Re: Son struggling in advanced math class - need feedback

[Guest guest]

,

I think it is great that you are supporting his decision. I think the tutor is also great. This will be a life lesson most likely in how to work hard and achieve your goals. If not, he will learn another of life's lessons which is things don't always work out how you plan, but with love and support you will get through. You are a great mom! I'm routing for the first life lesson.

My daughter always choses getting extra help over changing courses.

Best Wishes,

Becky Fisher

From: <smacalli@...>Subject: ( ) Son struggling in advanced math class - need feedback Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 7:17 PM

FIRST - Sorry this is so long! If you're interested in providing feedback, I suggest you get comfortable before attempting to read =)My son is 14 and in his Freshman year of high school. He's taking one pre-AP (advanced placement) course this year in Algebra. This means the subject matter moves along more quickly and requires more in depth understanding of the material. Dylan's most favorite subject is science but there was summer work to complete if he went pre-AP biology so he chose pre-AP algebra, instead. This was a typical reaction of D's - he doesn't like to do extra/harder/more advanced work if it requires more time/effort on his end. He took a pre-AP course b/c he thinks he's smart enough to have at least one on his schedule.Fast forward to the end of the first semester and Dylan failed the semester with a 68. He passed each of the six weeks, but failed the semester exam which brought his grade below passing. He will be on

probation for the 4th six weeks period and if he fails it, it will be up to the principal and myself if he should be removed from pre-AP algebra and placed in a regular education algebra class. I'm clarifying a few things tomorrow with the school like what happens if he passes the 2nd semester and pulls his overall grade to passing? Will he receive a full credit for the year (right now his report card shows he didn't receive a 1/2 credit for the first semester since he failed.) So...my dilemna. My mom (who's retired) has been helping him w/ much of his homework and she had a meeting (with my blessing) with the math teacher and Dylan's SCORES teacher (autism program at school that provides support to D). My mom and his pre-AP math teacher thinks he should move to regular ed now. The kicker is that my son is adamant about not quitting. We got him a tutor at the end of the semester and that will continue on a more regular basis from here on out. He

thinks between the tutor's help and his better understanding of what it will take to pass the class, he can pass it and he wants to try. This is HUGE for him. He usually takes the path of least resistance so for him to want to try, I've decided to support his decision. The ramifications if he continues but doesn't pass include summer school, minimally. I'm not clear what else might happen. I think he would make better grades in the regular education math class. I think it would be easier. I think it would require less homework after school, something that takes him 2+ hours on most nights (just for math, not including other subjects.) But he wants to keep trying and I feel like I have to support his decision. Regardless of the outcome, I want him to know that 1) I'll support his decision and 2) I believe in him. If he ends up failing for the year, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I'm getting hung up on how much I should influence him to change

his mind. My mom thinks I'm wrong. His math teacher thinks I'm wrong. My dad understands my position. Can I get your thoughts?

[Guest guest]

He wants to replan for the next semester. That is great.

Have you also talked about how he will cope if it still is

hard and he fails. Our therapist had me do this with my daughter

to help her cope with disappointments.

If he doesn't pass the next semester, ask him if he can accept

calmly that he has to retake the class? And if work

gets harder in other areas and so he can't manage is he

OK with that things unexpected come up. And

will be fall apart under stress?

If he does start to stress out is there a plan for further

support?

He is taking a risk in his work and usually people

cope better with these decisions if they are willing

to accept the consequences.

If he tries to stay in the class, I would praise him for having

a plan and giving it a try and hopefully he can learn

if the stress got to him and were there unexpected things

that came up.

Pam

>

> FIRST - Sorry this is so long! If you're interested in providing feedback, I

suggest you get comfortable before attempting to read =)

>

> My son is 14 and in his Freshman year of high school. He's taking one pre-AP

(advanced placement) course this year in Algebra. This means the subject matter

moves along more quickly and requires more in depth understanding of the

material. Dylan's most favorite subject is science but there was summer work to

complete if he went pre-AP biology so he chose pre-AP algebra, instead. This was

a typical reaction of D's - he doesn't like to do extra/harder/more advanced

work if it requires more time/effort on his end. He took a pre-AP course b/c he

thinks he's smart enough to have at least one on his schedule.

>

> Fast forward to the end of the first semester and Dylan failed the semester

with a 68. He passed each of the six weeks, but failed the semester exam which

brought his grade below passing. He will be on probation for the 4th six weeks

period and if he fails it, it will be up to the principal and myself if he

should be removed from pre-AP algebra and placed in a regular education algebra

class. I'm clarifying a few things tomorrow with the school like what happens if

he passes the 2nd semester and pulls his overall grade to passing? Will he

receive a full credit for the year (right now his report card shows he didn't

receive a 1/2 credit for the first semester since he failed.)

>

> So...my dilemna. My mom (who's retired) has been helping him w/ much of his

homework and she had a meeting (with my blessing) with the math teacher and

Dylan's SCORES teacher (autism program at school that provides support to D).

My mom and his pre-AP math teacher thinks he should move to regular ed now. The

kicker is that my son is adamant about not quitting. We got him a tutor at the

end of the semester and that will continue on a more regular basis from here on

out. He thinks between the tutor's help and his better understanding of what it

will take to pass the class, he can pass it and he wants to try. This is HUGE

for him. He usually takes the path of least resistance so for him to want to

try, I've decided to support his decision. The ramifications if he continues

but doesn't pass include summer school, minimally. I'm not clear what else

might happen. I think he would make better grades in the regular education math

class. I think it would be easier. I think it would require less homework

after school, something that takes him 2+ hours on most nights (just for math,

not including other subjects.) But he wants to keep trying and I feel like I

have to support his decision. Regardless of the outcome, I want him to know

that 1) I'll support his decision and 2) I believe in him. If he ends up failing

for the year, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I'm getting hung up on

how much I should influence him to change his mind. My mom thinks I'm wrong. His

math teacher thinks I'm wrong. My dad understands my position. Can I get your

thoughts?

>

[Guest guest]

Ok ...here are my thoughts....

He is trying right, he wants to stay..and he is willing to put forth the effort...then let him. He is accepting the fact that he needs the tutor and extra help and that it will be necessary for him to put in the hours of homework. And, you have discusssed with him that if he fails this marking period, he will be placed in regular math and he totally understands and accepts this? If this is true, then let him stay in the advanced class and keep trying. I think it is wonderful that he is putting forth such great effort.

Does he have math all year long? If he does, and he failed this 1/4...he can still pass for the year..as long as he passes the next 3 marking periods. The worse senerio is that he retake math in summmer school or during the following year. And, of course, i would recommend summer school if it is offered.

As long as your son is aware of everything and knows what will happend and accepts it all, then let him continue to try. Kuddos to him. Just keep reassuring him that if he does not pass this next marking period, that he is still a great student.

jan

"In the Midst of Difficulty lies Opportunity" Albert Einstein

Success is not measured by one's position but by the obstacles one has overcome to obtain that position

From: <smacalli@...> Sent: Mon, January 3, 2011 7:17:40 PMSubject: ( ) Son struggling in advanced math class - need feedback

FIRST - Sorry this is so long! If you're interested in providing feedback, I suggest you get comfortable before attempting to read =)My son is 14 and in his Freshman year of high school. He's taking one pre-AP (advanced placement) course this year in Algebra. This means the subject matter moves along more quickly and requires more in depth understanding of the material. Dylan's most favorite subject is science but there was summer work to complete if he went pre-AP biology so he chose pre-AP algebra, instead. This was a typical reaction of D's - he doesn't like to do extra/harder/more advanced work if it requires more time/effort on his end. He took a pre-AP course b/c he thinks he's smart enough to have at least one on his schedule.Fast forward to the end of the first semester and Dylan failed the semester with a 68. He passed each of the six weeks, but failed the semester exam which brought his grade below passing. He will be on

probation for the 4th six weeks period and if he fails it, it will be up to the principal and myself if he should be removed from pre-AP algebra and placed in a regular education algebra class. I'm clarifying a few things tomorrow with the school like what happens if he passes the 2nd semester and pulls his overall grade to passing? Will he receive a full credit for the year (right now his report card shows he didn't receive a 1/2 credit for the first semester since he failed.) So...my dilemna. My mom (who's retired) has been helping him w/ much of his homework and she had a meeting (with my blessing) with the math teacher and Dylan's SCORES teacher (autism program at school that provides support to D). My mom and his pre-AP math teacher thinks he should move to regular ed now. The kicker is that my son is adamant about not quitting. We got him a tutor at the end of the semester and that will continue on a more regular basis from here on out. He

thinks between the tutor's help and his better understanding of what it will take to pass the class, he can pass it and he wants to try. This is HUGE for him. He usually takes the path of least resistance so for him to want to try, I've decided to support his decision. The ramifications if he continues but doesn't pass include summer school, minimally. I'm not clear what else might happen. I think he would make better grades in the regular education math class. I think it would be easier. I think it would require less homework after school, something that takes him 2+ hours on most nights (just for math, not including other subjects.) But he wants to keep trying and I feel like I have to support his decision. Regardless of the outcome, I want him to know that 1) I'll support his decision and 2) I believe in him. If he ends up failing for the year, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I'm getting hung up on how much I should influence him to change

his mind. My mom thinks I'm wrong. His math teacher thinks I'm wrong. My dad understands my position. Can I get your thoughts?

[Guest guest]

Hi! My sons are out of high school, am trying to recall how this works -- so he

can try another 6 weeks and then could be switched to the regular Algebra class?

I can see why they would suggest starting now, to get the whole spring semester

in one class now.

I think - since he is so motivated, wanting to - I'd let him try this 6 weeks.

A 68 wasn't too bad, a couple more points and he'd have passed (assuming 70 is

passing). Were his grades prior to the exam mostly in the 70's?

I have 3 sons, one with Aspergers and OCD (age 21). My oldest son (typical, 25

yrs) also had that predicament. He took one of the advanced type math classes

in 10th grade and the teacher told him at some point (maybe after the first 6

weeks?) that she felt he really needed to be in the regular class, wasn't

understanding the advanced well enough (he'd had a really lousy 9th grade

teacher, probably for that same class your son is taking, and didn't learn it

well, I'd even complained...).

So he did switch. He hated to, didn't want to, he'd always been great in math,

but lacking that 9th grade learning for the subject apparently left him a bit

behind in tackling the next math in 10th in an advanced class. I think he felt

the teacher didn't like him either.... Anyway, since the *teacher* was

suggesting it, strongly, he did and it worked out well in the end.

One thing I loved about high school was my sons being able to take those AP

classes or general classes, mix it up. My Aspie son took the regular English

courses on the recommendation of a great teacher. She said he wouldn't learn

any less in the regular classes, that the advanced just required so much more

writing, more assignments, and with his dysgraphia (writing was physically hard)

she felt it would be better, less stressful, in regular.

With the support your son is getting from tutoring and other, and his

motivation, I think I'd also let him try it if he could switch later...so long

as no outcome means failing the grade, etc. It may be that there was just one

area/chapter that was more difficult for him this past semester, the next stuff

may be easier to him.

Let us know how it turns out! Just my thoughts, to go with your gut.

>

> FIRST - Sorry this is so long! If you're interested in providing feedback, I

suggest you get comfortable before attempting to read =)

>

> My son is 14 and in his Freshman year of high school. He's taking one pre-AP

(advanced placement) course this year in Algebra. This means the subject matter

moves along more quickly and requires more in depth understanding of the

material. Dylan's most favorite subject is science but there was summer work to

complete if he went pre-AP biology so he chose pre-AP algebra, instead. This was

a typical reaction of D's - he doesn't like to do extra/harder/more advanced

work if it requires more time/effort on his end. He took a pre-AP course b/c he

thinks he's smart enough to have at least one on his schedule.

[Guest guest]

Ok so you've got a few things you need to consider.

1) You son has taken initiative. Do you support him in that?

2) Two hours to do homework for an alegebra class seems extreme even for a precalculus algebra class?

3) Math is like lifting weights. You can't lift 150 until you can lift 140. If he is behind he needs to catch up fast. If he hasn't caught up over the Christmas break it is going to be very difficult.

4) Kids in the basic algebra class he might not feel as comfortable with.

Before I give you any solid advice I'd also like to know what is meant by pre-APalgebra. I've heard of AP calculus but I haven't heard of AP algebra or even pre-APalgebra. I suppose there are alegbra courses taught at colleges.

If this is just some sort of algebra for smart kids homework shouldn't take 2 hours. I can see pre-calculus algebra taking that long as some of those courses can be as tough or tougher than calculus. If this is a pre-calculus albebra then I would think he really needs to master basic algebra first before doing this. But if this class is just a faster paced algebra class then we need to question two more things

1) Does your Mom and the Teacher really know what they are doing? At my school they had the basketball coach teaching it. It really isn't that hard. Especially if you've already had a taste of it in 7th and 8th grades.

2) If the above isn't the problem and this is just a regular (but at a faster pace) algebra class then we really need to examine what part he is stuck on. Many kids that get stuck in algebra or pre-algebra don't understand fractions, the concept of fractions, and how to manipulate fractions. Thus they try to get through algebra using procedures and algorithms instead of really understanding what they are doing. This makes understanding the logic of algebra very difficult. So someone really needs to diagnose what concept he is missing. From above this doesn't sound like he is simply making careless mistakes. He is obviously struggling with some core concepts.

Once you have identified the core problem you need to back up.....really back up and make sure he gets the core problem concept down. If he can't do that quickly I would also suggest taking him out of the advanced class and putting him in regular ed until he gets it down pat.

You might try making a deal with him that you'll let him move back up to the advanced class next year if he can prove himself in the regular ed class.

On the otherhand we aren't there and we don't really know all of the core issues. But you've got to isolate the core problems now. They won't go away simply by proceeding onward with his current coursework.

I'll say it again math is a sequential process. I'm struggling a bit with Math for my 1st grade son. They are already adding and subtracting double digits. At his school they are teaching singapore math which tries to teach core ideas, I think at ages where it might be a bit too early yet. For example they are teaching that you can add 12 + 9 by peforming the following simple arithmetic in their heads. 9 + 2 + 10. They are also doing this with subtraction. My problem is that my son and I suspect a few others in the class haven't even really had time yet to learn their flash card math facts really well yet. My wife homeschooled him today in subtraction. Tonight his addition flashcards were half as fast as just two days ago. Now maybe its because he was tired or having and off day. But I can't tell you how many times I've tried to tell her we need to finish addition and get

that down really really well. And then switch to subtraction. But she insist that because they will be testing on it to mix everything up. So in one day he might do addition, subtraction, in both single and double digit problems. Keep in mind with double digits they want them to break it down into simple singular digit additions and subtractions. How can they do this if they have to think so much about the basic stuff. By the time they solve the simple arithmetic the larger problem is forgotten.

So I've been working on him with addition of any didgit combination under 10. Things were going really well until see again had him all over the place today. It takes him some time to switch gears.

Anyway you see my point. There are few things in Math where you can progress into the next phase without mastering the earlier topic. There a few things like learning to add money that if you don't master right away might not effect you later. But you can't do algebra if you don't understand fractions. You can solve for X if you don't understand order of operations, etc..... So try to isolate where he is weak, slow, or totally confused and work on that.

I think maybe that's why they are saying to go back down to the slower course. Because this will allow him to master the skills versus just sliding by.

I remember when I went to college even though I had passed the AP calculus exam FSU made me repeat not only calculus but also precalc algebra. I think because I forgot the logrithm relationships on the placement test. I'm glad they did because backing up allowed me to really build a solid foundation going forward. This helped me the rest of the way. So repeating meterial and backing up can be a very good thing.

I've seen many students even in college who managed to get by in Calc 1 and even Calc 2 only to completely fall apart in Calculus 3. Same goes for physics courses and engineering coures. You are only as good as your weakest link

Hope this helps,

Structural Engineer

From: <smacalli@...>Subject: ( ) Son struggling in advanced math class - need feedback Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 7:17 PM

FIRST - Sorry this is so long! If you're interested in providing feedback, I suggest you get comfortable before attempting to read =)My son is 14 and in his Freshman year of high school. He's taking one pre-AP (advanced placement) course this year in Algebra. This means the subject matter moves along more quickly and requires more in depth understanding of the material. Dylan's most favorite subject is science but there was summer work to complete if he went pre-AP biology so he chose pre-AP algebra, instead. This was a typical reaction of D's - he doesn't like to do extra/harder/more advanced work if it requires more time/effort on his end. He took a pre-AP course b/c he thinks he's smart enough to have at least one on his schedule.Fast forward to the end of the first semester and Dylan failed the semester with a 68. He passed each of the six weeks, but failed the semester exam which brought his grade below passing. He will be on

probation for the 4th six weeks period and if he fails it, it will be up to the principal and myself if he should be removed from pre-AP algebra and placed in a regular education algebra class. I'm clarifying a few things tomorrow with the school like what happens if he passes the 2nd semester and pulls his overall grade to passing? Will he receive a full credit for the year (right now his report card shows he didn't receive a 1/2 credit for the first semester since he failed.) So...my dilemna. My mom (who's retired) has been helping him w/ much of his homework and she had a meeting (with my blessing) with the math teacher and Dylan's SCORES teacher (autism program at school that provides support to D). My mom and his pre-AP math teacher thinks he should move to regular ed now. The kicker is that my son is adamant about not quitting. We got him a tutor at the end of the semester and that will continue on a more regular basis from here on out. He

thinks between the tutor's help and his better understanding of what it will take to pass the class, he can pass it and he wants to try. This is HUGE for him. He usually takes the path of least resistance so for him to want to try, I've decided to support his decision. The ramifications if he continues but doesn't pass include summer school, minimally. I'm not clear what else might happen. I think he would make better grades in the regular education math class. I think it would be easier. I think it would require less homework after school, something that takes him 2+ hours on most nights (just for math, not including other subjects.) But he wants to keep trying and I feel like I have to support his decision. Regardless of the outcome, I want him to know that 1) I'll support his decision and 2) I believe in him. If he ends up failing for the year, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I'm getting hung up on how much I should influence him to change

his mind. My mom thinks I'm wrong. His math teacher thinks I'm wrong. My dad understands my position. Can I get your thoughts?

[Guest guest]

,

One more thing. Another way to demonstrate my point. Your son regardless of his final grade needs to master the skills on an A level. B's maybe OK but even then its like putting in a cap or your future potential. B turn into C's.. C's turn into D's and then F's. In math you've got to get A,A, A,A all the way along. It really would be better to get an A in a nonadvanced class then a B in the advanced class. I've seen it time and time again.

Now if he can put in the work and really UNDERSTAND the material then a B in a course that started out as a C or D is fine. Because its an indication that in the end he got it. But if in the end he gets a C in the course then even though he may have proved he could pass I would suggest repeating th course. If you move him up the ladder when he barely got by with a C on a lower rung you are setting him up for failure and frustration. Southard, M.S, P.EPresidentSouthard Engineering, Inc.4566B NW 5th Blvd.Gainesville, FL 32609

From: <smacalli@...>Subject: ( ) Son struggling in advanced math class - need feedback Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 7:17 PM

FIRST - Sorry this is so long! If you're interested in providing feedback, I suggest you get comfortable before attempting to read =)My son is 14 and in his Freshman year of high school. He's taking one pre-AP (advanced placement) course this year in Algebra. This means the subject matter moves along more quickly and requires more in depth understanding of the material. Dylan's most favorite subject is science but there was summer work to complete if he went pre-AP biology so he chose pre-AP algebra, instead. This was a typical reaction of D's - he doesn't like to do extra/harder/more advanced work if it requires more time/effort on his end. He took a pre-AP course b/c he thinks he's smart enough to have at least one on his schedule.Fast forward to the end of the first semester and Dylan failed the semester with a 68. He passed each of the six weeks, but failed the semester exam which brought his grade below passing. He will be on

probation for the 4th six weeks period and if he fails it, it will be up to the principal and myself if he should be removed from pre-AP algebra and placed in a regular education algebra class. I'm clarifying a few things tomorrow with the school like what happens if he passes the 2nd semester and pulls his overall grade to passing? Will he receive a full credit for the year (right now his report card shows he didn't receive a 1/2 credit for the first semester since he failed.) So...my dilemna. My mom (who's retired) has been helping him w/ much of his homework and she had a meeting (with my blessing) with the math teacher and Dylan's SCORES teacher (autism program at school that provides support to D). My mom and his pre-AP math teacher thinks he should move to regular ed now. The kicker is that my son is adamant about not quitting. We got him a tutor at the end of the semester and that will continue on a more regular basis from here on out. He

thinks between the tutor's help and his better understanding of what it will take to pass the class, he can pass it and he wants to try. This is HUGE for him. He usually takes the path of least resistance so for him to want to try, I've decided to support his decision. The ramifications if he continues but doesn't pass include summer school, minimally. I'm not clear what else might happen. I think he would make better grades in the regular education math class. I think it would be easier. I think it would require less homework after school, something that takes him 2+ hours on most nights (just for math, not including other subjects.) But he wants to keep trying and I feel like I have to support his decision. Regardless of the outcome, I want him to know that 1) I'll support his decision and 2) I believe in him. If he ends up failing for the year, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I'm getting hung up on how much I should influence him to change

his mind. My mom thinks I'm wrong. His math teacher thinks I'm wrong. My dad understands my position. Can I get your thoughts?

[Guest guest]

I have a question for all of you if you dont mind my son greatly struggles in math has not yet been dx with aspergers but instead with adhd, his self esteem is very low and I feel that teachers is not making it any better These are some of the things she tells my son(well one ofthem other things like it. if you could read this and tell me what you think

Zack,

With much support, use of a calculator, and 1:1 step-by-step instruction as how to do the concepts on the test you did receive 23.5 out of 30. I am glad that you did attend school on December 22 so that your Unit 4 test could be completed before break. --

Voight

Highlander Way Middle School

voightm@...

517-548-6252

We believe at Highlander Way the 3 R's- Rigor,Respect and Responsibility

[Guest guest]

I completely understand your indecisiveness! On the one hand, you don't want to

discourage your son if he is truly capable of handling the work, especially

since he seems so unusually motivated. On the other hand, you don't want him to

fail or become too stressed about a class that he is not required to take when

regular algebra is perfectly acceptable.

I think the answer hinges on the reason for his struggle. If his grades are low

because he struggles to understand the material, then perhaps the regular class

would be better. If, on the other hand, he does show some strength in

mathematics, but he hasn't been working hard enough, then he should stay.

However, two hours is a lot of time to spend on one homework assignment. My son

takes a long time to complete assignments, too. Does your son receive special

time accommodations on tests? He should. Also, he may be entitled to modified HW

assignments, so that he doesn't have to spend so much time on them.

I know that you don't want to tell your son he can't do something when he wants

to so badly. If he is willing to deal with the consequences for failure (summer

school), then it may be wise to stay.

One more thing to consider is this: will the extra time he spends on math

interfere with his success in other courses?

I just reread what I wrote - I hope I haven't added to your confusion!

Good luck and let us know what happens.

Debbie

>

> FIRST - Sorry this is so long! If you're interested in providing feedback, I

suggest you get comfortable before attempting to read =)

>

> My son is 14 and in his Freshman year of high school. He's taking one pre-AP

(advanced placement) course this year in Algebra. This means the subject matter

moves along more quickly and requires more in depth understanding of the

material. Dylan's most favorite subject is science but there was summer work to

complete if he went pre-AP biology so he chose pre-AP algebra, instead. This was

a typical reaction of D's - he doesn't like to do extra/harder/more advanced

work if it requires more time/effort on his end. He took a pre-AP course b/c he

thinks he's smart enough to have at least one on his schedule.

>

> Fast forward to the end of the first semester and Dylan failed the semester

with a 68. He passed each of the six weeks, but failed the semester exam which

brought his grade below passing. He will be on probation for the 4th six weeks

period and if he fails it, it will be up to the principal and myself if he

should be removed from pre-AP algebra and placed in a regular education algebra

class. I'm clarifying a few things tomorrow with the school like what happens if

he passes the 2nd semester and pulls his overall grade to passing? Will he

receive a full credit for the year (right now his report card shows he didn't

receive a 1/2 credit for the first semester since he failed.)

>

> So...my dilemna. My mom (who's retired) has been helping him w/ much of his

homework and she had a meeting (with my blessing) with the math teacher and

Dylan's SCORES teacher (autism program at school that provides support to D).

My mom and his pre-AP math teacher thinks he should move to regular ed now. The

kicker is that my son is adamant about not quitting. We got him a tutor at the

end of the semester and that will continue on a more regular basis from here on

out. He thinks between the tutor's help and his better understanding of what it

will take to pass the class, he can pass it and he wants to try. This is HUGE

for him. He usually takes the path of least resistance so for him to want to

try, I've decided to support his decision. The ramifications if he continues

but doesn't pass include summer school, minimally. I'm not clear what else

might happen. I think he would make better grades in the regular education math

class. I think it would be easier. I think it would require less homework

after school, something that takes him 2+ hours on most nights (just for math,

not including other subjects.) But he wants to keep trying and I feel like I

have to support his decision. Regardless of the outcome, I want him to know

that 1) I'll support his decision and 2) I believe in him. If he ends up failing

for the year, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I'm getting hung up on

how much I should influence him to change his mind. My mom thinks I'm wrong. His

math teacher thinks I'm wrong. My dad understands my position. Can I get your

thoughts?

>

[Guest guest]

One question - were there tests as part of those first 6 weeks? If yes and he

passed them then how was the final so different? My son takes honors math (no

AP). There are numerous tests each term plus the final at the end of the

semester. He is allowed extra time if he needs it on any test but typically he's

the first one in class finished with the test. He's a sophomore now. For his

freshman year we put him in college prep level courses (one step below honors)

because even though he had the grades for honors courses we didn't want him

overwhelmed as he started h.s.

Two hours for homework - every night? It's either that your son is struggling or

the teacher over loads the entire class with homework. I'd ask the teacher how

long he expects the average student in his class to take doing homework each

night. If your son is taking way above the average time then you should request

modified homework assignments. We did this when we discovered that the chapter

notes that an English teacher had assigned were supposed to take half hour

at most and it was taking my son hours. It's not necessary to do tons of

homework if the teacher is actually teaching in class. (I felt that these

chapter notes were busy work so was happy when the teacher cut them back.)

Have you discussed the possibility of summer school with your son? Does he

realize if he doesn't pass that it is likely he will have to attend summer

school? We had a similar situation for my son on the state tests which he has to

pass to graduate. The kids take versions of the tests starting in elementary

school and go through to sophomore year when the scores count for graduation. In

8th grade my son made the minimum effort on the essay part of the English test

because he didn't feel like making too much of an effort. He got a Needs

Improvement because of it (got everything else correct on the test). I told him

that if he makes a good effort this year then he won't have to take the test

again. (They allow them to take it until they receive a passing grade.) I'll

remind him again when he takes the test. He doesn't want to keep taking the test

so is planning to make a better effort this year.

It's great that your son wants to take the AP class. My son doesn't concern

himself with course levels. He just wants to make sure that he doesn't stress

out too much. He's already planning to take at least 5 years to graduate

college.

Caroline

>

> FIRST - Sorry this is so long! If you're interested in providing feedback, I

suggest you get comfortable before attempting to read =)

>

> My son is 14 and in his Freshman year of high school. He's taking one pre-AP

(advanced placement) course this year in Algebra. This means the subject matter

moves along more quickly and requires more in depth understanding of the

material. Dylan's most favorite subject is science but there was summer work to

complete if he went pre-AP biology so he chose pre-AP algebra, instead. This was

a typical reaction of D's - he doesn't like to do extra/harder/more advanced

work if it requires more time/effort on his end. He took a pre-AP course b/c he

thinks he's smart enough to have at least one on his schedule.

>

> Fast forward to the end of the first semester and Dylan failed the semester

with a 68. He passed each of the six weeks, but failed the semester exam which

brought his grade below passing. He will be on probation for the 4th six weeks

period and if he fails it, it will be up to the principal and myself if he

should be removed from pre-AP algebra and placed in a regular education algebra

class. I'm clarifying a few things tomorrow with the school like what happens if

he passes the 2nd semester and pulls his overall grade to passing? Will he

receive a full credit for the year (right now his report card shows he didn't

receive a 1/2 credit for the first semester since he failed.)

>

> So...my dilemna. My mom (who's retired) has been helping him w/ much of his

homework and she had a meeting (with my blessing) with the math teacher and

Dylan's SCORES teacher (autism program at school that provides support to D).

My mom and his pre-AP math teacher thinks he should move to regular ed now. The

kicker is that my son is adamant about not quitting. We got him a tutor at the

end of the semester and that will continue on a more regular basis from here on

out. He thinks between the tutor's help and his better understanding of what it

will take to pass the class, he can pass it and he wants to try. This is HUGE

for him. He usually takes the path of least resistance so for him to want to

try, I've decided to support his decision. The ramifications if he continues

but doesn't pass include summer school, minimally. I'm not clear what else

might happen. I think he would make better grades in the regular education math

class. I think it would be easier. I think it would require less homework

after school, something that takes him 2+ hours on most nights (just for math,

not including other subjects.) But he wants to keep trying and I feel like I

have to support his decision. Regardless of the outcome, I want him to know

that 1) I'll support his decision and 2) I believe in him. If he ends up failing

for the year, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I'm getting hung up on

how much I should influence him to change his mind. My mom thinks I'm wrong. His

math teacher thinks I'm wrong. My dad understands my position. Can I get your

thoughts?

>

[Guest guest]

Boy ,

I agree with Caroline and you and your dad. he he.

I think that if he reallly wants to keep going and is willing to do the work, you gotta let him do this.

BUT,,,,,,,and I'm sure you've let him in on it already, but, you gotta let him know where he stands with his grades and what the ramifications are if he doesn't get the grades up.

Also.....like Caroline said, find out how much homework is "expected" each night. Then again,,,,,,,,,sure, maybe only 1 hour of homework is "recommended"...but maybe for him - he needs the extra time and doesn't mind it......and is willing to do it.Heck - I say, "Good for him!!!!". Most people would say to take the easier course and that would make sense. But,,,,your son is willing to try and do the work - knowing that he's got to put in more time and knowing that he's struggling....but again, is willing to stick it out!!!What an amazing thing!! Imagine how amazing he'll feel (and you,too), should he pass this course - knowing it was tough and knowing the time he put into it!!! Yay!!!

Maybe you should also look at your options -

*** You can let him do what he really wants to do and try

or

*** You can make him go to the class that is probably better suited and easier (not in the condescending way).

I think I'd pick what you and your dad are leaning towards.

Good luck!!!

Robin

PEOPLE MAY NOT REMEMBER EXACTLY

WHAT YOU DID OR WHAT YOU SAID,

BUT THEY WILL ALWAYS REMEMBER

HOW YOU MADE THEM FEEL

From: Catcelia <c2cats@...>Subject: ( ) Re: Son struggling in advanced math class - need feedback Date: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 8:54 AM

One question - were there tests as part of those first 6 weeks? If yes and he passed them then how was the final so different? My son takes honors math (no AP). There are numerous tests each term plus the final at the end of the semester. He is allowed extra time if he needs it on any test but typically he's the first one in class finished with the test. He's a sophomore now. For his freshman year we put him in college prep level courses (one step below honors) because even though he had the grades for honors courses we didn't want him overwhelmed as he started h.s.Two hours for homework - every night? It's either that your son is struggling or the teacher over loads the entire class with homework. I'd ask the teacher how long he expects the average student in his class to take doing homework each night. If your son is taking way above the average time then you should request modified homework assignments. We did this when we discovered that

the chapter notes that an English teacher had assigned were supposed to take half hour at most and it was taking my son hours. It's not necessary to do tons of homework if the teacher is actually teaching in class. (I felt that these chapter notes were busy work so was happy when the teacher cut them back.)Have you discussed the possibility of summer school with your son? Does he realize if he doesn't pass that it is likely he will have to attend summer school? We had a similar situation for my son on the state tests which he has to pass to graduate. The kids take versions of the tests starting in elementary school and go through to sophomore year when the scores count for graduation. In 8th grade my son made the minimum effort on the essay part of the English test because he didn't feel like making too much of an effort. He got a Needs Improvement because of it (got everything else correct on the test). I told him that if he makes a good

effort this year then he won't have to take the test again. (They allow them to take it until they receive a passing grade.) I'll remind him again when he takes the test. He doesn't want to keep taking the test so is planning to make a better effort this year.It's great that your son wants to take the AP class. My son doesn't concern himself with course levels. He just wants to make sure that he doesn't stress out too much. He's already planning to take at least 5 years to graduate college.Caroline>> FIRST - Sorry this is so long! If you're interested in providing feedback, I suggest you get comfortable before attempting to read =)> > My son is 14 and in

his Freshman year of high school. He's taking one pre-AP (advanced placement) course this year in Algebra. This means the subject matter moves along more quickly and requires more in depth understanding of the material. Dylan's most favorite subject is science but there was summer work to complete if he went pre-AP biology so he chose pre-AP algebra, instead. This was a typical reaction of D's - he doesn't like to do extra/harder/more advanced work if it requires more time/effort on his end. He took a pre-AP course b/c he thinks he's smart enough to have at least one on his schedule.> > Fast forward to the end of the first semester and Dylan failed the semester with a 68. He passed each of the six weeks, but failed the semester exam which brought his grade below passing. He will be on probation for the 4th six weeks period and if he fails it, it will be up to the principal and myself if he should be removed from pre-AP algebra and placed

in a regular education algebra class. I'm clarifying a few things tomorrow with the school like what happens if he passes the 2nd semester and pulls his overall grade to passing? Will he receive a full credit for the year (right now his report card shows he didn't receive a 1/2 credit for the first semester since he failed.) > > So...my dilemna. My mom (who's retired) has been helping him w/ much of his homework and she had a meeting (with my blessing) with the math teacher and Dylan's SCORES teacher (autism program at school that provides support to D). My mom and his pre-AP math teacher thinks he should move to regular ed now. The kicker is that my son is adamant about not quitting. We got him a tutor at the end of the semester and that will continue on a more regular basis from here on out. He thinks between the tutor's help and his better understanding of what it will take to pass the class, he can pass it and he wants to try. This is

HUGE for him. He usually takes the path of least resistance so for him to want to try, I've decided to support his decision. The ramifications if he continues but doesn't pass include summer school, minimally. I'm not clear what else might happen. I think he would make better grades in the regular education math class. I think it would be easier. I think it would require less homework after school, something that takes him 2+ hours on most nights (just for math, not including other subjects.) But he wants to keep trying and I feel like I have to support his decision. Regardless of the outcome, I want him to know that 1) I'll support his decision and 2) I believe in him. If he ends up failing for the year, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I'm getting hung up on how much I should influence him to change his mind. My mom thinks I'm wrong. His math teacher thinks I'm wrong. My dad understands my position. Can I get your

thoughts?>

[Guest guest]

,

I see your points as far as grades. But, man, as far as life goes...............him choosing to stick it out and try seems like a far-better thing.

Dont' get me wrong, better grades usally equal better colleges, etc. But, for most of us, getting into a college is fairly simple. As long as there's a diploma and a payment, you're in.Obviously, if you're going into a field where advanced math is necessary - it's different.

But, for the most part, passing is good. So,,,,,,for him to want to try and be willing to "not quit".......wow - I was impressed!!!!

(I didn't mean this to offend you, . Just wanted to mention that I thought his views were so much more than academic).

Robin

PEOPLE MAY NOT REMEMBER EXACTLY

WHAT YOU DID OR WHAT YOU SAID,

BUT THEY WILL ALWAYS REMEMBER

HOW YOU MADE THEM FEEL

From: <smacalli@...>Subject: ( ) Son struggling in advanced math class - need feedback Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 7:17 PM

FIRST - Sorry this is so long! If you're interested in providing feedback, I suggest you get comfortable before attempting to read =)My son is 14 and in his Freshman year of high school. He's taking one pre-AP (advanced placement) course this year in Algebra. This means the subject matter moves along more quickly and requires more in depth understanding of the material. Dylan's most favorite subject is science but there was summer work to complete if he went pre-AP biology so he chose pre-AP algebra, instead. This was a typical reaction of D's - he doesn't like to do extra/harder/more advanced work if it requires more time/effort on his end. He took a pre-AP course b/c he thinks he's smart enough to have at least one on his schedule.Fast forward to the end of the first semester and Dylan failed the semester with a 68. He passed each of the six weeks, but failed the semester exam which brought his grade below passing. He will be on

probation for the 4th six weeks period and if he fails it, it will be up to the principal and myself if he should be removed from pre-AP algebra and placed in a regular education algebra class. I'm clarifying a few things tomorrow with the school like what happens if he passes the 2nd semester and pulls his overall grade to passing? Will he receive a full credit for the year (right now his report card shows he didn't receive a 1/2 credit for the first semester since he failed.) So...my dilemna. My mom (who's retired) has been helping him w/ much of his homework and she had a meeting (with my blessing) with the math teacher and Dylan's SCORES teacher (autism program at school that provides support to D). My mom and his pre-AP math teacher thinks he should move to regular ed now. The kicker is that my son is adamant about not quitting. We got him a tutor at the end of the semester and that will continue on a more regular basis from here on out. He

thinks between the tutor's help and his better understanding of what it will take to pass the class, he can pass it and he wants to try. This is HUGE for him. He usually takes the path of least resistance so for him to want to try, I've decided to support his decision. The ramifications if he continues but doesn't pass include summer school, minimally. I'm not clear what else might happen. I think he would make better grades in the regular education math class. I think it would be easier. I think it would require less homework after school, something that takes him 2+ hours on most nights (just for math, not including other subjects.) But he wants to keep trying and I feel like I have to support his decision. Regardless of the outcome, I want him to know that 1) I'll support his decision and 2) I believe in him. If he ends up failing for the year, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I'm getting hung up on how much I should influence him to change

his mind. My mom thinks I'm wrong. His math teacher thinks I'm wrong. My dad understands my position. Can I get your thoughts?

[Guest guest]

I am here with you. I have fraternal twin freshmen sons who started second

semester today. Both failed math their first semester so I had to make a choice

for them today whether they would continue to try in their math classes or if I

would bump them down a level, so I bumped them down. Yeah, they have a few

misgivings, but I wanted them to feel success and not be so overwhelmed, which

is very typical with an Asperger's diagnosis. There are three levels of math in

their school - Honors, Academic, and College Prep. These classes have weighted

grades, so even though one of my sons flunked Honors Geometry, got a D in Honors

Biology, he ended up with a 3.5 gpa. He stayed in his AP World History because

he was doing well in it. I want my boy's to feel success and understand the

material. If going at a slower pace in some subjects is necessary, then bring

it on. This doesn't mean they are less intellligent, but I am trying to make

them more personally responsible for their schedules and homework. It is high

school and I should not be helping them on a regular basis. There is more to

the life of a teenager than homework. Two hours on math a day is too many. I

know because we lived that in elementary and junior high. I believe that in the

long run, they will eventually mature and figure things out (cuz they are very

much like their father who turned out to be a very successful business man with

an advanced degree). Who ever said high school was the best time of their

life???

Deborah

[Guest guest]

I don't mean to beat this dead horse but perhaps you can find some middle ground. Perhaps you can keep in in the class and let him gut it out. But then over the summer your gonna have to keep going and make sure he really know the stuff. Regardless of what decision is made just make sure he really understands the material before he moves on to the next course. Perhaps you can have the best of both worlds.

Just try to isolate whats wrong. Sometimes you've got to step back from math and when you go back to it, it will make sense. Same thing with slowing down or backing off. Also sometimes AS kids mature slower. It wouldn't be a stretch if the part of the brain utilized in math is maturing slowly also. There was a study a few years ago that discovered that one reason that girls might not perform as good at boys at math isn't lack of ability but a slower maturation rate for that part of the brain. So at an early age they believe they aren't good at math when really they just aren't ready.

Now by High School this wouldn't be the case. But maybe for an AS kid.

Just do what you think is best for your son. If you decide to keep him in the class you can work on Math during the summer to fix any lingering issues.

From: deborahjoyw <Deborahwas@...>Subject: ( ) Re: Son struggling in advanced math class - need feedback Date: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 8:19 PM

I am here with you. I have fraternal twin freshmen sons who started second semester today. Both failed math their first semester so I had to make a choice for them today whether they would continue to try in their math classes or if I would bump them down a level, so I bumped them down. Yeah, they have a few misgivings, but I wanted them to feel success and not be so overwhelmed, which is very typical with an Asperger's diagnosis. There are three levels of math in their school - Honors, Academic, and College Prep. These classes have weighted grades, so even though one of my sons flunked Honors Geometry, got a D in Honors Biology, he ended up with a 3.5 gpa. He stayed in his AP World History because he was doing well in it. I want my boy's to feel success and understand the material. If going at a slower pace in some subjects is necessary, then bring it on. This doesn't mean they are less intellligent, but I am trying to make them more personally

responsible for their schedules and homework. It is high school and I should not be helping them on a regular basis. There is more to the life of a teenager than homework. Two hours on math a day is too many. I know because we lived that in elementary and junior high. I believe that in the long run, they will eventually mature and figure things out (cuz they are very much like their father who turned out to be a very successful business man with an advanced degree). Who ever said high school was the best time of their life???Deborah

[Guest guest]

I think the teacher is being rude. I would ask teacher to be more encouraging or stop writing messages altogether.

Roxanna

“Our lives begin to end the day we

become silent about things that matter.†- Luther King, Jr.

( ) Re: Son struggling in advanced math class - need feedback

I have a question for all of you if you dont mind my son greatly struggles in math has not yet been dx with aspergers but instead with adhd, his self esteem is very low and I feel that teachers is not making it any better These are some of the things she tells my son(well one ofthem other things like it. if you could read this and tell me what you think

Zack,

With much support, use of a calculator, and 1:1 step-by-step instruction as how to do the concepts on the test you did receive 23.5 out of 30. I am glad that you did attend school on December 22 so that your Unit 4 test could be completed before break. --

Voight

Highlander Way Middle School

voightm@...

517-548-6252

We believe at Highlander Way the 3 R's- Rigor,Respect and Responsibility

[Guest guest]

Everyone else had great ideas! I agree with you because he sees the problem and wants a chance to fix it. It's his problem and you've outlined options for him. He chose the solution. Now he has to do the work. I would just discuss the consequences if his grades do not improve (i.e. summer school.) And I would have suggested the tutor, which you are already doing. Sounds like you just have to sit back and see how things go. I hope Alg clicks for him! And also, some math is harder for some people than others. I remember high school Geometry as being a hazy year of numbness. lol. Totally did not get anything that year. I did retake it with my ds (e-schooling) and I finally got it. lol. But back then, I could do Alg all day long but not Geometry. Hopefully his tutor will help. There are some great online tutors as well he could try. Sometimes seeing it visually can make a difference.

Also, the teacher really makes a difference. Some teachers can make learning math really fun. My ds is gifted in math but he was failing a pre-alg. class in middle school. It made no sense. I think the teacher just lost him from the start because he is now taking Alg 2 this year as a Freshman. I did not try to figure out the problem (there were so many at the time) and we just went to e-schooling, where he quickly advanced. But it would have been interesting to figure out what they were doing. lol. (I do remember saying something not nice at the time, lol) I just tell this story to remind you how much a teacher can affect outcomes sometimes.

Another thing I noticed is that you say he did fine on the work but he failed the semester exam. You might take note of what kind of exam this was. For some kids, that can make a difference. Or they can freeze before tests. Some teachers want to get tricky on tests too so that can be hard. You know, they give you the one almost impossible problem to solve when the whole semester, you didn't strain once to solve any of them.

I hope he manages to improve his grade!!!! Let me know!

Roxanna

“Our lives begin to end the day we

become silent about things that matter.†- Luther King, Jr.

( ) Son struggling in advanced math class - need feedback

FIRST - Sorry this is so long! If you're interested in providing feedback, I suggest you get comfortable before attempting to read =)

My son is 14 and in his Freshman year of high school. He's taking one pre-AP (advanced placement) course this year in Algebra. This means the subject matter moves along more quickly and requires more in depth understanding of the material. Dylan's most favorite subject is science but there was summer work to complete if he went pre-AP biology so he chose pre-AP algebra, instead. This was a typical reaction of D's - he doesn't like to do extra/harder/more advanced work if it requires more time/effort on his end. He took a pre-AP course b/c he thinks he's smart enough to have at least one on his schedule.

Fast forward to the end of the first semester and Dylan failed the semester with a 68. He passed each of the six weeks, but failed the semester exam which brought his grade below passing. He will be on probation for the 4th six weeks period and if he fails it, it will be up to the principal and myself if he should be removed from pre-AP algebra and placed in a regular education algebra class. I'm clarifying a few things tomorrow with the school like what happens if he passes the 2nd semester and pulls his overall grade to passing? Will he receive a full credit for the year (right now his report card shows he didn't receive a 1/2 credit for the first semester since he failed.)

So...my dilemna. My mom (who's retired) has been helping him w/ much of his homework and she had a meeting (with my blessing) with the math teacher and Dylan's SCORES teacher (autism program at school that provides support to D). My mom and his pre-AP math teacher thinks he should move to regular ed now. The kicker is that my son is adamant about not quitting. We got him a tutor at the end of the semester and that will continue on a more regular basis from here on out. He thinks between the tutor's help and his better understanding of what it will take to pass the class, he can pass it and he wants to try. This is HUGE for him. He usually takes the path of least resistance so for him to want to try, I've decided to support his decision. The ramifications if he continues but doesn't pass include summer school, minimally. I'm not clear what else might happen. I think he would make better grades in the regular education math class. I think it would be easier. I think it would require less homework after school, something that takes him 2+ hours on most nights (just for math, not including other subjects.) But he wants to keep trying and I feel like I have to support his decision. Regardless of the outcome, I want him to know that 1) I'll support his decision and 2) I believe in him. If he ends up failing for the year, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I'm getting hung up on how much I should influence him to change his mind. My mom thinks I'm wrong. His math teacher thinks I'm wrong. My dad understands my position. Can I get your thoughts?