Nutrition

[Guest guest]

Leona,

That sounds YUMMY! I'm going to try it this weekend. Thanks for sharing.

LJ

Leona wrote:

> From: nebaz@... (Leona )

>

> Since we are on the subject of yogurt I thought would share a shake

> recipe I have enjoyed that I got from a BlueCross BlueShield flyer.

> Banana Strawberry Shake

> 2 ripe bananas, peeled

> 2 cups nonfat, plain yogurt

> 1 cup frozen strawberries

> Place peeled bananas in a plastic bag. Freeze until firm.

> Break bananas into quarters. Place bananas, strawberries and yogurt in

> bender and blend until smooth. Pour into glasses and serve.

> Yield: Serves 2. Approximate nutritonal value per serving:

> calories-260;fat-1 g; cholesterol-5 mg; sodium-175 mg.

> Not to mention the calcium and protien of the yogurt. Some brands

> contain live and

> active bacterial cultures.

> It is pretty yummy.

>

> Leona AIH

>

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Leona,

My husband and I have started making " smoothies " with fruit, fat free milk

and soft tofu, with a pinch of vanilla and sugar. They are excellent and it

is a great way to integrate tofu (soybean protein) into you diet.

Roxanne

[Guest guest]

Hi Roxanne,

I make them with honey, I'm going to try the vanilla -

great idea.

Barbara Ann

--- CREE8V1@... wrote:

> From: CREE8V1@...

>

> Leona,

>

> My husband and I have started making " smoothies "

> with fruit, fat free milk

> and soft tofu, with a pinch of vanilla and sugar.

> They are excellent and it

> is a great way to integrate tofu (soybean protein)

> into you diet.

>

> Roxanne

[Guest guest]

That is one reason why I am here, it just stands to reason that if your liver

filters, then the food we eat would have some kind of effect on it. So I vote

for nutrition, I have seen books that advertise themselves as help for hepetitas

thru nutrition, so others must feel the same way.

Also on the calcium. I just started taking 1500 calcium with vitamin d.

However

the Dr. says it does no good at this point. When they see that my bones need

help they will give me stuff that is very strong and very expensive to help it,

that is exactly what he said. Anyone know anything about this? Lynn in Wa AIH

Ceallachqn@... wrote:

> From: Ceallachqn@...

>

> Hi to all,

> I don't know how many in this group research diet and nutrition in relation

> to liver disease and autoimmune illness. I have had AIH since 1985, along

> with lupus, low thyroid, and most recently, celiac disease.

>

> I noted very early in my disease process the difference I felt with different

> kinds of foods and supplements. Unfortunately, I did not know I had celiac

> then(basically a grain intolerance which causes an immune response). If I

> had, I am convinced my health would be better now.

>

> I want to share some books i have used to help myself. I am firmly convinced

> that what I have done through diet and supplements has positively impacted my

> liver disease. I use Adelle ' book Let's Get Well. Another one is

> Nutrition Almanac published by Nutrition Search, Inc. Earl Mindell's books,

> Herb Bible and Vitamin Bible. And one more is by Balch, M.D. -

> Prescription for Nutritional Healing.

>

> I am also just now getting into another author, Rosemary Fisher. She is an

> interesting woman who managed to add 5% to her bone density after age 70

> without the use of estrogen therapy or other medication. She did it through

> diet. I have a pretty severe case of osteoporosis and have got to add bone

> mass. I don't seem to be absorbing...but aside from that , I think it would

> help those of us who already have problems, to find ways to improve our

> health that do not involve more medication.

>

> The reason I posted this is because no one is talking about diet much. Hope

> i haven't ruffled feathers here, it is just an observation.

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Lynn,

Your doctor's views on the need for calcium are different from any I've

heard, but each doctor seems to have his or her own opinions.

I was first told by a nutritionist and eventually by every doctor I've seen

(and this is also according to everything I've read) that supplemental

calcium is imperative for people who are taking long-term Prednisone,

meaning for more than 30 days.

1200 mgs. seems to be the minimum required, though some people in this

group are taking 1500 mgs. daily. Vitamin D is also necessary, plus as

much calcium as possible in your diet. All of this may not be enough to

compensate for the bone density loss caused by Prednisone.

Osteoporosis is supposedly irreversible but they can slow or stop the

process. What you don't want to happen is to develop osteoporosis then

expect to fix it, because it isn't going to get fixed.

I was told in 1980 or so that as long as I continued to take hormones, I

would never develop osteoporosis. I'd been taking birth control pills for

years, so when the first signs of menopause appeared (at about age 39) I

was given a different type of hormone combination. In 1996 I had a

hysterectomy and then I was given a hormone patch. The main reason for the

hormones were to prevent osteoporosis. Unfortunately, not everyone can

take them and some doctors apparently are concerned that hormones can cause

liver damage. My own Hepatologists don't agree, but why take chances?

Regardless, hormones are considered the No. 1 source of osteoporosis

prevention. Calcium and vitamin D can minimize bone density loss. If you

are taking Prednisone and NOT taking hormones or calcium or vitamin D, it

would seem that you are at increased risk for osteoporosis.

Your doctor is probably talking about Fosomax, when he tells you that there

is an expensive drug you can take if you begin showing bone density loss.

It can be a difficult drug to deal with and has potential harmful side

effects. For example, you have to be up and around when you take it and

remain either standing, sitting upright or walking for 30 minutes after you

take it, and my doctor says it should be taken with two full glasses of

water. Otherwise it can cause serious ulcers. Why go through all that if

you can just go to the drugstore and buy some calcium and vitamin D and

possibly prevent bone density loss from starting? At worst, it will slow

the process down.

Sorry to get so detailed about this, but it worries me that your doctor

isn't more concerned about the permanent damage that could be happening to

you from bone density loss.

Take care,

Geri

[Guest guest]

Hi Geri,

Something else to consider on your note it the fact that not everyone is a

candidate for hormone therapy. Nor is everyone going to be able to take

Fosamax. I am only 34 and am still nursing a baby. No hormone therapy for

me. I tried the Fosamax and it made me sick as a dog. With the calcium it

is also important to be getting magnesium. This is usually overlooked by

physicians. Additionally, it is not impossible to reverse osteoporosis.

True, if you are taking prednisone all the time, as I am, it may not be

possible. But, many people have been able to increase their bone density by

changing their eating habits. I am counting on being one who can increase

bone density through diet. My body doesn't do too well with meds.

[Guest guest]

,

A few people in this group have been told by their doctors that hormones

might have actually caused their liver disease. My doctors haven't had

that theory but that doesn't make them right (or wrong). I always knew I

was high risk for osteoporosis because my grandmother had it. Also, most

of the women in my family have had problems like degenerative arthritis.

The gynecologist who first told me about the link between menopause and

osteoporosis was one of the doctors who was involved in studies that

revealed that link. He was adamant that it was imperative that I take

hormones for the rest of my life. He believed that the risks were so far

outweighed by the benefits, it wasn't worth considering. After that, I was

told the same thing by a doctor at Stanford Medical Center and again by a

top gynecologist in Switzerland. In fact, no doctor has ever warned me

away from them, but instead more or less insisted that I should take them.

But, that's me and everyone's medical history has to be considered separately.

My bone density loss in the past year was considerable, considering that

I've taken hormones for many years and have been taking 1200 mgs. of

calcium daily for about a year. Since I absolutely must continue to take

Prednisone, something has to be done to try to prevent much further bone

density loss. Osteoporosis has already been diagnosed, but it's early.

What good will it do to save my liver if I'm so crippled I can't walk for

fear my bones will shatter? That's how it was for my grandmother.

I don't know yet whether I'll be able to tolerate Fosamax. Usually I'm not

terribly drug sensative, so I hope I don't have negative reactions. I'm

considerably older than you are and I can understand your concerns. What

are the sources for Magnesium? It's not mentioned in the Fosamax

literature, but it makes sense. I'm taking so many vitamins now I feel

like a walking pharmacy. Before 1998, I'd never taken a vitamin in my

life, even through all of my pregnancies. Many years ago a close family

friend who was a doctor told me that vitamins are additives and are not

necessary for people who have a normal, healthy diet. Thus, it wasn't

until I had AIH that I ever considered them. Our children were all normal

weight and healthy, despite my evil habit of smoking and lack of vitamin

supplements, but that was back in the days when no one knew better. I've

even managed to go through most of my life with only rare colds and flu and

no major illnesses until AIH. I give credit to good genes, not to anything

I've done to make it that way.

I understand that Fosamax can restore some bone density but nothing is

going to reverse osteoporosis to the state the body was in before it began.

Bone density restoration is the exception, not the rule, or so I've heard.

They learn more every day about these things, so maybe my information is

now outdated. I certainly hope so! However, I did see an osteoporosis

specialist a few months ago and she told me that it is still considered

irreversible for the most part. She also told me that Prednisone could and

probably would overcome the benefits of hormones and extra calcium and

vitamin D, but the damage would probably be less because of them.

I haven't taken many medications in my lifetime. Hormones have been about

the sum and total until AIH. The few times I've taken antibiotics, they've

been very quickly effective. When I was working my doctors used to try to

get me to take anti-depressants because they were worried I was going to

stress myself into some serious state, but I'd usually abandon them after a

couple of weeks.

In the long run, it looks to me like each of us has a different set of

problems and the rule for all of us is that there are no rules! What works

for me may not work for someone else. Or, may not even be necessary for

someone else. I do know that if I were your age, I'd probably be much more

careful about the meds I take and the way I listen to my doctors.

Take care,

Geri

[Guest guest]

Hi Geri,

I agree that everyone is different. We all have to find what works best for

us. Vitamins are a funny thing. It is true that a normal healthy person

probably does not need supplementation. However, anyone with chronic illness

does need supplementation. Doctors don't seem to recognize this, or the fact

that some people don't fall within the norm and just plain need more

nutrients.

On your osteoporosis, I too have family history and some other things that

have come into play. I am getting a triple whammy on my bones unfortunately.

for you though, you have things you could change that would help your bones.

Those cokes you drink contain phosphoric acid. Those pretty much negate any

calcium you are taking, let alone the prednisone. Smoking also destroys

calcium and other vitamins. You really need supplementation. Anyway, I

don't want to offend anybody here. I just get really concerned about the

importance of nutritiion.

[Guest guest]

Yes, that is a good starting point for me. Adelle , didn't she write other

books earlier on? I think I have two given to me by my sister-in-law, I just

can't find them now. She gave them to me at first because she was concerned

about me taking prednisone the first time many years ago, and the side effects.

I remember at the time they were very informative. So I will go look for the

other at the book store. Thanks for the help. I have soo many things doing

right now, I would really like something to get me started right off, but will

research if I can't find one like that. I have been on a diet for 10 days now

and am doing well with it, however, I don't really know how healthy it is or

safe

for my liver. I think with my diabetes, that I will go with that type of diet,

take out all my allergies and add what I need for my liver and see if that

works. If anyone has a better idea, I would be very interested in it. Thanks,

Lynn

Ceallachqn@... wrote:

> From: Ceallachqn@...

>

> Hi Lynn,

> To tell you the truth, I just dig and dig for information. It took me years,

> literally, to get a good basic understanding of what was going on with me and

> my food. I find my information by reading....and I read everything. Some of

> it is junk. You can't believe everything you read. I read various

> magazines, some of them are free. Example's of those magazines are Saturday

> Evening Post - they have good nutrition and health articles, I also read

> Let's Live. My grounding book is the Adelle book I mentioned - Let's

> Get Well. Have you ever undertaken a course of study? Well, it is much the

> same. At the beginning it all seems very confusing, but after awhile things

> begin to click and you start connecting information together. If you want to

> dive into this stuff go for it. Start with Adelle ' book. You don't

> have to read everything....start with what really applies to you - perhaps

> the liver section and osteoporosis. But, you can certainly start making

> changes in your diet now. Get rid of the things you don't need. A pleasant

> side effect of my getting rid of sugar was a lessening of joint pain. To

> this day, if I sit down and eat too much sugar, and for me, that would be

> more than say, a couple of cookies, I can plan on having joint pain about 6-8

> hours later. I am to the point now, where joint pain is a thing of the

> past. I occasionally have some pain in my fingers, but that is it.

>

> Do you have a health food store near you? Just go in and look around.

> Usually at the door they have free information. This is stuff you have to

> read with a fine tooth comb. However, you can find tons of info in these

> little magazines. One of them is called Delicious! It has recipes and

> health info. Well, I am making another long note here. I hope I answered

> with what you were looking for.

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

, you are not offending me, keep it up, do you want to be my resident

nutritionist? Lynn

Ceallachqn@... wrote:

> From: Ceallachqn@...

>

> Hi Geri,

> I agree that everyone is different. We all have to find what works best for

> us. Vitamins are a funny thing. It is true that a normal healthy person

> probably does not need supplementation. However, anyone with chronic illness

> does need supplementation. Doctors don't seem to recognize this, or the fact

> that some people don't fall within the norm and just plain need more

> nutrients.

>

> On your osteoporosis, I too have family history and some other things that

> have come into play. I am getting a triple whammy on my bones unfortunately.

> for you though, you have things you could change that would help your bones.

> Those cokes you drink contain phosphoric acid. Those pretty much negate any

> calcium you are taking, let alone the prednisone. Smoking also destroys

> calcium and other vitamins. You really need supplementation. Anyway, I

> don't want to offend anybody here. I just get really concerned about the

> importance of nutritiion.

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Lynn,

Do I understand correctly that like me you have liver disease and diabetes?

Very difficult to know what to eat and what not to eat.

J

>From: Lynn <CEN32195@...>

>Reply- onelist

> onelist

>Subject: Re: [ ]nutrition

>Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:56:57 -0700

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>From: Lynn <CEN32195@...>

>

>Yes, that is a good starting point for me. Adelle , didn't she write

>other

>books earlier on? I think I have two given to me by my sister-in-law, I

>just

>can't find them now. She gave them to me at first because she was

>concerned

>about me taking prednisone the first time many years ago, and the side

>effects.

>I remember at the time they were very informative. So I will go look for

>the

>other at the book store. Thanks for the help. I have soo many things

>doing

>right now, I would really like something to get me started right off, but

>will

>research if I can't find one like that. I have been on a diet for 10 days

>now

>and am doing well with it, however, I don't really know how healthy it is

>or safe

>for my liver. I think with my diabetes, that I will go with that type of

>diet,

>take out all my allergies and add what I need for my liver and see if that

>works. If anyone has a better idea, I would be very interested in it.

>Thanks,

>Lynn

>

>Ceallachqn@... wrote:

>

> > From: Ceallachqn@...

> >

> > Hi Lynn,

> > To tell you the truth, I just dig and dig for information. It took me

>years,

> > literally, to get a good basic understanding of what was going on with

>me and

> > my food. I find my information by reading....and I read everything.

>Some of

> > it is junk. You can't believe everything you read. I read various

> > magazines, some of them are free. Example's of those magazines are

>Saturday

> > Evening Post - they have good nutrition and health articles, I also read

> > Let's Live. My grounding book is the Adelle book I mentioned -

>Let's

> > Get Well. Have you ever undertaken a course of study? Well, it is much

>the

> > same. At the beginning it all seems very confusing, but after awhile

>things

> > begin to click and you start connecting information together. If you

>want to

> > dive into this stuff go for it. Start with Adelle ' book. You

>don't

> > have to read everything....start with what really applies to you -

>perhaps

> > the liver section and osteoporosis. But, you can certainly start making

> > changes in your diet now. Get rid of the things you don't need. A

>pleasant

> > side effect of my getting rid of sugar was a lessening of joint pain.

>To

> > this day, if I sit down and eat too much sugar, and for me, that would

>be

> > more than say, a couple of cookies, I can plan on having joint pain

>about 6-8

> > hours later. I am to the point now, where joint pain is a thing of the

> > past. I occasionally have some pain in my fingers, but that is it.

> >

> > Do you have a health food store near you? Just go in and look around.

> > Usually at the door they have free information. This is stuff you have

>to

> > read with a fine tooth comb. However, you can find tons of info in

>these

> > little magazines. One of them is called Delicious! It has recipes and

> > health info. Well, I am making another long note here. I hope I

>answered

> > with what you were looking for.

> >

> > ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi , it is also important to many things besides the liver. Say, for the

total person. So I will be reading your hints right along! It amazed me that

the Drs. didn't say anything about my diet, except to lose some weight. I asked

if it made any difference and they said no. I think they are so busy, that they

just don't want to go into all of this stuff with us, and want to feed us pills

to keep us quiet. I suppose the best thing to do, would find a very good

nutritionist and stick with it. How about a naturepath, has anyone tried that.

I would if they didn't want to take me off of my meds. I kind of feel like they

are a life ring or something and without them I would drown. I hear the first

thing is off the meds you go, I guess I could call one and see. Lynn aih

Ceallachqn@... wrote:

> From: Ceallachqn@...

>

> Hi Lynn,

> Thanks for the support on the nutrition stuff. I know it might sound

> strange, but people tend to get a little touchy about the food they eat. For

> a long time I just kept my mouth shut because no one seemed to think that

> nutrition was all that important. Now that I have 15 years under my belt, I

> feel a little more secure in speaking up, but I still don't want to tread on

> anyone.

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn,

A naturopath might be a good choice. You need to interview them though.

anyone that wants to just pop you off your meds doesn't know what they are

doing. I have had experiences like that before. It took me awhile to find

someone I thought was competent. Also, naturopaths are not really common

where I live. There is one in the area and he is about 1 hour away. I

haven't seen him.

Doctors get NO training in nutrition in med school. They don't know a thing

about it. I take everything docs say with a grain of salt. After all, why

do you think they call medicine a " practice " . Because they don't know,

that's why! We are all test guinea pigs. They work from a " norm " . And

doctors are best at broken legs and trauma. They are lousy at treating long

term chronic illness. The reason for this is that the longer you are under

medical care the more drugs they put you on. a drug for this and a drug for

that. When I was 19 they had me on Procardia (a heart medication) for

Reynaud's, Clinoril for inflammation and antibiotics for bladder infections.

This was a constant thing. I have a rather low opinion of most doctors.

They do want to help. They just don't help me much. Anyway, cleaning up

your diet is a good place to start. There is always a place to start and

then you just keep adding to it. A little at a time and before you know it,

you have changed your life. It is possible.

[Guest guest]

I think it is possible too, but I have to do it one day at a time, like everyone

says. Years go by so fast now, I can't see why it will be like only yesterday I

started my new me! Thanks , Lynn

Ceallachqn@... wrote:

> From: Ceallachqn@...

>

> Hi Lynn,

> A naturopath might be a good choice. You need to interview them though.

> anyone that wants to just pop you off your meds doesn't know what they are

> doing. I have had experiences like that before. It took me awhile to find

> someone I thought was competent. Also, naturopaths are not really common

> where I live. There is one in the area and he is about 1 hour away. I

> haven't seen him.

>

> Doctors get NO training in nutrition in med school. They don't know a thing

> about it. I take everything docs say with a grain of salt. After all, why

> do you think they call medicine a " practice " . Because they don't know,

> that's why! We are all test guinea pigs. They work from a " norm " . And

> doctors are best at broken legs and trauma. They are lousy at treating long

> term chronic illness. The reason for this is that the longer you are under

> medical care the more drugs they put you on. a drug for this and a drug for

> that. When I was 19 they had me on Procardia (a heart medication) for

> Reynaud's, Clinoril for inflammation and antibiotics for bladder infections.

> This was a constant thing. I have a rather low opinion of most doctors.

> They do want to help. They just don't help me much. Anyway, cleaning up

> your diet is a good place to start. There is always a place to start and

> then you just keep adding to it. A little at a time and before you know it,

> you have changed your life. It is possible.

>

> ---------------------------

[Guest guest]

> Re Nutrition

I have strong carbo cravings--dove into two bagels plus a muffin today

plus one small piece of chocolate. Tried to stave off my fall off the

wagon with whole-wheat pasta last night but definitely didn't work. I

feel a whole lot more functional when I'm eating whole grains,

legumes, vegetables, fruit,and fish.

I definitely take a dive after indulging in bagels and muffins. I'm

not clear of the mechanism at work here that drives you to eat what's

not good for you even when you have full knowledge.

Kim

[Guest guest]

,

This is a perfect spot for newbies! With the majority of us having this

disease for so long we can help newbies in ways that newly diagnosed Lymies

cannot. So please don't be afraid to ask any kind of questions you have.

That is what we are here for.

I would guess you're feeling the effects of the colder weather at night.

But I certainly don't want to eliminate all possibility that the

amoxicillian caused some upset in your body!

Lowering carbs is primarily due to candida. I don't know a lot about this

topic though. Fortunately I have had few yeast problems over the years.

Hopefully other members have some ideas for you.

Robynn

This is what Dr. Burrascano has in his guidelines about yeast:

http://dwp.bigplanet.com/eojlyme/data/folders/Lyme%20Treatment%20Guidelines/

Lyme%20Guidelines%20May%202000.htm

MANAGING YEAST INFECTIONS

Many patients with Lyme Disease develop an overgrowth of yeast. Therefore,

it is recommended that on a daily basis the patient eat a full container of

yogurt that contains active cultures, and take acidophilus, two after each

meal. Here are some suggestions on how to control yeast:

MOUTH: A tongue with a beige coating, bad breath, and dysgeusia are signs of

thrush. Whenever the patient brushes their teeth, they must brush the tongue

using antiseptic mouthwashes followed by thorough rinsing. Because the

effectiveness of a mouthwash is related to how long it is in contact with

the germs, it should be kept in the mouth while brushing.

Since yeast germs feed on sugars, have patients avoid simple carbohydrates,

starches, fruits, and juices for at least two weeks, or until the problem is

gone.

Prescription medications may be necessary. Mycelex troches and Nystatin

liquid are not recommended for they contain large amounts of simple sugars.

Nystatin oral powder is used, mixed with water, to be swished and swallowed

qid (pc and hs). Systemic antifungals (Diflucan, Lamisil, Nizoral) may be

necessary.

The most effective (and drastic) treatment, employed as a last resort,

consists of using " Dakin's Solution " as a mouth rinse. This is a mixture of

household liquid bleach (Clorox), one teaspoon in four ounces of water. A

small amount is held in the mouth while brushing, then spit out, and

repeated until the mouth has cleared.

This is usually a one-time treatment, but may have to be repeated every few

weeks.

After using an antiseptic to clean the mouth, it is necessary to immediately

eat yogurt or liquid acidophilus, or chew an acidophilus capsule to

replenish the beneficial flora in the mouth. Because the germ count after

such a cleaning will be artificially reduced, and because yeasts are

opportunists, they would be the first to come back. By having the yogurt or

acidophilus then, a more normal oral flora will result and thrush will be

better controlled.

INTESTINAL TRACT: An overgrowth of yeast here will ferment dietary sugars

and starches, forming acids, gas, and alcohols. Symptoms include gas,

heartburn and/or pain in the stomach area, and because of the alcohol, there

can be headaches, dizziness, lightheadedness, and wooziness. To clear

intestinal yeast, first the tongue and mouth must be cleared so yeast does

not reenter the system with every swallow. Avoid sweets, starches, fruits

and juices for two weeks or longer to starve the germs. Use PLAIN yogurt

daily; acidophilus (2 tid pc) can be substituted. Systemic antifungals

usually are needed.

VAGINAL: An occasional vaginal yeast infection can be controlled with

products such as Monistat cream or suppositories. If it is a recurrent or

ongoing problem, then it often reflects a simultaneous intestinal infection,

reinfecting the genital area with every bowel movement. Therefore treat the

patient as above for intestinal overgrowth, and prescribe topical

preparations such as Monistat concurrently for two weeks.

[ ] nutrition

Is there a good resource for the nutrition necessary to follow? I have

bought a couple of books on the candida diet, but they are either very

strict or vague. Also, is the need for limiting carbs due to the candida?

I am one of those who crave carbs (bread lover) and am having a heck of a

time even cutting down on them. I don't know if it's just in my head or

not, but it seems I don't feel as well right after eating them. You'd think

that would be enough to stop, but nooo....

I also have another question about symptoms. I finished amoxicillin over a

week ago for a LUAT and am still awaiting the results. I have had a minor

sore throat and slight feeling like I have a cold since Monday and am

wondering if this is something else that could be an indicator, or maybe I

just have a mild cold. I can't remember the last time I had one.

Thanks for any feedback. I feel uncomfortable asking elementary questions

on a list that is 99% people who have been dealing with this for years, but

am under the impression this is also a support grp. for all. Please correct

me if I'm wrong, and I will try to find someplace else that might be for

newbies.

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Kim, that sounds more reasonable to follow than what I read.

I can't live without the fruit either.

The human spirit is stronger than anything that can

happen to it.

C.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Robynn. I have gotten a lot of information from all of you, and I

hope to continue with it. I should be getting my results back on the LUAT

by next week I would think. I am having a lot of acid indigestion, and it

does seem to come after eating refined carbs, so now that I know what it is,

I will attempt to be more careful about it. I am taking acidophilus

(primodophilus). Also I went back on the doxycycline after I stopped the

amoxicillin, so that may be at work here also.

Off to scrub the tongue (how do you do that without gagging?)

The human spirit is stronger than anything that can

happen to it.

C.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/27/00 2:23:30 PM, nebneb@... writes:

<< Many patients with Lyme Disease develop an overgrowth of yeast. Therefore,

it is recommended that on a daily basis the patient eat a full container of

yogurt that contains active cultures, and take acidophilus, two after each

meal. Here are some suggestions on how to control yeast:

CAUTION: Just a word of warning, yogurt has TONS OF SUGAR except the plain

yogurt (like Dannon). Check the labels of yogurt before digging in. You can

take the plain and add strawberries, bananas, etc.

sue in nj

I happen to be a yeast expert having MANY yeast infections in my life.

[Guest guest]

Good Luck Bob, SHU

[Guest guest]

Hi Bob,

Good luck with the diet. I really do hope that it works. Like you said

though, even if it isn't the 'cure' for your daughter's JRA at least

there won't be any unhealthy side effects to be concerned about, either.

Keep us updated. And if you see some really great results, I hope you'll

share the plan with us. I, too, was very wary of cytoxin. It's the only

med our doctors suggested that I didn't feel comfortable enough with to

give to my son.

Take care,

Georgina

bskae@... wrote:

>

> We are pulling out all stops to get our daughter through this 2 month

> old flare. We are looking closely at nutrition. Some of you have

> probably been down this road with a variety of results. But we are

> greatly encouraged by what we have learned recently and are about to

> follow a restricted diet.

>

> Not to sound to cryptic, but i promised the organization that

> designed this diet that i would not discuss the process until we

> actually see results that can be reported.

>

> We all have said at one time or another that we would leave no stone

> unturned in trying to help our kids. This is our stone! Or it may

> just be another stone along the path. But we have had the @#$%

> scared out of us by the idea of introducing chemo as part of the

> regimen of meds our little one must take.

>

> Of course, if it works the Dr.s would say the meds did it...and if it

> doesn't all we would have done is introduce a much healthier diet to

> our kid. Either way....if she isn't involved with Cytoxan who cares

> who gets the credit.

>

> Keep us in your prayers.....we will keep you posted.

>

> Bob

[Guest guest]

> Hi all. I'm Dave, I heard of this group from Hugh at ICCRA, I'm

> interested in food value of coconuts, (no sales stuff to my E-box

> please), especially in reference to hypothyroidism.

>

> I've read that soybeans and cabbage are goitregenic, whereas

coconuts

> and seafood are relatively high in iodine, so I guess

anti-goitregenic.

>

> South East Asians (and other people too) have a typical daily

diet of

> seafood and rice with soy sauce, soybean curd usually with

some

> coconut oil/milk.

>

> I grew up in Minnesota, USA, central prairies, far from the sea.

No

> coconuts or seafood except rarely. We ate lots of beef and

potatoes

> and bread and lots of cabbage and soybeans. Except for the

addition of

> iodized salt, we probably would have had more goiters and

cretins,

> which was common in mountainous inland areas far from the

sea. Anyone

> got info on this?

What are Goitrogens and How Do they Affect the Thyroid?

From Shomon,

Your Guide to Thyroid Disease.

FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now!

A.

Goitrogenic foods like brussels sprouts, rutabaga, turnips,

cauliflower, African cassava, millet, babassu (a palm-tree

coconut fruit popular in Brazil and Africa) cabbage, and kale can

act like the antithyroid drugs propylthiouracil and methimazole in

disabling the thyroid function, so they should not be eaten in

large amounts by someone on thyroid hormone replacement

who still has a thyroid. It's thought that the enzymes involved in

the formation of goitrogenic materials in plants can be destroyed

by cooking, so thorough cooking may minimize goitrogenic

potential.

DD (Dave Deden)

[Guest guest]

Soybeans, cabbage, et al. are fine to eat when processed properly.

Cruciferous vegetables require cooking or fermentation. Soybeans require

both. People eat them worldwide this way. Grains, beans, and other

vegetables will also suppress thyroid function if not cooked or processed

properly. Soy should be eaten in the traditional fashion and not in the

modern way of " soy protein " foods, soy milk and so forth.

If you avoid these foods out of concern for your thyroid, you will likely

turn to a diet that is much less healthy. They all have strong anti-cancer

properties, which animal products, of course, do not.

Nina

>

> I've read that soybeans and cabbage are goitregenic, whereas

coconuts

> and seafood are relatively high in iodine, so I guess

anti-goitregenic.

>

> South East Asians (and other people too) have a typical daily

diet of

> seafood and rice with soy sauce, soybean curd usually with

some

> coconut oil/milk.

>

> I grew up in Minnesota, USA, central prairies, far from the sea.

No

> coconuts or seafood except rarely. We ate lots of beef and

potatoes

> and bread and lots of cabbage and soybeans. Except for the

addition of

> iodized salt, we probably would have had more goiters and

cretins,

> which was common in mountainous inland areas far from the

sea. Anyone

> got info on this?

[Guest guest]

Thanks Nina. I've heard of a " raw foods " diet, which apparently

doesn't allow cooking or processing, and I think is vegan but I'm not

sure. That diet could be problematic with goitergenic foods I'd

guess. I didn't know that soy milk wasn't processed, I guess that

means it's goitergenic. They feed babies that as baby food, is that a

concern nowdays? If it's balanced with iodine foods (seafood,

coconuts) does it balance out?

Dave

> Soybeans, cabbage, et al. are fine to eat when processed properly.

> Cruciferous vegetables require cooking or fermentation. Soybeans

require

> both. People eat them worldwide this way. Grains, beans, and other

> vegetables will also suppress thyroid function if not cooked or

processed

> properly. Soy should be eaten in the traditional fashion and not

in the

> modern way of " soy protein " foods, soy milk and so forth.

>

> If you avoid these foods out of concern for your thyroid, you will

likely

> turn to a diet that is much less healthy. They all have strong

anti-cancer

> properties, which animal products, of course, do not.

>

> Nina

>

>

> >

> > I've read that soybeans and cabbage are goitregenic, whereas

> coconuts

> > and seafood are relatively high in iodine, so I guess

> anti-goitregenic.

> >

> > South East Asians (and other people too) have a typical daily

> diet of

> > seafood and rice with soy sauce, soybean curd usually with

> some

> > coconut oil/milk.

> >

> > I grew up in Minnesota, USA, central prairies, far from the sea.

> No

> > coconuts or seafood except rarely. We ate lots of beef and

> potatoes

> > and bread and lots of cabbage and soybeans. Except for the

> addition of

> > iodized salt, we probably would have had more goiters and

> cretins,

> > which was common in mountainous inland areas far from the

> sea. Anyone

> > got info on this?

[Guest guest]

Let me clarify. Soy products should be eaten in their traditional fashion

(as tempeh, natto, miso, tamari, shoyu. Tofu is probably OK). I'm not sure

about soy baby formula but I wouldn't endorse it too highly.

Raw-foods people are often vegan but not always. You can eat an all-raw

diet including raw meat and raw milk. Raw-food diets are fine with

processing techniques such as culturing and sprouting, just not with the use

of heat to the food.

Hope this helps.

Nina

Re: nutrition

Thanks Nina. I've heard of a " raw foods " diet, which apparently

doesn't allow cooking or processing, and I think is vegan but I'm not

sure. That diet could be problematic with goitergenic foods I'd

guess. I didn't know that soy milk wasn't processed, I guess that

means it's goitergenic. They feed babies that as baby food, is that a

concern nowdays? If it's balanced with iodine foods (seafood,

coconuts) does it balance out?

Dave

> Soybeans, cabbage, et al. are fine to eat when processed properly.

> Cruciferous vegetables require cooking or fermentation. Soybeans

require

> both. People eat them worldwide this way. Grains, beans, and other

> vegetables will also suppress thyroid function if not cooked or

processed

> properly. Soy should be eaten in the traditional fashion and not

in the

> modern way of " soy protein " foods, soy milk and so forth.

>

> If you avoid these foods out of concern for your thyroid, you will

likely

> turn to a diet that is much less healthy. They all have strong

anti-cancer

> properties, which animal products, of course, do not.

>

> Nina

>

>

> >

> > I've read that soybeans and cabbage are goitregenic, whereas

> coconuts

> > and seafood are relatively high in iodine, so I guess

> anti-goitregenic.

> >

> > South East Asians (and other people too) have a typical daily

> diet of

> > seafood and rice with soy sauce, soybean curd usually with

> some

> > coconut oil/milk.

> >

> > I grew up in Minnesota, USA, central prairies, far from the sea.

> No

> > coconuts or seafood except rarely. We ate lots of beef and

> potatoes

> > and bread and lots of cabbage and soybeans. Except for the

> addition of

> > iodized salt, we probably would have had more goiters and

> cretins,

> > which was common in mountainous inland areas far from the

> sea. Anyone

> > got info on this?