Re: told that not enough room in school help group

[Guest guest]

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> Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in a 'friends group' to work on

social skills with the school counselor. She also went to the school speech

therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that she may or may not be able to

continue in the friends group depending on whether there was room enough for

her. I understand that there could be children who have extreme behavioral

issues or something and I gather that then that child would get her spot in the

group. My question is, what about MY daughter? I see the difficulties she has

communicating/working things out with others--especially kids. And she regresses

without support there. Don't they have to provide this kind of service, too?

From my experience, the key to this is proving " need " . If it has been

determined that she has need for social skills training, then it is unlawful for

them to avoid providing it, no matter what the reason. They need to have two

groups instead of one, if the need is there. Either the school has not

officially determined under IDEA that your daughter has this need or they are

breaking the law. Unfortunately, I think all of us that have been advocating

for our kids for awhile have been through this! What worked for me was two

different things.

First, I stopped a lot of this type of stuff by letting them know--in

writing--that I knew the laws. I was not obnoxious or confrontive about it; I

would simply state that such and such was going on and give some examples. I

would write one of the special ed directors an e-mail. I know they know the

laws, so I didn't bother pointing out laws or the fact that they were breaking

them. I would end with the thought that this was unacceptable and I expected

some action. I didn't try to tell them how they should handle it, just that it

should be handled. I think it is important that you give them the space to

solve the problem their own way. This always got results.

Second was making sure the need was recognized by the school officially and

documented. Then you have that to point to. In my case, I had to go get my son

evaluated on my own by an autism specialist. I actually ended up doing this

twice. First a neuropsych eval, then two years later an autism eval. The

second eval was needed to prove that he was " still Asperger " , and both evals

were needed to make sure the school had good input for their school special

ed/504 evals.

You have to remember that, although autism is a permanent medical condition,

schools can say the child's symptoms have dimenished to the point where they

don't meet the educational criteria for autism. Then you have to make sure the

evals get considered appropriately by the school district--either request an IEE

(I did not bother with this) or request it be used as input to an special ed

eval or re-eval. I timed mine so they could be used as parent input to SPED

evals. You can work something out.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

[Guest guest]

Yes, they must provide the services she needs and these should

be in her IEP.  I have never heard of having to “apply” for the counselor’s

services.  Roxanna or someone else should be able to tell you what steps you need

to take to ensure she gets needed services.  My son just graduated from a

private high school that he attended his junior and senior years so I haven’t

had any IEP experience in the last two years.

From:

[mailto: ] On

Behalf Of jmlrgs1870

Sent: July 18, 2009 12:55 PM

Subject: ( ) told that not enough room in school help group

Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in

a 'friends group' to work on social skills with the school counselor. She also

went to the school speech therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that

she may or may not be able to continue in the friends group depending on

whether there was room enough for her. I understand that there could be

children who have extreme behavioral issues or something and I gather that then

that child would get her spot in the group. My question is, what about MY

daughter? I see the difficulties she has communicating/working things out with

others--especially kids. And she regresses without support there. Don't they

have to provide this kind of service, too? I know the school counselor only has

a certain amount of time to offer, but our daughter needs that assistance. I

have to 'apply' for the counselor service each year (the rest of the services

carry over to some extent from year to year). I'm concerned about this coming

school year...how can I assure she gets some kind of help in this area, too?

[Guest guest]

If you have an IEP, then you can write this in as a service and not have to argue for it each year. Do you have an IEP yet?

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) told that not enough room in school help group

Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in a 'friends group' to work on social skills with the school counselor. She also went to the school speech therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that she may or may not be able to continue in the friends group depending on whether there was room enough for her. I understand that there could be children who have extreme behavioral issues or something and I gather that then that child would get her spot in the group. My question is, what about MY daughter? I see the difficulties she has communicating/working things out with others--especially kids. And she regresses without support there. Don't they have to provide this kind of service, too? I know the school counselor only has a certain amount of time to offer, but our daughter needs that assistance. I have to 'apply' for the counselor service each year (the rest of the services carry over to some extent from year to year). I'm concerned about this coming school year...how can I assure she gets some kind of help in this area, too?

An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!

[Guest guest]

We have an IEP (last year and now for this coming year), but the group I met

with said that they cannot (will not??) include time with the school counselor

(who does the friends/social group) in the IEP automatically. We need to reapply

each fall, which delays the starting date even if she is one of the students

permitted to be included in the group. And we were told they couldn't guarantee

that she would be able to be in it the whole school year if someone else is

deemed to need it more than our daughter...she would be dropped from the group

then. I prayed all last year that she wouldn't be dropped and now it appears

I'll need to hold my breath all year again.

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argue for it each year.? Do you have an IEP yet?

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> Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in a 'friends group' to work on

social skills with the school counselor. She also went to the school speech

therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that she may or may not be able to

continue in the friends group depending on whether there was room enough for

her. I understand that there could be children who have extreme behavioral

issues or something and I gather that then that child would get her spot in the

group. My question is, what about MY daughter? I see the difficulties she has

communicating/working things out with others--especially kids. And she regresses

without support there. Don't they have to provide this kind of service, too? I

know the school counselor only has a certain amount of time to offer, but our

daughter needs that assistance. I have to 'apply' for the counselor service each

year (the rest of the services carry over to some extent from year to year). I'm

concerned about this coming school year...how can I assure she gets some kind of

help in this area, too?

>

[Guest guest]

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> We have an IEP (last year and now for this coming year), but the group I met

with said that they cannot (will not??) include time with the school counselor

(who does the friends/social group) in the IEP automatically. We need to reapply

each fall, which delays the starting date even if she is one of the students

permitted to be included in the group. And we were told they couldn't guarantee

that she would be able to be in it the whole school year if someone else is

deemed to need it more than our daughter...she would be dropped from the group

then. I prayed all last year that she wouldn't be dropped and now it appears

I'll need to hold my breath all year again.

This is not lawful. You need to get our your school evaluation and find where

they determined the need for social skills. If it is not there, you need to

call for a re-evaluation and get it put there. If it is there (which it

probably is), call your school district special education office and talk to one

of the directors. Actually, e-mail him/her first, so your complaint is in

writing (write snail-mail if they are behind the times and don't do e-mail).

Let them know the school is doing this, that you are aware it is not acceptable

and ask them to fix it. Your daughter also has the right to more than a friends

group with the general ed counselor. If she has an IEP, she has the right to

special education teachers. She should be getting real social skills training

with someone trained in that area. She should be getting social skills training

integrated into her day as well as having the group sessions.

[Guest guest]

Hmmm if a child is deficit/below average in reading it doesn't

matter how many kids are in the special ed reading program that chld

needs to be there too.

This school has a set budget for social skills and the counselors time and

doesn't want to budge.

But it this lawful?

If your child continues with below average social skills

the service needs to be provided.

Do you have assess to an an advocate/lawyer.

You can request in writing a functional behavioral assessment for

social interactions.

I can look up the legal words our lawyer used in writing a letter

to the school if you like.

It is frustrating to have to keep advocating and can be so expensive too. I

don't know how as a parent group we can get this changed.

It should be changed though.

Pam

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> > Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in a 'friends group' to work on

social skills with the school counselor. She also went to the school speech

therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that she may or may not be able to

continue in the friends group depending on whether there was room enough for

her. I understand that there could be children who have extreme behavioral

issues or something and I gather that then that child would get her spot in the

group. My question is, what about MY daughter? I see the difficulties she has

communicating/working things out with others--especially kids. And she regresses

without support there. Don't they have to provide this kind of service, too? I

know the school counselor only has a certain amount of time to offer, but our

daughter needs that assistance. I have to 'apply' for the counselor service each

year (the rest of the services carry over to some extent from year to year). I'm

concerned about this coming school year...how can I assure she gets some kind of

help in this area, too?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Noooooooo, they are totally wrong. If you have identified this as a need in her IEP, then they need to stop playing the games with you!! One way to stop these things is to find out the law and write letters outlining what you expect. For instance, if this is in her IEP as a service, they need to provide it no matter how many kids need the same service. That is why it is called an "Individual" education plan and not a "group if-we-have-enough-room-she-can-join" plan.

I would contact whoever is in charge of the IEPs (sped director, school psych, principal, whatever your school district does) and get a meeting. Make sure that this service is written in her IEP and if it is not, have it written into her IEP as a need/service. Then I would let them know via a nice letter that you expect her to be in the group, it's in her IEP as a service and it needs to be provided. End of story! There staffing, funding and enrollment is not your problem - it's theirs. If they need to do another group because they have too many kids in need, then that is their problem. You can always offer to let them pay for a private social skill group outside of the school if they cannot provide it at the school. If they still balk or say they won't/can't, then you will have to escalate your reply. But I would start out nice like this. If you already have, then let us know and we can help with the next step!

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

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> Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in a 'friends group' to work on social skills with the school counselor. She also went to the school speech therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that she may or may not be able to continue in the friends group depending on whether there was room enough for her. I understand that there could be children who have extreme behavioral issues or something and I gather that then that child would get her spot in the group. My question is, what about MY daughter? I see the difficulties she has communicating/working things out with others--especially kids. And she regresses without support there. Don't they have to provide this kind of service, too? I know the school counselor only has a certain amount of time to offer, but our daughter needs that assistance. I have to 'apply' for the counselor service each year (the rest of the services carry over to some extent from year to year). I'm concerned about this coming school year...how can I assure she gets some kind of help in this area, too?

>

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[Guest guest]

Roxanna, what if there is only one child...or the social skills group is too childish...they had formed one becaue of my son...but my son wanted nothing to do with it...I think mainly becaue he was way too mature for the kids that were in the group....all the kids wanted to do was play for the tokens...and my son could care less about the tokens. When they asked things like ...what would you do if someone hit your friend...and my son of course gave the wrong answer...he said Punch them...(although I don't think he would ) ...ayyyye...wrong answer....I don't think they knew how to run the class...it seems like it was run for 5 year olds....and my son is 13 3/4 and acts 19 at times...he tries to be so "cool"....wants to be like the older "dudes".

Jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: Roxanna <MadIdeas@...>Subject: Re: ( ) told that not enough room in school help group Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 8:08 PM

Noooooooo, they are totally wrong. If you have identified this as a need in her IEP, then they need to stop playing the games with you!! One way to stop these things is to find out the law and write letters outlining what you expect. For instance, if this is in her IEP as a service, they need to provide it no matter how many kids need the same service. That is why it is called an "Individual" education plan and not a "group if-we-have-enough- room-she- can-join" plan. I would contact whoever is in charge of the IEPs (sped director, school psych, principal, whatever your school district does) and get a meeting. Make sure that this service is written in her IEP and if it is not, have it written into her IEP as a need/service. Then I would let them know via a nice letter that you expect her to be in the group, it's in her IEP as a service and it needs to be

provided. End of story! There staffing, funding and enrollment is not your problem - it's theirs. If they need to do another group because they have too many kids in need, then that is their problem. You can always offer to let them pay for a private social skill group outside of the school if they cannot provide it at the school. If they still balk or say they won't/can't, then you will have to escalate your reply. But I would start out nice like this. If you already have, then let us know and we can help with the next step!

Roxanna"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) told that not enough room in school help group> >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in a 'friends group' to work on social skills with the school counselor. She also went to the school speech therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that she may or may not be able to continue in the friends group depending on whether there was room enough for her. I understand that there could be children who have extreme behavioral issues or something and I gather that then that child would get her spot in the group. My question is, what about MY daughter? I see the difficulties she has communicating/ working things out with others--especially kids. And she regresses without support there. Don't they have to provide this kind of

service, too? I know the school counselor only has a certain amount of time to offer, but our daughter needs that assistance. I have to 'apply' for the counselor service each year (the rest of the services carry over to some extent from year to year). I'm concerned about this coming school year...how can I assure she gets some kind of help in this area, too?>

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[Guest guest]

Janice,

We are having MUCH more luck with social skills at the community college level. My 13 year old HFA son will sit through 9 hour classes on "stress management" and "values and ethics" and "communication in the workplace." He used to hate social skills training at the school/therapist level because although he is incredibly immature, parts of him are very mature. So, we have found that the college classes are working so much better. It is "college" and there are other adults there, acting appropriate and engaging. He loves the classes, and actually uses the techniques a bit. He used to last through about 5 to 10 minutes of this type of stuff years ago, then if dwindled to 0 minutes he could tolerate, then he would flip out if any one even suggested any form of "therapy" Hell, I think I start to cringe when I see or talk to anyone related to autism therapy anymore myself.

( ) told that not enough room in school help group> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in a 'friends group' to work on social skills with the school counselor. She also went to the school speech therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that she may or may not be able to continue in the friends group depending on whether there was room enough for her. I understand that there could be children who have extreme behavioral issues or something and I gather that then that child would get her spot in the group. My question is, what about MY daughter? I see the difficulties she has communicating/ working things out with others--especially kids. And she regresses without support there. Don't they have to provide this kind of service, too? I know the school counselor only has a certain amount of time to offer, but our daughter needs that assistance. I have to 'apply' for the counselor service each year (the rest of the services carry over to some extent from year to year). I'm concerned about this coming school year...how can I assure she gets some kind of help in this area, too?>

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[Guest guest]

Hmmmm, very interesting....does your son take these course as a student or just sits in or what? What are the costs like? I think the stress management would be great! My son doesn't deal with well with stress and he gets angry a lot. We have a college (ESU) down the road from us as well as a community college....wow ...great idea!

Jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: Roxanna <MadIdeasaol (DOT) com>Subject: Re: ( ) told that not enough room in school help group Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 8:08 PM

Noooooooo, they are totally wrong. If you have identified this as a need in her IEP, then they need to stop playing the games with you!! One way to stop these things is to find out the law and write letters outlining what you expect. For instance, if this is in her IEP as a service, they need to provide it no matter how many kids need the same service. That is why it is called an "Individual" education plan and not a "group if-we-have-enough- room-she- can-join" plan. I would contact whoever is in charge of the IEPs (sped director, school psych, principal, whatever your school district does) and get a meeting. Make sure that this service is written in her IEP and if it is not, have it written into her IEP as a need/service. Then I would let them know via a nice letter that you expect her to be in the group, it's in her IEP as a service and it needs to be

provided. End of story! There staffing, funding and enrollment is not your problem - it's theirs. If they need to do another group because they have too many kids in need, then that is their problem. You can always offer to let them pay for a private social skill group outside of the school if they cannot provide it at the school. If they still balk or say they won't/can't, then you will have to escalate your reply. But I would start out nice like this. If you already have, then let us know and we can help with the next step!

Roxanna"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) told that not enough room in school help group> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in a 'friends group' to work on social skills with the school counselor. She also went to the school speech therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that she may or may not be able to continue in the friends group depending on whether there was room enough for her. I understand that there could be children who have extreme behavioral issues or something and I gather that then that child would get her spot in the group. My question is, what about MY daughter? I see the difficulties she has communicating/ working things out with others--especially kids. And she regresses without support there. Don't they have to provide this kind of service, too? I know the school counselor only has a certain amount of time to offer, but our daughter needs

that assistance. I have to 'apply' for the counselor service each year (the rest of the services carry over to some extent from year to year). I'm concerned about this coming school year...how can I assure she gets some kind of help in this area, too?>

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[Guest guest]

Community college. And, through the independent studies program he gets both college credit AND high school credits, which means with every class he is closer and closer to a high school diploma! And, the friends are impressed "wow you are in college" and he knows he has to act socially appropriate. No goofy acting kids to set him off, etc. The cost is minimal and actually since he is in the high school independent studies program and is taking the classes as "high school enrichment" they hardly cost anything at all. We are here in California, so I'm not sure what state you are in or how it works where you are at....

( ) told that not enough room in school help group> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in a 'friends group' to work on social skills with the school counselor. She also went to the school speech therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that she may or may not be able to continue in the friends group depending on whether there was room enough for her. I understand that there could be children who have extreme behavioral issues or something and I gather that then that child would get her spot in the group. My question is, what about MY daughter? I see the difficulties she has communicating/ working things out with others--especially kids. And she regresses without support there. Don't they have to provide this kind of service, too? I know the school counselor only has a certain amount of time to offer, but our daughter needs that assistance. I have to 'apply' for the counselor service each year (the rest of the services carry over to some extent from year to year). I'm concerned about this coming school year...how can I assure she gets some kind of help in this area, too?>

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[Guest guest]

>

> Janice,

> We are having MUCH more luck with social skills at the community college

level. My 13 year old HFA son will sit through 9 hour classes on " stress

management " and " values and ethics " and " communication in the workplace. "

This is a really good idea! I had actually sort of offhandedly thought about

this, because my son is the same way, but never taken any action. Did you have

any problems getting the community college let a 13yo take their courses?

[Guest guest]

This really was a problem with my older ds as well. It was new to have social skills taught at school back then and when they finally did, they used very baby-ish materials, tone, attitude,etc. It was a total turn off to my ds, who eventually refused to participate completely.

I would really push for them to provide appropriate services. If they can't or won't, look around and see if there is not one outside of school that would fit and you can ask them to pay for that instead. The last time I dealt with getting social skill group at school, I asked who was teaching it, what the credentials were and then also, what curriculum it was/what was being taught. I got data on every lesson as well. It can help if they are doing the wrong things to say, "THis is not an appropriate program for my ds's needs." And maybe he needs to be with the ST 1-1 for a while, to learn the basics before he can work in a group? You have options to think about, not just what they are providing. Remember, the service should be appropriate to his special needs. So if it's not, you have to ask for something else, or find it somewhere else at their expense.

I realized a lot of this stuff too late to help with my older ds. I did ask for outside services and got them but by then, my ds was so burned out and refused to participate after too many bad experiences. So I would move sooner rather than later to get appropriate.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

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> Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in a 'friends group' to work on social skills with the school counselor. She also went to the school speech therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that she may or may not be able to continue in the friends group depending on whether there was room enough for her. I understand that there could be children who have extreme behavioral issues or something and I gather that then that child would get her spot in the group. My question is, what about MY daughter? I see the difficulties she has communicating/ working things out with others--especially kids. And she regresses without support there. Don't they have to provide this kind of

service, too? I know the school counselor only has a certain amount of time to offer, but our daughter needs that assistance. I have to 'apply' for the counselor service each year (the rest of the services carry over to some extent from year to year). I'm concerned about this coming school year...how can I assure she gets some kind of help in this area, too?

>

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[Guest guest]

Autism services: My 12 yo ds (hfa) still recounts his first grade teacher, who took a class in autism before school started. Apparently, after the class, she started talking very loudly and holding my ds's face when she spoke to him. He still talks about that and how much he hated it. I am sure it was a "technique" taught to them. ugh.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

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> Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in a 'friends group' to work on social skills with the school counselor. She also went to the school speech therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that she may or may not be able to continue in the friends group depending on whether there was room enough for her. I understand that there could be children who have extreme behavioral issues or something and I gather that then that child would get her spot in the group. My question is, what about MY daughter? I see the difficulties she has communicating/ working things out with others--especially kids. And she regresses without support there. Don't they have to provide this kind of service, too? I know the school counselor only has a certain amount of time to offer, but our daughter needs

that assistance. I have to 'apply' for the counselor service each year (the rest of the services carry over to some extent from year to year). I'm concerned about this coming school year...how can I assure she gets some kind of help in this area, too?

>

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

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[Guest guest]

Hi!

Where in CA are you at? San diego?I have a 14-yr-old DS (HFA). Like all the children mentioned in this group, he stays at home. No socialization outside of home or school. I've suggested him calling a friend from school (social class in high school)and going to movies, etc... His response 'we only talk at school.' Now, due to school budgets, he will not have the social class in high school.

I like the idea of the 'community college' for socialization. I see my son tends to talk to adults in family gatherings. But, in his usual self, he talks out of topic (main interests only). ;-)

Thank you for the info ;-)

From: Roxanna <MadIdeasaol (DOT) com>Subject: Re: ( ) told that not enough room in school help group Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 8:08 PM

Noooooooo, they are totally wrong. If you have identified this as a need in her IEP, then they need to stop playing the games with you!! One way to stop these things is to find out the law and write letters outlining what you expect. For instance, if this is in her IEP as a service, they need to provide it no matter how many kids need the same service. That is why it is called an "Individual" education plan and not a "group if-we-have-enough- room-she- can-join" plan. I would contact whoever is in charge of the IEPs (sped director, school psych, principal, whatever your school district does) and get a meeting. Make sure that this service is written in her IEP and if it is not, have it written into her IEP as a need/service. Then I would let them know via a nice letter that you expect her to be in the group, it's in her IEP as a service and it needs to be

provided. End of story! There staffing, funding and enrollment is not your problem - it's theirs. If they need to do another group because they have too many kids in need, then that is their problem. You can always offer to let them pay for a private social skill group outside of the school if they cannot provide it at the school. If they still balk or say they won't/can't, then you will have to escalate your reply. But I would start out nice like this. If you already have, then let us know and we can help with the next step!

Roxanna"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) told that not enough room in school help group> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in a 'friends group' to work on social skills with the school counselor. She also went to the school speech therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that she may or may not be able to continue in the friends group depending on whether there was room enough for her. I understand that there could be children who have extreme behavioral issues or something and I gather that then that child would get her spot in the group. My question is, what about MY daughter? I see the difficulties she has communicating/ working things out with others--especially kids. And she regresses without support there. Don't they have to provide this kind of service, too? I know the school counselor only has a certain amount of time to offer, but our daughter needs

that assistance. I have to 'apply' for the counselor service each year (the rest of the services carry over to some extent from year to year). I'm concerned about this coming school year...how can I assure she gets some kind of help in this area, too?>

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[Guest guest]

I agree with you 100% Roxanna. The materials they had for the group they formed was way too babyish for my son. I will never forget the Supervisor of Sped in his school saying he gives all the wrong answers. Like, if your friend was punched, what would you do? My son said punch the kid who punched my friend. I don't think my son would do that ....but 1 at his age it isn't "cool" to run to the teacher and two, he wants to think he is "cool" so he says the inappropriate things 3. the kids he was in a group with were not appropriately matched.

I am not sure what I am going to do this year about social skills...he is sort of burnt out of his mobile therapist and his TSS. He did get a new tSS and he loves him but I think he is tired of all this. He hates having to go to the Psychiatrist because we always end up waiting 30-45 min. before they take us in. So, I agree...I don't know if he would get anything out of it.

jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: Roxanna <MadIdeasaol (DOT) com>Subject: Re: ( ) told that not enough room in school help group Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 8:08 PM

Noooooooo, they are totally wrong. If you have identified this as a need in her IEP, then they need to stop playing the games with you!! One way to stop these things is to find out the law and write letters outlining what you expect. For instance, if this is in her IEP as a service, they need to provide it no matter how many kids need the same service. That is why it is called an "Individual" education plan and not a "group if-we-have-enough- room-she- can-join" plan. I would contact whoever is in charge of the IEPs (sped director, school psych, principal, whatever your school district does) and get a meeting. Make sure that this service is written in her IEP and if it is not, have it written into her IEP as a need/service. Then I would let them know via a nice letter that you expect her to be in the group, it's in her IEP as a service and it needs to be

provided. End of story! There staffing, funding and enrollment is not your problem - it's theirs. If they need to do another group because they have too many kids in need, then that is their problem. You can always offer to let them pay for a private social skill group outside of the school if they cannot provide it at the school. If they still balk or say they won't/can't, then you will have to escalate your reply. But I would start out nice like this. If you already have, then let us know and we can help with the next step!

Roxanna"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) told that not enough room in school help group> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in a 'friends group' to work on social skills with the school counselor. She also went to the school speech therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that she may or may not be able to continue in the friends group depending on whether there was room enough for her. I understand that there could be children who have extreme behavioral issues or something and I gather that then that child would get her spot in the group. My question is, what about MY daughter? I see the difficulties she has communicating/ working things out with others--especially kids. And she regresses without support there. Don't they have to provide this kind of service, too? I know the school counselor only has a certain amount of time to offer, but our daughter needs

that assistance. I have to 'apply' for the counselor service each year (the rest of the services carry over to some extent from year to year). I'm concerned about this coming school year...how can I assure she gets some kind of help in this area, too?>

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[Guest guest]

I agree with you 100% Roxanna. The materials they had for the group they formed was way too babyish for my son. I will never forget the Supervisor of Sped in his school saying he gives all the wrong answers. Like, if your friend was punched, what would you do? My son said punch the kid who punched my friend. I don't think my son would do that ....but 1 at his age it isn't "cool" to run to the teacher and two, he wants to think he is "cool" so he says the inappropriate things 3. the kids he was in a group with were not appropriately matched.

I am not sure what I am going to do this year about social skills...he is sort of burnt out of his mobile therapist and his TSS. He did get a new tSS and he loves him but I think he is tired of all this. He hates having to go to the Psychiatrist because we always end up waiting 30-45 min. before they take us in. So, I agree...I don't know if he would get anything out of it.

jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: Roxanna <MadIdeasaol (DOT) com>Subject: Re: ( ) told that not enough room in school help group Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 8:08 PM

Noooooooo, they are totally wrong. If you have identified this as a need in her IEP, then they need to stop playing the games with you!! One way to stop these things is to find out the law and write letters outlining what you expect. For instance, if this is in her IEP as a service, they need to provide it no matter how many kids need the same service. That is why it is called an "Individual" education plan and not a "group if-we-have-enough- room-she- can-join" plan. I would contact whoever is in charge of the IEPs (sped director, school psych, principal, whatever your school district does) and get a meeting. Make sure that this service is written in her IEP and if it is not, have it written into her IEP as a need/service. Then I would let them know via a nice letter that you expect her to be in the group, it's in her IEP as a service and it needs to be

provided. End of story! There staffing, funding and enrollment is not your problem - it's theirs. If they need to do another group because they have too many kids in need, then that is their problem. You can always offer to let them pay for a private social skill group outside of the school if they cannot provide it at the school. If they still balk or say they won't/can't, then you will have to escalate your reply. But I would start out nice like this. If you already have, then let us know and we can help with the next step!

Roxanna"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) told that not enough room in school help group> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in a 'friends group' to work on social skills with the school counselor. She also went to the school speech therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that she may or may not be able to continue in the friends group depending on whether there was room enough for her. I understand that there could be children who have extreme behavioral issues or something and I gather that then that child would get her spot in the group. My question is, what about MY daughter? I see the difficulties she has communicating/ working things out with others--especially kids. And she regresses without support there. Don't they have to provide this kind of service, too? I know the school counselor only has a certain amount of time to offer, but our daughter needs

that assistance. I have to 'apply' for the counselor service each year (the rest of the services carry over to some extent from year to year). I'm concerned about this coming school year...how can I assure she gets some kind of help in this area, too?>

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[Guest guest]

Make sure that social skills needs are indicated on the IEP under NEEDS or Present Level of Performance data. Also, if your daughter has been receiving social skills therapy over the past year there should be a goal that was measuring progress. If she met progress and they want to exit her they would need to complete some kind of an evaluation to prove she no longer needs the service. Pam

In a message dated 7/22/2009 12:46:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jmlrgs1870@... writes:

We have an IEP (last year and now for this coming year), but the group I met with said that they cannot (will not??) include time with the school counselor (who does the friends/social group) in the IEP automatically. We need to reapply each fall, which delays the starting date even if she is one of the students permitted to be included in the group. And we were told they couldn't guarantee that she would be able to be in it the whole school year if someone else is deemed to need it more than our daughter...she would be dropped from the group then. I prayed all last year that she wouldn't be dropped and now it appears I'll need to hold my breath all year again.>> > > If you have an IEP, then you can write this in as a service and not have to argue for it each year.? Do you have an IEP yet?> > > > > > > > > > > > ?Roxanna> > > > "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ( ) told that not enough room in school help group> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in a 'friends group' to work on social skills with the school counselor. She also went to the school speech therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that she may or may not be able to continue in the friends group depending on whether there was room enough for her. I understand that there could be children who have extreme behavioral issues or something and I gather that then that child would get her spot in the group. My question is, what about MY daughter? I see the difficulties she has communicating/working things out with others--especially kids. And she regresses without support there. Don't they have to provide this kind of service, too? I know the school counselor only has a certain amount of time to offer, but our daughter needs that assistance. I have to 'apply' for the counselor service each year (the rest of the services carry over to some extent from year to year). I'm concerned about this coming school year...how can I assure she gets some kind of help in this area, too?>

Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School

[Guest guest]

Not sure ...I could check it out.

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth@...>Subject: Re: ( ) told that not enough room in school help group Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 9:09 AM

>> Janice,> We are having MUCH more luck with social skills at the community college level. My 13 year old HFA son will sit through 9 hour classes on "stress management" and "values and ethics" and "communication in the workplace." This is a really good idea! I had actually sort of offhandedly thought about this, because my son is the same way, but never taken any action. Did you have any problems getting the community college let a 13yo take their courses?

[Guest guest]

Yes, I know that when the kids get to be seniors and are at a higher lever academically, they can take college classes. My son is only 13 1/2 going into 8th grade...and right now he is not on the higher end of his academic class...

We are in Pa and I know seniors can do this but they have to be advanced.

jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: Roxanna <MadIdeasaol (DOT) com>Subject: Re: ( ) told that not enough room in school help group Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 8:08 PM

Noooooooo, they are totally wrong. If you have identified this as a need in her IEP, then they need to stop playing the games with you!! One way to stop these things is to find out the law and write letters outlining what you expect. For instance, if this is in her IEP as a service, they need to provide it no matter how many kids need the same service. That is why it is called an "Individual" education plan and not a "group if-we-have-enough- room-she- can-join" plan. I would contact whoever is in charge of the IEPs (sped director, school psych, principal, whatever your school district does) and get a meeting. Make sure that this service is written in her IEP and if it is not, have it written into her IEP as a need/service. Then I would let them know via a nice letter that you expect her to be in the group, it's in her IEP as a service and it needs to be

provided. End of story! There staffing, funding and enrollment is not your problem - it's theirs. If they need to do another group because they have too many kids in need, then that is their problem. You can always offer to let them pay for a private social skill group outside of the school if they cannot provide it at the school. If they still balk or say they won't/can't, then you will have to escalate your reply. But I would start out nice like this. If you already have, then let us know and we can help with the next step!

Roxanna"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) told that not enough room in school help group> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in a 'friends group' to work on social skills with the school counselor. She also went to the school speech therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that she may or may not be able to continue in the friends group depending on whether there was room enough for her. I understand that there could be children who have extreme behavioral issues or something and I gather that then that child would get her spot in the group. My question is, what about MY daughter? I see the difficulties she has communicating/ working things out with others--especially kids. And she regresses without support there. Don't they have to provide this kind of service, too? I know the school counselor only has a certain amount of time to offer, but our daughter needs

that assistance. I have to 'apply' for the counselor service each year (the rest of the services carry over to some extent from year to year). I'm concerned about this coming school year...how can I assure she gets some kind of help in this area, too?>

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[Guest guest]

>

> Yes, I know that when the kids get to be seniors and are at a higher lever

academically, they can take college classes.  My son is only 13 1/2 going into

8th grade...and right now he is not on the higher end of his academic class...

>  

> We are in Pa and I know seniors can do this but they have to be advanced.

I don't think she is talking about normal dual-enrollment, Jan. At least I

think that is what you are referring to. I think she is talking about college

classes that normally wouldn't be of interest to a high school student, like

business ethics. She is talking about using them for social skills training.

Interesting idea. It is just that our high school leaves room for very few

electives, one of which is already taken up by the social skills/study skills

for ASD (for my son). I can't picture him wanting to just take them on his own

in the summer or something, at least not yet at age 14.

[Guest guest]

Yes, I was talking about dual enrollment...that is the only way he could take college courses during the day. But, he could probably enroll in a class at night or on the weekends...but at his age (14)...he has no interest.

Jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: r_woman2 <me2ruth@...>Subject: Re: ( ) told that not enough room in school help group Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 9:23 AM

>> Yes, I know that when the kids get to be seniors and are at a higher lever academically, they can take college classes. My son is only 13 1/2 going into 8th grade...and right now he is not on the higher end of his academic class...> > We are in Pa and I know seniors can do this but they have to be advanced.I don't think she is talking about normal dual-enrollment, Jan. At least I think that is what you are referring to. I think she is talking about college classes that normally wouldn't be of interest to a high school student, like business ethics. She is talking about using them for social skills training. Interesting idea. It is just that our

high school leaves room for very few electives, one of which is already taken up by the social skills/study skills for ASD (for my son). I can't picture him wanting to just take them on his own in the summer or something, at least not yet at age 14.

[Guest guest]

It's so ironic when they make statements like that - he gives all the wrong answers. Well, duh. That would be why he's in the group! It is also hard because your ds gave an honest answer as to what he would do. A lot of kids would do that. But you have to be so "PC" these days and say the right things. I doubt a lot of our kids can make those distinctions so easily. The teacher should have instead guided him to think through other ways of handling things and also discussed what would happen if he punched the other kid.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) told that not enough room in school help group

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> Help! Last year, my daughter was able to be in a 'friends group' to work on social skills with the school counselor. She also went to the school speech therapist and had adaptive phy ed. I was told that she may or may not be able to continue in the friends group depending on whether there was room enough for her. I understand that there could be children who have extreme behavioral issues or something and I gather that then that child would get her spot in the group. My question is, what about MY daughter? I see the difficulties she has communicating/ working things out with others--especially kids. And she regresses without support there. Don't they have to provide this kind of service, too? I know the school counselor only has a certain amount of time to offer, but our daughter needs

that assistance. I have to 'apply' for the counselor service each year (the rest of the services carry over to some extent from year to year). I'm concerned about this coming school year...how can I assure she gets some kind of help in this area, too?

>

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!