Need Advice

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/1/2000 6:00:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

naturalmom@... writes:

<< My 11 year old son came to me and asked me why he has a " bump "

under his nipple. I felt it and it was pea sized and hard.

He says it only hurts when he messes with it and this was the

first time he noticed it.

Where do I go from here? I don't want to go to a medical doctor.

I don't believe much in medical-type cancer treatment if that is

what it is. But if I don't go mainstream, will I be in trouble

for neglect? >>

I think an accurate diagnosis from a qualified physician is in order. You can

go from there to decide which method of treatment to use, if necessary.

The best advice I can offer you as a mother myself is: If your son does have

a tumor, get Dr. s books ASAP.

I wish you strength and confidence in your decisions.

Foggs

[Guest guest]

The first thing is to know what is that bump. And for this reason it is

important that you first visit a doctor to know exactly what your son has.

Many people start to take a treatment for something that they believe they

have. It is better to see a doctor and after he tell you what your son has,

then you can decide in which treatment is better for your son, maybe a

conventional treatment or an alternative one. but do not star a treatment

after you know for sure what your son has.

[Guest guest]

Hello Natural Mom,

What you describe is natural hormal development in

prepubescent/pubescent boys. It will eventual go away. It is nothing to

worry about.

[ ] Need advice

>

> Hi,

> My 11 year old son came to me and asked me why he has a " bump "

> under his nipple. I felt it and it was pea sized and hard.

> He says it only hurts when he messes with it and this was the

> first time he noticed it.

>

> Where do I go from here? I don't want to go to a medical doctor.

> I don't believe much in medical-type cancer treatment if that is

> what it is. But if I don't go mainstream, will I be in trouble

> for neglect?

>

> What are my options for dealing with this " bump " naturally? I

> have a Naturopath who has dealt with a couple of my other kids for

> allergies and eczema and such. Is this a good place to start?

>

> What should I be doing as far as cleansing and diet for him? I

> just really don't know where to begin...

>

> Thanks for anything you can offer.

>

> Blessings,

>

> Kandice

> Stay home with your family and earn income.

> kandyc@...

>

>

>

>

> Learn more about cancer:

> http://home.online.no/~dusan/diseases/cancer/

> http://home.online.no/~dusan/diseases/cancer/faq.htm

> http://www.geocities.com/~mycleanse/

> http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/1158

>

> You are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the

egroups.

[Guest guest]

Do two things: 1, get an assessment from a conventional doc, then

send

a saliva sample to a syncrometer tester.

Leo.

---------------------------

> In a message dated 9/1/2000 6:00:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> naturalmom@e... writes:

>

> << My 11 year old son came to me and asked me why he has a " bump "

> under his nipple. I felt it and it was pea sized and hard.

> He says it only hurts when he messes with it and this was the

> first time he noticed it.

>

> Where do I go from here? I don't want to go to a medical doctor.

> I don't believe much in medical-type cancer treatment if that is

> what it is. But if I don't go mainstream, will I be in trouble

> for neglect? >>

>

> I think an accurate diagnosis from a qualified physician is in

order. You can

> go from there to decide which method of treatment to use, if

necessary.

> The best advice I can offer you as a mother myself is: If your son

does have

> a tumor, get Dr. s books ASAP.

> I wish you strength and confidence in your decisions.

>

> Foggs

[Guest guest]

Hi, Kandice.I do not have an advice to your problem, but can just tell you, that I had the same sort of "bump" under my nipple as you son have now when I was 11-12 years old (I am 56 now!). For about a year then I was closely followed and the bump messured at a local hospital, but slowly it kind of dissolved and as such turned out to be a part of puberty for me. Of course, you have to be alert in this matter, but as my example shows, it does not have to be a threat to his future health.Good luck,IoHi,My 11 year old son came to me and asked me why he has a "bump"under his nipple. I felt it and it was pea sized and hard. He says it only hurts when he messes with it and this was thefirst time he noticed it.Where do I go from here? I don't want to go to a medical doctor. I don't believe much in medical-type cancer treatment if that iswhat it is. But if I don't go mainstream, will I be in troublefor neglect?What are my options for dealing with this "bump" naturally? Ihave a Naturopath who has dealt with a couple of my other kids forallergies and eczema and such. Is this a good place to start?What should I be doing as far as cleansing and diet for him? Ijust really don't know where to begin...Thanks for anything you can offer.Blessings,KandiceStay home with your family and earn income.kandyc@...

[Guest guest]

Hi Kirsten,

I have had PA for only the last few months, but Fibromyalgia since my little

boy was born 8 years ago. Every once in awhile he expresses his worries

about my health, and is also honest enough to admit to me that he feels

ripped off of my presence in his life when " you have to go to bed " . It's

hard for a child to understand why this is happening to a parent, and much

harder for them to learn to live with it. It's also very surprising to see

just how much they do understand after all - but acting out behaviours are

pretty normal for children with parents in poor health.

I am fortunate, because I work in the local mental health centre and I have

friends and co-workers there that I can lean on when I need to. And from

this experience I have learned some valuable stuff. The most important

being that a child needs to see and hear that you understand their feelings.

Also - work with your child to adapt his or her activities so that you can

participate in their lives. This doesn't mean they have to spend all their

time doing things only that work for you. Of course, they need to do other

stuff away from you. But very often when children act out it is because

they are grieving a loss. The other thing that comes to mind is visiting

whatever office offers counselling services to families. Where I live, it

is called Youth and Family Services. Other agencies like Children's

Services are good too - they don't only exist for child protection. Your

doctor may be able to help you to access the services most needed, but often

you can just refer yourself. These offices have not only social workers,

but child psychologists, education consultants, and occupational therapists

who can help you and your child work together toward a life that is mutually

beneficial for both.

Don't ever worry that a 'Mental Health' Service means you or your child will

be labelled mentally ill. A good many people who access these services are

very healthy minded people who recognise there is a situation in their life

that requires some professional assistance.

Hope this helps.

[ ] Need advice

Hi fellow Arthurites!

I need your wisdom. I met a lady last night in an arthritis chat room. She

was diagnosed with RA 1-1/2 years ago. She has two children, both girls.

One is 8 years old the other will be 7 next week. The kids are having a

really rough time coping with their mom's health. Whenever she has a bad

day, the kids don't want to go to school, they think their mom is going to

die. The almost 7 year old has had to go back into training pants and start

potty training all over again. The 8 year old has become aggressive and

constantly worries about her mom thinking her mom is going to die anytime.

I want to help this lady and her family. Her husband has become very

supportive to her. How does she explain to her girls about her disease and

that she's not going to die tomorrow?

Thanks in advance,

Kirsten

Please visit our new web page at:

http://www.wpunj.edu/icip/pa

This past year had moderated a chat on arthritis at

www.about.com on Thursday evenings and hopes to start up doing so again

soon- we will keep you posted! Meanwhile, if anyone would like to start a

weekly chat on egroups, please contact or . Thanks

[Guest guest]

It's hard to explain to young children. The easiest way to get them

to not worry as much about losing their mother is to introduce them

to elderly people with the arthritis. The old expression, " a picture

is worth a thousand words " . If someone else lives to be " so old " in the kids

eyes then Momma might be around for years:) When they get to be teenagers they

might end up resenting her limitations. An ongoing battle. But as the

medications and alternative therapies work and Momma " gets better " from time to

time the kids worries will lessen. PatB

> Hi fellow Arthurites!

>

> I need your wisdom. I met a lady last night in an arthritis chat

room. She

> was diagnosed with RA 1-1/2 years ago. She has two children,

both girls.

> One is 8 years old the other will be 7 next week. The kids are

having a

> really rough time coping with their mom's health. Whenever she has

a bad

> day, the kids don't want to go to school, they think their mom is

going to

> die. The almost 7 year old has had to go back into training pants

and start

> potty training all over again. The 8 year old has become

aggressive and

> constantly worries about her mom thinking her mom is going to die

anytime.

>

> I want to help this lady and her family. Her husband has become

very

> supportive to her. How does she explain to her girls about her

disease and

> that she's not going to die tomorrow?

>

> Thanks in advance,

> Kirsten

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Please take the info that I give you with a grain of salt. I am by no means any type of medical expert, I only know what my doctor tested me for.

There is no official test for PA (as far as I know). My rheum. tested me for RA (seg rate test), gout, lupus, and other immune diseases. Those tests came up negative and affirmed for my doc the diagnosis of PA. He was fairly certain but wanted to rule out other problems.

I have also had x-rays on some joints to rule out breaks or fractures.

Hope this is helpful!

Sinead

>From: " "

>Reply- egroups >" "

>Subject: [ ] Need Advice >Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 16:28:20 -0800 > >After a very long wait, I’m finally getting to see a rheumy in a few weeks. >I’m told that it will be easier for him to make decisions when I see him on >the first visit if I come armed with test results from my GP. My problem is >my GP hasn’t ordered any tests and I don’t want to go all the way to the >rheumy – a whole day’s trip – only to be sent home for the tests and return >again in a month or two. I hurt too much to go through all that. My GP is >the kind of guy who doesn’t think ahead. The good thing is if I tell him I >want to do something, he’ll do it. So I’ve made an appointment to see him >next week. > >What I need from you is… > >What is typical of the kind of tests you’ve had to make the diagnosis and to >follow up on treatment? > >Specifically, for those of you who have major problems with pain and >swelling in finger and foot joints – and a swollen ankle that is nearly >incapacitating – do you normally get x-rays taken of all these joints? Do >you have blood tests too? > >If there is a family history of other types of arthritis – along with the >PA – do you get testing for those types too? And how are they done? > >Other information I can give him verbally – and there is no doubt about my >GP’s diagnosis of the PA. But I just can’t handle the trips back and forth >before someone decides to treat me. I’m desperate. I swear I’m going to >die or something because no one can keep living like this and go on. > >Any information I can get as soon as possible would be greatly >appreciated!!!! > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

See the link on our site regarding blood tests. You can take it by logging into

our eGroup site at:

//Terminology_000975745499/

My recommendation is that if you do not have you tests done BEFORE you see your

RDoc, then reschedule your appointment until you do.

Conradical

[ ] Need Advice

>

> What is typical of the kind of tests you've had to make the diagnosis and to

> follow up on treatment?

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

In my hubbys case, yes he did have x-rays, and blood tests to check for the typical kinds of arthritis which is why it took so long for our gp to find us someone to help - all the blood work was neg. Our rheumy was able to determine the pa from the p on my husbands scalp which was originally dx'd as eczema....

Good Luck

Carol

<heather.watson@...> wrote:

After a very long wait, I’m finally getting to see a rheumy in a few weeks. I’m told that it will be easier for him to make decisions when I see him on the first visit if I come armed with test results from my GP. My problem is my GP hasn’t ordered any tests and I don’t want to go all the way to the rheumy – a whole day’s trip – only to be sent home for the tests and return again in a month or two. I hurt too much to go through all that. My GP is the kind of guy who doesn’t think ahead. The good thing is if I tell him I want to do something, he’ll do it. So I’ve made an appointment to see him next week.

What I need from you is…

What is typical of the kind of tests you’ve had to make the diagnosis and to follow up on treatment?

Specifically, for those of you who have major problems with pain and swelling in finger and foot joints – and a swollen ankle that is nearly incapacitating – do you normally get x-rays taken of all these joints? Do you have blood tests too?

If there is a family history of other types of arthritis – along with the PA – do you get testing for those types too? And how are they done?

Other information I can give him verbally – and there is no doubt about my GP’s diagnosis of the PA. But I just can’t handle the trips back and forth before someone decides to treat me. I’m desperate. I swear I’m going to die or something because no one can keep living like this and go on.

Any information I can get as soon as possible would be greatly appreciated!!!!

[Guest guest]

Hi,

You need more than a total testosterone level tested every 6 months. You'll

get better treatment going to a specialist.

You need a specialist in male hormone therapy. That's someone who treats

hypogonadism as a part of his practice, regardless of their official medical

specialty. Your doctor might want to refer you to an endocrinologist or

urologist, but plenty of them don't treat hypogonadism properly.

To find a doc, click on the " find a doctor " option at:

http://www.tuneupyourt.com/

and/or look in the physician reference database here:

/database

Another way is to call a compounding pharmacy and ask if they know of

doctors in your area. You can try:

Collage Pharmacy

3505 Austin Bluffs Parkway, Suite 101

Colorado Springs, CO 80918

Main Phone: (800) 888-9358 or (719) 262-0022

My guess is your estradiol level has risen high enough to offset the

supplemental testosterone. That's a common problem. It would not be shown

by the simple total testosterone test your doctor orders.

Bruce

>

>

> I was diagnosed with hypogonadism two years ago by a internal

> medicine doctor at the age of 40. My initial blood test revealed a

> testosterone level of 34. Initally I was perscribed a 5mg

> testosterone patch and on my follow up visit had increased to the

> 300's. A MRI was run and no abnormalities were found. My

> perscription was increased to 10mg./day and my testosterone level

> rose to 540. Initally my energy level really increased as well as

> libedo and erection frequency and quility. However, after two years

> of androjel treatments my stamina is decreasing. Other than blood

> test every six months, my doctor hasn't conducted and additional

> testing or physical examinations. Is this standard practice for

> this condition or should I seek the services of a urologist and

> other specialist?

[Guest guest]

Hi,

It is very common the doctor will not give enough hormone to raise the

level to the higher normal level where the benfits can be experienced.

Pharmaceutical reps are the source of information for doctors new to

hormone therapy which usually do not have formal endocrinology training.

The max dosage using hormone pellets, based on over 230 pounds is 20 -

75mg pellets which dissolve under the skin. They typically last 4

months. By doing the math 1500mg divided by 120 days is 12.5mg/day.

This is totally absorbed.

Talking with my doctor he provides both forms of therapy as many do

not want the in office surgical procedure for installing the pellets

under the skin. He says the pellets work better to get the levels up

meaning the patient doesn't feel the benefit as easily with the patches.

His experience is about 45% repeaters on the patches versus 65%

repeaters with the pellets.

ernestnolan

>

>

> I was diagnosed with hypogonadism two years ago by a internal

> medicine doctor at the age of 40. My initial blood test revealed a

> testosterone level of 34. Initally I was perscribed a 5mg

> testosterone patch and on my follow up visit had increased to the

> 300's. A MRI was run and no abnormalities were found. My

> perscription was increased to 10mg./day and my testosterone level

> rose to 540. Initally my energy level really increased as well as

> libedo and erection frequency and quility. However, after two years

> of androjel treatments my stamina is decreasing. Other than blood

> test every six months, my doctor hasn't conducted and additional

> testing or physical examinations. Is this standard practice for

> this condition or should I seek the services of a urologist and

> other specialist?

[Guest guest]

Hi, I am also having this prblem, and my gp has advised me its to do with the

methotrexate

Jo

goldie grandy <goldiegrandy@...> wrote:

Hi, I haven't wrote in quite awhile but I would like to know if anyone

has experience what I'm going through right now.

In August the skin on my big toe cracked and now it has gotten larger and deeper

and I have went to my GP and he has given me Fucidin Cream and 2 different lots

of antibiotics, and nothing is working.

I am currently taking Sulfasalazine, Celebrex and also Methotrexate Injections.

I was just wondering if anyone knows if it could be the Injections causing this

problem.

My GP wants me too get tested for diabetes but I never had this problem until I

started the injections, just wondering if anyone has had this problem before.

[Guest guest]

That's weird because I have the same problem but had it long before

I started taking the MTX and the doctors say it is just part of the

PA.

Now that I'm taking the MTX, it's gotten a lot better.

regards,

sherry z

> Hi, I haven't wrote in quite awhile but I would like to

know if anyone has experience what I'm going through right now.

> In August the skin on my big toe cracked and now it has gotten

larger and deeper and I have went to my GP and he has given me

Fucidin Cream and 2 different lots of antibiotics, and nothing is

working.

> I am currently taking Sulfasalazine, Celebrex and also

Methotrexate Injections.

> I was just wondering if anyone knows if it could be the Injections

causing this problem.

> My GP wants me too get tested for diabetes but I never had this

problem until I started the injections, just wondering if anyone has

had this problem before.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Beets stimulate the gall bladder.

How's yours?

jp

Tina wrote:

I went through something pretty yucky yesterday and wanted to get some

feedback. I purchased some beet and carrot powder (as well as spinach

powder) for travelling purposes where I cannot take my juicer.

[Guest guest]

Not sure. I have had trouble with my gall bladder in the past, but not an

ounce of trouble in the past 8 months since I changed my diet. That would

be a good explanation, though. So, what exactly do the beets do to the gall

bladder? Cause it to empty? I didn't have any gall pain with the attack

yesterday, and I KNOW what that feels like!!!

Tina in the boonies of Kentucky

JP wrote:

Beets stimulate the gall bladder. How's yours?

[Guest guest]

Beets thins the bile and stimulates the gb, provides betaine, but if you take in

too much, and your bile is sluggish, it would cause the

nausea. Gall bladder colic (pain) is the pits. I know because I'm having some

today and plan to do a flush.

jp

You wrote:

> Not sure. I have had trouble with my gall bladder in the past, but not an

ounce of trouble in the past 8 months since I changed my diet. That would be a

good explanation, though. So, what exactly do the beets do to the gall bladder?

Cause it to empty? I didn't have any gall pain with the attack yesterday, and I

KNOW what that feels like!!! Tina in the boonies of Kentucky

>

> JP wrote:

> Beets stimulate the gall bladder. How's yours?

[Guest guest]

Please look into supplementing with iodine for ovarian cysts. There is an

Iodine Group on .

Dr. and others have reported success with iodine treatment

according to his writings.

Some women at _www.breastcancerchoices.org_

(http://www.breastcancerchoices.org) have reported cyclical ovarian pain going

away.

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

Ellen

I would do long deep breathing. Find a yoga teacher to show you the

correct way or maybe look it up on the net if you can learn by

reading how to do it. Also do meditation. There is also a blood

pressure point on both shoulders on the anterior side. It will

invariably hurt when pressed with a reasonable amount of pressure.

It took awhile to get the HBP so it will take awhile to bring it

down.

GB

>

> On top of having cll, autoimmune thyroiditis, and pudendal

neuralgia, I

> now believe that I have high blood pressure. I've had some fairly

high

> readings in the past year, however, I don't take my bp regularly

> because, frankly, it scares me! When I was at the

endocrinologists, the

> # was a perfect 120/80, but I've had higher readings in the past at

> different docs, and after 5-10 minutes, when they take the pressure

> again, it's dropped a lot. Same goes for my pulse rate. All I

need is

> more stress! Does anyone have the main symptom I have, which is a

> sudden strong headache at the back of the head after you get

angry? You

> know, the cliche, blowing your top? Please help.

> Thanks,

> Ellen

>

[Guest guest]

I wanted to second the idea of yeast for your daughter- I am reading

the SCD book right now, " Breaking the Vicious Cycle " , and there was

just a section talking about losing balance and the seizure-like

episodes being related to yeast.

-Sierra

> > Hi Dana,

> > You had asked what my son's stims were. Well, he takes an object...

> any object and twirls it in front of his eyes and makes this weird

> noise with his mouth.

>

>

> This was a visual for my son. I wrote here what he required to

> eliminate those

>

> http://www.danasview.net/issues.htm

>

>

> > All the boys have had trouble w/ eczema as babies.

>

>

> Commonly caused by food intolerances.

>

>

> >>sensory issues/mood swings. She also has spells like absence

> seizures but EEG's have more or less ruled those out. She loses her

> balance frequently and has 'brain pauses' where she loses control of

> her hands and drops whatever she is holding.

>

>

> Try increasing her yeast protocol.

>

> http://www.danasview.net/yeast.htm

>

> Dana

>

[Guest guest]

>

> We are almost ready now to start chelation. My son's blood serum

> copper/zinc came back normal now. He is on Valtrex, nizoral, armour

> thyroid.

>

> Should I use DMSA or ALA to start? My DAN is not supporting me and

> doing it on my own, he ordered a challenge test.

>

> Thoughts are appreciated, I need to start before summer is over. He

> will be six in Oct. and has finally started to gain some weight and

> grow, so I feel he is as ready as he can be now. Still have yeast

> issues, viral.

>

> Thanks so much in advance.

>

[Guest guest]

Comments interspersed.

S S

Re: Need advice

Posted by: " laura19982005 " laura19982005@... laura19982005

Tue Aug 5, 2008 12:18 pm (PDT)

>

> We are almost ready now to start chelation. My son's blood serum

> copper/zinc came back normal now. He is on Valtrex, nizoral, armour

> thyroid.

>

> Should I use DMSA or ALA to start?

*What did his hair elements test show? When was his most recent new mercury

exposure?

My DAN is not supporting me and

> doing it on my own,

*You DON " T need his permission to chelate on your own. DMSA and ALA are

available without a prescription. Many here chelate without a doc because so

many docs do not understand safe chelation protocol.

he ordered a challenge test.

*DON " T allow this, it's not particularly useful and runs a high risk of pushing

more mercury into your son's brain due to the high, single dose of chelator.

>

> Thoughts are appreciated, I need to start before summer is over. He

> will be six in Oct. and has finally started to gain some weight and

> grow, so I feel he is as ready as he can be now. Still have yeast

> issues, viral.

*What have you tried so far to do to deal with yeast and viral issues? Mercury

causes yeast so you'll never really take care of it until you chelate the

mercury out.

>

> Thanks so much in advance.

[Guest guest]

my husbands Medicare part d paid for his

From: nancydu

Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 3:49 PM

low dose naltrexone

Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Need advice

Hi group ... I think this is my first post. I am a typing dyslectic so I am brief . I have RA ,Ibs and some crossover sydrome , which means I have a little bit of a lot of autoimmune diseases. My ANA is high and my inflamatory markers are off the charts and am on Humira. On Mon I have an appt for a phone consultation with Dr Sullivan . Am thinking i should start with 1.5 mgs and work up to 4.5 mgs. How does Dr sullivan write his scripts. Will I have have to do another phone consult to increase or will he write a script for lots 1.5 mgs? I am trying to do this as easily had cheaply as possible . I assume Medicare D will not cover this . Any suggestions are are welcome.

avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 090124-0, 01/24/2009Tested on: 1/24/2009 6:13:39 PMavast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.

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Virus Database (VPS): 090124-0, 01/24/2009Tested on: 1/24/2009 6:43:49 PMavast! - copyright © 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.

[Guest guest]

I have a 4.5 year old boy who is making gains every week. We have been chelating

since February and he is doing well.

If you are seeing gains, then you are doing the right thing obviously.

I would add in ALA as soon as you feel comfortable to start removing mercury

from his brain.

The sooner the better. As kids get older their brain takes longer to heal from

the damage caused by the metals.

TJ

________________________________

From: laura19982005 <laura19982005@...>

Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 6:41:09 AM

Subject: [ ] Need advice

 

We recently started up chelation on my six yr old PDD son. Very high

functioning. However, he lacks in social skills, conversational skills, trouble

with Why, When questions still. Also, extremely shy. Doesn't like me to make

conversation with him, loves TV which I think I have to remove...... .

Anyone have these issues resolved with chelation??. We started very low dose

DMSA. He recently did 7.5 mgs(he is 50 lbs). Can I up it to ten next. We are

doing biomedical now almost 4 yrs. He is on Valtrex, LDN, many, many supps.

What am I missing, I need some encouragement. I think last round, even tho we

stirred yeast, now we have seen some speech gains.

TIA

[Guest guest]

>

> We recently started up chelation on my six yr old PDD son. Very high

functioning. However, he lacks in social skills, conversational skills, trouble

with Why, When questions still. Also, extremely shy. Doesn't like me to make

conversation with him, loves TV which I think I have to remove.......

>

> Anyone have these issues resolved with chelation??.

I'm chelating myself. It is difficult to say if my social skills have

improved... maybe...

> We started very low dose DMSA. He recently did 7.5 mgs(he is 50 lbs). Can I

up it to ten next.

That is slightly higher than the recommended starting point of 1/8 mg/lb. I

would stick with the same dose, especially if you are seeing any side effects.

Add ALA as soon as possible at 1/8 mg/lb.

> We are doing biomedical now almost 4 yrs. He is on Valtrex, LDN, many, many

supps.

>

> What am I missing, I need some encouragement.

Be sure to read through the FAQ of this group, Moria's web pages (start with the

LoveLetters that are linked to from this group's home page and that will take

you to her home page), and Andy Cutler's two books (links section)

J

> I think last round, even tho we stirred yeast, now we have seen some speech

gains.

>

> TIA

>

>