Re: Meeting with the Principal tomorrow - advice needed

[Guest guest]

Are you here in the USA? First, the principal is not a doctor. So

whether he " believes " in a medical dx or not is certainly up to him but

has nothing to do with whether your child has a legit medical dx or

not. In other words, we don't care if he doesn't " believe " it. I

would write a follow up letter and restate that he is saying that to

you for your records. How rude and ignorant of him.

Second, I would NOT entertain a person who wanted to discuss possible

ways of punishing. They say " discipline " but what they mean is, " How

can we do something offensive to your child to make them stop having

the problems they are having or the behaviors they are displaying. "

With a child who has autism, this is not a simple remedy of punishing

them to make them stop.

I would go to the meeting and request an FBA again and in

writing...this is the only way to deal with the behaviors. Once they

have a professional come in and assess what is going on, then you can

sit down with the IEP team and design a POSITIVE behavior plan. I

would not agree to anything less than this and would tell principal

this.

If he cannot manage until the FBA is done, then they need to provide an

aide to be with him at all times to help him until then. That is

pretty much where such a discussion would go with me! Let us know how

it goes!

Roxanna

" The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do

nothing. " E. Burke

( ) Meeting with the Principal tomorrow -

advice needed

Tomorrow at 8:30 am my husband and I have an appointment with the

Principal.

He wants to talk about my son's misbehavior -- though NOT in a special

ed context -- he wants to come up with a plan of discipline.

As I've already officially requested an FBA and an IEP review -- should

I just yes him at this meeting and carry out or not carry out whatever

he decrees depending on whether I think it makes sense? I know enough

not to sign anything.

I know that my son's misbehavior is directly related to his diagnoses

of adhd & aspergers but since the school has not yet had a meeting with

me to discuss this new diagnoses - he (the principal) has already told

me that he doesn't recognize these diagnoses.

Thanks for your input.

[Guest guest]

I missed how this meeting was created. Did the priuncipal make the request to speak with you about  your son's behavior in writing? I would have asked for it if he made the request verbally--think paper trail.

 

I would have only agreed to the meeting if the iep team was there--does your son have one? It's not up to your principal to accept or reject a child's diagnosis. There are state and federal rules.

 

I would be taking notes at the meeting--perhaps bring a tape recorder. I would let him speak. Then, if you hear that he only wants to find ways to punish your son, I would tell the principal to put all his suggestions in a letter to you. Why isn't your spec. ed. team involved in this meeting? How is he allowed to side step them? Btw, did you put your fba request in writing?

 

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:39 PM, M <rachelfran@...wrote:

 

Tomorrow at 8:30 am my husband and I have an appointment with the Principal.He wants to talk about my son's misbehavior -- though NOT in a special ed context -- he wants to come up with a plan of discipline.

As I've already officially requested an FBA and an IEP review -- should I just yes him at this meeting and carry out or not carry out whatever he decrees depending on whether I think it makes sense? I know enough not to sign anything.

I know that my son's misbehavior is directly related to his diagnoses of adhd & aspergers but since the school has not yet had a meeting with me to discuss this new diagnoses - he (the principal) has already told me that he doesn't recognize these diagnoses.

Thanks for your input.

[Guest guest]

I feel so sad when I hear things like this. I don't see why they won't just

stop and THINK a second. They would make their own lives easier if they'd do

it. Punishment isn't the answer in all situations. In my not-so-humble opinion

punishment is a complete waste of time. I finished my BA in Psychology back in

1992, 17 years ago. In about 1991 I took a class in Learning and Motivation.

The instructor said, " We don't even investigate punishment any more because all

it does is introduce irratic behavior. " Punishment might get one problems under

control but it will cause several new and more distressing problems and it just

isn't worth it. They don't consider time-out to be punishment and it shouldn't

be used that way. It is a removal from a rewarding environment. Of course to a

kid it does seem like punishment but it doesn't create a lot of weird reactions

like avoidance. Kids put in time out aren't afraid of the person who put them

there. Consequences should be logical if there ARE any but the kids who have

behavior issues because of autism are already scared and confused and

consequences made up by people just make it worse. Your son will want to avoid

school or he'll get into fight or flight mode. If there are consequences they

should be natural to the situation. It's hard, sometimes, to make this happen.

Here's an example: My son wanted to go outside. It was 20 degrees and there

was snow on the ground. He didn't want to wear shoes or a coat. I gave up

trying to get him to put on winter clothes and just let him go out the door. In

about 10 seconds he came back in, put on his coat and shoes and he never fought

that battle again. He didn't feel punished or angry with any people, just

uncomfortable due to his own behavior. Nobody TOLD him what to do and nobody

punished him. Oh it's such a beautiful thing when you can make that happen. In

school, you can't. He needs to be caught in the act of appropriate behavior.

" I like the way you used words. " " I like when you come in from recess without

crying. " " I like when you say please and thank you. " " You have had a good day.

You used words and not your arms and legs to tell people what you need. " Avoid

consequences, punishment, etc. They really REALLY need to ignore as much bad

behavior as they can. Giving it attention may give him a reward of attention

which will undoubtedly increase the behavior. Show them my letter if you think

it would help. Finding out the causes and functions of behavior (attention,

avoidance, sensory input, fear, frustration) will lead to answers. I would

venture a guess that attention is probably not on top of the list of functions.

My son was accused of wanting attention but it just isn't true. He wants peace

and he wants not to be scared and confused and frustrated. He wants someone to

help him. If he can't have those he'd be happier just fading into the wall or

hiding under a desk and avoiding people completely.

I wish I could come with you to the meeting!

Miriam

>

> Tomorrow at 8:30 am my husband and I have an appointment with the Principal.

>

> He wants to talk about my son's misbehavior -- though NOT in a special ed

context -- he wants to come up with a plan of discipline.

>

> As I've already officially requested an FBA and an IEP review -- should I just

yes him at this meeting and carry out or not carry out whatever he decrees

depending on whether I think it makes sense? I know enough not to sign anything.

>

> I know that my son's misbehavior is directly related to his diagnoses of adhd

& aspergers but since the school has not yet had a meeting with me to discuss

this new diagnoses - he (the principal) has already told me that he doesn't

recognize these diagnoses.

>

>

> Thanks for your input.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with the advice you were given by Roxanna. Ask again for an IEP. Be

polite, but firm in making your request for an IEP. Make it clear that your son

has AS and that the behavior plan they propose won't work for his disability.

Don't yell or cry.

After the meeting, write the principal and summarize what was discussed. Make

another formal written request for an IEP and copy the head of special ed in

your school district. The letter will be part of your paper trail and can help

you later on if the principal continues to drag his feet on following the law.

Your principal may not be aware that there is a legal obligation to respond to a

request for an IEP within X days, but the head of special ed certainly will take

your written request for an IEP seriously. And if they mess up on following the

law, it will make your case stronger if you ever have to go work with advocate

or go to court.

It's probably too late for the meeting with the principal, but I would suggest

bringing a tape recorder to meetings. It might make the principal be more

careful about what he is about to say.

The principal and teachers have probably discussed a medical diagnosis amongst

themselves and so are forging ahead with a plan, but they are NOT qualified to

practice medicine. They are also not qualified to prescribe services for a

medical condition either. If they know anything about AS, then they would know

that a behavior plan won't work. I know that I heard all kinds of crazy

suggestions from teachers before my son had a formal diagnosis. None of them got

it right, but they were all correct in knowing that something was different

about my son.

Your son is having problems in school, but they are a result of a disability,

not something that someone can beat - I mean - discipline out of him. Be strong

for your son. You can do this.

[Guest guest]

I have requested an IEP review and an FBA in writing ... to the school and cc'd

to the chairperson of the committee on special ed in our district....

I contacted a regional person who called the principal directly and informed him

on details about the FBA that he clearly was unaware of ... He apologized in the

meeting at his lack of understanding and said it would be carried out asap.

The meeting today was mostly to lecture us about how we parent at home and how

that can be related to behavior difficulties seen in school. He is not

willing to see any developmental delays or diagnoses and doesn't believe these

should be used to hold my son to a different standard from the rest of the

school. He thinks my son is capable of respecting the rules and teachers, etc.

There is no flexibility.

Therefore, come the IEP review - I will need to ask for whatever supports are

necessary to help my son get through the course of the school day.

Can anyone let me know what kinds of accommodations or supports might be

helpful?

It seems to me that the biggest problems they are having with my son is his need

to constantly question directives -- and not just follow through ...They see

this as defiant - which he can be. His problems w/organization -- unpacking,

getting books out in a timely manner, putting them away.... are problematic, as

well.

These issues are most clearly associated with the aspergers but my son is in a

general education classroom setting and they are not willing to take his

diagnoses into account for these things.

While getting him out of this school is something we would consider, we just

moved and this is already a new setting for my son. Moving to another school --

even a better one -- is going to entail a whole new transition for my son -- and

we all know how aspies do w/transitions... Not to mention - the new school would

be further away meaning he'd have to take a bus and I would not be able to very

involved.

Does anyone have any thoughts or advice to share?

>

> I missed how this meeting was created. Did the priuncipal make the request

> to speak with you about your son's behavior in writing? I would have asked

> for it if he made the request verbally--think paper trail.

>

> I would have only agreed to the meeting if the iep team was there--does your

> son have one? It's not up to your principal to accept or reject a child's

> diagnosis. There are state and federal rules.

>

> I would be taking notes at the meeting--perhaps bring a tape recorder. I

> would let him speak. Then, if you hear that he only wants to find ways to

> punish your son, I would tell the principal to put all his suggestions in a

> letter to you. Why isn't your spec. ed. team involved in this meeting? How

> is he allowed to side step them? Btw, did you put your fba request in

> writing?

>

>

> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:39 PM, M <rachelfran@...:

>

> >

> >

> > Tomorrow at 8:30 am my husband and I have an appointment with the

> > Principal.

> >

> > He wants to talk about my son's misbehavior -- though NOT in a special ed

> > context -- he wants to come up with a plan of discipline.

> >

> > As I've already officially requested an FBA and an IEP review -- should I

> > just yes him at this meeting and carry out or not carry out whatever he

> > decrees depending on whether I think it makes sense? I know enough not to

> > sign anything.

> >

> > I know that my son's misbehavior is directly related to his diagnoses of

> > adhd & aspergers but since the school has not yet had a meeting with me to

> > discuss this new diagnoses - he (the principal) has already told me that he

> > doesn't recognize these diagnoses.

> >

> > Thanks for your input.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi :

My son is only in first grade, so we don't have too many accommodations for

things yet with the exception of when they are " testing " (seriously - how many

tests do they have in first grade) - but when they are doing their assessments -

to make sure the children are on track - my son does these outside of the

classroom with the special ed teacher. Because it's in a one on one setting (or

at least the special ed teacher with just a few kids) - he seems to do much

better and they are able to get a better read on my son's abilities.

Supports - there are two paraprofessionals in his classroom (one in the morning,

one in the afternoon) - they are assigned to the classroom as a whole and will

help any child that needs assistance - but when I have been in the room briefly,

they are pretty much with my son. They sit right next to him and just keep him

on task. He has motor breaks which the teacher is learning to read when he

needs them and sets him up for them. One of his biggest challenges was arrival

at school - he would get off the bus and have trouble with the locker/morning

routine. So the a.m. para meets him at his locker, he takes off his jacket and

he goes for a walk around the ground floor of the school. By the time he gets

back to his locker, the area is a little clearer (too many kids=too much

distraction) and he can unload his backpack and enter the classroom. He gets

motor breaks where he gets to go to the motor room and bounce or swing, whatever

he needs to do.

My only advise to you right now is to read, read, read and learn your rights. I

find that the more we advocate for our children the better we are and the more

we get. I have come to accept that my son will never have a true one-on-one

aide, but as long as he is doing o.k. with what he has, I'm happy. At this

point, you should ask for a PPT and try to get an IEP in place as quickly as

possible.

Good luck

Janna

> >

> > I missed how this meeting was created. Did the priuncipal make the request

> > to speak with you about your son's behavior in writing? I would have asked

> > for it if he made the request verbally--think paper trail.

> >

> > I would have only agreed to the meeting if the iep team was there--does your

> > son have one? It's not up to your principal to accept or reject a child's

> > diagnosis. There are state and federal rules.

> >

> > I would be taking notes at the meeting--perhaps bring a tape recorder. I

> > would let him speak. Then, if you hear that he only wants to find ways to

> > punish your son, I would tell the principal to put all his suggestions in a

> > letter to you. Why isn't your spec. ed. team involved in this meeting? How

> > is he allowed to side step them? Btw, did you put your fba request in

> > writing?

> >

> >

> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:39 PM, M <rachelfran@:

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Tomorrow at 8:30 am my husband and I have an appointment with the

> > > Principal.

> > >

> > > He wants to talk about my son's misbehavior -- though NOT in a special ed

> > > context -- he wants to come up with a plan of discipline.

> > >

> > > As I've already officially requested an FBA and an IEP review -- should I

> > > just yes him at this meeting and carry out or not carry out whatever he

> > > decrees depending on whether I think it makes sense? I know enough not to

> > > sign anything.

> > >

> > > I know that my son's misbehavior is directly related to his diagnoses of

> > > adhd & aspergers but since the school has not yet had a meeting with me to

> > > discuss this new diagnoses - he (the principal) has already told me that

he

> > > doesn't recognize these diagnoses.

> > >

> > > Thanks for your input.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I realize the principal used the, " It's not fair to the other children

if your child has different rules " line but it's also not fair unless

all the other kids have AS too. lol. then we could really call it

" fair. " More to the point, life isn't fair and what we strive to do

with all children is give them what they NEED. For some kids, they

need more than others and some need it longer than others. This is not

" unfair " but rather, common child development.

And this is not anything to do with " fairness " but rather, educating a

child according to their needs. For kids with special needs, the IDEA

says that they must provide a " free and appropriate education " (FAPE) -

it does not say " as long as that seems fair to everyone. " It just says

FAPE will be provided and FAPE looks different for each kid since it is

tailored to their specific needs. I often heard the line, " He has to

learn sometime! " and the truth is, he has a disability and may never

learn to do (whatever). So yes, we do want to teach him the skills he

needs but not force him to be who he can't be. He's not " normal " and

it's not going to fall from the sky and land on his head! It will need

to be taught to him - no matter what " it " is.

I would let principal know these things but not waste too much energy

on him. You need to go over his head and deal with the head of special

education. Often times, the regular ed staff do not know the laws and

know very little about special needs. In these cases, it is so much

easier to go over them all directly to sped - well, at least I have

found that to be the case for us. Let them tell staff what the laws

are and what they need to be doing. Many times, I have found that

staff will not do anything you say anyway because you are a mere

parent. <g> But then they hear it from the director of sped and they

suddenly realize they have to do it.

As for help in the classroom, an FBA should identify what the problems

are and the ways to help him. It's hard to suggest without knowing

what is going on. One time we had an FBA done and I was surprised at

how many things were going on that I didn't even know about or think

about! And you need to figure out why he is refusing to cooperate in

order to really provide a solution that will work. For instance, he is

so bored that he refuses to do it? Does he just hate his teacher for

being mean to him all year and won't cooperate with that specific

person? Is it his nature to refuse to do what he is asked to do

(questions everything?) Those are just off the top of my head but each

one would get a different suggestion as to how to approach dealing with

it. If he is bored and considers the work " baby work " , you have to get

him in a class that is challenging enough. If he hates his teacher,

you may need to request he be transferred to a different person because

that relationship is so bad now. If he just always argues and refuses

to do things when asked, I would probably design a reward system for

him and I would probably study his habits and work in pieces on that

one.

So you see, the key is discovering via the FBA what is causing the

refusal to do the work. He could need help with basic social skills, a

reward system, a new class...it could be a variety of things. It could

be more than one thing causing the problem too. The FBA will hopefully

figure it out and let you know what direction to go in!

Roxanna

" The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do

nothing. " E. Burke

Re: ( ) Meeting with the Principal tomorrow -

advice needed

I have requested an IEP review and an FBA in writing ... to the school

and cc'd to the chairperson of the committee on special ed in our

district....

I contacted a regional person who called the principal directly and

informed him on details about the FBA that he clearly was unaware of

.... He apologized in the meeting at his lack of understanding and said

it would be carried out asap.

The meeting today was mostly to lecture us about how we parent at home

and how that can be related to behavior difficulties seen in school.

He is not willing to see any developmental delays or diagnoses and

doesn't believe these should be used to hold my son to a different

standard from the rest of the school. He thinks my son is capable of

respecting the rules and teachers, etc.

There is no flexibility.

Therefore, come the IEP review - I will need to ask for whatever

supports are necessary to help my son get through the course of the

school day.

Can anyone let me know what kinds of accommodations or supports might

be helpful?

It seems to me that the biggest problems they are having with my son is

his need to constantly question directives -- and not just follow

through ...They see this as defiant - which he can be. His problems

w/organization -- unpacking, getting books out in a timely manner,

putting them away.... are problematic, as well.

These issues are most clearly associated with the aspergers but my son

is in a general education classroom setting and they are not willing to

take his diagnoses into account for these things.

While getting him out of this school is something we would consider,

we just moved and this is already a new setting for my son. Moving to

another school -- even a better one -- is going to entail a whole new

transition for my son -- and we all know how aspies do w/transitions...

Not to mention - the new school would be further away meaning he'd have

to take a bus and I would not be able to very involved.

Does anyone have any thoughts or advice to share?

>

> I missed how this meeting was created. Did the priuncipal make the

request

> to speak with you about your son's behavior in writing? I would have

asked

> for it if he made the request verbally--think paper trail.

>

> I would have only agreed to the meeting if the iep team was

there--does your

> son have one? It's not up to your principal to accept or reject a

child's

> diagnosis. There are state and federal rules.

>

> I would be taking notes at the meeting--perhaps bring a tape

recorder. I

> would let him speak. Then, if you hear that he only wants to find

ways to

> punish your son, I would tell the principal to put all his

suggestions in a

> letter to you. Why isn't your spec. ed. team involved in this

meeting? How

> is he allowed to side step them? Btw, did you put your fba request in

> writing?

>

>

> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 1:39 PM, M <rachelfran@...:

>

> >

> >

> > Tomorrow at 8:30 am my husband and I have an appointment with the

> > Principal.

> >

> > He wants to talk about my son's misbehavior -- though NOT in a

special ed

> > context -- he wants to come up with a plan of discipline.

> >

> > As I've already officially requested an FBA and an IEP review --

should I

> > just yes him at this meeting and carry out or not carry out

whatever he

> > decrees depending on whether I think it makes sense? I know enough

not to

> > sign anything.

> >

> > I know that my son's misbehavior is directly related to his

diagnoses of

> > adhd & aspergers but since the school has not yet had a meeting

with me to

> > discuss this new diagnoses - he (the principal) has already told me

that he

> > doesn't recognize these diagnoses.

> >

> > Thanks for your input.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>