Re: Question re Challenge Test

[Guest guest]

> My question is, though, if gut is not healed, is it safe to still do challenge

test? Right now, we are doing another round of Diflucan; my son has a lot of

yeast issues.

My son's gut was not healed until after about 50 rounds of chelation.

I would not do a challenge test, that is a lot of chelator for the body to

process. You can use a hair test to get good information, and it is non-invasive

and won't cause problems

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html

Dana

[Guest guest]

Hi, Dana. Thanks for your reponse, but I guess I'm being dense, but I don't

understand. Perhaps I misunderstood the doctor. My son's hair test came back

and the doctor is concerned about his lead and cadmium levels. The doctor gave

me a prescription for chemet. I'm supposed to give this to my son over the

weekend and then on Monday take a urine sample. Is this not a challenge test?

I'm still fairly new to the bio world, so this is very hard for me to

understand.

If I may, can I ask for some more insight? My son has two mutations of the

MTHFR gene (677 and 1298). Does this make him an undermethylator? He started

MB12 at the end of July and we've seen some good things.

Thank you again, Dana.

God bless,

Debbie

It was because my >

> My son's gut was not healed until after about 50 rounds of chelation.

>

> I would not do a challenge test, that is a lot of chelator for the body to

process. You can use a hair test to get good information, and it is non-invasive

and won't cause problems

>

> http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html

>

> Dana

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Debbie

I agree with Dana, I would not do a challenge test they are usually done in high

doses and may redistribute metals into unwanted places causing a worsening of

symptoms.

From what you have said your doc seems to be following what a lot of other docs

do, perhaps because he/she does not know any better and not really looking at

what is individual for your son, I would be a little concerned about this doc.

Cheers Kenny

>

> Hi, Dana. Thanks for your reponse, but I guess I'm being dense, but I don't

understand. Perhaps I misunderstood the doctor. My son's hair test came back

and the doctor is concerned about his lead and cadmium levels. The doctor gave

me a prescription for chemet. I'm supposed to give this to my son over the

weekend and then on Monday take a urine sample. Is this not a challenge test?

I'm still fairly new to the bio world, so this is very hard for me to

understand.

>

> If I may, can I ask for some more insight? My son has two mutations of the

MTHFR gene (677 and 1298). Does this make him an undermethylator? He started

MB12 at the end of July and we've seen some good things.

>

> Thank you again, Dana.

>

> God bless,

>

> Debbie

>

> It was because my >

> > My son's gut was not healed until after about 50 rounds of chelation.

> >

> > I would not do a challenge test, that is a lot of chelator for the body to

process. You can use a hair test to get good information, and it is non-invasive

and won't cause problems

> >

> > http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/HOW_TO_hair_test.html

> >

> > Dana

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Kenny. Now, I'm getting really nervous. My son's doc is a

well-known and, I'm certain, well-respected DAN doc in the Washington DC and

Baltimore, MD area. I'm going to " try " to decipher his handwritten prescription

and if you or Dana or anyone else can please, please tell me if this sounds like

a challenge test, or if this sounds like he's actually starting chelation. Of

course, I will call the doctor, but I'd like your opinions/experience first, if

possible. I really, really appreciate this.

The prescription looks like:

Chemet 100 [g?] DMSA

2 cap[sules?] [every?] 8 hr.

on Fri., Sat. and Sun.

90 [weeks?] [does this make sense?]

Debbie

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry, I forgot to add that my son weighs 38 pounds and almost 3 1/2 years

old.

Thanks, Debbie

[Guest guest]

if you want your kid to get well then read this :

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ANDY_INDEX.html#preparing

http://onibasu.com/wiki/Cutler_protocol

you dont need a doctor to chelate your kid

most of the dr dan included dont understand or are not

willing to accept the fundamentals of dosing

if you dont do low and frequent dosing you can get really really really sick

i give my kid 4 mg of dmsa + 4 mg of ala every 3 hrs for 3 days on 4 days off if

i give more than 5 mg + 5 mg the kid is very very very uncomfortable, if i gave

a dose of 50 or 100mg i dont want to even think of how bad off the kid would be

this is simply too much my kid is 50lbs

and if you dont give the dose every 3hours you can re distribut the metals to

places they shouldnt be and never really get rid of them efficiently

detox is hard on ones system some more than others if you are one of the some

you would get really sick if you took a challenge test with the extreme dose

they suggest

also your dr may know know how to use ala

if you dont use als you may never get mercury our of the brain if its there

good luck

[Guest guest]

Ps another answer to Yeast is give your child " ProBiotic capsules; A.

>

> if you want your kid to get well then read this :

>

> http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/ANDY_INDEX.html#preparing

>

> http://onibasu.com/wiki/Cutler_protocol

>

>

> you dont need a doctor to chelate your kid

> most of the dr dan included dont understand or are not

> willing to accept the fundamentals of dosing

>

> if you dont do low and frequent dosing you can get really really really sick

>

> i give my kid 4 mg of dmsa + 4 mg of ala every 3 hrs for 3 days on 4 days off

if i give more than 5 mg + 5 mg the kid is very very very uncomfortable, if i

gave a dose of 50 or 100mg i dont want to even think of how bad off the kid

would be this is simply too much my kid is 50lbs

>

> and if you dont give the dose every 3hours you can re distribut the metals to

places they shouldnt be and never really get rid of them efficiently

>

> detox is hard on ones system some more than others if you are one of the some

you would get really sick if you took a challenge test with the extreme dose

they suggest

>

> also your dr may know know how to use ala

>

> if you dont use als you may never get mercury our of the brain if its there

>

> good luck

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi, Dana. Thanks for your reponse, but I guess I'm being dense, but I don't

understand. Perhaps I misunderstood the doctor. My son's hair test came back

and the doctor is concerned about his lead and cadmium levels. The doctor gave

me a prescription for chemet. I'm supposed to give this to my son over the

weekend and then on Monday take a urine sample. Is this not a challenge test?

Yes, it is a challenge test.

Dana

[Guest guest]

>

> Thank you, Kenny. Now, I'm getting really nervous. My son's doc is a

well-known and, I'm certain, well-respected DAN doc in the Washington DC and

Baltimore, MD area.

I know of one well-known and well-respected DAN doctor who recommended something

for the NT younger sibling of an autistic child, and that younger sibling was

autistic about 3 weeks later. You are right to always question what is

recommended for your child, no matter what source it comes from.

> The prescription looks like:

> Chemet 100 [g?] DMSA

> 2 cap[sules?] [every?] 8 hr.

This is a very high dose.

> on Fri., Sat. and Sun.

Some challenge tests go over three days, others are just one very high dose.

Yours is giving a very high dose, apparently 3x per day for three days. I would

NOT do this. For a 3yo, I would not start with anything over maybe 25-50mg.

If you already have a test that causes the doctor to be concerned about lead,

why is he having you do yet ANOTHER test?

Dana

[Guest guest]

Hi Debbie

I assume this is 100 mg over 90 rounds(weeks) then this is not a challenge test

but a chelation schedule and IMO a potentially dangerous and inappropriate

schedule especially for a 38lb child..

Unfortunately even well known Dans are not usually clued up regarding chelation

for instance I know that Woody Mcguiness who is very knowledgeable in many areas

of bio-med has recommended giving a kid IV EDTA on another group that I belong

to, so his knowledge would not appear to extend to chelation.

I would suggest looking at the links provided and agree with ddsophied.

Joining even if it was only to look at the files there is likely

to be helpful.

All the best

Kenny

>

> Thank you, Kenny. Now, I'm getting really nervous. My son's doc is a

well-known and, I'm certain, well-respected DAN doc in the Washington DC and

Baltimore, MD area. I'm going to " try " to decipher his handwritten prescription

and if you or Dana or anyone else can please, please tell me if this sounds like

a challenge test, or if this sounds like he's actually starting chelation. Of

course, I will call the doctor, but I'd like your opinions/experience first, if

possible. I really, really appreciate this.

>

> The prescription looks like:

>

> Chemet 100 [g?] DMSA

> 2 cap[sules?] [every?] 8 hr.

> on Fri., Sat. and Sun.

> 90 [weeks?] [does this make sense?]

>

> Debbie

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, everyone. All I really knew before the last couple of days about

chelation was that it removed metals. I also knew that you had to be careful.

I did not know about the redistribution and Cutler's protocol versus DAN

protocol. I'm really glad I found you guys. I have joined the autism mercury

group and am looking at those files and trying to absorb everying. (I believe I

have retention problems . However, I guess I'm feeling even more defeated

than before. Not it's time for me to whine... I have no idea how I can do

the 3-hour protocol for three days. I have an hour and a half commute each way

to work and I don't get home til 7:00. So I would have to rely on my daycare

provider and hubby to do this. And I'm not sure that I can. The daycare

provider says that she gives my son his supplements (vitamins, calcium and

magnesium) and I believe she is, but I don't think I can rely on her, nor should

I in any event, to give my son something like DMSA. I leave at 8:00 and get

home at 7:00. Hubby leaves at 5:30 and picks up Jake at around 3:30. I believe

hubby would do as I ask, but he has yet to read one thing on biomedical, or even

autism for that matter. He simply follows what I ask him to do, I believe.

It's interesting that everyone has seen the changes in Jake since the B12 but

they have yet to acknowledge that it is the B12. By the way, Arnold Brenner is

the DAN doctor my son sees, if anyone is familiar with him. I don't know how

I'm going to do this..... Thanx, Debbie

[Guest guest]

>>I have no idea how I can do the 3-hour protocol for three days. I have an

hour and a half commute each way to work and I don't get home til 7:00.

Most people do the protocol on the weekends.

I gave ALA 3x per day, which worked well for all four of my kids and also

myself. It won't work well for all kids tho.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Thanks again Dana, but a three-day protocol over a weekend would still include a

Monday or a Friday, so how to do it? It also appears that Jake can't take ALA

because he has high copper. And since the hair test doesn't seem to show an

abnormal mineral transport, it appears that Jake maybe doesn't have a problem

with mercury. (I've attached my son's hair test to the files, where the lab

tests are, labeled " Jake DDI Test " .) Jake has low zinc and has since we've

started this journey. He was getting one tsp. a day, and that has been upped to

2 tsp. daily. Any insights/thoughts on Jake's test would be much appreciated.

Take care and God bless,

Debbie

[Guest guest]

>

> Hubby leaves at 5:30 and picks up Jake at around 3:30. I believe hubby would

do as I ask, but he has yet to read one thing on biomedical, or even autism for

that matter.

Your husband could give the first dose of chelator around 3:30 p.m. Fridays.

That's about the time I usually start a round.

My husband never reads about autism either and was against chelation at first,

but finally agreed to try the Cutler protocol for 10 weekends. Now, 40+ weekends

later, he is completely for it because of the improvements and helps me out with

dosing occasionally.

See you on the board.

-Ann

[Guest guest]

Hi Debbie

I have looked at Jake's hair test.

As you have said the counting rules are not met.

Lead being in the yellow may be significant, also it is a bit unusual to have

undetectable Mercury, this may suggest that Jake is holding on to it too well,

so I personally would not rule Mercury toxicity out, this may possibly also be a

reason for red Arsenic and Silver which sometimes elevate with Mercury toxicity.

It may be worth giving DMSA at around 5mg per dose to start with every 4 hours

day and night, it may also be worth giving ALA at some stage at the same dose to

start with every 3 hours stretching to every 4 at night and see if this makes a

difference to Jake after about 10 rounds. If you combine the 2 then dose using

the ALA rule.

According to some recent posts from Andy Cutler ALA at this dose is not likely

to be problematical with regards the high copper, however lowering copper might

be an idea to do 1st for a month or 2 as if this is a real problem positive

results should be seen fairly soon. Dana has some good suggestions below.

http://www.danasview.net/metals.htm

Also if chelating for lead DMSA needs only to be used for about 4-8 rounds and

then can be used about once a month as lead leeches slowly from the bones and

organs.

Hope this helps

Cheers Kenny

>

> Thanks again Dana, but a three-day protocol over a weekend would still include

a Monday or a Friday, so how to do it? It also appears that Jake can't take ALA

because he has high copper. And since the hair test doesn't seem to show an

abnormal mineral transport, it appears that Jake maybe doesn't have a problem

with mercury. (I've attached my son's hair test to the files, where the lab

tests are, labeled " Jake DDI Test " .) Jake has low zinc and has since we've

started this journey. He was getting one tsp. a day, and that has been upped to

2 tsp. daily. Any insights/thoughts on Jake's test would be much appreciated.

>

> Take care and God bless,

>

> Debbie

>

[Guest guest]

> Thanks again Dana, but a three-day protocol over a weekend would still include

a Monday or a Friday, so how to do it?

Most parents start on Friday just after the child finishes school, and finish on

Monday morning just before the child starts school again.

>>It also appears that Jake can't take ALA because he has high copper.

Take a few weeks to load him with zinc before starting ALA, and continue the

zinc throughout the chelation, until his zinc levels are normal.

>>And since the hair test doesn't seem to show an abnormal mineral transport, it

appears that Jake maybe doesn't have a problem with mercury.

Does he have problems with certain foods? If so, he is likely mercury toxic.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone for responding. I really appreciate all your wisdom and

experience.

Dana, you asked if my son had any problems with any particular foods. On the

food panel test, Jake had 1 plus for both wheat and milk and a few other items.

He had a two for peanuts. When we did the GFCF, I didn't notice really any

difference. Of course, I found out months after the fact that my daycare

provider was occasionally giving him some no-no foods. So, I don't know how

much of a difference that made. (I do realize that the smallest amount can be a

real problem for some.) I felt defeated and gave up the diet once I learned

about enzymes. Within a month of starting the enzymes, for the first time Jake

called me mommy and started pointing. I cried. Those were two big things I saw

that I remember off the top of my head. Oh, and let me not forget that he

doesn't suffer as much from diaper rashes. Jake has a lot of yeast issues, and

has since he was born. Within his first week of life, he had a nasty diaper

rash, which I now know was yeast. So, we haven't attempted the diet again,

although the doctor is pushing it.

I believe my son's biggest concerns at the moment are his language and

cognition. He's starting to occasionally put two words together (music to my

ears), but has a lot of echolalia right now, which I understand can be a good

thing. As an example regarding his cognition, if you ask him where something is

on a page, he easily points it out. But if you point to the object or person

and ask " who's this, " or " what's this, " he can't answer. He just repeats what

you said. His 1/2 hour EEG came back fine.

He doesn't stim as much which I attribute to not only Diflucan, but MB12. Does

that make sense? He does have one stim, if that's what it is, that he still

continues to do, albeit not quite as much. He lays on his back, legs in the

air, and pushes his fists into his groin area. He doesn't appear to be in pain,

but he gets clammy and sweaty. His regular pediatrician tried to tell me it was

masturbation (not), and the OT thinks it's a sensory issue. The developmental

pediatrican at KKI was impressed with his " six pack. "

Sorry for the book , but again, I appreciate everyone's wisdom and experience.

Thanks and God bless, Debbie

[Guest guest]

> Dana, you asked if my son had any problems with any particular foods. On the

food panel test, Jake had 1 plus for both wheat and milk and a few other items.

He had a two for peanuts. When we did the GFCF, I didn't notice really any

difference. Of course, I found out months after the fact that my daycare

provider was occasionally giving him some no-no foods. So, I don't know how

much of a difference that made. (I do realize that the smallest amount can be a

real problem for some.) I felt defeated and gave up the diet once I learned

about enzymes. Within a month of starting the enzymes, for the first time Jake

called me mommy and started pointing. I cried.

Quite a few kids can use enzymes and don't need the diet. It sounds like your

son is one of them. Congrats on figuring out what he needed!

>>Jake has a lot of yeast issues, and has since he was born. Within his first

week of life, he had a nasty diaper rash, which I now know was yeast. So, we

haven't attempted the diet again, although the doctor is pushing it.

Tell the doctor he is doing great with enzymes, so you won't be removing any

foods unless you determine that the enzymes are not addressing certain foods.

Definitely increase the yeast protocol

http://www.danasview.net/yeast.htm

> I believe my son's biggest concerns at the moment are his language and

cognition. He's starting to occasionally put two words together (music to my

ears), but has a lot of echolalia right now, which I understand can be a good

thing.

For language, what worked best for my son was anti-fungals, anti-virals, and

B12. Echolalia was eliminated with the anti-fungals and B12/folic.

> He doesn't stim as much which I attribute to not only Diflucan, but MB12.

Does that make sense?

Yes, yeast and B12 deficiency caused a lot of stims here.

>>He does have one stim, if that's what it is, that he still continues to do,

albeit not quite as much. He lays on his back, legs in the air, and pushes his

fists into his groin area. He doesn't appear to be in pain, but he gets clammy

and sweaty. His regular pediatrician tried to tell me it was masturbation

(not), and the OT thinks it's a sensory issue. The developmental pediatrican at

KKI was impressed with his " six pack. "

Both masturbation and sensory issues were caused by yeast here. So you might

want to increase the yeast protocol and see if that stim goes away also.

Dana