Re: viral or yeast flare, first month on SCD - what does all this mean?

[Guest guest]

If you're treating the viral problem, then the yeast will be an issue, during

the entire treatment. I would not stop and start a viral protocol unless you're

measuring titers of the virus and know what you are trying to do. Yeast is

always present, it's when it gets out of hand that we have problems. To keep the

yeast in check, there are multiple things you can do, but since you aren't on

the enzymes, I'm reluctant to suggest our protocol. Although, the Candex you

mentioned is an enzyme. It's not bad that you're not on the enzymes, just makes

it difficult because I've never done a yeast protocol and had success without

the enzymes in play. We too were in this spot, more and more foods causing

issues. If the gut lining is damaged, then any food that is not digested

completely, will pose a problem, no matter what diet you are on. The viral

treatment will amp up the yeast for us everytime, so for my son, who also has

HHV6, a yeast protocol is essential to do simultaneous with the viral treatment.

It's tempting to just jump in, we all want our kids completely healthy. The

problem is, these kids aren't healthy, and to challenge their bodies further, to

ask them to endure the die-off and other issues, I think is asking too much. I'm

just a Mom, but I've been there, and done that, and you did ask. Before you

start juggling all these balls, you need to ask yourself which balls you need,

and once you've identified which ones you need, you have to make sure you

understand how they work, because you can use each ball in many many ways. And

you know how fast to juggle and what to do if you drop one. For instance,

enzymes, are used to digest food 1) this nourishes the body, aren't these little

ones suffering from malnourishment? Hence all the supplements like B6, B12, etc.

2)they keep the undigested food from causing further inflammation (the gut

lining is always in a state of repair, like our skin, but needs the nutrients to

regenerate, and needs to be kept free of further irritation, would your skin

really heal if you kept scraping it in the same spot day after day?) it's the

undigested food that gets past the gut barrier in unrecognizable unusable immune

provoking forms that causes further inflammation, and this is not limited to the

gut 3) clears out the gunk leftover, long after the food has been digested. this

is why we use it with both our yeast and viral protocol. Knowing this about the

enzymes (one of my balls in the air) I can use them in many different ways to

many different effects. For instance, we require fewer nourishing supplements,

because the enzymes allow us to expand his food repertoire as well as get the

most nutrients out of the food consumed. (which was great because my munchkin

was supersensitive to every supplement, I mean we'd go through a dozen brands of

the same supplement to find one that didn't cause problems for him) Without

further inflammation/irritation his immune system is allowed to spend some of

it's considerable resources on attacking the viral and bacterial load and keep

the yeast in check and finally the enzymes clear out the gunk. Doesn't do me any

good to attack things like yeast, if all that junk is going to ferment and cause

other issues, I need to get it out, gently. So, the No Fenol and other enzymes

do that, they thin the mucus, and instead of ear infections and sinus infections

(because he can't clear this stuff out on his own, he's immune compromised

remember) these act as anti-inflammatory and thin everything out to the degree

it doesn't get clogged, it drains quite nicely and naturally. Added benefit that

I love the most, we don't damage his kidney's and liver or heart with heavy

duty pharmaceuticals that were really designed for adults anyway. Go ahead and

ask your doctor for the results of a 20 year study on the effect of a drug like

Valtrex or Nizoral on a child under the age of 5. They can't give you one, cause

they haven't done it. We did Valtrex for 6 mo. I had all the research I could

get my hands on. I consoled myself with the data that said if the drug

encountered cells not carrying the HHV6 it would just bounce around until it

found cells that did, and then attach to it and carry it out through his

kidneys. But after 6 mo. with no decrease in his viral load, and the yeast issue

getting worse, and the serious negative side effects from the Nizoral kicking

in, well, we gave it up. We've had a lot more success with other treatments,

we've not gotten the HHV6 in check, but the physical and behavioral issues

associated with the HHV6 are subsiding, and that tells me a lot. It means I'm

giving his immune system a boost or a break, however you look at it, he isn't

struggling with the virus like he was before. And these alternatives, aren't so

bad that we have to watch his kidney and liver function with monthly tests. I

had a Beautiful 3 year old boy that couldn't talk, drooled constantly, and whose

evaluators said I'd be lucky if he ever learned to dress himself grow into a

still Beautiful 9 year old, who does beautifully in a regular school,

rides/races his bike around with his friends, eats like a horse, not only

dresses himself, but helps dress his 3 year old sister who has more energy than

patience for things like shoes and mittens, and talks so much that his father

and I can't hold a conversation without his piping in. I hope some of this

helps. -----

From: Kelley

Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:14 PM

Subject: viral or yeast flare, first month on SCD - what does all

this mean?

Hello everyone. I'm apologizing in advance for such a long post, but

I'm so confused and don't want to leave anything out in case any of

you can help. Thank you. Thank you!

My son (28-months w/ Fragile X and PDD-NOS) started with the Specific

Carbohydrate Diet almost a month ago. He's doing beautifully with it:

improved communication and social skills, and having well formed

stools pretty consistently for the first time in about a year

(unbelievable joy!). The problem is, I think he's having either a

yeast or viral flare right now, but I'm not sure which, and I don't

know what to do. We've stopped a lot of our biomedical stuff while

starting SCD, and now I'm not sure what to do next.

Before starting SCD, he was GFCFSF and following the DAN protocol,

which included a long list of vitamins, minerals, probiotics, enzymes,

EFAs, MB-12 shots, Valtrex and Fluconazole.

Just prior to beginning SCD, things were getting pretty bad: constant

diarrhea and lots of signs that he was intolerant to something we were

giving him (food, supplements, we couldn't figure it out).

In desperation, we started SCD and stopped most of his supplements

either because they were not SCD legal or we had a feeling they were

causing problems. We continued only the B-12 shots, P-5-P (Vit. B6),

liquid zinc, and S. Boulardi. The result was nearly overnight success!

Yea! We also tried him back on enzymes a few days after starting, but

quickly found out that those were not well tolerated either, so we

stopped them. I've restarted the cod liver oil with success, and will

soon be trying the probiotic goat's milk yogurt (fingers crossed). . .

Things had been fairly stable and progressing nicely for the last

three weeks, until he developed a rash on his face. At the same time,

he began waking up a lot at night, being really really fussy and

clingy during the day, and having more sensory defensiveness. I also

noticed the bloated belly was back (had been gone since starting SCD)

with gas and belching. I don't think this is just die off, because we

made it through that in the first 10 days or so, and were back to

happy days and nights again. I've been super strict about the diet -

no infractions at all. We've been steady on the same foods for several

days, so I really don't think the rash is a food reaction.

The rash is the one so many parents have described: lots of little red

pin prick spots scattered around in patches. I've seen this rash

linger, fading and flaring on different parts of his body for the last

2 years - not usually on his face, mostly on his chest and back. It

disappeared completely a few days after starting SCD, but now its back.

I've always attributed this rash to a chronic Herpes-6 infection,

which I believe my son first contracted when he had the Roseola virus

at 12 months, and soon after began having occasional " drop attack "

type seizures. He has not had a seizure since starting Valtrex, nor

did he have one in the last month while off the Valtrex. Since

beginning to read more from this and other groups, I've also wondered

if this rash and other symptoms he's having from time to time are from

yeast flaring. I'm still pretty confused about differentiating virus,

yeast and bacterial flares.

So, back to the current rash on his face . . . interestingly, while

performing his oral motor therapy, I felt a rough patch inside his

mouth that corresponded with the most concentrated area of rash on the

outside of his face. This spot was clearly tender for him. I thought

it may be some type of sore, but he wouldn't let me get a good look.

Then, just as the rash on his face began to fade, a cold sore appeared

on his upper lip just under his nose. He's never had a cold sore

before. This is the first crystal clear evidence of the HHV6 virus

I've seen.

What should I take this cold sore to mean? Is this a good sign that

his body is kicking out the virus? Or is this a bad sign that the

virus is flaring and that we need to restart the Valtrex (and of

course anti-yeast therapy).

How does this relate to the rash if at all? Is this all a sign of

virus, or is this both yeast and virus flaring?

I don't think I can give him fluconazole (its sweet, so it probably

has SCD-illegal additives), so I'm considering Candex and/or the

BrainChild anti-yeast protocol. . .

Any advice from those of you who've been through this already is

greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Kelley

[Guest guest]

>>The problem is, I think he's having either a

> yeast or viral flare right now, but I'm not sure which, and I don't

> know what to do.

If you suspect yeast, try adding biotin. For viral, try adding

vitamin C and lysine. Watch for yeast if you add the anti-virals.

> he began waking up a lot at night, being really really fussy and

> clingy during the day, and having more sensory defensiveness. I also

> noticed the bloated belly was back (had been gone since starting SCD)

> with gas and belching.

Might be yeast coming back. Or try adding folic acid to help with

absorption of the mB12.

> I've always attributed this rash to a chronic Herpes-6 infection,

Lysine eliminated that at my house.

> did he have one in the last month while off the Valtrex.

Valtrex suppresses the virus, might not eliminate it. Try adding lysine.

> Then, just as the rash on his face began to fade, a cold sore appeared

> on his upper lip just under his nose. He's never had a cold sore

> before. This is the first crystal clear evidence of the HHV6 virus

> I've seen.

Lysine eliminated those at my house also. Yes, it is a sign of herpes

virus. It appears the virus is either increasing, or trying to leave

through various outlets.

> What should I take this cold sore to mean? Is this a good sign that

> his body is kicking out the virus? Or is this a bad sign that the

> virus is flaring and that we need to restart the Valtrex (and of

> course anti-yeast therapy).

I would not restart the Valtrex, because all it does is suppress. I

would start lysine, to eliminate the virus.

Dana

[Guest guest]

>

I would guess this is viral because you are seeing problems at night.

Yeast and viral can be hand in hand as when you get a virus going out

the yeast flares up so cover your bets. Vitamin C and maybe Olive

leaf extract, and up your probiotics or whatever your preferred yeast

treatments are.

Good luck,

Elaine

> Hello everyone. I'm apologizing in advance for such a long post, but

> I'm so confused and don't want to leave anything out in case any of

> you can help. Thank you. Thank you!

>

> My son (28-months w/ Fragile X and PDD-NOS) started with the Specific

> Carbohydrate Diet almost a month ago. He's doing beautifully with it:

> improved communication and social skills, and having well formed

> stools pretty consistently for the first time in about a year

> (unbelievable joy!). The problem is, I think he's having either a

> yeast or viral flare right now, but I'm not sure which, and I don't

> know what to do. We've stopped a lot of our biomedical stuff while

> starting SCD, and now I'm not sure what to do next.

>

> Before starting SCD, he was GFCFSF and following the DAN protocol,

> which included a long list of vitamins, minerals, probiotics, enzymes,

> EFAs, MB-12 shots, Valtrex and Fluconazole.

>

> Just prior to beginning SCD, things were getting pretty bad: constant

> diarrhea and lots of signs that he was intolerant to something we were

> giving him (food, supplements, we couldn't figure it out).

>

> In desperation, we started SCD and stopped most of his supplements

> either because they were not SCD legal or we had a feeling they were

> causing problems. We continued only the B-12 shots, P-5-P (Vit. B6),

> liquid zinc, and S. Boulardi. The result was nearly overnight success!

> Yea! We also tried him back on enzymes a few days after starting, but

> quickly found out that those were not well tolerated either, so we

> stopped them. I've restarted the cod liver oil with success, and will

> soon be trying the probiotic goat's milk yogurt (fingers crossed). . .

>

> Things had been fairly stable and progressing nicely for the last

> three weeks, until he developed a rash on his face. At the same time,

> he began waking up a lot at night, being really really fussy and

> clingy during the day, and having more sensory defensiveness. I also

> noticed the bloated belly was back (had been gone since starting SCD)

> with gas and belching. I don't think this is just die off, because we

> made it through that in the first 10 days or so, and were back to

> happy days and nights again. I've been super strict about the diet –

> no infractions at all. We've been steady on the same foods for several

> days, so I really don't think the rash is a food reaction.

>

> The rash is the one so many parents have described: lots of little red

> pin prick spots scattered around in patches. I've seen this rash

> linger, fading and flaring on different parts of his body for the last

> 2 years – not usually on his face, mostly on his chest and back. It

> disappeared completely a few days after starting SCD, but now its back.

>

> I've always attributed this rash to a chronic Herpes-6 infection,

> which I believe my son first contracted when he had the Roseola virus

> at 12 months, and soon after began having occasional " drop attack "

> type seizures. He has not had a seizure since starting Valtrex, nor

> did he have one in the last month while off the Valtrex. Since

> beginning to read more from this and other groups, I've also wondered

> if this rash and other symptoms he's having from time to time are from

> yeast flaring. I'm still pretty confused about differentiating virus,

> yeast and bacterial flares.

>

> So, back to the current rash on his face . . . interestingly, while

> performing his oral motor therapy, I felt a rough patch inside his

> mouth that corresponded with the most concentrated area of rash on the

> outside of his face. This spot was clearly tender for him. I thought

> it may be some type of sore, but he wouldn't let me get a good look.

> Then, just as the rash on his face began to fade, a cold sore appeared

> on his upper lip just under his nose. He's never had a cold sore

> before. This is the first crystal clear evidence of the HHV6 virus

> I've seen.

>

> What should I take this cold sore to mean? Is this a good sign that

> his body is kicking out the virus? Or is this a bad sign that the

> virus is flaring and that we need to restart the Valtrex (and of

> course anti-yeast therapy).

>

> How does this relate to the rash if at all? Is this all a sign of

> virus, or is this both yeast and virus flaring?

>

> I don't think I can give him fluconazole (its sweet, so it probably

> has SCD-illegal additives), so I'm considering Candex and/or the

> BrainChild anti-yeast protocol. . .

>

> Any advice from those of you who've been through this already is

> greatly appreciated!

>

> Thanks!

> Kelley

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Dana. Helpful and concise, as always!

> >>The problem is, I think he's having either a

> > yeast or viral flare right now, but I'm not sure which, and I don't

> > know what to do.

>

>

> If you suspect yeast, try adding biotin. For viral, try adding

> vitamin C and lysine. Watch for yeast if you add the anti-virals.

>

>

> > he began waking up a lot at night, being really really fussy and

> > clingy during the day, and having more sensory defensiveness. I also

> > noticed the bloated belly was back (had been gone since starting SCD)

> > with gas and belching.

>

>

> Might be yeast coming back. Or try adding folic acid to help with

> absorption of the mB12.

>

>

> > I've always attributed this rash to a chronic Herpes-6 infection,

>

>

> Lysine eliminated that at my house.

>

>

> > did he have one in the last month while off the Valtrex.

>

>

> Valtrex suppresses the virus, might not eliminate it. Try adding

lysine.

>

>

> > Then, just as the rash on his face began to fade, a cold sore appeared

> > on his upper lip just under his nose. He's never had a cold sore

> > before. This is the first crystal clear evidence of the HHV6 virus

> > I've seen.

>

>

> Lysine eliminated those at my house also. Yes, it is a sign of herpes

> virus. It appears the virus is either increasing, or trying to leave

> through various outlets.

>

>

> > What should I take this cold sore to mean? Is this a good sign that

> > his body is kicking out the virus? Or is this a bad sign that the

> > virus is flaring and that we need to restart the Valtrex (and of

> > course anti-yeast therapy).

>

>

> I would not restart the Valtrex, because all it does is suppress. I

> would start lysine, to eliminate the virus.

>

> Dana

>

[Guest guest]

My son is also on SCD (since August 15th 2007) and 3 weeks after

starting him on 410 mg/day of OLE, he broke out in a rash around mouth

AND a rash above his rear on either side.

It looks suspiciously like roseola. I asked to have his HHV6 titres

checked for this, and his IGG is way out of range. (1:80 and supposed

to be 1:10) At 17 months old, he had a really bad case of it. These

numbers could just be indicative of past infection or they could be

pertinent to now. In 6 mos. after more antiviral stuff, I am going to

see if the titres went down just for the heck of it.

It was recommended to me by a very conservative doctor to continue with

the OLE at the same dose for now because it is obviously helping to

kick something out and his language, affect, etc, have been improving.

Love to know anyone's thoughts on if/when I should increase. (I want as

much crap out of him as I can get!)

He is defintely a little more cranky right now, and this crankiness

correllates with the presentation of the rash. I hate knowing I am

giving him something that is causing him to be miserable, but that is

part of the world of biomed.

If SCD is helping your child's gut, it may be helping his immune system

to " kick out " some kind of viral presence. SCD virtually eliminated my

son's horrible fall seasonal allergies and now, instead of NEVER

getting sick (from being in an abnormal state of hyperimmunity), he is

catching colds and stuff, meaning his immune system is shifting to a

more " normal " state.

Hope something here helps.

MS Mom to age 5 ASD child who regressed at 30 months