matter what, this

> horrible defiant, just absolutely possessed child behavior continues. Adn

> we feel like our only option is to go to the typical medicine. Over 2

> years ago they had put her on adderal because she was jsut running out

> into

> the street, and ran into the sides of moving cars already, has undone her

> seat belt and opened doors to the car while we are driving, undressed and

> thrown her clothes out the windows, Has tried to climb out on our 2nd

> story

> roof from her bedroom window, has pushed chairs down the steps, as well

> as all her clothes and many other things. Dumped bottles and bottles of

> shampoo, soap, oil, anythign she can get her hands in --to make a skating

> rink on our carpet---jumped all over our house furniture and bed in many

> instances while urinating and rolling in it, taken her poop out of the

> toilet and drawn all over our walls with it--- I think you get the

> picture.

> This is her history, but the ugly defiance is the worse--yes this is all

> horrible and is a pain and very expensive to clean up, and it goes away

> after time, but the mouth and nasty behavior remains.

>

> Our family is understandably falling apart, I understand this is some

> behavior she cannot control, and she is not doing it on purpose, something

> inside her is terribly off, we jsut do not know what else to do..

>

> please help.

>

> Jen trovinger

>

>

[Guest guest]

She has not been on adderall for over 1 year, since it did not work, we

stopped it. And her actions are at home behavior, and in public with us,

but when she is with others or at school--no problems..

Re: total defiance and big mouth

Well, we will be talking with her DAN doc this week, has many

medical problems, on top of her behavior issues, last week she got a mild

form of chicken pox, which for us is a blessing, as the last 5 months

during full moon, she got large lymph nodes popping out all over her body,

and her blood sugar has been bottoming out at a moment's notice, so for her

body to be able to push some of the pox out of her skin is a blessing. She

will be home from school all week, so we will be driving each other crazy

this week. But as for medication, I don't even know where to

tart --like stated before, she was on adderal for over 8 months, and in

only lasted for about 2 hours, but that was before started all the yeast

protocal, ----I just hate the thought of putting this little 7 year old

body on medication, since she is able to control it at school and the

teachers have trouble believing there are problems outside of school. She

is well advanced academically, and is the only 1st grader in the 2nd grade

enrichment classes---So all they see is this well rounded, advanced child.

And I think It has to do with the constant structure. But at home it is a

different story.

I ahve seen some posts on here for risperdal, what is that over adderal or

something else? I appreciate your thoughts so much...

Jen

total defiance and big mouth

>

> Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 6:58 AM

>

> Hello Everyone,

>

> I am looking to you all for help. My PDD, ketotic hypoglycemic 7yr old

> female who has had many yeast and bacteria issues, and has been on the

> yeast protocal for almost 2 years, now has the chicken pox mildly and

> large lymph nodes that have erupted all over her body. So I can

> understand the heightened horrible behavior. But even without all these

> extra raised issues, the one constant remains,----her total defiance and

> big mouth. throwing stuff at me, hitting me, total refusal to pick up, put

> away anything, total destruction of our home, absolute rude behavior and

> mean talk, loud talking, constant interrupting. WE have tried

> discipline, time-out, spanking, taking things away, removing actitivies

> etc. WE 've tried sticker charts, goal sheets, special events for her to

> work towards and nothing works... She has driven a wedge between all of

> us,

> my husband just has no time for her anymore, and my 10 year son Hates her,

> this

> behavior just is not getting any better, with 3 years of help from

> behavioralist and TSS people that help in home and community--------and

> any

> social event we are avoided like the plague as families do not want their

> kids hanging around " that girl " -- and I honestly don't blame, she is

> behaving horribly..

>

> Can anyone relate, and what do you do. we have been thru all the food

> allergy tests she is GF/CF/ Egg free, Dye free, and yes we know it is full

> moon week which also adds to all this. She had all the bacteria and yeast

> tests done, and all the nutrient deficiency test done which we have been

> correcting for over a year as well.. But no matter what, this

> horrible defiant, just absolutely possessed child behavior continues. Adn

> we feel like our only option is to go to the typical medicine. Over 2

> years ago they had put her on adderal because she was jsut running out

> into

> the street, and ran into the sides of moving cars already, has undone her

> seat belt and opened doors to the car while we are driving, undressed and

> thrown her clothes out the windows, Has tried to climb out on our 2nd

> story

> roof from her bedroom window, has pushed chairs down the steps, as well

> as all her clothes and many other things. Dumped bottles and bottles of

> shampoo, soap, oil, anythign she can get her hands in --to make a skating

> rink on our carpet---jumped all over our house furniture and bed in many

> instances while urinating and rolling in it, taken her poop out of the

> toilet and drawn all over our walls with it--- I think you get the

> picture.

> This is her history, but the ugly defiance is the worse--yes this is all

> horrible and is a pain and very expensive to clean up, and it goes away

> after time, but the mouth and nasty behavior remains.

>

> Our family is understandably falling apart, I understand this is some

> behavior she cannot control, and she is not doing it on purpose, something

> inside her is terribly off, we jsut do not know what else to do..

>

> please help.

>

> Jen trovinger

>

>