Re: Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?

[Guest guest]

Writing has been a massive issue for us, to the point where dd refused to pick up or use a pen/pencil/crayon for colouring, drawing or writing for over a year. I have the luxury of home schooling her and backed off completely until she voluntarily picked up a pencil and began to draw and write again (keeping my nerve and trusting my gut reaction whilst waiting was the hardest bit!). This time around it seems her finger control has developed in the background and she is much better at forming the letters etc and she is more emotionally ready to be corrected on how she forms her letters and that the need for them to be legible now matters if she wishes others to understand her. From downing all implements at 6, it took until she was almost 8 before she began over.

In the meantime I would decide what the valuable part of any assignment was - is it more important she can use a dictionary and record the meaning of a word but on the computer, or is it more important she writes down the whole exercise but never wants to see pen, paper or dictionary again? Is the goal she can spell the words on the test correctly but verbally or has a meltdown because she has to write them and will get them wrong because she is so distressed? I don't know if any of this can be adapted for school work? Surely the primary goal is that the student learns and recalls the information more than the method they use to prove they recalled it? I know essay writing has its place and they need to learn to write but the more it is pushed, the more they resist.

For Aspie's writing seems to be a multi-step process more than it is for NT's.

Step one: figure out what is going on in their head

Step two: put the ideas into words (usually verbally)

Step three: record the ideas so they are not forgotten (seems to be a common problem)

Step four: write the ideas down in essay form - but they seem to then hit problems on sentence construction, remembering capital letters in the right places and punctuation and this all overwhelms and stifles the original ideas and thoughts so they get lost. Writing - the physical forming of letters and controlling a pen, holding the paper, constructing letters into words doesn't seem to have the fluidity and flow to the same level that NT's usually have, the physical effort of controlling the different moving surfaces seems overwhelming for them before they even get to express their thoughts.

Perhaps breaking down the steps and practising each part separately might help? School and writing seems to be like expecting a toddler to put on their shoes and tie the laces as part of the process of learning to walk, not as separate parts of a whole that develops over time - they leap from forming letters to sentences to paragraphs etc but the thought process of the child of what they wish to express hasn't developed enough yet to have an innate desire to put it on paper.

These are more random thoughts than real constructive help. Someone else might be able to provide more practical tips,

a

From: O'Brien

Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 2:22 PM

Subject: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?

Since you brought it up, a I’m going to spin off this topic onto another… writing issues. CLEARLY this is common with Aspie’s, as I’ve heard it mentioned a LOT. We are currently struggling with this. ’s taken a real aversion to “Language Arts” of any kind, because it has so much writing in it. I know he often struggles to get his thoughts and ideas from his head to the paper, but that’s not the problem now… it’s just plain WRITING!

His teacher has really backed off on the “cursive” requirements for , as he gets INCREDIBLY frustrated with it – but any kind of writing, even if it’s just copying a sentence from a book onto a worksheet, and he complains. Several Language arts periods at school have gone on with NO work, and getting him to do vocabulary homework, where he has to copy a sentence from the book, and then look up and write down the word’s definition, for example, are met with resistance and frustration. Even coloring, which is something he used to GREATLY enjoy, has been a frustration point for him as of late.

What kinds of things do you all recommend to help him with this, aside from OT? Is there anything we can do, or the school can do, to assist him, while we wait to speak to an OT?

Thanks in advance, all !!

=)

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of a Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 5:35 AM Subject: RE: ( ) does this happen to your child.. math?

You are SO not alone on this one in our house!!!!!! As writing has been an issue I thought I was being clever and getting maths workbooks (we homeschool) with number stickers for the answers. The answer stickers were bright and colourful but they did not follow a colour pattern when put into the sums – that was a massive disaster with tears, meltdowns etc and those workbooks mysteriously disappeared into the night, some things are so not worth the fight! She also couldn’t cope with a page of putting the answers at the end of the sum and then moving on to have to figure the answers in the middle of the sum eg she went from “4 + 4 = ___” to “4 + ___ = 8” even though she was very capable of doing the work the different look of the sum caused a meltdown.

You are not alone!

a

[Guest guest]

Nope, so not alone! My 10 yr old has always had a terrible time writing

anything. It has been the physical aspect of handwriting in addition to getting

the ideas out and on paper in some order. I have not found an eas solution,

cause really what is easy for us? But, I will say that I have really tried to

push typing and it is starting to really help. He fought me on that for quite

awhile too, but he is starting to type things and it I am seeing a positive

difference in his work actually being readible and making sense. Also, I did

buy a Spongebob typing program.

Good luck!

Kelli

>

> Since you brought it up, a I'm going to spin off this topic onto

> another. writing issues. CLEARLY this is common with Aspie's, as I've heard

> it mentioned a LOT. We are currently struggling with this. 's taken a

> real aversion to " Language Arts " of any kind, because it has so much writing

> in it. I know he often struggles to get his thoughts and ideas from his head

> to the paper, but that's not the problem now. it's just plain WRITING!

>

>

>

> His teacher has really backed off on the " cursive " requirements for ,

> as he gets INCREDIBLY frustrated with it - but any kind of writing, even if

> it's just copying a sentence from a book onto a worksheet, and he complains.

> Several Language arts periods at school have gone on with NO work, and

> getting him to do vocabulary homework, where he has to copy a sentence from

> the book, and then look up and write down the word's definition, for

> example, are met with resistance and frustration. Even coloring, which is

> something he used to GREATLY enjoy, has been a frustration point for him as

> of late.

>

>

>

> What kinds of things do you all recommend to help him with this, aside from

> OT? Is there anything we can do, or the school can do, to assist him, while

> we wait to speak to an OT?

>

>

>

> Thanks in advance, all !!

>

>

>

> =)

>

>

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On Behalf Of a

> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 5:35 AM

>

> Subject: RE: ( ) does this happen to your child.. math?

>

>

>

>

>

> You are SO not alone on this one in our house!!!!!! As writing has been an

> issue I thought I was being clever and getting maths workbooks (we

> homeschool) with number stickers for the answers. The answer stickers were

> bright and colourful but they did not follow a colour pattern when put into

> the sums - that was a massive disaster with tears, meltdowns etc and those

> workbooks mysteriously disappeared into the night, some things are so not

> worth the fight! She also couldn't cope with a page of putting the answers

> at the end of the sum and then moving on to have to figure the answers in

> the middle of the sum eg she went from " 4 + 4 = ___ " to " 4 + ___ = 8 " even

> though she was very capable of doing the work the different look of the sum

> caused a meltdown.

>

>

>

> You are not alone!

>

>

>

> a

>

[Guest guest]

We also purchased the sponge bob typing program. :)From: kelliangelini <kelliangelini@...>Subject: ( ) Re: Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math? Date: Monday, March 22, 2010, 7:40 PM

Nope, so not alone! My 10 yr old has always had a terrible time writing anything. It has been the physical aspect of handwriting in addition to getting the ideas out and on paper in some order. I have not found an eas solution, cause really what is easy for us? But, I will say that I have really tried to push typing and it is starting to really help. He fought me on that for quite awhile too, but he is starting to type things and it I am seeing a positive difference in his work actually being readible and making sense. Also, I did buy a Spongebob typing program.

Good luck!

Kelli

>

> Since you brought it up, a I'm going to spin off this topic onto

> another. writing issues. CLEARLY this is common with Aspie's, as I've heard

> it mentioned a LOT. We are currently struggling with this. 's taken a

> real aversion to "Language Arts" of any kind, because it has so much writing

> in it. I know he often struggles to get his thoughts and ideas from his head

> to the paper, but that's not the problem now. it's just plain WRITING!

>

>

>

> His teacher has really backed off on the "cursive" requirements for ,

> as he gets INCREDIBLY frustrated with it - but any kind of writing, even if

> it's just copying a sentence from a book onto a worksheet, and he complains.

> Several Language arts periods at school have gone on with NO work, and

> getting him to do vocabulary homework, where he has to copy a sentence from

> the book, and then look up and write down the word's definition, for

> example, are met with resistance and frustration. Even coloring, which is

> something he used to GREATLY enjoy, has been a frustration point for him as

> of late.

>

>

>

> What kinds of things do you all recommend to help him with this, aside from

> OT? Is there anything we can do, or the school can do, to assist him, while

> we wait to speak to an OT?

>

>

>

> Thanks in advance, all !!

>

>

>

> =)

>

>

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On Behalf Of a

> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 5:35 AM

>

> Subject: RE: ( ) does this happen to your child.. math?

>

>

>

>

>

> You are SO not alone on this one in our house!!!!!! As writing has been an

> issue I thought I was being clever and getting maths workbooks (we

> homeschool) with number stickers for the answers. The answer stickers were

> bright and colourful but they did not follow a colour pattern when put into

> the sums - that was a massive disaster with tears, meltdowns etc and those

> workbooks mysteriously disappeared into the night, some things are so not

> worth the fight! She also couldn't cope with a page of putting the answers

> at the end of the sum and then moving on to have to figure the answers in

> the middle of the sum eg she went from "4 + 4 = ___" to "4 + ___ = 8" even

> though she was very capable of doing the work the different look of the sum

> caused a meltdown.

>

>

>

> You are not alone!

>

>

>

> a

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

This topic has been my concern for years. My son also has a hard time getting his ideas out on paper. Also, not knowing what's important to write. He can't keep up with taking notes. what he does is try to write everything and doesn't complete anything.

I also started him with typing his reports on the computer. HUGH help. He types on word excel and he has the visual to help him see mistakes and edit his work. He's getting better. he then loads his work on a tumbdrive and takes that to school and prints it out or makes changes if needed. We just started with this and I'm watching to see how well he developes this skill. It's a life skill for him that he can use through college. I'm also in the process of teaching him how to make folders and organize his work on the computer. to prevent his paper work from getting lost. (a back up on the computer helps) I'm also hoping to teach him to send (e-mail) himself reminders of events, test, or special dates he has to remember. Since he likes the computer - I think this would work better than leaving notes on the door or calendar which he often forgets to look at.

We tried that so many times without any progress. But I'm seeing progress with the computer. Also, With everything typed on the computer - he can check everything out in one spot. His notes, reminders, and save important information that he can go back to / to use as a reference if needed.

One more thing - I don't understant why no one at the school suggested this idea. or came up with ideas of their own to help him with his writing skills. not one person suggested to try the computer. He is now on his own typing his work on the computer and loading it onto his tumbdrive. Then he will continue working on it at school if he needs more information or if he's stuck on something. Everything stays on that tumbdrive. WOW! for us, a Hugh help.

with that, he is able to look up things on the net or use the online dictonary when needed.

We'll see how this goes when the work gets even harder.

Rose

From: kelliangelini <kelliangelini@...> Sent: Mon, March 22, 2010 7:40:19 PMSubject: ( ) Re: Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?

Nope, so not alone! My 10 yr old has always had a terrible time writing anything. It has been the physical aspect of handwriting in addition to getting the ideas out and on paper in some order. I have not found an eas solution, cause really what is easy for us? But, I will say that I have really tried to push typing and it is starting to really help. He fought me on that for quite awhile too, but he is starting to type things and it I am seeing a positive difference in his work actually being readible and making sense. Also, I did buy a Spongebob typing program.Good luck!Kelli>> Since you brought it up, a I'm going to spin off this topic onto> another. writing issues. CLEARLY this

is common with Aspie's, as I've heard> it mentioned a LOT. We are currently struggling with this. 's taken a> real aversion to "Language Arts" of any kind, because it has so much writing> in it. I know he often struggles to get his thoughts and ideas from his head> to the paper, but that's not the problem now. it's just plain WRITING!> > > > His teacher has really backed off on the "cursive" requirements for ,> as he gets INCREDIBLY frustrated with it - but any kind of writing, even if> it's just copying a sentence from a book onto a worksheet, and he complains.> Several Language arts periods at school have gone on with NO work, and> getting him to do vocabulary homework, where he has to copy a sentence from> the book, and then look up and write down the word's definition, for> example, are met with resistance and frustration. Even coloring,

which is> something he used to GREATLY enjoy, has been a frustration point for him as> of late.> > > > What kinds of things do you all recommend to help him with this, aside from> OT? Is there anything we can do, or the school can do, to assist him, while> we wait to speak to an OT?> > > > Thanks in advance, all !!> > > > =)> > > > From: > [mailto: ] On Behalf Of a > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 5:35 AM> > Subject: RE: ( ) does this happen to your child.. math?> > > > > > You are SO not alone on this one in our house!!!!!! As writing has been an> issue I thought I was being clever and getting maths workbooks (we> homeschool) with number stickers for the answers. The answer stickers were> bright and colourful but they did not follow a colour pattern when put into> the sums - that was a massive disaster with tears, meltdowns etc and those> workbooks mysteriously disappeared into the night, some things are so not> worth the fight! She also couldn't cope with a page of putting the answers> at the end of the sum and then moving on to have to figure the answers in> the middle of

the sum eg she went from "4 + 4 = ___" to "4 + ___ = 8" even> though she was very capable of doing the work the different look of the sum> caused a meltdown.> > > > You are not alone!> > > > a>

[Guest guest]

here are a few other typing links to check out:

http://freetypinggames.blogspot.com/

http://www.freetypinggame.net/

hope these links open for you - they are fun & free to learn. If they don't open - copy & paste into google.

From: kelliangelini <kelliangelini@...> Sent: Mon, March 22, 2010 7:40:19 PMSubject: ( ) Re: Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?

Nope, so not alone! My 10 yr old has always had a terrible time writing anything. It has been the physical aspect of handwriting in addition to getting the ideas out and on paper in some order. I have not found an eas solution, cause really what is easy for us? But, I will say that I have really tried to push typing and it is starting to really help. He fought me on that for quite awhile too, but he is starting to type things and it I am seeing a positive difference in his work actually being readible and making sense. Also, I did buy a Spongebob typing program.Good luck!Kelli>> Since you brought it up, a I'm going to spin off this topic onto> another. writing issues. CLEARLY this

is common with Aspie's, as I've heard> it mentioned a LOT. We are currently struggling with this. 's taken a> real aversion to "Language Arts" of any kind, because it has so much writing> in it. I know he often struggles to get his thoughts and ideas from his head> to the paper, but that's not the problem now. it's just plain WRITING!> > > > His teacher has really backed off on the "cursive" requirements for ,> as he gets INCREDIBLY frustrated with it - but any kind of writing, even if> it's just copying a sentence from a book onto a worksheet, and he complains.> Several Language arts periods at school have gone on with NO work, and> getting him to do vocabulary homework, where he has to copy a sentence from> the book, and then look up and write down the word's definition, for> example, are met with resistance and frustration. Even coloring,

which is> something he used to GREATLY enjoy, has been a frustration point for him as> of late.> > > > What kinds of things do you all recommend to help him with this, aside from> OT? Is there anything we can do, or the school can do, to assist him, while> we wait to speak to an OT?> > > > Thanks in advance, all !!> > > > =)> > > > From: > [mailto: ] On Behalf Of a > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 5:35 AM> > Subject: RE: ( ) does this happen to your child.. math?> > > > > > You are SO not alone on this one in our house!!!!!! As writing has been an> issue I thought I was being clever and getting maths workbooks (we> homeschool) with number stickers for the answers. The answer stickers were> bright and colourful but they did not follow a colour pattern when put into> the sums - that was a massive disaster with tears, meltdowns etc and those> workbooks mysteriously disappeared into the night, some things are so not> worth the fight! She also couldn't cope with a page of putting the answers> at the end of the sum and then moving on to have to figure the answers in> the middle of

the sum eg she went from "4 + 4 = ___" to "4 + ___ = 8" even> though she was very capable of doing the work the different look of the sum> caused a meltdown.> > > > You are not alone!> > > > a>

[Guest guest]

, my Liz really struggles with cursive and her printing is tiny and very difficult to read. She does, however, enjoy writing and using her very fertile imagination to come up with stories. She wants to be a writer when she grows up.But sorry, I have no advice for you as we are just getting into the whole process ourselves From: nicole.obrien@...Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:52:51 -0230Subject: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?

Since you brought it up, a I’m going to spin

off this topic onto another… writing issues. CLEARLY this is common with

Aspie’s, as I’ve heard it mentioned a LOT. We are currently

struggling with this. ’s taken a real aversion to “Language

Arts” of any kind, because it has so much writing in it. I know he often

struggles to get his thoughts and ideas from his head to the paper, but that’s

not the problem now… it’s just plain WRITING!

His teacher has really backed off on the “cursive”

requirements for , as he gets INCREDIBLY frustrated with it – but any

kind of writing, even if it’s just copying a sentence from a book onto a

worksheet, and he complains. Several Language arts periods at school have gone

on with NO work, and getting him to do vocabulary homework, where he has to

copy a sentence from the book, and then look up and write down the word’s

definition, for example, are met with resistance and frustration. Even

coloring, which is something he used to GREATLY enjoy, has been a frustration

point for him as of late.

What kinds of things do you all recommend to help him with this,

aside from OT? Is there anything we can do, or the school can do, to assist

him, while we wait to speak to an OT?

Thanks in advance, all !!

=)

From:

[mailto: ] On

Behalf Of a

Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 5:35 AM

Subject: RE: ( ) does this happen to your child.. math?

You are SO

not alone on this one in our house!!!!!! As writing has been an issue I

thought I was being clever and getting maths workbooks (we homeschool) with

number stickers for the answers. The answer stickers were bright and

colourful but they did not follow a colour pattern when put into the sums

– that was a massive disaster with tears, meltdowns etc and those

workbooks mysteriously disappeared into the night,

some things are so not worth the fight! She also couldn’t cope with

a page of putting the answers at the end of the sum and then moving on to have

to figure the answers in the middle of the sum eg she went from “4 + 4 =

___” to “4 + ___ = 8” even though she was very capable of

doing the work the different look of the sum caused a meltdown.

You are

not alone!

a

Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.

[Guest guest]

My son was never taught cursive! (he is in 8th grade now). I thought it was odd..but the more I think about it...how many people actually sit down and write...handwrite a letter, etc.? Very few. I would work on computer typing skills...

Of course it would not hurt to improve his/her printing...and to learn how to sign their name (signature)....

Have you checked into how they hold the pencil? Are they gripping to hard? What about the rubber sleeves you can put on a pencil?

jan

"Faith, hope and Love and the greatest of these is Love"

From: Barbara Pinckney <b-pinckney@...>Aspergers Treatment Sent: Tue, March 23, 2010 3:50:37 PMSubject: RE: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?

, my Liz really struggles with cursive and her printing is tiny and very difficult to read. She does, however, enjoy writing and using her very fertile imagination to come up with stories. She wants to be a writer when she grows up.But sorry, I have no advice for you as we are just getting into the whole process ourselves

From: nicole.obrien@ eastlink. caDate: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:52:51 -0230Subject: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?

Since you brought it up, a I’m going to spin off this topic onto another… writing issues. CLEARLY this is common with Aspie’s, as I’ve heard it mentioned a LOT. We are currently struggling with this. ’s taken a real aversion to “Language Arts†of any kind, because it has so much writing in it. I know he often struggles to get his thoughts and ideas from his head to the paper, but that’s not the problem now… it’s just plain WRITING!

His teacher has really backed off on the “cursive†requirements for , as he gets INCREDIBLY frustrated with it – but any kind of writing, even if it’s just copying a sentence from a book onto a worksheet, and he complains. Several Language arts periods at school have gone on with NO work, and getting him to do vocabulary homework, where he has to copy a sentence from the book, and then look up and write down the word’s definition, for example, are met with resistance and frustration. Even coloring, which is something he used to GREATLY enjoy, has been a frustration point for him as of late.

What kinds of things do you all recommend to help him with this, aside from OT? Is there anything we can do, or the school can do, to assist him, while we wait to speak to an OT?

Thanks in advance, all !!

=)

From: [mailto:AspergersSu pport@group s.com] On Behalf Of a Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 5:35 AM Subject: RE: ( ) does this happen to your child.. math?

You are SO not alone on this one in our house!!!!!! As writing has been an issue I thought I was being clever and getting maths workbooks (we homeschool) with number stickers for the answers. The answer stickers were bright and colourful but they did not follow a colour pattern when put into the sums – that was a massive disaster with tears, meltdowns etc and those workbooks mysteriously disappeared into the night, some things are so not worth the fight! She also couldn’t cope with a page of putting the answers at the end of the sum and then moving on to have to figure the answers in the middle of the sum eg she went from “4 + 4 = ___†to “4 + ___ = 8†even though she was very capable of doing the work the different look of the sum caused a meltdown.

You are not alone!

a

Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.

[Guest guest]



Jan! Mine wasn't either!!! This was a concern of mine (of course, avoiding hospitalization has always been our bigger concern, so it fell by the wayside)

Now that he is 14, I just don't care about cursive anymore. We could teach it, sort of, but there are so many other things to focus on.

I thought we might be the only ones that missed this!

RE: ( ) does this happen to your child.. math?

You are SO not alone on this one in our house!!!!!! As writing has been an issue I thought I was being clever and getting maths workbooks (we homeschool) with number stickers for the answers. The answer stickers were bright and colourful but they did not follow a colour pattern when put into the sums – that was a massive disaster with tears, meltdowns etc and those workbooks mysteriously disappeared into the night, some things are so not worth the fight! She also couldn’t cope with a page of putting the answers at the end of the sum and then moving on to have to figure the answers in the middle of the sum eg she went from “4 + 4 = ___†to “4 + ___ = 8†even though she was very capable of doing the work the different look of the sum caused a meltdown.

You are not alone!

a

Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.

[Guest guest]

Actually, Jan, we brought the issue of being taught cursive up with the school because they touched on it briefly in 5th grade and never went back to it. Most of the kids print. Liz is in 7th now. But when we try to work on it with Liz alone, she can't do it. She does have sort of an odd grip, now that you mention it. From: jrushen@...Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:40:46 -0700Subject: Re: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?

My son was never taught cursive! (he is in 8th grade now). I thought it was odd..but the more I think about it...how many people actually sit down and write...handwrite a letter, etc.? Very few. I would work on computer typing skills...

Of course it would not hurt to improve his/her printing...and to learn how to sign their name (signature)....

Have you checked into how they hold the pencil? Are they gripping to hard? What about the rubber sleeves you can put on a pencil?

jan

"Faith, hope and Love and the greatest of these is Love"

From: Barbara Pinckney <b-pinckneyhotmail>Aspergers Treatment Sent: Tue, March 23, 2010 3:50:37 PMSubject: RE: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?

, my Liz really struggles with cursive and her printing is tiny and very difficult to read. She does, however, enjoy writing and using her very fertile imagination to come up with stories. She wants to be a writer when she grows up.But sorry, I have no advice for you as we are just getting into the whole process ourselves

From: nicole.obrien@ eastlink. caDate: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:52:51 -0230Subject: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?

Since you brought it up, a I’m going to spin off this topic onto another… writing issues. CLEARLY this is common with Aspie’s, as I’ve heard it mentioned a LOT. We are currently struggling with this. ’s taken a real aversion to “Language Arts” of any kind, because it has so much writing in it. I know he often struggles to get his thoughts and ideas from his head to the paper, but that’s not the problem now… it’s just plain WRITING!

His teacher has really backed off on the “cursive” requirements for , as he gets INCREDIBLY frustrated with it – but any kind of writing, even if it’s just copying a sentence from a book onto a worksheet, and he complains. Several Language arts periods at school have gone on with NO work, and getting him to do vocabulary homework, where he has to copy a sentence from the book, and then look up and write down the word’s definition, for example, are met with resistance and frustration. Even coloring, which is something he used to GREATLY enjoy, has been a frustration point for him as of late.

What kinds of things do you all recommend to help him with this, aside from OT? Is there anything we can do, or the school can do, to assist him, while we wait to speak to an OT?

Thanks in advance, all !!

=)

From: [mailto:AspergersSu pport@group s.com] On Behalf Of a Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 5:35 AM Subject: RE: ( ) does this happen to your child.. math?

You are SO not alone on this one in our house!!!!!! As writing has been an issue I thought I was being clever and getting maths workbooks (we homeschool) with number stickers for the answers. The answer stickers were bright and colourful but they did not follow a colour pattern when put into the sums – that was a massive disaster with tears, meltdowns etc and those workbooks mysteriously disappeared into the night, some things are so not worth the fight! She also couldn’t cope with a page of putting the answers at the end of the sum and then moving on to have to figure the answers in the middle of the sum eg she went from “4 + 4 = ___” to “4 + ___ = 8” even though she was very capable of doing the work the different look of the sum caused a meltdown.

You are not alone!

a

Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.

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[Guest guest]

I see a trend here...what is it with these schools? Cursive may not be as vital as it once was, but it is still a pretty basic skill they should at least work on with the kids From: dlbalke@...Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 05:11:15 -0700Subject: Re: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math? Jan! Mine wasn't either!!! This was a concern of mine (of course, avoiding hospitalization has always been our bigger concern, so it fell by the wayside) Now that he is 14, I just don't care about cursive anymore. We could teach it, sort of, but there are so many other things to focus on. I thought we might be the only ones that missed this! RE: ( ) does this happen to your child.. math? You are SO not alone on this one in our house!!!!!! As writing has been an issue I thought I was being clever and getting maths workbooks (we homeschool) with number stickers for the answers. The answer stickers were bright and colourful but they did not follow a colour pattern when put into the sums – that was a massive disaster with tears, meltdowns etc and those workbooks mysteriously disappeared into the night, some things are so not worth the fight! She also couldn’t cope with a page of putting the answers at the end of the sum and then moving on to have to figure the answers in the middle of the sum eg she went from “4 + 4 = ___†to “4 + ___ = 8†even though she was very capable of doing the work the different look of the sum caused a meltdown. You are not alone! aHotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now. Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.

[Guest guest]

Actually, writing is a multi-step process for everyone, not just AS kids. For kids who are NT, they still have to go through all the processes of writing and some are better at it than others. Within the process, there are many facets, as you pointed out! In order to work on the problem, you need to know where the problem(s) is happening first. That is what all those little subtests can tell you when they do an evaluation. An OT can evaluate visual perception, fine motor and pencil grasp/alphabet formation skills as well. Incidentally, my ds (dyslexia) has a visual motor integration score in the 99%ile which they tried to then say meant he "could write if he wanted to." So be careful to not let one particular score decide on services. (My school was doing just that!) But there are many parts to writing that can have glitches and cause problems - everything from being able to think of something to write to forming the letters correctly on the page to spelling to short term memory for copying off the board, etc. Focus on all the parts as a discussed here and figure out why things are difficult.

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

RE: ( ) does this happen to your child.. math?

You are SO not alone on this one in our house!!!!!! As writing has been an issue I thought I was being clever and getting maths workbooks (we homeschool) with number stickers for the answers. The answer stickers were bright and colourful but they did not follow a colour pattern when put into the sums – that was a massive disaster with tears, meltdowns etc and those workbooks mysteriously disappeared into the night, some things are so not worth the fight! She also couldn’t cope with a page of putting the answers at the end of the sum and then moving on to have to figure the answers in the middle of the sum eg she went from “4 + 4 = ___†to “4 + ___ = 8†even though she was very capable of doing the work the different look of the sum caused a meltdown.

You are not alone!

a

[Guest guest]

I am on our school's Parent Council and this came up last year. The principal

said cursive is taught in our school, but not focused on because what they

really want children to be able to do is communicate their thoughts, not worry

about how it looks. Of course, I argued that if I can't read it, how am I

supposed to know what the thought was?

That said, my now 7-year-old DD has been teaching herself cursive for about a

year now. She asked me to buy her a workbook and off she went. She says she

likes it better than printing because it's pretty and because she wants to do

something the other kids can't do yet. Who am I to argue with that? She's

also having me teach her multiplication and is coming up with new ways of seeing

the patterns to get the answers. I'm grateful her teacher says if she wants to

learn something that won't be taught for another year, let her!

~Cheryl S.

>

>

> I see a trend here...what is it with these schools? Cursive may not be as

vital as it once was, but it is still a pretty basic skill they should at least

work on with the kids

[Guest guest]

We've just bought an iTouch, to try to sort out what is " fine motor aversion "

and what is poor math/comprehension skills. My 8 year old loves the Math Flash

Card app, chooses over lightsaber app. Great way for him to do his rocket math.

Seems like we are on to something, and the fine motor task plus the

" computation " task is too much. Any other experiences out there of schools that

use technology to isolate the content from the fine motor tasks????

-

>

> Since you brought it up, a I'm going to spin off this topic onto

> another. writing issues. CLEARLY this is common with Aspie's, as I've heard

> it mentioned a LOT. We are currently struggling with this. 's taken a

> real aversion to " Language Arts " of any kind, because it has so much writing

> in it. I know he often struggles to get his thoughts and ideas from his head

> to the paper, but that's not the problem now. it's just plain WRITING!

>

>

>

> His teacher has really backed off on the " cursive " requirements for ,

> as he gets INCREDIBLY frustrated with it - but any kind of writing, even if

> it's just copying a sentence from a book onto a worksheet, and he complains.

> Several Language arts periods at school have gone on with NO work, and

> getting him to do vocabulary homework, where he has to copy a sentence from

> the book, and then look up and write down the word's definition, for

> example, are met with resistance and frustration. Even coloring, which is

> something he used to GREATLY enjoy, has been a frustration point for him as

> of late.

>

>

>

> What kinds of things do you all recommend to help him with this, aside from

> OT? Is there anything we can do, or the school can do, to assist him, while

> we wait to speak to an OT?

>

>

>

> Thanks in advance, all !!

>

>

>

> =)

>

>

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On Behalf Of a

> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 5:35 AM

>

> Subject: RE: ( ) does this happen to your child.. math?

>

>

>

>

>

> You are SO not alone on this one in our house!!!!!! As writing has been an

> issue I thought I was being clever and getting maths workbooks (we

> homeschool) with number stickers for the answers. The answer stickers were

> bright and colourful but they did not follow a colour pattern when put into

> the sums - that was a massive disaster with tears, meltdowns etc and those

> workbooks mysteriously disappeared into the night, some things are so not

> worth the fight! She also couldn't cope with a page of putting the answers

> at the end of the sum and then moving on to have to figure the answers in

> the middle of the sum eg she went from " 4 + 4 = ___ " to " 4 + ___ = 8 " even

> though she was very capable of doing the work the different look of the sum

> caused a meltdown.

>

>

>

> You are not alone!

>

>

>

> a

>

[Guest guest]

Good for her! From: grvychic@...Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 19:18:02 +0000Subject: Re: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?

I am on our school's Parent Council and this came up last year. The principal said cursive is taught in our school, but not focused on because what they really want children to be able to do is communicate their thoughts, not worry about how it looks. Of course, I argued that if I can't read it, how am I supposed to know what the thought was?

That said, my now 7-year-old DD has been teaching herself cursive for about a year now. She asked me to buy her a workbook and off she went. She says she likes it better than printing because it's pretty and because she wants to do something the other kids can't do yet. Who am I to argue with that? She's also having me teach her multiplication and is coming up with new ways of seeing the patterns to get the answers. I'm grateful her teacher says if she wants to learn something that won't be taught for another year, let her!

~Cheryl S.

>

>

> I see a trend here...what is it with these schools? Cursive may not be as vital as it once was, but it is still a pretty basic skill they should at least work on with the kids

Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Learn More.

[Guest guest]

Just an observation on cursive that might be interesting. My son is in first

grade at a Montessori school and they teach only cursive. His fine motor is

very poor, but believe it or not with lots of effort and " penmanship " this year

he writes cursive which is basically as good as his classmates'. I don't know

what to attribute this to other than they do a lot of writing. All in cursive.

His teacher did bring in a white board and markers for him to use as a reward

and a break from paper/pencil. He was quite responsive to the markerboard.

-Mich

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > I see a trend here...what is it with these schools? Cursive may not be as

vital as it once was, but it is still a pretty basic skill they should at least

work on with the kids

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.

>

http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en\

-US:WM_HMP:032010_1

>

[Guest guest]

If you don’t mind my asking, what kind of work did he do on the

whiteboard?

Thanks in advance,

=)

From:

[mailto: ] On

Behalf Of michmully

Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 12:20 AM

Subject: Re: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to

your child.. math?

Just an observation on cursive that might be

interesting. My son is in first grade at a Montessori school and they teach

only cursive. His fine motor is very poor, but believe it or not with lots of

effort and " penmanship " this year he writes cursive which is

basically as good as his classmates'. I don't know what to attribute this to

other than they do a lot of writing. All in cursive. His teacher did bring in a

white board and markers for him to use as a reward and a break from

paper/pencil. He was quite responsive to the markerboard.

-Mich

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > I see a trend here...what is it with these schools? Cursive may not

be as vital as it once was, but it is still a pretty basic skill they should at

least work on with the kids

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your

inbox.

> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_1

>

[Guest guest]

If it's hard these days, they get rid of it.

I'm with you, Barbara. I think it's important to teach this stuff too. It goes beyond just writing. There are a lot of skills going on when this happens, lots of connections get made in the brain that are good for long term learning. It's scary to think people just dismiss it. If a child literally cannot write in cursive, then there are a lot of problems going on that should be looked at and addressed. Usually, they just say "Ok, no cursive" and everyone sighs in relief. But nobody will address the core problems and they will cause other deficits in other areas. The handwriting is just a symptom of other problems going on - things like memory issues, visual perception issues, fine motor...etc.

I'm all for accommodations for kids but not to the extent that we get rid of dealing with the actual problem. We do not really "get rid" of the problem, we've just gotten rid of a symptom of the problem. Just a year ago I had an evaluation done on my 10 yo ds (dyslexia) and one example of the problems he was having was that given a month long chapter book reading assignment to complete, he could not read the book fast enough to finish within one month. By month 3, he was still reading the chapter book. So the "fix" to this (for the school staff anyway!) was to get rid of the monthly reading assignments for my ds. Problem solved. lol. I just shook my head (in defeat? how do you counter such nonsense?) and tried to explain how this solved nothing. lol. But it's the same with anything we do with our kids. Homework, handwriting, reading, composition - whatever we allow our kids to be exempted from is only a short term band aide over the problem and the longer we avoid dealing with the core problems, the harder it will be to help these kids long term.

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Re: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?



Jan! Mine wasn't either!!! This was a concern of mine (of course, avoiding hospitalization has always been our bigger concern, so it fell by the wayside)

Now that he is 14, I just don't care about cursive anymore. We could teach it, sort of, but there are so many other things to focus on.

I thought we might be the only ones that missed this!

RE: ( ) does this happen to your child.. math?

You are SO not alone on this one in our house!!!!!! As writing has been an issue I thought I was being clever and getting maths workbooks (we homeschool) with number stickers for the answers. The answer stickers were bright and colourful but they did not follow a colour pattern when put into the sums – that was a massive disaster with tears, meltdowns etc and those workbooks mysteriously disappeared into the night, some things are so not worth the fight! She also couldn’t cope with a page of putting the answers at the end of the sum and then moving on to have to figure the answers in the middle of the sum eg she went from “4 + 4 = ___†to “4 + ___ = 8†even though she was very capable of doing the work the different look of the sum caused a meltdown.

You are not alone!

a

Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.

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[Guest guest]

Hi Roxanna, I agree with you to an extent. The problem is... how do you fix the underlying problems (fine motor, visualmotor, etc.)? I'm not aware of any really great fixes. Even years of OT doesn't remediate the handwriting difficulties that a lot of our kids go through. Here's a great article about how this may actually be a neurological issue with our kids. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120275194 To my knowledge there aren't a lot of ways to rewire the brain. With the age of computers, I think it's totally silly to push the issue when most of us barely write anyway, but I think if you have some things that the schools could do to work on these skills it'd be very helpful. I'm always looking for new strategies! Thanks, From: MadIdeas@...Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:24:03 -0400Subject: Re: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math? If it's hard these days, they get rid of it. I'm with you, Barbara. I think it's important to teach this stuff too. It goes beyond just writing. There are a lot of skills going on when this happens, lots of connections get made in the brain that are good for long term learning. It's scary to think people just dismiss it. If a child literally cannot write in cursive, then there are a lot of problems going on that should be looked at and addressed. Usually, they just say "Ok, no cursive" and everyone sighs in relief. But nobody will address the core problems and they will cause other deficits in other areas. The handwriting is just a symptom of other problems going on - things like memory issues, visual perception issues, fine motor...etc. I'm all for accommodations for kids but not to the extent that we get rid of dealing with the actual problem. We do not really "get rid" of the problem, we've just gotten rid of a symptom of the problem. Just a year ago I had an evaluation done on my 10 yo ds (dyslexia) and one example of the problems he was having was that given a month long chapter book reading assignment to complete, he could not read the book fast enough to finish within one month. By month 3, he was still reading the chapter book. So the "fix" to this (for the school staff anyway!) was to get rid of the monthly reading assignments for my ds. Problem solved. lol. I just shook my head (in defeat? how do you counter such nonsense?) and tried to explain how this solved nothing. lol. But it's the same with anything we do with our kids. Homework, handwriting, reading, composition - whatever we allow our kids to be exempted from is only a short term band aide over the problem and the longer we avoid dealing with the core problems, the harder it will be to help these kids long term. RoxannaWhenever I feel blue, I start breathing again. Re: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?  Jan! Mine wasn't either!!! This was a concern of mine (of course, avoiding hospitalization has always been our bigger concern, so it fell by the wayside) Now that he is 14, I just don't care about cursive anymore. We could teach it, sort of, but there are so many other things to focus on. I thought we might be the only ones that missed this! RE: ( ) does this happen to your child.. math? You are SO not alone on this one in our house!!!!!! As writing has been an issue I thought I was being clever and getting maths workbooks (we homeschool) with number stickers for the answers. The answer stickers were bright and colourful but they did not follow a colour pattern when put into the sums – that was a massive disaster with tears, meltdowns etc and those workbooks mysteriously disappeared into the night, some things are so not worth the fight! She also couldn’t cope with a page of putting the answers at the end of the sum and then moving on to have to figure the answers in the middle of the sum eg she went from “4 + 4 = ___†to “4 + ___ = 8†even though she was very capable of doing the work the different look of the sum caused a meltdown. You are not alone! aHotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now. Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now. Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. Sign up now.

[Guest guest]

Generally, I'm a big fan of the do the work and make them learn it approach, and

I am (as a homeschooler) currently working with my son aggressively on cursive,

but cursive is one area I might be flexible with because it no longer is

important in the general curriculum. These days computers have taken over and

anytime you need to write quickly, you'll probably be on a keyboard. Also, in

some cases we have to choose between simply having our child learn to write

legibly, and trying to add cursive to already poor handwriting. Of course we

can't carry a computer along everywhere, and we also need to be able to write

letters/numbers to do mathematics, but aside from the chickenscratch I call my

signature, I have needed zero cursive in 2 decades. Furthermore, it is

extremely rare that I need to read it. Like shorthand, it is going by the

wayside.

However, I agree fully about how public schools take the attitude that if a

child has a tough time learning something, they figure out a way to avoid

teaching it. My son needed help with handwriting, and the school's OT took the

stance that " he'll be learning keyboarding in another year, and he'll be able to

type everything. " (...except for math which he is talented in). Then with his

sensory issues, they pushed a sensory diet in which they would remove all the

offending stimuli from his environment, and teach him to self regulate as well

(run away). I decided to self regulate, and now he is at home learning again.

-

>

>

> If it's hard these days, they get rid of it.

>

> I'm with you, Barbara. I think it's important to teach this stuff too. It

goes beyond just writing. There are a lot of skills going on when this happens,

lots of connections get made in the brain that are good for long term learning.

It's scary to think people just dismiss it. If a child literally cannot write

in cursive, then there are a lot of problems going on that should be looked at

and addressed. Usually, they just say " Ok, no cursive " and everyone sighs in

relief. But nobody will address the core problems and they will cause other

deficits in other areas. The handwriting is just a symptom of other problems

going on - things like memory issues, visual perception issues, fine

motor...etc.

>

> I'm all for accommodations for kids but not to the extent that we get rid of

dealing with the actual problem. We do not really " get rid " of the problem,

we've just gotten rid of a symptom of the problem. Just a year ago I had an

evaluation done on my 10 yo ds (dyslexia) and one example of the problems he was

having was that given a month long chapter book reading assignment to complete,

he could not read the book fast enough to finish within one month. By month 3,

he was still reading the chapter book. So the " fix " to this (for the school

staff anyway!) was to get rid of the monthly reading assignments for my ds.

Problem solved. lol. I just shook my head (in defeat? how do you counter such

nonsense?) and tried to explain how this solved nothing. lol. But it's the

same with anything we do with our kids. Homework, handwriting, reading,

composition - whatever we allow our kids to be exempted from is only a short

term band aide over the problem and the longer we avoid dealing with the core

problems, the harder it will be to help these kids long term.

>

>

>

>

> Roxanna

[Guest guest]

I totally agree! Making things easy on kids does not help them at all From: MadIdeas@...Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:24:03 -0400Subject: Re: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math? If it's hard these days, they get rid of it. I'm with you, Barbara. I think it's important to teach this stuff too. It goes beyond just writing. There are a lot of skills going on when this happens, lots of connections get made in the brain that are good for long term learning. It's scary to think people just dismiss it. If a child literally cannot write in cursive, then there are a lot of problems going on that should be looked at and addressed. Usually, they just say "Ok, no cursive" and everyone sighs in relief. But nobody will address the core problems and they will cause other deficits in other areas. The handwriting is just a symptom of other problems going on - things like memory issues, visual perception issues, fine motor...etc. I'm all for accommodations for kids but not to the extent that we get rid of dealing with the actual problem. We do not really "get rid" of the problem, we've just gotten rid of a symptom of the problem. Just a year ago I had an evaluation done on my 10 yo ds (dyslexia) and one example of the problems he was having was that given a month long chapter book reading assignment to complete, he could not read the book fast enough to finish within one month. By month 3, he was still reading the chapter book. So the "fix" to this (for the school staff anyway!) was to get rid of the monthly reading assignments for my ds. Problem solved. lol. I just shook my head (in defeat? how do you counter such nonsense?) and tried to explain how this solved nothing. lol. But it's the same with anything we do with our kids. Homework, handwriting, reading, composition - whatever we allow our kids to be exempted from is only a short term band aide over the problem and the longer we avoid dealing with the core problems, the harder it will be to help these kids long term. RoxannaWhenever I feel blue, I start breathing again. Re: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math? Jan! Mine wasn't either!!! This was a concern of mine (of course, avoiding hospitalization has always been our bigger concern, so it fell by the wayside) Now that he is 14, I just don't care about cursive anymore. We could teach it, sort of, but there are so many other things to focus on. I thought we might be the only ones that missed this! RE: ( ) does this happen to your child.. math? You are SO not alone on this one in our house!!!!!! As writing has been an issue I thought I was being clever and getting maths workbooks (we homeschool) with number stickers for the answers. The answer stickers were bright and colourful but they did not follow a colour pattern when put into the sums – that was a massive disaster with tears, meltdowns etc and those workbooks mysteriously disappeared into the night, some things are so not worth the fight! She also couldn’t cope with a page of putting the answers at the end of the sum and then moving on to have to figure the answers in the middle of the sum eg she went from “4 + 4 = ___†to “4 + ___ = 8†even though she was very capable of doing the work the different look of the sum caused a meltdown. You are not alone! aHotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now. Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. Sign up now.

[Guest guest]

Roxanna,

that was so well put that I have to print it out and take it with me to my next CSE meeting. Just as a reminder for me for when they say we can do without him learning "whatever"....

that was perfect! but you forgot one thing. When a child is struggling with something in school - they pass the work onto the mom at home with instructions on how to teach him that assignment..

Rose

From: bucaroobonzai2003 <ssernaker@...> Sent: Tue, March 30, 2010 3:35:54 PMSubject: Re: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?

Generally, I'm a big fan of the do the work and make them learn it approach, and I am (as a homeschooler) currently working with my son aggressively on cursive, but cursive is one area I might be flexible with because it no longer is important in the general curriculum. These days computers have taken over and anytime you need to write quickly, you'll probably be on a keyboard. Also, in some cases we have to choose between simply having our child learn to write legibly, and trying to add cursive to already poor handwriting. Of course we can't carry a computer along everywhere, and we also need to be able to write letters/numbers to do mathematics, but aside from the chickenscratch I call my signature, I have needed zero cursive in 2 decades. Furthermore, it is extremely rare that I need to read it. Like shorthand, it is going by the wayside.However, I agree fully about how public schools take the attitude that if a child has a tough time

learning something, they figure out a way to avoid teaching it. My son needed help with handwriting, and the school's OT took the stance that "he'll be learning keyboarding in another year, and he'll be able to type everything." (...except for math which he is talented in). Then with his sensory issues, they pushed a sensory diet in which they would remove all the offending stimuli from his environment, and teach him to self regulate as well (run away). I decided to self regulate, and now he is at home learning again.->> > If it's hard these days, they get rid of it. > > I'm with you, Barbara. I think it's important to teach this stuff too. It goes beyond just writing. There are a lot of

skills going on when this happens, lots of connections get made in the brain that are good for long term learning. It's scary to think people just dismiss it. If a child literally cannot write in cursive, then there are a lot of problems going on that should be looked at and addressed. Usually, they just say "Ok, no cursive" and everyone sighs in relief. But nobody will address the core problems and they will cause other deficits in other areas. The handwriting is just a symptom of other problems going on - things like memory issues, visual perception issues, fine motor...etc. > > I'm all for accommodations for kids but not to the extent that we get rid of dealing with the actual problem. We do not really "get rid" of the problem, we've just gotten rid of a symptom of the problem. Just a year ago I had an evaluation done on my 10 yo ds (dyslexia) and one example of the problems he was having was that given a month long chapter book reading

assignment to complete, he could not read the book fast enough to finish within one month. By month 3, he was still reading the chapter book. So the "fix" to this (for the school staff anyway!) was to get rid of the monthly reading assignments for my ds. Problem solved. lol. I just shook my head (in defeat? how do you counter such nonsense?) and tried to explain how this solved nothing. lol. But it's the same with anything we do with our kids. Homework, handwriting, reading, composition - whatever we allow our kids to be exempted from is only a short term band aide over the problem and the longer we avoid dealing with the core problems, the harder it will be to help these kids long term. > > > > > Roxanna

[Guest guest]

Actually, I am not a fan of "do the work and make them learn" approach. I just meant that we need to work on the processes that are delayed (via therapy) and not just provide an out. I never have seen that the "everyone keyboards these days" excuse to be valid. I use handwriting all the time plus I keyboard all the time as well. My two youngest ds's e-school and we do a lot of the work on the computer but they still have to write on some things. Just yesterday, my 13 yo (hfa) had to write out a Geometry quiz and it was such a mess. I often have to translate what he's done into legible writing before we scan and turn it in. I would say that "everyone keyboards" to be a bonus for our kids, who will likely always have a hard time with handwriting issues. But I would not take that to mean, "don't learn to write" as many OT's will say at IEP meetings to get out of providing services to kids who are struggling with handwriting issues.

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Re: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?

Generally, I'm a big fan of the do the work and make them learn it approach, and I am (as a homeschooler) currently working with my son aggressively on cursive, but cursive is one area I might be flexible with because it no longer is important in the general curriculum. These days computers have taken over and anytime you need to write quickly, you'll probably be on a keyboard. Also, in some cases we have to choose between simply having our child learn to write legibly, and trying to add cursive to already poor handwriting. Of course we can't carry a computer along everywhere, and we also need to be able to write letters/numbers to do mathematics, but aside from the chickenscratch I call my signature, I have needed zero cursive in 2 decades. Furthermore, it is extremely rare that I need to read it. Like shorthand, it is going by the wayside.

However, I agree fully about how public schools take the attitude that if a child has a tough time learning something, they figure out a way to avoid teaching it. My son needed help with handwriting, and the school's OT took the stance that "he'll be learning keyboarding in another year, and he'll be able to type everything."(...except for math which he is talented in). Then with his sensory issues, they pushed a sensory diet in which they would remove all the offending stimuli from his environment, and teach him to self regulate as well (run away). I decided to self regulate, and now he is at home learning again.

-

>

>

> If it's hard these days, they get rid of it.

>

> I'm with you, Barbara. I think it's important to teach this stuff too. It goes beyond just writing. There are a lot of skills going on when this happens, lots of connections get made in the brain that are good for long term learning. It's scary to think people just dismiss it. If a child literally cannot write in cursive, then there are a lot of problems going on that should be looked at and addressed. Usually, they just say "Ok, no cursive" and everyone sighs in relief. But nobody will address the core problems and they will cause other deficits in other areas. The handwriting is just a symptom of other problems going on - things like memory issues, visual perception issues, fine motor...etc.

>

> I'm all for accommodations for kids but not to the extent that we get rid of dealing with the actual problem. We do not really "get rid" of the problem, we've just gotten rid of a symptom of the problem. Just a year ago I had an evaluation done on my 10 yo ds (dyslexia) and one example of the problems he was having was that given a month long chapter book reading assignment to complete, he could not read the book fast enough to finish within one month. By month 3, he was still reading the chapter book. So the "fix" to this (for the school staff anyway!) was to get rid of the monthly reading assignments for my ds. Problem solved. lol. I just shook my head (in defeat? how do you counter such nonsense?) and tried to explain how this solved nothing. lol. But it's the same with anything we do with our kids. Homework, handwriting, reading, composition - whatever we allow our kids to be exempted from is only a short term band aide over the problem

and the longer we avoid dealing with the core problems, the harder it will be to help these kids long term.

>

>

>

>

> Roxanna

[Guest guest]

There are no fixes with autism. There are therapies that can improve the skills that are delayed. There are definitely therapies for fine motor and visual motor problems. And yes, this is part of a neurological deficit. The brain can be rewired (look at people who've had strokes, for one example.)

I don't find it silly to get kids into therapies to improve their abilities. It's more than just writing, as I was trying to say. But even if it were just writing, I would feel the same way.

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Re: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?



Jan! Mine wasn't either!!! This was a concern of mine (of course, avoiding hospitalization has always been our bigger concern, so it fell by the wayside)

Now that he is 14, I just don't care about cursive anymore. We could teach it, sort of, but there are so many other things to focus on.

I thought we might be the only ones that missed this!

RE: ( ) does this happen to your child.. math?

You are SO not alone on this one in our house!!!!!! As writing has been an issue I thought I was being clever and getting maths workbooks (we homeschool) with number stickers for the answers. The answer stickers were bright and colourful but they did not follow a colour pattern when put into the sums – that was a massive disaster with tears, meltdowns etc and those workbooks mysteriously disappeared into the night, some things are so not worth the fight! She also couldn’t cope with a page of putting the answers at the end of the sum and then moving on to have to figure the answers in the middle of the sum eg she went from “4 + 4 = ___†to “4 + ___ = 8†even though she was very capable of doing the work the different look of the sum caused a meltdown.

You are not alone!

a

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[Guest guest]

ROFL! YES! As soon as you get through arguing the validity of the problem and how we need to remediate, you are then handed a folder with 45 worksheets to do "at home" or "over the summer." :::rolling eyes::: Augh!

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Re: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?

Generally, I'm a big fan of the do the work and make them learn it approach, and I am (as a homeschooler) currently working with my son aggressively on cursive, but cursive is one area I might be flexible with because it no longer is important in the general curriculum. These days computers have taken over and anytime you need to write quickly, you'll probably be on a keyboard. Also, in some cases we have to choose between simply having our child learn to write legibly, and trying to add cursive to already poor handwriting. Of course we can't carry a computer along everywhere, and we also need to be able to write letters/numbers to do mathematics, but aside from the chickenscratch I call my signature, I have needed zero cursive in 2 decades. Furthermore, it is extremely rare that I need to read it. Like shorthand, it is going by the wayside.

However, I agree fully about how public schools take the attitude that if a child has a tough time

learning something, they figure out a way to avoid teaching it. My son needed help with handwriting, and the school's OT took the stance that "he'll be learning keyboarding in another year, and he'll be able to type everything." (...except for math which he is talented in). Then with his sensory issues, they pushed a sensory diet in which they would remove all the offending stimuli from his environment, and teach him to self regulate as well (run away). I decided to self regulate, and now he is at home learning again.

-

>

>

> If it's hard these days, they get rid of it.

>

> I'm with you, Barbara. I think it's important to teach this stuff too. It goes beyond just writing. There are a lot of

skills going on when this happens, lots of connections get made in the brain that are good for long term learning. It's scary to think people just dismiss it. If a child literally cannot write in cursive, then there are a lot of problems going on that should be looked at and addressed. Usually, they just say "Ok, no cursive" and everyone sighs in relief. But nobody will address the core problems and they will cause other deficits in other areas. The handwriting is just a symptom of other problems going on - things like memory issues, visual perception issues, fine motor...etc.

>

> I'm all for accommodations for kids but not to the extent that we get rid of dealing with the actual problem. We do not really "get rid" of the problem, we've just gotten rid of a symptom of the problem. Just a year ago I had an evaluation done on my 10 yo ds (dyslexia) and one example of the problems he was having was that given a month long chapter book reading

assignment to complete, he could not read the book fast enough to finish within one month. By month 3, he was still reading the chapter book. So the "fix" to this (for the school staff anyway!) was to get rid of the monthly reading assignments for my ds. Problem solved. lol. I just shook my head (in defeat? how do you counter such nonsense?) and tried to explain how this solved nothing. lol. But it's the same with anything we do with our kids. Homework, handwriting, reading, composition - whatever we allow our kids to be exempted from is only a short term band aide over the problem and the longer we avoid dealing with the core problems, the harder it will be to help these kids long term.

>

>

>

>

> Roxanna

[Guest guest]

You are right, RoxannaWhat about essay tests in high school? I doubt they hand out lap tops instead of "blue books" From: MadIdeas@...Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:58:19 -0400Subject: Re: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?

Actually, I am not a fan of "do the work and make them learn" approach. I just meant that we need to work on the processes that are delayed (via therapy) and not just provide an out. I never have seen that the "everyone keyboards these days" excuse to be valid. I use handwriting all the time plus I keyboard all the time as well. My two youngest ds's e-school and we do a lot of the work on the computer but they still have to write on some things. Just yesterday, my 13 yo (hfa) had to write out a Geometry quiz and it was such a mess. I often have to translate what he's done into legible writing before we scan and turn it in. I would say that "everyone keyboards" to be a bonus for our kids, who will likely always have a hard time with handwriting issues. But I would not take that to mean, "don't learn to write" as many OT's will say at IEP meetings to get out of providing services to kids who are struggling with handwriting issues.

Roxanna

Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.

Re: ( ) Writing issues WAS: does this happen to your child.. math?

Generally, I'm a big fan of the do the work and make them learn it approach, and I am (as a homeschooler) currently working with my son aggressively on cursive, but cursive is one area I might be flexible with because it no longer is important in the general curriculum. These days computers have taken over and anytime you need to write quickly, you'll probably be on a keyboard. Also, in some cases we have to choose between simply having our child learn to write legibly, and trying to add cursive to already poor handwriting. Of course we can't carry a computer along everywhere, and we also need to be able to write letters/numbers to do mathematics, but aside from the chickenscratch I call my signature, I have needed zero cursive in 2 decades. Furthermore, it is extremely rare that I need to read it. Like shorthand, it is going by the wayside.

However, I agree fully about how public schools take the attitude that if a child has a tough time learning something, they figure out a way to avoid teaching it. My son needed help with handwriting, and the school's OT took the stance that "he'll be learning keyboarding in another year, and he'll be able to type everything."(...except for math which he is talented in). Then with his sensory issues, they pushed a sensory diet in which they would remove all the offending stimuli from his environment, and teach him to self regulate as well (run away). I decided to self regulate, and now he is at home learning again.

-

>

>

> If it's hard these days, they get rid of it.

>

> I'm with you, Barbara. I think it's important to teach this stuff too. It goes beyond just writing. There are a lot of skills going on when this happens, lots of connections get made in the brain that are good for long term learning. It's scary to think people just dismiss it. If a child literally cannot write in cursive, then there are a lot of problems going on that should be looked at and addressed. Usually, they just say "Ok, no cursive" and everyone sighs in relief. But nobody will address the core problems and they will cause other deficits in other areas. The handwriting is just a symptom of other problems going on - things like memory issues, visual perception issues, fine motor...etc.

>

> I'm all for accommodations for kids but not to the extent that we get rid of dealing with the actual problem. We do not really "get rid" of the problem, we've just gotten rid of a symptom of the problem. Just a year ago I had an evaluation done on my 10 yo ds (dyslexia) and one example of the problems he was having was that given a month long chapter book reading assignment to complete, he could not read the book fast enough to finish within one month. By month 3, he was still reading the chapter book. So the "fix" to this (for the school staff anyway!) was to get rid of the monthly reading assignments for my ds. Problem solved. lol. I just shook my head (in defeat? how do you counter such nonsense?) and tried to explain how this solved nothing. lol. But it's the same with anything we do with our kids. Homework, handwriting, reading, composition - whatever we allow our kids to be exempted from is only a short term band aide over the problem

and the longer we avoid dealing with the core problems, the harder it will be to help these kids long term.

>

>

>

>

> Roxanna

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