Guest guest Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 there is a book called the late talker I have heard is very helpful. also the out of sync child may explain some sensory issues. They are both a must read. > I agree it sounds like hyperlexia. My ds (4.2) is like that. He started > reading and writing before 3 and now does so in Chinese too. He can use all > the common electronics including my iPod to play his shows, listen to music, > etc. But he does not talk or play with his peers, until recently. Roxanne > has some good previous posts and also check > http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?user=ParentsForum > > I haven't found any group just for hyperlexia that is active and local yet. > If you guys are interested we can search together. Please let me know if you > find anything else interesting. > > -- Sent from my mobile device -mommy to Emma, Becca, , , , and baby girl no name (yeah I know, nothing new, does ever pick a name in a timely manner?) July 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 I had these same questions when my daughter was younger. She is 12 now. Many parents and professionals have a hard time figuring out if certain behaviors are still in the normal range kids that are near normal range in behaviors may not be diagnosised until they are older and issues are more obvious. Asperger's Syndrome: Is often caught by the age of 9 because this is when kids start to play more in groups and it is more obvious that our kids are really impaired. Behaviors early may be mistaken for social anxiety. But by 9 their special interests are more obviously boardering on obsessional. Some kids are diagnosised earlier if there are more obvious issues in speech and eye contact that can't be explained away. ADHD: The kids that are diagnosied early are the ones that are very hyper. Kids with ADHD and dyslexia (reading disorder) may not be diangosised until the end of first grade or later. ADHD kids are treated with behavior systems (token systems) and stimulants. But many stimulants increase anxiety. And if the child has AS they often do not work as well as you hope or may increase anxiety. Anxiety needs to be treated before attentional issues. Meltdowns and rages: Are harder to figure out. Some kids when overloaded (tired) meltdown. But they learn eventually how to calm themselves or retreat when tired. They learn coping skills. You see some improvements even if they continue to meltdown. These kids may have anxiety, AS, ADHD or introverted. Other kids what you see when they are overloaded they get more agressive, fighting, arguing. As they get older these behaviors don't get better they often get worse. Instead of retreating when tired or overstimulated they escalate themselves. These kids are harder to diagnosis. They are wired to do things that defeat self calming. Depending on the extent of the rage it still could be anxiety, ADHD or AS or maybe Bipolar or OCD but it clearly is not typical. Usually at the heart of continued meltdowns is that the child can't switch their mindset, they get locked into an idea or very ridgid thinkers. Some of these kids need medication to calm anxiety or mood stabizers. They also need behavior or cognitive therapy. Noone wants to give young children medication. Parents can learn parenting techniques for oppositional kids to make sure they are shaping positive behaviors. If no progress is made and the child is 7, 8, 9 and still causing great distress to themselves and the family, medication may be tried sooner or later. It is hard to diagnosis young children unless the DX is very obvious. You are on the right track to learn what you can. Pam > > I agree it sounds like hyperlexia. My ds (4.2) is like that. He started > > reading and writing before 3 and now does so in Chinese too. He can use all > > the common electronics including my iPod to play his shows, listen to music, > > etc. But he does not talk or play with his peers, until recently. Roxanne > > has some good previous posts and also check > > http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?user=ParentsForum > > > > I haven't found any group just for hyperlexia that is active and local yet. > > If you guys are interested we can search together. Please let me know if you > > find anything else interesting. > > > > > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > -mommy to Emma, Becca, , > , , and baby girl no name (yeah I know, nothing new, does > ever pick a name in a timely manner?) July 2010 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 thanks, it does seem he is a rigid thinker. my older dd with hfa is on mood stabilizers and intuniv. he definitely is not hyper so if he were ever dx adhd it would be the inattentive type maybe b/c of the rigidity and impulsivity. i guess that is where it is hard, he seems to be learning coping strategies but at the same time staying rigid too so sometimes looks like progression and sometimes looks worse. my hfa also had major anxieties like stranger and seperation anxiety that he just doesnt have. his is more in the normal range, meaning it took 2 or 3 times to be dropped off at speech (meaning about 1-2 wks) but then was fine. my older dd was an issue straight through the entire 3 yr old child development class on into 1/2-3/4 of 4k amd she went daily so had more oppurtunity to adapt. I feel like I am back where I was when my hfa was younger. i spent years wanting to dx her myself so i would know what book and what help would work b/c i wanted to avoid meds and thus wanted to avoid doctors dx her. yet i know a bit more now and I know a lot of the behavioral therapies are the same regardless of the dx. But really my most immediate want is to be able to help him with his speech, if there is anything at all I can do, evaluate, treat, or something to help him make better progress. truthfully I am starting to think he will end up with a dx though I am still praying not. I am thinking adhd with some spd or pdd-nos. I was very tempted to go back to school to become a child psychologist (or speech therapist) lol but then dhs student loans came due and I saw how much it actually cost to do that and all interest dissappeared very quickly as I surrender a car payment every month to the dept of ed for the duration of a home mortgage lol. On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 12:52 PM, Pamela <susanonderko@...> wrote: I had these same questions when my daughterwas younger. She is 12 now. Many parents and professionalshave a hard time figuring out if certain behaviorsare still in the normal range kids that are near normal range in behaviors may not be diagnosised until they are older and issues are more obvious. Asperger's Syndrome: Is often caught by the age of 9 becausethis is when kids start to play more in groups and it is more obvious that our kids are really impaired. Behaviorsearly may be mistaken for social anxiety. But by 9 their specialinterests are more obviously boardering on obsessional. Some kidsare diagnosised earlier if there are more obvious issues in speech and eye contact that can't be explained away. ADHD: The kids that are diagnosied early are the ones thatare very hyper. Kids with ADHD and dyslexia (reading disorder)may not be diangosised until the end of first grade or later.ADHD kids are treated with behavior systems (token systems) and stimulants. But many stimulants increase anxiety. And if the child has AS they often do not work as well asyou hope or may increase anxiety. Anxiety needs to be treatedbefore attentional issues.Meltdowns and rages: Are harder to figure out. Some kids when overloaded (tired) meltdown. But they learn eventuallyhow to calm themselves or retreat when tired. They learn copingskills. You see some improvements even if they continue to meltdown. These kids may have anxiety, AS, ADHD or introverted. Other kids what you see when they are overloaded they getmore agressive, fighting, arguing. As they get older thesebehaviors don't get better they often get worse. Insteadof retreating when tired or overstimulated they escalate themselves. These kids are harder to diagnosis. They arewired to do things that defeat self calming. Depending on the extent of the rage it still could be anxiety, ADHD or AS ormaybe Bipolar or OCD but it clearly is not typical. Usually at the heart of continued meltdowns is that the child can't switch their mindset, they get locked into an ideaor very ridgid thinkers. Some of these kids need medication to calm anxiety or mood stabizers. They also need behavior or cognitive therapy. Noone wants to give young children medication. Parentscan learn parenting techniques for oppositional kids to make surethey are shaping positive behaviors. If no progress is made and the child is 7, 8, 9 and still causing great distress to themselves and the family, medication may be tried sooner or later. It is hard to diagnosis young children unless the DX is very obvious. You are on the right track to learnwhat you can. Pam > > I agree it sounds like hyperlexia. My ds (4.2) is like that. He started > > reading and writing before 3 and now does so in Chinese too. He can use all> > the common electronics including my iPod to play his shows, listen to music,> > etc. But he does not talk or play with his peers, until recently. Roxanne > > has some good previous posts and also check> > http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?user=ParentsForum> > > > I haven't found any group just for hyperlexia that is active and local yet.> > If you guys are interested we can search together. Please let me know if you> > find anything else interesting. > >> >> > -- > Sent from my mobile device> > -mommy to Emma, Becca, ,> , , and baby girl no name (yeah I know, nothing new, does> ever pick a name in a timely manner?) July 2010 > -- -mommy to Emma, Becca, , , , and baby girl no name (yeah I know, nothing new, does ever pick a name in a timely manner?) July 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 I think with more knowledge, psychiatrists and other speicalists are able to dx children earlier than they were able to in the past. My son was dx with ADHD in 3rd grade and finally with Aspergers in 6th grade. With younger children is can be more difficult to dx but more and more is learned, the better doctors are at dx. I think it helps to find the dx earlier but even though my son was dx in 6th grade...he has made great strides. My son is high functioning which does mask a lot of problems. He may appear more like a NT child but he has a lot of social issues and sensory issues which lead to fustration and anger. We have made great strides in the area of Aspergers and Autism alhtough we still have a long way to go. jan "In the Midst of Difficulty lies Opportunity" Albert Einstein From: Durocher <funwith4@...> Sent: Mon, May 31, 2010 4:09:33 PMSubject: ( ) Other syndromes? With the talk of hyperlexia on here, which I had never heard of itmade me remember we have had many similiar conversations. I learnedabout dysgraphia from here etc.Well I know I mentioned my son before but was curious about what ageother syndromes are typically dx. Well heck even asp and hfa since Isee it so often on here that kids are being dx at 8, 9, all the way to13ish. I always thought these things were more typically dx before 5so have been worried about my son. But at the same time I read onhere that apd is not dx until later. Or what if it is just adhd whichis dx later. Or is it a 3 year old phase. Has anyone else ended upparanoid about other kids b/c their aspie or hfa was dx so late? Iwant to give him the oppurtunity to outgrow the phase but don't wantto be dx a pdd at 9 like I did with my dd. Especially when ryans lawhere only applies to dx by age 8.My son is 3.5. I don't know what other tests to have done on hishearing if that's it. He's now passing hearing tests and yes Iunderstand when you are at less than 1% it will take time to catch upbut after 2 yrs of therapy I would expect to have made it up to atleast 5% or something. He doesn't talk a lot (he has 4 sisters whodo). But his receptive language is above his age and his expressiveis on target. Only thing I would say is he doesn't always use all hisprepositions and pronouns and uses me instead of I some. Butotherwise he speaks in full paragraphs. Paragraphs of vowels that is.He can make the sounds for b, p, m, f, d, and t but doesn't usuallyin words.Aside from articulation we have noticed some sensory stuff. Thesensitive about his ears (sounds as well as water touching his ears,etc) could be attributed to already having had 2 ear surgeries. Butthat doesn't explain the fear (I mean in some cases a deathly fear)he had/has of those spiky balls, silly string, bounce houses,characters, etcAnd of course his tantrums could be attributed to frustration over hiscommunication issues. But does that really explain the duration andintensity of his tantrums. His "persistance" and his kicking andhitting?Socially I can't decide. He seems to play with other kids if they arethe leader or will follow his sister doing what she does but it ishard to say about on his own b/c he isn't on his own much.I worry about these little things but at the same time his sistersissues showed up between 1 and 2 and his was a good year later. Hissister was so against sociallizing she wouldn't play on a playgroundthat had kids on it at all. And he does come sit with me and suck hisfinger for a break but will also play.This is my 1st boy so can someone tell me if this is how boys are? Isthere something with the hearing I have missed a test for? Or isthere some issue other than hearing that would cause severearticulation delay? Could apd cause just articulation (not otherspeech) issues and how and when do they test for it.I have read 3 books on speech delays recently and can't find theanswers, they all talk about just the typical stuff. I am looking b/cif there is an issue that he needs help with I want the school to dothe testing this summer before school starts again. Or if it ishearing or ??? I want to be able to work on that before he starts 4kin fall 2011On 5/13/10, april_qian <april_qian@...> wrote:> I agree it sounds like hyperlexia. My ds (4.2) is like that. He started> reading and writing before 3 and now does so in Chinese too. He can use all> the common electronics including my iPod to play his shows, listen to music,> etc. But he does not talk or play with his peers, until recently. Roxanne> has some good previous posts and also check> http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?user=ParentsForum>> I haven't found any group just for hyperlexia that is active and local yet.> If you guys are interested we can search together. Please let me know if you> find anything else interesting.>>-- Sent from my mobile device-mommy to Emma, Becca, ,, , and baby girl no name (yeah I know, nothing new, does ever pick a name in a timely manner?) July 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 CONGRATA and well said! From: rushen janice <jrushen@...> Sent: Tue, June 1, 2010 5:15:34 PMSubject: Re: ( ) Other syndromes? I think with more knowledge, psychiatrists and other speicalists are able to dx children earlier than they were able to in the past. My son was dx with ADHD in 3rd grade and finally with Aspergers in 6th grade. With younger children is can be more difficult to dx but more and more is learned, the better doctors are at dx. I think it helps to find the dx earlier but even though my son was dx in 6th grade...he has made great strides. My son is high functioning which does mask a lot of problems. He may appear more like a NT child but he has a lot of social issues and sensory issues which lead to fustration and anger. We have made great strides in the area of Aspergers and Autism alhtough we still have a long way to go. jan "In the Midst of Difficulty lies Opportunity" Albert Einstein From: Durocher <funwith4gmail (DOT) com> Sent: Mon, May 31, 2010 4:09:33 PMSubject: ( ) Other syndromes? With the talk of hyperlexia on here, which I had never heard of itmade me remember we have had many similiar conversations. I learnedabout dysgraphia from here etc.Well I know I mentioned my son before but was curious about what ageother syndromes are typically dx. Well heck even asp and hfa since Isee it so often on here that kids are being dx at 8, 9, all the way to13ish. I always thought these things were more typically dx before 5so have been worried about my son. But at the same time I read onhere that apd is not dx until later. Or what if it is just adhd whichis dx later. Or is it a 3 year old phase. Has anyone else ended upparanoid about other kids b/c their aspie or hfa was dx so late? Iwant to give him the oppurtunity to outgrow the phase but don't wantto be dx a pdd at 9 like I did with my dd. Especially when ryans lawhere only applies to dx by age 8.My son is 3.5. I don't know what other tests to have done on hishearing if that's it. He's now passing hearing tests and yes Iunderstand when you are at less than 1% it will take time to catch upbut after 2 yrs of therapy I would expect to have made it up to atleast 5% or something. He doesn't talk a lot (he has 4 sisters whodo). But his receptive language is above his age and his expressiveis on target. Only thing I would say is he doesn't always use all hisprepositions and pronouns and uses me instead of I some. Butotherwise he speaks in full paragraphs. Paragraphs of vowels that is.He can make the sounds for b, p, m, f, d, and t but doesn't usuallyin words.Aside from articulation we have noticed some sensory stuff. Thesensitive about his ears (sounds as well as water touching his ears,etc) could be attributed to already having had 2 ear surgeries. Butthat doesn't explain the fear (I mean in some cases a deathly fear)he had/has of those spiky balls, silly string, bounce houses,characters, etcAnd of course his tantrums could be attributed to frustration over hiscommunication issues. But does that really explain the duration andintensity of his tantrums. His "persistance" and his kicking andhitting?Socially I can't decide. He seems to play with other kids if they arethe leader or will follow his sister doing what she does but it ishard to say about on his own b/c he isn't on his own much.I worry about these little things but at the same time his sistersissues showed up between 1 and 2 and his was a good year later. Hissister was so against sociallizing she wouldn't play on a playgroundthat had kids on it at all. And he does come sit with me and suck hisfinger for a break but will also play.This is my 1st boy so can someone tell me if this is how boys are? Isthere something with the hearing I have missed a test for? Or isthere some issue other than hearing that would cause severearticulation delay? Could apd cause just articulation (not otherspeech) issues and how and when do they test for it.I have read 3 books on speech delays recently and can't find theanswers, they all talk about just the typical stuff. I am looking b/cif there is an issue that he needs help with I want the school to dothe testing this summer before school starts again. Or if it ishearing or ??? I want to be able to work on that before he starts 4kin fall 2011On 5/13/10, april_qian <april_qian (DOT) com> wrote:> I agree it sounds like hyperlexia. My ds (4.2) is like that. He started> reading and writing before 3 and now does so in Chinese too. He can use all> the common electronics including my iPod to play his shows, listen to music,> etc. But he does not talk or play with his peers, until recently. Roxanne> has some good previous posts and also check> http://www.boards2g o.com/boards/ board.cgi? user=ParentsForu m>> I haven't found any group just for hyperlexia that is active and local yet.> If you guys are interested we can search together. Please let me know if you> find anything else interesting.>>-- Sent from my mobile device-mommy to Emma, Becca, ,, , and baby girl no name (yeah I know, nothing new, does ever pick a name in a timely manner?) July 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 I thought the book by Dr. Stanley Greenspan " Bipolar Pathways in Children " was very difficult to read but presented a different view. And that is the idea that children with very polarized, ridgid views (black and white) need to be helped by their parents to regulate themselves better. And you do this by helping them to express ideas rather than explode, be self absorbed or locked in. He doesn't say enough in the book how to do this. The idea that use of language to express complex emotions can regulate emotions is so interesting. So is the speech issue actual articulation? Or is it that he is shut down, withdrawn? Pam > > > > I agree it sounds like hyperlexia. My ds (4.2) is like that. He started > > > > reading and writing before 3 and now does so in Chinese too. He can use > > all > > > > the common electronics including my iPod to play his shows, listen to > > music, > > > > etc. But he does not talk or play with his peers, until recently. > > Roxanne > > > > has some good previous posts and also check > > > > http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?user=ParentsForum > > > > > > > > I haven't found any group just for hyperlexia that is active and local > > yet. > > > > If you guys are interested we can search together. Please let me know > > if you > > > > find anything else interesting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Sent from my mobile device > > > > > > -mommy to Emma, Becca, , > > > , , and baby girl no name (yeah I know, nothing new, does > > > ever pick a name in a timely manner?) July 2010 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -mommy to Emma, Becca, , > , , and baby girl no name (yeah I know, nothing new, does ever > pick a name in a timely manner?) July 2010 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 It would be nice if that worked. My hfa is also dx bp (or mood disorder-nos depending on which doctor) and she has been ap since birth. Why does that matter? Ap is very into pd typically which means you try to redirect behaviors, not punishing after the fact and using no, instead you model and teach what they should do, not focus on what they shouldn't do. So we have spent years trying to teach and even model, roll play, etc ways that she can handle things differently but she still has major rigidity/mood issues so not sure that always works. But if you are looking for more ideas on implementing it have you read the explosive child? As for my son, he has a severe articulation delay, his articulation is at less than 1%. However he has taken to shutting down too and I am not sure if it is him giving up or another issue. He was so so so patient until 2.5-3 ish, would let you guess a million times what he was trying to say, would point or lead you to things etc. Than the shutting down in tantrum started and a few months later he started going back to signing, sometimes even in place of talking so that kind of makes me think it is possible he is getting so frustrated that he doesn't always want to even try anymore??? On 6/1/10, Pamela <susanonderko@...> wrote: > I thought the book by Dr. Stanley Greenspan " Bipolar Pathways in Children " > was very difficult to read but presented a different > view. And that is the idea that children with very polarized, ridgid > views (black and white) need to be helped by their parents > to regulate themselves better. And you do this by helping them > to express ideas rather than explode, be self absorbed or locked in. > He doesn't say enough in the book how to do this. The idea that > use of language to express complex emotions can regulate > emotions is so interesting. > > So is the speech issue actual articulation? Or is it that > he is shut down, withdrawn? > > Pam > > > >> > > > I agree it sounds like hyperlexia. My ds (4.2) is like that. He >> > > > started >> > > > reading and writing before 3 and now does so in Chinese too. He can >> > > > use >> > all >> > > > the common electronics including my iPod to play his shows, listen >> > > > to >> > music, >> > > > etc. But he does not talk or play with his peers, until recently. >> > Roxanne >> > > > has some good previous posts and also check >> > > > http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?user=ParentsForum >> > > > >> > > > I haven't found any group just for hyperlexia that is active and >> > > > local >> > yet. >> > > > If you guys are interested we can search together. Please let me >> > > > know >> > if you >> > > > find anything else interesting. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Sent from my mobile device >> > > >> > > -mommy to Emma, Becca, , >> > > , , and baby girl no name (yeah I know, nothing new, does >> > > ever pick a name in a timely manner?) July 2010 >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> -mommy to Emma, Becca, , >> , , and baby girl no name (yeah I know, nothing new, does >> ever >> pick a name in a timely manner?) July 2010 >> > > > -- Sent from my mobile device -mommy to Emma, Becca, , , , and baby girl no name (yeah I know, nothing new, does ever pick a name in a timely manner?) July 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 Another idea is to look at the online parent courses from the group Dr. Greenspan started. He has a lot to say about young children and a lot about teaching communication. So many people describe the autism problem as a deficit in being able to relate to others. He breaks it down for parents. I plan on taking the course myself. Otherwise he has a lot written on line to read. http://www.icdl.com/ Pam > > > > I agree it sounds like hyperlexia. My ds (4.2) is like that. He started > > > > reading and writing before 3 and now does so in Chinese too. He can use > > all > > > > the common electronics including my iPod to play his shows, listen to > > music, > > > > etc. But he does not talk or play with his peers, until recently. > > Roxanne > > > > has some good previous posts and also check > > > > http://www.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?user=ParentsForum > > > > > > > > I haven't found any group just for hyperlexia that is active and local > > yet. > > > > If you guys are interested we can search together. Please let me know > > if you > > > > find anything else interesting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Sent from my mobile device > > > > > > -mommy to Emma, Becca, , > > > , , and baby girl no name (yeah I know, nothing new, does > > > ever pick a name in a timely manner?) July 2010 > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -mommy to Emma, Becca, , > , , and baby girl no name (yeah I know, nothing new, does ever > pick a name in a timely manner?) July 2010 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Great resources, Pam, thanks. I'll check out the book and the site. When I saw postings about ASD turning bipolar and having panic disorders in teens I didn't quite see how my quiet and sweet ds would ever be anywhere near that. But it does make sense things may seem overwhelming in their teen years, if they are rigid thinkers and prefer black/white and (esp. with hyperlexia) if everything is clearly written on the surface! And it does sound reasonable/true that if you can verbalize your complex emotions you can deal with them. I think just from my personal experience, if I'm anxious and stresses, it's usually there's something bothering me that I haven't brought into my conscious and processed it. Once I do that I just deal with the underlying problem but don't feel stressed. Verbalizing sort of sends a signal to your body and mind. I've started to see that with my son to some extent. If he has a process to deal with an issue, and he says it, it really helps him. Like he has an issue with loud noises. He used to get real afraid and tense. Now he'd cover his ears, and then say something like " It's too loud, it's hurting my ears. I can cover my ears then I'm not afraid any more. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Whatever label they'll decide on, I think the speech therapy and social groups will help ANYONE, even N/T kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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