Re: Son did not qualify for IEP

October 15, 2010

let the documentation begin - they will say this now but if you present enough hard evidence they will not be able to ignore you forever in the face of hard evidence that could be used in court for due process later

From: bridget <beanniferj@...>Subject: ( ) Son did not qualify for IEP Date: Friday, October 15, 2010, 12:57 PM

Hi all,You all have given me a lot of sound advice about negotiating the process to get my son qualified for preschool services and an IEP through the school district. Anyway, I just wanted to follow up and let you know how it went...not well. They ultimately decided that my son does fit one of the categories for disability (strangely enough, it was the school psychologist who said to mark "yes" for autism spectrum disorder - I say it was strange because she made it clear in her report that she does not see enough to give that diagnosis, despite elevated markers on the ASRS checklist). However, they said he copes too well in school to show a need for special education services. As the director put it, early intervention is designed to be proactive and the school district services are designed to be reactive. They may all believe that a child is at risk and shows concerning behaviors, but if he is not a hot mess at school, it does not

matter. Minimal weight was given to the fact that he is receiving therapy outside of school 3 days a week to prepare him to cope with peers and the school setting. Our advocate basically said that at least they found my son to fit into a category of disability, so that if his problems at school become more severe, it will be easier to revisit the issue of services. Very frustrating, to say the least. Bridget

October 15, 2010

Bridget, Who gave your son his Asperger diagnosis? We cannot rely on

the school for this because they will not give it. Your son DOES

qualify, you just need a developmental pediatrician to diagnose him

and fight for it again. (unfortunately) :-/

Jen

5yo Aspie

On 10/15/2010 1:57 PM, bridget wrote:

Hi all,

You all have given me a lot of sound advice about

negotiating the process to get my son qualified for

preschool services and an IEP through the school district.

Anyway, I just wanted to follow up and let you know how it

went...not well. They ultimately decided that my son does

fit one of the categories for disability (strangely

enough, it was the school psychologist who said to mark

"yes" for autism spectrum disorder - I say it was strange

because she made it clear in her report that she does not

see enough to give that diagnosis, despite elevated

markers on the ASRS checklist).

However, they said he copes too well in school to show a

need for special education services. As the director put

it, early intervention is designed to be proactive and the

school district services are designed to be reactive. They

may all believe that a child is at risk and shows

concerning behaviors, but if he is not a hot mess at

school, it does not matter. Minimal weight was given to

the fact that he is receiving therapy outside of school 3

days a week to prepare him to cope with peers and the

school setting. Our advocate basically said that at least

they found my son to fit into a category of disability, so

that if his problems at school become more severe, it will

be easier to revisit the issue of services. Very

frustrating, to say the least.

Bridget

October 16, 2010

Hi ,

My son does not have an official dx yet, beyond sensory processing disorder. He

is just 3 years old, and we are currently on the waiting list to be evaluated at

TEACCH. I have not had any luck so far finding a psychologist or doctor outside

of TEACCH who is both experienced at evaluating children that young and who will

accept his insurance, which is why we continue to wait. The suspicion of AS (or

maybe PDD-NOS) is from observation by me, the developmental therapist, and

occupational therapist, as well as highly elevated results on the ASRS checklist

done through the school district. I am sure you are correct that having an

official dx will help our case with preschool services.

One of the big issues we are having now is less that they doubt that my son has

genuine issues that need to be addressed, and more that they think he is coping

well enough in school. (Which I believe is because he is already getting OT and

developmental therapy outside of school.)He was only in school for about a month

when the observation and teacher questionnaire were completed; hopefully as the

teachers get to know my son better, they will be able to provide a stronger

statement of concern, which is one thing I am confident would help to mitigate

the results of the observation the school district did. When we get more

supportive information, either from teachers or an eventual dx, I plan to

revisit the question of eligibility with the school district. As my advocate

pointed out, they did find my son to fit into a category of disability, it just

has to be proven that he needs special education services to access all aspects

of his education.

Thanks for your ideas,

Bridget

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > You all have given me a lot of sound advice about negotiating the

> > process to get my son qualified for preschool services and an IEP

> > through the school district. Anyway, I just wanted to follow up and

> > let you know how it went...not well. They ultimately decided that my

> > son does fit one of the categories for disability (strangely enough,

> > it was the school psychologist who said to mark " yes " for autism

> > spectrum disorder - I say it was strange because she made it clear in

> > her report that she does not see enough to give that diagnosis,

> > despite elevated markers on the ASRS checklist).

> >

> > However, they said he copes too well in school to show a need for

> > special education services. As the director put it, early intervention

> > is designed to be proactive and the school district services are

> > designed to be reactive. They may all believe that a child is at risk

> > and shows concerning behaviors, but if he is not a hot mess at school,

> > it does not matter. Minimal weight was given to the fact that he is

> > receiving therapy outside of school 3 days a week to prepare him to

> > cope with peers and the school setting. Our advocate basically said

> > that at least they found my son to fit into a category of disability,

> > so that if his problems at school become more severe, it will be

> > easier to revisit the issue of services. Very frustrating, to say the

> > least.

> >

> > Bridget

> >

>

October 16, 2010

I don't understand. Did he qualify for an IEP/services or not? You said he didn't but then said the advocate says at least he fits into a category of disability? so I'm confused at what happened. Is he receiving services for his hand? Is that what it means?

Holy cow - the director is saying that a child has to be failing first before receiving services. That is a very old school (ha!) approach to sped services. They used to say that to us back in the day and my oldest is 29 yo now. (Please do not do the math on that statistic either...) What I would do is write a letter stating your disagreement with the decision. Restate what was told to you for the record and why you disagree. I would also request a copy of the criteria for eligibility so that you can see what exactly is being considered/judged. I would restate how the team is not putting weight on the outside services he is receiving and how this is required. I would also ask if it is the school's policy to let children fail before they are deemed eligible and if so, you want that policy in writing. Be sure to include the director's words about sped being "reactive" and not "proactive." In truth, the swing is going the entirely opposite direction. You can certainly find documentation to that effect - just look up articles discussing "RtI" or "response to intervention" which is their new thing to proactively work on learning problems before they develop into bigger learning problems. Also you can cite "NCLB" or "no child left behind" which has the same premise - do not wait for kids to fail and be left behind before applying the science behind remediation that we already know. Always challenge these kinds of statements either in person at the meeting or by writing a follow up.

If any of their reports do not seem accurate, you can also request an outside "independent educational evaluation" (IEE) at their expense. Then you can bring in someone independent to weigh in on the matter. I have found that this is a handy tool to use on a number of occasions.

Just for an example, our pre-k program had the criteria spelled out - the child had to be so far behind in one developmental category or behind in several categories by so much. It made getting qualified a lot easier to have it spelled out that way. I would find out what your school criteria is. If they do not have any, yikes. And then I would look to the state for criteria, start asking for criteria up the food chain.

that is ironic that the pscyh voted yes. lol. Sometimes I think they enjoy yanking our chains. I still get really upset with these people who are so wishy washy in writing but otherwise encouraging. To me, it's a classic passive/aggressive style and does not help the child but allows them to "feel good" about themselves in the process.

Sad to say, but schools are ruled by the dollar and right now, costs are being cut all over. If a school says to cut spending, they certainly do not leave out the sped kids. Anyway, so sorry to hear it went badly for you. That stinks. Don't give up. You may want to find a more aggressive advocate (if you feel this one was not pushy enough.)

Roxanna

"I

predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Jefferson

( ) Son did not qualify for IEP

Hi all,

You all have given me a lot of sound advice about negotiating the process to get my son qualified for preschool services and an IEP through the school district. Anyway, I just wanted to follow up and let you know how it went...not well. They ultimately decided that my son does fit one of the categories for disability (strangely enough, it was the school psychologist who said to mark "yes" for autism spectrum disorder - I say it was strange because she made it clear in her report that she does not see enough to give that diagnosis, despite elevated markers on the ASRS checklist).

However, they said he copes too well in school to show a need for special education services. As the director put it, early intervention is designed to be proactive and the school district services are designed to be reactive. They may all believe that a child is at risk and shows concerning behaviors, but if he is not a hot mess at school, it does not matter. Minimal weight was given to the fact that he is receiving therapy outside of school 3 days a week to prepare him to cope with peers and the school setting. Our advocate basically said that at least they found my son to fit into a category of disability, so that if his problems at school become more severe, it will be easier to revisit the issue of services. Very frustrating, to say the least.

Bridget

October 16, 2010

Hi Roxanna,

He did not qualify. To qualify, they have to find that the child has a

disability that fits within one of the specific categories AND that it is

impeding their ability to access their educational experiences in school (which

in preschool are considered to be functional, not so much academic). So they

said " yes " to box 1 (disability) and " no " to box 2, that the child's access to

FAPE is being impeded.

I was surprised that their psychologist said to mark " yes " for qualifying

disability (which she said would be autism spectrum) at all, given that she

declined to do an ADOS test after seeing him in a peer setting, despite elevated

scores on the ASRS checklist (at this point, I would not have her do the ADOS

anyway, since she would not be impartial). Honestly, I almost felt like she was

throwing me a bone. They do have specific numbers about developmental delay: 30%

in one area or 25% in two areas. My son definitely fell within those ranges in

certain subcategories (self-care was 33% delay, but total adaptive was not as

significantly delayed and emotional themes in play was also 33% delay, but total

social/emotional tally was not as significantly delayed), but not in total for

the categories.

My son did not qualify for services based on his little hand because (and this

just kills me) occupational therapy cannot be a standalone service. If they

could qualify him based on needing OT alone, I think it would have been much

easier, because in addition to the visible hand anomaly, we do have an IEE with

the sensory processing dx, a supporting letter confirming that dx from his

current OT, and firsthand observations of sensory seeking/avoiding reported by

school district OT and my son's teachers.

I am going to very carefully review your advice and start working to confirm

some of their statements from the meeting in writing. Those were great tips

about documenting the system being reactive and compare that to NCLB. I think

that I am not going to appeal or dive into due process at this point, because I

want to get more supportive information in writing from other sources

(especially teachers, if they see more concerns develop as they better get to

know my son). Just preparing for the last meeting was so draining that honestly,

I would rather take a little longer to build a more clear cut case than try to

fight about gray areas right now.

As for an outside IEE, I feel like the one we really need is the ADOS, and it

just takes time to get seen for that. Are there other definitive tests you are

aware of (not specifically for autism spectrum) that could show developmental

delay in social/emotional? We have letters of support from the developmental

therapist stating the areas of concern she has been seeing my son for, as well

as the treatments she is using (all of which are for autism spectrum), however

there was no official test.

One concern I am starting to have about ADOS is if the social stuff might be too

hard to clearly evaluate when the child is just over 3 (which I assume is why a

lot of young kids are initially dx PDD-NOS) - maybe it is not such a bad thing

to wait to administer the test? We are currently on a 9 month waiting list at

TEACCH. My son is not easy to figure out at a glance; the people who spend a lot

of time with him seem to get a clear picture (including his therapists, parents,

and parents of his friends), but those who meet him for an hour a couple of

times definitely do not.

Thanks so much for your insight and suggestions!

Bridget

>

> I don't understand. Did he qualify for an IEP/services or not? You said he

didn't but then said the advocate says at least he fits into a category of

disability? so I'm confused at what happened. Is he receiving services for his

hand? Is that what it means?

>

> Holy cow - the director is saying that a child has to be failing first before

receiving services. That is a very old school (ha!) approach to sped services.

They used to say that to us back in the day and my oldest is 29 yo now. (Please

do not do the math on that statistic either...) What I would do is write a

letter stating your disagreement with the decision. Restate what was told to

you for the record and why you disagree. I would also request a copy of the

criteria for eligibility so that you can see what exactly is being

considered/judged. I would restate how the team is not putting weight on the

outside services he is receiving and how this is required. I would also ask if

it is the school's policy to let children fail before they are deemed eligible

and if so, you want that policy in writing. Be sure to include the director's

words about sped being " reactive " and not " proactive. " In truth, the swing is

going the entirely opposite direction. You can certainly find documentation to

that effect - just look up articles discussing " RtI " or " response to

intervention " which is their new thing to proactively work on learning problems

before they develop into bigger learning problems. Also you can cite " NCLB " or

" no child left behind " which has the same premise - do not wait for kids to fail

and be left behind before applying the science behind remediation that we

already know. Always challenge these kinds of statements either in person at

the meeting or by writing a follow up.

>

> If any of their reports do not seem accurate, you can also request an outside

" independent educational evaluation " (IEE) at their expense. Then you can bring

in someone independent to weigh in on the matter. I have found that this is a

handy tool to use on a number of occasions.

>

> Just for an example, our pre-k program had the criteria spelled out - the

child had to be so far behind in one developmental category or behind in several

categories by so much. It made getting qualified a lot easier to have it

spelled out that way. I would find out what your school criteria is. If they

do not have any, yikes. And then I would look to the state for criteria, start

asking for criteria up the food chain.

>

> that is ironic that the pscyh voted yes. lol. Sometimes I think they enjoy

yanking our chains. I still get really upset with these people who are so wishy

washy in writing but otherwise encouraging. To me, it's a classic

passive/aggressive style and does not help the child but allows them to " feel

good " about themselves in the process.

>

> Sad to say, but schools are ruled by the dollar and right now, costs are being

cut all over. If a school says to cut spending, they certainly do not leave out

the sped kids. Anyway, so sorry to hear it went badly for you. That stinks.

Don't give up. You may want to find a more aggressive advocate (if you feel

this one was not pushy enough.)

>

> Roxanna

> " I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government

from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of

them. " - Jefferson

>

> ( ) Son did not qualify for IEP

>

> Hi all,

>

> You all have given me a lot of sound advice about negotiating the process to

get my son qualified for preschool services and an IEP through the school

district. Anyway, I just wanted to follow up and let you know how it went...not

well. They ultimately decided that my son does fit one of the categories for

disability (strangely enough, it was the school psychologist who said to mark

" yes " for autism spectrum disorder - I say it was strange because she made it

clear in her report that she does not see enough to give that diagnosis, despite

elevated markers on the ASRS checklist).

>

> However, they said he copes too well in school to show a need for special

education services. As the director put it, early intervention is designed to be

proactive and the school district services are designed to be reactive. They may

all believe that a child is at risk and shows concerning behaviors, but if he is

not a hot mess at school, it does not matter. Minimal weight was given to the

fact that he is receiving therapy outside of school 3 days a week to prepare him

to cope with peers and the school setting. Our advocate basically said that at

least they found my son to fit into a category of disability, so that if his

problems at school become more severe, it will be easier to revisit the issue of

services. Very frustrating, to say the least.

>

> Bridget

>

October 16, 2010

they tell alot of us that. It tooks me three years to get mine the IEP and help he needed - don't give up, the older they get the more help they need. In the younger grades there is a lot of variance so they do not recognize as much of a differences as when they get older- ask for an IEE to include a third party observation bya neuropsychiatrist of him int he classroom and non classroom settings.

From: bridget <beanniferj@...>Subject: Re: ( ) Son did not qualify for IEP Date: Saturday, October 16, 2010, 10:31 AM

Hi Roxanna,He did not qualify. To qualify, they have to find that the child has a disability that fits within one of the specific categories AND that it is impeding their ability to access their educational experiences in school (which in preschool are considered to be functional, not so much academic). So they said "yes" to box 1 (disability) and "no" to box 2, that the child's access to FAPE is being impeded. I was surprised that their psychologist said to mark "yes" for qualifying disability (which she said would be autism spectrum) at all, given that she declined to do an ADOS test after seeing him in a peer setting, despite elevated scores on the ASRS checklist (at this point, I would not have her do the ADOS anyway, since she would not be impartial). Honestly, I almost felt like she was throwing me a bone. They do have specific numbers about developmental delay: 30% in one area or 25% in two areas. My son definitely fell

within those ranges in certain subcategories (self-care was 33% delay, but total adaptive was not as significantly delayed and emotional themes in play was also 33% delay, but total social/emotional tally was not as significantly delayed), but not in total for the categories. My son did not qualify for services based on his little hand because (and this just kills me) occupational therapy cannot be a standalone service. If they could qualify him based on needing OT alone, I think it would have been much easier, because in addition to the visible hand anomaly, we do have an IEE with the sensory processing dx, a supporting letter confirming that dx from his current OT, and firsthand observations of sensory seeking/avoiding reported by school district OT and my son's teachers. I am going to very carefully review your advice and start working to confirm some of their statements from the meeting in writing. Those were great tips about

documenting the system being reactive and compare that to NCLB. I think that I am not going to appeal or dive into due process at this point, because I want to get more supportive information in writing from other sources (especially teachers, if they see more concerns develop as they better get to know my son). Just preparing for the last meeting was so draining that honestly, I would rather take a little longer to build a more clear cut case than try to fight about gray areas right now. As for an outside IEE, I feel like the one we really need is the ADOS, and it just takes time to get seen for that. Are there other definitive tests you are aware of (not specifically for autism spectrum) that could show developmental delay in social/emotional? We have letters of support from the developmental therapist stating the areas of concern she has been seeing my son for, as well as the treatments she is using (all of which are for autism spectrum),

however there was no official test. One concern I am starting to have about ADOS is if the social stuff might be too hard to clearly evaluate when the child is just over 3 (which I assume is why a lot of young kids are initially dx PDD-NOS) - maybe it is not such a bad thing to wait to administer the test? We are currently on a 9 month waiting list at TEACCH. My son is not easy to figure out at a glance; the people who spend a lot of time with him seem to get a clear picture (including his therapists, parents, and parents of his friends), but those who meet him for an hour a couple of times definitely do not. Thanks so much for your insight and suggestions!Bridget>> I don't understand. Did he qualify for an IEP/services or not? You said he didn't but then said the advocate says at least he fits into a category of disability? so I'm confused at what happened. Is he receiving services for his hand? Is that what it means?> > Holy cow - the director is saying that a child has to be failing first before receiving services. That is a very old school (ha!) approach to sped services. They used to say that to us back in the day and my oldest is 29 yo now. (Please do not do the math on that statistic either...) What I would do is write a letter stating your disagreement with the decision. Restate what was told to you for the record and why you disagree. I would also request a copy of the criteria for eligibility so that you can see what exactly is being considered/judged. I would restate how the team is not putting weight on the outside services he is receiving and how this is required. I

would also ask if it is the school's policy to let children fail before they are deemed eligible and if so, you want that policy in writing. Be sure to include the director's words about sped being "reactive" and not "proactive." In truth, the swing is going the entirely opposite direction. You can certainly find documentation to that effect - just look up articles discussing "RtI" or "response to intervention" which is their new thing to proactively work on learning problems before they develop into bigger learning problems. Also you can cite "NCLB" or "no child left behind" which has the same premise - do not wait for kids to fail and be left behind before applying the science behind remediation that we already know. Always challenge these kinds of statements either in person at the meeting or by writing a follow up. > > If any of their reports do not seem accurate, you can also request an outside "independent educational evaluation"

(IEE) at their expense. Then you can bring in someone independent to weigh in on the matter. I have found that this is a handy tool to use on a number of occasions. > > Just for an example, our pre-k program had the criteria spelled out - the child had to be so far behind in one developmental category or behind in several categories by so much. It made getting qualified a lot easier to have it spelled out that way. I would find out what your school criteria is. If they do not have any, yikes. And then I would look to the state for criteria, start asking for criteria up the food chain. > > that is ironic that the pscyh voted yes. lol. Sometimes I think they enjoy yanking our chains. I still get really upset with these people who are so wishy washy in writing but otherwise encouraging. To me, it's a classic passive/aggressive style and does not help the child but allows them to "feel good" about themselves in the process.

> > Sad to say, but schools are ruled by the dollar and right now, costs are being cut all over. If a school says to cut spending, they certainly do not leave out the sped kids. Anyway, so sorry to hear it went badly for you. That stinks. Don't give up. You may want to find a more aggressive advocate (if you feel this one was not pushy enough.) > > > > > Roxanna> "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Jefferson> > > > > > ( ) Son did not qualify for IEP> > > > > > Hi all,> > You all have given me a lot of sound advice about negotiating the process to get my son qualified for preschool services and an IEP through the school district. Anyway, I just wanted to follow up and let you know how it went...not well. They ultimately decided that my son does fit one of the categories for disability (strangely enough, it was the school psychologist who said to mark "yes" for autism spectrum disorder - I say it was strange because she made it clear in her report that she does not see enough to give that diagnosis, despite elevated markers on the ASRS checklist). > > However, they said he copes too well in school to show a need for special education services. As the director put it, early intervention is designed to be proactive and the school district services are

designed to be reactive. They may all believe that a child is at risk and shows concerning behaviors, but if he is not a hot mess at school, it does not matter. Minimal weight was given to the fact that he is receiving therapy outside of school 3 days a week to prepare him to cope with peers and the school setting. Our advocate basically said that at least they found my son to fit into a category of disability, so that if his problems at school become more severe, it will be easier to revisit the issue of services. Very frustrating, to say the least. > > Bridget>

October 16, 2010

Roxanna, I also wanted to share a few things from the official minutes from the

meeting to see how you think they tie in with your suggestions. " Parent

questioned how much we consider the impact of being prepared for school by the

outside therapies/supports. School psychologist explained that that is really

the difference between early intervention and school based services. But that

based on the school's reports, they don't feel that the child needs extra

supports at school and we need to focus on the educational impact. " In other

words, that was the discussion about early intervention being proactive and

school services being reactive. That exact quote is not in the minutes.

I should add that my son's teachers did say that my son requires more management

and attention than the other children in the class, but that they are not sure

how much of that is age or if it is indicative of something more. So yes,

teacher reports could have been more supportive in their conclusions, but they

did list behavior observed like sensory defensiveness with other students,

pushing in line, touching other children to point of irritation, invading

personal space, being overly dramatic, and more. His teachers are excellent, and

they are willing to put in the extra effort to anticipate his triggers and try

to step in before a flare up - but to me that says that there are real areas of

concern, especially given that he is already in therapy for those issues!

Also from the official minutes regarding having a qualifying disability: " He

does meet criteria for ASD, but it does not have an adverse effect on

educational performance and does not require specialized instruction. "

So there you have it in a nutshell.

Thanks for your ideas!