Re: More kefir questions

[Guest guest]

> Micheal I've decided your a walking encyclopedia when it comes to

> fermentation. I'm used to making yogurt and know how that turns

no, not really.. I'm pretty new to all this. Just been experimenting

that's all. Well, with the kefir I wasn't really experimenting -

just noticing things.

> stuff. Now, yesterday I took some of the curd things which I

assumed

> were kefir grains and I put them in the same jar and poured the

milk

> over them. It has now been about 24 hours and it hasn't done

anything

> like last time. It hasn't expanded in the jar or anything. This

time

> it was gotten thick like buttermilk and is just barely, almost 24

> hours later, getting sour. Did I do something wrong? Also, I'm

I suggest you go to google, choose " images " and search for " kefir

grains " . Then see what they look like so you know. My " spoon

spatula " straining tends to separate them from the kefir itself. The

grains are usually coated with milk. Underneath they are a yellowish

color.

If you used the store bought grains that come in a package then I

don't think they actually produce any more grains. But I have no

experience with that. If you get the actual kefir grains (like those

you see on google images) then it is easy to make kefir.

> wondering, I think it was you who said to use 3 to 2 ratio on the

kt

> of green to black tea. I realized that my kt is much more

vinegary

> instead of sour. Will using your proportions change that? And

what

> is the medicinal properties of black tea in comparison to green?

Lots

> and Lots of questions. thanks a ton

no, I was just asking about the 3:2 ratio. Len is the guy that

advocates it. I have yet to try it. I have been using 1:1 for now

and will try that 3:2 ratio next.

I don't know but my understanding is that black is the traditional

way to do it so most of the research has been done using black.

Green is advocated because of the relatively new research about the

healthful properties of green tea (especially the catchetins (sp?)).

Apparently these are also in black tea but in a more complicated

structure. I guess it is like fats where the body uses short-chain

fats like butter easier than long-chain fats like vegetable oils. So

I think the green tea's simpler catchetins are used by the body

easier than black teas more complex ones. However black tea is also

healthy. I guess these useful substances are not destroyed in the

kombucha-making process.

I have experimented though with kombucha based on green teas (I have

many different kinds of green tea sitting in my cupboard) and found

that the ones that produce a darker steep (orange or dark yellow)

like gunpowder produce a better tasting and thicker scoby kombucha

than the ones which produce a lighter, yellower steep. Gunpowder is

such a dark steeping green tea and I would stick with that for your

experimentation. I mean, I'm just saying is the quality of kombucha

made from green tea varies widely depending on which green you use.

Generally the healthier greens though are the lighter steeping ones,

which don't seem to produce as good a kombucha. Personally, my

understanding is that the lighter steeping ones are probably the

ones that are more healthy. I mean apparently a tea like japanese

sencha is very healthy. I haven't used it. But I have seen it. And

it looks an awful lot like my most expensive box of chinese green

tea. That one steeps light color and produces terrible kombucha. Now

I know some people make kombucha from sencha, so it is probably is

sufficient for that but I would think that gunpowder would make a

better kombucha than sencha for the reasons I have stated. But this

is all just my theory.

Now this is what I have come to the conclusion about... if you

really want to maximize the health benefits then do this:

1) make kombucha out of black, or oolong, or black pu-erh (green pu-

erh also doesn't seem to make good kombucha), or gunpowder or other

dark greens. Or a mix of any of these I have just mentioned.

2) drink a cup or more of sencha or other steamed green teas during

the day.

Anyhow, apparently especially if you mature kombucha until it has a

kick then a little will go a long way. So you are not drinking that

much kombucha all day so you would have some room for some green tea

as well.

Len has a good description about 3:2 at:

http://w3.trib.com/~kombu/KTBalance.shtml#Green%20Versus%20Black%

20Teas

and it mentions the effect on taste. What blacks do and what greens

do to taste.

also, just as an aside... I normally don't have mold but I did start

brewing a bunch of them also in another room and those all got

attacked by mold. That room doesn't have good air circulation. So my

suggestion is don't store kombucha in any room with stale smelling

air.

michael.

[Guest guest]

Thanks again micheal. I've seen the pictures on Dom's website and

yesterdays batch kinda looked like his but todays is weird. I'll

figure it out. bless you

-- In kombucha tea , " ycomp1 " <ycomp@r...> wrote:

> > Micheal I've decided your a walking encyclopedia when it comes

to

> > fermentation. I'm used to making yogurt and know how that turns

>

> no, not really.. I'm pretty new to all this. Just been

experimenting

> that's all. Well, with the kefir I wasn't really experimenting -

> just noticing things.

>

> > stuff. Now, yesterday I took some of the curd things which I

> assumed

> > were kefir grains and I put them in the same jar and poured the

> milk

> > over them. It has now been about 24 hours and it hasn't done

> anything

> > like last time. It hasn't expanded in the jar or anything.

This

> time

> > it was gotten thick like buttermilk and is just barely, almost

24

> > hours later, getting sour. Did I do something wrong? Also, I'm

>

> I suggest you go to google, choose " images " and search for " kefir

> grains " . Then see what they look like so you know. My " spoon

> spatula " straining tends to separate them from the kefir itself.

The

> grains are usually coated with milk. Underneath they are a

yellowish

> color.

>

> If you used the store bought grains that come in a package then I

> don't think they actually produce any more grains. But I have no

> experience with that. If you get the actual kefir grains (like

those

> you see on google images) then it is easy to make kefir.

>

> > wondering, I think it was you who said to use 3 to 2 ratio on

the

> kt

> > of green to black tea. I realized that my kt is much more

> vinegary

> > instead of sour. Will using your proportions change that? And

> what

> > is the medicinal properties of black tea in comparison to

green?

> Lots

> > and Lots of questions. thanks a ton

>

> no, I was just asking about the 3:2 ratio. Len is the guy that

> advocates it. I have yet to try it. I have been using 1:1 for now

> and will try that 3:2 ratio next.

>

> I don't know but my understanding is that black is the traditional

> way to do it so most of the research has been done using black.

> Green is advocated because of the relatively new research about

the

> healthful properties of green tea (especially the catchetins

(sp?)).

> Apparently these are also in black tea but in a more complicated

> structure. I guess it is like fats where the body uses short-chain

> fats like butter easier than long-chain fats like vegetable oils.

So

> I think the green tea's simpler catchetins are used by the body

> easier than black teas more complex ones. However black tea is

also

> healthy. I guess these useful substances are not destroyed in the

> kombucha-making process.

>

> I have experimented though with kombucha based on green teas (I

have

> many different kinds of green tea sitting in my cupboard) and

found

> that the ones that produce a darker steep (orange or dark yellow)

> like gunpowder produce a better tasting and thicker scoby kombucha

> than the ones which produce a lighter, yellower steep. Gunpowder

is

> such a dark steeping green tea and I would stick with that for

your

> experimentation. I mean, I'm just saying is the quality of

kombucha

> made from green tea varies widely depending on which green you use.

>

> Generally the healthier greens though are the lighter steeping

ones,

> which don't seem to produce as good a kombucha. Personally, my

> understanding is that the lighter steeping ones are probably the

> ones that are more healthy. I mean apparently a tea like japanese

> sencha is very healthy. I haven't used it. But I have seen it. And

> it looks an awful lot like my most expensive box of chinese green

> tea. That one steeps light color and produces terrible kombucha.

Now

> I know some people make kombucha from sencha, so it is probably is

> sufficient for that but I would think that gunpowder would make a

> better kombucha than sencha for the reasons I have stated. But

this

> is all just my theory.

>

> Now this is what I have come to the conclusion about... if you

> really want to maximize the health benefits then do this:

>

> 1) make kombucha out of black, or oolong, or black pu-erh (green

pu-

> erh also doesn't seem to make good kombucha), or gunpowder or

other

> dark greens. Or a mix of any of these I have just mentioned.

>

> 2) drink a cup or more of sencha or other steamed green teas

during

> the day.

>

> Anyhow, apparently especially if you mature kombucha until it has

a

> kick then a little will go a long way. So you are not drinking

that

> much kombucha all day so you would have some room for some green

tea

> as well.

>

> Len has a good description about 3:2 at:

>

> http://w3.trib.com/~kombu/KTBalance.shtml#Green%20Versus%20Black%

> 20Teas

>

> and it mentions the effect on taste. What blacks do and what

greens

> do to taste.

>

> also, just as an aside... I normally don't have mold but I did

start

> brewing a bunch of them also in another room and those all got

> attacked by mold. That room doesn't have good air circulation. So

my

> suggestion is don't store kombucha in any room with stale smelling

> air.

>

> michael.

[Guest guest]

> Now this is what I have come to the conclusion about... if you

> really want to maximize the health benefits then do this:

>

> 1) make kombucha out of black, or oolong, or black pu-erh (green pu-

> erh also doesn't seem to make good kombucha), or gunpowder or other

> dark greens. Or a mix of any of these I have just mentioned.

>

> 2) drink a cup or more of sencha or other steamed green teas during

> the day.

The following " logic " assumes that kombucha containing green tea

contains all the benefical compounds that freshly brewed green tea has.

There is a good case for drinking green tea separately in order to

maximize health benefits. This is because you are not drinking much

green tea if you are drinking a cup of kombucha a day.

Kombucha is normally brewed in substantially lower concentrations than

you would brew green tea. I think it is about half.

So if you had 100% pure green tea kombucha and drink 1 cup of kombucha

per day then you are really actually only drinking about the

equivalent of 1/2 cup of green tea.

If you did the 3:2 green:black thing then 1 cup of kombucha would only

contain the same amount of green tea as 30% of a cup of green tea (60%

x 0.5). So you would need to drink 3 and 1/3 cups in of kombucha in

order to take in the same amount of green tea as in 1 freshly brewed

cup of green tea.

Now, most things that I have read that say green tea is very

beneficial at preventing cancer say that you need to drink multiple

cups of green tea per day (I forget how many but it is substantial...

I would guess at least 3 or more). So if you want the equivalent of 3

cups of green tea per day you would have to drink 10 cups of this 3:2

kombucha.

But I suspect that even 1 cup of green tea per day is quite good for

you.

But I am thinking that even if some of the benefits of green tea are

still present in kombucha, that not all of them are.

Take vitamin C for instance. I do not know how much vitamin c is in

green tea but apparently it is a lot. It is a better source apparently

than orange juice. (apparently heat doesn't destroy vitamin c, that

misconception was from flawed logic. It just seeps easily into the

water, which is why there is less (little?) vitamin c left in boiled

or fried veggies)

But the kombucha research analasys' that I have seen on the internet

say there is little vitamin c in kombucha. I assume some of these were

made from green tea, so one has to wonder where the vitamin c has

gone. If the vitamin c as been broken down then what else that is

healthy about green tea also has been broken down?

These are enough reasons that I think it doesn't really matter how

much green tea you use in kombucha for " health " reasons. Just focus

more on how much to put in for " taste " reasons. And drink green tea as

well.

michael.

[Guest guest]

Lark: i make fruit smoothies out of my kefir anything on hand and if

nothing fresh in goes the pineapple in its own juice! Yum! If it is

too tart a bit of honey or agave nectar! YUMMM!!! i age my kefir for

48 hours. Also it depends on how much you think you'll drink as to

how much you make!

Vona

http://photos./tiellover3001

Worcester MA USA

Got Limu????? www.vr.originallimu.com

3000 year old secret for health revealed !

Toll-free 1-866-852-4832 my ID# 7875201

http://shambaladance.blogspot.com/

[Guest guest]

,

I refrigerate my grains all the time, and they work just fine. (In fact, I do the same as you - put my whole batch into the fridge.) I think you may have milk grains, and I have water grains. My understanding is that refrigeration just slows down their metabolism. The warmer it is, the faster their metabolism. That's why kefir & krauts ferment faster in the summer. So when you pull them out of the fridge, it may take a few days for them to kick back into gear, but they do. I have not heard anything about the probiotic profile being changed, and I'd have to read about it in a few places (or one very reliable source) before I accept that.

To store the grains when they are not in use, keep them in the fridge in whatever feeds them. That would be milk for milk grains, and sugar/water for water grains. (My water grains thrive in rapadura.) I usually change my " storage sugar/water " about once/month. I wouldn't know how often to change out the milk.

Marla

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 7:34 AM, Viadro <viadro@...> wrote:

I read the recent posts about not refrigerating " working " kefir grains with a big " uh oh. " My usual procedure is to make a quart, then throw the whole jar in the fridge, grains and all, until I have time to strain it, which might be a couple of days later. I find that this makes a very nice thick kefir too. Otherwise, with no fridge time, I assume I'd be needing to make a quart a day on an ongoing basis to keep them in constant use. I don't have that much milk and we can't drink that much. How can you keep working grains in good working order but also build in some rests, where you're not having to be constantly making kefir?

And what does it mean that it changes the probiotic profile? Does that mean that it's no longer got the good stuff that we're all aiming for?

Thanks,

[Guest guest]

It is perfectly fine to do what you are doing; I do exactly the same thing.  We just don't always drink it fast enough (I do a half gallon at at a time).You are getting the same wonderful probiotics from kefiring at room temp, then just slowing the active fermentation in the refrigerator for a short time.  While in the fridge, not every organism will be reproducing, or at least not as rapidly.  But everytiing is still there from the time spent at room temp.  The thing about storing kefir grains in the refrigerator is just that the organisms need to be kept alive, and this is still accomplished by covering with fresh milk at least weekly (and I have often gone longer, to no ill effect, other than that they may be a little slow at reviving).  This will not affect the outcome of future batches of kefir; everything is still there.MaureenI read the recent posts about not refrigerating "working" kefir grains with a big "uh oh." My usual procedure is to make a quart, then throw the whole jar in the fridge, grains and all, until I have time to strain it, which might be a couple of days later. I find that this makes a very nice thick kefir too. Otherwise, with no fridge time, I assume I'd be needing to make a quart a day on an ongoing basis to keep them in constant use. I don't have that much milk and we can't drink that much. How can you keep working grains in good working order but also build in some rests, where you're not having to be constantly making kefir? And what does it mean that it changes the probiotic profile? Does that mean that it's no longer got the good stuff that we're all aiming for? Thanks,