What would you do?

[Guest guest]

>I always worry about " doc hopping " ...almost like jumping from doc to doc

>to find one who will agree with me. But like I have heard before...we are

>in charge of our bodies and our health care. If you feel something is

>wrong, you are entitled to a second opinion.>>

LOL make that a 4th opinion!! <G> Hey....Vicki, was it you that had that

are on your hip that was numb or cold to the touch? THat site I just

posted, s, Here is a site that I went to off of his, wow, you can

get pain in that area, from way UP in your back!

http://www.maitrise-orthop.com/corpusmaitri/orthopaedic/mo70_maigne_thoracolumba\

r/

Ask me about my new MSM lotion for aches/pains!

http://www.scentsappeal.net

[Guest guest]

> Vicki, was it you that had that are on your hip that was numb or cold to the

touch? <

Nope...that wasn't me!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/18/03 7:22:57 PM, casualphoto@... writes:

<< I always worry about " doc hopping " ...almost like jumping from doc to doc

to find one who will agree with me. But like I have heard before...we are in

charge of our bodies and our health care. If you feel something is wrong, you

are entitled to a second opinion. >>

Bullshit!! Excuse my french. You're absolutely in charge of your body and are

absolutely entitled to nothing less than top notch medical care. If you feel

you're not getting it (not to be confused with good beside manner), follow

your gut instinct and get another opinion or two or three or as many as you

feel you need. Having a doctor agree with you is another matter entirely. Get

over that. If you have the need to be agreed with that could and probably

will get in the way of your care. But if you don't feel that you're getting

adequate care or feel that you'd like another opinion, you go get it and

don't apologize to anyone for doing it. Just my two cents worth. (Did

Imention I just quit smoking? lol---Not pussyfooting around here with my

words I guess lol)

Robin

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/19/03 11:30:50 AM, Ckelly@... writes:

<< ROFL Oh Robin.....your cracking me up! Well, I am going to wait till I

can talk to my attorney, and he is supposed to be back from California this

Friday. His assistant did tell me that they will be sending me to a

Neurologist as well. Hubby wants to go with me to the next

appt.....yikes.. >>

LMAO. Chris:

Just follow your gut instincts and stay away from all guns!!! (unless they're

water pistols lol)

xoxooxo

(from sunny so. California)

Robin

[Guest guest]

> But if you don't feel that you're getting

>adequate care or feel that you'd like another opinion, you go get it and

>don't apologize to anyone for doing it. Just my two cents worth. (Did

>Imention I just quit smoking? lol---Not pussyfooting around here with my

>words I guess lol)>>

ROFL Oh Robin.....your cracking me up! Well, I am going to wait till I

can talk to my attorney, and he is supposed to be back from California this

Friday. His assistant did tell me that they will be sending me to a

Neurologist as well. Hubby wants to go with me to the next

appt.....yikes....I'm not so sure that is a good idea! He doesn't mince

words either...but sometimes, he just doesn't say things so nicely

either. Like wanting to put a bullet in between the eyes of my OS <G>

Ask me about my new MSM lotion for aches/pains!

http://www.scentsappeal.net

[Guest guest]

Encourage your friend to see an LLMD, or at the very minimum, see

someone who will have the IGENEX tests done. I had various symptoms for

YEARS, and it was only when I had the knee swell up that I saw an

orthopedist who had an inkling it may be Lyme.

W

Baltimore

DeMarco wrote:

>

> I have a friend who recently came back from a hiking trip on the west

> coast. About a week after returning home he came down with a weird

> flu, vomiting, shaking, chills - nasty stuff. Then, as that got

> better, his knee swelled up like a grapefruit. His knee is improving,

> still swollen, but better, and he is feeling better over all, but " weary. "

>

> I encouraged him to go for a Lyme test, but I don't think he will.

> *If* it's Lyme, he should be at a point where even the lousy tests are

> at their most useful.

>

> But he says the trails were wide, and he wasn't in brush, didn't see a

> bite or a rash, showered every night...

>

> Am I being overly paranoid? It's just, he doesn't remember injuring

> the knee. It blew up as the flu-like illness subsided. *sigh* Even

> Shapiro might test this one.

>

> I am more familiar with chronic Lyme - can anyone tell me what early

> symptoms might come along that would be worth paying attention to? I

> know bell's palsy and tingling/numbness stuff, fatigue, possible night

> sweats... More?

>

> D.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

, I don't think you're being paranoid at all. I asked my

younger sis to be tested, because her knee swells so bad and it isn't

RA. She is skeptical (sp), which kills me since my older sis and I

had/have Lyme.

Here's a link for early symptoms:

http://www.lymedisease.org/symptoms.htm

Most I read spoke of knee happening later in Lyme disease. Here is

one link about it:

http://www.rheumatology.org/public/factsheets/lyme_new.asp

This statement is from this site: Lyme arthritis (late stage) causes

swelling of one or both knees and, less often, can affect other,

predominantly large, joints of the body.

So, if he hikes regularly he may have late Lyme. Maybe you can get

him to check symptoms on www.CanLyme.com That might not help, they

say some people don't get many symptoms and that seems to be my

younger sis' case. Also, my older sis had just a fibro reaction, not

that that isn't serious suffering, but I have so many systems hit.

I hope you can convince him to be tested. My husband told me there

is an eye test that is getting great results. Maybe somebody here

knows more about that.

jan

>

> I have a friend who recently came back from a hiking trip on the

west coast. About a week after returning home he came down with a

weird flu, vomiting, shaking, chills - nasty stuff. Then, as that

got better, his knee swelled up like a grapefruit. His knee is

improving, still swollen, but better, and he is feeling better over

all, but " weary. "

>

> I encouraged him to go for a Lyme test, but I don't think he will.

*If* it's Lyme, he should be at a point where even the lousy tests

are at their most useful.

>

> But he says the trails were wide, and he wasn't in brush, didn't

see a bite or a rash, showered every night...

>

> Am I being overly paranoid? It's just, he doesn't remember

injuring the knee. It blew up as the flu-like illness subsided.

*sigh* Even Shapiro might test this one.

>

> I am more familiar with chronic Lyme - can anyone tell me what

early symptoms might come along that would be worth paying attention

to? I know bell's palsy and tingling/numbness stuff, fatigue,

possible night sweats... More?

>

> D.

[Guest guest]

HI . Please let your friend know that a simple mosquito bite can give you

a case of Lyme and other co-infections. Were there any mosquitoes on his trip?

Were there any gnats or biting flies? ANY biting insect can give LD and I've

never heard of an outdoor hike that doesn't have biting insects.

Early warning signs for LD vary GREATLY because the bites take place in

different areas of the body and each individual is genetically weak in different

areas-- LD likes to invade the weakest parts first. You are very right to be

concerned about your friend--Flu and swollen joints, especially knees, are

extremely common first symptoms.

I hope your friend doesn't recklessly throw his life away because he thinks he

knows more about LD than you do. Your instincts and knowledge are correct.

Best Wishes,

anne

DeMarco <ponyrubs@...> wrote:

I have a friend who recently came back from a hiking trip on the west

coast. About a week after returning home he came down with a weird flu,

vomiting, shaking, chills - nasty stuff. Then, as that got better, his knee

swelled up like a grapefruit. His knee is improving, still swollen, but better,

and he is feeling better over all, but " weary. "

I encouraged him to go for a Lyme test, but I don't think he will. *If* it's

Lyme, he should be at a point where even the lousy tests are at their most

useful.

But he says the trails were wide, and he wasn't in brush, didn't see a bite or a

rash, showered every night...

Am I being overly paranoid? It's just, he doesn't remember injuring the knee. It

blew up as the flu-like illness subsided. *sigh* Even Shapiro might test this

one.

I am more familiar with chronic Lyme - can anyone tell me what early symptoms

might come along that would be worth paying attention to? I know bell's palsy

and tingling/numbness stuff, fatigue, possible night sweats... More?

D.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

As much as I love to blame everything on vaccines, I don't think that jump

can immediately be made. I would say discipline is the key.

This will probably get kicked over to OT4VAX very quickly, but I have read

the book " To Train Up a Child " by the Pearls. While I did take a couple good

things from the book, my general opinion of it was not positive. I try to

think what Christ would do if He was here watching my daughter while I was out.

Under no circumstance do I feel He would hit to correct her. I have

also read " Unconditional Parenting " by Cohn. He is at the extreme other end

of the spectrum. But again, I took some things from the book, and left the

rest.

Holly

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Guest guest]

It might very well be Sensory Integration problems resulting from

vaccinations. (I hope I didn't double-send this)

--

" One does not see anything until one sees its beauty " - Wilde

[Guest guest]

Just my two cents and I'm sure there are many here who'll disagree but I

wouldn't blame it on vaccinations right away. You didn't mention the child's age

or if this is a new problem or if this is something that has been building up

for quite a while. Sounds to me that the child is not disciplined properly. We

are quiver full Christians and bring our children up according to the Pearl's

method that is described in the book " To Train Up a Child " by Micheal and Debi

Pearl. NONE of our children have tantrums. And our children didn't go through

the " terrible twos " . We begin training our children from the moment their born

(everyone does) - most people just aren't aware of what their training. Finally

when the child is old enough to understand most parents begin to start the

training process and end up having a lot that they have to correct in their

child's behavior.

For more information on the Pearls you can visit their website at

www.nogreaterjoy.org You will find articles on child training, homeschooling,

and more. They also have a free magazine you can get for free sent to your home

called No Greater Joy.

Hayley

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------

From: " F. " <malica98@...>

Reply-Vaccinations

Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 09:50:42 -0500

>On one of my other groups a woman said her child kicks, screams and throws

>things. To me this isn't normal. I know it happens, but is it a

>vaccination reaction or an issue in the family? One woman played it off as

>the child is just trying to get attention and you should ignore him until he

>finally stops... Also, according to her doctor this is normal... Hello?

>I've never had this issue. I did have my daughter throw tantrums but not to

>this extent. Also, that kind of parenting just isn't me... The child was

>probably vaccinated, but should I even bring it up? Just keep my nose out

>of it? What would you do?

>

>Thanks,

>

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________

Sent via the WebMail system at mail.burke.net

[Guest guest]

Just my humble opinion , and I realize this is going to be controversial,

which I don't want to start, just giving you what I do...

Our 20 month old (mind of his own!!!) likes to kick when his diaper's being

changed (I assume this to being just trying to be a PITA). His latest venture

has been throwing everything over our kitchen gate down into the basement.

(HE-MAN!!!)

Then of course, when he doesn't get his way, he's been going into a screaming

fit.

He had the Hep. B, that was it.

On all occasions of the above when he does what he does he gets a swat by mom.

Surprisingly (rolling eyes), he stops.

When he's with his father, father let''s it continue - therefore, there's no

consistency. When he's with mom, there's typically no problems. When he's with

dad, there's LOTS! When he's with both, it varies depending on who's where,

when.... he's 20 months but smart enough to know who's going to do what. (give

'em an inch, they'll take 10 miles).

In your friend's situation, it " may be " that there's not consistency occurring

with different adult/parental figures (leads to MANY problems, IMPO).

If I were you - I'd stay the hell out of it. It may not be vaccinations at

all, as much as it is discipline and different techniques amongst different

individuals at different times... which can lead to a debate that makes vaccines

look like a cake walk.

IMPO.

Randi J. Airola, © 517-819-5926

[Guest guest]

I don’t think I’d chalk it up sensory damage due to vaccines just yet.

There are a variety of other factors to consider; such as what is the

child’s age? What are the parenting techniques and personality traits of

the parents when attempting to ‘discipline’ the child? Is the child getting

adequate nutrition, or do impurities and sugar play a large factor in the

day to day?

And what is ‘normal’? Each child is so individual and has their own

sensitivities and emotional tolerances; and along with each child being

entirely unique – so are the parents. The intimacy of the relationship

between child and parent, in my opinion, is a major part of how the child

responds to given situations, particularly when being told that they cannot

do something, have something, or that their behavior is inappropriate. My

three-year old rarely tantrums, and when she does, it is typically right

before bedtime, and she is clearly too tired to maintain her self,

emotionally speaking – breakdown follows. It is nothing a good solid nap or

regular bedtime won’t ‘cure’. One thing I do know for certain – my approach

and attitude can make all the difference in how my 3 year old and I relate

to one another. Mutual respect.

Chris

_____

From: Vaccinations [mailto:Vaccinations ] On

Behalf Of F.

Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 6:51 AM

Vaccinations

Subject: What would you do?

On one of my other groups a woman said her child kicks, screams and throws

things. To me this isn't normal. I know it happens, but is it a

vaccination reaction or an issue in the family? One woman played it off as

the child is just trying to get attention and you should ignore him until he

finally stops... Also, according to her doctor this is normal... Hello?

I've never had this issue. I did have my daughter throw tantrums but not to

this extent. Also, that kind of parenting just isn't me... The child was

probably vaccinated, but should I even bring it up? Just keep my nose out

of it? What would you do?

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Very well said Holly; I agree with you wholeheartedly!

Chris

_____

From: Vaccinations [mailto:Vaccinations ] On

Behalf Of mensrea320@...

Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 10:37 AM

Vaccinations

Subject: Re: What would you do?

I try to think what Christ would do if He was here watching my daughter

while I was out.

Under no circumstance do I feel He would hit to correct her.

Holly

[Guest guest]

I have read that vaccinations have been linked to aggression but so has a lot

of the synthetic chemicals in processed food. Anger is also stored in the liver.

[Guest guest]

Hi --

Some kids behave this way due to blood sugar imbalances - hypoglycemia

especially (my DS did). Others may have this type of reaction due to

artifical dyes or preservatives found in processed foods.

Health & blessings,

*Get Clean - one of Oprah's Favorite Things!

* http://www.shaklee.net/EcoClean/product/59262

[Guest guest]

In my experience, yes, it is a cry for attention, and it WON'T go

away until the attention is given! whether its bad attention or good

attention - spanking or yelling or reading a book or giving a hug -

KIDS NEED LOTS OF ATTENTION, and they will get it any way they can!

I'm totally shocked about this attitude - ignore the child and

they'll shrivel up and stop bothering you. WHY HAVE KIDS IF YOU

WON'T TAKE CARE OF THEM?!?!?

Sorry, lots of things happening with messed up kids lately. I'm

sensitive.

>

> On one of my other groups a woman said her child kicks, screams and

throws

> things. To me this isn't normal. I know it happens, but is it a

> vaccination reaction or an issue in the family? One woman played

it off as

> the child is just trying to get attention and you should ignore him

until he

> finally stops... Also, according to her doctor this is normal...

Hello?

> I've never had this issue. I did have my daughter throw tantrums

but not to

> this extent. Also, that kind of parenting just isn't me... The

child was

> probably vaccinated, but should I even bring it up? Just keep my

nose out

> of it? What would you do?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/21/2007 12:49:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,

hayleyb@... writes:

All in all consistency is key - whatever you do.

I definitely agree w/you there.

Wanna take the other stuff over to OT4VAX?

Holly

**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

products.

(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

Don't let your image of who you think Christ is change the facts written in the

Bible

- The flood - killed children as well as adults

- Sodom and Gomorrah - again a lot of children died

- Abraham was told to sacrifice his ONLY son on the altar (it was a test but

Abraham didn't know that)

- The plagues of Egypt - one of them was the killing of the firstborn of

everyone who didn't have the blood on their doorframe. The firstborn children on

the Children Of Israel would have died too if they hadn't follow the

instructions given to them.

These are just a few examples.

My point is not to encourage you to spank your child but to discourage you from

projecting what we think about who Christ is (a loving, gentle, meek lamb) and

try to figure out what he would do but rather read in the Bible about how we

should raise our children.

All in all consistency is key - whatever you do.

Hayley

I try to

>think what Christ would do if He was here watching my daughter while I was

out.

> Under no circumstance do I feel He would hit to correct her.

________________________________________________________________

Sent via the WebMail system at mail.burke.net

[Guest guest]

I agree that it may not only be vaccines. Vaccines are one of the many

assaults that can cause sensory integration problems. Genes play a part,

and it can also be discipline problems. However, what this means is not

that anyone is a " bad " parent; maybe just unaware of more sophisticated

parenting skills...or SI.

My own son does have mild SI issues, and he can shut-down or be wound up

depending on his environment. If you take some kids where they have to

integrate many sights, sounds, smells etc, they can lose control, and any

other seemingly slight interaction can set them off.

I don't know what I would do, because I'd have to see the environment, the

kid, the family history etc etc. I do know it's not as simple as one thing

(or another).

--

" One does not see anything until one sees its beauty " - Wilde

[Guest guest]

Offer her a wooden spoon.Just kidding.(My parents had a wooden paddle,It

worked.Just seeing it kept me in line.)I would keep out of it.I think it is

probably the parents lack of dicapline.

" F. " <malica98@...> wrote: On one of my other groups a

woman said her child kicks, screams and throws

things. To me this isn't normal. I know it happens, but is it a

vaccination reaction or an issue in the family? One woman played it off as

the child is just trying to get attention and you should ignore him until he

finally stops... Also, according to her doctor this is normal... Hello?

I've never had this issue. I did have my daughter throw tantrums but not to

this extent. Also, that kind of parenting just isn't me... The child was

probably vaccinated, but should I even bring it up? Just keep my nose out

of it? What would you do?

Thanks,

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

Sure, but first I gotta join. See you there.

Hayley

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------

From: mensrea320@...

Reply-Vaccinations

Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:27:49 EST

>

>In a message dated 11/21/2007 12:49:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,

>hayleyb@... writes:

>

>All in all consistency is key - whatever you do.

>

>

>

>I definitely agree w/you there.

>

>Wanna take the other stuff over to OT4VAX?

>

>Holly

>

>

>

>**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest

>products.

>(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My first thought is: The child isn't disciplined properly, effectively,

or consistently. I've seen tons of kids be out of control when parents

don't know what to do with them. I'd recommend counseling for parents,

and for son if he's old enough. You didn't mention the age, so I can't

tell if it's " normal. "

F. wrote:

>

> On one of my other groups a woman said her child kicks, screams and throws

> things. To me this isn't normal. I know it happens, but is it a

> vaccination reaction or an issue in the family? One woman played it off as

> the child is just trying to get attention and you should ignore him

> until he

> finally stops... Also, according to her doctor this is normal... Hello?

> I've never had this issue. I did have my daughter throw tantrums but

> not to

> this extent. Also, that kind of parenting just isn't me... The child was

> probably vaccinated, but should I even bring it up? Just keep my nose out

> of it? What would you do?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

>

--

Robyn Image: Robyn and Jack

robyn@... <mailto:%20robyn@...>

http://www.rmcsquared.net/

<http://www.idealbite.com/dailytip/link.php?URL=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZGVhbGJpdGUuY29t\

YWRtaW4vY29udGVudC9Mb2NhbCBTZXR0aW5ncy9UZW1wb3JhcnkgSW50ZXJuZXQgRmlsZXMvT0xLREMv\

d3d3LmlkZWFsYml0ZS5jb20%3D & Name= & EncryptedMemberID=OTI1MzA%3D & CampaignID=1 & Campa\

ignStatisticsID=178 & Demo=0 & Email=robynalumni (DOT) cmu.edu>

[Guest guest]

Kids defintitely go through a 'testing' time with their parents. They need/want

to learn what their boundaries are. It helps give them a sense of security. It

gives them opportunities to be praised when they actually do make good choices.

However, diet and sleep also play a HUGE role in discipline problems. An overly

tired child can't be expected to be 'good.' Though I keep trying with my

daughter...A diet high in sugars and starches (juice, crackers, cookies, bread,

corn, potatoes, candy, etc.) will absolutely throw them off. Here in Wisconsin,

up north, there is an alternative school for teens with behavioral problems.

There are many schools around the US like them, but none with such incredible

success. The number one difference is the fresh made food on the menu...all

prepared from scratch, focusing on vegetables and fruit. The kids' behavior is

just radically improved.

Anyhoo, if this friend is asking for advice, definitely share it. Vaccines,

though I personally feel they have no place in our bodies, may or may not be

part of this child's issues, but I have a strong feeling that their problem is

more encompassing than just that.

Hope some part of this helps,

-

---------------------------------

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

I realize this whole discussion has become very OT however I can't not

say something about the mention of the Pearls. These are the sick

people who have advocated whipping babies !!! Children have actually

died as a result of parents following their advice. Here is a link to

more information about these people and their book. Please read this

before spending money that supports their " ministry " .

http://www.stoptherod.net/NGJ.html

>

> As much as I love to blame everything on vaccines, I don't think

that jump

> can immediately be made. I would say discipline is the key.

>

> This will probably get kicked over to OT4VAX very quickly, but I

have read

> the book " To Train Up a Child " by the Pearls.