Re: Newbie Question - Yeast despite negative labs?

[Guest guest]

i will let others answer the yeast; i think there are different types so the

tests could say there is not that particular type but he may still have another.

but not sure about that.

However, we refused to put our son with severe chronic constipation/encoprisis

on Miralax. Instead we used Magnesium Citrate. it worked wonders. i already

had him on high doses of magnesium but apparently the types that are more easily

absorbed, while i really need one that was not easily absorbed. we first

cleaned out his system with enema's (2-3 nights in a row) and then suppositories

(7-10 were recommended). This was all done under the supervision of our new

ped.

He suggested I start the magnesium citrate with 1/3 of the adult dose. we are

down to much less than that per day with regular bowel movements. we are in the

process of re-potty training him.

the biggest recommendation i have is do not try to potty train until the

constipation is under control. my son would go for DAYS, up to a week without

going before going in his underpants usually after a suppository. I also think

getting yeast under control helped.

littlelief <littlelief@...> wrote:

Hi all,

THANK you to all for this forum & so much support, guidance &

beneficial information.

I have a 3yo NT son with chronic constipation. After doc suggested

Miralax, I couldn't do it - did some research, came across Dana's view

which led to the Miralax group which lead to more research, etc. etc.

(*THANK YOU* Dana for that site/info - it was key in solidifying my

decision to not use Miralax and keep seeking alternatives.)

I became convinced that yeast was an issue for him. To get DH

on-board, I needed 'data' so I made appt with DAN! doc because I knew

she'd be well-versed in the gut issues. She saw the rash on DS's

bottom and pronounced it to be a very typical fungal rash and we

started on S. boulardii while waiting for lab results.

To my astonishment, both the stool test and the organic acids test

were negative for signs of yeast. Yet he still exhibits " yeasty "

behaviors - especially since we've added GF and digestive enzyems to

our diets (are also CF/SF). And he gets the pimply spots on his

bottom, mucus/stringy stools, and my instincts still tell me it's

yeast - but the lab results give every indication that he doesn't have

yeast issue.... is there something else that can cause this?

Here are the (I think) relevant results:

Metametrix Organic Acids:

HIPPURATE - 743 (H)

TRICARBALLYLATE - 4.5 (H)

[all others within the " Compounds of Bacterial or Yeast/fungal origin "

section were within the reference ranges]

and

Genova Comprehensive Stool

no detectable beneficial lactobacillus

no detectable beneficial E. coli

Bifidobacterium - 2+

alpha haemolytic strep (NP) - 1+

gamma haemolytic strep (NP) - 2+

Bacillus species - 1+

mucoid E. coli - 4+

mycology - no growth

I'm currently giving probiotics (rotate Kirkman SuperProBio and

Metagenics UltraFlora), Kirkman Max Spec enzy (1/2 cap with each

meal), Kirkman Phenol Assist (1/2 cap with each meal), ~500-750mg

magnesium, CLO, 2-4 oz aloe vera juice, and a multivitamin. We do

epsom salt/bicarb baths most evenings. Since I'm breastfeeding my 1

yr old still, I have been trying to express breastmilk for my older

son to drink hoping this will help too....

Sorry for the long message - THANK YOU for reading and any

input/suggestions you might have to offer! I desperately want his

bm's to stop hurting him, to be more frequent/regular, and to address

the issue - I just have to pinpoint the issue!

Any help is truly appreciated!

best,

p.s. - Porphyrin test showed moderate mercury - can this be

contributing? (I haven't even begun to think about this problem - it

hit me from out of the blue - he's only had 2 doses of DTaP - no other

vaccines - so it's all on me and my amalgams I guess. arghh I wish I'd

have known.)

[Guest guest]

I don't know alot about this (so take this for what

its worth) but it looks to me like you might need an

anti-bacterial... Mucoid e coli is a bacteria and if

it were my child, I'd think needs to be treated if its

4+. Tricarballylate - I think this is a marker for

salmonella. Hippurate can be from bacteria.

So you may need to address bacterials.

--- littlelief <littlelief@...> wrote:

> Hi all,

> THANK you to all for this forum & so much support,

> guidance &

> beneficial information.

>

> I have a 3yo NT son with chronic constipation. After

> doc suggested

> Miralax, I couldn't do it - did some research, came

> across Dana's view

> which led to the Miralax group which lead to more

> research, etc. etc.

> (*THANK YOU* Dana for that site/info - it was key

> in solidifying my

> decision to not use Miralax and keep seeking

> alternatives.)

>

> I became convinced that yeast was an issue for him.

> To get DH

> on-board, I needed 'data' so I made appt with DAN!

> doc because I knew

> she'd be well-versed in the gut issues. She saw the

> rash on DS's

> bottom and pronounced it to be a very typical fungal

> rash and we

> started on S. boulardii while waiting for lab

> results.

>

> To my astonishment, both the stool test and the

> organic acids test

> were negative for signs of yeast. Yet he still

> exhibits " yeasty "

> behaviors - especially since we've added GF and

> digestive enzyems to

> our diets (are also CF/SF). And he gets the pimply

> spots on his

> bottom, mucus/stringy stools, and my instincts still

> tell me it's

> yeast - but the lab results give every indication

> that he doesn't have

> yeast issue.... is there something else that can

> cause this?

>

> Here are the (I think) relevant results:

>

> Metametrix Organic Acids:

>

> HIPPURATE - 743 (H)

> TRICARBALLYLATE - 4.5 (H)

>

> [all others within the " Compounds of Bacterial or

> Yeast/fungal origin "

> section were within the reference ranges]

>

> and

>

> Genova Comprehensive Stool

>

> no detectable beneficial lactobacillus

> no detectable beneficial E. coli

> Bifidobacterium - 2+

> alpha haemolytic strep (NP) - 1+

> gamma haemolytic strep (NP) - 2+

> Bacillus species - 1+

> mucoid E. coli - 4+

> mycology - no growth

>

> I'm currently giving probiotics (rotate Kirkman

> SuperProBio and

> Metagenics UltraFlora), Kirkman Max Spec enzy (1/2

> cap with each

> meal), Kirkman Phenol Assist (1/2 cap with each

> meal), ~500-750mg

> magnesium, CLO, 2-4 oz aloe vera juice, and a

> multivitamin. We do

> epsom salt/bicarb baths most evenings. Since I'm

> breastfeeding my 1

> yr old still, I have been trying to express

> breastmilk for my older

> son to drink hoping this will help too....

>

> Sorry for the long message - THANK YOU for reading

> and any

> input/suggestions you might have to offer! I

> desperately want his

> bm's to stop hurting him, to be more

> frequent/regular, and to address

> the issue - I just have to pinpoint the issue!

>

> Any help is truly appreciated!

>

> best,

>

>

> p.s. - Porphyrin test showed moderate mercury - can

> this be

> contributing? (I haven't even begun to think about

> this problem - it

> hit me from out of the blue - he's only had 2 doses

> of DTaP - no other

> vaccines - so it's all on me and my amalgams I

> guess. arghh I wish I'd

> have known.)

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

> I have a 3yo NT son with chronic constipation.

Ideas here

http://www.danasview.net/constip.htm

> (*THANK YOU* Dana for that site/info - it was key in solidifying my

> decision to not use Miralax and keep seeking alternatives.)

Yes, Miralax can be nasty. Best to determine and address the

underlying cause.

http://www.danasview.net/miralax.htm

> I became convinced that yeast was an issue for him.

Yeast can be very constipating. I used biotin with magnesium, and

GSE, to eliminate that problem at my house.

> To my astonishment, both the stool test and the organic acids test

> were negative for signs of yeast. Yet he still exhibits " yeasty "

> behaviors -

Well, two things. First, at my house, my kids would get yeast in the

brain/head, which I don't think would show up on any tests. Second,

" yeasty behaviors " can be signs of other things also.

>>especially since we've added GF and digestive enzyems to

> our diets (are also CF/SF).

Do you use a lot of rice? Rice was highly constipating at my house.

Sometimes adding magnesium can help. I had to remove rice entirely.

>> And he gets the pimply spots on his

> bottom,

If they look like this, try adding lysine

http://www.danasview.net/3_rash.jpg

>>mucus/stringy stools,

This meant yeast.

>>and my instincts still tell me it's

> yeast - but the lab results give every indication that he doesn't have

> yeast issue.... is there something else that can cause this?

First, trust your instincts over the test results. Tests are only

about 80% accurate.

> alpha haemolytic strep (NP) - 1+

> gamma haemolytic strep (NP) - 2+

Try giving OLE.

>>CLO,

EFAs were highly constipating at my house until I gave them with

magnesium and mito cocktail. And, I had to give a LOT of magnesium,

more than 1000mg per day. Here is my mito page

http://www.danasview.net/mar05.htm

> p.s. - Porphyrin test showed moderate mercury - can this be

> contributing?

Possibly. I used ALA for chelation, which worked very well here.

Dana

[Guest guest]

**THANK YOU** Dana, Denice & Amy for advice and comment.

I will work on the bacteria and yeast. It's my impression that I

should only add one thing in at a time (to observe reaction) so I'm in

a bit of quandry about what to start first. Seems like I should do

yeast control first so I will have his yeast protocol worked out in

case it flares up while going after bacteria... Does this seem

reasonable or should I go for the bacteria since that's what

definitely cultured out of his stool?...

Also, for chelation - it's my impression that should wait until he's

at least having regular bowel movements and seems otherwise in good

health? But, will I ever get the bowels going well if the mercury is

causing problems?

thanks again!

> > I became convinced that yeast was an issue for him.

>

>

> Yeast can be very constipating. I used biotin with magnesium, and

> GSE, to eliminate that problem at my house.

>

>

> >>mucus/stringy stools,

>

> This meant yeast.

>

> > and my instincts still tell me it's yeast - but the

> > lab results give every indication that he doesn't have

> > yeast issue.... is there something else that can cause this?

>

>

> First, trust your instincts over the test results. Tests are only

> about 80% accurate.

>

>

> > alpha haemolytic strep (NP) - 1+

> > gamma haemolytic strep (NP) - 2+

>

>

> Try giving OLE.

>

>

> >>CLO,

>

>

> EFAs were highly constipating at my house until I gave them with

> magnesium and mito cocktail. And, I had to give a LOT of magnesium,

> more than 1000mg per day. Here is my mito page

>

> http://www.danasview.net/mar05.htm

>

>

> > p.s. - Porphyrin test showed moderate mercury - can this be

> > contributing?

>

>

> Possibly. I used ALA for chelation, which worked very well here.

>

> Dana

>

[Guest guest]

> I will work on the bacteria and yeast. It's my impression that I

> should only add one thing in at a time (to observe reaction) so I'm in

> a bit of quandry about what to start first. Seems like I should do

> yeast control first so I will have his yeast protocol worked out in

> case it flares up while going after bacteria... Does this seem

> reasonable or should I go for the bacteria since that's what

> definitely cultured out of his stool?...

Yeast first. But you can start the anti-bacterials within a few days

of the yeast control, depending on if your child does well with the

yeast control.

> Also, for chelation - it's my impression that should wait until he's

> at least having regular bowel movements and seems otherwise in good

> health?

I would try to get his issues " reasonably under control " . Then start

chelating.

>>But, will I ever get the bowels going well if the mercury is

> causing problems?

For some kids, no, the metals need to come out before the gut is

healed. That is why I recommend aiming for " reasonably under

control " . Which chelator will you be using?

Dana