Re: Fitting in... at what cost

February 16, 2010

My goal with my 12 is to try and teach him basic hygene and to not offend

people- using good word choice, respecting other's personal space, trying to put

his thoughts into words. I also try to guide his choices in clothes so he " fits

in " but he can wear whatever he owns. I have no desire to change who he is but

I would like other people to get a chance to know him and love him too.

Becky

--- Original Message ---

From: " Caitlin " <caitlinwray@...>

Sent:Tue 2/16/10 8:17 am

Subj:( ) Fitting in... at what cost

I'm just wondering what people's perspectives are on the issue of

'fitting in'. I've been reading a lot of articles by aspies, and many

seem to feel that forcing them to fit in or trying to 'cure them' is the

wrong approach. Do you worry that 'training' your Aspie to fit in will

fundamentally change who they are meant to be, or are you confident that

training them to fit in is the best thing for them in the long run?

This is a piece of the puzzle that I am still perplexed by... how far do

you go with treatments before you start erasing the individual and not

just the disorder...

Caitlin

Embracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome-to-normal.com

<http://www.welcome-to-normal.com>

February 16, 2010

Going by the past 21 yrs; believe me, there is no " forcing " them

to fit in, my daughter ALWAYS went to the beat of her own drummer,

she'd rather go without friends than do what all of them were doing

to fit in if she deemed it wrong.

However, I feel that teaching them early social behaviors is very

helpful at helping them learn to cope with the enormity of their

incoming feelings and stimuli.

Without learning the coping skills (social skills) to help them cope

with their enormous anxiety and meltdowns, I think they'd be less

able to be their true selves, their true genius, truthfullness,

loyalty, honesty, all that is good. I think it freed my daughter

to learn to control her anxiety and meltdowns, to know her disorder,

and accept it. We've been thru tremendous stress and pain to get

to this point believe me. And this was late diagnosis, I think

early is better!! Jo

February 16, 2010

Hi Caitlin,

For us,,,,we stopped trying to "therapy-him" to normalcy after a few years. We struggled, read, cried, called places.....doctors.......ugh. We fought with ourselves over "how" he was and was doing.....how much we should push him........we fought over how our families treated us and acted around us,,,,,,,,,,,,darnit....we tried to make him better.

Then,,,we just didn't give a shit. Sorry for the expression. Our familiy was suffering.....all of us. But,,,,,,we suddenly "saw" that our son crying every morning and needing silence.....or coming home and REQUIRING time alone......or whatever it was....well.....we finally stopped it all.

We pulled him out of public school and he did an online school for 2 years. Meds were stopped. At the time, he took stuff for ADHD issues.

Anyway,,,we took Ian for who he was. Quirky,,,,,,,,nice,,,,,,,,,,innocent as all getup,,,,,,, sure, a bit odd,,,,,,,,passionate for what he was in to..,,,,,,,,,a good person.,,,,smart.

We don't see therapists or anything like that, that will make him "become" something different. We see a doc for his OCD now, but only as a "lets see how things are going".

If needed, we'd do it more often.

He decided to go back to school for 8th grade. It's been wonderful. He fits....in his way. Kids aren't mean like they were in elementary school....thank God. He attends a daily social group with about 10 other kids...........and they chat and play games. It's not a "learning how to be" group, though.

He's different, now.

Is it because we stopped trying to "get him help"? I don't know. It may be because he's aged......or a combination of many things.I don't know if I got my "opinion" out right. I read your post and had to respond.

I think there is a definite need to have them learn "essential" things. But,,,,,,there are so many things that aren't necessary.......really. I wish I had learned to just let him be himself earlier and advocating for that, instead of looking to find the right doc and wondering if he would ever "LOOK ME IN THE EYES" or "STOP BEING SO OBSESSED ABOUT WHATEVER HE WAS OBSESSED ABOUT AT THE TIME"..........

Sorry for the ramble.

It really is simple. Just treat others kindly and with respect.

Robin

From: Caitlin <caitlinwray@...>Subject: ( ) Fitting in... at what cost Date: Monday, February 15, 2010, 11:35 PM

I'm just wondering what people's perspectives are on the issue of 'fitting in'. I've been reading a lot of articles by aspies, and many seem to feel that forcing them to fit in or trying to 'cure them' is the wrong approach. Do you worry that 'training' your Aspie to fit in will fundamentally change who they are meant to be, or are you confident that training them to fit in is the best thing for them in the long run?

This is a piece of the puzzle that I am still perplexed by... how far do you go with treatments before you start erasing the individual and not just the disorder...

CaitlinEmbracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome- to-normal. com

February 16, 2010

I couldn’t resist joining in on this

one either…

Having read AS self-help books ad nauseum

looking for tips on handling day to day issues, I have been angered and

frustrated that the goal of so many of these books is to make it so that the

child can “fit in” at school and “appear” normal. Teaching cues, prompts, stilted

conversation pieces etc to me are not gaining anything for anyone – the AS’

or the NT’s they are supposed to interact with. Why should the goal be to “fit in”

at school? Don’t get me

wrong, I ache for seeing the social struggles of DD and battle with the rigid

thinking and mega-logical approach to life etc and mourn for my “lost

child” as per the other thread on the forum this week. But making them conform to other

children’s social norms seems fake and simply for the benefit of the

school system so they are less of a problem!

Since these kids often relate soooo much

better to adults and their thinking, language and specialist subjects are often

those of more mature people than their calendar age, why not let them practise

fitting into the adult world instead?

Fitting in at school is just that – so the whole focus of their

young/adolescent life is to fit into a world they will never need to fit into

again once they are adults… My

DD has lots of adult friends in her world and very very few her own age, the

only person that bothers is me!!!!! At no other point in her life in the

future will she spend 8 hours a day in a room with 30 people all exactly her

own age.

My goal with DD is to give her the skills she

needs to function in the world around her to the fullest of her potential. If she wants to become a college

professor then she is going to have to set that as her goal and I will do my

best to help her attain it. However

if she wants to have kids and a husband etc etc then there are a lot of skills

I can help her with and those are my focus at a day to day level. If fitting in

at school was to become her goal then I can help her work towards that, but

unless she can see the need and has the desire to I cannot see the point. Our kids rarely “get” the

petty playground squabbles, boy/girl friend bickering, “best”

friend fallouts and other juvenile interactions – they are usually

emotionally younger than their peers and more advanced than them in their

logic/reasoning abilities so why spend all that effort trying to “fit in”

with something that is juvenile to their logic and incomprehensible to their

emotions?

Hope this doesn’t offend anyone, that is not my intention at all.

a

-----Original

Message-----

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of and/or Robin Lemke

Sent: 16 February 2010 20:34

To:

Subject: Re: ( )

Fitting in... at what cost

Hi Caitlin,

For us,,,,we stopped trying to

" therapy-him " to normalcy after a few years. We struggled,

read, cried, called places.....doctors.......ugh. We fought with

ourselves over " how " he was and was doing.....how much we should

push him........we fought over how our families treated us and

acted around us,,,,,,,,,,,,darnit....we tried to make him

better.

Then,,,we just didn't give a shit. Sorry for the expression.

Our familiy was suffering.....all of us. But,,,,,,we suddenly

" saw " that our son crying every morning and needing silence.....or

coming home and REQUIRING time alone......or whatever it was....well.....we

finally stopped it all.

We pulled him out of public school and he did an

online school for 2 years. Meds were stopped. At the time, he

took stuff for ADHD issues.

Anyway,,,we took Ian for who he was. Quirky,,,,,,,,nice,,,,,,,,,,innocent

as all getup,,,,,,, sure, a bit odd,,,,,,,,passionate for what he was in

to..,,,,,,,,,a good person.,,,,smart.

We don't see therapists or anything like that, that will make him

" become " something different. We see a doc for his OCD now,

but only as a " lets see how things are going " .

If needed, we'd do it more often.

He decided to go back to school for 8th grade.

It's been wonderful. He fits....in his way.

Kids aren't mean like they were in elementary school....thank God. He

attends a daily social group with about 10 other kids...........and they

chat and play games. It's not a " learning how to be " group,

though.

He's different, now.

Is it because we stopped trying to " get him

help " ? I don't know. It may be because he's aged......or a

combination of many things.

I don't know if I got my " opinion " out right. I read your

post and had to respond.

I think there is a definite need to have them learn " essential "

things. But,,,,,,there are so many things that aren't necessary.......really.

I wish I had learned to just let him be himself earlier and advocating for

that, instead of looking to find the right doc and wondering if he would ever

" LOOK ME IN THE EYES " or " STOP BEING SO OBSESSED ABOUT

WHATEVER HE WAS OBSESSED ABOUT AT THE TIME " ..........

Sorry for the ramble.

It really is simple. Just treat others kindly and

with respect.

Robin

From: Caitlin <caitlinwray (DOT) ca>

Subject: ( ) Fitting in... at what cost

Date: Monday, February 15, 2010, 11:35 PM

I'm just wondering what people's perspectives are on

the issue of 'fitting in'. I've been reading a lot of articles by aspies, and

many seem to feel that forcing them to fit in or trying to 'cure them' is the

wrong approach. Do you worry that 'training' your Aspie to fit in will

fundamentally change who they are meant to be, or are you confident that

training them to fit in is the best thing for them in the long run?

This is a piece of the puzzle that I am still

perplexed by... how far do you go with treatments before you start erasing

the individual and not just the disorder...

Caitlin

Embracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome-

to-normal. com

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2690 - Release Date: 02/15/10 19:35:00

February 16, 2010

This makes sense to me, this reflects where I thought I was in terms of understanding the road ahead. But I've been reading a lot of articles by Aspies that seem to contradict this position somewhat... insofar as they refer to trying to change them or make them fit in, as a sort of death wish for who they really are. They also refer to "doggie training" as detrimental and I'm wondering if that's how they interpret social skills training?

My son is set to start that training in the fall when he's 7. Has anyone ever seen social training for their child as 'doggie training' or been uncomfortable with it in any other way?

CaitlinEmbracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome-to-normal.com

>> Going by the past 21 yrs; believe me, there is no "forcing" them> to fit in, my daughter ALWAYS went to the beat of her own drummer,> she'd rather go without friends than do what all of them were doing> to fit in if she deemed it wrong.> > However, I feel that teaching them early social behaviors is very> helpful at helping them learn to cope with the enormity of their> incoming feelings and stimuli. > > Without learning the coping skills (social skills) to help them cope> with their enormous anxiety and meltdowns, I think they'd be less> able to be their true selves, their true genius, truthfullness,> loyalty, honesty, all that is good. I think it freed my daughter> to learn to control her anxiety and meltdowns, to know her disorder,> and accept it. We've been thru tremendous stress and pain to get> to this point believe me. And this was late diagnosis, I think> early is better!! Jo>

February 16, 2010

Thank you Robin, that was the farthest thing from a ramble. That mirrors what

I've been reading from the Aspie community.... and to some extent how I felt

about my son before he was diagnosed. Before he had a label that meant

'disorder', I advocated strongly for him to be accepted for who he was. Then,

when we were sitting in the doctor's office and she diagnosed him and gave us

the " good news " that he could be " trained out of it " , I thought " thank

goodness! " . Now I am having second thoughts about my reaction. Why would I

advocate for him to be accepted before he was labeled, but advocate for him to

change after?

On the other hand, I completely agree that there are basic skills that really

must be learned. I guess I am anxious about having to navigate which is which in

the coming years...

PS. " Quirky, nice, innocent as all getup, sure, a bit odd,passionate for what he

was in to,a good person, smart. " This is exactly how I would describe my Simon

>

> From: Caitlin <caitlinwray@...>

> Subject: ( ) Fitting in... at what cost

>

> Date: Monday, February 15, 2010, 11:35 PM

>

> Â

>

> I'm just wondering what people's perspectives are on the issue of 'fitting

in'. I've been reading a lot of articles by aspies, and many seem to feel that

forcing them to fit in or trying to 'cure them' is the wrong approach. Do you

worry that 'training' your Aspie to fit in will fundamentally change who they

are meant to be, or are you confident that training them to fit in is the best

thing for them in the long run?

> This is a piece of the puzzle that I am still perplexed by... how far do you

go with treatments before you start erasing the individual and not just the

disorder...

> Caitlin

> Embracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome- to-normal. com

>

February 16, 2010

Personally, my two aspies would be recluses and never come out of their rooms EVER if we didn't force them in to social situations. Our kids have had socialization training (some all from me and utilizing my daycare children---with parent's permission----we learned how to play games, communicate appropriately, share.........modeling, and talking it all out.). These children (whom become teens and adults.......) learn and then DO IT (typically---sometimes it takes over and over and over again of teaching the skill but if it is not taught, they don't 'know' how to do it). My 8 year old does NOT know you want a hug, will not come and give you one when sad unless you ask, etc.; STILL doesn't cross his mind. HE HAD NO FEELINGS until taught them; for the FIRST TIME (SERIOUSLY!) last week, we cried together because he said that he was being left out by the other kids; I CRIED BECAUSE I / WE NEVER KNEW HE CARED---------he FINALLY does care!!!! So, as intelligent and well educated as my spouse and I are, we often are 'dumb' and learning as we go all the time! I have a 16 year old, and still cry (like last week!). But, it is usually with the 'ah-ha' moments.

By the way, the 'left out' is referring to games (board games) so we have worked on it every single day for about 30 minutes, then including his brother or brothers and including him. He was leaving himself OUT to because if they would not play the game he chose, he wouldn't play. So, we are working (and do have services via a waiver and that is all for him right now---all in the house so we dont have to leave home) on our own with him to 'fix' these things. To us, they are REAL LIFE THINGS. We are NOT THE 'looking for a cure' parents; we just want our children to be themselves but not at their own expense!

Same 8 year old is the best cleaner in the house (16 year old aspies----I would rather do the cleaning myself!); we utilize each where they are and have learned what buttons to push and focus on.........actually, it is like 'don't sweat the little stuff' and our list if much different than parents of N.T.'s but it is like that! There are things one would not let their N.T. child do at say our aspies' son's age but our son is not N.T. My 8 year old typically acts 8 so we are working with him to act 8 / fit in with peers that are 8; our 16 year old is literally like an adult and then, may be a literal 2-5 year old child so we have much different expectations for him.

NEVER GIVE UP, pray, keep on this group which is something I was very active in for a while and THIS GROUP SAVED OUR FAMILY (SERIOUSLY!). I have read (we have read), gone to seminars, and found our own voice in this, but mostly LEARNED LEARNED LEARNED and use or try what we have learned. We are NOT spending money on treatments anymore (we had one child whom REQUIRED vision therapy; did do brief sensory training and they trained us and we do it at home and our children do things to meet their own sensory needs too; have had lots of therapy but have it in our waivers so don't have to anymore!; support groups, etc.). We do see a psychiatrist about every 3 months and medicate the anxiety and Adhd proponents of Aspergers; that is ALL at this time. We have also spent over $10,000 on a lawyer for school rights before quitting the fight and just do all we can to help our kids on our own as it's crazy at school!!!!! So, we have tried a lot of things and some were necessary; anything extremely controversal, research, you deside, if in your budget, or, like us, try it a few days and if it works for your child, do it, doesn't, move on (like gluten free diet---we tried it, didn't notice any differences so we don't do it------other parents have even SHOWED me the difference, so I know it works for some, and that is great but it didn't for us so we don't keep doing it------). There are a lot of SCAMS OUT THERE TOO so just be careful!!!!!

Good luck, and hope that helped.

Ruthie Dolezal

From: caitlinwray@...Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 05:35:20 +0000Subject: ( ) Fitting in... at what cost

I'm just wondering what people's perspectives are on the issue of 'fitting in'. I've been reading a lot of articles by aspies, and many seem to feel that forcing them to fit in or trying to 'cure them' is the wrong approach. Do you worry that 'training' your Aspie to fit in will fundamentally change who they are meant to be, or are you confident that training them to fit in is the best thing for them in the long run?

This is a piece of the puzzle that I am still perplexed by... how far do you go with treatments before you start erasing the individual and not just the disorder...

CaitlinEmbracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome-to-normal.com

February 16, 2010

I feel like we've tried everything we knew to do and now that my daughter is 14

I think it's time to quit trying to force her to " fit it " . My husband is an

extremely social, life of the party type and he always felt if we pushed her to

be more social she would eventually just fit it. Unfortunately, with aspergers

it just doesn't work that way.

We had her in preschool from the age of 2, summer day camps every year, social

skills groups, drama classes, public school, private schools, occupational

therapy, speech therapy...the list goes on and on. In all honesty, I'm not sure

the therapies helped her at all. She was resistant to change and as a result,

for example,is still a toe walker at 14. (She was dx in 5th grade)

At some point around 6th grade she realized the only way to make girl friends

would be to pretend to be somebody different. She consciously made the choice

not to be a fake person. We discussed this at length and I decided it was time I

stopped trying to mold her into somebody different too. She's wonderful just the

way she is.

>

> I'm just wondering what people's perspectives are on the issue of

> 'fitting in'. I've been reading a lot of articles by aspies, and many

> seem to feel that forcing them to fit in or trying to 'cure them' is the

> wrong approach. Do you worry that 'training' your Aspie to fit in will

> fundamentally change who they are meant to be, or are you confident that

> training them to fit in is the best thing for them in the long run?

>

> This is a piece of the puzzle that I am still perplexed by... how far do

> you go with treatments before you start erasing the individual and not

> just the disorder...

>

> Caitlin

> Embracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome-to-normal.com

> <http://www.welcome-to-normal.com>

>

February 17, 2010

Hi a,I agree with you approach to the problem of fitting in. It has been very painful to my daugther and to me to try to fit in a world that does not show any mercy on those who are different.My girl was called yesterday retarded by another girl at the Boys and Girl club, she did not tell the staff but she called me to pick her up. At that time my girl has an astma attack and got a small seizure caused by the stress...the price she is paying to fit in is too high.She told me she was going to ditch in her friends, and she does not want friends anymore....You are right, the price too fit in is too high.My girl does socializing with other children in the internet, so her friends are going to be virtual friends for now. I know there is a risk of having virtual friends, so I perform a background check to make sure they are not predators.The girl that called her retarded does not know my girl play clarinet and piano and that my girl is a computer wizard and that in spite of her missing schools several time a year because of her illness she is passing the grade,As you mention my girl does better related to grown up, so you do make a point on that. ( ) Fitting in... at what cost @-groups.-comDate: Monday, February 15, 2010, 11:35 PM I'm just wondering what people's perspectives are on the issue of'fitting in'. I've been reading a lot of articles by aspies, and manyseem to feel that forcing them to fit in or trying to 'cure them' is thewrong approach. Do you worry that 'training' your Aspie to fit in willfundamentally change who they are meant to be, or are you confident thattraining them to fit in is the best thing for them in the long run?This is a piece of the puzzle that I am still perplexed by... how far doyou go with treatments before you start erasing the individual and notjust the disorder...CaitlinEmbracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome-<http://www.welcome-to-normal.com/> to-normal. com No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2690 - Release Date: 02/15/1019:35:00

February 17, 2010

Thanks for your reply.

I always feel this "urge" to get my point across when I read certain posts.....,.and in my head, it sounds so great..,.....ha ha.

Then,,,,,when I re-read what I post, I freak out, cause I rarely get it out the way I heard it in my noggin.

Ha.

This is such a specific-to-family-and-child topic. I think it has a lot to do with the level our kids are at, to begin with, ya know?

I think of my other kiddo's. One tries everything.......finishes it and moves on. But,,,,the whole time she's trying it (Musical, Tae Kwon Do, Soccer, etc) she's freaking out, but doesn't want to quit. I'd never have to force (Nudge) her to try things. She just does them.

One of my sons loves to run around and ride his bike and swim all summer, but if someone paid me a million dollars to get him to play baseball or soccer for 2 months, I honestly couldn't get it done. He could care a less about being involved. He just wants to get out and play. sigh.

So,,,,,I think whether our kids have issues or not......it depends on how they react to change and "things" in general. Some kids with AS are easy going......some struggle and fight change for everything that it is. Some could be left for a week alone in their home and they'd survive and do just fine (Ian could do this).....and others will need to be taught life skills.

Ah.,....I've rambled again.

Better stop.

It really is simple. Just treat others kindly and with respect.

Robin

From: Caitlin <caitlinwray@...>Subject: Re: ( ) Fitting in... at what cost Date: Tuesday, February 16, 2010, 4:47 PM

Thank you Robin, that was the farthest thing from a ramble. That mirrors what I've been reading from the Aspie community... . and to some extent how I felt about my son before he was diagnosed. Before he had a label that meant 'disorder', I advocated strongly for him to be accepted for who he was. Then, when we were sitting in the doctor's office and she diagnosed him and gave us the "good news" that he could be "trained out of it", I thought "thank goodness!". Now I am having second thoughts about my reaction. Why would I advocate for him to be accepted before he was labeled, but advocate for him to change after?On the other hand, I completely agree that there are basic skills that really must be learned. I guess I am anxious about having to navigate which is which in the coming years...PS. "Quirky, nice, innocent as all getup, sure, a bit odd,passionate for what he was in to,a good person, smart." This is exactly how I would

describe my Simon > > > From: Caitlin <caitlinwray@ ...>> Subject: ( ) Fitting in... at what cost> > Date: Monday, February 15, 2010, 11:35 PM> > > Ã‚ > > > > > I'm just wondering what people's perspectives are on the issue of 'fitting in'. I've been reading a lot of articles by aspies, and many seem to feel that forcing them to fit in or trying to 'cure them' is the wrong approach. Do you worry that 'training' your Aspie to fit in will fundamentally change who they are meant to be, or are you confident

that training them to fit in is the best thing for them in the long run?> This is a piece of the puzzle that I am still perplexed by... how far do you go with treatments before you start erasing the individual and not just the disorder...> Caitlin> Embracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome- to-normal. com>

February 17, 2010

Hi a,

There was nothing in your words but truth, as far as I'm concerned. You said it better than I could have.

Acceptance of where "your" child is at, is what it seems to be about. And we're all at different "at's"..........ya know?

It really is simple. Just treat others kindly and with respect.

Robin

From: Caitlin <caitlinwray@ .ca>Subject: ( ) Fitting in... at what cost Date: Monday, February 15, 2010, 11:35 PM

I'm just wondering what people's perspectives are on the issue of 'fitting in'. I've been reading a lot of articles by aspies, and many seem to feel that forcing them to fit in or trying to 'cure them' is the wrong approach. Do you worry that 'training' your Aspie to fit in will fundamentally change who they are meant to be, or are you confident that training them to fit in is the best thing for them in the long run?

This is a piece of the puzzle that I am still perplexed by... how far do you go with treatments before you start erasing the individual and not just the disorder...

CaitlinEmbracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome- to-normal. com

No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2690 - Release Date: 02/15/10 19:35:00

February 17, 2010

Oh, how terrible.

Hugs to you and your daughter.

You are doing the right thing, I feel. Let her be and let her do what makes her happy. Who are we to say, right?

Are you going to call the Boys and Girls CLub and let them know what happened? I hope so.....cause that darned kid will probably do it again.

It really is simple. Just treat others kindly and with respect.

RobinFrom: Caitlin <caitlinwray@ -.ca>Subject: ( ) Fitting in... at what cost @ -groups. -comDate: Monday, February 15, 2010, 11:35 PM I'm just wondering what people's perspectives are on the issue

of'fitting in'. I've been reading a lot of articles by aspies, and manyseem to feel that forcing them to fit in or trying to 'cure them' is thewrong approach. Do you worry that 'training' your Aspie to fit in willfundamentally change who they are meant to be, or are you confident thattraining them to fit in is the best thing for them in the long run?This is a piece of the puzzle that I am still perplexed by... how far doyou go with treatments before you start erasing the individual and notjust the disorder...CaitlinEmbracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome-<http://www.welcome- to-normal. com/> to-normal. com No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2690 - Release Date: 02/15/1019:35:00

February 17, 2010

I think we have to work on helping our children be kind, repectful polite and

independent individuals. What do you think of these

goals?

My daughter (12 years old) will discount other kids interests (as boring). This

I consider rude. She doesn't have to be someone she isn't but she has to be

respectful of others ( show a little interest).

My daughter will avoid parties but wants her cousins to come to

her party. I am trying to teach her that she doesn't have to

go to all the parties in our extended family but she better

show up to the kids she wants to see at her birthday. She understands

this now.

My daughter prefers to be totally dependent on me to help

her organize her belongs and hobbies. I certainly will help

as long as she keeps me company. It is rude that she not only

wants my help but wants to go watch TV while I work away.

Noone is going to put up with that as a friend.

I am so happy that some of her extreme anxiety and obsessiveness

is finally under control better with medication.

What do you think of this perspective on AS parenting?

Pam

>

> I'm just wondering what people's perspectives are on the issue of

> 'fitting in'. I've been reading a lot of articles by aspies, and many

> seem to feel that forcing them to fit in or trying to 'cure them' is the

> wrong approach. Do you worry that 'training' your Aspie to fit in will

> fundamentally change who they are meant to be, or are you confident that

> training them to fit in is the best thing for them in the long run?

>

> This is a piece of the puzzle that I am still perplexed by... how far do

> you go with treatments before you start erasing the individual and not

> just the disorder...

>

> Caitlin

> Embracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome-to-normal.com

> <http://www.welcome-to-normal.com>

>

February 17, 2010

a:

I loved what you wrote. I was actually talking to Zak

about this issue this morning. I remember saying something like “if

there were no schools we wouldn’t have to “diagnose”

Aspergers as being something different.” I explained to him about

Max and I (his brother), we process things in one way and Zak processes

information in another way. And the way Zak processes is not something

that most teachers are either trained in or want to work with.

If we took schools out of the equation how much easier our

children’s lives are. I have never seen an adult have a problem

with Zak or treat him differently. In fact adults say what wonderful manners he

has and how intelligent and funny he is to be around.

So I think I’ll keep on home schooling and praying for the

day schools as we know them are abolished.

Namaste

Dawn in Tucson

From:

[mailto: ] On

Behalf Of a

Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 3:16 PM

Subject: RE: ( ) Fitting in... at what cost

I

couldn’t resist joining in on this one either…

Having

read AS self-help books ad nauseum looking for tips on handling day to day

issues, I have been angered and frustrated that the goal of so many of these

books is to make it so that the child can “fit in” at school and

“appear” normal. Teaching cues, prompts, stilted conversation

pieces etc to me are not gaining anything for anyone – the AS’ or

the NT’s they are supposed to interact with. Why should the goal be

to “fit in” at school? Don’t get me wrong, I ache for

seeing the social struggles of DD and battle with the rigid thinking and

mega-logical approach to life etc and mourn for my “lost child” as

per the other thread on the forum this week. But making them conform to other

children’s social norms seems fake and simply for the benefit of the

school system so they are less of a problem!

Since

these kids often relate soooo much better to adults and their thinking,

language and specialist subjects are often those of more mature people than their

calendar age, why not let them practise fitting into the adult world

instead? Fitting in at school is just that – so the whole focus of

their young/adolescent life is to fit into a world they will never need to fit

into again once they are adults… My DD has lots of adult friends in

her world and very very few her own age, the only person that bothers is

me!!!!! At no other point in her life in the future will she spend 8

hours a day in a room with 30 people all exactly her own age.

My goal

with DD is to give her the skills she needs to function in the world around her

to the fullest of her potential. If she wants to become a college

professor then she is going to have to set that as her goal and I will do my

best to help her attain it. However if she wants to have kids and a

husband etc etc then there are a lot of skills I can help her with and those

are my focus at a day to day level. If fitting in at school was to become her

goal then I can help her work towards that, but unless she can see the need and

has the desire to I cannot see the point. Our kids rarely

“get” the petty playground squabbles, boy/girl friend bickering,

“best” friend fallouts and other juvenile interactions – they

are usually emotionally younger than their peers and more advanced than them in

their logic/reasoning abilities so why spend all that effort trying to

“fit in” with something that is juvenile to their logic and

incomprehensible to their emotions?

Hope this

doesn’t offend anyone, that is not my intention

at all.

a

-----Original

Message-----

From: [mailto: ]

On Behalf Of and/or Robin Lemke

Sent: 16 February 2010 20:34

Subject: Re: ( ) Fitting in... at what cost

Hi

Caitlin,

For

us,,,,we stopped trying to " therapy-him " to normalcy after a few

years. We struggled, read, cried, called places.....doctors.......ugh.

We fought with ourselves over " how " he was and was doing.....how

much we should push him........we fought over how our

families treated us and acted around us,,,,,,,,,,,,darnit....we

tried to make him better.

Then,,,we just didn't give a shit. Sorry for the expression.

Our familiy was suffering.....all of us. But,,,,,,we suddenly

" saw " that our son crying every morning and needing silence.....or

coming home and REQUIRING time alone......or whatever it was....well.....we

finally stopped it all.

We

pulled him out of public school and he did an online school for 2

years. Meds were stopped. At the time, he took stuff for ADHD

issues.

Anyway,,,we took Ian for who he was. Quirky,,,,,,,,nice,,,,,,,,,,innocent

as all getup,,,,,,, sure, a bit odd,,,,,,,,passionate for what he was in

to..,,,,,,,,,a good person.,,,,smart.

We don't see therapists or anything like that, that will make him

" become " something different. We see a doc for his OCD now,

but only as a " lets see how things are going " .

If

needed, we'd do it more often.

He

decided to go back to school for 8th grade. It's been wonderful.

He fits....in his way.

Kids aren't mean like they were in elementary school....thank God. He

attends a daily social group with about 10 other kids...........and they chat

and play games. It's not a " learning how to be " group, though.

He's

different, now.

Is

it because we stopped trying to " get him help " ? I don't

know. It may be because he's aged......or a combination of many things.

I don't know if I got my " opinion " out right. I read your

post and had to respond.

I think there is a definite need to have them learn " essential "

things. But,,,,,,there are so many things that aren't necessary.......really.

I wish I had learned to just let him be himself earlier and advocating for that,

instead of looking to find the right doc and wondering if he would ever

" LOOK ME IN THE EYES " or " STOP BEING SO OBSESSED ABOUT

WHATEVER HE WAS OBSESSED ABOUT AT THE TIME " ..........

Sorry

for the ramble.

It

really is

simple.

Just treat others kindly and with respect.

Robin

From: Caitlin <caitlinwray@...>

Subject: ( ) Fitting in... at what cost

Date: Monday, February 15, 2010, 11:35 PM

I'm

just wondering what people's perspectives are on the issue of 'fitting in'.

I've been reading a lot of articles by aspies, and many seem to feel that

forcing them to fit in or trying to 'cure them' is the wrong approach. Do you

worry that 'training' your Aspie to fit in will fundamentally change who they

are meant to be, or are you confident that training them to fit in is the

best thing for them in the long run?

This

is a piece of the puzzle that I am still perplexed by... how far do you go

with treatments before you start erasing the individual and not just the

disorder...

Caitlin

Embracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome-

to-normal. com

No virus

found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2690 - Release Date: 02/15/10

19:35:00

February 17, 2010

"Doggie training" probably refers to "ABA" therapy or some similar type of therapy. I don't think these people in general have a clue. They will be online bitching and moaning that the world is mean to them in 20 years still. Rules/standards are made just to make them miserable and after all, why doesn't everyone else in the world change to accommodate their specific needs? I don't know the answer to that. Maybe everyone in the world is busy. They need to get off their whine boxes.

You can help your child learn how to communicate and socialize or you can wait around for them to grow up and write snotty things about "NT" people online someday as their life's work. As for social skill lessons - you have to find what fits your child and his/her specific needs. What may be ridiculous to one child may work great for another. But "social skills" are not a one-size fits all kind of thing. There are many different social skill areas and problems one can have. So you want to tailor the lessons to the need of the child for the best help, IMO.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) Re: Fitting in... at what cost

This makes sense to me, this reflects where I thought I was in terms of understanding the road ahead. But I've been reading a lot of articles by Aspies that seem to contradict this position somewhat... insofar as they refer to trying to change them or make them fit in, as a sort of death wish for who they really are. They also refer to "doggie training" as detrimental and I'm wondering if that's how they interpret social skills training?

My son is set to start that training in the fall when he's 7. Has anyone ever seen social training for their child as 'doggie training' or been uncomfortable with it in any other way?

Caitlin

Embracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome-to-normal.com

>

> Going by the past 21 yrs; believe me, there is no "forcing" them

> to fit in, my daughter ALWAYS went to the beat of her own drummer,

> she'd rather go without friends than do what all of them were doing

> to fit in if she deemed it wrong.

>

> However, I feel that teaching them early social behaviors is very

> helpful at helping them learn to cope with the enormity of their

> incoming feelings and stimuli.

>

> Without learning the coping skills (social skills) to help them cope

> with their enormous anxiety and meltdowns, I think they'd be less

> able to be their true selves, their true genius, truthfullness,

> loyalty, honesty, all that is good. I think it freed my daughter

> to learn to control her anxiety and meltdowns, to know her disorder,

> and accept it. We've b

een thru tremendous stress and pain to get

> to this point believe me. And this was late diagnosis, I think

> early is better!! Jo

>

February 17, 2010

Chiming in. My DD referred to the NTs as " Cookie Cutter Kids " from rth grade on.

lol. She was being forced to " look into my eyes " in elem. school. I asked her

what it felt like to have to look into someone's eyes and she told me it

physically hurt her. That was all I needed to know. Why make someone do

something painful just so YOU feel that they are paying attention. Makes about

as much sense to me as expecting someone with no legs to walk without

assistance. And as far as recognizing social cues, I have to tell you, now that

my DD is a teenager, she is more able to notice when she missed a cue. She often

asks me " Why did I miss that one Mom? " And the answer is usually " Because the

person was not being true to their feelings. " It's a cue. Not reality. A cue is

just a hint at what a person is trying to say. Why not come out and say it?

Tactfully of course. I also have never forced her to have friends her own age.

Of course, most of the children in her class are about the same age. She's in a

program now that has 8:2 and it IS an Aspie program. But the class is not made

up of children in the same grade. I believe there are 2 grades represented in

her class. I feel it's important that she can relate to her classmates and she

does pretty well. But as far as her relationships outside of school, I'm

grateful for her friendships even though most of them are with children who are

a few years younger than she is. Think of our friends. Are they all the same age

as we are? Someone said it simply...our job is to prepare them for the world

that they will CHOSE to live in and be supportive...be there for them. Just as

you would with an NT child. I am interested in the idea being presented in a

good deal of Aspie books out there that maybe these special children are really

here to teach us something. I've read Tony Atwood books and found them to be

great for " Aspie 101 " . Easy to understand and very insightful. I read most of

The Indigo Children and it encouraged me to follow my heart and listen to my DD.

She can tell me what she needs. I can't always help her GET what she wants. But

I feel it's possible that I've learned more from listening to her than from all

the reading I've done. As in all things, balance is required. And yes....treat

others as you'd like to be treated. I detest the pain she goes through as a

result of not being a Cookie Cutter Kid but she does not want to be one of them

and I'm proud of her for being secure in who she is. I chose early on to be

fascinated rather than frustrated with her " diagnosis. " Not that it does not get

frustrating, mind you. We all know that it does. But if you can make them feel

comfortable being who they are rather than making them think they must change to

survive, then I think you can see more of the fascinating qualities of AS or

HFA. I explain to my DD that there will be times that she may have to decide

whether to do or say something in a way that will make the people around her

more comfortable, or just say or do it the way she feels like doing it. I tell

her it can be a gift to that person rather than an obligation to them and that

it's that way for all people, not just Aspies. I do believe that Aspies have to

make that choice far more often than the rest of us. We just want our children

to be happy. I think this was a good thread. I'm glad that I found this group.

-Betsy

> >

> > Going by the past 21 yrs; believe me, there is no " forcing " them

> > to fit in, my daughter ALWAYS went to the beat of her own drummer,

> > she'd rather go without friends than do what all of them were doing

> > to fit in if she deemed it wrong.

> >

> > However, I feel that teaching them early social behaviors is very

> > helpful at helping them learn to cope with the enormity of their

> > incoming feelings and stimuli.

> >

> > Without learning the coping skills (social skills) to help them cope

> > with their enormous anxiety and meltdowns, I think they'd be less

> > able to be their true selves, their true genius, truthfullness,

> > loyalty, honesty, all that is good. I think it freed my daughter

> > to learn to control her anxiety and meltdowns, to know her disorder,

> > and accept it. We've b een thru tremendous stress and pain to get

> > to this point believe me. And this was late diagnosis, I think

> > early is better!! Jo

> >

>

February 18, 2010

"Cookie cutter kids"........he hee..

Yep,,,,,,My son just says that "we all hear different drums".

Love it!!!

It really is simple. Just treat others kindly and with respect.

Robin

From: itsbetsy <itsbetsy@...>Subject: ( ) Re: Fitting in... at what cost Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 12:18 AM

Chiming in. My DD referred to the NTs as "Cookie Cutter Kids" from rth grade on. lol. She was being forced to "look into my eyes" in elem. school. I asked her what it felt like to have to look into someone's eyes and she told me it physically hurt her. That was all I needed to know. Why make someone do something painful just so YOU feel that they are paying attention. Makes about as much sense to me as expecting someone with no legs to walk without assistance. And as far as recognizing social cues, I have to tell you, now that my DD is a teenager, she is more able to notice when she missed a cue. She often asks me "Why did I miss that one Mom?" And the answer is usually "Because the person was not being true to their feelings." It's a cue. Not reality. A cue is just a hint at what a person is trying to say. Why not come out and say it? Tactfully of course. I also have never forced her to have friends her own age. Of course, most of the children in

her class are about the same age. She's in a program now that has 8:2 and it IS an Aspie program. But the class is not made up of children in the same grade. I believe there are 2 grades represented in her class. I feel it's important that she can relate to her classmates and she does pretty well. But as far as her relationships outside of school, I'm grateful for her friendships even though most of them are with children who are a few years younger than she is. Think of our friends. Are they all the same age as we are? Someone said it simply...our job is to prepare them for the world that they will CHOSE to live in and be supportive.. .be there for them. Just as you would with an NT child. I am interested in the idea being presented in a good deal of Aspie books out there that maybe these special children are really here to teach us something. I've read Tony Atwood books and found them to be great for "Aspie 101". Easy to understand and very

insightful. I read most of The Indigo Children and it encouraged me to follow my heart and listen to my DD. She can tell me what she needs. I can't always help her GET what she wants. But I feel it's possible that I've learned more from listening to her than from all the reading I've done. As in all things, balance is required. And yes....treat others as you'd like to be treated. I detest the pain she goes through as a result of not being a Cookie Cutter Kid but she does not want to be one of them and I'm proud of her for being secure in who she is. I chose early on to be fascinated rather than frustrated with her "diagnosis." Not that it does not get frustrating, mind you. We all know that it does. But if you can make them feel comfortable being who they are rather than making them think they must change to survive, then I think you can see more of the fascinating qualities of AS or HFA. I explain to my DD that there will be times that she may have to

decide whether to do or say something in a way that will make the people around her more comfortable, or just say or do it the way she feels like doing it. I tell her it can be a gift to that person rather than an obligation to them and that it's that way for all people, not just Aspies. I do believe that Aspies have to make that choice far more often than the rest of us. We just want our children to be happy. I think this was a good thread. I'm glad that I found this group. -Betsy> >> > Going by the past 21 yrs; believe me, there is no "forcing" them> > to fit in, my daughter ALWAYS went to the beat of her own drummer,> > she'd rather go without friends than do what all of them were doing> > to fit in if she deemed it wrong.> > > > However, I feel that teaching them

early social behaviors is very> > helpful at helping them learn to cope with the enormity of their> > incoming feelings and stimuli. > > > > Without learning the coping skills (social skills) to help them cope> > with their enormous anxiety and meltdowns, I think they'd be less> > able to be their true selves, their true genius, truthfullness,> > loyalty, honesty, all that is good. I think it freed my daughter> > to learn to control her anxiety and meltdowns, to know her disorder,> > and accept it. We've b een thru tremendous stress and pain to get> > to this point believe me. And this was late diagnosis, I think> > early is better!! Jo> >>

February 18, 2010

I did enjoy your post Betsy. I do not agree with calling NT kids "Cookie cutter kids" because I think that reinforces the same stereotype we don't want our own AS/HFA kids to have! I have some NT kids as well and they are not cookie cutter once you get to know them.

But your discussion about teaching "look into someone's eyes" is interesting. Many times, we have a lot of fairly clueless people teaching social skill classes that are not meaningful. I think it is important for parents to check it out and make sure it fits and is appropriate to your child. Don't just advocate for social skill classes at school, for example, but show up and sit in on some, ask to see the curriculum being used, discuss concepts with the person teaching this to your child, etc.

For instance, in your example, looking at someone is more than just showing you are paying attention. There are a variety of reasons (many very important) for having this skill. I hate to think it is whittled down to a single lesson where one just does it without knowing why. In other words, the person teaching this to your dd should have instead discussed what one is doing when they are looking at a person in the face. Why would you look at someone? What do you look for and notice? What does looking tell you that you don't get from not looking, etc. All of these things are important to having relationships and getting along with others. So it's sad to have it melted down to "look in my eyes."

I had a similar experience once with my ds (13 yo, hfa) when he was in first grade. The teacher had gone out and taken a whole class on autism, which was a nice thing! What I did not realize is that she took everything she was taught to be related to my ds! lol. He complained years later about things like how she would talk to him - she would stop, lean down to his face, put her hands on each side of his face to focus him on her and then talk really slowly. lol. I can just picture this happening. Well, he isn't slow and his auditory skills are fine. And he probably really hated having her hands on his face. But someone thought to teach these as part of an autism curriculum without teaching the "why" of doing these things. For some kids, it might be important to do these kinds of things. For others, it is counter-productive.

Another time when my ds was in pre-school, I was still attending class with him (his first day there, I believe) and at some point, they signaled for all the kids with autism to be taken to the other room. So I went with my ds. Then the teachers and aides each grabbed a kid and hugged them tightly. I was wondering what was going on. Then one teacher started asking questions, "Is this how we do it?" and "how long do we do this?" I later found out after talking to the autism consultant for the school that they had had an inservice that morning on how to calm a kid down by holding them tightly. Well, none of the kids were out of control or getting out of control at the time. And some even did not appreciate being held tightly. lol. They did not seem to realize it was an option to be used under specific circumstances vs. something one does on once in a while for no reason. So again, a lesson was taught without enough information as to how it is useful or to be used. I sure stayed around with him for almost a week worrying that they would come up with another round of "let's play with the autistic kids" lol.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) Re: Fitting in... at what cost

Chiming in. My DD referred to the NTs as "Cookie Cutter Kids" from rth grade on. lol. She was being forced to "look into my eyes" in elem. school. I asked her what it felt like to have to look into someone's eyes and she told me it physically hurt her. That was all I needed to know. Why make someone do something painful just so YOU feel that they are paying attention. Makes about as much sense to me as expecting someone with no legs to walk without assistance. And as far as recognizing social cues, I have to tell you, now that my DD is a teenager, she is more able to notice when she missed a cue. She often asks me "Why did I miss that one Mom?" And the answer is usually "Because the person was not being true to their feelings." It's a cue. Not reality. A cue is just a hint at what a person is trying to say. Why not come out and say it? Tactfully of course. I also have never forced her to have friends her own age. Of course, mos

t of the children in her class are about the same age. She's in a program now that has 8:2 and it IS an Aspie program. But the class is not made up of children in the same grade. I believe there are 2 grades represented in her class. I feel it's important that she can relate to her classmates and she does pretty well. But as far as her relationships outside of school, I'm grateful for her friendships even though most of them are with children who are a few years younger than she is. Think of our friends. Are they all the same age as we are? Someone said it simply...our job is to prepare them for the world that they will CHOSE to live in and be supportive...be there for them. Just as you would with an NT child. I am interested in the idea being presented in a good deal of Aspie books out there that maybe these special children are really here to teach us something. I've read Tony Atwood books and found them to be great for "Aspie 101". Easy to understand and ve

ry insightful. I read most of The Indigo Children and it encouraged me to follow my heart and listen to my DD. She can tell me what she needs. I can't always help her GET what she wants. But I feel it's possible that I've learned more from listening to her than from all the reading I've done. As in all things, balance is required. And yes....treat others as you'd like to be treated. I detest the pain she goes through as a result of not being a Cookie Cutter Kid but she does not want to be one of them and I'm proud of her for being secure in who she is. I chose early on to be fascinated rather than frustrated with her "diagnosis." Not that it does not get frustrating, mind you. We all know that it does. But if you can make them feel comfortable being who they are rather than making them think they must change to survive, then I think you can see more of the fascinating qualities of AS or HFA. I explain to my DD that there will be times that she may have to decide wh

ether to do or say something in a way that will make the people around her more comfortable, or just say or do it the way she feels like doing it. I tell her it can be a gift to that person rather than an obligation to them and that it's that way for all people, not just Aspies. I do believe that Aspies have to make that choice far more often than the rest of us. We just want our children to be happy. I think this was a good thread. I'm glad that I found this group. -Betsy

> >

> > Going by the past 21 yrs; believe me, there is no "forcing" them

> > to fit in, my daughter ALWAYS went to the beat of her own drummer,

> > she'd rather go without friends than do what all of them were doing

> > to fit in if she deemed it wrong.

> >

> > However, I feel that teaching them early social behaviors is very

> > helpful at helping them learn to cope with the enormity of their

> > incoming feelings and stimuli.

> >

> > Without learning the coping skills (social skills) to help them cope

> > with their enormous anxiety and meltdowns, I think they'd be less

> > able to be their true selves, their true genius, truthfullness,

> > loyalty, honesty, all that is good. I think it freed my daughter

> > to learn to control her anxiety and meltdowns, to know her disorder,

> > and accept it. We've b een thru tremendous stress and pain to get

> > to this point believe me. And this was late diagnosis, I think

> > early is better!! Jo

> >

>

February 18, 2010

I always enjoy reading your posts, Roxanna. This one was also a delight to read. I can always be assured that I will learn something after your posts. I wonder, how you were received--by staff and your son--when you sat in on his classes? I've observed my son in class and I later found (by emails from staff after I did a records request) that they hated when I came and alerted other staff if I was there. My child is no longer at that school, but I had no idea there was such a negative sentiment with my presence.

On Thu, Feb 18, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Roxanna <MadIdeas@...> wrote:

I did enjoy your post Betsy. I do not agree with calling NT kids " Cookie cutter kids " because I think that reinforces the same stereotype we don't want our own AS/HFA kids to have! I have some NT kids as well and they are not cookie cutter once you get to know them.

But your discussion about teaching " look into someone's eyes " is interesting. Many times, we have a lot of fairly clueless people teaching social skill classes that are not meaningful. I think it is important for parents to check it out and make sure it fits and is appropriate to your child. Don't just advocate for social skill classes at school, for example, but show up and sit in on some, ask to see the curriculum being used, discuss concepts with the person teaching this to your child, etc.

For instance, in your example, looking at someone is more than just showing you are paying attention. There are a variety of reasons (many very important) for having this skill. I hate to think it is whittled down to a single lesson where one just does it without knowing why. In other words, the person teaching this to your dd should have instead discussed what one is doing when they are looking at a person in the face. Why would you look at someone? What do you look for and notice? What does looking tell you that you don't get from not looking, etc. All of these things are important to having relationships and getting along with others. So it's sad to have it melted down to " look in my eyes. "

I had a similar experience once with my ds (13 yo, hfa) when he was in first grade. The teacher had gone out and taken a whole class on autism, which was a nice thing! What I did not realize is that she took everything she was taught to be related to my ds! lol. He complained years later about things like how she would talk to him - she would stop, lean down to his face, put her hands on each side of his face to focus him on her and then talk really slowly. lol. I can just picture this happening. Well, he isn't slow and his auditory skills are fine. And he probably really hated having her hands on his face. But someone thought to teach these as part of an autism curriculum without teaching the " why " of doing these things. For some kids, it might be important to do these kinds of things. For others, it is counter-productive.

Another time when my ds was in pre-school, I was still attending class with him (his first day there, I believe) and at some point, they signaled for all the kids with autism to be taken to the other room. So I went with my ds. Then the teachers and aides each grabbed a kid and hugged them tightly. I was wondering what was going on. Then one teacher started asking questions, " Is this how we do it? " and " how long do we do this? " I later found out after talking to the autism consultant for the school that they had had an inservice that morning on how to calm a kid down by holding them tightly. Well, none of the kids were out of control or getting out of control at the time. And some even did not appreciate being held tightly. lol. They did not seem to realize it was an option to be used under specific circumstances vs. something one does on once in a while for no reason. So again, a lesson was taught without enough information as to how it is useful or to be used. I sure stayed around with him for almost a week worrying that they would come up with another round of " let's play with the autistic kids " lol.

Roxanna

" The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. " E. Burke

( ) Re: Fitting in... at what cost

Chiming in. My DD referred to the NTs as " Cookie Cutter Kids " from rth grade on. lol. She was being forced to " look into my eyes " in elem. school. I asked her what it felt like to have to look into someone's eyes and she told me it physically hurt her. That was all I needed to know. Why make someone do something painful just so YOU feel that they are paying attention. Makes about as much sense to me as expecting someone with no legs to walk without assistance. And as far as recognizing social cues, I have to tell you, now that my DD is a teenager, she is more able to notice when she missed a cue. She often asks me " Why did I miss that one Mom? " And the answer is usually " Because the person was not being true to their feelings. " It's a cue. Not reality. A cue is just a hint at what a person is trying to say. Why not come out and say it? Tactfully of course. I also have never forced her to have friends her own age. Of course, mos

t of the children in her class are about the same age. She's in a program now that has 8:2 and it IS an Aspie program. But the class is not made up of children in the same grade. I believe there are 2 grades represented in her class. I feel it's important that she can relate to her classmates and she does pretty well. But as far as her relationships outside of school, I'm grateful for her friendships even though most of them are with children who are a few years younger than she is. Think of our friends. Are they all the same age as we are? Someone said it simply...our job is to prepare them for the world that they will CHOSE to live in and be supportive...be there for them. Just as you would with an NT child. I am interested in the idea being presented in a good deal of Aspie books out there that maybe these special children are really here to teach us something. I've read Tony Atwood books and found them to be great for " Aspie 101 " . Easy to understand and ve

ry insightful. I read most of The Indigo Children and it encouraged me to follow my heart and listen to my DD. She can tell me what she needs. I can't always help her GET what she wants. But I feel it's possible that I've learned more from listening to her than from all the reading I've done. As in all things, balance is required. And yes....treat others as you'd like to be treated. I detest the pain she goes through as a result of not being a Cookie Cutter Kid but she does not want to be one of them and I'm proud of her for being secure in who she is. I chose early on to be fascinated rather than frustrated with her " diagnosis. " Not that it does not get frustrating, mind you. We all know that it does. But if you can make them feel comfortable being who they are rather than making them think they must change to survive, then I think you can see more of the fascinating qualities of AS or HFA. I explain to my DD that there will be times that she may have to decide wh

ether to do or say something in a way that will make the people around her more comfortable, or just say or do it the way she feels like doing it. I tell her it can be a gift to that person rather than an obligation to them and that it's that way for all people, not just Aspies. I do believe that Aspies have to make that choice far more often than the rest of us. We just want our children to be happy. I think this was a good thread. I'm glad that I found this group. -Betsy

> >

> > Going by the past 21 yrs; believe me, there is no " forcing " them

> > to fit in, my daughter ALWAYS went to the beat of her own drummer,

> > she'd rather go without friends than do what all of them were doing

> > to fit in if she deemed it wrong.

> >

> > However, I feel that teaching them early social behaviors is very

> > helpful at helping them learn to cope with the enormity of their

> > incoming feelings and stimuli.

> >

> > Without learning the coping skills (social skills) to help them cope

> > with their enormous anxiety and meltdowns, I think they'd be less

> > able to be their true selves, their true genius, truthfullness,

> > loyalty, honesty, all that is good. I think it freed my daughter

> > to learn to control her anxiety and meltdowns, to know her disorder,

> > and accept it. We've b een thru tremendous stress and pain to get

> > to this point believe me. And this was late diagnosis, I think

> > early is better!! Jo

> >

>

February 18, 2010

For us, the fitting in only goes so far as to try to make sure she is able to

learn in school and then get a career she loves and can be independent. With her

spirit, I know she would be happy with nothing less. Also, it's survival

instinct. As a woman she is more likely to be victimized and having the ability

to 'read' danger signals is important and I will try my best to give her some

street smarts if I can.

If she wants to be alone all the time, doesn't want to date, plays with Legos

until she's 80 then so be it!

Jen

>

> I'm just wondering what people's perspectives are on the issue of

> 'fitting in'. I've been reading a lot of articles by aspies, and many

> seem to feel that forcing them to fit in or trying to 'cure them' is the

> wrong approach. Do you worry that 'training' your Aspie to fit in will

> fundamentally change who they are meant to be, or are you confident that

> training them to fit in is the best thing for them in the long run?

>

> This is a piece of the puzzle that I am still perplexed by... how far do

> you go with treatments before you start erasing the individual and not

> just the disorder...

>

> Caitlin

> Embracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome-to-normal.com

> <http://www.welcome-to-normal.com>

>

February 18, 2010

Aren't record requests illuminating? lol.

I was seldom received very well by the staff. They tended to act like I was a pushy mom and did not belong in their classrooms. They usually wanted me to just sign the IEP and go away. Do not ask questions! Do not disagree with them! So there I came along and spoke up, asked questions, disagreed sometimes. I used to joke with friends that if I did not get a "look" or a comment from someone, then it meant I wasn't there enough that week. lol. It was never fun for me. I often tried to volunteer for the teacher so that I could hang out in a more natural way. But even then, people knew my kids had special needs and tended to view me as a problem parent even if I was being as nice as possible.

Also, we had many instances where we had to push for things from the school that they did not want to provide. For a year, one time, we had a lawyer coming in to argue with us to get a program in place for our ds. So we sometimes had an adversarial relationship going already and we usually all pretended we were friendly but you could just feel that they did not like us being there. We did make some friends with staff. Some were just great to work with. Others, it was a nightmare and I couldn't wait to move on to the next year.

One time when my ds was transitioning to a new building, the sped teacher had been forewarned about me and how complicated working with me would be. This was the year after we had our legal wranglings with the school and I suppose it was inevitable that they would portray us as difficult parents. Later, she told me I was not at all what she was told to expect. lol. We got along great. She was most impressed by how easy I was to work with. I was glad to hear these things because you can wonder, "Am I asking for too much? expecting too much? Being a bother?" etc. She and I agreed on most things and when we didn't, we compromised and discussed and came up with solutions we were both happy with. She appreciated my input, and I respected her more for that as well. she thought it was great that I wrote the IEP draft each year and she used everything I wrote too. Some years, I had teachers who resented having a parent who even had notes to add to the IEP. lol.

As for my kids and how they felt about me being in the room - my now 13 yo ds who I mentioned in the examples would not care that I was there. He was really autistic - not AS - and did not really care who was around him. He was in his own little world - just as the saying goes. So me hanging around meant mostly nothing to him for many years. Even as he got older, he knew I was there but it did not seem to have any stigma attached as a "typical" child might have with their parent right there. Now of course, he is 13 yo and I don't know if he would care or not if I was in a class with him and peers. He might be embarrassed by it. But he e-schools at home now so we don't face this. The last I was at his school hanging around was when he was in 5th grade and it did not upset him. With my youngest ds, who does not have autism, he did not seem to mind me hanging out at school at all. He was very shy and reserved and seemed to feel better with me there. As he got older, he even enjoyed having me around in class and enjoyed the attention he got from the other kids when I was there. I am sure eventually, he would have complained. lol.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) Re: Fitting in... at what cost

Chiming in. My DD referred to the NTs as "Cookie Cutter Kids" from rth grade on. lol. She was being forced to "look into my eyes" in elem. school. I asked her what it felt like to have to look into someone's eyes and she told me it physically hurt her. That was all I needed to know. Why make someone do something painful just so YOU feel that they are paying attention. Makes about as much sense to me as expecting someone with no legs to walk without assistance. And as far as recognizing social cues, I have to tell you, now that my DD is a teenager, she is more able to notice when she missed a cue. She often asks me "Why did I miss that one Mom?" And the answer is usually "Because the person was not being true to their feelings." It's a cue. Not reality. A cue is just a hint at what a person is trying to say. Why not come out and say it? Tactfully of course. I also have never forced her to have friends her own age. Of course, mos

t of the children in her class are about the same age. She's in a program now that has 8:2 and it IS an Aspie program. But the class is not made up of children in the same grade. I believe there are 2 grades represented in her class. I feel it's important that she can relate to her classmates and she does pretty well. But as far as her relationships outside of school, I'm grateful for her friendships even though most of them are with children who are a few years younger than she is. Think of our friends. Are they all the same age as we are? Someone said it simply...our job is to prepare them for the world that they will CHOSE to live in and be supportive...be there for them. Just as you would with an NT child. I am interested in the idea being presented in a good deal of Aspie books out there that maybe these special children are really here to teach us something. I've read Tony Atwood books and found them to be great for "Aspie 101". Easy to understand and ve

ry insightful. I read most of The Indigo Children and it encouraged me to follow my heart and listen to my DD. She can tell me what she needs. I can't always help her GET what she wants. But I feel it's possible that I've learned more from listening to her than from all the reading I've done. As in all things, balance is required. And yes....treat others as you'd like to be treated. I detest the pain she goes through as a result of not being a Cookie Cutter Kid but she does not want to be one of them and I'm proud of her for being secure in who she is. I chose early on to be fascinated rather than frustrated with her "diagnosis." Not that it does not get frustrating, mind you. We all know that it does. But if you can make them feel comfortable being who they are rather than making them think they must change to survive, then I think you can see more of the fascinating qualities of AS or HFA. I explain to my DD that there will be times that she may have to decide wh

ether to do or say something in a way that will make the people around her more comfortable, or just say or do it the way she feels like doing it. I tell her it can be a gift to that person rather than an obligation to them and that it's that way for all people, not just Aspies. I do believe that Aspies have to make that choice far more often than the rest of us. We just want our children to be happy. I think this was a good thread. I'm glad that I found this group. -Betsy

> >

> > Going by the past 21 yrs; believe me, there is no "forcing" them

> > to fit in, my daughter ALWAYS went to the beat of her own drummer,

> > she'd rather go without friends than do what all of them were doing

> > to fit in if she deemed it wrong.

> >

> > However, I feel that teaching them early social behaviors is very

> > helpful at helping them learn to cope with the enormity of their

> > incoming feelings and stimuli.

> >

> > Without learning the coping skills (social skills) to help them cope

> > with their enormous anxiety and meltdowns, I think they'd be less

> > able to be their true selves, their true genius, truthfullness,

> > loyalty, honesty, all that is good. I think it freed my daughter

> > to learn to control her anxiety and meltdowns, to know her disorder,

> > and accept it. We've b een thru tremendous stress and pain to get

> > to this point believe me. And this was late diagnosis, I think

> > early is better!! Jo

> >

>

February 19, 2010

Have to say I'm with Roxanne on this one, my son is 7 next week, he would love to have friends but really doesn't seem to understand why the other kids play together and he is left out, anything I can do that will help him understand this and help him have the skills to make the friends and keep the friends he wants to have I will do, I don't see this as forcing him to change or fit in, just giving him a choice.

Roxanne, I can imagine that teacher holding your sons face and speaking to him slowly, lol. My mother in law insists on hugging my son when he is having a bit of a tizzy even though I have repeatedly told her he doesn't like it and it just makes the situation worse, what can I say, she is 71 has raised 3 kids so obviously she knows best! lol

From: Whitewave <jenuhferr@...>Subject: ( ) Re: Fitting in... at what cost Date: Thursday, 18 February, 2010, 19:18

For us, the fitting in only goes so far as to try to make sure she is able to learn in school and then get a career she loves and can be independent. With her spirit, I know she would be happy with nothing less. Also, it's survival instinct. As a woman she is more likely to be victimized and having the ability to 'read' danger signals is important and I will try my best to give her some street smarts if I can. If she wants to be alone all the time, doesn't want to date, plays with Legos until she's 80 then so be it! :)Jen >> > I'm just wondering what people's perspectives are on the issue of> 'fitting in'. I've been reading a lot of articles by

aspies, and many> seem to feel that forcing them to fit in or trying to 'cure them' is the> wrong approach. Do you worry that 'training' your Aspie to fit in will> fundamentally change who they are meant to be, or are you confident that> training them to fit in is the best thing for them in the long run?> > This is a piece of the puzzle that I am still perplexed by... how far do> you go with treatments before you start erasing the individual and not> just the disorder...> > Caitlin> Embracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome- to-normal. com> <http://www.welcome- to-normal. com>>

February 27, 2010

I had to go to a family funeral the last few days and I took my mom along as well. Well, she knows my 13 yo ds takes things literally but she would keep teasing him and saying off the wall things to him, as if he would eventually smile and "get it" - he never did. So there I was, constantly saying, "Mom, he is taking you seriously" and she would laugh and say, "I know!" and keep at it. Was this funny?!?!? And so I'd have to take my ds aside or yell over her laughing in the car and say, "Grandma is just joking you, she is not seriously going to do that..." even though it did not really reassure him. I don't know why people do this! It can make a person want to scream. I wanted to scream! AUGH!!!!!!

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) Re: Fitting in... at what cost

Date: Thursday, 18 February, 2010, 19:18

For us, the fitting in only goes so far as to try to make sure she is able to learn in school and then get a career she loves and can be independent. With her spirit, I know she would be happy with nothing less. Also, it's survival instinct. As a woman she is more likely to be victimized and having the ability to 'read' danger signals is important and I will try my best to give her some street smarts if I can.

If she wants to be alone all the time, doesn't want to date, plays with Legos until she's 80 then so be it!

Jen

>

> I'm just wondering what people's perspectives are on the issue of

> 'fitting in'. I've been reading a lot of articles by

aspies, and many

> seem to feel that forcing them to fit in or trying to 'cure them' is the

> wrong approach. Do you worry that 'training' your Aspie to fit in will

> fundamentally change who they are meant to be, or are you confident that

> training them to fit in is the best thing for them in the long run?

>

> This is a piece of the puzzle that I am still perplexed by... how far do

> you go with treatments before you start erasing the individual and not

> just the disorder...

>

> Caitlin

> Embracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome- to-normal. com

> <http://www.welcome- to-normal. com>

>

February 27, 2010

I wonder how many counties/school districts have a special ed pta? I think for the ones that do exist, they ought to consider going into their kids' classrooms on a regular basis to help out and observe as a part of what they do. I also think they ought to report back to the group and let each other know what's happening--good and bad.

Yeah, interesting how a " pushy parent " reputation can stick. Many teachers just take another teacher's word and don't always take the time to verify on their own what is true: " Teacher gossip. " How many teacher's really take the time to evaluate if their co-worker has done right by a child or if they merely threw a parent under the bus to save their own ass?

I think when teacher's continue to pass around mis-information about a parent it's because they find it easier than having to get training than acknowledge they've failed a kid. It's their own way of ducking judgment by blaming the parent. When other teachers join in on the parent assassination, no real assessment of the situation happens. Bad teachers learn to re-direct attention and avoid scrutiny at the cost of decent parents' reputation.

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:10 AM, Roxanna <MadIdeas@...> wrote:

Aren't record requests illuminating? lol.

I was seldom received very well by the staff. They tended to act like I was a pushy mom and did not belong in their classrooms. They usually wanted me to just sign the IEP and go away. Do not ask questions! Do not disagree with them! So there I came along and spoke up, asked questions, disagreed sometimes. I used to joke with friends that if I did not get a " look " or a comment from someone, then it meant I wasn't there enough that week. lol. It was never fun for me. I often tried to volunteer for the teacher so that I could hang out in a more natural way. But even then, people knew my kids had special needs and tended to view me as a problem parent even if I was being as nice as possible.

Also, we had many instances where we had to push for things from the school that they did not want to provide. For a year, one time, we had a lawyer coming in to argue with us to get a program in place for our ds. So we sometimes had an adversarial relationship going already and we usually all pretended we were friendly but you could just feel that they did not like us being there. We did make some friends with staff. Some were just great to work with. Others, it was a nightmare and I couldn't wait to move on to the next year.

One time when my ds was transitioning to a new building, the sped teacher had been forewarned about me and how complicated working with me would be. This was the year after we had our legal wranglings with the school and I suppose it was inevitable that they would portray us as difficult parents. Later, she told me I was not at all what she was told to expect. lol. We got along great. She was most impressed by how easy I was to work with. I was glad to hear these things because you can wonder, " Am I asking for too much? expecting too much? Being a bother? " etc. She and I agreed on most things and when we didn't, we compromised and discussed and came up with solutions we were both happy with. She appreciated my input, and I respected her more for that as well. she thought it was great that I wrote the IEP draft each year and she used everything I wrote too. Some years, I had teachers who resented having a parent who even had notes to add to the IEP. lol.

As for my kids and how they felt about me being in the room - my now 13 yo ds who I mentioned in the examples would not care that I was there. He was really autistic - not AS - and did not really care who was around him. He was in his own little world - just as the saying goes. So me hanging around meant mostly nothing to him for many years. Even as he got older, he knew I was there but it did not seem to have any stigma attached as a " typical " child might have with their parent right there. Now of course, he is 13 yo and I don't know if he would care or not if I was in a class with him and peers. He might be embarrassed by it. But he e-schools at home now so we don't face this. The last I was at his school hanging around was when he was in 5th grade and it did not upset him. With my youngest ds, who does not have autism, he did not seem to mind me hanging out at school at all. He was very shy and reserved and seemed to feel better with me there. As he got older, he even enjoyed having me around in class and enjoyed the attention he got from the other kids when I was there. I am sure eventually, he would have complained. lol.

Roxanna

" The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. " E. Burke

( ) Re: Fitting in... at what cost

Chiming in. My DD referred to the NTs as " Cookie Cutter Kids " from rth grade on. lol. She was being forced to " look into my eyes " in elem. school. I asked her what it felt like to have to look into someone's eyes and she told me it physically hurt her. That was all I needed to know. Why make someone do something painful just so YOU feel that they are paying attention. Makes about as much sense to me as expecting someone with no legs to walk without assistance. And as far as recognizing social cues, I have to tell you, now that my DD is a teenager, she is more able to notice when she missed a cue. She often asks me " Why did I miss that one Mom? " And the answer is usually " Because the person was not being true to their feelings. " It's a cue. Not reality. A cue is just a hint at what a person is trying to say. Why not come out and say it? Tactfully of course. I also have never forced her to have friends her own age. Of course, mos

t of the children in her class are about the same age. She's in a program now that has 8:2 and it IS an Aspie program. But the class is not made up of children in the same grade. I believe there are 2 grades represented in her class. I feel it's important that she can relate to her classmates and she does pretty well. But as far as her relationships outside of school, I'm grateful for her friendships even though most of them are with children who are a few years younger than she is. Think of our friends. Are they all the same age as we are? Someone said it simply...our job is to prepare them for the world that they will CHOSE to live in and be supportive...be there for them. Just as you would with an NT child. I am interested in the idea being presented in a good deal of Aspie books out there that maybe these special children are really here to teach us something. I've read Tony Atwood books and found them to be great for " Aspie 101 " . Easy to understand and ve

ry insightful. I read most of The Indigo Children and it encouraged me to follow my heart and listen to my DD. She can tell me what she needs. I can't always help her GET what she wants. But I feel it's possible that I've learned more from listening to her than from all the reading I've done. As in all things, balance is required. And yes....treat others as you'd like to be treated. I detest the pain she goes through as a result of not being a Cookie Cutter Kid but she does not want to be one of them and I'm proud of her for being secure in who she is. I chose early on to be fascinated rather than frustrated with her " diagnosis. " Not that it does not get frustrating, mind you. We all know that it does. But if you can make them feel comfortable being who they are rather than making them think they must change to survive, then I think you can see more of the fascinating qualities of AS or HFA. I explain to my DD that there will be times that she may have to decide wh

ether to do or say something in a way that will make the people around her more comfortable, or just say or do it the way she feels like doing it. I tell her it can be a gift to that person rather than an obligation to them and that it's that way for all people, not just Aspies. I do believe that Aspies have to make that choice far more often than the rest of us. We just want our children to be happy. I think this was a good thread. I'm glad that I found this group. -Betsy

> >

> > Going by the past 21 yrs; believe me, there is no " forcing " them

> > to fit in, my daughter ALWAYS went to the beat of her own drummer,

> > she'd rather go without friends than do what all of them were doing

> > to fit in if she deemed it wrong.

> >

> > However, I feel that teaching them early social behaviors is very

> > helpful at helping them learn to cope with the enormity of their

> > incoming feelings and stimuli.

> >

> > Without learning the coping skills (social skills) to help them cope

> > with their enormous anxiety and meltdowns, I think they'd be less

> > able to be their true selves, their true genius, truthfullness,

> > loyalty, honesty, all that is good. I think it freed my daughter

> > to learn to control her anxiety and meltdowns, to know her disorder,

> > and accept it. We've b een thru tremendous stress and pain to get

> > to this point believe me. And this was late diagnosis, I think

> > early is better!! Jo

> >

>

February 27, 2010

I laugh...although not really funny...but this rings a bell...

My reputation had all my son's teachers worried...he was going into a new school...jr. high. I was told that word had spread about "how I was a Pain in Butt and more" ha ha! Teachers were nervous...lol... so worried...the asst. principal called me aside and told me how nervous the teachers were because I am in constant contact with the Superintendent of Sped. and was asked just to contact her. LOL....sure i said..but believe me...i wil still stay in touch with the superintendent...Am I a Bxxch...NO! But am i a pushover...NO! I just want them to understand my son...I just want him to get the best education possible...and I just want them to do THEIR job. Now the funny thing is ...all his Jr. Hi. teachers are fantastic. No problems this year. His new case manager is FANTASTIC!!!!!! And, guess what...i emailed the Ast. Superintendent of Sped...with PRAISES... which i had done at times when he was in

the other school...but of course no one ever said anything about that.

The way I feel...if you do your job...then I don't need to be a "pain the butt" or a "Bxxch on wheels"....and if anyone ever wants to email my boss about me...I would be happy because i am there for the students every single day...I feel I do my job and beyond. I will adovcate for them and my son ....and I will do my best for all of them....

It just amazes me....how teachers can talk...but then again...I must tell all of you ...there are some really wonderful teachers out there...teachers who go beyond and above...who care about their students...I see it first hand....and I sing their praises every day.

Jan

Janice Rushen

& nbsp;

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: <doyourecycle@...> Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 2:51:17 PMSubject: Re: ( ) Re: Fitting in... at what cost

I wonder how many counties/school districts have a special ed pta? I think for the ones that do exist, they ought to consider going into their kids' classrooms on a regular basis to help out and observe as a part of what they do. I also think they ought to report back to the group and let each other know what's happening--good and bad.Yeah, interesting how a "pushy parent" reputation can stick. Many teachers just take another teacher's word and don't always take the time to verify on their own what is true: "Teacher gossip." How many teacher's really take the time to evaluate if their co-worker has done right by a child or if they merely threw a parent under the bus to save

their own ass? I think when teacher's continue to pass around mis-information about a parent it's because they find it easier than having to get training than acknowledge they've failed a kid. It's their own way of ducking judgment by blaming the parent. When other teachers join in on the parent assassination, no real assessment of the situation happens. Bad teachers learn to re-direct attention and avoid scrutiny at the cost of decent parents' reputation.

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 12:10 AM, Roxanna <MadIdeasaol (DOT) com> wrote:

Aren't record requests illuminating? lol. I was seldom received very well by the staff. They tended to act like I was a pushy mom and did not belong in their classrooms. They usually wanted me to just sign the IEP and go away. Do not ask questions! Do not disagree with them! So there I came along and spoke up, asked questions, disagreed sometimes. I used to joke with friends that if I did not get a "look" or a comment from someone, then it meant I wasn't there enough that week. lol. It was never fun for me. I often tried to volunteer for the teacher so that I could hang out in a more natural way. But even then, people knew my kids had special needs and tended to view me as a problem parent even if I was being as nice as possible. Also, we had many instances where we had to push for things from the

school that they did not want to provide. For a year, one time, we had a lawyer coming in to argue with us to get a program in place for our ds. So we sometimes had an adversarial relationship going already and we usually all pretended we were friendly but you could just feel that they did not like us being there. We did make some friends with staff. Some were just great to work with. Others, it was a nightmare and I couldn't wait to move on to the next year. One time when my ds was transitioning to a new building, the sped teacher had been forewarned about me and how complicated working with me would be. This was the year after we had our legal wranglings with the school and I suppose it was inevitable that they would portray us as difficult parents. Later, she told me I was not at all what she was told to expect. lol. We got along great. She was most impressed by how easy I was

to work with. I was glad to hear these things because you can wonder, "Am I asking for too much? expecting too much? Being a bother?" etc. She and I agreed on most things and when we didn't, we compromised and discussed and came up with solutions we were both happy with. She appreciated my input, and I respected her more for that as well. she thought it was great that I wrote the IEP draft each year and she used everything I wrote too. Some years, I had teachers who resented having a parent who even had notes to add to the IEP. lol. As for my kids and how they felt about me being in the room - my now 13 yo ds who I mentioned in the examples would not care that I was there. He was really autistic - not AS - and did not really care who was around him. He was in his own little world - just as the saying goes. So me hanging around meant mostly nothing to him for many years. Even as he

got older, he knew I was there but it did not seem to have any stigma attached as a "typical" child might have with their parent right there. Now of course, he is 13 yo and I don't know if he would care or not if I was in a class with him and peers. He might be embarrassed by it. But he e-schools at home now so we don't face this. The last I was at his school hanging around was when he was in 5th grade and it did not upset him. With my youngest ds, who does not have autism, he did not seem to mind me hanging out at school at all. He was very shy and reserved and seemed to feel better with me there. As he got older, he even enjoyed having me around in class and enjoyed the attention he got from the other kids when I was there. I am sure eventually, he would have complained. lol.

Roxanna"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) Re: Fitting in... at what cost

Chiming in. My DD referred to the NTs as "Cookie Cutter Kids" from rth grade on. lol. She was being forced to "look into my eyes" in elem. school. I asked her what it felt like to have to look into someone's eyes and she told me it physically hurt her. That was all I needed to know. Why make someone do something painful just so YOU feel that they are paying attention. Makes about as much sense to me as expecting someone with no legs to walk without assistance. And as far as recognizing social cues, I have to tell you, now that my DD is a teenager, she is more able to notice when she missed a cue. She often asks me "Why did I miss that one Mom?" And the answer is usually "Because the person was not being true to their feelings." It's a cue. Not reality. A cue is just a hint at what a person is trying to say. Why not come out and say it? Tactfully of course. I also have never forced her to have friends her own age. Of course, mos t of the children in

her class are about the same age. She's in a program now that has 8:2 and it IS an Aspie program. But the class is not made up of children in the same grade. I believe there are 2 grades represented in her class. I feel it's important that she can relate to her classmates and she does pretty well. But as far as her relationships outside of school, I'm grateful for her friendships even though most of them are with children who are a few years younger than she is. Think of our friends. Are they all the same age as we are? Someone said it simply...our job is to prepare them for the world that they will CHOSE to live in and be supportive.. .be there for them. Just as you would with an NT child. I am interested in the idea being presented in a good deal of Aspie books out there that maybe these special children are really here to teach us something. I've read Tony Atwood books and found them to be great for "Aspie 101". Easy to understand and ve ry

insightful. I read most of The Indigo Children and it encouraged me to follow my heart and listen to my DD. She can tell me what she needs. I can't always help her GET what she wants. But I feel it's possible that I've learned more from listening to her than from all the reading I've done. As in all things, balance is required. And yes....treat others as you'd like to be treated. I detest the pain she goes through as a result of not being a Cookie Cutter Kid but she does not want to be one of them and I'm proud of her for being secure in who she is. I chose early on to be fascinated rather than frustrated with her "diagnosis." Not that it does not get frustrating, mind you. We all know that it does. But if you can make them feel comfortable being who they are rather than making them think they must change to survive, then I think you can see more of the fascinating qualities of AS or HFA. I explain to my DD that there will be times that she may have to

decide wh ether to do or say something in a way that will make the people around her more comfortable, or just say or do it the way she feels like doing it. I tell her it can be a gift to that person rather than an obligation to them and that it's that way for all people, not just Aspies. I do believe that Aspies have to make that choice far more often than the rest of us. We just want our children to be happy. I think this was a good thread. I'm glad that I found this group. -Betsy> >> > Going by the past 21 yrs; believe me, there is no "forcing" them> > to fit in, my daughter ALWAYS went to the beat of her own drummer,> > she'd rather go without friends than do what all of them were doing> > to fit in if she deemed it wrong.> > > > However, I feel that

teaching them early social behaviors is very> > helpful at helping them learn to cope with the enormity of their> > incoming feelings and stimuli. > > > > Without learning the coping skills (social skills) to help them cope> > with their enormous anxiety and meltdowns, I think they'd be less> > able to be their true selves, their true genius, truthfullness,> > loyalty, honesty, all that is good. I think it freed my daughter> > to learn to control her anxiety and meltdowns, to know her disorder,> > and accept it. We've b een thru tremendous stress and pain to get> > to this point believe me. And this was late diagnosis, I think> > early is better!! Jo> >>

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Re: Fitting in... at what cost

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