Re: How would u address after school anxiety and shut-down?/

[Guest guest]

,

this is an old post I had saved to reply to. I don't remember if I actually did reply or not so I hope I am not repeating myself.

Many times, I have sat at an IEP meeting to hear how this or that was not a concern for them so it didn't matter, even though it was a big deal to me and to my ds. I think the key to your post is that they "didn't want to hear it." This to me, means you have to step things up a bit and be a bit pushier about this. I often felt that even if they didn't care about a particular problem, it mattered to me. So they would care because I cared, if nothing else. <g>

If it were me, I would go to the next meeting armed with information and factoids. I would make a copy of the "purpose" section of the IDEA, a copy for each team member. I would read it aloud at the meeting, then introduce the problem I am wanting to address, then ask them how we will address this. Do not ask them if it's a problem for them, do not ask them if they want to address this or anything like that. Just be purposeful (this will be addressed!) and say, "This is a problem, it's covered as something to be dealt with within the IDEA and now we need to come up with some ideas for his IEP to address this." If they still refuse to address this, I would write a follow up letter noting that this is a problem, you've asked several times to receive help in dealing with it and would like their refusal to address this in writing with a reason why they refuse and what they considered in making this decision.

Sometimes just putting it in writing and using the "prior written notice" which is required can help make them care that you care. They realize you are not letting this go and it is the law and they had better figure something out. Other times, they may still not care that you care. In that case, if you do not receive a reply or receive a reply explaining why they don't care, you then take it up the food chain to the next person in line.

As always, have data to support your position. Have some ideas to suggest/at least a general idea of what you want from them. If you can have documentation from another outside expert (therapist, counselor, etc) that helps but it isn't required. Provide proof that you have tried to get help and have been ignored or denied (always write follow ups!!) And of course, make sure you are within the law in asking for what you are asking. Then start moving up the food chain.

I have found that usually, you will get results before long. And like I said, they may still not care. But they will learn to care that you care. <g>

As for the problem, I think it is common for kids with autism to have this problem. My older ds (HFA) had this problem to the extreme and even if he was beaten up at school, he would not come home and tell us what happened or that anything happened. With my younger ds (HFA), we specifically targeted all areas related to this and he does much better at this.

You have to really tease out the underlying issues that are not working right for this problem. It might be a different combination of issues for each specific child and not just one pat problem with one pat answer. For instance, my older ds had a severe language delay that often caused him to say as little as possible at all times. He is still like this. getting info from him is like pulling teeth. But along with that, he did not know how to tell important information from unimportant information. He did not know how to solve problems or realize that telling mom and dad was a step in solving a problem.

There are also problems related to memory - short term and long term memory issues can often be happening for kids with learning problems or AS/HFA. and time can be an issue as well. My youngest ds had the worst time learning days of the week, what it means by "yesterday, today, tomorrow" and concepts like that. he's very gifted otherwise, so you would have assumed he'd "get it" but wow, he was totally lost! So asking him "What happened today?" was a real problem since he had no clue what you meant by "today" to begin with. Then he didn't remember what he was doing from hour to hour. He didn't pay attention to social aspects like typical kids - the weather, the kids he played with, what his mom looked like, that he was having fun, etc. <g> all of this kind of mushed together to create the problem.

So you need to give it some thought as to why your ds is having a problem relating information from school to home and look at ways to include these areas in his IEP. Many of these issues are social skills that kids with AS/HFA are struggling with. And many of these issues can be included in an IEP.

Just off the top of my head, some of the things we worked on with my younger ds for this: we had a notebook that went back and forth and teachers were required to write things in there at times. Some teachers wrote volumes! Others just jotted down a factoid now and then. Another thing we did was work on a variety of social concept skills. We had him deliver messages at school - from office to teacher and reverse, take notes and then remember without a note, etc. We had him deliver messages from home to school and reverse, with and without notes. He had to learn concepts of time and what they meant and we did a lot of writing on calendars of events so he could look at the calendar and give me an answer when I asked," What did you do last week that was fun?" What did we do yesterday? What did we last summer? We made a lot of booklets to remember events with him because he did not remember things well. he spent a lot of time in therapy working on noticing things he didn't usually pay attention to (how does the little girl look? why? what is he thinking about? How can you tell? etc.) He had a lot of goals related to problem solving as well - what would do in this situation and why, etc. He was taught specifically to tell mom or dad when he had a problem. He wouldn't have thought to do that without prompting.

We had goals set up for him to remember things from home to school and reverse. For instance, I remember at first having to write down 3 things he did that evening (show he watched, what he ate, game he played, that it rained hard, etc.) and so when he got to school and his therapist would ask him what he did that night, she had some prompts to help him learn how this works. And of course, we did it in reverse so I could ask him, "What did you do today at school?" and had prompts to ask him about if he didn't have an answer. It also helped to know what they were studying in various classes so I could discuss it with him. All of this helped reinforce his learning and his memory.

Anyway, some ideas for this kind of problem.

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

( ) How would u address after school anxiety and shut-down?

Looking to address this in the iep. My son often comes home from school (I pick him up) non-verbal or refusing to talk about his day. When I do get him to open up there's been an incident or issue that caused him a bad day. Yesterday, for instance, there was a classroom activity that the teacher asked the kids to color. My son was adamant that he didn't want to color (I can't remember if my son has ever colored. He doesn't enjoy it honestly) The teacher kept on him to color and when my son wouldn't my son said she continuted to tell him to do it. (imposing her will on an asperger's child is so inaffective)He broke down crying and they kept him out of P.E. and recess.

I had to find out through my son what happened as the school didn't tell me anything. Issues here of transparency.

BUT, back to the idea of showing that my son is affected by his bad day's at school. At the last iep mtg, when I brought up how my son soemtimes doesn't talk hours after school, they said, "well, it's not affecting his performance at school." I brought up that IDEA isn't only academic but they didn't want to hear it.

What would you do to address any of these issues? Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I did not see this post before either. I just wanted to add to Roxanne's

excellent advice that if you need to send letters to the school to address

issues they refuse to resolve, it is recommended that you send them by certified

mail with a return receipt requested. That way no one can claim that they did

not get your letter, and it shows that you are serious about starting a chain of

evidence. Have you read " The Complete IED Guide - How to Advocate for Your

Special Needs Child " ? It is full of information on resolving disputes, due

process, and so on, should it come to that.

Good luck!

Bridget

>

>

> ,

> this is an old post I had saved to reply to. I don't remember if I actually

did reply or not so I hope I am not repeating myself.

>

> Many times, I have sat at an IEP meeting to hear how this or that was not a

concern for them so it didn't matter, even though it was a big deal to me and to

my ds. I think the key to your post is that they " didn't want to hear it. "

This to me, means you have to step things up a bit and be a bit pushier about

this. I often felt that even if they didn't care about a particular problem, it

mattered to me. So they would care because I cared, if nothing else. <g>

>

> If it were me, I would go to the next meeting armed with information and

factoids. I would make a copy of the " purpose " section of the IDEA, a copy for

each team member. I would read it aloud at the meeting, then introduce the

problem I am wanting to address, then ask them how we will address this. Do not

ask them if it's a problem for them, do not ask them if they want to address

this or anything like that. Just be purposeful (this will be addressed!) and

say, " This is a problem, it's covered as something to be dealt with within the

IDEA and now we need to come up with some ideas for his IEP to address this. "

If they still refuse to address this, I would write a follow up letter noting

that this is a problem, you've asked several times to receive help in dealing

with it and would like their refusal to address this in writing with a reason

why they refuse and what they considered in making this decision.

>

> Sometimes just putting it in writing and using the " prior written notice "

which is required can help make them care that you care. They realize you are

not letting this go and it is the law and they had better figure something out.

Other times, they may still not care that you care. In that case, if you do not

receive a reply or receive a reply explaining why they don't care, you then take

it up the food chain to the next person in line.

>

> As always, have data to support your position. Have some ideas to suggest/at

least a general idea of what you want from them. If you can have documentation

from another outside expert (therapist, counselor, etc) that helps but it isn't

required. Provide proof that you have tried to get help and have been ignored

or denied (always write follow ups!!) And of course, make sure you are within

the law in asking for what you are asking. Then start moving up the food chain.

>

> I have found that usually, you will get results before long. And like I said,

they may still not care. But they will learn to care that you care. <g>

>

> As for the problem, I think it is common for kids with autism to have this

problem. My older ds (HFA) had this problem to the extreme and even if he was

beaten up at school, he would not come home and tell us what happened or that

anything happened. With my younger ds (HFA), we specifically targeted all areas

related to this and he does much better at this.

>

> You have to really tease out the underlying issues that are not working right

for this problem. It might be a different combination of issues for each

specific child and not just one pat problem with one pat answer. For instance,

my older ds had a severe language delay that often caused him to say as little

as possible at all times. He is still like this. getting info from him is like

pulling teeth. But along with that, he did not know how to tell important

information from unimportant information. He did not know how to solve problems

or realize that telling mom and dad was a step in solving a problem.

>

> There are also problems related to memory - short term and long term memory

issues can often be happening for kids with learning problems or AS/HFA. and

time can be an issue as well. My youngest ds had the worst time learning days

of the week, what it means by " yesterday, today, tomorrow " and concepts like

that. he's very gifted otherwise, so you would have assumed he'd " get it " but

wow, he was totally lost! So asking him " What happened today? " was a real

problem since he had no clue what you meant by " today " to begin with. Then he

didn't remember what he was doing from hour to hour. He didn't pay attention to

social aspects like typical kids - the weather, the kids he played with, what

his mom looked like, that he was having fun, etc. <g> all of this kind of

mushed together to create the problem.

>

> So you need to give it some thought as to why your ds is having a problem

relating information from school to home and look at ways to include these areas

in his IEP. Many of these issues are social skills that kids with AS/HFA are

struggling with. And many of these issues can be included in an IEP.

>

> Just off the top of my head, some of the things we worked on with my younger

ds for this: we had a notebook that went back and forth and teachers were

required to write things in there at times. Some teachers wrote volumes!

Others just jotted down a factoid now and then. Another thing we did was work

on a variety of social concept skills. We had him deliver messages at school -

from office to teacher and reverse, take notes and then remember without a note,

etc. We had him deliver messages from home to school and reverse, with and

without notes. He had to learn concepts of time and what they meant and we did

a lot of writing on calendars of events so he could look at the calendar and

give me an answer when I asked, " What did you do last week that was fun? " What

did we do yesterday? What did we last summer? We made a lot of booklets to

remember events with him because he did not remember things well. he spent a

lot of time in therapy working on noticing things he didn't usually pay

attention to (how does the little girl look? why? what is he thinking about?

How can you tell? etc.) He had a lot of goals related to problem solving as

well - what would do in this situation and why, etc. He was taught specifically

to tell mom or dad when he had a problem. He wouldn't have thought to do that

without prompting.

>

> We had goals set up for him to remember things from home to school and

reverse. For instance, I remember at first having to write down 3 things he did

that evening (show he watched, what he ate, game he played, that it rained hard,

etc.) and so when he got to school and his therapist would ask him what he did

that night, she had some prompts to help him learn how this works. And of

course, we did it in reverse so I could ask him, " What did you do today at

school? " and had prompts to ask him about if he didn't have an answer. It also

helped to know what they were studying in various classes so I could discuss it

with him. All of this helped reinforce his learning and his memory.

>

> Anyway, some ideas for this kind of problem.

>

>

>

>

> Roxanna

> Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

>

>

>

>

>

> ( ) How would u address after school anxiety and

shut-down?

>

>

>

>

>

> Looking to address this in the iep. My son often comes home from school (I

pick him up) non-verbal or refusing to talk about his day. When I do get him to

open up there's been an incident or issue that caused him a bad day. Yesterday,

for instance, there was a classroom activity that the teacher asked the kids to

color. My son was adamant that he didn't want to color (I can't remember if my

son has ever colored. He doesn't enjoy it honestly) The teacher kept on him to

color and when my son wouldn't my son said she continuted to tell him to do it.

(imposing her will on an asperger's child is so inaffective)He broke down crying

and they kept him out of P.E. and recess.

>

> I had to find out through my son what happened as the school didn't tell me

anything. Issues here of transparency.

>

> BUT, back to the idea of showing that my son is affected by his bad day's at

school. At the last iep mtg, when I brought up how my son soemtimes doesn't talk

hours after school, they said, " well, it's not affecting his performance at

school. " I brought up that IDEA isn't only academic but they didn't want to hear

it.

>

> What would you do to address any of these issues? Thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Roxanna <MadIdeas@...> wrote:

 

,this is an old post I had saved to reply to.  I don't remember if I actually did reply or not so I hope I am not repeating myself.  Many times, I have sat at an IEP meeting to hear how this or that was not a concern for them so it didn't matter, even though it was a big deal to me and to my ds.  I think the key to your post is that they " didn't want to hear it. "   This to me, means you have to step things up a bit and be a bit pushier about this. I am probably as pushiest parent in the school actually. I often felt that even if they didn't care about a particular problem, it mattered to me.  So they would care because I cared, if nothing else.  <g> I wish that were the case here. They keep saying that we don't see his academics being affected at school even though you claim when he gets home he's overloaded.

If it were me, I would go to the next meeting armed with information and factoids.  I would make a copy of the " purpose " section of the IDEA, a copy for each team member.  My advocate quoted IDEA about this very issue. I would read it aloud at the meeting, then introduce the problem I am wanting to address, then ask them how we will address this.  Do not ask them if it's a problem for them, do not ask them if they want to address this or anything like that.  Just be purposeful (this will be addressed!) and say, " This is a problem, it's covered as something to be dealt with within the IDEA and now we need to come up with some ideas for his IEP to address this. "   If they still refuse to address this, I would write a follow up letter noting that this is a problem, you've asked several times to receive help in dealing with it and would like their refusal to address this in writing with a reason why they refuse and what they considered in making this decision.  I am super frustrated beyond belief here. At the last IEP mtg. I did request a FBA to the spec. ed coordinator  for a BCBA person. I got a letter from the dir. of spec. ed denying my request for an IEE. THEN, I get a phone call from the dir. of spec. ed.  before I had even gotten the letter asking me if I asked for an IEE or a FBA.  I wished I hadn't answered the call. I wrote another official letter after getting the denial and addressing the (blatant) mix-up of requests and still asking for the FBA with a BCBA person and cited the most recent incidents for my son (one involved my son getting angry at another child and then grabbing their arm and drawing blood. However, at the IEP mtg. I also brought this up and the school said it was an isolated incident and they don't think my son needs a bip and they don't know what specific behaviors to look for in a FBA)

Sometimes just putting it in writing and using the " prior written notice " which is required can help make them care that you care.  They realize you are not letting this go and it is the law and they had better figure something out.  Other times, they may still not care that you care.  In that case, if you do not receive a reply or receive a reply explaining why they don't care, you then take it up the food chain to the next person in line. 

As always, have data to support your position.  Have some ideas to suggest/at least a general idea of what you want from them.  If you can have documentation from another outside expert (therapist, counselor, etc) that helps but it isn't required.  I have evaluations that were done in the area that gives suggestions and input as to my son's issues and they've all but discarded them. None of the suggestions were put into the IEP drafts the school made. They've minimized him and fall back on, we don't see it at school. Provide proof that you have tried to get help and have been ignored or denied (always write follow ups!!)  I made a calendar that I've noted the bad days. I accumulated 4 months and it shows at least weekly incidents. And of course, make sure you are within the law in asking for what you are asking.  Then start moving up the food chain.  (Because of a more serious incident

I have found that usually, you will get results before long.  And like I said, they may still not care.  But they will learn to care that you care.  <g> I'm honeslty not hopfeful on this account. I'm contemplating pulling him out to homeschool, but honestly don't know if I'm emotionally equipped to school my son. I don't know how he would fare either.

As for the problem, I think it is common for kids with autism to have this problem.  My older ds (HFA) had this problem to the extreme and even if he was beaten up at school, he would not come home and tell us what happened or that anything happened.  With my younger ds (HFA), we specifically targeted all areas related to this and he does much better at this. 

You have to really tease out the underlying issues that are not working right for this problem.  It might be a different combination of issues for each specific child and not just one pat problem with one pat answer.  For instance, my older ds had a severe language delay that often caused him to say as little as possible at all times.  He is still like this.  getting info from him is like pulling teeth.  But along with that, he did not know how to tell important information from unimportant information.  He did not know how to solve problems or realize that telling mom and dad was a step in solving a problem.  

I think with my son the biggest hurdles are fitting in socially--unstructured times and small group projects; and not recognizing that he's getting overloaded and then how to cope with that mounting frustration.

There are also problems related to memory - short term and long term memory issues can often be happening for kids with learning problems or AS/HFA.  and time can be an issue as well.  My youngest ds had the worst time learning days of the week, what it means by " yesterday, today, tomorrow " and concepts like that.  he's very gifted otherwise, so you would have assumed he'd " get it " but wow, he was totally lost!  So asking him " What happened today? " was a real problem since he had no clue what you meant by " today " to begin with.  Then he didn't remember what he was doing from hour to hour.  He didn't pay attention to social aspects like typical kids - the weather, the kids he played with, what his mom looked like, that he was having fun, etc.  <g>  all of this kind of mushed together to create the problem.

So you need to give it some thought as to why your ds is having a problem relating information from school to home and look at ways to include these areas in his IEP.  Many of these issues are social skills that kids with AS/HFA are struggling with.  And many of these issues can be included in an IEP.

Just off the top of my head, some of the things we worked on with my younger ds for this:  we had a notebook that went back and forth and teachers were required to write things in there at times.  Some teachers wrote volumes!  I have this and the teacher complained to the V.P. that I write too much. Not true. I write when there's an issue. She would write to blow smoke up my ass about nonsense i.e., how wonderful my son did on a project he was making--this is the same one that my son came home crying about because he was forced by teacher to make it more " eye-catching. " That teacher was a complete idiot.  Others just jotted down a factoid now and then.  Another thing we did was work on a variety of social concept skills.  We had him deliver messages at school - from office to teacher and reverse, take notes and then remember without a note, etc.  We had him deliver messages from home to school and reverse, with and without notes.  He had to learn concepts of time and what they meant and we did a lot of writing on calendars of events so he could look at the calendar and give me an answer when I asked, " What did you do last week that was fun? "   What did we do yesterday?  What did we last summer?  We made a lot of booklets to remember events with him because he did not remember things well.  he spent a lot of time in therapy working on noticing things he didn't usually pay attention to (how does the little girl look?  why?  what is he thinking about?  How can you tell?  etc.)  He had a lot of goals related to problem solving as well - what would do in this situation and why, etc.  He was taught specifically to tell mom or dad when he had a problem.  He wouldn't have thought to do that without prompting. 

We had goals set up for him to remember things from home to school and reverse.  For instance, I remember at first having to write down 3 things he did that evening (show he watched, what he ate, game he played, that it rained hard, etc.) and so when he got to school and his therapist would ask him what he did that night, she had some prompts to help him learn how this works.  And of course, we did it in reverse so I could ask him, " What did you do today at school? " and had prompts to ask him about if he didn't have an answer.  It also helped to know what they were studying in various classes so I could discuss it with him.  All of this helped reinforce his learning and his memory.  I like this idea and will make an attempt with son to see how he resonds.

Anyway, some ideas for this kind of problem.  Thanks for the input, I just can't help feeling like I'm just keeping my head barely above water. It's really affecting me and my husband sees it too.

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

( ) How would u address after school anxiety and shut-down?

 

Looking to address this in the iep. My son often comes home from school (I pick him up) non-verbal or refusing to talk about his day. When I do get him to open up there's been an incident or issue that caused him a bad day. Yesterday, for instance, there was a classroom activity that the teacher asked the kids to color. My son was adamant that he didn't want to color (I can't remember if my son has ever colored. He doesn't enjoy it honestly) The teacher kept on him to color and when my son wouldn't my son said she continuted to tell him to do it. (imposing her will on an asperger's child is so inaffective)He broke down crying and they kept him out of P.E. and recess.

I had to find out through my son what happened as the school didn't tell me anything. Issues here of transparency.BUT, back to the idea of showing that my son is affected by his bad day's at school. At the last iep mtg, when I brought up how my son soemtimes doesn't talk hours after school, they said, " well, it's not affecting his performance at school. " I brought up that IDEA isn't only academic but they didn't want to hear it.

What would you do to address any of these issues? Thanks!

[Guest guest]

,

I can really feel your frustration and I have been there many times. Sometimes we stayed to fight and other times, I just pulled the kid out. I can't say one is better or worse. It depends on your own situation and needs. I was wondering if he has an social skill goals in his IEP?

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

( ) How would u address after school anxiety and shut-down?

Looking to address this in the iep. My son often comes home from school (I pick him up) non-verbal or refusing to talk about his day. When I do get him to open up there's been an incident or issue that caused him a bad day. Yesterday, for instance, there was a classroom activity that the teacher asked the kids to color. My son was adamant that he didn't want to color (I can't remember if my son has ever colored. He doesn't enjoy it honestly) The teacher kept on him to color and when my son wouldn't my son said she continuted to tell him to do it. (imposing her will on an asperger's child is so inaffective)He broke down crying and they kept him out of P.E. and recess.

I had to find out through my son what happened as the school didn't tell me anything. Issues here of transparency.

BUT, back to the idea of showing that my son is affected by his bad day's at school. At the last iep mtg, when I brought up how my son soemtimes doesn't talk hours after school, they said, "well, it's not affecting his performance at school." I brought up that IDEA isn't only academic but they didn't want to hear it.

What would you do to address any of these issues? Thanks!