Re: Speech/language disorder vs. possibly more

February 2, 2010

Hi Melinda,My son, age 7, 1st grade was just dx in January with AS and ADHD. They said his main problems were "attending, working memory, and comprehension." They say when he "attends", not just listening but paying attention, he is able to do the work, but he doesn't always attend. Sometimes it takes us hours to do his homework, sometimes only 20 minutes, it all depends on whether he attends or not. I've tried different approaches but don't know how to get him attending, so some nights we do lots of homework and other nights can't get one piece done. I'm hoping for some help from a doctor or therapist, waiting for appointments. The teacher said send in whatever he gets done. His assignments are for the whole week so I can pick which ones to do depending on how he is that

night.He's also in a special group for reading and writing at school. When they read him a story and ask questions about it, he often asks them to read it again. This is where the problems with working memory (short term memory) and comprehension come in. He reads but has trouble when asked to spell words that don't sound like they are spelled. Last night's word was "they". They also said the teacher will ask the class a question and then is onto the 2nd question, when my son raises his hand and answers the 1st question. They say this is part of the working memory, processing that it takes him longer to figure out the answer.Because of the 3 problems mentioned above, the school psychologist dx him as AS. The ADHD part he wrote in at the last minute, because sometimes he gets out of control at school. I think that's because he's too overwhelmed in his large classes, since it only happens

when he's in the large class. This explanation mostly came from the testing the school psychologist did over several weeks. He said if my son didn't have these problems, he would be in the gifted program.Last week he was great in school. Since his IEP was in place, they started him in a reading/writing special ed class and took him out of the large math class into a special ed math class. Before, he would sit through the entire math class and do nothing or distract the rest of the class, then when the other kids went out for recess, the teacher would have him do all the math he should have done in the last hour. Now he has one other kid in his math class and does great. He is a visual learner so they have him counting in groups of tens, etc using blocks, and he loves it, especially since he's a lego's kid.They have always told me that my son can do the work, it's just getting him to that point of

attending. His teachers do his testing one on one and he aces every test but if he had to read through it himself, he wouldn't answer one question. Maybe your dd is getting overwhelmed with the class size or taking the tests herself. Maybe you can get them to read her the test one on one and see if that makes a difference in her scores.The school OT therapist is also working with my son. They put a large rubber band around his desk legs so he plays with that instead of kicking his desk. They glued different textured materials under his desk which should keep him from playing with things on and in his desk, they gave me a padded seat cushion which helps keep him in his seat instead of standing over his desk, and they have him sit with a rice filled bean bag on his lap to help him feel more waited down so he doesn't feel the need to keep getting up. He usually acts out in the hallway going from class to class

swinging his arms and sometimes hitting someone by accident, so they gave him those squeezy stress balls to play with and it helps him keep his hand to himself.If you can't get better help from the school psychologist, try to have him tested outside the school or if you suggest it to them, they might work with you more. They don't like to look bad. When I sent the teachers forms to fill out for his doctor, they called me and asked (concerned) if I was having him dx again. I said no, this is the doctor's process and they need to have all his info. Let us know how it goes on Thursday. Can you find an advocate in your area? This may also help. You seem to gain more respect with an advocate at your meetings. I'm in PA. Let me know where you are located and I can ask my advocate if there is one in your area.Good luck,Gen From: Hall Melinda <mlndhall@...>Subject: ( ) Speech/language disorder vs. possibly moreAspergers Treatment Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 9:50 AM

Does anyone in the group have any experience with processing issues that go beyond speech/language disorders?

I have an eligibility meeting on Thursday regarding my daughter's testing. She has been in speech since she was 22 months old. Every time I've brought up any issue about the possiblity of her having a processing issue, I keep being told that it's her speech. No one would listen to me that it was a processing issue.

So far, the testing has come back pretty confusing. She has scored pretty much average on everything. The things she has lower scores for do point to processing, according to those who tested her. For her psychological scores, she scored poorly in only 2 areas. One being vocabulary, and the other being short term memory. Which the psychologist said would highly impact her academics. The person who did her educational evaluation had a lot of "on the fence" averages, but did have some lower scores in comprehension and reading.

is currently making D's on almost all her papers. Her spelling is coming back with low scores. She's spelling as she hears it, and not necessarily recalling the "rules" of vowel sounds, etc.

The teacher's scores on 's attention came back fine. However, mine came back high. I hate those things that the parent has to answer because I might not be answering them the way they "see" the questions. So I don't know what this is going to do. I don't think she has ADD or ADHD. I think that the inattention is related to the processing. But the psychologist is concerned that I am seeing things here that is not going on in the classroom. So I feel as if they are going to say that the homelife impacts the issues. When it doesn't necessarily. She does the same things one-on-one with my mom. My mom lives alone (my dad passed away in 2002), and she sees the same things that we see at home with all of us here.

My question to those who have similiar stories, is where do you draw the line between just a speech/language issue vs. a real processing disorder? Even the psychologist said today that he thinks we may get into the meeting on Thursday and they say that it's a severe speech disorder, and them may have to "name" it. I want to get beyond the speech/language disorder label. I don't care if the reason for eligibility is headed under speech/language disorders, but I do want them to acknowledge that is goes beyond the speech and is a processing, thus a separate disorder that is impacting her speech/language to begin with.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. From everything I am hearing, she is able to do the work, but she is bring home D's and F's. (Very few A's or B's.) (She's 3rd-grade.)

Thanks in advance.

-Melinda

February 2, 2010

I've been told numerous times that AS presents with many of the same symptoms as ADHD so a dual diagnosis is not necessary.Regardless, you can medicate the ADHD symptoms as you might if the AS was not there -- though some spectrum kids don't do well with stimulant meds.My son is 8 and has been taking Intuniv for the last several weeks and it's been fantastic. It helped too much with the attention issues so we've just added a low dose of vyvanse and we'll see if that helps.From: Hall Melinda <mlndhall (DOT) com>Subject: ( ) Speech/language disorder vs. possibly moreAspergers TreatmentDate: Tuesday, February 2, 2010, 9:50 AM

Does anyone in the group have any experience with processing issues that go beyond speech/language disorders?

I have an eligibility meeting on Thursday regarding my daughter's testing. She has been in speech since she was 22 months old. Every time I've brought up any issue about the possiblity of her having a processing issue, I keep being told that it's her speech. No one would listen to me that it was a processing issue.

So far, the testing has come back pretty confusing. She has scored pretty much average on everything. The things she has lower scores for do point to processing, according to those who tested her. For her psychological scores, she scored poorly in only 2 areas. One being vocabulary, and the other being short term memory. Which the psychologist said would highly impact her academics. The person who did her educational evaluation had a lot of "on the fence" averages, but did have some lower scores in comprehension and reading.

is currently making D's on almost all her papers. Her spelling is coming back with low scores. She's spelling as she hears it, and not necessarily recalling the "rules" of vowel sounds, etc.

The teacher's scores on 's attention came back fine. However, mine came back high. I hate those things that the parent has to answer because I might not be answering them the way they "see" the questions. So I don't know what this is going to do. I don't think she has ADD or ADHD. I think that the inattention is related to the processing. But the psychologist is concerned that I am seeing things here that is not going on in the classroom. So I feel as if they are going to say that the homelife impacts the issues. When it doesn't necessarily. She does the same things one-on-one with my mom. My mom lives alone (my dad passed away in 2002), and she sees the same things that we see at home with all of us here.

My question to those who have similiar stories, is where do you draw the line between just a speech/language issue vs. a real processing disorder? Even the psychologist said today that he thinks we may get into the meeting on Thursday and they say that it's a severe speech disorder, and them may have to "name" it. I want to get beyond the speech/language disorder label. I don't care if the reason for eligibility is headed under speech/language disorders, but I do want them to acknowledge that is goes beyond the speech and is a processing, thus a separate disorder that is impacting her speech/language to begin with.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. From everything I am hearing, she is able to do the work, but she is bring home D's and F's. (Very few A's or B's.) (She's 3rd-grade.)

Thanks in advance.

-Melinda

February 4, 2010

Our sped lawyer once said, " It's never just a speech issue. " My

youngest ds is pretty much in a similar place (in 4th grade this year.)

You want to note how low these scores are vs. how high others may be.

For instance, if short term memory is in the 10%ile, for instance, you

have a major issue. I would really focus them in on these areas which

affect all of her learning.

One thing to think about is " dyslexia. " This is a tough dx because

school staff know so little about dyslexia and many schools will refuse

to call it dyslexia because they will say it's a " medical " dx. Then if

you see the doc, he will say it's an educational dx. It's very

convenient for them all to schlep it off that way. A wonderful book to

read that will help you decide if this is where the problem is, is

" Overcoming Dyslexia " by Sally Shaywitz. You can google her name too

and she does have some articles online. But her book is really the

best. See if your library can get a copy of it.

I am really in the same place, as I said, with my youngest. I am

e-schooling him now. He can do the work but when he does it, it's like

he has to chop through ice first to get to the answer. So everything

he does takes a huge effort, he doesn't finish in a timely manner and

his work deteriorates over time because he just wears out. I did not

even realize how many aspects of school were causing him problems until

he came home and I got to watch him and guide him. It is worse than I

even thought.

My oldest dd (now 28 yo!) was first dx'd with a " language processing

LD. " This was probably dyslexia. Years back, she had to " fail first "

and meet the " 2 standard deviation " delay before qualifying, which she

finally did by 5th grade. When our ds came along, I asked about

dyslexia when he first was learning to read and they poo-pooed

everything. He was such an obvious candidate for dyslexia. lol. He

never knew which side to start, mixed up all the letters in words,

could not sound anything out. It was not even " on the fence. " But I

didn't know enough back then and frankly, I doubt any of the

professionals had a clue either. He was dx'd with dyslexia in high

school and became a " compensated dyslexic " because he never received

remediation for it. Sadly, after reading Shaywitz's book, I knew more

than everyone at the team meeting about dyslexia. But anyway, in

researching this area for my older ds, I shockingly realized that the

problems my youngest was having fit the early warning signs profile to

a T. So we've been pushing for intervention from the beginning. He

has usually qualified for their RtI programming but it has really just

kept his head above water, which is a good in a way. But as soon as he

would catch up, he'd be dismissed and then start failing again. The

system is not really set up to help kids who are not flat on their

face. Now yours is failing or almost failing, she will eventually get

help. It makes me sick to think at how far a kid has to fall before

they get help, though.

As for " home life " - boy, I just felt like giving up ever answering

those stupid forms next time one of the kids is due for an eval. lol.

The teacher never sees a problem and I do. Then what happens?

Nothing. There is never any help for whatever I note as a major

problem. Is that because they think I am making it up? Or if the

teacher doesn't see it, it doesn't count? Or were they really going to

provide help in the first place? I find those eval's so useless.

Remember that you see your child in different situations than the

teacher does. Also, your dd is more likely to show her frustration

level or tell you that she is struggling vs. doing that at school. So

don't let them excuse anything that way. Her grades are not her

homelife. They can deflect the problem only so long. Let me know how

it goes!!

Roxanna

" The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do

nothing. " E. Burke

( ) Speech/language disorder vs. possibly more

Does anyone in the group have any experience with processing issues

that go beyond speech/language disorders?

I have an eligibility meeting on Thursday regarding my daughter's

testing. She has been in speech since she was 22 months old. Every time

I've brought up any issue about the possiblity of her having a

processing issue, I keep being told that it's her speech. No one would

listen to me that it was a processing issue.

So far, the testing has come back pretty confusing. She has scored

pretty much average on everything. The things she has lower scores for

do point to processing, according to those who tested her. For her

psychological scores, she scored poorly in only 2 areas. One being

vocabulary, and the other being short term memory. Which the

psychologist said would highly impact her academics. The person who did

her educational evaluation had a lot of " on the fence " averages, but

did have some lower scores in comprehension and reading.

is currently making D's on almost all her papers. Her spelling is

coming back with low scores. She's spelling as she hears it, and not

necessarily recalling the " rules " of vowel sounds, etc.

The teacher's scores on 's attention came back fine. However, mine

came back high. I hate those things that the parent has to answer

because I might not be answering them the way they " see " the questions.

So I don't know what this is going to do. I don't think she has ADD or

ADHD. I think that the inattention is related to the processing. But

the psychologist is concerned that I am seeing things here that is not

going on in the classroom. So I feel as if they are going to say that

the homelife impacts the issues. When it doesn't necessarily. She does

the same things one-on-one with my mom. My mom lives alone (my dad

passed away in 2002), and she sees the same things that we see at home

with all of us here.

My question to those who have similiar stories, is where do you draw

the line between just a speech/language issue vs. a real processing

disorder? Even the psychologist said today that he thinks we may get

into the meeting on Thursday and they say that it's a severe speech

disorder, and them may have to " name " it. I want to get beyond the

speech/language disorder label. I don't care if the reason for

eligibility is headed under speech/language disorders, but I do want

them to acknowledge that is goes beyond the speech and is a processing,

thus a separate disorder that is impacting her speech/language to begin

with.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. From everything I am hearing, she

is able to do the work, but she is bring home D's and F's. (Very few

A's or B's.) (She's 3rd-grade.)

Thanks in advance.

-Melinda

February 5, 2010

Glad to hear is doing great! What a relief after all those

years, huh!

Do not count dyslexia out. There are several " types " of dyslexia and

different areas of strengths and weaknesses - kind of like a spectrum,

which we know about. lol. One " sign " that is strong is having a

family member with dyslexia. Writing backwards is not a specific

" sign " of dyslexia. I mean, people with dyslexia can have that problem

but it's not writing backwards - it's not knowing where to start. Many

kids can have that problem when they are very young and first learning

to read and write. Then you have transposing letters and numbers,

which is a big problem, as you know. No matter, though, since they

agreed to categorize her as SLD so that should deal with things. Just

be sure to monitor all areas of delay. Your dd sounds so much like my

youngest ds. He is " aspie on the edges " as I say it.

Sounds like you had a good meeting! Keep pushing them. Two ideas I

have off hand is to point out that the sooner she gets help and catches

on, the less she will need later on as she gets older. Also, if they

balk at the aide or anything else, offer to trial the thing you want

and then decide if it works or doesn't work. We had a kid I attended a

meeting for as an advocate who was really way behind in reading skills.

We could not get them to push for the services he needed to have to

catch up. Finally the director offered to split the deal with us, then

reassess his needs at each quarter. No progress, mean he got more

help, sufficient progress meant he would get the same amount. That was

pretty decent. Don't know if it will work in your case. Oh, another

to keep in mind is having tutoring outside of school hours, if you

could run her to that and if they say she will " miss out " if she leaves

the room. Especially since the sped teacher is not so great. Keep

options in mind in case you have to " bargain. " It is just awful that

they have let her flounder so long now. But my ds's school has done

the same thing. It's no different than years ago when my older kids

were in school. That is frustrating!