Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?

[Guest guest]

Feel grateful his is able to do that! My dd is AS but has dyslexia also, and could not learn well until I sent her to a special school that taught them to read phonetically just like you are describing. It works for her.. Her spoken skills are outstanding, but her written skills just aren't there. From: Roxanna <MadIdeas@...> Sent: Mon, August 9, 2010 7:28:56 AMSubject: Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?

No, my ds never sounded things out like that. It could be he has hyperlexia. An important skill in reading is to hear all the individual sounds that a word makes. This might be dating myself a lot here, but we used to watch a tv show (Electric company?) where they went through and said words in syllables like that to help kids learn to hear the sounds of each word. lol. My 13 yo ds has hyperlexia and while he didn't sound things out, he did read before he could use language (he could not say, "Mom, I need a drink" but he could read it.) He was also intensely fascinated with numbers as well as letters and was doing multiplication and division by pre-k/k, though just as far behind in social skills and spoken language skills.

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?

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> > Yes, an interesting point and well-said! Thanks for the link! Yes, I agree with you in that I would definitely not wait for any kind of intervention. Early intervention is so important! But in regards to an actual diagnosis, would a "pdd-nos" diagnosis be more common at a very early age? Can Asperger's Syndrome, whose defining characteristics are lack of appropriate peer-level social interaction and limited interests, truly be gauged in pre-school aged children who primarily participate, peer-wise, in parallel play?

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> > " From making eye contact to smiling in response to words and sounds - it builds up like a tower of skills. They have basic measurement of what skills a child needs to be doing at certain ages - milestones - and I would not wait to put him in school before asking questions if there is a problem. There are a lot of play skills going on well before a child gets to kindergarten as well as socialization and verbal skills. "

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[Guest guest]

I was wondering the same things about diagnosis: I thought that part of why a child is diagnosed with Aspergers is because they do NOT have vocabulary delay, etc. versus AUTISM where there IS the vocabulary delay; Aspergers is more about the social awkwardness, etc., and I thought that if diagnoses with like PDD, APD, etc., then it is NOT Asperger's but PDD, APD, etc.? That is just what I THOUGHT based on all the seminars, education, reading, etc. I have had, so just pointing that out.

$2500 a month for training; wow! That seems incredible if one can afford it--guess I would want to know that it works and proof, etc. because where DOES one then draw the line with spending on the help? There IS supposed to be early intervention and FREE with a diagnoses, and if you have services NOW seem you should be getting what it needed FOR FREE (unlike soooooo many of us whom never get anything other than questioned about the diagnoses and end up home schooling, etc.---and used to be mad but NOW, we just do it ourselves). I am thinking that just sounds like way too much money, and something that, I am sure a professional in the field better to guide can say so please do here, but that is something that YOU CAN DO AT HOME for an hour a day or something and be as much or more effective OR SOMETHING THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BE PAID FOR rather provided through the early intervention services.

Good luck.......just concerned with the costs----a lot of people ARE using AUTISM / ASPERGERS to profit since it's the new big thing, so I am just saying, MAKE SURE, get a second opinion from someone not out for profit, like talk to a Dr. Ball, Dr. Atwood, something like that, PARENTS, make sure that is legitimate and worth your $2500 a MONTH as that seems like an amount worth getting a second, third, and fourth opinion over (and, is that better than having like a one-on-one person you hire as a childcare provider / teacher to work with the child one-on-one, using manipulative, etc.---a developmental pre-school---that would cost the same or less and perhaps do even more good, be an all day type of thing, etc.). GOOD LUCK, and hope it works but on the other hand, there are soooo many people that could NEVER afford that, so that just makes me question it.

A mom of 2 with Aspergers and more (9 and 16 years)

a mom of 2 'neurotypicals' (we think and so far ages 7 and 14 months)and wife of

IN THE MID-WEST---our services are very much lacking here where we live (not New Jersey for SURE!).

From: MadIdeas@...Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 21:52:48 -0400Subject: Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?

APD is a problem with the brain processing what it is hearing, yes. They might take longer to process what is being said or asked, have problems remembering more than one or two tasks at a time or they might hear words differently than they sound. For instance, if you say "Watch out for the pig", he might hear "Watch out for the big" and wonder, "Big what?" I have had a lot of conversations just like that. lol. I like your description of how your ds says things oddly, my 13 yo is the very same way.

RoxannaWhenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?> > > > > > > > Yes, an interesting point and well-said! Thanks for the link! Yes, I agree with you in that I would definitely not wait for any kind of intervention. Early intervention is so important! But in regards to an actual diagnosis, would a "pdd-nos" diagnosis be more common at a very early age? Can Asperger's Syndrome, whose defining characteristics are lack of appropriate peer-level social interaction and limited interests, truly be gauged in pre-school aged children who primarily participate, peer-wise, in parallel play?> ---------------------------------------------------------> > " From making eye contact to smiling in response to words and sounds - it builds up like a tower of skills. They have basic measurement of what skills a child needs to be doing at certain ages - milestones - and I would not wait to put him in school before asking questions if there is a problem. There are a lot of play skills going on well before a child gets to kindergarten as well as socialization and verbal skills. ">

[Guest guest]

I have suspected hyperlexia for a while, which is one of the reasons, along with

the sensory issues, that I came to believe my son has AS. There seems to be some

debate about whether hyperlexia is always on the ASD or not, but as one of

several signs, it seems like it can be a piece of the puzzle. Is that your

understanding as well? (Since then, we have also learned about a lot of other

behaviors - like the social problems and rigid thinking - which only make me

think it is even more likely that he has AS.) My son is definitely into numbers

as well as letters. At not-quite-3 years old, he can do simple addition and

subtraction in his head. Anytime a child gets excited looking at the numbers on

a tape measure, I think something special is probably going on there!

Bridget

Bridget

> > >

> > > I think it would depend on the doctor you are seeing as to how soon they

would dx AS and what labels they feel comfortable using. Then it will also

depend on the child - how severe the issues are - as to how soon you would be

able to dx it. I see what you mean too about how it would be hard to tell. But

the AS kids I have seen usually stand out even at the younger ages. They tend

to use a bigger vocabulary (not all do), the way they talk and how it sounds can

be interesting, and there are problems even then with social skills being absent

as well as play skills often being limited or obsessive. They are pretty rigid

in their thinking as well when it comes to social concepts. You are going to

see little quirks even early on. You may also see other problems happening like

ADHD, auditory processing delays, OCD, tics, inability to understand simple

questions, time concepts, problems with literal language, etc. Play is one

thing in the mix but even within that, i f you r kid spends his time lining up

cars instead of driving them around the carpet or if he gets excited when he

walks into a house and sees a vacuum cleaner and never even glances at the pile

of toys in the corner, or spends his time spinning the toys instead of playing

with them, you are going to note that these are play skills that are a bit odd.

Even within solitary play, you will see quirks going on.

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> > > Roxanna

> > > Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

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> > > Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?

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> > > Yes, an interesting point and well-said! Thanks for the link! Yes, I agree

with you in that I would definitely not wait for any kind of intervention. Early

intervention is so important! But in regards to an actual diagnosis, would a

" pdd-nos " diagnosis be more common at a very early age? Can Asperger's Syndrome,

whose defining characteristics are lack of appropriate peer-level social

interaction and limited interests, truly be gauged in pre-school aged children

who primarily participate, peer-wise, in parallel play?

> > > ---------------------------------------------------------

> > >

> > > " From making eye contact to smiling in response to words and sounds - it

builds up like a tower of skills. They have basic measurement of what skills a

child needs to be doing at certain ages - milestones - and I would not wait to

put him in school before asking questions if there is a problem. There are a

lot of play skills going on well before a child gets to kindergarten as well as

socialization and verbal skills. "

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Mine didn't have language delay as far as speech was concerned (was very

advanced talker, but has peculiarities). But it was picked up that he has

auditory processing deficits - ie may misinterpret speech etc and finds it hard

to retain sequences of verbal instructions, plus difficulty interpreting tone of

voice etc. We were recommended to see speech pathologist (which seems funny,

because my son speaks well)

Miranda

> >

> > I think it would depend on the doctor you are seeing as to how soon they

would dx AS and what labels they feel comfortable using. Then it will also

depend on the child - how severe the issues are - as to how soon you would be

able to dx it. I see what you mean too about how it would be hard to tell. But

the AS kids I have seen usually stand out even at the younger ages. They tend to

use a bigger vocabulary (not all do), the way they talk and how it sounds can be

interesting, and there are problems even then with social skills being absent as

well as play skills often being limited or obsessive. They are pretty rigid in

their thinking as well when it comes to social concepts. You are going to see

little quirks even early on. You may also see other problems happening like

ADHD, auditory processing delays, OCD, tics, inability to understand simple

questions, time concepts, problems with literal language, etc. Play is one thing

in the mix but even within that, if you r kid spends his time lining up cars

instead of driving them around the carpet or if he gets excited when he walks

into a house and sees a vacuum cleaner and never even glances at the pile of

toys in the corner, or spends his time spinning the toys instead of playing with

them, you are going to note that these are play skills that are a bit odd. Even

within solitary play, you will see quirks going on.

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> > Roxanna

> > Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

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> > Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?

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> > Yes, an interesting point and well-said! Thanks for the link! Yes, I agree

with you in that I would definitely not wait for any kind of intervention. Early

intervention is so important! But in regards to an actual diagnosis, would a

" pdd-nos " diagnosis be more common at a very early age? Can Asperger's Syndrome,

whose defining characteristics are lack of appropriate peer-level social

interaction and limited interests, truly be gauged in pre-school aged children

who primarily participate, peer-wise, in parallel play?

> > ---------------------------------------------------------

> >

> > " From making eye contact to smiling in response to words and sounds - it

builds up like a tower of skills. They have basic measurement of what skills a

child needs to be doing at certain ages - milestones - and I would not wait to

put him in school before asking questions if there is a problem. There are a lot

of play skills going on well before a child gets to kindergarten as well as

socialization and verbal skills. "

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ruthie,

I am not sure if I understand what you are saying but for us, my ds has several dx's - he has HFA, CAPD/APD, dyslexia. My other ds has "HFA, hyperlexia, and ADHD." Yes, if there is no speech delay, you are looking at AS vs. autism, where there is speech delay. But any kid - whether AS or HFA - could have auditory processing problems or another learning disability as well as the AS. Is that what you are questioning? A lot of times when my oldest was going through school, they ignored his learning disability and just shrugged off problems as part of his HFA. I did not know then what I know now so I didn't know how to make them address his specific learning problems that were above and beyond "just" the autism.

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?

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> Yes, an interesting point and well-said! Thanks for the link! Yes, I agree with you in that I would definitely not wait for any kind of intervention. Early intervention is so important! But in regards to an actual diagnosis, would a "pdd-nos" diagnosis be more common at a very early age? Can Asperger's Syndrome, whose defining characteristics are lack of appropriate peer-level social interaction and limited interests, truly be gauged in pre-school aged children who primarily particip

ate, peer-wise, in parallel play?

> ---------------------------------------------------------

>

> " From making eye contact to smiling in response to words and sounds - it builds up like a tower of skills. They have basic measurement of what skills a child needs to be doing at certain ages - milestones - and I would not wait to put him in school before asking questions if there is a problem. There are a lot of play skills going on well before a child gets to kindergarten as well as socialization and verbal skills. "

>

[Guest guest]

I tend to think hyperlexia is a piece of the spectrum, although I know some people don't. I think these kids are HFA or AS as well as hyperlexic. If they were not on the spectrum, they would be "just gifted" alone. And then they wouldn't have hyperlexia, IMO. They would just be gifted and on their own developmental tract. Sometimes I think people get dazzled by the gift part of it and don't appreciate the deficit's that are happening. It is like watching a show sometimes. They used to have my ds read in pre-k because it sounded so cute. And it did. And he enjoyed doing it. But at least we had a really good IEP going where they were working on his areas of deficit as well. You will have to constantly be watchful that they don't gloss over his deficits because his gifts will be so obvious. When your kid is multiplying in kindergarten, they tend to say, "He's multiplying, what is your complaint?" lol. Be ready with your list. <g>

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?

> > >

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> > >

> > > Yes, an interesting point and well-said! Thanks for the link! Yes, I agree with you in that I would definitely not wait for any kind of intervention. Early intervention is so important! But in regards to an actual diagnosis, would a "pdd-nos" diagnosis be more common at a very early age? Can Asperger's Syndrome, whose defining characteristics are lack of appropriate peer-level social interaction and limited interests, truly be gauged in pre-school aged children who primarily participate, peer-wise, in parallel play?

> > > ---------------------------------------------------------

> > >

> > > " From making eye contact to smiling in response to words and sounds - it builds up like a tower of skills. They have basic measurement of what skills a child needs to be doing at certain ages - milestones - and I would not wait to put him in school before asking questions if there is a problem. There are a lot of play skills going on well before a child gets to kindergarten as well as socialization and verbal skills. "

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>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Roxanna. I will indeed be ready with my list of concerns! It is

definitely true that people who do not know my son well see how bright he is and

can miss some of the other stuff. We are going to be pushing for a strong

pragmatic language evaluation when he meets with the speech therapist from the

school dept. Yes, he can read and spell, but as his OT said, he just does not

instinctively get stuff like saying hello and goodbye, personal space, using

words instead of screaming when frustrated - the everyday life use of all the

language he has acquired. Hopefully we will get the ball rolling pretty soon for

his evaluations; the school district team has been on vacation for the last

month, but they should be back this week and 30 days has already ticked off of

their 90 day window to complete the assessment of transfer from early

intervention services. I feel like I have learned a lot in the last month, so at

least that has been time well spent.

Bridget

> > > >

> > > > I think it would depend on the doctor you are seeing as to how soon they

would dx AS and what labels they feel comfortable using. Then it will also

depend on the child - how severe the issues are - as to how soon you would be

able to dx it. I see what you mean too about how it would be hard to tell. But

the AS kids I have seen usually stand out even at the younger ages. They tend

to use a bigger vocabulary (not all do), the way they talk and how it sounds can

be interesting, and there are problems even then with social skills being absent

as well as play skills often being limited or obsessive. They are pretty rigid

in their thinking as well when it comes to social concepts. You are going to

see little quirks even early on. You may also see other problems happening like

ADHD, auditory processing delays, OCD, tics, inability to understand simple

questions, time concepts, problems with literal language, etc. Play is one

thing in the mix but even within th at, i f you r kid spends his time lining up

cars instead of driving them around the carpet or if he gets excited when he

walks into a house and sees a vacuum cleaner and never even glances at the pile

of toys in the corner, or spends his time spinning the toys instead of playing

with them, you are going to note that these are play skills that are a bit odd.

Even within solitary play, you will see quirks going on.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Roxanna

> > > > Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

> > > >

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> > > >

> > > > Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?

> > > >

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> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes, an interesting point and well-said! Thanks for the link! Yes, I

agree with you in that I would definitely not wait for any kind of intervention.

Early intervention is so important! But in regards to an actual diagnosis, would

a " pdd-nos " diagnosis be more common at a very early age? Can Asperger's

Syndrome, whose defining characteristics are lack of appropriate peer-level

social interaction and limited interests, truly be gauged in pre-school aged

children who primarily participate, peer-wise, in parallel play?

> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > " From making eye contact to smiling in response to words and sounds -

it builds up like a tower of skills. They have basic measurement of what skills

a child needs to be doing at certain ages - milestones - and I would not wait to

put him in school before asking questions if there is a problem. There are a

lot of play skills going on well before a child gets to kindergarten as well as

socialization and verbal skills. "

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My son was hyperlexic and also did multiplication in K. They thought I was crazy when I pushed for a psycho-ed test and IEP for such a high performing kid. Yeah, except he couldn't interact appropriately with the other kids )and still can't at 8 1/2!). E.V.Sent via BlackBerry by AT&TFrom: Roxanna <MadIdeas@...>Sender: Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 10:24:42 -0400< >Reply Subject: Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler? I tend to think hyperlexia is a piece of the spectrum, although I know some people don't. I think these kids are HFA or AS as well as hyperlexic. If they were not on the spectrum, they would be "just gifted" alone. And then they wouldn't have hyperlexia, IMO. They would just be gifted and on their own developmental tract. Sometimes I think people get dazzled by the gift part of it and don't appreciate the deficit's that are happening. It is like watching a show sometimes. They used to have my ds read in pre-k because it sounded so cute. And it did. And he enjoyed doing it. But at least we had a really good IEP going where they were working on his areas of deficit as well. You will have to constantly be watchful that they don't gloss over his deficits because his gifts will be so obvious. When your kid is multiplying in kindergarten, they tend to say, "He's multiplying, what is your complaint?" lol. Be ready with your list. <g> RoxannaWhenever I feel blue, I start breathing again. Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, an interesting point and well-said! Thanks for the link! Yes, I agree with you in that I would definitely not wait for any kind of intervention. Early intervention is so important! But in regards to an actual diagnosis, would a "pdd-nos" diagnosis be more common at a very early age? Can Asperger's Syndrome, whose defining characteristics are lack of appropriate peer-level social interaction and limited interests, truly be gauged in pre-school aged children who primarily participate, peer-wise, in parallel play?> > > ---------------------------------------------------------> > > > > > " From making eye contact to smiling in response to words and sounds - it builds up like a tower of skills. They have basic measurement of what skills a child needs to be doing at certain ages - milestones - and I would not wait to put him in school before asking questions if there is a problem. There are a lot of play skills going on well before a child gets to kindergarten as well as socialization and verbal skills. "> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

We have just gotten the results of the ASRS checklist we filled out for the

school district psychologist last month, and she did find elevated ratings in

all the categories. She said that in all likelihood my son fits the diagnostic

criteria for AS. The next step is a classroom observation session once preschool

starts, followed by a group meeting with OT, ST, the psychologist, and a

resource teacher. After that, she will schedule the ADOS test to make the formal

determination.

Something that the school psychologist mentioned was that her dx would be

considered an " educational dx " and some insurance companies need to see a

" medical dx " to cover services. Have any of you found this to be true with your

insurance companies? If we do get a dx through the school district, it would

help my son to qualify for their services, of course, but it will also open the

door to getting into TEACCH (where we are on an interminable wait list), where

they can administer the ADOS for a medical dx.

Thanks,

Bridget

> > > >

> > > > I think it would depend on the doctor you are seeing as to how soon they

would dx AS and what labels they feel comfortable using. Then it will also

depend on the child - how severe the issues are - as to how soon you would be

able to dx it. I see what you mean too about how it would be hard to tell. But

the AS kids I have seen usually stand out even at the younger ages. They tend

to use a bigger vocabulary (not all do), the way they talk and how it sounds can

be interesting, and there are problems even then with social skills being absent

as well as play skills often being limited or obsessive. They are pretty rigid

in their thinking as well when it comes to social concepts. You are going to

see little quirks even early on. You may also see other problems happening like

ADHD, auditory processing delays, OCD, tics, inability to understand simple

questions, time concepts, problems with literal language, etc. Play is one

thing in the mix but even within th at, i f you r kid spends his time lining up

cars instead of driving them around the carpet or if he gets excited when he

walks into a house and sees a vacuum cleaner and never even glances at the pile

of toys in the corner, or spends his time spinning the toys instead of playing

with them, you are going to note that these are play skills that are a bit odd.

Even within solitary play, you will see quirks going on.

> > > >

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> > > > Roxanna

> > > > Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

> > > >

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> > > > Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?

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> > > >

> > > > Yes, an interesting point and well-said! Thanks for the link! Yes, I

agree with you in that I would definitely not wait for any kind of intervention.

Early intervention is so important! But in regards to an actual diagnosis, would

a " pdd-nos " diagnosis be more common at a very early age? Can Asperger's

Syndrome, whose defining characteristics are lack of appropriate peer-level

social interaction and limited interests, truly be gauged in pre-school aged

children who primarily participate, peer-wise, in parallel play?

> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > " From making eye contact to smiling in response to words and sounds -

it builds up like a tower of skills. They have basic measurement of what skills

a child needs to be doing at certain ages - milestones - and I would not wait to

put him in school before asking questions if there is a problem. There are a

lot of play skills going on well before a child gets to kindergarten as well as

socialization and verbal skills. "

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Insurance companies will vary but we have always found that having a medical dx of autism was NOT helpful in getting any services. We have to specifically request that they do not put autism as the first diagnostic code on billing or insurance kicks it out and refuses to pay. We have had actual arguments over ear infection services that were not paid for because kid was autistic. augh. Speech, OT - none of it was covered if the cause was related to autism. So a medical dx is important, IMO, so you know what you are dealing with. But as for help in getting services, it didn't.

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?

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> > > > Yes, an interesting point and well-said! Thanks for the link! Yes, I agree with you in that I would definitely not wait for any kind of intervention. Early intervention is so important! But in regards to an actual diagnosis, would a "pdd-nos" diagnosis be more common at a very early age? Can Asperger's Syndrome, whose defining characteristics are lack of appropriate peer-level social interaction and limited interests, truly be gauged in pre-school aged children who primarily participate, peer-wise, in parallel play?

> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > " From making eye contact to smiling in response to words and sounds - it builds up like a tower of skills. They have basic measurement of what skills a child needs to be doing at certain ages - milestones - and I would not wait to put him in school before asking questions if there is a problem. There are a lot of play skills going on well before a child gets to kindergarten as well as socialization and verbal skills. "

> > > >

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[Guest guest]

well in my state there is the law for coverage but doesnt help if you are exempt from the law (dd was dx too late) but our insurance doesnt cover st, ot, etc anyway

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 6:40 PM, Roxanna <MadIdeas@...> wrote:

 

Insurance companies will vary but we have always found that having a medical dx of autism was NOT helpful in getting any services.  We have to specifically request that they do not put autism as the first diagnostic code on billing or insurance kicks it out and refuses to pay.  We have had actual arguments over ear infection services that were not paid for because kid was autistic.  augh.  Speech, OT - none of it was covered if the cause was related to autism.  So a medical dx is important, IMO, so you know what you are dealing with.  But as for help in getting services, it didn't.  

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, an interesting point and well-said! Thanks for the link! Yes, I agree with you in that I would definitely not wait for any kind of intervention. Early intervention is so important! But in regards to an actual diagnosis, would a " pdd-nos " diagnosis be more common at a very early age? Can Asperger's Syndrome, whose defining characteristics are lack of appropriate peer-level social interaction and limited interests, truly be gauged in pre-school aged children who primarily participate, peer-wise, in parallel play?

> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------> > > > > > > > " From making eye contact to smiling in response to words and sounds - it builds up like a tower of skills. They have basic measurement of what skills a child needs to be doing at certain ages - milestones - and I would not wait to put him in school before asking questions if there is a problem. There are a lot of play skills going on well before a child gets to kindergarten as well as socialization and verbal skills. "

> > > >> > >> >>

-- -mommy to Emma, Becca, , , , and Leah

[Guest guest]

Now I feel so confused! If speech and OT are not covered under an autism dx,

under what code does insurance cover them? Just for general information

purposes, do you find that having a medical dx is any different than an

educational dx if they both use the same test?

Thanks,

Bridget

ps - I once saw someone on this board mention that they were able to get a

Beckett/deeming waiver for their child based on an Asperger's dx. Is this

something that people generally have good luck getting for ASD or were they

especially fortunate?

> > > > >

> > > > > I think it would depend on the doctor you are seeing as to how soon

they would dx AS and what labels they feel comfortable using. Then it will also

depend on the child - how severe the issues are - as to how soon you would be

able to dx it. I see what you mean too about how it would be hard to tell. But

the AS kids I have seen usually stand out even at the younger ages. They tend

to use a bigger vocabulary (not all do), the way they talk and how it sounds can

be interesting, and there are problems even then with social skills being absent

as well as play skills often being limited or obsessive. They are pretty rigid

in their thinking as well when it comes to social concepts. You are going to

see little quirks even early on. You may also see other problems happening like

ADHD, auditory processing delays, OCD, tics, inability to understand simple

questions, time concepts, problems with literal language, etc. Play is one

thing in the mix but even with in th at, i f you r kid spends his time lining up

cars instead of driving them around the carpet or if he gets excited when he

walks into a house and sees a vacuum cleaner and never even glances at the pile

of toys in the corner, or spends his time spinning the toys instead of playing

with them, you are going to note that these are play skills that are a bit odd.

Even within solitary play, you will see quirks going on.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Roxanna

> > > > > Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, an interesting point and well-said! Thanks for the link! Yes, I

agree with you in that I would definitely not wait for any kind of intervention.

Early intervention is so important! But in regards to an actual diagnosis, would

a " pdd-nos " diagnosis be more common at a very early age? Can Asperger's

Syndrome, whose defining characteristics are lack of appropriate peer-level

social interaction and limited interests, truly be gauged in pre-school aged

children who primarily participate, peer-wise, in parallel play?

> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > > " From making eye contact to smiling in response to words and sounds -

it builds up like a tower of skills. They have basic measurement of what skills

a child needs to be doing at certain ages - milestones - and I would not wait to

put him in school before asking questions if there is a problem. There are a

lot of play skills going on well before a child gets to kindergarten as well as

socialization and verbal skills. "

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I have an 11 year old son recently dx w/Asperger's, as well as having ADHD. I have found that our insurance company does not cover anything with the Autism diagnosis, so we had to get Medical Assistance for him. The problem is that a lot of very good OTs do not accept MA, and our primary insurance won't cover AS dx. I did check and OT would be covered in our case using 781.3 (lack of coordination) dx code. We are presently paying on our own,as the OT we chose does not accept any insurance, so that he can go to someone who specializes in this dx. We had CAPD testing, but I warned them not to use any AS codes because they would not pay. I hope this helps.

From: bridget <beanniferj@...> Sent: Fri, August 20, 2010 7:43:35 PMSubject: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?

Now I feel so confused! If speech and OT are not covered under an autism dx, under what code does insurance cover them? Just for general information purposes, do you find that having a medical dx is any different than an educational dx if they both use the same test?Thanks,Bridgetps - I once saw someone on this board mention that they were able to get a Beckett/deeming waiver for their child based on an Asperger's dx. Is this something that people generally have good luck getting for ASD or were they especially fortunate? > > > > >> > > > > I think it would depend on the doctor you are seeing as to how soon they would dx AS and what labels they feel comfortable using. Then it will also depend on the child - how severe the issues are - as to how soon you would be able to dx it. I see what you mean too about how it would be hard to tell. But the AS kids

I have seen usually stand out even at the younger ages. They tend to use a bigger vocabulary (not all do), the way they talk and how it sounds can be interesting, and there are problems even then with social skills being absent as well as play skills often being limited or obsessive. They are pretty rigid in their thinking as well when it comes to social concepts. You are going to see little quirks even early on. You may also see other problems happening like ADHD, auditory processing delays, OCD, tics, inability to understand simple questions, time concepts, problems with literal language, etc. Play is one thing in the mix but even with in th at, i f you r kid spends his time lining up cars instead of driving them around the carpet or if he gets excited when he walks into a house and sees a vacuum cleaner and never even glances at the pile of toys in the corner, or spends his time spinning the toys instead of playing with them, you are going to note

that these are play skills that are a bit odd. Even within solitary play, you will see quirks going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Roxanna> > > > > Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing

Aspergers in toddler?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, an interesting point and well-said! Thanks for the link! Yes, I agree with you in that I would definitely not wait for any kind of intervention. Early intervention is so important! But in regards to an actual diagnosis, would a "pdd-nos" diagnosis be more common at a very early age? Can Asperger's Syndrome, whose defining characteristics are lack of appropriate peer-level social interaction and limited interests, truly be gauged in pre-school aged children who primarily participate, peer-wise, in parallel play?> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------> > > > > > > > > > " From making eye contact to smiling in response

to words and sounds - it builds up like a tower of skills. They have basic measurement of what skills a child needs to be doing at certain ages - milestones - and I would not wait to put him in school before asking questions if there is a problem. There are a lot of play skills going on well before a child gets to kindergarten as well as socialization and verbal skills. "> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

We were told early on in our son's dx to apply for the B. We didn't qualify......don't know of anyone, personally, who has.

"Buddy the Elf, What's your favorite color?"

Robin

From: bridget <beanniferj@...>Subject: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler? Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 6:43 PM

Now I feel so confused! If speech and OT are not covered under an autism dx, under what code does insurance cover them? Just for general information purposes, do you find that having a medical dx is any different than an educational dx if they both use the same test?Thanks,Bridgetps - I once saw someone on this board mention that they were able to get a Beckett/deeming waiver for their child based on an Asperger's dx. Is this something that people generally have good luck getting for ASD or were they especially fortunate? > > > > >> > > > > I think it would depend on the doctor you are seeing as to how soon they would dx AS and what labels they feel comfortable using. Then it will also depend on the child - how severe the issues are - as to how soon you would be able to dx it. I see what you mean too about how it would be hard to tell. But the AS kids I have seen usually stand out even at the younger ages. They tend to use a bigger vocabulary (not all do), the way they talk and how it sounds can be interesting, and there are problems even then with social skills being absent as well as play skills often being limited or obsessive. They are pretty rigid in their thinking as well when it comes to social concepts. You are going to see little quirks even early on. You may also see other problems happening like ADHD,

auditory processing delays, OCD, tics, inability to understand simple questions, time concepts, problems with literal language, etc. Play is one thing in the mix but even with in th at, i f you r kid spends his time lining up cars instead of driving them around the carpet or if he gets excited when he walks into a house and sees a vacuum cleaner and never even glances at the pile of toys in the corner, or spends his time spinning the toys instead of playing with them, you are going to note that these are play skills that are a bit odd. Even within solitary play, you will see quirks going on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Roxanna> > > > > Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, an interesting point and well-said! Thanks for the link! Yes, I agree with you in that I would definitely not wait for any kind of intervention. Early intervention is so

important! But in regards to an actual diagnosis, would a "pdd-nos" diagnosis be more common at a very early age? Can Asperger's Syndrome, whose defining characteristics are lack of appropriate peer-level social interaction and limited interests, truly be gauged in pre-school aged children who primarily participate, peer-wise, in parallel play?> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------> > > > > > > > > > " From making eye contact to smiling in response to words and sounds - it builds up like a tower of skills. They have basic measurement of what skills a child needs to be doing at certain ages - milestones - and I would not wait to put him in school before asking questions if there is a problem. There are a lot of play skills going on well before a child gets to kindergarten as well as socialization and verbal skills. "> > > > >> > >

>> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for this information. I am just astonished that insurance companies do

not cover services related to an autism dx. I assumed it would be helpful, not a

hindrance. It sounds like it is important to find providers who know which

" acceptable " codes to use for billing insurance for necessary treatment. It is

truly outrageous that they would not cover autism treatment within the general

framework of the insurance plan (ie x # of OT visits per months or whatever).

I am learning so much from everyone on this board, I really appreciate it.

Bridget

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I think it would depend on the doctor you are seeing as to how soon

> >they would dx AS and what labels they feel comfortable using. Then it will

also

> >depend on the child - how severe the issues are - as to how soon you would be

> >able to dx it. I see what you mean too about how it would be hard to tell.

But

> >the AS kids I have seen usually stand out even at the younger ages. They tend

to

> >use a bigger vocabulary (not all do), the way they talk and how it sounds can

be

> >interesting, and there are problems even then with social skills being absent

as

> >well as play skills often being limited or obsessive. They are pretty rigid

in

> >their thinking as well when it comes to social concepts. You are going to see

> >little quirks even early on. You may also see other problems happening like

> >ADHD, auditory processing delays, OCD, tics, inability to understand simple

> >questions, time concepts, problems with literal language, etc. Play is one

thing

> >in the mix but even with in th at, i f you r kid spends his time lining up

cars

> >instead of driving them around the carpet or if he gets excited when he walks

> >into a house and sees a vacuum cleaner and never even glances at the pile of

> >toys in the corner, or spends his time spinning the toys instead of playing

with

> >them, you are going to note that these are play skills that are a bit odd.

Even

> >within solitary play, you will see quirks going on.

> >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Roxanna

> > > > > > Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes, an interesting point and well-said! Thanks for the link! Yes, I

> >agree with you in that I would definitely not wait for any kind of

intervention.

> >Early intervention is so important! But in regards to an actual diagnosis,

would

> >a " pdd-nos " diagnosis be more common at a very early age? Can Asperger's

> >Syndrome, whose defining characteristics are lack of appropriate peer-level

> >social interaction and limited interests, truly be gauged in pre-school aged

> >children who primarily participate, peer-wise, in parallel play?

> > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " From making eye contact to smiling in response to words and sounds

-

> >it builds up like a tower of skills. They have basic measurement of what

skills

> >a child needs to be doing at certain ages - milestones - and I would not wait

to

> >put him in school before asking questions if there is a problem. There are a

lot

> >of play skills going on well before a child gets to kindergarten as well as

> >socialization and verbal skills. "

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Why wouldn't they cover Autism? Is it automatically excluded or was it a pre-existing condition?

Hugs, Michele----- "Roxanna" <MadIdeas@...> wrote:

Insurance companies will vary but we have always found that having a medical dx of autism was NOT helpful in getting any services. We have to specifically request that they do not put autism as the first diagnostic code on billing or insurance kicks it out and refuses to pay. We have had actual arguments over ear infection services that were not paid for because kid was autistic. augh. Speech, OT - none of it was covered if the cause was related to autism. So a medical dx is important, IMO, so you know what you are dealing with. But as for help in getting services, it didn't.

RoxannaWhenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

[Guest guest]

We can usually get some services covered by using the coding for that particular problem. So when we see the dev. doc to check up on meds, he uses "sleep disorder" for instance, as the primary coding. That is, he puts it down for the specific problems my ds has.

Which kind of eval/dx to get really is dependent on what you are going after. To get services at the school, you'll need to go through the educational evaluation. To get services appropriate from the medical community, a medical dx. In addition, school staff are often not trained to make a medical dx and are often only trained to recognize learning problems. You are also dealing with a large bureaucracy in dealing with the school. They have different goals, sometimes. Sometimes they are trying to keep services under a certain minimal number to save costs, for instance. How does that mesh with your child's evaluation? A private evaluation done by medical professionals is going to be better because they are not concerned with budget cuts at your local school and they are trained to evaluate and dx.

Having said that, you have to go through the educational evaluation in order to get services from the school. Sometimes they will accept testing already done privately in lieu of doing testing themselves. You really should get both because each has it's own uses.

Roxanna

"I

predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Jefferson

Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, an interesting point and well-said! Thanks for the link! Yes, I agree with you in that I would definitely not wait for any kind of intervention. Early intervention is so important! But in regards to an actual diagnosis, would a "pdd-nos" diagnosis be more common at a very early age? Can Asperger's Syndrome, whose defining characteristics are lack of appropriate peer-level social interaction and limited interests, truly be gauged in pre-school aged children who primarily participate, peer-wise, in parallel play?

> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------

> > > > >

> > > > > " From making eye contact to smiling in response to words and sounds - it builds up like a tower of skills. They have basic measurement of what skills a child needs to be doing at certain ages - milestones - and I would not wait to put him in school before asking questions if there is a problem. There are a lot of play skills going on well before a child gets to kindergarten as well as socialization and verbal skills. "

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

They consider autism a disease that has no cure and no improvement. And some will say it is mental health issue, not a medical issue. But mostly, they don't want to pay long term, costly claims for services. And autism is a big money sucker of a disability.

As for ST, OT, etc., they expect you to get services from the school for educationally related disabilities.

Roxanna

"I

predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Jefferson

Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?

Why wouldn't they cover Autism? Is it automatically excluded or was it a pre-existing condition?

Hugs, Michele

----- "Roxanna" <MadIdeas@...> wrote:

Insurance companies will vary but we have always found that having a medical dx of autism was NOT helpful in getting any services. We have to specifically request that they do not put autism as the first diagnostic code on billing or insurance kicks it out and refuses to pay. We have had actual arguments over ear infection services that were not paid for because kid was autistic. augh. Speech, OT - none of it was covered if the cause was related to autism. So a medical dx is important, IMO, so you know what you are dealing with. But as for help in getting services, it didn't.

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

[Guest guest]

But there clearly are improvements that can be made with interventions!

Insurance companies can be so frustrating! To me that is like saying that they

should not have to treat my asthma because it is incurable, even though it can

be helped with professional advice and medication.

Thanks for the advice to seek both medical and educational dx. We will be going

after the educational one first, since we are already in the process of being

evaluated to transfer from early intervention services. I will say that we are

extremely fortunate where we live - the director of preschool services for the

local school district has made it clear that she looks for reasons to qualify

children who could use help, not for reasons to exclude them to keep her budget

in check. The director of preschool services has a special needs child of her

own, so she is very empathetic (I might add that she signed her most recent

email to me with a smiley face - a very sweet lady). The school psychologist who

will be doing the AS evaluation already told me that she believes my son will

fit the diagnostic criteria (which I made sure to put in writing in an email to

the director!), and that even if she did not complete her evaluation before the

90 day deadline to transition to the school district, she had another code in

mind under which she could qualify my son (developmental delay based on unusual

behaviors). I will still pursue the medical dx as well, to cover all bases. I am

hoping that if we get the educational dx, we can finally get seen at TEACCH.

Thanks for all your advice!

Bridget

ps - I love your perspective on how to get things coded for insurance. My son's

pediatrician once vaccinated my husband for chicken pox (he had never had it and

our adult g.p. does not keep the vaccine on hand) - the ped's office manager

said, don't worry, I know how to code it so we get paid by your insurance - and

it worked!

>

>

> Insurance companies will vary but we have always found that having a medical

dx of autism was NOT helpful in getting any services. We have to specifically

request that they do not put autism as the first diagnostic code on billing or

insurance kicks it out and refuses to pay. We have had actual arguments over

ear infection services that were not paid for because kid was autistic. augh.

Speech, OT - none of it was covered if the cause was related to autism. So a

medical dx is important, IMO, so you know what you are dealing with. But as for

help in getting services, it didn't.

>

>

>

>

>

> Roxanna

> Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

>

[Guest guest]

In Wisconsin some kids have actually lost their insurance due to having bills under Aspergers and Autism coding, so we have gone out of our way to avoid getting anything for our son billed that way, to the extent of paying for things ourselves at times. So far we have insurance but they assigned a special advocate to us recently, so I assumed that meant we were blacklisted and asked why we were assigned one. The advocate said the insurance companies use a formula according to what diagnostic codes are used and how many services are used to detect who are at high risk for expensive services and they assign these advocates to help us keep our costs down and navigate services. I am now very cautious what I tell this person especially.

From: Roxanna <MadIdeas@...>Subject: Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler? Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 5:40 PM

Insurance companies will vary but we have always found that having a medical dx of autism was NOT helpful in getting any services. We have to specifically request that they do not put autism as the first diagnostic code on billing or insurance kicks it out and refuses to pay. We have had actual arguments over ear infection services that were not paid for because kid was autistic. augh. Speech, OT - none of it was covered if the cause was related to autism. So a medical dx is important, IMO, so you know what you are dealing with. But as for help in getting services, it didn't.

RoxannaWhenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Re: ( ) Re: Diagnosing Aspergers in toddler?> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, an interesting point and well-said! Thanks for the link! Yes, I agree with you in that I would definitely not wait for any kind of intervention. Early intervention is so important! But in regards to an actual diagnosis, would a "pdd-nos" diagnosis be more common at a very early age? Can Asperger's Syndrome, whose defining characteristics are lack of appropriate peer-level social interaction and limited interests, truly be gauged in pre-school aged children who primarily participate, peer-wise, in parallel play?> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------> > > > > > > > " From making eye contact to smiling in response to words and sounds - it builds up like a tower of skills. They have basic measurement of what skills a child needs to be doing at certain ages - milestones - and I would not wait to put him in

school before asking questions if there is a problem. There are a lot of play skills going on well before a child gets to kindergarten as well as socialization and verbal skills. "> > > >> > >> >>