DIe-off

[Guest guest]

I second the activated charcoal recommendation. Also I have used bentonite clay

and molybdenum with good results.

Luv,

Debby in San , CA

147 pounds lost! 100% of health issues reversed!

Website: http://www.naturallythriving.com

Studying nutrition for 13 years.

Currently pursuing Nutritional Consultant license.

----- Original Message ----

From: Sharon Jerdee

I think you should get some charcoal, That is what I have taken . Sharon

----- Original Message -----

From: <nightjarjack

> When experiencing die-off symptoms, should one use a bowel cleanser such

> as

> psyllium husks or similar?

>

> thanks Jacky

[Guest guest]

thanks

Jacky

[Guest guest]

Edie, your letter gave me thought. I began thinking of a football

game and the whole set-up of game players, cheerleaders and viewing

fans. All belong together in the whole game plan. Then comes a whole

crowd of golfing buddies and they begin protesting that they are not

being allowed to participate with their clubs and hard golf balls.

(candida toxins)

They begin to take over the fields, sidelines and bleachers of fans.

The golfers (candida toxins) are raging throughout the game of

football.

They come in droves to take over the football game and almost drive

out the football participants(that are normal for this field) The

golfers (candida toxins) don't belong and cannot play nicely on a

football field. They mess up the place badly.

Then in comes stronger, hardier football players (nutrition) that

belongs in the field.( our bodies) The cheerleaders (candida group

members) are there cheering. The fans (team players of candida) are

there with more joining.(good nutrients)

What happens to the golfers(candida toxins) That are trying to form a

*club*?

They have to fall out of the game (die-off of candida)

The game is saved (our healthy body functions) and the golfers leave

(die-off) and we go back to a healthy functioning game that belongs

together.

RAh Rah, ree, kick 'em in the knee. (candida)

Rah, rah, rass, kick 'em in the other knee. (candida die-off)

From my cheerleading heart to yours, Mz Violet

>

>

> Hi every one,

>

> This might sound like a silly question, but if candida can't be

killed

> why do we get die-off symptoms?

>

> If the candida is not dying, what is

> causing the symptoms? If this sounds stupid, I'm sorry

> I'm just trying to understand.

>

> Thanks,

> edie

> ______________________

>

>

>

> EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Hi every one,

>

> This might sound like a silly question, but if candida can't be

killed why do we get die-off symptoms?

>

> If the candida is not dying, what is causing the symptoms? If this

sounds stupid, I'm sorry I'm just trying to understand.

==>Hi Edie. Candida is being killed off for sure, which will happen

on only the diet and supplements (including coconut oil of course but

also because of its other health benefits). Die-off symptoms

describes the healing/detoxifying symptoms that occur when candida or

any other bug gets killed off.

Die-off symptoms are " flu-like " symptoms caused by candida being

killed off in large numbers, releasing its toxins into the system at

one time. These " flu-like " symptoms are a type of healing or

detoxifying reaction, also called Herxheimer reaction, that occurs

within the body when it is trying to deal with the large numbers of

toxins being released.

As the body starts to detoxify it creates flu-like symptoms including

headaches, joint and muscle pain, body aches and pains, sore throat,

sweating, chills, fever, nausea or vomiting, diarrhea, excessive

mucus in the lungs, throat, nose, sinuses, etc., along with other

types of symptoms.

Herxheimer reactions can occur in anyone whenever their body needs to

be cleaned up. One person who suffers chronic candida overgrowth and

has experienced these reactions many times made the remark, " Got my

typical Herx reaction: cold, dizzy, light-headed, faint, can't-really-

think-straight feeling. " Others describe it as a bone-tired or an

ache all over feeling.

These " die-off " symptoms are simply cleansing (detoxing) or healing

reactions caused by the body getting rid of candida toxin and/or

other types of toxins. This causes increased mucus in all mucus

membranes (nose, throat, sinuses, lungs, vagina, intestines, stomach,

etc.), along with muscle and/or joint aches and pains, itching,

rashes and other eruptions of the skin, headaches, digestive

disturbances, etc.

It's like that " bad all over feeling " you experienced during a bout

with the flu. At time you may feel like you have been drugged, with

symptoms similar to a bad hangover. This is because most candida

toxins are alcohol in nature, which will cause hangover-type symptoms.

See this article for more information:

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/help1.php

Bee

[Guest guest]

> Hi every one,

>

> This might sound like a silly question, but if candida can't be

killed why do we get die-off symptoms?

>

> If the candida is not dying, what is causing the symptoms? If this

sounds stupid, I'm sorry I'm just trying to understand.

==>Hi Edie. Candida is being killed off for sure, which will happen

on only the diet and supplements (including coconut oil of course but

also because of its other health benefits). Die-off symptoms

describes the healing/detoxifying symptoms that occur when candida or

any other bug gets killed off.

Hi Bee,

Edie has a good point here which I never thought about. You stated that

candida can't be killed, that one must strengthen the immune system to 'turn

it back to its natural state', but above you are saying that candida IS

being killed off for sure. I am so confused. What am I missing?

a

[Guest guest]

Hi a,

Thank you for asking, I'm also still confussed.

I understand the die-off symptoms but is the candida being killed or not?

or are the symptoms occuring when its turning to good flora?

Please Bee, help us understand.

edie______________________

EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD

@...: kristina.carlton@...: Thu, 12

Jun 2008 09:42:30 -0500Subject: RE: [ ] Re: die-off

> Hi every one,> > This might sound like a silly question, but if candida can't

be killed why do we get die-off symptoms?> > If the candida is not dying, what

is causing the symptoms? If this sounds stupid, I'm sorry I'm just trying to

understand.==>Hi Edie. Candida is being killed off for sure, which will happen

on only the diet and supplements (including coconut oil of course but also

because of its other health benefits). Die-off symptoms describes the

healing/detoxifying symptoms that occur when candida or any other bug gets

killed off.Hi Bee,Edie has a good point here which I never thought about. You

stated thatcandida can't be killed, that one must strengthen the immune system

to 'turnit back to its natural state', but above you are saying that candida

ISbeing killed off for sure. I am so confused. What am I

missing?a

[Guest guest]

> Hi Bee,

>

> Edie has a good point here which I never thought about. You stated

that candida can't be killed, that one must strengthen the immune

system to 'turn it back to its natural state', but above you are saying

that candida IS being killed off for sure. I am so confused. What am I

missing?

==>Candida can be killed off, but it doesn't mean it has changed back

into a friendly organism yet. It is still the same overgrowing candida

with long feet (tenacles) and it grows in colonies, like a large family.

Hopefully killing it keeps the numbers of candida colonies down, and it

grows less wildly because its food supply is cut off. At some point

when the immune system becomes strong enough so it will revert candida

back to the friendly organism it is supposed to be.

If there was a choice it would be to concentrate only on nutrients

(diet and supplements) and not take any antifungals or probiotics, and

you would still cure candida.

Bee

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

> Hi a,

>

> Thank you for asking, I'm also still confussed.

>

> I understand the die-off symptoms but is the candida being killed or

not?

> or are the symptoms occuring when its turning to good flora?

>

> Please Bee, help us understand.

==>Hi Edie. Please see my reply to a's question that I posted

yesterday.

Bee

[Guest guest]

>

> What about foam in the urine - another sign that someone

> mentioned but again I have seen nothing like this. How can I be sure

> this die-off is exiting my body

I've been having foamy urine on and off for 3 weeks now. It's somewhat

worrying.

[Guest guest]

> >

> > What about foam in the urine - another sign that someone

> > mentioned but again I have seen nothing like this. How can I be

sure

> > this die-off is exiting my body

>

>

> I've been having foamy urine on and off for 3 weeks now. It's somewhat

> worrying.

+++Hi. What is your name? During die-off/detox/healing toxins will be

released in your urine, so it is nothing to be concerned about.

Bee

[Guest guest]

>

> Hey,

> I started my " proper " candida cleanse 2 weeks ago.

> Since then I`m experiencing different symptoms such as sinus headaches,

increased tiredness during the day and even worse early in the evening.

> At night I get now as well cramps in my right leg, with the origin being my

right foot and then moving up my thigh.

> It seems to get worse and last night it was almost impossible to control the

cramps.

> It`s only the right leg that is effected.

> Has anyone experienced this as well and does it sound like it can be related

to the die-off?

> At the moment I`m taking Lactoferrin and coconut oil to treat the candida

infection and a pro-biotic in the morning.

> Maybe I have to cut down on the intake of those products for a while to get

less severe reactions?

+++Hi Matthias. Welcome to our group. You must be following another candida

program, since this program isn't a " proper candida cleanse " since you cannot

cleanse out candida and hope to get well.

The symptoms you are experiencing are die-off symptoms, except your cramps are

related to imbalances in minerals, mainly calcium and magnesium, which must be

taken in equal amounts according to my supplements lists. Also you need the

many minerals found in good water and ocean sea salt per my program.

I don't recommend taking lactoferrin, since this program provides all of the

nutrients needed in order to build up your immune system, so your body will

re-balance all nutrient levels on its own.

Also you need to start with small amounts of unrefined coconut oil and gradually

increase it up to 6 tbsp. per day, which is the main antifungal on this program.

Probiotics are taken as the last step of this program, for very good reasons.

Taking them too soon won't help.

Yes, you will need to correct/change what you are doing. You cannot cure

candida by killing it off or trying to get rid of it. It doesn't work that way.

The only way candida is cured is by building up your immune system with " proper

nutrients " which is according to Nature's Fundamental Laws on health.

Please ensure you read 2 important articles:

1) How to Successfully Overcome Candida

2) Curing Candida, How to Get Started

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/candida/index.php

For encouragement see these many Success Stories by members of this group:

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/success/index.php

The best in health, Bee

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

Is your name Leah?

It sounds like your die-off symptoms are too strong for you. How much coconut

oil are you taking?

Bee is thinking of taking probiotics off her program because she believes that

the body will produce its own probiotics when it is strong enough.

For now, you might just want to back off on the probiotics altogether and

concentrate on the diet and taking care of your little one. The idea is to get

a balance of die-off that you can handle while eating the foods and taking the

supplements Bee recommends.

As far as a timeline goes, it will take 1 month for every year you've been sick

to heal it.

Hope that helps!

>

> Hi Bee and Group,

>

<snip>

> I am taking the probiotics around noon and by the evening I can hardly get out

of bed (with a 9 month baby, it is difficult to be her mommy when I feel this

bad) Would it be better if I took the probiotic in the evening??? I know that

this is a part of my body healing, but it is overwhelming to not have a

" timeline " for this process. Thanks for all your support!!!

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Bee and Group,

>

> Bee, I have now been on your diet for almost 4 weeks. I suffered through the

withdrawl from sugar and the first stages of flu-like die-off since I started

the diet cold turkey. Now, five days ago I started probiotics and like your

website says, I am again experiencing die-off symptoms.

+++Hi Leah. You do not start on probiotics after only 4 weeks on the program,

and doing the diet cold turkey isn't necessary, and also won't help you - you

may have been reading something else, since my candida article does not say you

start probiotics that early.

This is what my article How to Successfully Overcome Candida says:

1) You start on the diet and supplements, including unrefined coconut oil

according to my article " Curing Candida, How to Get Started. "

2) You can add one other antifungal, other than unrefined coconut oil and Pau

D'Arco tea (considered part of the diet), after you are able to take 6

tablespoons of coconut oil per day without getting severe " die-off " symptoms.

Some people need to stay on the diet plus supplements 3 to 6 months before they

can tolerate any additional antifungals.

3) When your " die-off " symptoms have started to subside after taking antifungals

for awhile, you can start taking probiotics. At this point you are doing all 4

Steps at one time, i.e. Diet (Steps 1 & 2), Step 3 Antifungals, and Step 4

Probiotics. You continue doing all 4 Steps until you have completely cured your

candida.

Bee

[Guest guest]

Hi Bee,

I started the diet cold turkey at the advice of a doctor before I found your

website. Since I was already almost 2 weeks in, I decided to not go back and do

it over. I also started the probiotics this early because that is what the

doctor said as well. Thanks for your input and advice...getting me on the right

track!

Leah

[Guest guest]

Thank you !!!

[Guest guest]

Leah,

i know exactly how you feel about not having the energy to get out bed & having

little ones, i have a 18 month old & 5 yr old & its so hard.

>

> Hi Bee and the group,

> I have been on the diet for a Little more then 2 months. Went on this diet

because of the stomach bloating etc.

> Well I am experience very bad time now. Discomfort in the upper

stomach,bloating etc.

> I had my stomach checked,colonoscopy done, sonogram . I do have a little

gastritis and a hernia. MY GI doesn't understand why I am experience discomfort

and pain. He gave me some meds. to take (Ranitidine,Dicyclomine,Lipram) and want

me to have a c-scan.

> I was not this bad before the diet. Today I decided to have some bread with

butter and see how I feel. And guess what I felt better almost immediately.

> Is this a die-off symptoms that I am going through?

> TIA.Rita

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

thank you for your support! it is comforting to know there are others out there

that are going through similar experiences.

[Guest guest]

" I don't care that much about how it works. It just does and that is at

present sufficient for me. "

....true, neither do I, or only casually curious.

But... I think it's worthwhile that all should be aware of WHEN it works and

when it's contra-indicated.

bG

>

> You may be right about what the pulser is doing. I have always assumed it

was die-off. And it was more likely parasites along the spine that were the

problem and not bacteria. My spine felt wiggly and itchy before the pulsing

and that was gone thereafter. It returns in places now and then but not as

distracting as before. I got the pulser because of Bob Beck's advice and wanted

to do the complete protocol. And the pulser seems to help everything everytime

I use it. It would take too long for me to really study and find out as much as

I could about such things so as to make an informed opinion. Your 6 volt

devices are some of the best things I ever ran across and I will always be

grateful for them. A friend called with terrible pain from an infected tooth

root. She was taking antibiotics. I explained the D cell setup to her, she

used it and

> in short order all was well-- pain-wise anyway. So she is thankful as well.

> The spine thing might have been pockets of fluid instead of parasites-I

don't really know. Didn't mean to write a book!! Thanks again, pj

>

[Guest guest]

Hi . Yes, vaginal itching can be a healing reaction. You can also be

retracing, if you have had this in the past. Coconut oil is very healing, so

that is why you are feeling the symptoms that you described. You can lower the

amount of coconut oil a bit if the symptoms are too intense. Healing symptoms,

however, can't be completely avoided.

All the best,

kelly

,

________________________________

 

Hi everybody,

does the vaginal itching be one of die-off symptoms? I have been following the

candida diet since 8 months and I started to take coconut oil two days ago - it

seems to me that my symptoms started to get worse after that (throat pain,

itching, flu symptoms...).

Thank you,

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for the response !

>

> Hi . Yes, vaginal itching can be a healing reaction. You can also be

retracing, if you have had this in the past. Coconut oil is very healing, so

that is why you are feeling the symptoms that you described. You can lower the

amount of coconut oil a bit if the symptoms are too intense. Healing symptoms,

however, can't be completely avoided.

>

> All the best,

> kelly

>

> ,

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>  

> Hi everybody,

>

> does the vaginal itching be one of die-off symptoms? I have been following the

candida diet since 8 months and I started to take coconut oil two days ago - it

seems to me that my symptoms started to get worse after that (throat pain,

itching, flu symptoms...).

> Thank you,

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Miranda,

The dieoff effect is real. Think of it this way: we have overgrowths of

bacteria and other organisms in our gut that shouldn't be there. We have fewer

" healthy gut flora " than we should.

So, when we change our diets, and do things like going on the GAPS diet, we

begin to starve the bad bacteria, etc. The healthy gut flora will then begin to

replace the bad. But the bad first has to die, and sometimes (maybe always????)

releases toxic substances, when it does.

It is supposed to be " gut dysbiosis " which causes our illnesses, or greatly

contributes to them in the first place, right?

I don't know if dying pathogenic gut bacteria release neurotoxins. But I can

tell you I have Lyme disease, and when Lyme dies, it releases neurotoxins. My

symptoms get much worse during Lyme dieoff, before my body clears the toxins.

This is called a " Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction. "

I don't know if dying gut bacteria and fungi, etc., cause " herxes " (or how

serious they might be), but the dieoff effect is definitely real! I think it

may be possible for a Lyme patient to die of a herx -- by overtaxing the liver

and lymphatic channels. I know people who swear they have almost died from Lyme

herxes (or felt like it). It's no doubt unhealthy to flood the body with a large

amount of toxic substances at one time. In the case of Lyme, one can probably

do permanent damage to the body.

Dr. MacBride (and probably other M.D.'s who have developed the

gut-healing diets)provide footnotes in their books. You could probably find

references to studies on dieoff in these M.D.'s books. It would probably be best

to read their material for a definitive answer.

S.

[Guest guest]

I have another question (I was not able to find it the previous posts). What

about yogurts and kefirs made of organic goat milk? Is this tolerated in the

anti-candida diet? I have read on many web pages about the possibility to use

such products in the anti-candida diet. I live in Europe and for me it is not so

difficult to find organic and good quality food in general, including goat milk

products.

Thanks in advance!

> >

> > Hi . Yes, vaginal itching can be a healing reaction. You can also be

retracing, if you have had this in the past. Coconut oil is very healing, so

that is why you are feeling the symptoms that you described. You can lower the

amount of coconut oil a bit if the symptoms are too intense. Healing symptoms,

however, can't be completely avoided.

> >

> > All the best,

> > kelly

> >

> > ,

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> >  

> > Hi everybody,

> >

> > does the vaginal itching be one of die-off symptoms? I have been following

the candida diet since 8 months and I started to take coconut oil two days ago -

it seems to me that my symptoms started to get worse after that (throat pain,

itching, flu symptoms...).

> > Thank you,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Kombucha could be helpful for die-off as it supports the body during detoxification. Drinking purified water or freshly pressed juices for hydration will help flush out toxins.Soaking in an epsom salt bath would be helpful too.I experienced a good deal of die-off too. Mostly tiredness, but also sore throat and nausea. I was very thirsty during this time too which may have been my body's way of encouraging me to drink and flush things out.On May 31, 2010, at 10:00 PM, L. S wrote:

Miranda,

The dieoff effect is real. Think of it this way: we have overgrowths of bacteria and other organisms in our gut that shouldn't be there. We have fewer "healthy gut flora" than we should.

So, when we change our diets, and do things like going on the GAPS diet, we begin to starve the bad bacteria, etc. The healthy gut flora will then begin to replace the bad. But the bad first has to die, and sometimes (maybe always????) releases toxic substances, when it does.

It is supposed to be "gut dysbiosis" which causes our illnesses, or greatly contributes to them in the first place, right?

I don't know if dying pathogenic gut bacteria release neurotoxins. But I can tell you I have Lyme disease, and when Lyme dies, it releases neurotoxins. My symptoms get much worse during Lyme dieoff, before my body clears the toxins. This is called a "Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction."

I don't know if dying gut bacteria and fungi, etc., cause "herxes" (or how serious they might be), but the dieoff effect is definitely real! I think it may be possible for a Lyme patient to die of a herx -- by overtaxing the liver and lymphatic channels. I know people who swear they have almost died from Lyme herxes (or felt like it). It's no doubt unhealthy to flood the body with a large amount of toxic substances at one time. In the case of Lyme, one can probably do permanent damage to the body.

Dr. MacBride (and probably other M.D.'s who have developed the gut-healing diets)provide footnotes in their books. You could probably find references to studies on dieoff in these M.D.'s books. It would probably be best to read their material for a definitive answer.

S.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Yogurt and kefir are not allowed. It doesn't matter what they're made from.

Here is a handy reference list for allowed foods.

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/foodslist.php

Jackie

(group moderator)

>

> I have another question (I was not able to find it the previous posts). What

about yogurts and kefirs made of organic goat milk? Is this tolerated in the

anti-candida diet? I have read on many web pages about the possibility to use

such products in the anti-candida diet. I live in Europe and for me it is not so

difficult to find organic and good quality food in general, including goat milk

products.

> Thanks in advance!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hei ,

as Jackie said: not allowed, I just want to add that this is due to the high

content of milksugar, Butter is the only dairy which is low enough in Sugar to

be allowed...but hei, you have something to look forward to! even when sticking

with the healthy diet you can eat tons of it as soon as you are healed...I am

planning a feast on raw-goat-cheese...yummy...

Best, Tini