Re: Re: Fitting in... at what cost do we not

[Guest guest]

I've seen a number of emails lately with the attitude that is in this subject line and I am always amazed when this comes up. I don't think it's an "all or nothing" proposition and I don't get how people get so caught up in the for and against as to see it that way. I see a lot of posts on here lately about letting kids "be who they are" or "be who they want to be" with a slap at anything that "forces them to change." It's all well and good to "be who you are" and "love for who they are and as they are" or however you want to put this. Yes, nice. Nice. nice.

But here are a few things to consider:

"Fitting in" is not a dirty set of words - not evil or amoral. Fitting in and conforming and similar ideas but the not the same thing. I think sometimes people use them in the same way and that can be a problem in some cases, like now. We don't have to all think the same way to fit in, for instance. To conform, you would have to all think the same way. So fitting in is a good thing, a good goal to have for our kids. Fitting is = good. Fitting in just means that we are able to coexist within a group. We can function in society. You don't have to "change who you are" to learn how to fit in, deal with other people and function within society. It is just plain common sense to learn the skills one needs to be self-sufficient. To do less for your child - whether that child is NT or AS/HFA, would be wrong and a breach of parental responsibility, IMO. You should still help your child learn social skills and it does not mean you do not like your child or do not like "who they are" or are not "accepting" of them. It means you want them to grow up and live an independent life and have the ability to do what they wish to do. Not fitting in, lacking the social skills to maneuver through society is just going to build walls and barriers for your child. So you decide whether they have more or less choices while you are loving who they are. But also remember what you think is cute, others may not. And what is cute at age 6 is probably just obnoxious at age 30.

Adapting is also not a dirty word and is, in fact, vital to our ability to survive. Learning the skills we need to exist and function is not a bad thing. These folks who get online and wail about how mean we NT people are for expecting them to change or learn skills - why wouldn't we expect what we expect from everyone? These are not people who can't learn. They just chose not to. There is such a difference there. And also, you expect kids to learn math, spelling and reading. If they are delayed in those areas, you would tutor them, find help for them, spend extra time with them to practice these skills. So why would social development be a different skill that we would consider NOT teaching or not providing help for in order to "let them be who they are?" Memorizing multiplication tables is a lesson and nobody says, "How dare they expect our kids to memorize this stuff, to conform like this, to be doggie trained to answer when the question is asked!" But discuss teaching social skills and this is what we hear. It's somehow "wrong" to expect them to have to learn this stuff. It's conformist. It's doggie training.

We all have to adapt to the world, to life, to rules. This is what it means to grow up - you get the freedom but also the responsibility. One without the other is just obnoxious, like a spoiled brat kid. We are all "brought up", "raised" - we are all taught rules, manners, social skills along with academic skills. We are not left in the wild to do whatever we want whenever we want. We are part of a larger society. I always viewed the social aspects of autism as just another set of skills we had to work on. Learning to speak is only as good as what we say. What good is teaching one without the other? So living in a social environment as we do (we humans are social, that is just a fact) we should equip our kids to manage and handle these social aspects as well as we would any other aspect of development.

If you have tried tons of therapy and nothing has "worked" and the kid is still the "same" as before, I would probably ask you to define your expectations for the therapy or skill building. As said, it's not just black and white - we think in rainbows. Well, of course we do and should. You can love your child for who they are and still take them to therapy. One does not negate the other. It's not either/or. You can help your child learn to get along socially and still respect that their personality will never be "life of the party." Again, it's not an either/or, black/white issue. We should have realistic expectations for what therapy actually does. A ST is not like a plastic surgeon and you go in and say, "I don't like the way my nose looks" and you wake up and it's all fixed. One is surgery but the other is therapy and skill building. The objective is not to transform a person into something they are not or into someone else. The purpose is to provide them skills that they can then use to live productively and independently - to add on to the repertoire that they have already. All this back and forth about "accepting our kids for who they are" misses the point, IMO.

That leads to the second problem: I've said before on here that my kids are not autism. Autism is a disability that they have but without it, they would still be smart, witty, adorable kids. Just without the problems associated with autism. There is no way that you can pull autism or AS out of a person and be left with nothing. Autism is not the brain behind the person or that person's soul or even their personality. If it were, they would all be exactly the same. And they are not! Autism is a set of disabling neurological developmental problems. So without it, you still have that child, that precious person. There is no shame in working to get rid of the disabling effects that autism has, to teach better skills, different skills, adapting skills. I know a lot of people online like to credit autism with their talents. I don't get that at all. They say things like, "I like having AS because I can (do amazing things, list them here)." Why do we gift autism with our child's natural talents? So without it, they would what...? Be empty and devoid of life?

Regardless, therapy is not a bad word. And helping our kids grow and develop is not bad and not anything we don't do for our NT kids. Helping them learn how to exist in the world we live in is our job and duty as parents. We just have a harder list of things to work on than some people, more hurdles to help our kids jump over. Our ability to provide them opportunities to learn the skills that they do not have is just part of our job as parents but more importantly, it will help them grow into the most independent adults that they can be. It provides more opportunities for them, where autism has limited them severely. I don't see anything but "win win" in that. As for the subject line, "Fitting in...at what cost", I would add, "At what cost do we not help our kids fit in?" By not doing so, we can be assured that they will have fewer choices than they might otherwise have. They will be limited in what they can do in life. So the cost to not helping them fit in is unimaginable.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) Re: Fitting in... at what cost

I feel like we've tried everything we knew to do and now that my daughter is 14 I think it's time to quit trying to force her to "fit it". My husband is an extremely social, life of the party type and he always felt if we pushed her to be more social she would eventually just fit it. Unfortunately, with aspergers it just doesn't work that way.

We had her in preschool from the age of 2, summer day camps every year, social skills groups, drama classes, public school, private schools, occupational therapy, speech therapy...the list goes on and on. In all honesty, I'm not sure the therapies helped her at all. She was resistant to change and as a result, for example,is still a toe walker at 14. (She was dx in 5th grade)

At some point around 6th grade she realized the only way to make girl friends would be to pretend to be somebody different. She consciously made the choice not to be a fake person. We discussed this at length and I decided it was time I stopped trying to mold her into somebody different too. She's wonderful just the way she is.

>

>

> I'm just wondering what people's perspectives are on the issue of

> 'fitting in'. I've been reading a lot of articles by aspies, and many

> seem to feel that forcing them to fit in or trying to 'cure them' is the

> wrong approach. Do you worry that 'training' your Aspie to fit in will

> fundamentally change who they are meant to be, or are you confident that

> training them to fit in is the best thing for them in the long run?

>

> This is a piece of the puzzle that I am still perplexed by... how far do

> you go with treatments before you start erasing the individual and not

> just the disorder...

>

> Caitlin

> Embracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome-to-normal.com

> <http://www.welcome-to-normal.com>

>

[Guest guest]

Bravo, Roxanna. I'm standing up and clapping in your honor right now. Very well said!!!

"Over-optimism is waiting for you ship to come in when you haven't sent one out."

From: Roxanna <MadIdeas@...> Sent: Wed, February 17, 2010 8:47:02 PMSubject: Re: ( ) Re: Fitting in... at what cost do we not

I've seen a number of emails lately with the attitude that is in this subject line and I am always amazed when this comes up. I don't think it's an "all or nothing" proposition and I don't get how people get so caught up in the for and against as to see it that way. I see a lot of posts on here lately about letting kids "be who they are" or "be who they want to be" with a slap at anything that "forces them to change." It's all well and good to "be who you are" and "love for who they are and as they are" or however you want to put this. Yes, nice. Nice. nice. But here are a few things to consider:"Fitting in" is not a dirty set of words - not evil or amoral. Fitting in and conforming and similar ideas but the not the same thing. I think sometimes people use them in the same way and that can be a problem in some cases,

like now. We don't have to all think the same way to fit in, for instance. To conform, you would have to all think the same way. So fitting in is a good thing, a good goal to have for our kids. Fitting is = good. Fitting in just means that we are able to coexist within a group. We can function in society. You don't have to "change who you are" to learn how to fit in, deal with other people and function within society. It is just plain common sense to learn the skills one needs to be self-sufficient. To do less for your child - whether that child is NT or AS/HFA, would be wrong and a breach of parental responsibility, IMO. You should still help your child learn social skills and it does not mean you do not like your child or do not like "who they are" or are not "accepting" of them. It means you want them to grow up and live an independent life and have the ability to do what they wish to

do. Not fitting in, lacking the social skills to maneuver through society is just going to build walls and barriers for your child. So you decide whether they have more or less choices while you are loving who they are. But also remember what you think is cute, others may not. And what is cute at age 6 is probably just obnoxious at age 30. Adapting is also not a dirty word and is, in fact, vital to our ability to survive. Learning the skills we need to exist and function is not a bad thing. These folks who get online and wail about how mean we NT people are for expecting them to change or learn skills - why wouldn't we expect what we expect from everyone? These are not people who can't learn. They just chose not to. There is such a difference there. And also, you expect kids to learn math, spelling and reading. If they are delayed in those areas, you would tutor them, find help for

them, spend extra time with them to practice these skills. So why would social development be a different skill that we would consider NOT teaching or not providing help for in order to "let them be who they are?" Memorizing multiplication tables is a lesson and nobody says, "How dare they expect our kids to memorize this stuff, to conform like this, to be doggie trained to answer when the question is asked!" But discuss teaching social skills and this is what we hear. It's somehow "wrong" to expect them to have to learn this stuff. It's conformist. It's doggie training. We all have to adapt to the world, to life, to rules. This is what it means to grow up - you get the freedom but also the responsibility. One without the other is just obnoxious, like a spoiled brat kid. We are all "brought up", "raised" - we are all taught rules, manners, social skills along with academic

skills. We are not left in the wild to do whatever we want whenever we want. We are part of a larger society. I always viewed the social aspects of autism as just another set of skills we had to work on. Learning to speak is only as good as what we say. What good is teaching one without the other? So living in a social environment as we do (we humans are social, that is just a fact) we should equip our kids to manage and handle these social aspects as well as we would any other aspect of development. If you have tried tons of therapy and nothing has "worked" and the kid is still the "same" as before, I would probably ask you to define your expectations for the therapy or skill building. As said, it's not just black and white - we think in rainbows. Well, of course we do and should. You can love your child for who they are and still take them to therapy. One does not negate the

other. It's not either/or. You can help your child learn to get along socially and still respect that their personality will never be "life of the party." Again, it's not an either/or, black/white issue. We should have realistic expectations for what therapy actually does. A ST is not like a plastic surgeon and you go in and say, "I don't like the way my nose looks" and you wake up and it's all fixed. One is surgery but the other is therapy and skill building. The objective is not to transform a person into something they are not or into someone else. The purpose is to provide them skills that they can then use to live productively and independently - to add on to the repertoire that they have already. All this back and forth about "accepting our kids for who they are" misses the point, IMO. That leads to the second problem: I've said before on here that my kids are not autism.

Autism is a disability that they have but without it, they would still be smart, witty, adorable kids. Just without the problems associated with autism. There is no way that you can pull autism or AS out of a person and be left with nothing. Autism is not the brain behind the person or that person's soul or even their personality. If it were, they would all be exactly the same. And they are not! Autism is a set of disabling neurological developmental problems. So without it, you still have that child, that precious person. There is no shame in working to get rid of the disabling effects that autism has, to teach better skills, different skills, adapting skills. I know a lot of people online like to credit autism with their talents. I don't get that at all. They say things like, "I like having AS because I can (do amazing things, list them here)." Why do we gift autism with our

child's natural talents? So without it, they would what...? Be empty and devoid of life? Regardless, therapy is not a bad word. And helping our kids grow and develop is not bad and not anything we don't do for our NT kids. Helping them learn how to exist in the world we live in is our job and duty as parents. We just have a harder list of things to work on than some people, more hurdles to help our kids jump over. Our ability to provide them opportunities to learn the skills that they do not have is just part of our job as parents but more importantly, it will help them grow into the most independent adults that they can be. It provides more opportunities for them, where autism has limited them severely. I don't see anything but "win win" in that. As for the subject line, "Fitting in...at what cost", I would add, "At what cost do we not help our kids fit in?" By not doing so, we

can be assured that they will have fewer choices than they might otherwise have. They will be limited in what they can do in life. So the cost to not helping them fit in is unimaginable.

Roxanna"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) Re: Fitting in... at what cost

I feel like we've tried everything we knew to do and now that my daughter is 14 I think it's time to quit trying to force her to "fit it". My husband is an extremely social, life of the party type and he always felt if we pushed her to be more social she would eventually just fit it. Unfortunately, with aspergers it just doesn't work that way.We had her in preschool from the age of 2, summer day camps every year, social skills groups, drama classes, public school, private schools, occupational therapy, speech therapy...the list goes on and on. In all honesty, I'm not sure the therapies helped her at all. She was resistant to change and as a result, for example,is still a toe walker at 14. (She was dx in 5th grade)At some point around 6th grade she realized the only way to make girl friends would be to pretend to be somebody different. She consciously made the choice not to be a fake person. We discussed this at length and I decided

it was time I stopped trying to mold her into somebody different too. She's wonderful just the way she is. >> > I'm just wondering what people's perspectives are on the issue of> 'fitting in'. I've been reading a lot of articles by aspies, and many> seem to feel that forcing them to fit in or trying to 'cure them' is the> wrong approach. Do you worry that 'training' your Aspie to fit in will> fundamentally change who they are meant to be, or are you confident that> training them to fit in is the best thing for them in the long run?> > This is a piece of the puzzle that I am still perplexed by... how far do> you go with treatments before you start erasing

the individual and not> just the disorder...> > Caitlin> Embracing change as a blessing in disguise at www.welcome- to-normal. com> <http://www.welcome- to-normal. com>>