Re: New here ... Concerns about my 15-yr-old HFA son

March 5, 2011

Hi Mark,Welcome to the group, I am sorry you are having a hard time with your son, it seems that he is very interring. My grain of salt: Psychotherapy might help (I think) it will help him to discuss his issues and his insecurities, the reason why our children tend to be so controlling is because they feel they have very little control of themselves (I think), tailing to a Therapist and bringing out things that bother him might help to take the load off you as parents, at least I think it will help. My husband is a high school teacher and he agrees with your son, that certain children need a different kind of teaching because they learn in a different way, so your son is not that wrong in his opinions. Therapy will also help with the

aggression and the rigidity of thinking because it will help to deal with his frustrations.I don't know if I think of anything else I will let you know, this is all I can offer, my humble opinion.take care and welcome From: mendocal

<mendocal@...> Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 8:03:21 PMSubject: ( ) New here ... Concerns about my 15-yr-old HFA son

My name is Mark Mendocal. I am new to this group. I joined to see if I could get some advice on how to handle my 15-yr-old HFA son. He holds a diagnosis of PDD-NOS with "a tendency towards HFA." Asperger was ruled out due to late speech (didn't speak until 3) as well as issues that are believed to be caused by loss of oxygen at birth. His IQ was ranged as being average to possibly above average, but testing was apparently inconclusive due to frustration issues. He may also exhibit ADHD.

My son is prone to violent meltdowns, which can occur at just a slight nuance of conflict or disagreement. Everything has to be his way, or he simply can lose it. He is very controlling, almost to the point that it gets on both I and my wife's nerves. We literally have to watch what we say and how we say it. Just a change in tone of voice or the wrong word spoken in a seemingly negative context can cause a drastic mood change. Anyone who constantly disagrees with his viewpoints is deemed as merely inconsiderate or rotten. There are a couple of teachers at his school that he swears do not know how to handle students and thus condemns any little thing that they do that is not in accordance to his rules. He may or may not say it outright to them, but he definitely brings it up to lots of other people.

My son appears to have a very rigid way of how he thinks the world ought to work, and expects everyone to comply. If they don't, he gets very argumentative and hostile. He is overtly political and claims to believe in direct action, and makes no bones at stipulating how he feels about this or that. At just 15 years old, he is reading books way above his age level, college-oriented political and social journals and textbooks, to say the least, that seems to be shaping his mind. He is well versed in topics like organizational and chaos theory, and his discussions are often even over my head. He appears as his vast knowledge of the stuff allows him to understand how the world functions. We get calls from school that he constantly attempts to "persuade" teachers to change their learning styles to fit "all" kinds of students, and has threatened to report them if his "demands" are not met. I have had teachers tell me that they feel a bit uneasy around him.

They adore his knowledge but not his action.

I also feel a lot of this is causing him great distress. He reads on and on and on. I can't stop him from reading books and browsing the net. I get lots of things from him like "you are not supposed to say that to someone with autism. The autism textbooks say it's wrong." It is as if he has memorized some autism manual and has more knowledge on it than I do, yet I have read the same stuff. I can't comply with this kind of stuff 24/7. I just can't. I and my wife both can't. And I am just tired of it all. But we do love him. We love him a lot. If we could just find a way for him to feel more at ease. I have been told that I myself have autism traits, and still I can't seem to deal with this all the time.

Sorry for venting. But this is how it is almost daily. It wears me down. So I have to vent. Or I won't be able to function myself.

Mark Mendocal

Raleigh, NC

March 5, 2011

My son was similar to your son when he was @ age 12. When he transitioned to

middle school he started throwing violent fits at school (never at home) and he

got more rigid in his thinking. He was never violent towards others but would

throw himself on the floor and start screaming. (This from a kid who had never

tantrummed as a younger child.) It was his way of dealing with his anxiety at

school. What helped us was to give him a safe haven at school (among many other

things) and to have him start seeing a counselor outside of school. The

counselor gave him an unbiased part to listen to him. He's still seeing the

counselor but now says that he doesn't need him. He has become more flexible and

is far more confident at school. My son is 15.

You may want to try a social skills group. It may help your son become more

tolerant of how others interact with him. They also may help him learn to be

less controlling of others.

My son trys to be controlling of me sometimes. I usually tell him that he can

either that 1) he can do it himself instead of me or 2)just put up with how I am

doing it. Amazing how tolerant my son becomes when it means less work for him.

;-) His father takes it more personally and the two of them end up arguing.

Funny that they won't dx your son with AS because of a speech delay. My son had

a severe speech delay and only started talking at age 4.5 after years of speech

therapy. My son got dx'ed with AS at age 12.

Caroline

>

> My name is Mark Mendocal. I am new to this group. I joined to see if I could

get some advice on how to handle my 15-yr-old HFA son. He holds a diagnosis of

PDD-NOS with " a tendency towards HFA. " Asperger was ruled out due to late speech

(didn't speak until 3) as well as issues that are believed to be caused by loss

of oxygen at birth. His IQ was ranged as being average to possibly above

average, but testing was apparently inconclusive due to frustration issues. He

may also exhibit ADHD.

>

> My son is prone to violent meltdowns, which can occur at just a slight nuance

of conflict or disagreement. Everything has to be his way, or he simply can lose

it. He is very controlling, almost to the point that it gets on both I and my

wife's nerves. We literally have to watch what we say and how we say it. Just a

change in tone of voice or the wrong word spoken in a seemingly negative context

can cause a drastic mood change. Anyone who constantly disagrees with his

viewpoints is deemed as merely inconsiderate or rotten. There are a couple of

teachers at his school that he swears do not know how to handle students and

thus condemns any little thing that they do that is not in accordance to his

rules. He may or may not say it outright to them, but he definitely brings it up

to lots of other people.

>

> My son appears to have a very rigid way of how he thinks the world ought to

work, and expects everyone to comply. If they don't, he gets very argumentative

and hostile. He is overtly political and claims to believe in direct action, and

makes no bones at stipulating how he feels about this or that. At just 15 years

old, he is reading books way above his age level, college-oriented political and

social journals and textbooks, to say the least, that seems to be shaping his

mind. He is well versed in topics like organizational and chaos theory, and his

discussions are often even over my head. He appears as his vast knowledge of the

stuff allows him to understand how the world functions. We get calls from school

that he constantly attempts to " persuade " teachers to change their learning

styles to fit " all " kinds of students, and has threatened to report them if his

" demands " are not met. I have had teachers tell me that they feel a bit uneasy

around him. They adore his knowledge but not his action.

>

> I also feel a lot of this is causing him great distress. He reads on and on

and on. I can't stop him from reading books and browsing the net. I get lots of

things from him like " you are not supposed to say that to someone with autism.

The autism textbooks say it's wrong. " It is as if he has memorized some autism

manual and has more knowledge on it than I do, yet I have read the same stuff. I

can't comply with this kind of stuff 24/7. I just can't. I and my wife both

can't. And I am just tired of it all. But we do love him. We love him a lot. If

we could just find a way for him to feel more at ease. I have been told that I

myself have autism traits, and still I can't seem to deal with this all the

time.

>

> Sorry for venting. But this is how it is almost daily. It wears me down. So I

have to vent. Or I won't be able to function myself.

>

> Mark Mendocal

> Raleigh, NC

>

March 6, 2011

Hi Mark, I can imagine your frustration, could feel a bit myself as I read your

post.

Sounds like he is above average IQ what with the reading and the subject matter.

Sounds like he'd do better in a college type environment, so things may improve

after high school.

Where you wrote about having to watch what you say or how you say it -- so he is

expecting a certain response from you? other than just agreeing with him, I

mean. And the " rule " following, *his* rules. Because that had " OCD " come to

mind with me. I have a 22 yr old son with HFA/Aspergers and OCD, so have read

about OCD for many years now. (his began in 6th grade)

My parenting skills are definitely not perfect. Single mom, 3 sons, all so

different. But wondering have you just plain fussed, told him off, tell him how

it is going to be...parent him as a typical kid, I'm the parent, you're the

child...? In regard to his behavior in the classroom, like his questioning or

making demands of his teachers, lay out the rules about respect at school to

teachers, etc., etc.? Had to do that some with my sons, even with my Aspie;

though he always respected, but he could ask WAY too many questions in classes,

and really annoyed one teacher in middle school asking the same question each

day. And sometimes my " try to be gentle, prompting, guide them " way didn't work

and I just had to fuss, be stern, make it an order...type thing to get some

success.

Have you had any contact with TEACCH since you're in NC? (I'm in NC too) Was

thinking you could contact them to ask if they had any suggestions for your HFA

son.

When I mentioned OCD, part of what you said reminded me of perfectionism,

thought it doesn't " perfectly " fit, lol:

http://www.ocdchicago.org/index.php/experts-perspectives/article/perfectionism_a\

re_you_sure_it_pays_off/

Having to respond to him in certain ways also made me think OCD. Can get

confusing when autism is also involved, as the inflexibility can go with both,

obsessive behavior also, etc.

Is he on any medication??

>

> My name is Mark Mendocal. I am new to this group. I joined to see if I could

get some advice on how to handle my 15-yr-old HFA son. He holds a diagnosis of

PDD-NOS with " a tendency towards HFA. " Asperger was ruled out due to late speech

(didn't speak until 3) as well as issues that are believed to be caused by loss

of oxygen at birth. His IQ was ranged as being average to possibly above

average, but testing was apparently inconclusive due to frustration issues. He

may also exhibit ADHD.

>

> My son is prone to violent meltdowns, which can occur at just a

March 6, 2011

Mark, a couple more thoughts.

I mentioned OCD (waiting to hear about if you have to have a proper response

and/or tone when responding) but also OCPD is similar and wanted to toss that

in. Here's a little on OCPD:

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx26.htm

Also since you're in Raleigh, there is a great doctor (expert on OCD) there who

works with anxiety disorders, including OCD, with children/teens. Might be

worth a visit to see what she says - Dr. Aureen Wagner. Here's her website:

http://www.anxietywellness.com/

I do think your son's high IQ (though he may not have the right perspective on

some of that knowledge he gains) and that he is outspoken (as opposed to

introvert, quiet) plays a part so when reading descriptions of things like OCD

or OCPD or HFA, need to take those into account. Because of course, HFA is part

of this too. Just trying to find different approaches you might take (like from

OCD or OCPD point of view).

March 6, 2011

That kind of overbearing bossy ridgid mindset is a mood disorder

too. Kids with irritable chronic moods externalize

all frustration in their life as due to others. When they

get mad they are so hyperaurosed they can't control

themselves. And even after the meltdown some are

still convinced it is others fault.

Have you trialed any medication and if not why?

He needs something to bring his chronic irritable mood down.

He is looking for things to justify his angry and irritated

mood.

Anti-depressants zoloft and prozac are approved for kids as young

as 7. That may be a first course of treatment for irritable

depressed mood. Or Abilify is also prescribed to kids for

reducing irritable mood more quickly than anti-depresants.

If he is on medication his symptoms it is not under control, I would target

irritability as the symptom to treat.

He may not cooperate with wanting to take medication. Some

kids won't. But since his symptoms are so severe now

is the time to find him something that works, not when

he is over 18 or when someone calls the police even if you

would never do so.

He is too old to tolerate any more violence. There has to be

zero tolerance. Can he control himself without medication,

good than he needs to do it otherwise he has to cooperate

with medication. You can let him have a say in a choice of

a few doctors, he can start at a very low dose if he is afraid

of medication as a way to have some control.

If he says he does not have an irritable mood than you can reason with

him that his behavior is abusive and that the police would

not tolerate that kind of behavior in the home. I don't know

how fearful he is of the police. Violent meltdowns are scary

if he has any self control he better start using.

I feel sad for kids like this because they don't experience

much happiness in life. It is possible to get him medically

treated even if he is not willing.

I would definately seek the help of a certified behaviorist

specializing in autism to help you. Or if there are not

any near where you live you can consult with the

Yale University Parent and Child Conduct Clinic and

they can train you over the phone. They deal with

kids that are oppositional or have conduct disorders, they

use positive reinforcement.

If he is hopelessly resistent to treatment than you might

have him hospitalized following the next violent meltdown.

It is better than calling the police I think. it is better

if he will just cooperate with trying medication though.

You can try a reasonable stand, limited internet for going to

school but no more than 2 hours a day if he is not taking

medication.

I hope you find some help for him, so his mood issues are

addressed.

Pam