Re: Arguing and arguing and arguing and arguing....

[Guest guest]

PattiCount to ten is my only answer. My so is 14 and does the very same thing. You want to scream but you know that it will only make matters worst. It's just on of those things.RegardsSent from my iPhoneOn 28 Nov 2010, at 20:24, PattiAnnB <pabernius@...> wrote:

Hi All:Help! My 8 yo son's habit of arguing with absolutely everything anyone says is starting to drive me completely out of my mind. It seems to be getting exponentially worse, as is my ability to cope with it.I understand that doesn't realize that he's arguing, but I don't know how to teach him that answering back to every statement with "Yes but..." is perceived as argumentative.Here's a simple example. Yesterday we went Christmas shopping. On the way into the mall, I gave a dollar to "Give to the people who are ringing the Salvation Army bell." His response: "But Mom there's only one person ringing the bell."Me: "Oh, okay.": "But Mom, if there's only one person there why did you say

PEOPLE?"Me: ", I made a mistake. I thought there was another person there.": "But Mom, why did you think there was more than one person there?"Me: ", do you by any chance have a gun on you so I can shoot myself in the head and end this conversation before my head explodes?"Okay I didn't say that last line, but I sure wanted to. How do I cope with this? Please you magical wonderful people give me some advice on what I should do! I know he's not being malicious and he doesn't understand that he's arguing. But he has to learn, and I don't know how to teach him.Help!Patti

[Guest guest]

my 15 year old does the same

thing.

It is always Why, and if you give him an answer

that does not seem right he will keep asking.

I can say that is enough son, drop the

conversation and he will not drop it until he has said

his

last words.

No not a teen thing, he has always been that

way

~~~~~~~~~~Theresa

[Guest guest]

I tell my son age 9 that there is no negotiation. And he stops debating me. I alson inforce that I am the adult and he is the child.

From: Theresa S. <houndlover2@...> Sent: Sun, November 28, 2010 5:12:49 PMSubject: Re: ( ) Arguing and arguing and arguing and arguing....

my 15 year old does the same thing.

It is always Why, and if you give him an answer that does not seem right he will keep asking.

I can say that is enough son, drop the conversation and he will not drop it until he has said his

last words.

No not a teen thing, he has always been that way

~~~~~~~~~~Theresa

I

[Guest guest]

Hi Patti,

Been there! My son was the inspiration for my returning to school to become a

special education teacher and more recently a Board Certified Behavior Analyst.

If I only knew then..... I hope I don't come across as preaching because I truly

made every mistake in the book-I would suggest answering his questions within

reason but try not to engage in the back & forth argumentative banter. This was

my biggest mistake and provided my son with the attention he was seeking so in

essence I was reinforcing the behavior of continuing to badger and ask

questions. In combination with this you might try to " differentially reinforce "

more appropriate behavior such as when he stops asking questions or settles for

a brief explanation. Something like " Wow, I am really proud that you accepted

my answer and did not ask me more questions! " The combination of ignoring the

inappropriate behavior and reinforcing more appropriate behavior can be very

effective when the behavior is being maintained by attention.

Hope this helps- Hang in there! My son is 24 and there is light at the end of

the tunnel!

best,

Kim

>

> Hi All:

>

> Help! My 8 yo son's habit of arguing with absolutely everything anyone says

is

> starting to drive me completely out of my mind. It seems to be getting

> exponentially worse, as is my ability to cope with it.

>

> I understand that doesn't realize that he's arguing, but I don't know

> how to teach him that answering back to every statement with " Yes but... " is

> perceived as argumentative.

>

> Here's a simple example. Yesterday we went Christmas shopping. On the way

into

> the mall, I gave a dollar to " Give to the people who are ringing the

> Salvation Army bell. "

>

>

> His response: " But Mom there's only one person ringing the bell. "

>

> Me: " Oh, okay. "

>

> : " But Mom, if there's only one person there why did you say PEOPLE? "

>

> Me: " , I made a mistake. I thought there was another person there. "

>

> : " But Mom, why did you think there was more than one person there? "

>

> Me: " , do you by any chance have a gun on you so I can shoot myself in

> the head and end this conversation before my head explodes? "

>

> Okay I didn't say that last line, but I sure wanted to. How do I cope with

> this? Please you magical wonderful people give me some advice on what I

should

> do! I know he's not being malicious and he doesn't understand that he's

> arguing. But he has to learn, and I don't know how to teach him.

>

> Help!

>

> Patti

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, wow, you gave me a good laugh. I've been there so many times. I don't know what to say, My 6yo dd aspie who is very literal, does the same thing. I try and explain it to her and if she doesn't get it, I will just shake my head and so "Oh I'm sorry" and hopefully she will drop it. I figure this is one battle that is not worth it.-From: PattiAnnB <pabernius@...>Subject: ( ) Arguing and arguing and arguing and arguing.... Date: Sunday, November 28, 2010, 3:24 PM

Hi All:Help! My 8 yo son's habit of arguing with absolutely everything anyone says is starting to drive me completely out of my mind. It seems to be getting exponentially worse, as is my ability to cope with it.I understand that doesn't realize that he's arguing, but I don't know how to teach him that answering back to every statement with "Yes but..." is perceived as argumentative.Here's a simple example. Yesterday we went Christmas shopping. On the way into the mall, I gave a dollar to "Give to the people who are ringing the Salvation Army bell." His response: "But Mom there's only one person ringing the bell."Me: "Oh, okay.": "But Mom, if there's only one person there why did you say

PEOPLE?"Me: ", I made a mistake. I thought there was another person there.": "But Mom, why did you think there was more than one person there?"Me: ", do you by any chance have a gun on you so I can shoot myself in the head and end this conversation before my head explodes?"Okay I didn't say that last line, but I sure wanted to. How do I cope with this? Please you magical wonderful people give me some advice on what I should do! I know he's not being malicious and he doesn't understand that he's arguing. But he has to learn, and I don't know how to teach him.Help!Patti

[Guest guest]

Hi Patti,

I'm sorry but I couldn't help but chuckle a little in reading your post. I know this doesn't help you, but it just sounds all TOO familiar. My son, now 13, was the same way when he was younger. Not that he is much different now, but he has gotten better. I just started saying "you know son, I know you have a lot of questions but Mommy doesn't want to answer any more right now." ...Now, I just tell him "It's enough! or I'm done with this conversation" and that usually works now.

Unless he wants something, then he will try to negotiate until you're blue in the face. I try to handle that by giving him two options to choose from and telling him that's it. For instance, if he asks to go out and it's getting late I'll say "ok, 30 minutes." Then he'll say, "Come on, how about an hour?" I'll say, "30 minutes or nothing." Then he'll usually say, "ok, fine"....That is generaly the end of the discussion then. Doesn't always work, but at least it does most of the time.

Good luck!ne

From: PattiAnnB <pabernius@...>Subject: ( ) Arguing and arguing and arguing and arguing.... Date: Sunday, November 28, 2010, 3:24 PM

Hi All:Help! My 8 yo son's habit of arguing with absolutely everything anyone says is starting to drive me completely out of my mind. It seems to be getting exponentially worse, as is my ability to cope with it.I understand that doesn't realize that he's arguing, but I don't know how to teach him that answering back to every statement with "Yes but..." is perceived as argumentative.Here's a simple example. Yesterday we went Christmas shopping. On the way into the mall, I gave a dollar to "Give to the people who are ringing the Salvation Army bell." His response: "But Mom there's only one person ringing the bell."Me: "Oh, okay.": "But Mom, if there's only one person there why did you say PEOPLE?"Me: ", I made a mistake. I thought there was another person there.": "But Mom, why did you think there was more than

one person there?"Me: ", do you by any chance have a gun on you so I can shoot myself in the head and end this conversation before my head explodes?"Okay I didn't say that last line, but I sure wanted to. How do I cope with this? Please you magical wonderful people give me some advice on what I should do! I know he's not being malicious and he doesn't understand that he's arguing. But he has to learn, and I don't know how to teach him.Help!Patti

[Guest guest]

Sounds like a page out of my day. He's always questioning about whatever he's focusing on. And talking about it, and bringing it up again, even after you've answered every possible question and asked him to stop. Then, giving you 2 minutes peace, then asking another 100 questions about the same thing. Rinse, and repeat.

From: Theresa S. <houndlover2@...>Subject: Re: ( ) Arguing and arguing and arguing and arguing.... Date: Sunday, November 28, 2010, 3:12 PM

my 15 year old does the same thing.

It is always Why, and if you give him an answer that does not seem right he will keep asking.

I can say that is enough son, drop the conversation and he will not drop it until he has said his

last words.

No not a teen thing, he has always been that way

~~~~~~~~~~Theresa

[Guest guest]

Patti

My 6 yo is like this too, although it seems to be a different type of arguing

than the kind of arguing about behavior or chores, or what have you. Does this

seem accurate in your situation?

We seem to have two different types of arguing in our home. The type that every

kid does, and the type that you are describing. We have given it a name in our

home. I call it " badgering " because it is usually so persistent and pushy it is

like the other person (whether me or one of his brothers) is finally backed into

a corner and goes nutty.

I think this type of arguing arises again because of theory of mind issues. My

6yo CANNOT wrap his mind around the fact that his 4yo brother will not play a

game (like Stratego) with carefully calculated strategy, but will play it

willy-nilly and have just as much fun. He cannot fathom that a 4yo would play a

game just for fun, and not be determined to win it. And so he starts the

badgering cycle of " I want you to go first so that you will have a chance to

win, since I have better strategy. Why did you do that? That wasn't a good move.

Your reasons for moving that are not good reasons. Jude, why are you showing me

that piece? " Etc., etc., until the shrieking reaches fever pitch.

He also has a hard time wrapping his mind around when I say things by mistake

like you did, and we have the same kind of go-rounds.

I am thinking that " badgering " is a good image-word, that if developed into a

comic/social story (complete with a badger for the antagonist) that shows how

badgering affects other people and shows how other people have different brains

that do not have a direct line to the person with AS could really be helpful.

Needless to say, I haven't asked my husband to do that yet. He is good at

drawing cartoons, and will do that for me sometimes.

>

> Hi All:

>

> Help! My 8 yo son's habit of arguing with absolutely everything anyone says

is

> starting to drive me completely out of my mind. It seems to be getting

> exponentially worse, as is my ability to cope with it.

>

> I understand that doesn't realize that he's arguing, but I don't know

> how to teach him that answering back to every statement with " Yes but... " is

> perceived as argumentative.

>

> Here's a simple example. Yesterday we went Christmas shopping. On the way

into

> the mall, I gave a dollar to " Give to the people who are ringing the

> Salvation Army bell. "

>

>

> His response: " But Mom there's only one person ringing the bell. "

>

> Me: " Oh, okay. "

>

> : " But Mom, if there's only one person there why did you say PEOPLE? "

>

> Me: " , I made a mistake. I thought there was another person there. "

>

> : " But Mom, why did you think there was more than one person there? "

>

> Me: " , do you by any chance have a gun on you so I can shoot myself in

> the head and end this conversation before my head explodes? "

>

> Okay I didn't say that last line, but I sure wanted to. How do I cope with

> this? Please you magical wonderful people give me some advice on what I

should

> do! I know he's not being malicious and he doesn't understand that he's

> arguing. But he has to learn, and I don't know how to teach him.

>

> Help!

>

> Patti

>

[Guest guest]

Oh my, this sounds just like our home! Our Aspie son is 6. My husband came up

with a solution that is working at the moment. Answering his question, with a

question. For example you could have said, " , why do you think I said

'people?' " If he says " I don't know, " you can reply with, " well that makes two

of us. " For the most part this strategy ends the conversation quickly b/c he

doesn't want to argue with his own answer. It ends the situation without me

raising my voice or resorting to the " enough is enough " line. I'm sure it seems

rude to onlookers, but it has helped my sanity. P.S. My hubby's other idea

(which I haven't resorted to yet) is to get really good earplugs! = )

By the way, I've found this to work with lots of questions such as, " why are you

driving this way to the store? " --- " Why do YOU think I'm driving this way? "

" Why is the sky blue? " --- " Why do YOU think the sky is blue? " Anytime it seems

clear to me that he is starting me in a conversation for the sole sake of

arguing, I've been turning the question back on him. And, it has been working.

Good luck & happy holidays!

--

>

> Hi All:

>

> Help! My 8 yo son's habit of arguing with absolutely everything anyone says

is

> starting to drive me completely out of my mind. It seems to be getting

> exponentially worse, as is my ability to cope with it.

>

> I understand that doesn't realize that he's arguing, but I don't know

> how to teach him that answering back to every statement with " Yes but... " is

> perceived as argumentative.

>

> Here's a simple example. Yesterday we went Christmas shopping. On the way

into

> the mall, I gave a dollar to " Give to the people who are ringing the

> Salvation Army bell. "

>

>

> His response: " But Mom there's only one person ringing the bell. "

>

> Me: " Oh, okay. "

>

> : " But Mom, if there's only one person there why did you say PEOPLE? "

>

> Me: " , I made a mistake. I thought there was another person there. "

>

> : " But Mom, why did you think there was more than one person there? "

>

> Me: " , do you by any chance have a gun on you so I can shoot myself in

> the head and end this conversation before my head explodes? "

>

> Okay I didn't say that last line, but I sure wanted to. How do I cope with

> this? Please you magical wonderful people give me some advice on what I

should

> do! I know he's not being malicious and he doesn't understand that he's

> arguing. But he has to learn, and I don't know how to teach him.

>

> Help!

>

> Patti

>

[Guest guest]

Back when my son was about the same age as your son he would ask endless

questions. Most of the time it would be the same question or something very

close to the original question. It drove us crazy. The school counselor came up

with the solution to limit my son to 2 questions before he had to significantly

change the question. The counselor thought that the reason for the endless

questions was that my son wasn't processing the answer before he was asking his

next question. We enforced the 2 question limit both at home and at school. It

really helped my son stop the endless questioning.

BUT, even nowadays - my son is 15, sometimes our conversation feels like I am

being quizzed. It's not the same or similar questions over and over but I feel

like I'm being grilled on whatever subject we're discussing. When this happens I

simply tell my son that he is quizzing me and to stop the questions. I tell him

that it's okay to have a conversation about the subject but conversation does

not equal all questions from one person.

In response to your scenario from the mall, I would recommend responding

something like - " Yes, you're right there is only one person. Just put the money

into the kettle. " I think Aspies like the confirmation that they are right.

Caroline

>

> Hi All:

>

> Help! My 8 yo son's habit of arguing with absolutely everything anyone says

is

> starting to drive me completely out of my mind. It seems to be getting

> exponentially worse, as is my ability to cope with it.

>

> I understand that doesn't realize that he's arguing, but I don't know

> how to teach him that answering back to every statement with " Yes but... " is

> perceived as argumentative.

>

> Here's a simple example. Yesterday we went Christmas shopping. On the way

into

> the mall, I gave a dollar to " Give to the people who are ringing the

> Salvation Army bell. "

>

>

> His response: " But Mom there's only one person ringing the bell. "

>

> Me: " Oh, okay. "

>

> : " But Mom, if there's only one person there why did you say PEOPLE? "

>

> Me: " , I made a mistake. I thought there was another person there. "

>

> : " But Mom, why did you think there was more than one person there? "

>

> Me: " , do you by any chance have a gun on you so I can shoot myself in

> the head and end this conversation before my head explodes? "

>

> Okay I didn't say that last line, but I sure wanted to. How do I cope with

> this? Please you magical wonderful people give me some advice on what I

should

> do! I know he's not being malicious and he doesn't understand that he's

> arguing. But he has to learn, and I don't know how to teach him.

>

> Help!

>

> Patti

>

[Guest guest]

I sometimes can kissing my daughter on the head and praising how

curious she is and tell her we can talk all about this when

we are in the car. And she sometimes can wait. Other times

if she insists I will ask her what she thinks something means

and often she does understand. Sometimes she keeps asking the same question over

and over, even when I have just answered it.

Sometimes the question is if I think something

is cute and she is trying to engage me into a funny conversation

but in not so funny of a way.

Sometimes with these kids if something is wrong or in error

it triggers anxiety. And they want relief from the anxiety.

So the answer to the question has to focus on even if there is

an error nothing bad will happen. People generally understand

each other.

Pam

>

> Hi All:

>

> Help! My 8 yo son's habit of arguing with absolutely everything anyone says

is

> starting to drive me completely out of my mind. It seems to be getting

> exponentially worse, as is my ability to cope with it.

>

> I understand that doesn't realize that he's arguing, but I don't know

> how to teach him that answering back to every statement with " Yes but... " is

> perceived as argumentative.

>

> Here's a simple example. Yesterday we went Christmas shopping. On the way

into

> the mall, I gave a dollar to " Give to the people who are ringing the

> Salvation Army bell. "

>

>

> His response: " But Mom there's only one person ringing the bell. "

>

> Me: " Oh, okay. "

>

> : " But Mom, if there's only one person there why did you say PEOPLE? "

>

> Me: " , I made a mistake. I thought there was another person there. "

>

> : " But Mom, why did you think there was more than one person there? "

>

> Me: " , do you by any chance have a gun on you so I can shoot myself in

> the head and end this conversation before my head explodes? "

>

> Okay I didn't say that last line, but I sure wanted to. How do I cope with

> this? Please you magical wonderful people give me some advice on what I

should

> do! I know he's not being malicious and he doesn't understand that he's

> arguing. But he has to learn, and I don't know how to teach him.

>

> Help!

>

> Patti

>

[Guest guest]

Pam, Caroline, and --

Those last three answers you mentioned sounded really helpful, and hopefully

they will help us make progress.

I must confess, though, I have resorted to earplugs, especially when all three

boys are going nuts! (Only one is an Aspie, but he can throw the others in to a

major spin.)

Liz

> >

> > Hi All:

> >

> > Help! My 8 yo son's habit of arguing with absolutely everything anyone says

is

> > starting to drive me completely out of my mind. It seems to be getting

> > exponentially worse, as is my ability to cope with it.

> >

> > I understand that doesn't realize that he's arguing, but I don't

know

> > how to teach him that answering back to every statement with " Yes but... " is

> > perceived as argumentative.

> >

> > Here's a simple example. Yesterday we went Christmas shopping. On the way

into

> > the mall, I gave a dollar to " Give to the people who are ringing the

> > Salvation Army bell. "

> >

> >

> > His response: " But Mom there's only one person ringing the bell. "

> >

> > Me: " Oh, okay. "

> >

> > : " But Mom, if there's only one person there why did you say PEOPLE? "

> >

> > Me: " , I made a mistake. I thought there was another person there. "

> >

> > : " But Mom, why did you think there was more than one person there? "

> >

> > Me: " , do you by any chance have a gun on you so I can shoot myself

in

> > the head and end this conversation before my head explodes? "

> >

> > Okay I didn't say that last line, but I sure wanted to. How do I cope with

> > this? Please you magical wonderful people give me some advice on what I

should

> > do! I know he's not being malicious and he doesn't understand that he's

> > arguing. But he has to learn, and I don't know how to teach him.

> >

> > Help!

> >

> > Patti

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Pam, you stated that your dd keeps asking the same question over and over again even though you have answered her. My daughter used to do this also. I read that aspies have a hard time putting together the words that you are saying to understand what has been said. What I did was when she would repeat the same question I would say "What did I just say" It was amazing just by saying this and making her repeat it back stopped her from asking the question over again. Once in a while she would say "I don't know", I would repeat the answer one more time and then ask "What did I say". She would then answer me and the asking would stop. She used to drive me absolutely nuts. When she was 4/5 and in daycare, we lived only 3 minutes away. The whole way home she would ask me a question over and over and over and over again (you get my point, lol). That 3 minutes seemed

like 50 and I ended up yelling at her before we reached the house. She would break down screaming, whining and crying, and I would end up with a headache. This was all before she was dx and now I know better. Sometimes when I even ask her to do something I will ask her "what did i say", if she answers me then she will usually do it without me having to tell her 5 times.- From: <ladle24@...>Subject: ( ) Re: Arguing and arguing and arguing and arguing.... Date: Monday, November 29, 2010, 8:02 PM

Pam, Caroline, and --

Those last three answers you mentioned sounded really helpful, and hopefully they will help us make progress.

I must confess, though, I have resorted to earplugs, especially when all three boys are going nuts! (Only one is an Aspie, but he can throw the others in to a major spin.)

Liz

> >

> > Hi All:

> >

> > Help! My 8 yo son's habit of arguing with absolutely everything anyone says is

> > starting to drive me completely out of my mind. It seems to be getting

> > exponentially worse, as is my ability to cope with it.

> >

> > I understand that doesn't realize that he's arguing, but I don't know

> > how to teach him that answering back to every statement with "Yes but..." is

> > perceived as argumentative.

> >

> > Here's a simple example. Yesterday we went Christmas shopping. On the way into

> > the mall, I gave a dollar to "Give to the people who are ringing the

> > Salvation Army bell."

> >

> >

> > His response: "But Mom there's only one person ringing the bell."

> >

> > Me: "Oh, okay."

> >

> > : "But Mom, if there's only one person there why did you say PEOPLE?"

> >

> > Me: ", I made a mistake. I thought there was another person there."

> >

> > : "But Mom, why did you think there was more than one person there?"

> >

> > Me: ", do you by any chance have a gun on you so I can shoot myself in

> > the head and end this conversation before my head explodes?"

> >

> > Okay I didn't say that last line, but I sure wanted to. How do I cope with

> > this? Please you magical wonderful people give me some advice on what I should

> > do! I know he's not being malicious and he doesn't understand that he's

> > arguing. But he has to learn, and I don't know how to teach him.

> >

> > Help!

> >

> > Patti

> >

>

[Guest guest]

, love the idea. I'm gonna try that.-From: tsnoo1 <tsnoo1@...>Subject: ( ) Re: Arguing and arguing and arguing and arguing.... Date: Sunday, November 28, 2010, 10:45 PM

Oh my, this sounds just like our home! Our Aspie son is 6. My husband came up with a solution that is working at the moment. Answering his question, with a question. For example you could have said, ", why do you think I said 'people?'" If he says "I don't know," you can reply with, "well that makes two of us." For the most part this strategy ends the conversation quickly b/c he doesn't want to argue with his own answer. It ends the situation without me raising my voice or resorting to the "enough is enough" line. I'm sure it seems rude to onlookers, but it has helped my sanity. P.S. My hubby's other idea (which I haven't resorted to yet) is to get really good earplugs! = )

By the way, I've found this to work with lots of questions such as, "why are you driving this way to the store?" --- "Why do YOU think I'm driving this way?" "Why is the sky blue?" --- "Why do YOU think the sky is blue?" Anytime it seems clear to me that he is starting me in a conversation for the sole sake of arguing, I've been turning the question back on him. And, it has been working.

Good luck & happy holidays!

--

>

> Hi All:

>

> Help! My 8 yo son's habit of arguing with absolutely everything anyone says is

> starting to drive me completely out of my mind. It seems to be getting

> exponentially worse, as is my ability to cope with it.

>

> I understand that doesn't realize that he's arguing, but I don't know

> how to teach him that answering back to every statement with "Yes but..." is

> perceived as argumentative.

>

> Here's a simple example. Yesterday we went Christmas shopping. On the way into

> the mall, I gave a dollar to "Give to the people who are ringing the

> Salvation Army bell."

>

>

> His response: "But Mom there's only one person ringing the bell."

>

> Me: "Oh, okay."

>

> : "But Mom, if there's only one person there why did you say PEOPLE?"

>

> Me: ", I made a mistake. I thought there was another person there."

>

> : "But Mom, why did you think there was more than one person there?"

>

> Me: ", do you by any chance have a gun on you so I can shoot myself in

> the head and end this conversation before my head explodes?"

>

> Okay I didn't say that last line, but I sure wanted to. How do I cope with

> this? Please you magical wonderful people give me some advice on what I should

> do! I know he's not being malicious and he doesn't understand that he's

> arguing. But he has to learn, and I don't know how to teach him.

>

> Help!

>

> Patti

>