Re: GFCF vs Enzymes

[Guest guest]

You are right, and I think enzymes is a much better way of eliminating

the problem without having to put the kids on a diet that will affect

the rest of their lives.

I have read yesterday a very long article about this (if I remember

where I found it I'll put the link here... with all the things I read

these days it's hard to keep track of where I found it or how I got

there), and also I am reading the book " Enzymes - Go with your gut " ,

by De Felice which basically says the same thing about enzymes.

I borrowed the book from TACA library.

>

>

> Hi everyone

> This question is for all those moms who are using enzymes.As far as

i know enzymes only act on substrate(right?) Means if there is gluten

or casein in the food enzymes will break down them and prevent them to

get converted into opioids(caseomorphine or gluteinomorphin) e.g Alpha

peptizyde.Does it mean the enzymes will not be effective if person is

on GFCFSF diet(as there will not be gluten or casein to be acted by

enzymes)? Or in other words if you want to use enzymes there is no

need of being on GFCF diet? Is it so? I am confused.Can anyone please

clear my confusion?

> parul

>

>

>

> Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to

http://messenger./invite/

>

>

[Guest guest]

> This question is for all those moms who are using enzymes.As far as

i know enzymes only act on substrate(right?) Means if there is gluten

or casein in the food enzymes will break down them and prevent them to

get converted into opioids(caseomorphine or gluteinomorphin) e.g Alpha

peptizyde.Does it mean the enzymes will not be effective if person is

on GFCFSF diet(as there will not be gluten or casein to be acted by

enzymes)? Or in other words if you want to use enzymes there is no

need of being on GFCF diet?

Depends on the child. My son tolerated no foods, so he needed enzymes

just to be able to eat. Not just gluten/casein, but all foods.

When I added back wheat with enzymes, he improved.

Milk required enzymes and mito cocktail. So enzymes are not always

sufficient to address all foods.

You can be gfcf and still benefit from enzymes, either because of

cross contamination and infraction issues, other foods not tolerated,

or for other reasons.

Dana

[Guest guest]

So this is confusing to me (After reading the book too). So children

can do better off the diet w/enzymes vs. on diet w/enzymes?

>

> Depends on the child. My son tolerated no foods, so he needed enzymes

> just to be able to eat. Not just gluten/casein, but all foods.

>

> When I added back wheat with enzymes, he improved.

>

> Milk required enzymes and mito cocktail. So enzymes are not always

> sufficient to address all foods.

>

> You can be gfcf and still benefit from enzymes, either because of

> cross contamination and infraction issues, other foods not tolerated,

> or for other reasons.

>

> Dana

>

[Guest guest]

Can someone please tell me what book you are referring too?  I think I may need

to read this book.

 

Thank you.

- On Sat, 11/22/08, Kelli <Kelliston@...> wrote:

From: Kelli <Kelliston@...>

Subject: Re: GFCF vs Enzymes

Date: Saturday, November 22, 2008, 12:18 PM

So this is confusing to me (After reading the book too). So children

can do better off the diet w/enzymes vs. on diet w/enzymes?

>

> Depends on the child. My son tolerated no foods, so he needed enzymes

> just to be able to eat. Not just gluten/casein, but all foods.

>

> When I added back wheat with enzymes, he improved.

>

> Milk required enzymes and mito cocktail. So enzymes are not always

> sufficient to address all foods.

>

> You can be gfcf and still benefit from enzymes, either because of

> cross contamination and infraction issues, other foods not tolerated,

> or for other reasons.

>

> Dana

>

[Guest guest]

>

> So this is confusing to me (After reading the book too). So children

> can do better off the diet w/enzymes vs. on diet w/enzymes?

Depends on the child. My son was noticeably better when I gave him

wheat with HNI enzymes, but for milk he needed mito cocktail.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Depends on the child. My son was noticeably better when I gave him

wheat with HNI enzymes, but for milk he needed mito cocktail.

Dana, are you saying that DS was better when he ATE wheat w/ enzymes vs. NOT

eating wheat w/ enzymes? we are working on the yeast right now and have been

Gfcf for 4 (almost 5) years... i have noticed when I start introducing wheat

over the years I see loads of improvements immediately (speech and language

which is actually good anyway)- but then over the next couple of months his

stimming and behaviors get worse so we went back to gf. Because the enzymes

were always constipating we were never fully able to get on the HNI enzymes.

Dr. Houston did say they are constipating..or CAN be.. and they were in my sons

case. We are tackling yeast right now but eventually i want to 'try' wheat and

the HNI wheat enzymes...

[Guest guest]

can anyone explain why this might happen?Kelli

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me

@...: danasview@...: Fri, 28 Nov

2008 15:38:11 +0000Subject: Re: GFCF vs Enzymes

>> So

this is confusing to me (After reading the book too). So children > can do

better off the diet w/enzymes vs. on diet w/enzymes?Depends on the child. My son

was noticeably better when I gave himwheat with HNI enzymes, but for milk he

needed mito cocktail.Dana

[Guest guest]

What book are you all referring to? I'd love to know because I started giving my

daughter gluten with enzymes (a few times) and I thought she was doing better? 

I thought I was crazy!  I'd love to see it written somewhere.

 

PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME THE NAME OF THE BOOK........

From: Kelli ston <Kelliston@...>

Subject: RE: Re: GFCF vs Enzymes

Date: Friday, November 28, 2008, 12:52 PM

can anyone explain why this might happen?Kelli

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOODJoin me

From: danasview (DOT) comDate: Fri, 28

Nov 2008 15:38:11 +0000Subject: Re: GFCF vs Enzymes

>>

So this is confusing to me (After reading the book too). So children > can do

better off the diet w/enzymes vs. on diet w/enzymes?Depends on the child. My son

was noticeably better when I gave himwheat with HNI enzymes, but for milk he

needed mito cocktail.Dana

[Guest guest]

> Dana, are you saying that DS was better when he ATE wheat w/ enzymes

vs. NOT eating wheat w/ enzymes?

Yes. I removed rice and corn, and gave him wheat with HNI enzymes, and

he was much better.

>>we are working on the yeast right now and have been Gfcf for 4

(almost 5) years... i have noticed when I start introducing wheat

over the years I see loads of improvements immediately (speech and

language which is actually good anyway)- but then over the next couple

of months his stimming and behaviors get worse so we went back to gf.

Because the enzymes were always constipating we were never fully able

to get on the HNI enzymes. Dr. Houston did say they are

constipating..or CAN be.. and they were in my sons case. We are

tackling yeast right now but eventually i want to 'try' wheat and the

HNI wheat enzymes...

At my house, constipation was resolved with magnesium and yeast

control. Vitamin C can also work to resolve constipation. More ideas

here

http://www.danasview.net/constip.htm

Dana

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry to jump in and I don't have much helpful info to

contribute, but this topic interests me b/c we've been using enzymes

for a few years w/o the diet and my son's been making slow steady

improvement ~ but we also do lots of other therapies

(speech/OT/social skills). Recently we removed Casein first and then

Gluten for our son. He's been GFCF for 3 weeks and his behaviors

have been worse or the same as before removing these things. We are

continuing with the enzymes (trienza/no-phenol) thru out. I realize

it takes awhile with the gluten, but I keep hearing/reading how the

fogs been lifted for kids after taking the dairy out/how much better

they sleep and it just is not happening for my kid. I guess I'm

somewhat discouraged.

Donna

> > Dana, are you saying that DS was better when he ATE wheat w/

enzymes

> vs. NOT eating wheat w/ enzymes?

>

>

> Yes. I removed rice and corn, and gave him wheat with HNI enzymes,

and

> he was much better.

>

>

> >>we are working on the yeast right now and have been Gfcf for 4

> (almost 5) years... i have noticed when I start introducing wheat

> over the years I see loads of improvements immediately (speech and

> language which is actually good anyway)- but then over the next

couple

> of months his stimming and behaviors get worse so we went back to

gf.

> Because the enzymes were always constipating we were never fully

able

> to get on the HNI enzymes. Dr. Houston did say they are

> constipating..or CAN be.. and they were in my sons case. We are

> tackling yeast right now but eventually i want to 'try' wheat and

the

> HNI wheat enzymes...

>

>

> At my house, constipation was resolved with magnesium and yeast

> control. Vitamin C can also work to resolve constipation. More

ideas

> here

>

> http://www.danasview.net/constip.htm

>

> Dana

>

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

My experience with the diet is mixed. I had good results within a few months

with my 3 year old but not with my 2 year old. I stuck with it for 9 months with

the little one and 1.5yrs. with the 3 year old and kept hoping for change but

didn't get any. I'm also talking strict GF/CF no play dough, no stickers nothing

ever and my 3 year olds language didn't improve the way others had so in Aug.(

with the guidance of Dr. Bock) I changed the diet. My 3 year old is now GF/CF/PF

(or low phenol)/YF (yeast free and low sugar only from a few fruits here and

there [no table sugar]). My 2 year old is now SCD (specific carb. diet), PF (or

low phenol) and CF. I've seen more results in them in a couple month with these

diets than all the time before. I think diets work for everyone on the spectrum

but some children require much more than just GF/CF. All the diets are hard at

first but once you get the ball rolling it gets so much easier. My advice would

be to do it and do it properly with no cheating cause that way the body has a

chance to heal. There is a great book called We band of Mothers about the SCD

(written by a Mom and Dr.) and a cookbook called Cooking to heal Little Tummies

that have been life savers to me. It has way to cook the foods so that the

little guys eat it.

Hang in there, Casandra

@...: nmsabel@...: Sat, 29 Nov 2008

16:14:43 +0000Subject: Re: GFCF vs Enzymes

I'm sorry to jump in and I don't have much helpful info to contribute, but this

topic interests me b/c we've been using enzymes for a few years w/o the diet and

my son's been making slow steady improvement ~ but we also do lots of other

therapies (speech/OT/social skills). Recently we removed Casein first and then

Gluten for our son. He's been GFCF for 3 weeks and his behaviors have been worse

or the same as before removing these things. We are continuing with the enzymes

(trienza/no-phenol) thru out. I realize it takes awhile with the gluten, but I

keep hearing/reading how the fogs been lifted for kids after taking the dairy

out/how much better they sleep and it just is not happening for my kid. I guess

I'm somewhat discouraged.Donna > > Dana, are you saying that DS was better when

he ATE wheat w/ enzymes> vs. NOT eating wheat w/ enzymes?> > > Yes. I removed

rice and corn, and gave him wheat with HNI enzymes, and> he was much better.> >

> >>we are working on the yeast right now and have been Gfcf for 4> (almost 5)

years... i have noticed when I start introducing wheat> over the years I see

loads of improvements immediately (speech and> language which is actually good

anyway)- but then over the next couple> of months his stimming and behaviors get

worse so we went back to gf.> Because the enzymes were always constipating we

were never fully able> to get on the HNI enzymes. Dr. Houston did say they are>

constipating..or CAN be.. and they were in my sons case. We are> tackling yeast

right now but eventually i want to 'try' wheat and the> HNI wheat enzymes...> >

> At my house, constipation was resolved with magnesium and yeast> control.

Vitamin C can also work to resolve constipation. More ideas> here> >

http://www.danasview.net/constip.htm> > Dana>

[Guest guest]

That book is great!

From: casandra oldham <cmfitness@...>

Subject: RE: Re: GFCF vs Enzymes

Date: Saturday, November 29, 2008, 10:11 AM

Hi there,

My experience with the diet is mixed. I had good results within a few months

with my 3 year old but not with my 2 year old. I stuck with it for 9 months with

the little one and 1.5yrs. with the 3 year old and kept hoping for change but

didn't get any. I'm also talking strict GF/CF no play dough, no stickers nothing

ever and my 3 year olds language didn't improve the way others had so in Aug.(

with the guidance of Dr. Bock) I changed the diet. My 3 year old is now GF/CF/PF

(or low phenol)/YF (yeast free and low sugar only from a few fruits here and

there [no table sugar]). My 2 year old is now SCD (specific carb. diet), PF (or

low phenol) and CF. I've seen more results in them in a couple month with these

diets than all the time before. I think diets work for everyone on the spectrum

but some children require much more than just GF/CF. All the diets are hard at

first but once you get the ball rolling it gets so much easier. My advice would

be to do it and

do it properly with no cheating cause that way the body has a chance to heal.

There is a great book called We band of Mothers about the SCD (written by a Mom

and Dr.) and a cookbook called Cooking to heal Little Tummies that have been

life savers to me. It has way to cook the foods so that the little guys eat it.

Hang in there, Casandra

From: nmsabelaim (DOT) comDate: Sat, 29 Nov

2008 16:14:43 +0000Subject: Re: GFCF vs Enzymes

I'm sorry to jump in and I don't have much helpful info to contribute, but this

topic interests me b/c we've been using enzymes for a few years w/o the diet and

my son's been making slow steady improvement ~ but we also do lots of other

therapies (speech/OT/social skills). Recently we removed Casein first and then

Gluten for our son. He's been GFCF for 3 weeks and his behaviors have been worse

or the same as before removing these things. We are continuing with the enzymes

(trienza/no- phenol) thru out. I realize it takes awhile with the gluten, but I

keep hearing/reading how the fogs been lifted for kids after taking the dairy

out/how much better they sleep and it just is not happening for my kid. I guess

I'm somewhat discouraged. Donna > > Dana, are you saying that DS was better

when he ATE wheat w/

enzymes> vs. NOT eating wheat w/ enzymes?> > > Yes. I removed rice and corn,

and gave him wheat with HNI enzymes, and> he was much better.> > > >>we are

working on the yeast right now and have been Gfcf for 4> (almost 5) years... i

have noticed when I start introducing wheat> over the years I see loads of

improvements immediately (speech and> language which is actually good anyway)-

but then over the next couple> of months his stimming and behaviors get worse so

we went back to gf.> Because the enzymes were always constipating we were never

fully able> to get on the HNI enzymes. Dr. Houston did say they are>

constipating. .or CAN be.. and they were in my sons case. We are> tackling yeast

right now but eventually i want to 'try' wheat and the> HNI wheat enzymes...> >

> At my house, constipation was resolved with magnesium and yeast> control.

Vitamin C can also work to resolve constipation. More ideas> here> >

http://www.danasvie w.net/constip. htm> >

Dana>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Cassandra. I think you are probably right, that my son

needs to have some other adjustments to his diet. He super craves

ketchup, so I'm sure there's something going on w/ phenols. He's

always been a non-traditional responder to things. I appreciate you

sharing your experience. Where can I find those 2 books you

mentioned?

Donna

>

>

> Hi there,

>

> My experience with the diet is mixed. I had good results within a

few months with my 3 year old but not with my 2 year old. I stuck

with it for 9 months with the little one and 1.5yrs. with the 3 year

old and kept hoping for change but didn't get any. I'm also talking

strict GF/CF no play dough, no stickers nothing ever and my 3 year

olds language didn't improve the way others had so in Aug.( with the

guidance of Dr. Bock) I changed the diet. My 3 year old is now

GF/CF/PF (or low phenol)/YF (yeast free and low sugar only from a few

fruits here and there [no table sugar]). My 2 year old is now SCD

(specific carb. diet), PF (or low phenol) and CF. I've seen more

results in them in a couple month with these diets than all the time

before. I think diets work for everyone on the spectrum but some

children require much more than just GF/CF. All the diets are hard at

first but once you get the ball rolling it gets so much easier. My

advice would be to do it and do it properly with no cheating cause

that way the body has a chance to heal. There is a great book called

We band of Mothers about the SCD (written by a Mom and Dr.) and a

cookbook called Cooking to heal Little Tummies that have been life

savers to me. It has way to cook the foods so that the little guys

eat it.

>

> Hang in there, Casandra

>

>

>

> @...: nmsabel@...: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:14:43

+0000Subject: Re: GFCF vs Enzymes

>

>

>

> I'm sorry to jump in and I don't have much helpful info to

contribute, but this topic interests me b/c we've been using enzymes

for a few years w/o the diet and my son's been making slow steady

improvement ~ but we also do lots of other therapies

(speech/OT/social skills). Recently we removed Casein first and then

Gluten for our son. He's been GFCF for 3 weeks and his behaviors have

been worse or the same as before removing these things. We are

continuing with the enzymes (trienza/no-phenol) thru out. I realize

it takes awhile with the gluten, but I keep hearing/reading how the

fogs been lifted for kids after taking the dairy out/how much better

they sleep and it just is not happening for my kid. I guess I'm

somewhat discouraged.Donna --- In

[Guest guest]

>>Recently we removed Casein first and then

> Gluten for our son. He's been GFCF for 3 weeks and his behaviors

> have been worse or the same as before removing these things.

There is a typical 3 week adjustment period. If this is continuing

tho, consider other things. For example, I had to remove rice and

corn, even with enzymes. So if you are now giving him a lot of rice

or corn, you may need to remove those. Or if he is eating a lot of

another food, like the ketchup example. Or if you give a lot of juice

instead of milk.

And some kids just do better on a regular diet with enzymes, and do

not do as well with gfcf.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Yes, have upped the rice and the ketchup has been the biggest

increase. I think he's using it also to cover up the taste

differences (he's 9) ~ but also he's always craved ketchup more. I'm

getting the biggest resistance/complaints from backing down on the

ketchup out of all the foods we've removed. We've been good about

limiting or not giving juice. He does get the unsweetened Almond

Milk.

I so appreciate the input and helping with a game plan. I just wish

the process was a little easier as far as figuring out what works!

The feedback makes figuring it out so much better! Thanks.

Donna

> >>Recently we removed Casein first and then

> > Gluten for our son. He's been GFCF for 3 weeks and his behaviors

> > have been worse or the same as before removing these things.

>

>

> There is a typical 3 week adjustment period. If this is continuing

> tho, consider other things. For example, I had to remove rice and

> corn, even with enzymes. So if you are now giving him a lot of rice

> or corn, you may need to remove those. Or if he is eating a lot of

> another food, like the ketchup example. Or if you give a lot of

juice

> instead of milk.

>

> And some kids just do better on a regular diet with enzymes, and do

> not do as well with gfcf.

>

> Dana

>

[Guest guest]

my son needs no-fenol enzyme to tolerate ketchup. Also, what brand are you

using? Heinz organic and Annie's are not made with HF Corn Syrup. Corn syrup

(eventually all corn) caused problems for my son.

> From: sabels_4 <nmsabel@...>

> Subject: Re: GFCF vs Enzymes

>

> Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 7:51 AM

> Yes, have upped the rice and the ketchup has been the

> biggest

> increase. I think he's using it also to cover up the

> taste

> differences (he's 9) ~ but also he's always craved

> ketchup more. I'm

> getting the biggest resistance/complaints from backing down

> on the

> ketchup out of all the foods we've removed. We've

> been good about

> limiting or not giving juice. He does get the unsweetened

> Almond

> Milk.

>

> I so appreciate the input and helping with a game plan. I

> just wish

> the process was a little easier as far as figuring out what

> works!

> The feedback makes figuring it out so much better! Thanks.

> Donna

>

>

> > >>Recently we removed Casein first and then

> > > Gluten for our son. He's been GFCF for 3

> weeks and his behaviors

> > > have been worse or the same as before removing

> these things.

> >

> >

> > There is a typical 3 week adjustment period. If this

> is continuing

> > tho, consider other things. For example, I had to

> remove rice and

> > corn, even with enzymes. So if you are now giving him

> a lot of rice

> > or corn, you may need to remove those. Or if he is

> eating a lot of

> > another food, like the ketchup example. Or if you

> give a lot of

> juice

> > instead of milk.

> >

> > And some kids just do better on a regular diet with

> enzymes, and do

> > not do as well with gfcf.

> >

> > Dana

> >

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

This past week I added in a no-fenol to the 2 trienza we have been

giving with meals. I also switched over to the organic ketchup after

reading what you said about the HF corn syrup. Right now, we're

going trying to seriously cut back on the ketchup consumption. I

hope that these two things will help. If not, we will look at

removing corn and the rice. Fun. Fun.

Donna

> > > >>Recently we removed Casein first and then

> > > > Gluten for our son. He's been GFCF for 3

> > weeks and his behaviors

> > > > have been worse or the same as before removing

> > these things.

> > >

> > >

> > > There is a typical 3 week adjustment period. If this

> > is continuing

> > > tho, consider other things. For example, I had to

> > remove rice and

> > > corn, even with enzymes. So if you are now giving him

> > a lot of rice

> > > or corn, you may need to remove those. Or if he is

> > eating a lot of

> > > another food, like the ketchup example. Or if you

> > give a lot of

> > juice

> > > instead of milk.

> > >

> > > And some kids just do better on a regular diet with

> > enzymes, and do

> > > not do as well with gfcf.

> > >

> > > Dana

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

do you do epsom salt baths? they help my son " detox " out phenols.

> From: sabels_4 <nmsabel@...>

> Subject: Re: GFCF vs Enzymes

>

> Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 4:20 PM

> This past week I added in a no-fenol to the 2 trienza we

> have been

> giving with meals. I also switched over to the organic

> ketchup after

> reading what you said about the HF corn syrup. Right now,

> we're

> going trying to seriously cut back on the ketchup

> consumption. I

> hope that these two things will help. If not, we will look

> at

> removing corn and the rice. Fun. Fun.

> Donna

>

>

> > > > >>Recently we removed Casein first and

> then

> > > > > Gluten for our son. He's been GFCF

> for 3

> > > weeks and his behaviors

> > > > > have been worse or the same as before

> removing

> > > these things.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > There is a typical 3 week adjustment period.

> If this

> > > is continuing

> > > > tho, consider other things. For example, I

> had to

> > > remove rice and

> > > > corn, even with enzymes. So if you are now

> giving him

> > > a lot of rice

> > > > or corn, you may need to remove those. Or

> if he is

> > > eating a lot of

> > > > another food, like the ketchup example. Or

> if you

> > > give a lot of

> > > juice

> > > > instead of milk.

> > > >

> > > > And some kids just do better on a regular

> diet with

> > > enzymes, and do

> > > > not do as well with gfcf.

> > > >

> > > > Dana

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >