Re: A different point of view.

[Guest guest]

OK, it comes down to, is an educator a " professional " or is it " a

job " ? I, as an RN, had to devote much time to continueing education,

it was required, and was not paid for. It was required for my

license. Same goes for other " professions " .

You finds ways to do it, its required to continue to work in your

chosen profession.

So, I guess an educator can choose to be a " professional " or to

just consider it " work " . If one chooses to consider it " work " ,

then burnout is usually involved, and a change in " career " is

warrented.

As an RN, I saw both types also. They, too, affected those under

their " power " . For better or worse depending on their attitude.

Jo

> >>

> >> Jen,

> >>

> >> I have to agree with you, I feel a lot of parents including myself started

> >> out in their quest for their AS child's education on a positive note, only

> >> to end up frustrated and disappointed in the school system. I believe there

> >> are positive experiences out there like the one Vicki had but they are a

> >> rare occurrence. I would just caution Vicky, your child still has many

years

> >> of school left, when there are budget cuts or change in schools the staff

> >> and programs that where put in place for your child will also change.

> >>

> >> Thanks,

> >> Dawn

> >>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Nope, neither. But great point about your hair stylist. That's almost the exact same thing as a teacher. I think more teachers need to understand that if they spent weekends at conferences, they could advance their careers, like being the Head Teacher. And the Head Head Teacher. Lots of career advancement opportunities in the teaching profession.

"Over-optimism is waiting for you ship to come in when you haven't sent one out."

From: <doyourecycle@...> Sent: Thu, February 11, 2010 7:51:16 PMSubject: Re: ( ) A different point of view.

When you choose to extract one part of the issue and hyper focus on that, I think you're baiting me. Are you a teacher or a county employee? Sounds like you're defending mediocrity.Consider a hair dresser, a doctor or the teacher. They can all take extra training to make themselves better at their "chosen" profession. My hair stylist flys to L.A. for a yearly class--out of pocket. She says if she keeps up with trends and sharpen her skills, she keeps advancing and is a top stylist in her salon (a rating system) She also says the salon doesn't have to force stylists to take the classes. The stylists get that the training is crucial to their personal success as well as the success of a clients hair.Can't you just tell when you meet someone that loves what they do? You absolutely don't hear them whining about taking a conference that might spill over into the weekend. Can't you tell when you meet someone whether or not they will to rise to the occasion? The good ones want to raise the bar. They don't whine that they don't work weekends--the shitty ones are doing all the whining. The good ones are also not whining about taking training to advance their careers. The good ones, "get it."

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 8:13 PM, MacAllister <smacalli (DOT) com> wrote:

I disagree with you on so many levels. So, being a good teacher means you go to weekend conferences, with no pay, and time away from your own family, so you can learn more about teaching a child with Aspergers? What if you have a child w/ Aspergers, a child with dyslexia, a gifted child, a child of a single mom, a child of an alcoholic, and kids from 6 different cultures in your classroom. Would that "good" teacher spend weekends off the clock to learn more about each of these situations so they can be a better teacher? I think you are being unrealistic. And being a good teacher means you teach every child exactly how (you? the parent? the spec ed dept? the administration? ) thinks the child learns best?

I think the original poster was saying that we, as parents, need to have compassion for teachers and not set expectations that since they have a teaching certificate, they should know exactly how to deal/work with our children and every other child in the class. I agree with her. We are part of the solution. If we walk into the classroom with a chip on our shoulder and a "you don't know how to do your job" attitude, school personnel are not going to want to work with us.

"Over-optimism is waiting for you ship to come in when you haven't sent one out."

From: <doyourecycle@ gmail.com> Sent: Thu, February 11, 2010 9:52:03 AMSubject: Re: ( ) A different point of view.

I don't have enough time to express in detail the thoughts I have on this issue in regards to educators. What I will say is that if someone chooses to become a teacher/educator, then it is their duty to learn about their field in whatever form that may take. I heard a renowned autism speaker talk about educational conferences and how much of his own money he puts into his career. He used a professional conference as one example. He was at one that went from Friday to a Saturday, and that 80 % of the teachers, he said, left on Friday night as they, "weren't going to let their weekend get eaten up by a teacher's conference." He went on to say

that he spends his own money for professional publications and conferences because he wants to be educated in a way that he is on top of his game and brings his best to the table. The teacher's that balk about such things, he says, are in the wrong profession. It was so easy to see that this guy was filled with passion for his work. By comparison, a very large number of teacher's are in the wrong profession.Teacher's are also imprinted by principals and administrator's. Many bottom line principals put new teachers on the wrong track by making the wrong principles important. When parents are made out to be the enemy instead of a part of a collaborative team, a parent is really facing an uphill battle where everyone loses. When

principals have autonomy with little to no oversight, then they can get away with doing the least amount of effort for special ed kids. When a school board and superintendent don't even acknowledge the needs of autism or special education, then principals are free to do as little as they want to. No one will keep them in check. One or two parents complaining will surely be seen as little annoyances rather than an indication of a bigger problem.Keeping special ed kids out of the picture for a minute, we all realize, I think, that not all kids learn the same way. A good teacher recognizes this and is prepared for it. (With my first nt, I had my share of teacher's who never really reached for mediocrity and it was painfully clear they

didn't care)When you consider special ed kids in the mix, then I believe these are the kids that put a teacher's calling to the test. They are another form of, "not all kids learn the same way." Granted, I'm not saying that teaching won't be difficult, but if a teacher won't even make the attempt to teach to a child in a way that they learn, then all is lost and that teacher should get another job.

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:24 AM, baneline1 <baneline1msn (DOT) com> wrote:

Not every teacher we have had has been good. Last year was really pretty bad. I take responsiblity for that because I was not being proactive. I don't believe that it is because the teachers are evil I think it is because they didn't understand. I was trying to express that it is important for us to remember how much we have had to learn about this disability and are always learning and to transfer that compassion to the teachers. I am aware of the fact that things can change along with different administration and have been through that. I also know that I have rights under the law and I am not afraid to remind them of that. Vickie

>> Jen,> > I have to agree with you, I feel a lot of parents including myself started > out in their quest for their AS child's education on a positive note, only > to end up frustrated and disappointed in the school system. I believe there > are positive experiences out there like the one Vicki had but they are a > rare occurrence. I would just caution Vicky, your child still has many years > of school left, when there are budget cuts or change in schools the staff > and programs that where put in place for your child will also change. > > Thanks, > Dawn>

[Guest guest]

Miriam, you said how I feel much better than I did. Thank you!

Vickie

> >

> >

> >

> > I was trying to express that it is important for us to remember how much we

> > have had to learn about this disability and are always learning and to

> > transfer that compassion to the teachers.

> >

> >

> > Vicky, this is true, unfortunately in my own experience with this, the

> > teachers and administrators are not open to receiving this information.

There

> > are times I hope for that perfect world and everyone involved with my child

> > understands his AS. The bottom line, I know I must always advocate for my

> > son.

> >

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Dawn

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Actually continuing education is very much a part of having a teaching license

the same as an RN. Just as most places that nurses work (nursing homes,

hospitals) have Ed Fairs or whatever they call them when they have continuing

education classes for the nurses so do most schools have teacher work days where

they have continuing education for the teachers. As with any " profession " that

requires continuing education some will choose to go above and beyond and some

will merely meat the minimum.

Vickie

> > >>

> > >> Jen,

> > >>

> > >> I have to agree with you, I feel a lot of parents including myself

started

> > >> out in their quest for their AS child's education on a positive note,

only

> > >> to end up frustrated and disappointed in the school system. I believe

there

> > >> are positive experiences out there like the one Vicki had but they are a

> > >> rare occurrence. I would just caution Vicky, your child still has many

years

> > >> of school left, when there are budget cuts or change in schools the staff

> > >> and programs that where put in place for your child will also change.

> > >>

> > >> Thanks,

> > >> Dawn

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I do agree that we shouldn't expect the teachers to know how to handle

everything and I don't, but I do expect them to make an attempt to learn which

did not happen with my son's teacher.

>

> I would like to share some thoughts that I have had over the last week or so

after reading the posts. I know that there is a lot of frustration toward

schools and teachers and I just wanted to provide a different point of view for

concideration. This is not meant to upset anyone who is having problems with

their child.

>

> When my son started having trouble and getting diagnosed I was completely

ignorant to most special needs issues. I will admit that I thought ADHD was an

excuse for parents not knowing how to parent. I was a complete snob about it

and thought that they were all a bunch of kids that needed a little discipline.

Well then my son was diagnosed ADHD and I had to shift my perspective. I had to

learn, very quickly what ADHD was really all about. As it turned out my son was

not really ADHD it was a symptom of his AS (which is not uncommon for the

diagnosis to get tweeked as they get older.)

>

> So I had years to learn first about ADHD and later about PDD's and AS with the

help of many different specialists. The Psychologists, Psychiatrist and

Neuropsycological testing all helped me to understand why my son does what he

does and learn techniques for dealing with them.

>

> I don't understand why as a group of parent that have gone to hell and back

again trying to learn about our own children and their disability we are so

uncompasionate toward others who don't understand. We come together as parents

every day/week to ask each other for help yet we expect the teachers and schools

to immediately know what to do. Even if the teachers have had some experience

with Autism, Aspergers, PDD, ADHD, ODD or OCD they have never dealt with a child

that is just like mine. Because they are all different. That is the nature of

how AS affects them.

>

> Furthermore, if you have ever taken time to really talk to any of teachers and

administrators you will find that often times they are dealing with a lot of

other children and parents beside just YOUR child. Many time they are dealing

with parents who refuse to see their child as having any problem at all and just

expect the school to handle it.

>

> Then they have the laws to deal with. The school can't just decide to treat

your child different because they see a need. Have you ever sat down and read

the Federal or State laws or the school district policy. It is just like

running a business everything must be documented and all children must be held

to the same rules unless they have been placed into and IEP or Accomodation

plan. If they don't dot the i's and cross the t's they can get sued.

>

> Of course the schools must also look at the money part. But, if your child is

in special ed they get extra money for that. If you have not done your part to

get them in special ed than it is going to cost the district money to provide

services and they are not likely to agree. They don't do this because they want

to keep the money for themselves. There is a limited pool of money that they

have to work with and the aren't going to get more by going out to the " stash "

in the back.

>

> I believe that there are some very BAD teachers and school districts out

there. But there are also some very good ones (I happen to be in one of them).

Most are somewhere in between. I believe that most teachers have a good heart

and want to help children but they are also just people who make mistakes. Not

all of my childrens teachers have been great some have not even been very good.

I just try to really help them to learn from my son so they will be better with

the next child that comes along with a disability.

>

> I know that this sounds preachy and some of you will be angry after reading it

but I really felt compelled to write. If even one person can stop and put

yourself in someone elses shoes for a minute maybe we can make progress toward

having better schools for every child.

>

> I believe in doing my part of my sons education which is making sure that my

son is diagnosed and treated properly. I do this by working with the doctors.

I work hard to educate the school district as to my sons disablity and how it

affects his education. And I hold the school accountable to follow the law. The

law is really on our side if we do our part.

>

> I hope I have not upset anyone to much.

>

> Vickie

>

[Guest guest]

It's certainly a reasonable expectation to expect the teacher to learn about your son. At the beginning of each year, I send a letter about my son (it's about 2 pages long) to his teachers via email and encourage them to reach out to me with any questions about Dylan. I include the names of teachers who've had the greatest success with him in the letter, in case they want to reach out to learn directly from one of his past teachers. I also put it out there that I'm looking forward to working with them and that I'm committed to keeping the lines of communication open throughout the school year. Grades are posted online at Dylan's school so I check them periodically and send emails to individual teachers if there is missing or questionable work. I've been doing this for 3 years now and get varied feedback (from none to "thanks!" to more detailed questions.) I also copy the Special Education

staff assigned to my son.

"Over-optimism is waiting for you ship to come in when you haven't sent one out."

From: jm.smoldt <jm.smoldt@...> Sent: Fri, February 12, 2010 10:17:00 AMSubject: ( ) Re: A different point of view.

I do agree that we shouldn't expect the teachers to know how to handle everything and I don't, but I do expect them to make an attempt to learn which did not happen with my son's teacher.>> I would like to share some thoughts that I have had over the last week or so after reading the posts. I know that there is a lot of frustration toward schools and teachers and I just wanted to provide a different point of view for concideration. This is not meant to upset anyone who is having problems with their child.> > When my son started having trouble and getting diagnosed I was completely ignorant to most special needs issues. I will admit that I thought ADHD was an excuse for parents not knowing how to

parent. I was a complete snob about it and thought that they were all a bunch of kids that needed a little discipline. Well then my son was diagnosed ADHD and I had to shift my perspective. I had to learn, very quickly what ADHD was really all about. As it turned out my son was not really ADHD it was a symptom of his AS (which is not uncommon for the diagnosis to get tweeked as they get older.)> > So I had years to learn first about ADHD and later about PDD's and AS with the help of many different specialists. The Psychologists, Psychiatrist and Neuropsycological testing all helped me to understand why my son does what he does and learn techniques for dealing with them.> > I don't understand why as a group of parent that have gone to hell and back again trying to learn about our own children and their disability we are so uncompasionate toward others who don't understand. We come together as parents every day/week to ask each

other for help yet we expect the teachers and schools to immediately know what to do. Even if the teachers have had some experience with Autism, Aspergers, PDD, ADHD, ODD or OCD they have never dealt with a child that is just like mine. Because they are all different. That is the nature of how AS affects them.> > Furthermore, if you have ever taken time to really talk to any of teachers and administrators you will find that often times they are dealing with a lot of other children and parents beside just YOUR child. Many time they are dealing with parents who refuse to see their child as having any problem at all and just expect the school to handle it.> > Then they have the laws to deal with. The school can't just decide to treat your child different because they see a need. Have you ever sat down and read the Federal or State laws or the school district policy. It is just like running a business everything must be

documented and all children must be held to the same rules unless they have been placed into and IEP or Accomodation plan. If they don't dot the i's and cross the t's they can get sued. > > Of course the schools must also look at the money part. But, if your child is in special ed they get extra money for that. If you have not done your part to get them in special ed than it is going to cost the district money to provide services and they are not likely to agree. They don't do this because they want to keep the money for themselves. There is a limited pool of money that they have to work with and the aren't going to get more by going out to the "stash" in the back.> > I believe that there are some very BAD teachers and school districts out there. But there are also some very good ones (I happen to be in one of them). Most are somewhere in between. I believe that most teachers have a good heart and want to help children but

they are also just people who make mistakes. Not all of my childrens teachers have been great some have not even been very good. I just try to really help them to learn from my son so they will be better with the next child that comes along with a disability. > > I know that this sounds preachy and some of you will be angry after reading it but I really felt compelled to write. If even one person can stop and put yourself in someone elses shoes for a minute maybe we can make progress toward having better schools for every child.> > I believe in doing my part of my sons education which is making sure that my son is diagnosed and treated properly. I do this by working with the doctors. I work hard to educate the school district as to my sons disablity and how it affects his education. And I hold the school accountable to follow the law. The law is really on our side if we do our part.> > I hope I have not upset

anyone to much.> > Vickie>

[Guest guest]

I really loved what you wrote …. When Zak was born I

decided to follow my passion so that it would fit around our belief that we

didn’t want to dump our son in daycare (take offense if you want –

I’m very direct). We had just moved into a brand new house with a

house payment of $850. Husband got out of the air force and in AZ the

unemployment was $154 a week (he changed professions from Fireman to Computer

Engineer), we had $5000 in savings (only), had moved from another state and I

gave up a $90,000 a year job.

We didn’t pay the first 2 months of our very first

mortgage. We ran up all the credit cards and maxed them out and borrowed

money from my parents. On the 3rd month I broke even with my

new business (that was built around my passion). My husband had a job and

he worked from 2pm to 11pm so I could work all morning and we both could take

care of Zak. It took us 7 months to catch up with everything (the CC

companies did very well on back interest) that we owed and we didn’t go

to Debtors Prison!

Do I suggest to my clients now they do what I did in the way I

did it??? NO WAY… I was very committed to my passion as well as to

the lifestyle we wanted to create. (We already knew it probably wouldn’t

include school and this was way before we knew Zak has Aspergers).

However you can switch over a period of time from doing something that MAKES

you have to put your child in school and not have passion for your work to

where you have more choices of what you do with your child because your time is

under your control and not an employer.

If I had to do it all again (I started my business nearly 15

years ago now and it’s going even stronger), I would.

If you hear yourself saying, as you read this.. “well that’s

ok for her or I don’t have any skills or talents to create something

either from home or as a consultant or part timer or you have to have lots of

money FIRST in order to do that or any other number of excuses we use not to

follow our passion.

Many of you on this list are obviously intelligent, well

educated (personal learning you’ve done about autism), good research

skills, computer skills and write very well… Those skills alone can be

crafted into something and that’s without whatever all of you were “trained”

to be/do.

When the shit hits the fan and our backs are up against the wall

that IS the time to look at making radical changes in our perceptions and

lives. I believe it’s the Universe giving us a nudge to take charge

of all areas of our lives.

I used to wonder why me with Zak… I felt sorry for myself

many years ago… Why couldn’t he be “normal”…. All

about me of course and then I started to read and learn and be with him and

watch and interact and I couldn’t imagine him being anyone other than who

he is, strange behavior and all! I also couldn’t imagine fashioning

my life so that I could make his life easier.

I know that every time I have put Zak in school the first week

was great… Lots of friends, good grades, things going well. 2nd

week, less friends, more humming from him in the car (not a good sign), not

sleeping and not doing the work they wanted him to do. By 1 month

everything usually disintegrated and as he got older he got suspended more.

I’m done with the school thing and the only way to make the homeschooling

thing work for me is to have my own business.

Just some thoughts this sunny Tucson afternoon. (apologies

to those in the thick of the snow on the east coast)

Namaste

Dawn in Tucson

From:

[mailto: ] On

Behalf Of

Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 6:51 PM

Subject: Re: ( ) A different point of view.

When

you choose to extract one part of the issue and hyper focus on that, I think

you're baiting me. Are you a teacher or a county employee? Sounds like

you're defending mediocrity.

Consider a hair dresser, a doctor or the teacher. They can all take extra

training to make themselves better at their " chosen " profession. My

hair stylist flys to L.A. for a yearly class--out of pocket. She says if she

keeps up with trends and sharpen her skills, she keeps advancing and is a top

stylist in her salon (a rating system) She also says the salon doesn't have to

force stylists to take the classes. The stylists get that the training is

crucial to their personal success as well as the success of a clients hair.

Can't you just tell when you meet someone that loves what they do? You

absolutely don't hear them whining about taking a conference that might spill

over into the weekend. Can't you tell when you meet someone whether or not they

will to rise to the occasion? The good ones want to raise the bar.

They don't whine that they don't work weekends--the shitty ones are doing all

the whining. The good ones are also not whining about taking training to advance

their careers. The good ones, " get it. "

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 8:13 PM, MacAllister <smacalli@...> wrote:

I disagree with you on so many

levels. So, being a good teacher means you go to weekend conferences,

with no pay, and time away from your own family, so you can learn more

about teaching a child with Aspergers? What if you have a child w/

Aspergers, a child with dyslexia, a gifted child, a child of a single mom, a

child of an alcoholic, and kids from 6 different cultures in your

classroom. Would that " good " teacher spend weekends off the

clock to learn more about each of these situations so they can be a better

teacher? I think you are being unrealistic. And being a good

teacher means you teach every child exactly how (you? the parent? the spec

ed dept? the administration?) thinks the child learns best?

I think the original poster was saying

that we, as parents, need to have compassion for teachers and not set

expectations that since they have a teaching certificate, they should know

exactly how to deal/work with our children and every other child in the

class. I agree with her. We are part of the solution. If we

walk into the classroom with a chip on our shoulder and a

" you don't know how to do your job " attitude, school personnel

are not going to want to work with us.

" Over-optimism is waiting for you ship

to come in when you haven't sent one out. "

From: <doyourecycle@...>

Sent: Thu, February 11, 2010 9:52:03 AM

Subject: Re: ( ) A different point of view.

I don't have enough time to express in detail the thoughts I

have on this issue in regards to educators. What I will say is that if someone

chooses to become a teacher/educator, then it is their duty to learn about

their field in whatever form that may take. I heard a renowned autism

speaker talk about educational conferences and how much of his own money he

puts into his career. He used a professional conference as one example. He was

at one that went from Friday to a Saturday, and that 80 % of the

teachers, he said, left on Friday night as they, " weren't going to let

their weekend get eaten up by a teacher's conference. "

He went on to say that he spends his own money for professional

publications and conferences because he wants to be educated in a way that he

is on top of his game and brings his best to the table. The teacher's that balk

about such things, he says, are in the wrong profession. It was so easy to see

that this guy was filled with passion for his work. By comparison, a very large

number of teacher's are in the wrong profession.

Teacher's are also imprinted by principals and administrator's. Many bottom

line principals put new teachers on the wrong track by making the wrong

principles important. When parents are made out to be the enemy instead of a

part of a collaborative team, a parent is really facing an uphill battle where

everyone loses. When principals have autonomy with little to no oversight, then

they can get away with doing the least amount of effort for special ed kids.

When a school board and superintendent don't even acknowledge the needs of

autism or special education, then principals are free to do as little as they

want to. No one will keep them in check. One or two parents complaining will

surely be seen as little annoyances rather than an indication of a bigger

problem.

Keeping special ed kids out of the picture for a minute, we all realize, I

think, that not all kids learn the same way. A good teacher recognizes this and

is prepared for it. (With my first nt, I had my share of teacher's who never

really reached for mediocrity and it was painfully clear they didn't care)

When you consider special ed kids in the mix, then I believe these are the kids

that put a teacher's calling to the test. They are another form of, " not

all kids learn the same way. " Granted, I'm not saying that teaching won't

be difficult, but if a teacher won't even make the attempt to teach to a child

in a way that they learn, then all is lost and that teacher should get another

job.

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:24 AM,

baneline1 <baneline1msn (DOT)

com> wrote:

Not every teacher we have had has been good. Last

year was really pretty bad. I take responsiblity for that because I was not

being proactive. I don't believe that it is because the teachers are evil I

think it is because they didn't understand. I was trying to express that it is

important for us to remember how much we have had to learn about this

disability and are always learning and to transfer that compassion to the

teachers.

I am aware of the fact that things can change along with different administration

and have been through that. I also know that I have rights under the law and I

am not afraid to remind them of that.

Vickie

>

> Jen,

>

> I have to agree with you, I feel a lot of parents including myself started

> out in their quest for their AS child's education on a positive note, only

> to end up frustrated and disappointed in the school system. I believe

there

> are positive experiences out there like the one Vicki had but they are a

> rare occurrence. I would just caution Vicky, your child still has many

years

> of school left, when there are budget cuts or change in schools the staff

> and programs that where put in place for your child will also change.

>

> Thanks,

> Dawn

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with you there, . I think classroom teachers need to be open to

suggestions but their job isn't special education. I try to think about how I

would feel if I was a teacher. I try to show my appreciation to everyone who

works with because he can be a lot of work. I need the IEP to have things

spelled out so that the classroom teacher doesn't spend her whole day trying to

figure out what to do. has a paraprofessional who works with him 1:1 all

day. The para implements behavior plans and keeps track of homework and pays

attention to interactions so he can jump in and coach if he's being

inappropriate. Our kids need what they need so if a particular classroom

teacher has too many kids like my son or isn't good with special needs kids then

my son needs a different teacher. But I always have compassion for anyone

teaching in a public school. My mother-in-law is a retired teacher. She left

as the paperwork and IEPs were becoming more and more complicated. The district

encouraged a lot of older teachers to retire early by offering benefits pensions

so she decided to retire. So I can see things from her side. She has told me,

regarding the really awful school attended in Texas, " I don't understand

why they don't appreciate how much you're willing to do to help. I had some

students who clearly had some needs we weren't meeting but the parents wouldn't

do anything. "

I try to see things from many perspectives. I am particularly talented in this.

I always seem to see many sides to a story. Pretty much every school has

attended would tell you this except maybe the lousy school where they tried to

blame me and tried to say was emotionally disturbed and pretty much

anything else to take the focus off of their own mistakes. They were rude and

horrible. The special ed " team leader " actually shouted at me in front of .

Not a smart move. I was surprised he didn't go berserk. He must have been

caught up in his own misery at that point. I always tried very hard to be

positive and kind but also direct and assertive. After it was all over I felt a

bit sorry for them because they had to admit they didn't know what they were

doing and ultimately they suffered more than did. provides his own

natural consequences. An excellent squeaky wheel.

Anyway, yes, we do need to try to see things from their perspective and to know

who are the right people to approach when things go wrong. It might be best to

approach special education staff most of the time and to let them deal with the

classroom teachers because that is their job. If you have a question about

homework or academics the classroom teacher is probably the person you'll want

to consult.

Miriam

> >>

> >> Jen,

> >>

> >> I have to agree with you, I feel a lot of parents including myself started

> >> out in their quest for their AS child's education on a positive note, only

> >> to end up frustrated and disappointed in the school system. I believe there

> >> are positive experiences out there like the one Vicki had but they are a

> >> rare occurrence. I would just caution Vicky, your child still has many

years

> >> of school left, when there are budget cuts or change in schools the staff

> >> and programs that where put in place for your child will also change.

> >>

> >> Thanks,

> >> Dawn

> >>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

We are almost there. We need to have special education teachers trained. Our

kids need to be in small classes and have more support. It is within reach. My

daughter is in a special ed school with

kids with reading based disorders and a smaller population

like her (more fragile, sensitive, easy overwhelmed). I don't

know that all the teachers understand her disorder. There are

kids there with tourettes, cerabal palsy etc. But all average

or above intellegence.

It is tax dollars that limits who gets this .

Pam

> > >

> > > Jen,

> > >

> > > I have to agree with you, I feel a lot of parents including myself

> > started

> > > out in their quest for their AS child's education on a positive note,

> > only

> > > to end up frustrated and disappointed in the school system. I believe

> > there

> > > are positive experiences out there like the one Vicki had but they are a

> > > rare occurrence. I would just caution Vicky, your child still has many

> > years

> > > of school left, when there are budget cuts or change in schools the staff

> >

> > > and programs that where put in place for your child will also change.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Dawn

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Vickie. You brought up an interesting point that has made us all

think and it seems like everyone is discussing it in a wonderfully civilized

way. I love being able to come here and get support or share positive things

when they happen and to refine my thinking about everything related to dealing

with my kids and their difficulties.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I was trying to express that it is important for us to remember how much

we

> > > have had to learn about this disability and are always learning and to

> > > transfer that compassion to the teachers.

> > >

> > >

> > > Vicky, this is true, unfortunately in my own experience with this, the

> > > teachers and administrators are not open to receiving this information.

There

> > > are times I hope for that perfect world and everyone involved with my

child

> > > understands his AS. The bottom line, I know I must always advocate for

my

> > > son.

> > >

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Dawn

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I think maybe another way to express how I feel is that I try to treat everyone

the way I want to be treated and ultimately the way I want to be treated.

It's kind of a Golden Rule type of thing. If I want teachers to notice the

positive I also try to notice the positive things they do. I think, for me,

it's almost a temperament thing because I find myself doing it without even

thinking of it and not just in the context of schools and my kids. At the local

walgreens I told one of the staff, " You guys are really fast, I hardly ever have

to wait. It's much better here than where I used to live. I sometimes had to

wait a half hour in the drive-thru. " About six months later I picked up a

prescription inside the store. Before I even got to the window the staff person

from above said, " Oh Hi, Mrs. Banash! " and had my got my RX ready for me so that

by the time I was at the window she was ringing me up! I said, " Wow, do you

remember everyone's name? " She said, " No, I just remember you because you said

we were better than the other walgreens you used to go to. " I get preferential

treatment because I said something nice. They remember that I said something

nice and that makes me feel good so I am more likely to be positive in the

future and ignore mistakes and it goes around and around like that. I'm often

surprised at how big a difference the smallest kindness will make.

I think for the next IEP meeting I'll bring some goodies of some sort. LOL.

Miriam

>

 

> I think Miriam mentioned thanking the good ones with a letter to the

district.  What a necessary thing!!!!!

>  

> The bad ones,,,,the ones that honestly won't budge.......well,,,,,,,,we all

agree on what can happen to them.  

>  

> But the good ones,,,,,if they're good,,,,they'll listen and try. 

So,,,,,,constant communication is necessary....as I'm sure we all know.

[Guest guest]

Some of what you say is true and it's great if you are in a school that is doing a great job and being helpful! I agree that parents can get in a rut and all come complaining down on teachers or school bureaucracies. But I also think they do that for a reason.

When things work, then you see how great the process is "if" it works for your child. What is frustrating is when you are doing all the "right" things and it still doesn't work. Then what? Just like you observed when viewing ADHD from outside in, you felt the kids were just brats who needed a firmer hand. Then when it was your kid who was in need of a dx, it changed your perspective entirely and you suddenly saw that kids who are acting out may have a host of reasons why that have nothing to do with parenting skills or lack thereof.

I've had bad experience and good experiences within the school so I usually don't see it as one or the other (bad guys vs. good guys.) When I hear parents really ripping into a school or teacher, I can see two sides of what is going on. (My parents were teachers and so was my mil!) And of course, I also see a parent who has probably spent a lot of time trying to fix a problem and getting no-where! Who is frustrated beyond belief! So I think it's helpful to consider that as well.

Also, give the parents as much compassion as you do the educators! Parents are not born knowing the IDEA law or even knowing how to be an advocate for their child. It's a very tough time. I personally feel that the educators are trained to know how this works and should be a resource for parents. It does not always happen that way, though. It is just way more complicated than that. I agree that parents need to learn the laws and learn how to be a good advocate. that's a great point!

And of course, finally, I would say that you don't appreciate the bureaucracy involved until it fails your child and you have to "go to bat" against a school system. Then you can really appreciate how well the system works, or doesn't work. (not "you" specifically, just people in general - it's a different side of the fence when you have to fight and argue to get just basic services.)

As for money, do not be quick to dismiss it as the driving force in education. Yes, some teachers are in it for helping kids. That is a fact. But even those teachers do not make the decisions. Yes, school's get funding for educating our kids. But they only really get a percentage of the promised amount from the gov't. Politicians will promise to fund education during election years and then get into office and realize there is no money to fully fund it. So it doesn't happen. And then within that, some administrations cut corners in sped. We just had a school levy not pass in the local school system and they promised to cut a bunch of staff, including a string of sped staff. How does providing for sped students mesh with laying off due to budget cuts? After all, they are being funded specifically for these kids regardless of economic times. But these kids will get less. And services are not based on need except in law, in theory. People all strive for that but what happens when that goal falls short? Some parents have to actually sell their souls to get their kids into appropriate placements. Ideally, it should work better and be more consistent.

Most of my posts are taken as if I am upset or whatever else people are thinking. I am not upset with what you wrote at all. So I hope you don't take this as anything except some observations to add to the discussion. "Food for thought" mostly.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) A different point of view.

I would like to share some thoughts that I have had over the last week or so after reading the posts. I know that there is a lot of frustration toward schools and teachers and I just wanted to provide a different point of view for concideration. This is not meant to upset anyone who is having problems with their child.

When my son started having trouble and getting diagnosed I was completely ignorant to most special needs issues. I will admit that I thought ADHD was an excuse for parents not knowing how to parent. I was a complete snob about it and thought that they were all a bunch of kids that needed a little discipline. Well then my son was diagnosed ADHD and I had to shift my perspective. I had to learn, very quickly what ADHD was really all about. As it turned out my son was not really ADHD it was a symptom of his AS (which is not uncommon for the diagnosis to get tweeked as they get older.)

So I had years to learn first about ADHD and later about PDD's and AS with the help of many different specialists. The Psychologists, Psychiatrist and Neuropsycological testing all helped me to understand why my son does what he does and learn techniques for dealing with them.

I don't understand why as a group of parent that have gone to hell and back again trying to learn about our own children and their disability we are so uncompasionate toward others who don't understand. We come together as parents every day/week to ask each other for help yet we expect the teachers and schools to immediately know what to do. Even if the teachers have had some experience with Autism, Aspergers, PDD, ADHD, ODD or OCD they have never dealt with a child that is just like mine. Because they are all different. That is the nature of how AS affects them.

Furthermore, if you have ever taken time to really talk to any of teachers and administrators you will find that often times they are dealing with a lot of other children and parents beside just YOUR child. Many time they are dealing with parents who refuse to see their child as having any problem at all and just expect the school to handle it.

Then they have the laws to deal with. The school can't just decide to treat your child different because they see a need. Have you ever sat down and read the Federal or State laws or the school district policy. It is just like running a business everything must be documented and all children must be held to the same rules unless they have been placed into and IEP or Accomodation plan. If they don't dot the i's and cross the t's they can get sued.

Of course the schools must also look at the money part. But, if your child is in special ed they get extra money for that. If you have not done your part to get them in special ed than it is going to cost the district money to provide services and they are not likely to agree. They don't do this because they want to keep the money for themselves. There is a limited pool of money that they have to work with and the aren't going to get more by going out to the "stash" in the back.

I believe that there are some very BAD teachers and school districts out there. But there are also some very good ones (I happen to be in one of them). Most are somewhere in between. I believe that most teachers have a good heart and want to help children but they are also just people who make mistakes. Not all of my childrens teachers have been great some have not even been very good. I just try to really help them to learn from my son so they will be better with the next child that comes along with a disability.

I know that this sounds preachy and some of you will be angry after reading it but I really felt compelled to write. If even one person can stop and put yourself in someone elses shoes for a minute maybe we can make progress toward having better schools for every child.

I believe in doing my part of my sons education which is making sure that my son is diagnosed and treated properly. I do this by working with the doctors. I work hard to educate the school district as to my sons disablity and how it affects his education. And I hold the school accountable to follow the law. The law is really on our side if we do our part.

I hope I have not upset anyone to much.

Vickie

[Guest guest]

LOL, the 1%ile isn't that bad. Yes, I've heard things like that at meetings. My dh and I have done talks a number of times to a class of school psychologist wanna be's and I actually will ask here for experiences to use. I could never make up what people say as well as the real life examples. I have one to add - at a recent IEP meeting, I was told that my ds was not eligible. Why not? He's not at or below the 10%ile. I pointed to the test scores and said, "uh, yes he is...look here" to which the school psych said, "Well, that one doesn't count. It only counts if the 10%ile scores are in certain areas." Who comes up with this stuff?! ARGH!

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

Re: ( ) A different point of view.

Hi,

I thought the same as you did until my recent attempt to continue

services for my daughter. She is in a spec ed preschool and they wanted

took all her services away (against the law) despite standardized

testing showing her obvious need and their own observations (aside from

my husband and I). I got everything back after a very hard fight and

based on her evals she needs more.

I felt the same appreciation and was very grateful for their hard work

until they sat in front of me and lied to my face repeatedly and also

told me things like "the 1st percentile on a test isn't that bad." I'm

glad you haven't had trouble getting help for your son. I know some

places are like that. Maybe some day I'll find a place like that.

I know that I'm glad I'm college educated and could teach myself about

AS disorders so I would be able to fight back against their deceptions

here because, since they have a DEGREE in these disorders and continue

to get further education in them regularly at this spec ed school...

they know much more about my daughter's deficits than even I do.

Seriously I'm so glad that you've had a positive experience. Sadly, in

most places, it is those who blindly accept that professionals have

their child's best interests at heart that end up finding out that their

child hasn't gotten the best care or even adequate services for the best

life possible. Right now I can say I'm angry at myself because I was

scammed. I believed that the slps and ots and sped ed teachers were

doing what was best for my daughter and she's just been spinning her

wheels this past year because of lost services that they said she didn't

need, etc. Now I can't get the lost services back and we're going into

kindergarten behind the 8 ball because of it. I met with the head of the

school this morning and got more circle talk. I probably will not be

able to sign the IEP for the summer. It's not enough.

Sorry for the ramble,

Jen

baneline1 wrote:

>

> I would like to share some thoughts that I have had over the last week

> or so after reading the posts. I know that there is a lot of

> frustration toward schools and teachers and I just wanted to provide a

> different point of view for concideration. This is not meant to upset

> anyone who is having problems with their child.

>

> When my son started having trouble and getting diagnosed I was

> completely ignorant to most special needs issues. I will admit that I

> thought ADHD was an excuse for parents not knowing how to parent. I

> was a complete snob about it and thought that they were all a bunch of

> kids that needed a little discipline. Well then my son was diagnosed

> ADHD and I had to shift my perspective. I had to learn, very quickly

> what ADHD was really all about. As it turned out my son was not really

> ADHD it was a symptom of his AS (which is not uncommon for the

> diagnosis to get tweeked as they get older.)

>

> So I had years to learn first about ADHD and later about PDD's and AS

> with the help of many different specialists. The Psychologists,

> Psychiatrist and Neuropsycological testing all helped me to understand

> why my son does what he does and learn techniques for dealing with them.

>

> I don't understand why as a group of parent that have gone to hell and

> back again trying to learn about our own children and their disability

> we are so uncompasionate toward others who don't understand. We come

> together as parents every day/week to ask each other for help yet we

> expect the teachers and schools to immediately know what to do. Even

> if the teachers have had some experience with Autism, Aspergers, PDD,

> ADHD, ODD or OCD they have never dealt with a child that is just like

> mine. Because they are all different. That is the nature of how AS

> affects them.

>

> Furthermore, if you have ever taken time to really talk to any of

> teachers and administrators you will find that often times they are

> dealing with a lot of other children and parents beside just YOUR

> child. Many time they are dealing with parents who refuse to see their

> child as having any problem at all and just expect the school to

> handle it.

>

> Then they have the laws to deal with. The school can't just decide to

> treat your child different because they see a need. Have you ever sat

> down and read the Federal or State laws or the school district policy.

> It is just like running a business everything must be documented and

> all children must be held to the same rules unless they have been

> placed into and IEP or Accomodation plan. If they don't dot the i's

> and cross the t's they can get sued.

>

> Of course the schools must also look at the money part. But, if your

> child is in special ed they get extra money for that. If you have not

> done your part to get them in special ed than it is going to cost the

> district money to provide services and they are not likely to agree.

> They don't do this because they want to keep the money for themselves.

> There is a limited pool of money that they have to work with and the

> aren't going to get more by going out to the "stash" in the back.

>

> I believe that there are some very BAD teachers and school districts

> out there. But there are also some very good ones (I happen to be in

> one of them). Most are somewhere in between. I believe that most

> teachers have a good heart and want to help children but they are also

> just people who make mistakes. Not all of my childrens teachers have

> been great some have not even been very good. I just try to really

> help them to learn from my son so they will be better with the next

> child that comes along with a disability.

>

> I know that this sounds preachy and some of you will be angry after

> reading it but I really felt compelled to write. If even one person

> can stop and put yourself in someone elses shoes for a minute maybe we

> can make progress toward having better schools for every child.

>

> I believe in doing my part of my sons education which is making sure

> that my son is diagnosed and treated properly. I do this by working

> with the doctors. I work hard to educate the school district as to my

> sons disablity and how it affects his education. And I hold the school

> accountable to follow the law. The law is really on our side if we do

> our part.

>

> I hope I have not upset anyone to much.

>

> Vickie

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2679 - Release Date: 02/10/10 07:40:00

>

>

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

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07:40:00

[Guest guest]

That's a good point as well. If the school is giving you a hard time for services, an outside eval can be helpful. Still if you have a school adminstration that is set on denying or delaying services overall, you have your work cut out for you no matter what data you bring to the table.

Regular teachers should be trained to teach the students they have or will have. I don't know how often this does not happen. Teacher training can be part of an IEP as well but how many have this on their child's IEP? I've had some years where we had monthly meetings with the autism consultant to train on various autism issues but also then discussing how my ds needed help specifically as well. Other years, no cooperation or the consultant job was empty.

Some reg. teachers are just wonderful and they naturally adapt and learn to teach kids with special needs while others, I have seen in my own experience, have just spent more time trying to drive the autism out of my kids than teaching them. Then you have teachers who just want to keep things at an even keel and your kid presents a problem. We had one one year that refused to follow the IEP. I had also written a bullet point outline for him before school started that year so he knew what to expect with my ds. Did he read it? I don't know if he did. Or perhaps he considered that annoying and pushy? I don't know.

I wanted him to feel free to call or email me anytime - big or small problems. The teacher the year before was so great and so easy to work with. So this was such a let down....If he had used me as a resource, chances are I could help him figure ways to manage problems just because I knew how my ds worked on the inside. He never did. He did everything wrong. He was a very sarcastic guy, which most of the kids loved but which was a total mystery to my kid! lol.

I could not have tried harder as a parent to get along and work with this guy!! The sped director had to come in and line him out - force him to follow the IEP. But by then you have a teacher who is not happy with you and a bad relationship. What a long year! They ended up shoving a lot of the work off to the sped staff since the teacher would not even try that year. It was a horrible year in so many ways but the teacher was the central force in the process and just ruined a lot of things because of it.

Well, other years I have had teachers go out of their way to include my ds. But when it doesn't work out - it's the worst.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

Re: ( ) A different point of view.

I don't disagree with you . I was more thinking of regular education teachers not knowing and understanding the complexities of AS. I expect the special ed teachers and administrators to follow the law and I have not been afraid to check up on them and insist that they do everything by the book. This has not been a big problem for me lately but I had a few problems when my son was much younger. It was (in my case) not an attempt to cheat but a case where the teacher and principle were not on the same page as the special ed department and were not following the IEP. I brought this to the attention of the principle and from that point on they followed the IEP.

What concerns me is that sometimes parents don't do their part to get their child evaluated and into the special ed program but they still expect the school and teacher to make accomodations. The school will usually put in only equal or (more likely) less effort than the parents.

I also do not think that parents should rely on the school to evaluate and/or diagnose their child. The school is only going to look at how a disability affects them in their education. If they have motor skills problems but it is not causing any deficiencies in their school work than it is not the schools reponsibility to treat that problem. If you are working with doctors as well as the school you have an outside opinion to show the school if they question what you are asking for.

Vickie

> >

> > I would like to share some thoughts that I have had over the last week

> > or so after reading the posts. I know that there is a lot of

> > frustration toward schools and teachers and I just wanted to provide a

> > different point of view for concideration. This is not meant to upset

> > anyone who is having problems with their child.

> >

> > When my son started having trouble and getting diagnosed I was

> > completely ignorant to most special needs issues. I will admit that I

> > thought ADHD was an excuse for parents not knowing how to parent. I

> > was a complete snob about it and thought that they were all a bunch of

> > kids that needed a little discipline. Well then my son was diagnosed

> > ADHD and I had to shift my perspective. I had to learn, very quickly

> > what ADHD was really all about. As it turned out my son was not really

> > ADHD it was a symptom of his AS (which is not uncommon for the

> > diagnosis to get tweeked as they get older.)

> >

> > So I had years to learn first about ADHD and later about PDD's and AS

> > with the help of many different specialists. The Psychologists,

> > Psychiatrist and Neuropsycological testing all helped me to understand

> > why my son does what he does and learn techniques for dealing with them.

> >

> > I don't understand why as a group of parent that have gone to hell and

> > back again trying to learn about our own children and their disability

> > we are so uncompasionate toward others who don't understand. We come

> > together as parents every day/week to ask each other for help yet we

> > expect the teachers and schools to immediately know what to do. Even

> > if the teachers have had some experience with Autism, Aspergers, PDD,

> > ADHD, ODD or OCD they have never dealt with a child that is just like

> > mine. Because they are all different. That is the nature of how AS

> > affects them.

> >

> > Furthermore, if you have ever taken time to really talk to any of

> > teachers and administrators you will find that often times they are

> > dealing with a lot of other children and parents beside just YOUR

> > child. Many time they are dealing with parents who refuse to see their

> > child as having any problem at all and just expect the school to

> > handle it.

> >

> > Then they have the laws to deal with. The school can't just decide to

> > treat your child different because they see a need. Have you ever sat

> > down and read the Federal or State laws or the school district policy.

> > It is just like running a business everything must be documented and

> > all children must be held to the same rules unless they have been

> > placed into and IEP or Accomodation plan. If they don't dot the i's

> > and cross the t's they can get sued.

> >

> > Of course the schools must also look at the money part. But, if your

> > child is in special ed they get extra money for that. If you have not

> > done your part to get them in special ed than it is going to cost the

> > district money to provide services and they are not likely to agree.

> > They don't do this because they want to keep the money for themselves.

> > There is a limited pool of money that they have to work with and the

> > aren't going to get more by going out to the "stash" in the back.

> >

> > I believe that there are some very BAD teachers and school districts

> > out there. But there are also some very good ones (I happen to be in

> > one of them). Most are somewhere in between. I believe that most

> > teachers have a good heart and want to help children but they are also

> > just people who make mistakes. Not all of my childrens teachers have

> > been great some have not even been very good. I just try to really

> > help them to learn from my son so they will be better with the next

> > child that comes along with a disability.

> >

> > I know that this sounds preachy and some of you will be angry after

> > reading it but I really felt compelled to write. If even one person

> > can stop and put yourself in someone elses shoes for a minute maybe we

> > can make progress toward having better schools for every child.

> >

> > I believe in doing my part of my sons education which is making sure

> > that my son is diagnosed and treated properly. I do this by working

> > with the doctors. I work hard to educate the school district as to my

> > sons disablity and how it affects his education. And I hold the school

> > accountable to follow the law. The law is really on our side if we do

> > our part.

> >

> > I hope I have not upset anyone to much.

> >

> > Vickie

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> >

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> > Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2679 - Release Date: 02/10/10 07:40:00

> >

> >

>

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2679 - Release Date: 02/10/10 07:40:00

>

[Guest guest]

Miriam, great idea to write letters! I have done this as well. One teacher came up to me several years later at a school open house and said she keeps the letter I wrote in her drawer and refers to it on bad days. I agree, when you can't afford a gift for everyone, a letter of appreciate sent to the higher ups is even better or in addition to gifts.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

Re: ( ) A different point of view.

I always try to assume that people are doing their best to understand unless I'm given evidence otherwise. There are some people who will be completely nasty and unwilling to learn and if I encounter it I avoid the person or refuse to put up with it. We had a person working with my son in land, she was kind of like an aide or paraprofessional helping with the kids in an early childhood program. liked her but she came to me one day and said in a really smart-assed tone, "If he was my child I'd..." then she gestured smacking him. She didn't actually hit him, but I did NOT want anyone with that attitude working with my child. I let the school know this was completely unacceptable. She was working with children who have disabilities, they all had IEPs and they had REASONS for their behavior and for some reason she felt that my child needed to be hit by someone. I normally give people the benefit of the doubt but this was just so WRONG! What cou

ld I do, sit back and ignore it? She was obviously unwilling to accept my child's diagnosis. To her it wasn't anything that couldn't be solved by a good spanking.

Yes, I believe in kindness and in educating people around my son and having compassion for what they go through. I make sure I show my appreciation to everyone who works with . Last year at the end of the year I couldn't afford to buy something for every single person who worked with . He has a 1:1 person and an OT and an ST and two classroom teachers and a special ed teacher and a facilitator and a very involved guidance counselor. Money just couldn't express even if it was only one person. So, I wrote a letter naming names and sent it to the principal of the school as well as the superintendent of schools for the district. It took me a couple of hours to get the letter just right. I wanted the people responsible for paying salaries to know what a great job these people did. People don't often write positive letters to the district. I sent my letter in the form of an email and followed it up with an actual hard copy because I wanted to be DAMN sure people un

derstood me.

I want people to catch my son being good. I also like to catch other people being good. It is much more effective to say something nice and ignore as much bad stuff as possible than it is to focus on negative. If I have to say something bad I try to sandwich it between positive things. They are human beings, afterall. Catching people doing the right things has it's own rewards since the right behavior increases. Everyone wins.

I tried to do these things at the school in Texas that was so terrible but they didn't agree that needed help. They were unwilling to do ANYTHING needed. There was no good behavior to reward for a long time. If a teacher/school/therapist gives anything of themselves at all them I'm on top of it saying that I noticed and that I appreciate it. I name names and I give specific details. I remember all the details, I really do.

This year 's guidance counselor said exactly the right thing when it was needed. was having a meltdown lying down in the hallway and crying. He's in middle school. It's just not DONE in middle school. The guidance counselor said, ", I really want to help you, but I don't know you very well so why don't you come to my office and tell me about yourself?" It was PERFECT. This moment is in my head, I've told lots of people about it already. It will be in my letter at the end of the year along with other moments of greatness. Mistakes, as long as they were short term and dealt with appropriately, will not be in the letter. The fact that someone lost 's midterm and he had to do it over this week will not be in the letter because there is no telling how it happened and I know everyone is working hard and it's really SMALL and not the least bit significant in my opinion. It doesn't happen all the time and everyone was genuinely contrite and there was a sub that day and that could have caused confusion. It's not worthy of any more attention. The fact that the 1:1 support guy comes in early 2 days a week without extra pay to help get to math tutoring is MUCH more worthy of note.

There is a balance that is needed. Constructive exchange of information when things go wrong. Para - "Is 's midterm at home?" Me - "No, I was pretty sure I put it in the notebook." Para - "Maybe because there was a sub things got a bit confused yesterday. I'll make another copy. will have to do it again but I'll make sure I give him some extra materials to help him." Me - "I feel frustrated that it was lost. I've clipped the re-done midterm with several paperclips into the social studies pocket in 's binder." Para - "Sorry about all this confusion." "Oh well, it wasn't too bad for to re-do it. It didn't take much time. I had him type up the timeline on his computer."

That's how I work with the people at school. I don't ignore problems and I do let people know what's happening but I don't panic. I make a judgement call for each situation about how important a thing is, whether or not it's been repeated or if it's just a one time thing, what previous responses have been and how bad the adults involved feel about mistakes. I think about how quickly I get a response.

I was positive for AGES before I finally had to accept that the school in Texas was screwing up big time. I gave credit where it was due and was as positive as anyone could have been but ultimately I had to advocate for my child.

Miriam

>

>

>

> I was trying to express that it is important for us to remember how much we

> have had to learn about this disability and are always learning and to

> transfer that compassion to the teachers.

>

>

> Vicky, this is true, unfortunately in my own experience with this, the

> teachers and administrators are not open to receiving this information. There

> are times I hope for that perfect world and everyone involved with my child

> understands his AS. The bottom line, I know I must always advocate for my

> son.

>

>

> Thanks,

> Dawn

>

[Guest guest]

Geee Roxana, I'm sorry to read you believe your posts are interpreted as if you're upset... Speaking for myself, I never take your posts as anything but very thoughtful. I appreciate and share most of your views, and always look forward to reading them. Thanks for your courage in sharing! Kate

From: Roxanna <MadIdeas@...>Subject: Re: ( ) A different point of view. Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 10:12 AM

Some of what you say is true and it's great if you are in a school that is doing a great job and being helpful! I agree that parents can get in a rut and all come complaining down on teachers or school bureaucracies. But I also think they do that for a reason. When things work, then you see how great the process is "if" it works for your child. What is frustrating is when you are doing all the "right" things and it still doesn't work. Then what? Just like you observed when viewing ADHD from outside in, you felt the kids were just brats who needed a firmer hand. Then when it was your kid who was in need of a dx, it changed your perspective entirely and you suddenly saw that kids who are acting out may have a host of reasons why that have nothing to do with parenting skills or lack thereof. I've had bad experience and good experiences

within the school so I usually don't see it as one or the other (bad guys vs. good guys.) When I hear parents really ripping into a school or teacher, I can see two sides of what is going on. (My parents were teachers and so was my mil!) And of course, I also see a parent who has probably spent a lot of time trying to fix a problem and getting no-where! Who is frustrated beyond belief! So I think it's helpful to consider that as well. Also, give the parents as much compassion as you do the educators! Parents are not born knowing the IDEA law or even knowing how to be an advocate for their child. It's a very tough time. I personally feel that the educators are trained to know how this works and should be a resource for parents. It does not always happen that way, though. It is just way more complicated than that. I agree that parents need to learn the laws and learn how to be a

good advocate. that's a great point! And of course, finally, I would say that you don't appreciate the bureaucracy involved until it fails your child and you have to "go to bat" against a school system. Then you can really appreciate how well the system works, or doesn't work. (not "you" specifically, just people in general - it's a different side of the fence when you have to fight and argue to get just basic services.) As for money, do not be quick to dismiss it as the driving force in education. Yes, some teachers are in it for helping kids. That is a fact. But even those teachers do not make the decisions. Yes, school's get funding for educating our kids. But they only really get a percentage of the promised amount from the gov't. Politicians will promise to fund education during election years and then get into office and realize there is no money to fully fund

it. So it doesn't happen. And then within that, some administrations cut corners in sped. We just had a school levy not pass in the local school system and they promised to cut a bunch of staff, including a string of sped staff. How does providing for sped students mesh with laying off due to budget cuts? After all, they are being funded specifically for these kids regardless of economic times. But these kids will get less. And services are not based on need except in law, in theory. People all strive for that but what happens when that goal falls short? Some parents have to actually sell their souls to get their kids into appropriate placements. Ideally, it should work better and be more consistent. Most of my posts are taken as if I am upset or whatever else people are thinking. I am not upset with what you wrote at all. So I hope you don't take this as anything

except some observations to add to the discussion. "Food for thought" mostly.

Roxanna"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) A different point of view.

I would like to share some thoughts that I have had over the last week or so after reading the posts. I know that there is a lot of frustration toward schools and teachers and I just wanted to provide a different point of view for concideration. This is not meant to upset anyone who is having problems with their child.When my son started having trouble and getting diagnosed I was completely ignorant to most special needs issues. I will admit that I thought ADHD was an excuse for parents not knowing how to parent. I was a complete snob about it and thought that they were all a bunch of kids that needed a little discipline. Well then my son was diagnosed ADHD and I had to shift my perspective. I had to learn, very quickly what ADHD was really all about. As it turned out my son was not really ADHD it was a symptom of his AS (which is not uncommon for the diagnosis to get tweeked as they get older.)So I had years to learn first about

ADHD and later about PDD's and AS with the help of many different specialists. The Psychologists, Psychiatrist and Neuropsycological testing all helped me to understand why my son does what he does and learn techniques for dealing with them.I don't understand why as a group of parent that have gone to hell and back again trying to learn about our own children and their disability we are so uncompasionate toward others who don't understand. We come together as parents every day/week to ask each other for help yet we expect the teachers and schools to immediately know what to do. Even if the teachers have had some experience with Autism, Aspergers, PDD, ADHD, ODD or OCD they have never dealt with a child that is just like mine. Because they are all different. That is the nature of how AS affects them.Furthermore, if you have ever taken time to really talk to any of teachers and administrators you will find that often times they are dealing

with a lot of other children and parents beside just YOUR child. Many time they are dealing with parents who refuse to see their child as having any problem at all and just expect the school to handle it.Then they have the laws to deal with. The school can't just decide to treat your child different because they see a need. Have you ever sat down and read the Federal or State laws or the school district policy. It is just like running a business everything must be documented and all children must be held to the same rules unless they have been placed into and IEP or Accomodation plan. If they don't dot the i's and cross the t's they can get sued. Of course the schools must also look at the money part. But, if your child is in special ed they get extra money for that. If you have not done your part to get them in special ed than it is going to cost the district money to provide services and they are not likely to agree. They don't do this

because they want to keep the money for themselves. There is a limited pool of money that they have to work with and the aren't going to get more by going out to the "stash" in the back.I believe that there are some very BAD teachers and school districts out there. But there are also some very good ones (I happen to be in one of them). Most are somewhere in between. I believe that most teachers have a good heart and want to help children but they are also just people who make mistakes. Not all of my childrens teachers have been great some have not even been very good. I just try to really help them to learn from my son so they will be better with the next child that comes along with a disability. I know that this sounds preachy and some of you will be angry after reading it but I really felt compelled to write. If even one person can stop and put yourself in someone elses shoes for a minute maybe we can make progress toward having better

schools for every child.I believe in doing my part of my sons education which is making sure that my son is diagnosed and treated properly. I do this by working with the doctors. I work hard to educate the school district as to my sons disablity and how it affects his education. And I hold the school accountable to follow the law. The law is really on our side if we do our part.I hope I have not upset anyone to much.Vickie

[Guest guest]

Here's another warning about believing in public school professionals

to tell you exactly what is going w/your child. It's Florida again.

My friend helps in the pre-K speced in this area. She told me last

year the teacher retired, and she was replaced with a regular teacher, not a

speced teacher, because the principal " felt sorry "

for her to not have a job due to cuts due to " budget cuts " .

She gives her evaluation of the child to ALL the specialists, and

my friend holds her tongue (she has an asperger child)cause this

teacher is her boss.

The LD wanted to evaluate NOW, and the teacher said, well I think he's doing OK,

so the LD is putting it off! She is young and ignorant

of autism. She thinks stimming is " being a normal squirmy child! " She

has no children.

I want to go to the school board and ask them to investigate,

but I do not want my friend fired as it would be suspicious of

her. But it's nine autistic children in there!!! There are

speced teachers out there who want to work. It hurts my heart

so badly to know about this situation.

I am weighing the pros/cons. I will ask my friend if I can

anonymously report this. Meanwhile, the parents are trusting that

their child is in the hands of a capable speced professional.

Setting them back, much? Saving the school money, much?

While the superintendent last year got, and kept, a humongous raise, the

teachers got......no bonuses, no job security.

LJ

> >

> > I would like to share some thoughts that I have had over the last week

> > or so after reading the posts. I know that there is a lot of

> > frustration toward schools and teachers and I just wanted to provide a

> > different point of view for concideration. This is not meant to upset

> > anyone who is having problems with their child.

> >

> > When my son started having trouble and getting diagnosed I was

> > completely ignorant to most special needs issues. I will admit that I

> > thought ADHD was an excuse for parents not knowing how to parent. I

> > was a complete snob about it and thought that they were all a bunch of

> > kids that needed a little discipline. Well then my son was diagnosed

> > ADHD and I had to shift my perspective. I had to learn, very quickly

> > what ADHD was really all about. As it turned out my son was not really

> > ADHD it was a symptom of his AS (which is not uncommon for the

> > diagnosis to get tweeked as they get older.)

> >

> > So I had years to learn first about ADHD and later about PDD's and AS

> > with the help of many different specialists. The Psychologists,

> > Psychiatrist and Neuropsycological testing all helped me to understand

> > why my son does what he does and learn techniques for dealing with them.

> >

> > I don't understand why as a group of parent that have gone to hell and

> > back again trying to learn about our own children and their disability

> > we are so uncompasionate toward others who don't understand. We come

> > together as parents every day/week to ask each other for help yet we

> > expect the teachers and schools to immediately know what to do. Even

> > if the teachers have had some experience with Autism, Aspergers, PDD,

> > ADHD, ODD or OCD they have never dealt with a child that is just like

> > mine. Because they are all different. That is the nature of how AS

> > affects them.

> >

> > Furthermore, if you have ever taken time to really talk to any of

> > teachers and administrators you will find that often times they are

> > dealing with a lot of other children and parents beside just YOUR

> > child. Many time they are dealing with parents who refuse to see their

> > child as having any problem at all and just expect the school to

> > handle it.

> >

> > Then they have the laws to deal with. The school can't just decide to

> > treat your child different because they see a need. Have you ever sat

> > down and read the Federal or State laws or the school district policy.

> > It is just like running a business everything must be documented and

> > all children must be held to the same rules unless they have been

> > placed into and IEP or Accomodation plan. If they don't dot the i's

> > and cross the t's they can get sued.

> >

> > Of course the schools must also look at the money part. But, if your

> > child is in special ed they get extra money for that. If you have not

> > done your part to get them in special ed than it is going to cost the

> > district money to provide services and they are not likely to agree.

> > They don't do this because they want to keep the money for themselves.

> > There is a limited pool of money that they have to work with and the

> > aren't going to get more by going out to the " stash " in the back.

> >

> > I believe that there are some very BAD teachers and school districts

> > out there. But there are also some very good ones (I happen to be in

> > one of them). Most are somewhere in between. I believe that most

> > teachers have a good heart and want to help children but they are also

> > just people who make mistakes. Not all of my childrens teachers have

> > been great some have not even been very good. I just try to really

> > help them to learn from my son so they will be better with the next

> > child that comes along with a disability.

> >

> > I know that this sounds preachy and some of you will be angry after

> > reading it but I really felt compelled to write. If even one person

> > can stop and put yourself in someone elses shoes for a minute maybe we

> > can make progress toward having better schools for every child.

> >

> > I believe in doing my part of my sons education which is making sure

> > that my son is diagnosed and treated properly. I do this by working

> > with the doctors. I work hard to educate the school district as to my

> > sons disablity and how it affects his education. And I hold the school

> > accountable to follow the law. The law is really on our side if we do

> > our part.

> >

> > I hope I have not upset anyone to much.

> >

> > Vickie

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> >

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> > Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2679 - Release Date: 02/10/10

07:40:00

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2679 - Release Date: 02/10/10

> 07:40:00

>

[Guest guest]

Really interesting, . I would also add to that the problem of having rules and regs in place but those may often be just words on paper and not real life implemented actions. I found a lot of that within school systems. For examples, having policies in place for specific situations but then not using those policies when the need arises. I actually ended up taking my one ds out of school when this problem smacked me in the face in a big way. But it is another way that the system does not work at times. Some schools may enforce and believe in these policies. Others may feel it is just enough to have them written down so that they pass inspection but do not put any of it into practice.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

Re: ( ) A different point of view.

I don't have enough time to express in detail the thoughts I have on this issue in regards to educators. What I will say is that if someone chooses to become a teacher/educator, then it is their duty to learn about their field in whatever form that may take. I heard a renowned autism speaker talk about educational conferences and how much of his own money he puts into his career. He used a professional conference as one example. He was at one that went from Friday to a Saturday, and that 80 % of the teachers, he said, left on Friday night as they, "weren't going to let their weekend get eaten up by a teacher's conference."

He went on to say that he spends his own money for professional publications and conferences because he wants to be educated in a way that he is on top of his game and brings his best to the table. The teacher's that balk about such things, he says, are in the wrong profession. It was so easy to see that this guy was filled with passion for his work. By comparison, a very large number of teacher's are in the wrong profession.

Teacher's are also imprinted by principals and administrator's. Many bottom line principals put new teachers on the wrong track by making the wrong principles important. When parents are made out to be the enemy instead of a part of a collaborative team, a parent is really facing an uphill battle where everyone loses. When principals have autonomy with little to no oversight, then they can get away with doing the least amount of effort for special ed kids. When a school board and superintendent don't even acknowledge the needs of autism or special education, then principals are free to do as little as they want to. No one will keep them in check. One or two parents complaining will surely be seen as little annoyances rather than an indication of a bigger problem.

Keeping special ed kids out of the picture for a minute, we all realize, I think, that not all kids learn the same way. A good teacher recognizes this and is prepared for it. (With my first nt, I had my share of teacher's who never really reached for mediocrity and it was painfully clear they didn't care)

When you consider special ed kids in the mix, then I believe these are the kids that put a teacher's calling to the test. They are another form of, "not all kids learn the same way." Granted, I'm not saying that teaching won't be difficult, but if a teacher won't even make the attempt to teach to a child in a way that they learn, then all is lost and that teacher should get another job.

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:24 AM, baneline1 <baneline1msn> wrote:

Not every teacher we have had has been good. Last year was really pretty bad. I take responsiblity for that because I was not being proactive. I don't believe that it is because the teachers are evil I think it is because they didn't understand. I was trying to express that it is important for us to remember how much we have had to learn about this disability and are always learning and to transfer that compassion to the teachers.

I am aware of the fact that things can change along with different administration and have been through that. I also know that I have rights under the law and I am not afraid to remind them of that.

Vickie

>

> Jen,

>

> I have to agree with you, I feel a lot of parents including myself started

> out in their quest for their AS child's education on a positive note, only

> to end up frustrated and disappointed in the school system. I believe there

> are positive experiences out there like the one Vicki had but they are a

> rare occurrence. I would just caution Vicky, your child still has many years

> of school left, when there are budget cuts or change in schools the staff

> and programs that where put in place for your child will also change.

>

> Thanks,

> Dawn

>

[Guest guest]

I think it would be a good idea for teachers to learn a variety of ways to teach overall. It isn't so much that they need to micro-specialize in all different disabilities so much as they need to learn the different ways of learning and how to teach to that. I think that cuts the field of learning down for them to look at it that way.

My youngest ds once had a teacher who was so awesome at this. She often had different activities on the same lesson to meet the needs of different learners. It was just awesome to see how she put things together. She was very organized as well, obviously. I spent a lot of time helping out in her class so I was often given the job of leading small groups and she always had different activities prepared based on needs of smaller groups of kids. It was like, "This is the goal of the lesson, these are various ways of teaching this goal." I was mostly there for math stuff and she would have harder and easier problems based on the different needs of students. And then she had them doing various activities that would appeal to not just one mode of learning. I learned a lot just helping her and learned how to adapt on my own after a while just by following her direction. I wish most teachers could do what she can do! lol.

Another experience I had that I just recalled was when my youngest was in pre-k disability class. I also volunteered to help one day per week. I was often given teaching tasks in small groups then as well and it was a lot of fun really. Anyway, one day the other class came over to join in and I had a child in my little group that was not able to participate in the way I was directed to teach them. She wasn't autistic, so I couldn't adapt it with my knowledge of how to deal with autism and I didn't know how she needed to learn, because she was new to me. The aide with her immediately jumped in to help me, and I learned quickly how to change things to include and teach this little girl. It was nice.

But I guess my point to this is that I didn't have to learn her disability to learn a different way to teach that appealed to another level of learning. It's like a lightbulb going off when I realized how to handle it. I think we need more of that kind of teaching for educators - so you can see how to teach a concept in different ways and then you can apply it when needed.

We know so much about learning that I wish we would be able to get that knowledge out there into practice. As with a lot of these things, when you learn to teach to learning problems, it can improve things for a lot of other students as well. So I mean, you can learn how to teach a student with AS in your class but the lessons you learn in modifying your approach may help another few students learn better in your class as well. i.e. it's not wasted information.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

Re: ( ) A different point of view.

I don't have enough time to express in detail the thoughts I have on this issue in regards to educators. What I will say is that if someone chooses to become a teacher/educator, then it is their duty to learn about their field in whatever form that may take. I heard a renowned autism speaker talk about educational conferences and how much of his own money he puts into his career. He used a professional conference as one example. He was at one that went from Friday to a Saturday, and that 80 % of the teachers, he said, left on Friday night as they, "weren't going to let their weekend get eaten up by a teacher's conference." He went on to say

that he spends his own money for professional publications and conferences because he wants to be educated in a way that he is on top of his game and brings his best to the table. The teacher's that balk about such things, he says, are in the wrong profession. It was so easy to see that this guy was filled with passion for his work. By comparison, a very large number of teacher's are in the wrong profession.Teacher's are also imprinted by principals and administrator's. Many bottom line principals put new teachers on the wrong track by making the wrong principles important. When parents are made out to be the enemy instead of a part of a collaborative team, a parent is really facing an uphill battle where everyone loses. When

principals have autonomy with little to no oversight, then they can get away with doing the least amount of effort for special ed kids. When a school board and superintendent don't even acknowledge the needs of autism or special education, then principals are free to do as little as they want to. No one will keep them in check. One or two parents complaining will surely be seen as little annoyances rather than an indication of a bigger problem.Keeping special ed kids out of the picture for a minute, we all realize, I think, that not all kids learn the same way. A good teacher recognizes this and is prepared for it. (With my first nt, I had my share of teacher's who never really reached for mediocrity and it was painfully clear they

didn't care)When you consider special ed kids in the mix, then I believe these are the kids that put a teacher's calling to the test. They are another form of, "not all kids learn the same way." Granted, I'm not saying that teaching won't be difficult, but if a teacher won't even make the attempt to teach to a child in a way that they learn, then all is lost and that teacher should get another job.

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:24 AM, baneline1 <baneline1msn (DOT) com> wrote:

Not every teacher we have had has been good. Last year was really pretty bad. I take responsiblity for that because I was not being proactive. I don't believe that it is because the teachers are evil I think it is because they didn't understand. I was trying to express that it is important for us to remember how much we have had to learn about this disability and are always learning and to transfer that compassion to the teachers.

I am aware of the fact that things can change along with different administration and have been through that. I also know that I have rights under the law and I am not afraid to remind them of that.

Vickie

>

> Jen,

>

> I have to agree with you, I feel a lot of parents including myself started

> out in their quest for their AS child's education on a positive note, only

> to end up frustrated and disappointed in the school system. I believe there

> are positive experiences out there like the one Vicki had but they are a

> rare occurrence. I would just caution Vicky, your child still has many years

> of school left, when there are budget cuts or change in schools the staff

> and programs that where put in place for your child will also change.

>

> Thanks,

> Dawn

>

[Guest guest]

LOL, Robin, you crack me up. But good post! lol...

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

Re: ( ) A different point of view.

I think this whole "thread" and everyone's replies show why, when possible, LEAVING, HOMESCHOOLING, E-SCHOOLING or doing an ONLINE SCHOOL is necessary for our kids sometimes.

We get different type cars at different times of our lives to fit our need. We do this with our homes, food, trips, friends, clothes, doctors, etc.

We all need to see that, perhaps, every situation is different. Heck,,,,even in the same school, different grades are better at serving our kids' needs than others. Ick.

Sometimes, we gotta love and embrace the good service we're getting,,,,,,,but leave when it sucks.

Be sooo glad for those who, for now, are getting what they need......while realizing that most of us don't.

See that in some places, advocating is enough,,,,,but in others, not even a lawyer can make the school do what they legally should.

In those instances,,,,,,leave, I say. Whether it's a different school or wherever.

Don't put up with it.

Yes,,,,,educate yourselves.....of course. But,,,,,,expect teachers to at least listen to the needs of your kid and attempt to help them.

,,,you really hit it on the head. It hurts to hear......for me, anyway. But,,,,,,,it's true. Many families each have specific needs that they deserve to have priority given to....but how in the world do even good teachers do it ALL? Ugh.

I

think Miriam mentioned thanking the good ones with a letter to the district. What a necessary thing!!!!!

The bad ones,,,,the ones that honestly won't budge.......well,,,,,,,,we all agree on what can happen to them.

But the good ones,,,,,if they're good,,,,they'll listen and try. So,,,,,,constant communication is necessary....as I'm sure we all know.

Ugh....

I don't remember what I was started on.....or where I ran off on a tangent......but this is such a charged subject.....and we're all right, ya know?

Hugs to us all.....hee hee.

It really is simple. Just treat others kindly and with respect.

Robin

Not every teacher we have had has been good. Last year was really pretty bad. I take responsiblity for that because I was not being proactive. I don't believe that it is because the teachers are evil I think it is because they didn't understand. I was trying to express that it is important for us to remember how much we have had to learn about this disability and are always learning and to transfer that compassion to the teachers.

I am aware of the fact that things can change along with different administration and have been through that. I also know that I have rights under the law and I am not afraid to remind them of that.

Vickie

>

> Jen,

>

> I have to agree with you, I feel a lot of parents including myself started

> out in their quest for their AS child's education on a positive note, only

> to end up frustrated and disappointed in the school system. I believe there

> are positive experiences out there like the one Vicki had but they are a

> rare occurrence. I would just caution Vicky, your child still has many years

> of school left, when there are budget cuts or change in schools the staff

> and programs that where put in place for your child will also change.

>

> Thanks,

> Dawn

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry I did not read this thread until now. I am so far behind on reading posts, can you all tell? lol. I think you are discussing the problem associated with a bureaucracy. When you have tenure and a gov't run bureaucracy, you are going to have a lot of mediocrity. I think we need a lot of overall reforms in our educational system. It is sad because there are good people within the system who really care and really try. Then you have those who don't and they really bring things down overall.

It is true though that professional development is an idea that applies to a lot of other professions. My own dh is a respiratory therapist and sleep polysomnographist - he has to take so many hours a year from his own time and money to keep his licensing current. It's just the way it works for some professions.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

Re: ( ) A different point of view.

I don't have enough time to express in detail the thoughts I have on this issue in regards to educators. What I will say is that if someone chooses to become a teacher/educator, then it is their duty to learn about their field in whatever form that may take. I heard a renowned autism speaker talk about educational conferences and how much of his own money he puts into his career. He used a professional conference as one example. He was at one that went from Friday to a Saturday, and that 80 % of the teachers, he said, left on Friday night as they, "weren't going to let their weekend get eaten up by a teacher's conference."

He went on to say

that he spends his own money for professional publications and conferences because he wants to be educated in a way that he is on top of his game and brings his best to the table. The teacher's that balk about such things, he says, are in the wrong profession. It was so easy to see that this guy was filled with passion for his work. By comparison, a very large number of teacher's are in the wrong profession.

Teacher's are also imprinted by principals and administrator's. Many bottom line principals put new teachers on the wrong track by making the wrong principles important. When parents are made out to be the enemy instead of a part of a collaborative team, a parent is really facing an uphill battle where everyone loses. When

principals have autonomy with little to no oversight, then they can get away with doing the least amount of effort for special ed kids. When a school board and superintendent don't even acknowledge the needs of autism or special education, then principals are free to do as little as they want to. No one will keep them in check. One or two parents complaining will surely be seen as little annoyances rather than an indication of a bigger problem.

Keeping special ed kids out of the picture for a minute, we all realize, I think, that not all kids learn the same way. A good teacher recognizes this and is prepared for it. (With my first nt, I had my share of teacher's who never really reached for mediocrity and it was painfully clear they

didn't care)When you consider special ed kids in the mix, then I believe these are the kids that put a teacher's calling to the test. They are another form of, "not all kids learn the same way." Granted, I'm not saying that teaching won't be difficult, but if a teacher won't even make the attempt to teach to a child in a way that they learn, then all is lost and that teacher should get another job.

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:24 AM, baneline1 <baneline1msn (DOT) com> wrote:

Not every teacher we have had has been good. Last year was really pretty bad. I take responsiblity for that because I was not being proactive. I don't believe that it is because the teachers are evil I think it is because they didn't understand. I was trying to express that it is important for us to remember how much we have had to learn about this disability and are always learning and to transfer that compassion to the teachers.

I am aware of the fact that things can change along with different administration and have been through that. I also know that I have rights under the law and I am not afraid to remind them of that.

Vickie

>

> Jen,

>

> I have to agree with you, I feel a lot of parents including myself started

> out in their quest for their AS child's education on a positive note, only

> to end up frustrated and disappointed in the school system. I believe there

> are positive experiences out there like the one Vicki had but they are a

> rare occurrence. I would just caution Vicky, your child still has many years

> of school left, when there are budget cuts or change in schools the staff

> and programs that where put in place for your child will also change.

>

> Thanks,

> Dawn

>

[Guest guest]

It's too bad there aren't more options for merit within education and perhaps that would get more interested in doing better. I saw obama even proposed merit pay but I bet it gets slapped down, as it usually is. I don't know if that is the answer overall because there are so many little problems competing for "problem of the moment" depending on your POV. But it is one problem.

I just wrote that my dh has to keep up his professional development on his own time and money. My dh doesn't get to become "head polysomnographer" if he keeps his licensing current. lol But he does get to stay in business and he does get called for problem patients because he knows what he is doing. So I would imagine there is a level of personal satisfaction in knowing your business and being able to help people. But it's his own business too. So he has that incentive to keep him learning as well. My mom is retired now, but used to teach pre-school and later helped the state regulate pre-schools and day care centers. Anyway, she was disappointed the other day when she could not attend a conference on how pre-schooler's learn due to snow. I wouldn't have gone to that - she is retired! But she has a passion for the subject and wants to learn new things still. She spends time volunteering her time at a pre-school (church run) in her area. I guess for some people, the passion is there no matter what.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

Re: ( ) A different point of view.

I don't have enough time to express in detail the thoughts I have on this issue in regards to educators. What I will say is that if someone chooses to become a teacher/educator, then it is their duty to learn about their field in whatever form that may take. I heard a renowned autism speaker talk about educational conferences and how much of his own money he puts into his career. He used a professional conference as one example. He was at one that went from Friday to a Saturday, and that 80 % of the teachers, he said, left on Friday night as they, "weren't going to let their weekend get eaten up by a teacher's conference." He went on to say

that he spends his own money for professional publications and conferences because he wants to be educated in a way that he is on top of his game and brings his best to the table. The teacher's that balk about such things, he says, are in the wrong profession. It was so easy to see that this guy was filled with passion for his work. By comparison, a very large number of teacher's are in the wrong profession.Teacher's are also imprinted by principals and administrator's. Many bottom line principals put new teachers on the wrong track by making the wrong principles important. When parents are made out to be the enemy instead of a part of a collaborative team, a parent is really facing an uphill battle where everyone loses. When

principals have autonomy with little to no oversight, then they can get away with doing the least amount of effort for special ed kids. When a school board and superintendent don't even acknowledge the needs of autism or special education, then principals are free to do as little as they want to. No one will keep them in check. One or two parents complaining will surely be seen as little annoyances rather than an indication of a bigger problem.Keeping special ed kids out of the picture for a minute, we all realize, I think, that not all kids learn the same way. A good teacher recognizes this and is prepared for it. (With my first nt, I had my share of teacher's who never really reached for mediocrity and it was painfully clear they

didn't care)When you consider special ed kids in the mix, then I believe these are the kids that put a teacher's calling to the test. They are another form of, "not all kids learn the same way." Granted, I'm not saying that teaching won't be difficult, but if a teacher won't even make the attempt to teach to a child in a way that they learn, then all is lost and that teacher should get another job.

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:24 AM, baneline1 <baneline1msn (DOT) com> wrote:

Not every teacher we have had has been good. Last year was really pretty bad. I take responsiblity for that because I was not being proactive. I don't believe that it is because the teachers are evil I think it is because they didn't understand. I was trying to express that it is important for us to remember how much we have had to learn about this disability and are always learning and to transfer that compassion to the teachers.

I am aware of the fact that things can change along with different administration and have been through that. I also know that I have rights under the law and I am not afraid to remind them of that.

Vickie

>

> Jen,

>

> I have to agree with you, I feel a lot of parents including myself started

> out in their quest for their AS child's education on a positive note, only

> to end up frustrated and disappointed in the school system. I believe there

> are positive experiences out there like the one Vicki had but they are a

> rare occurrence. I would just caution Vicky, your child still has many years

> of school left, when there are budget cuts or change in schools the staff

> and programs that where put in place for your child will also change.

>

> Thanks,

> Dawn

>

[Guest guest]

Also, teachers are given "in service" days throughout the year for the specific purpose of learning new things and keeping up in the teaching profession. I know our school district usually gives them options of various talks and lectures to go to on those days.

Also, this brings up another interesting thing to think about parents! Do not forget to invite your child's teachers to area conferences on topics that are related to your child's needs. You never know! Once we had Winner come (she came a few times actually) but I let all my ds's teacher's and therapists know she was coming and a group of them actually took off the day at school to attend the conference. It was great to see them there and great that they were learning better ways to work with my kid and kids with his type of problems.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

Re: ( ) A different point of view.

OK, it comes down to, is an educator a "professional" or is it "a

job"? I, as an RN, had to devote much time to continueing education,

it was required, and was not paid for. It was required for my

license. Same goes for other "professions".

You finds ways to do it, its required to continue to work in your

chosen profession.

So, I guess an educator can choose to be a "professional" or to

just consider it "work". If one chooses to consider it "work",

then burnout is usually involved, and a change in "career" is

warrented.

As an RN, I saw both types also. They, too, affected those under

their "power". For better or worse depending on their attitude.

Jo

> >>

> >> Jen,

> >>

> >> I have to agree with you, I feel a lot of parents including myself started

> >> out in their quest for their AS child's education on a positive note, only

> >> to end up frustrated and disappointed in the school system. I believe there

> >> are positive experiences out there like the one Vicki had but they are a

> >> rare occurrence. I would just caution Vicky, your child still has many years

> >> of school left, when there are budget cuts or change in schools the staff

> >> and programs that where put in place for your child will also change.

> >>

> >> Thanks,

> >> Dawn

> >>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Rox, you bring up some good points. You have some good insight, so let me ask you some more things. How would someone in power--say a school board member--proceed in changing the system? What changes need to happen to have a lasting effect? Have you ever considered running for school board?

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Roxanna <MadIdeas@...> wrote:

 

Sorry I did not read this thread until now.  I am so far behind on reading posts, can you all tell?  lol.  I think you are discussing the problem associated with a bureaucracy.  When you have tenure and a gov't run bureaucracy, you are going to have a lot of mediocrity.  I think we need a lot of overall reforms in our educational system. It is sad because there are good people within the system who really care and really try.  Then you have those who don't and they really bring things down overall. 

It is true though that professional development is an idea that applies to a lot of other professions.  My own dh is a respiratory therapist and sleep polysomnographist - he has to take so many hours a year from his own time and money to keep his licensing current.  It's just the way it works for some professions. 

 Roxanna

" The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. " E. Burke

Re: ( ) A different point of view.

 

I don't have enough time to express in detail the thoughts I have on this issue in regards to educators. What I will say is that if someone chooses to become a teacher/educator, then it is their duty to learn about their field in whatever form that may take.  I heard a renowned autism speaker talk about educational conferences and how much of his own money he puts into his career. He used a professional conference as one example. He was at one that went  from Friday to a Saturday, and that 80 % of the teachers, he said, left on Friday night as they, " weren't going to let their weekend get eaten up by a teacher's conference. "

He went on to say 

that he spends his own money for professional publications and conferences because he wants to be educated in a way that he is on top of his game and brings his best to the table. The teacher's that balk about such things, he says, are in the wrong profession. It was so easy to see that this guy was filled with passion for his work. By comparison, a very large number of teacher's are in the wrong profession.

Teacher's are also imprinted by principals and administrator's. Many bottom line principals put new teachers on the wrong track by making the wrong principles important. When parents are made out to be the enemy instead of a part of a collaborative team, a parent is really facing an uphill battle where everyone loses. When

principals have autonomy with little to no oversight, then they can get away with doing the least amount of effort for special ed kids. When a school board and superintendent don't even acknowledge the needs of autism or special education, then principals are free to do as little as they want to. No one will keep them in check. One or two parents complaining will surely be seen as little annoyances rather than an indication of a bigger problem.

Keeping special ed kids out of the picture for a minute, we all realize, I think, that not all kids learn the same way. A good teacher recognizes this and is prepared for it. (With my first nt, I had my share of teacher's who never really reached for mediocrity and it was painfully clear they

didn't care)When you consider special ed kids in the mix, then I believe these are the kids that put a teacher's calling to the test. They are another form of, " not all kids learn the same way. " Granted, I'm not saying that teaching won't be difficult, but if a teacher won't even make the attempt to teach to a child in a way that they learn, then all is lost and that teacher should get another job.

On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:24 AM, baneline1 <baneline1msn (DOT) com> wrote:

 

Not every teacher we have had has been good. Last year was really pretty bad. I take responsiblity for that because I was not being proactive. I don't believe that it is because the teachers are evil I think it is because they didn't understand. I was trying to express that it is important for us to remember how much we have had to learn about this disability and are always learning and to transfer that compassion to the teachers.

I am aware of the fact that things can change along with different administration and have been through that. I also know that I have rights under the law and I am not afraid to remind them of that.

Vickie

>

> Jen,

>

> I have to agree with you, I feel a lot of parents including myself started

> out in their quest for their AS child's education on a positive note, only

> to end up frustrated and disappointed in the school system. I believe there

> are positive experiences out there like the one Vicki had but they are a

> rare occurrence. I would just caution Vicky, your child still has many years

> of school left, when there are budget cuts or change in schools the staff

> and programs that where put in place for your child will also change.

>

> Thanks,

> Dawn

>

[Guest guest]

There is not really much you can do about these things except educate the parents of the students in question.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

Re: ( ) A different point of view.

Here's another warning about believing in public school professionals

to tell you exactly what is going w/your child. It's Florida again.

My friend helps in the pre-K speced in this area. She told me last

year the teacher retired, and she was replaced with a regular teacher, not a speced teacher, because the principal "felt sorry"

for her to not have a job due to cuts due to "budget cuts".

She gives her evaluation of the child to ALL the specialists, and

my friend holds her tongue (she has an asperger child)cause this

teacher is her boss.

The LD wanted to evaluate NOW, and the teacher said, well I think he's doing OK, so the LD is putting it off! She is young and ignorant

of autism. She thinks stimming is "being a normal squirmy child!" She

has no children.

I want to go to the school board and ask them to investigate,

but I do not want my friend fired as it would be suspicious of

her. But it's nine autistic children in there!!! There are

speced teachers out there who want to work. It hurts my heart

so badly to know about this situation.

I am weighing the pros/cons. I will ask my friend if I can

anonymously report this. Meanwhile, the parents are trusting that

their child is in the hands of a capable speced professional.

Setting them back, much? Saving the school money, much?

While the superintendent last year got, and kept, a humongous raise, the teachers got......no bonuses, no job security.

LJ

> >

> > I would like to share some thoughts that I have had over the last week

> > or so after reading the posts. I know that there is a lot of

> > frustration toward schools and teachers and I just wanted to provide a

> > different point of view for concideration. This is not meant to upset

> > anyone who is having problems with their child.

> >

> > When my son started having trouble and getting diagnosed I was

> > completely ignorant to most special needs issues. I will admit that I

> > thought ADHD was an excuse for parents not knowing how to parent. I

> > was a complete snob about it and thought that they were all a bunch of

> > kids that needed a little discipline. Well then my son was diagnosed

> > ADHD and I had to shift my perspective. I had to learn, very quickly

> > what ADHD was really all about. As it turned out my son was not really

> > ADHD it was a symptom of his AS (which is not uncommon for the

> > diagnosis to get tweeked as they get older.)

> >

> > So I had years to learn first about ADHD and later about PDD's and AS

> > with the help of many different specialists. The Psychologists,

> > Psychiatrist and Neuropsycological testing all helped me to understand

> > why my son does what he does and learn techniques for dealing with them.

> >

> > I don't understand why as a group of parent that have gone to hell and

> > back again trying to learn about our own children and their disability

> > we are so uncompasionate toward others who don't understand. We come

> > together as parents every day/week to ask each other for help yet we

> > expect the teachers and schools to immediately know what to do. Even

> > if the teachers have had some experience with Autism, Aspergers, PDD,

> > ADHD, ODD or OCD they have never dealt with a child that is just like

> > mine. Because they are all different. That is the nature of how AS

> > affects them.

> >

> > Furthermore, if you have ever taken time to really talk to any of

> > teachers and administrators you will find that often times they are

> > dealing with a lot of other children and parents beside just YOUR

> > child. Many time they are dealing with parents who refuse to see their

> > child as having any problem at all and just expect the school to

> > handle it.

> >

> > Then they have the laws to deal with. The school can't just decide to

> > treat your child different because they see a need. Have you ever sat

> > down and read the Federal or State laws or the school district policy.

> > It is just like running a business everything must be documented and

> > all children must be held to the same rules unless they have been

> > placed into and IEP or Accomodation plan. If they don't dot the i's

> > and cross the t's they can get sued.

> >

> > Of course the schools must also look at the money part. But, if your

> > child is in special ed they get extra money for that. If you have not

> > done your part to get them in special ed than it is going to cost the

> > district money to provide services and they are not likely to agree.

> > They don't do this because they want to keep the money for themselves.

> > There is a limited pool of money that they have to work with and the

> > aren't going to get more by going out to the "stash" in the back.

> >

> > I believe that there are some very BAD teachers and school districts

> > out there. But there are also some very good ones (I happen to be in

> > one of them). Most are somewhere in between. I believe that most

> > teachers have a good heart and want to help children but they are also

> > just people who make mistakes. Not all of my childrens teachers have

> > been great some have not even been very good. I just try to really

> > help them to learn from my son so they will be better with the next

> > child that comes along with a disability.

> >

> > I know that this sounds preachy and some of you will be angry after

> > reading it but I really felt compelled to write. If even one person

> > can stop and put yourself in someone elses shoes for a minute maybe we

> > can make progress toward having better schools for every child.

> >

> > I believe in doing my part of my sons education which is making sure

> > that my son is diagnosed and treated properly. I do this by working

> > with the doctors. I work hard to educate the school district as to my

> > sons disablity and how it affects his education. And I hold the school

> > accountable to follow the law. The law is really on our side if we do

> > our part.

> >

> > I hope I have not upset anyone to much.

> >

> > Vickie

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> >

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