Re: Article: A Radical New Autism Theory

[Guest guest]

Thank you for posting this! It sounds very much like my Aspie son: moved to

tears over music, terrified of suspense in movies, very tender-hearted when

unguarded. I've often said that he seems overwhelmed by " the real world " .

Certainly thought-provoking in terms of how to help them deal with life.

>

>

>

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-11/a-radical-new-autism-t\

heory/full/

>

>

> by Maia Szalavitz

>

> A groundbreaking study suggests people with autism-spectrum disorders such as

Asperger's do not lack empathy—rather they feel others' emotions too intensely

to cope.

[Guest guest]

I completely agree!!!LoriFrom: tdhssp <johnvel@...>Subject: ( ) Article: A Radical New Autism Theory Received: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 12:41 PM

http://www.thedaily beast.com/ blogs-and- stories/2009- 05-11/a-radical- new-autism- theory/full/

by Maia Szalavitz

A groundbreaking study suggests people with autism-spectrum disorders such as Asperger's do not lack empathy—rather they feel others' emotions too intensely to cope.

People with Asperger's syndrome, a high functioning form of autism, are often stereotyped as distant loners or robotic geeks. But what if what looks like coldness to the outside world is in fact a response to being overwhelmed by emotion—an excess of empathy, not a lack of it?

This idea resonates with many people suffering from autism-spectrum disorders and their families. It also jibes with new thinking about the nature of autism called the "intense world" theory. As posited by Henry and Kamila Markram of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne, suggests that the fundamental problem in autism-spectrum disorders is not a social deficiency, but rather an hypersensitivity to experience, which includes an overwhelming fear response.

"I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it."

"There are those who say autistic people don't feel enough," says Kamila Markram. "We're saying exactly the opposite: They feel too much." Virtually all people with ASD report various types of oversensitivity and intense fear. The Markrams argue that social difficulties of those with ASDs stem from trying to cope with a world where someone has turned the volume on all the senses and feelings up past 10. If hearing your parents' voices while sitting in your crib felt like listening to Lou 's Metal Machine Music on acid, you, too, might prefer to curl in a corner and rock.

But of course, this sort of withdrawal and self-soothing behavior—repetitive movements, echoing words or actions and failing to make eye contact—interferes with normal social development. Without the experience other kids get through ordinary social interactions, children on the spectrum never learn to understand subtle signals.

Phil Schwarz, a software developer from Massachusetts, is vice president of the Asperger's Associaton of New England and has a child with the condition.

"I think that it's a stereotype or a misconception that folks on spectrum lack empathy," he says. Schwarz notes that autism is not a unitary condition—"if you've seen one Aspie, you've seen one Aspie," he says, using the colloquial term. But he adds, "I think most people with ASD feel emotional empathy and care about the welfare of others very deeply."

So why do so many people see a lack of empathy as a defining characteristic of ASD? The problem starts with the complexity of empathy itself, which has at least two critical parts: The first is simply the ability to see the world from the perspective of another. The second is more emotional—the ability to imagine what the other is feeling and care about their pain as a result.

The fact that autistic children tend to develop the first part of empathy—which is called "theory of mind"—later than other kids was established in a classic experiment. Children are asked to watch two puppets, Sally and Anne. Sally takes a marble and places it in a basket, then leaves the stage. While she's gone, Anne takes the marble out and puts it in a box. The children are then asked: Where will Sally look first for her marble when she returns?

Normal four year olds know that Sally didn't see Anne move the marble, so they get it right. By 10 or 11, mentally retarded children with a verbal IQ equivalent to three-year-olds also guess correctly. But 80 percent of 10-11 year-old autistic children guess that Sally will look in the box, because they know that that's where the marble is and they don't realize that other people don't share all of their knowledge.

It takes autistic children far longer than others to realize that other people have different experiences and perspectives— and the timing of this development varies greatly. Of course, if you don't realize that others are seeing and feeling different things, you might well act less caring toward them.

But that doesn't mean that once people with ASD do become aware of other people's experience, they don't care or want to connect. Schwarz says that all the autistic adults he knows over the age of 18 have a better sense of what others know than the Sally/Anne test suggests.

Schwarz notes that nonautistic people, too, "are rather lousy at understanding the inner state of minds too different from their own—but the nonautistic majority gets a free pass because if they assume that the other person's mind works like their own, they have a much better chance of being right." Thus, when, for example, a child with Asperger's talks incessantly about his intense interests, he isn't deliberately dominating the conversation so much as simply failing to consider that there may be a difference between his interests and those of his peers.

In terms of the caring aspect of empathy, a lively discussion that would seem to support the Markrams' theory appeared on the Web site for people with ASD called WrongPlanet. net, after a mother wrote in to ask whether her empathetic but socially immature daughter could possibly have Asperger's.

"If anything, I struggle with having too much empathy" one person commented. "If someone else is upset, I am upset. There were times during school when other people were misbehaving, and if the teacher scolded them, I felt like they were scolding me."

Said another, "I am clueless when it comes to reading subtle cues, but I am *very* empathic. I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling, and I think this is actually quite common in AS/autism. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it."

Studies have found that when people are overwhelmed by empathetic feelings, they tend to pull back. When someone else's pain affects you deeply, it can be hard to reach out rather than turn away. For people with ASD, these empathetic feelings might be so intense that they withdraw in a way that appears cold or uncaring.

"These children are really not unemotional, they do want to interact, it's just difficult for them," says Markram, "It's quite sad because these are quite capable people but the world is just too intense, so they have to withdraw."

Maia Szalavitz writes about the intersection between mind, brain and society for publications like Time online, the New York Times, Elle and MSN Health. She is co-author, most recently of Lost Boy, the first memoir by a young man raised in Mormon fundamentalist polygamy, Brent Jeffs. She is senior fellow at Stats.org, a media watchdog organization.

The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Get it Now for Free!

[Guest guest]

From: tdhssp <johnvelshaw (DOT) ca>Subject: ( ) Article: A Radical New Autism Theory Received: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 12:41 PM

http://www.thedaily beast.com/ blogs-and- stories/2009- 05-11/a-radical- new-autism- theory/full/ by Maia Szalavitz A groundbreaking study suggests people with autism-spectrum disorders such as Asperger's do not lack empathy—rather they feel others' emotions too intensely to cope. People with Asperger's syndrome, a high functioning form of autism, are often stereotyped as distant loners or robotic geeks. But what if what looks like coldness to the outside world is in fact a response to being overwhelmed by emotion—an excess of empathy, not a lack of it? This idea resonates with many people suffering from autism-spectrum disorders and their families. It also jibes with new thinking about the nature of autism called the "intense world" theory. As posited by Henry and Kamila Markram

of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne, suggests that the fundamental problem in autism-spectrum disorders is not a social deficiency, but rather an hypersensitivity to experience, which includes an overwhelming fear response. "I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it." "There are those who say autistic people don't feel enough," says Kamila Markram. "We're saying exactly the opposite: They feel too much." Virtually all people with ASD report various types of oversensitivity and intense fear. The Markrams argue that social difficulties of those with ASDs stem from trying to cope with a world where someone has turned the volume on all the senses and feelings up past 10. If hearing your parents' voices while sitting in your crib felt like listening to Lou 's Metal Machine Music on acid, you, too, might prefer to curl in a corner and

rock. But of course, this sort of withdrawal and self-soothing behavior—repetitive movements, echoing words or actions and failing to make eye contact—interferes with normal social development. Without the experience other kids get through ordinary social interactions, children on the spectrum never learn to understand subtle signals. Phil Schwarz, a software developer from Massachusetts, is vice president of the Asperger's Associaton of New England and has a child with the condition. "I think that it's a stereotype or a misconception that folks on spectrum lack empathy," he says. Schwarz notes that autism is not a unitary condition—"if you've seen one Aspie, you've seen one Aspie," he says, using the colloquial term. But he adds, "I think most people with ASD feel emotional empathy and care about the welfare of others very deeply." So why do so many people see a lack of empathy as a defining characteristic of ASD?

The problem starts with the complexity of empathy itself, which has at least two critical parts: The first is simply the ability to see the world from the perspective of another. The second is more emotional—the ability to imagine what the other is feeling and care about their pain as a result. The fact that autistic children tend to develop the first part of empathy—which is called "theory of mind"—later than other kids was established in a classic experiment. Children are asked to watch two puppets, Sally and Anne. Sally takes a marble and places it in a basket, then leaves the stage. While she's gone, Anne takes the marble out and puts it in a box. The children are then asked: Where will Sally look first for her marble when she returns? Normal four year olds know that Sally didn't see Anne move the marble, so they get it right. By 10 or 11, mentally retarded children with a verbal IQ equivalent to three-year-olds also guess

correctly. But 80 percent of 10-11 year-old autistic children guess that Sally will look in the box, because they know that that's where the marble is and they don't realize that other people don't share all of their knowledge. It takes autistic children far longer than others to realize that other people have different experiences and perspectives— and the timing of this development varies greatly. Of course, if you don't realize that others are seeing and feeling different things, you might well act less caring toward them. But that doesn't mean that once people with ASD do become aware of other people's experience, they don't care or want to connect. Schwarz says that all the autistic adults he knows over the age of 18 have a better sense of what others know than the Sally/Anne test suggests. Schwarz notes that nonautistic people, too, "are rather lousy at understanding the inner state of minds too different from their

own—but the nonautistic majority gets a free pass because if they assume that the other person's mind works like their own, they have a much better chance of being right." Thus, when, for example, a child with Asperger's talks incessantly about his intense interests, he isn't deliberately dominating the conversation so much as simply failing to consider that there may be a difference between his interests and those of his peers. In terms of the caring aspect of empathy, a lively discussion that would seem to support the Markrams' theory appeared on the Web site for people with ASD called WrongPlanet. net, after a mother wrote in to ask whether her empathetic but socially immature daughter could possibly have Asperger's. "If anything, I struggle with having too much empathy" one person commented. "If someone else is upset, I am upset. There were times during school when other people were misbehaving, and if the teacher scolded them, I

felt like they were scolding me." Said another, "I am clueless when it comes to reading subtle cues, but I am *very* empathic. I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling, and I think this is actually quite common in AS/autism. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it." Studies have found that when people are overwhelmed by empathetic feelings, they tend to pull back. When someone else's pain affects you deeply, it can be hard to reach out rather than turn away. For people with ASD, these empathetic feelings might be so intense that they withdraw in a way that appears cold or uncaring. "These children are really not unemotional, they do want to interact, it's just difficult for them," says Markram, "It's quite sad because these are quite capable people but the world is just too intense, so they have to withdraw." Maia Szalavitz writes about the intersection between mind, brain and

society for publications like Time online, the New York Times, Elle and MSN Health. She is co-author, most recently of Lost Boy, the first memoir by a young man raised in Mormon fundamentalist polygamy, Brent Jeffs. She is senior fellow at Stats.org, a media watchdog organization.

The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Get it Now for Free!

[Guest guest]

I second that Theory!!!!

From: tdhssp <johnvelshaw (DOT) ca>Subject: ( ) Article: A Radical New Autism Theory Received: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 12:41 PM

http://www.thedaily beast.com/ blogs-and- stories/2009- 05-11/a-radical- new-autism- theory/full/ by Maia Szalavitz A groundbreaking study suggests people with autism-spectrum disorders such as Asperger's do not lack empathy—rather they feel others' emotions too intensely to cope. People with Asperger's syndrome, a high functioning form of autism, are often stereotyped as distant loners or robotic geeks. But what if what looks like coldness to the outside world is in fact a response to being overwhelmed by emotion—an excess of empathy, not a lack of it? This idea resonates with many people suffering from autism-spectrum disorders and their families. It also jibes with new thinking about the nature of autism called the "intense world" theory. As posited by Henry and Kamila Markram

of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne, suggests that the fundamental problem in autism-spectrum disorders is not a social deficiency, but rather an hypersensitivity to experience, which includes an overwhelming fear response. "I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it." "There are those who say autistic people don't feel enough," says Kamila Markram. "We're saying exactly the opposite: They feel too much." Virtually all people with ASD report various types of oversensitivity and intense fear. The Markrams argue that social difficulties of those with ASDs stem from trying to cope with a world where someone has turned the volume on all the senses and feelings up past 10. If hearing your parents' voices while sitting in your crib felt like listening to Lou 's Metal Machine Music on acid, you, too, might prefer to curl in a corner and

rock. But of course, this sort of withdrawal and self-soothing behavior—repetitive movements, echoing words or actions and failing to make eye contact—interferes with normal social development. Without the experience other kids get through ordinary social interactions, children on the spectrum never learn to understand subtle signals. Phil Schwarz, a software developer from Massachusetts, is vice president of the Asperger's Associaton of New England and has a child with the condition. "I think that it's a stereotype or a misconception that folks on spectrum lack empathy," he says. Schwarz notes that autism is not a unitary condition—"if you've seen one Aspie, you've seen one Aspie," he says, using the colloquial term. But he adds, "I think most people with ASD feel emotional empathy and care about the welfare of others very deeply." So why do so many people see a lack of empathy as a defining characteristic of ASD?

The problem starts with the complexity of empathy itself, which has at least two critical parts: The first is simply the ability to see the world from the perspective of another. The second is more emotional—the ability to imagine what the other is feeling and care about their pain as a result. The fact that autistic children tend to develop the first part of empathy—which is called "theory of mind"—later than other kids was established in a classic experiment. Children are asked to watch two puppets, Sally and Anne. Sally takes a marble and places it in a basket, then leaves the stage. While she's gone, Anne takes the marble out and puts it in a box. The children are then asked: Where will Sally look first for her marble when she returns? Normal four year olds know that Sally didn't see Anne move the marble, so they get it right. By 10 or 11, mentally retarded children with a verbal IQ equivalent to three-year-olds also guess

correctly. But 80 percent of 10-11 year-old autistic children guess that Sally will look in the box, because they know that that's where the marble is and they don't realize that other people don't share all of their knowledge. It takes autistic children far longer than others to realize that other people have different experiences and perspectives— and the timing of this development varies greatly. Of course, if you don't realize that others are seeing and feeling different things, you might well act less caring toward them. But that doesn't mean that once people with ASD do become aware of other people's experience, they don't care or want to connect. Schwarz says that all the autistic adults he knows over the age of 18 have a better sense of what others know than the Sally/Anne test suggests. Schwarz notes that nonautistic people, too, "are rather lousy at understanding the inner state of minds too different from their

own—but the nonautistic majority gets a free pass because if they assume that the other person's mind works like their own, they have a much better chance of being right." Thus, when, for example, a child with Asperger's talks incessantly about his intense interests, he isn't deliberately dominating the conversation so much as simply failing to consider that there may be a difference between his interests and those of his peers. In terms of the caring aspect of empathy, a lively discussion that would seem to support the Markrams' theory appeared on the Web site for people with ASD called WrongPlanet. net, after a mother wrote in to ask whether her empathetic but socially immature daughter could possibly have Asperger's. "If anything, I struggle with having too much empathy" one person commented. "If someone else is upset, I am upset. There were times during school when other people were misbehaving, and if the teacher scolded them, I

felt like they were scolding me." Said another, "I am clueless when it comes to reading subtle cues, but I am *very* empathic. I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling, and I think this is actually quite common in AS/autism. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it." Studies have found that when people are overwhelmed by empathetic feelings, they tend to pull back. When someone else's pain affects you deeply, it can be hard to reach out rather than turn away. For people with ASD, these empathetic feelings might be so intense that they withdraw in a way that appears cold or uncaring. "These children are really not unemotional, they do want to interact, it's just difficult for them," says Markram, "It's quite sad because these are quite capable people but the world is just too intense, so they have to withdraw." Maia Szalavitz writes about the intersection between mind, brain and

society for publications like Time online, the New York Times, Elle and MSN Health. She is co-author, most recently of Lost Boy, the first memoir by a young man raised in Mormon fundamentalist polygamy, Brent Jeffs. She is senior fellow at Stats.org, a media watchdog organization.

The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Get it Now for Free!

[Guest guest]

This article is AWESOME!! I have always believed that children who were disabled were special gifts from God. The more research I do on Aspergers,the more I totally agree with this article. I wouldn't trade my daughter for anything. She is her own person,I am learning to enjoy being in her world more and more. Thanks for the posting,on this article. From: tdhssp <johnvel@...>Subject: ( ) Article: A Radical New Autism Theory Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 12:41 PM

http://www.thedaily beast.com/ blogs-and- stories/2009- 05-11/a-radical- new-autism- theory/full/

by Maia Szalavitz

A groundbreaking study suggests people with autism-spectrum disorders such as Asperger's do not lack empathy—rather they feel others' emotions too intensely to cope.

People with Asperger's syndrome, a high functioning form of autism, are often stereotyped as distant loners or robotic geeks. But what if what looks like coldness to the outside world is in fact a response to being overwhelmed by emotion—an excess of empathy, not a lack of it?

This idea resonates with many people suffering from autism-spectrum disorders and their families. It also jibes with new thinking about the nature of autism called the "intense world" theory. As posited by Henry and Kamila Markram of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne, suggests that the fundamental problem in autism-spectrum disorders is not a social deficiency, but rather an hypersensitivity to experience, which includes an overwhelming fear response.

"I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it."

"There are those who say autistic people don't feel enough," says Kamila Markram. "We're saying exactly the opposite: They feel too much." Virtually all people with ASD report various types of oversensitivity and intense fear. The Markrams argue that social difficulties of those with ASDs stem from trying to cope with a world where someone has turned the volume on all the senses and feelings up past 10. If hearing your parents' voices while sitting in your crib felt like listening to Lou 's Metal Machine Music on acid, you, too, might prefer to curl in a corner and rock..

But of course, this sort of withdrawal and self-soothing behavior—repetitive movements, echoing words or actions and failing to make eye contact—interferes with normal social development. Without the experience other kids get through ordinary social interactions, children on the spectrum never learn to understand subtle signals.

Phil Schwarz, a software developer from Massachusetts, is vice president of the Asperger's Associaton of New England and has a child with the condition.

"I think that it's a stereotype or a misconception that folks on spectrum lack empathy," he says. Schwarz notes that autism is not a unitary condition—"if you've seen one Aspie, you've seen one Aspie," he says, using the colloquial term. But he adds, "I think most people with ASD feel emotional empathy and care about the welfare of others very deeply."

So why do so many people see a lack of empathy as a defining characteristic of ASD? The problem starts with the complexity of empathy itself, which has at least two critical parts: The first is simply the ability to see the world from the perspective of another. The second is more emotional—the ability to imagine what the other is feeling and care about their pain as a result.

The fact that autistic children tend to develop the first part of empathy—which is called "theory of mind"—later than other kids was established in a classic experiment. Children are asked to watch two puppets, Sally and Anne. Sally takes a marble and places it in a basket, then leaves the stage. While she's gone, Anne takes the marble out and puts it in a box. The children are then asked: Where will Sally look first for her marble when she returns?

Normal four year olds know that Sally didn't see Anne move the marble, so they get it right. By 10 or 11, mentally retarded children with a verbal IQ equivalent to three-year-olds also guess correctly. But 80 percent of 10-11 year-old autistic children guess that Sally will look in the box, because they know that that's where the marble is and they don't realize that other people don't share all of their knowledge.

It takes autistic children far longer than others to realize that other people have different experiences and perspectives— and the timing of this development varies greatly. Of course, if you don't realize that others are seeing and feeling different things, you might well act less caring toward them.

But that doesn't mean that once people with ASD do become aware of other people's experience, they don't care or want to connect. Schwarz says that all the autistic adults he knows over the age of 18 have a better sense of what others know than the Sally/Anne test suggests.

Schwarz notes that nonautistic people, too, "are rather lousy at understanding the inner state of minds too different from their own—but the nonautistic majority gets a free pass because if they assume that the other person's mind works like their own, they have a much better chance of being right." Thus, when, for example, a child with Asperger's talks incessantly about his intense interests, he isn't deliberately dominating the conversation so much as simply failing to consider that there may be a difference between his interests and those of his peers.

In terms of the caring aspect of empathy, a lively discussion that would seem to support the Markrams' theory appeared on the Web site for people with ASD called WrongPlanet. net, after a mother wrote in to ask whether her empathetic but socially immature daughter could possibly have Asperger's.

"If anything, I struggle with having too much empathy" one person commented. "If someone else is upset, I am upset. There were times during school when other people were misbehaving, and if the teacher scolded them, I felt like they were scolding me."

Said another, "I am clueless when it comes to reading subtle cues, but I am *very* empathic. I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling, and I think this is actually quite common in AS/autism. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it."

Studies have found that when people are overwhelmed by empathetic feelings, they tend to pull back. When someone else's pain affects you deeply, it can be hard to reach out rather than turn away. For people with ASD, these empathetic feelings might be so intense that they withdraw in a way that appears cold or uncaring.

"These children are really not unemotional, they do want to interact, it's just difficult for them," says Markram, "It's quite sad because these are quite capable people but the world is just too intense, so they have to withdraw."

Maia Szalavitz writes about the intersection between mind, brain and society for publications like Time online, the New York Times, Elle and MSN Health. She is co-author, most recently of Lost Boy, the first memoir by a young man raised in Mormon fundamentalist polygamy, Brent Jeffs. She is senior fellow at Stats.org, a media watchdog organization.

[Guest guest]

Roxanna,

I loved the part of your post where you were talking about the teacher calling you son a liar. (First of all...I don't like teachers saying that to kids, but that is another thing all together) you said you son leaves a lot of things out in a story....my son is the exact same way. And, on top of it, he hates when we ask questions....but we have to. LOL. And, see things differently ...that is my son too. And, getting out of whack for minor things rather than the more important things...that is my son too. You really have this all done pat. I mean how to explain it....A lot of times when got in trouble ....he would have to give his side and his view of the situation was so different. He also can't take any type of teasing...even if it just being silly.

jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: Roxanna <MadIdeas@...>Subject: Re: ( ) Article: A Radical New Autism Theory Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 11:16 AM

I think these people are well behind our list. We've "discovered" this theory a long time ago here. I didn't realize it was radical or new! lol. I don't think it is all that simple, though. I think it is a piece but not the whole thing. Sometimes they can feel too much but other times, they don't notice at all or feel too little. Or they don't know what is socially correct/going on to know how to feel or why someone is having a problem. They may take the wrong information from a situation and get upset about things you wouldn't have even thought about or that are unimportant to the big picture. Then you have the problem of identifying ones own internal feelings and acting appropriate to the situation. And also, there is a glitch with appreciating the same things as a typical person would. We had a problem recently, for example. where a

teacher got angry with my ds and called him a liar because he left out important information. But it was so typical of my ds to leave out things because he doesn't know how to figure out what is important information and has problems relaying information as well. He only gives the very basic info and even then, you have to quiz him to get the important things. He doesn't see the point. I will say, "But we didn't know that" and he will reply, "But I knew it." This was such a problem in school - he was the kind=2 0of kid who could point out the details but not be able to tell you the main idea. His POV of a situation is so different from "typical" POV's. Anyway, I think this is a weird story to suggest this is "it" when it encompasses so much more. And then part of me is thinking, "Duh, where have you experts been all these years?" lol. Kind of weird to have it called radical and

new....I guess it's nice that the experts are catching up to us...lol.

Roxanna"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) Article: A Radical New Autism Theory

http://www.thedaily beast.com/ blogs-and- stories/2009- 05-11/a-radical- new-autism- theory/full/ by Maia Szalavitz A groundbreaking study suggests people with autism-spectrum disorders such as Asperger's do not lack empathy—rather they feel others' emotions too intensely to cope. People with Asperger's syndrome, a high functioning form of autism, are often stereotyped as distant loners or robotic geeks. But what if what looks like coldness to the outside world is in fact a response to being overwhelmed by emotion—an excess of empathy, not a lack of it? This idea resonates with many people suffering from autism-spectrum disorders and their families. It also jibes with new thinking about the nature of autism called the "intense world" theory. As posited by Henry and Kamila Markram

of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne, suggests that the fundamental problem in autism-spectrum disorders is not a social deficiency, but rather an hypersensitivity to experience, which includes an overwhelming fear response. "I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it." "There are those who say autistic people don't feel enough," says Kamila Markram. "We're saying exac tly the opposite: They feel too much." Virtually all people with ASD report various types of oversensitivity and intense fear. The Markrams argue that social difficulties of those with ASDs stem from trying to cope with a world where someone has turned the volume on all the senses and feelings up past 10. If hearing your parents' voices while sitting in your crib felt like listening to Lou 's Metal Machine Music on acid, you, too, might prefer to curl in a corner and

rock. But of course, this sort of withdrawal and self-soothing behavior—repetitive movements, echoing words or actions and failing to make eye contact—interferes with normal social development. Without the experience other kids get through ordinary social interactions, children on the spectrum never learn to understand subtle signals. Phil Schwarz, a software developer from Massachusetts, is vice president of the Asperger's Associaton of New England and has a child with the condition. "I think that it's a stereotype or a misconception that folks on spectrum lack empathy," he says. Schwarz notes that autism is not a unitary condition—"if you've seen one Aspie, you've seen one Aspie," he says, using the colloquial term. But he adds, "I think most people with ASD feel emotional empathy and care about the welfare of others very deeply." So why do so many people see a lack of empathy as a defining characteristic of ASD?

The problem starts with the complexity of empathy itself,20which has at least two critical parts: The first is simply the ability to see the world from the perspective of another. The second is more emotional—the ability to imagine what the other is feeling and care about their pain as a result. The fact that autistic children tend to develop the first part of empathy—which is called "theory of mind"—later than other kids was established in a classic experiment. Children are asked to watch two puppets, Sally and Anne. Sally takes a marble and places it in a basket, then leaves the stage. While she's gone, Anne takes the marble out and puts it in a box. The children are then asked: Where will Sally look first for her marble when she returns? Normal four year olds know that Sally didn't see Anne move the marble, so they get it right. By 10 or 11, mentally retarded children with a verbal IQ equivalent to three-year-olds also guess

correctly. But 80 percent of 10-11 year-old autistic children guess that Sally will look in the box, because they know that that's where the marble is and they don't realize that other people don't share all of their knowledge. It takes autistic children far longer than others to realize that other people have different experiences and perspectives— and the timing of this development varies greatly. Of course, if you don't realize that others are seeing and feeling different things, you might well act less caring toward them. But that doesn't mea n that once people with ASD do become aware of other people's experience, they don't care or want to connect. Schwarz says that all the autistic adults he knows over the age of 18 have a better sense of what others know than the Sally/Anne test suggests. Schwarz notes that nonautistic people, too, "are rather lousy at understanding the inner state of minds too different from their

own—but the nonautistic majority gets a free pass because if they assume that the other person's mind works like their own, they have a much better chance of being right." Thus, when, for example, a child with Asperger's talks incessantly about his intense interests, he isn't deliberately dominating the conversation so much as simply failing to consider that there may be a difference between his interests and those of his peers. In terms of the caring aspect of empathy, a lively discussion that would seem to support the Markrams' theory appeared on the Web site for people with ASD called WrongPlanet. net, after a mother wrote in to ask whether her empathetic but socially immature daughter could possibly have Asperger's. "If anything, I struggle with having too much empathy" one person commented. "If someone else is upset, I am upset. There were times during school when other people were misbehaving, and if the teacher scolded them, I

felt like they were scolding me." Said another, "I am clueless when it comes to reading subtle cues, but I am *very* empathic. I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling, and I think this is actually quite common in AS/autism. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it." Studies have found that when people are overwhelmed by empathetic feelings, they tend to pull back. When someone else's pain affects you deeply, it can be hard to reach out rather than turn away. For people with ASD, these empathetic feelings might be so intense that they withdraw in a way that appears cold or uncaring. "These children are really not unemotional, they do want to interact, it's just difficult for them," says Markram, "It's quite sad because these are quite capable people but the world is just too intense, so they have to withdraw." Maia Szalavitz writes about the intersection between mind, brain and

society for publications like Time online, the New York Times, Elle and MSN Health. She is co-author, most recently of Lost Boy, the first memoir by a young man raised in Mormon fundamentalist polygamy, Brent Jeffs. She is senior fellow at Stats.org, a media watchdog organization.

Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-11/a-radical-new-autism-t\

heory/full/

>

>

> by Maia Szalavitz

>

> A groundbreaking study suggests people with autism-spectrum

> disorders such as Asperger's do not lack empathy—rather they feel

> others' emotions too intensely to cope.

>

I concur.

I will read the article tomorrow but right now I want to say that I have been

trying to tell " the experts " that I really do feel overwhelming empathy, knowing

how people must feel although I have not been in their situation, ever since I

was a child. Especially I believe I understand a child's point of view and

feelings in a way their parents seem incapable of understanding, even though I

am over 35.

I only learned about Asperger's syndrome last year and felt surprised that

someone else did understand what I was going through. I was frustrated that

" experts " tried to dissuade me from saying " I have Asperger's " just because

_they_ were not certain I did (Who cares what they think; They cannot change who

I am by their decisions). I felt cheated of something because I was already an

adult and they would not diagnose me. I felt cheated because I never had any of

the seemingly important developmental therapy as a child. But all of that did

not matter. It did still matter that I was not wrong, and I needed to learn

self-confidence.

I realized gradually that my insight was far more sensitive than theirs even

though I felt like a child most of the time. I knew more than the experts did

about myself, and in fact about other people especially after meeting them. I

felt like a 'super genius' who looked stupid to the " experts " ('super' meaning

over-the-top which is why it turns dysfunctional).

I can't tell you how many times I felt frustrated because someone insisted that

I could not understand how they felt; Yet in time they unknowingly showed me

that I was correct. Ultimately I came to believe the reason I feel hurt is

because I know more than they know about their pain, why they deny it, why they

reinforce their pain, and that I cannot help ease it because they do not want me

to. And then there were the more difficult situations where I tried to help

another parent understand their child so naturally they hated me because it was

not my place. Then when I turned to try to help the child it could get even

worse...

Well that's my bit-in-the-bucket for the night (heh, I just now made up that

phrase, pretty cool). Good night, or good day, depending on time/place. Some

say I talk too much to say something simple but speed readers beware; you've

probably missed many important points. I waste no words and say nothing for no

reason

[Guest guest]

I was really upset about the teacher saying that to him too. It caused a really awful situation for my ds as it hurt his feelings so deeply. My ds always hated getting quizzed by us too but yes, if we don't ask, we won't know what is going on!! It's automatic now for me to think through what he is saying and ask the important questions for information he hasn't felt important enough to share. It didn't occur to me that a person would view this as lying, though! But I guess so. We have always just known this is the way he is and learned to question if we want to know "the rest of the story." lol. But now that he is an adult, he needs to be really careful about this as I can see this kind of situation being repeated for him, sadly. I talked about the situation with him and we had a good talk about it. Conversation is not his strong suit! So I was doubly surprised and impressed that we had one, lol. A meaningful one at that. lol. But I was able to say, "What do you think that looks like to other people?" and he was like, "Well, ok...yeah..." I wish we could have done this years ago but of course, he wasn't there (here) yet. Better late than never, I guess. lol

Does your ds see problem situations by blaming everyone but himself? This is how my older ds views situations. If somethin

g goes wrong, he never thinks about what he did to cause the problem. It is ALWAYS everyone else's fault. He sometimes does this just to joke me now so I think he sees the point in the last year or so, but his natural inclination is always, "Look what you did to make me do that!" Even when he does something that isn't nice, like pushes his brother, it's because brother is in the way, not because my older ds is being rude and pushy. Brother forces him to behave that way. lol. I've gotten used to dealing with that one as well.

Things going ok with the school stuff so far?

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) Article: A Radical New Autism Theory

http://www.thedaily beast.com/ blogs-and- stories/2009- 05-11/a-radical- new-autism- theory/full/

by Maia Szalavitz

A groundbreaking study suggests people with autism-spectrum disorders such as Asperger's do not lack empathy—rather they feel others' emotions too intensely to cope.

People with Asperger's syndrome, a high functioning form of autism, are often stereotyped as distant loners or robotic geeks. But what if what looks like coldness to the outside world is in fact a response to being overwhelmed by emotion—an excess of empathy, not a lack of it?

This idea resonates with many people suffering from autism-spectrum disorders and their families. It also jibes with new thinking about the nature of autism called the "intense world" theory. As posited by Henry and Kamila Markram

of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne, suggests that the fundamental problem in autism-spectrum disorders is not a social deficiency, but rather an hypersensitivity to experience, which includes an overwhelm

ing fear response.

"I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it."

"There are those who say autistic people don't feel enough," says Kamila Markram. "We're saying exac tly the opposite: They feel too much." Virtually all people with ASD report various types of oversensitivity and intense fear. The Markrams argue that social difficulties of those with ASDs stem from trying to cope with a world where someone has turned the volume on all the senses and feelings up past 10. If hearing your parents' voices while sitting in your crib felt like listening to Lou 's Metal Machine Music on acid, you, too, might prefer to curl in a corner and

rock.

But of course, this sort of withdrawal and self-soothing behavior—repetitive movements, echoing words or actions and failing to make eye contact—interferes with normal social development. Without the experience other kids get through ordinary social interactions, children on the spectrum never learn to understand subtle signals.

Phil Schwarz, a software developer from Massachusetts, is vice president of the Asperger's Associaton of New England and has a child with the condition.

"I think that it's a stereotype or a misconception that folks on spectrum lack empathy," he says. Schwarz notes that autism is not a unitary condition—"if you've seen one Aspie, you've seen one Aspie," he says, using the colloquial term. But he adds, "I20think most people with ASD feel emotional empathy and care about the welfare of others very deeply."

So why do so many people see a lack of empathy as a defining characteristic of ASD?

The problem starts with the complexity of empathy itself,20which has at least two critical parts: The first is simply the ability to see the world from the perspective of another. The second is more emotional—the ability to imagine what the other is feeling and care about their pain as a result.

The fact that autistic children tend to develop the first part of empathy—which is called "theory of mind"—later than other kids was established in a classic experiment. Children are asked to watch two puppets, Sally and Anne. Sally takes a marble and places it in a basket, then leaves the stage. While she's gone, Anne takes the marble out and puts it in a box. The children are then asked: Where will Sally look first for her marble when she returns?

Normal four year olds know that Sally didn't see Anne move the marble, so they get it right. By 10 or 11, mentally retarded children with a verbal IQ equivalent to three-year-olds also guess

correctly. But 80 percent of 10-11 year-old autistic children guess that Sally will look in the box, because they know that that's where the marble is and they don't realize that other people don't share all of their knowledge.

It takes autistic children far longer than others to realize that other people have different ex

periences and perspectives— and the timing of this development varies greatly. Of course, if you don't realize that others are seeing and feeling different things, you might well act less caring toward them.

But that doesn't mea n that once people with ASD do become aware of other people's experience, they don't care or want to connect. Schwarz says that all the autistic adults he knows over the age of 18 have a better sense of what others know than the Sally/Anne test suggests.

Schwarz notes that nonautistic people, too, "are rather lousy at understanding the inner state of minds too different from their

own—but the nonautistic majority gets a free pass because if they assume that the other person's mind works like their own, they have a much better chance of being right." Thus, when, for example, a child with Asperger's talks incessantly about his intense interests, he isn't deliberately dominating the conversation so much as simply failing to consider that there may be a difference between his interests and those of his peers.

In terms of the caring aspect of empathy, a lively discussion that would seem to support the Markrams' theory appeared on the Web site for people with ASD called WrongPlanet. net, after a mother wrote in to ask whether her empathetic but socially immature daughter could possibly have Asperger's.

"If anything, I struggle with having too much empathy" one person commented. "If someone else is upset, I am upset. There were times du

ring school when other people were misbehaving, and if the teacher scolded them, I

felt like they were scolding me."

Said another, "I am clueless when it comes to reading subtle cues, but I am *very* empathic. I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling, and I think this is actually quite common in AS/autism. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it."

Studies have found that when people are overwhelmed by empathetic feelings, they tend to pull back. When someone else's pain affects you deeply, it can be hard to reach out rather than turn away. For people with ASD, these empathetic feelings might be so intense that they withdraw in a way that appears cold or uncaring.

"These children are really not unemotional, they do want to interact, it's just difficult for them," says Markram, "It's quite sad because these are quite capable people but the world is just too intense, so they have to withdraw."

Maia Szalavitz writes about the intersection between mind, brain and

society for publications like Time online, the New York Times, Elle and MSN Health. She is co-author, most recently of Lost Boy, the first memoir by a young man raised in Mormon fundamentalist polygamy, Brent Jeffs. She is senior fellow at Stats.org, a media watchdog organization.

Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School

[Guest guest]

Our son who is described as Aspergers-like is the most empathtic individual who

comes to mind. Kinda of ironic when people with an ASD are labeled by many as

'cold and unfeeling'. My son will take great pains to remove a bug that has

gotten into the house alive and place in outdoors!

We lost our daughter suddenly to a sudden cardiac event in 2006 and he is very,

very stricken by her loss and talks of his sister often.

> >

> >

> >

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-11/a-radical-new-autism-t\

heory/full/

> >

> >

> > by Maia Szalavitz

> >

> > A groundbreaking study suggests people with autism-spectrum

> > disorders such as Asperger's do not lack empathy—rather they feel

> > others' emotions too intensely to cope.

> >

>

> I concur.

>

> I will read the article tomorrow but right now I want to say that I have been

trying to tell " the experts " that I really do feel overwhelming empathy, knowing

how people must feel although I have not been in their situation, ever since I

was a child. Especially I believe I understand a child's point of view and

feelings in a way their parents seem incapable of understanding, even though I

am over 35.

>

> I only learned about Asperger's syndrome last year and felt surprised that

someone else did understand what I was going through. I was frustrated that

" experts " tried to dissuade me from saying " I have Asperger's " just because

_they_ were not certain I did (Who cares what they think; They cannot change who

I am by their decisions). I felt cheated of something because I was already an

adult and they would not diagnose me. I felt cheated because I never had any of

the seemingly important developmental therapy as a child. But all of that did

not matter. It did still matter that I was not wrong, and I needed to learn

self-confidence.

>

> I realized gradually that my insight was far more sensitive than theirs even

though I felt like a child most of the time. I knew more than the experts did

about myself, and in fact about other people especially after meeting them. I

felt like a 'super genius' who looked stupid to the " experts " ('super' meaning

over-the-top which is why it turns dysfunctional).

>

> I can't tell you how many times I felt frustrated because someone insisted

that I could not understand how they felt; Yet in time they unknowingly showed

me that I was correct. Ultimately I came to believe the reason I feel hurt is

because I know more than they know about their pain, why they deny it, why they

reinforce their pain, and that I cannot help ease it because they do not want me

to. And then there were the more difficult situations where I tried to help

another parent understand their child so naturally they hated me because it was

not my place. Then when I turned to try to help the child it could get even

worse...

>

> Well that's my bit-in-the-bucket for the night (heh, I just now made up that

phrase, pretty cool). Good night, or good day, depending on time/place. Some

say I talk too much to say something simple but speed readers beware; you've

probably missed many important points. I waste no words and say nothing for no

reason

>

[Guest guest]

It is so funny...my son would blame everyone but himself....LOL...if he was playing xbox and I walked in and asked him something and he missed his shot or whatever..he would say...see what you made me me....you made me miss. Ha Ha! It is funny how our kids are so much a like.

I am nervous about school. I brought up the fact he is missing 15 to 25 min. each day in order to ride the smaller bus. So, they came up with this plan...he will stay until the end of the day...and then he will work on his homework with a teacher assistant for 30 min. and then a monitor or someone will walk his across the way to the Intermediate School where he will catch the smaller bus he rode last year at 3:00. He will arrive home at 3:30 the same time as last year....his friends will arrive home around 2:55 ...about 30 min. ahead of him...but hopefully he has gotten a lot of his homework done....and we won't have to battle at home.

My biggests worry is this not getting it...the social scene...getting in touble and gving his view that may be taken as a lie and lastly...the fact that he has no interest other than Xbox....I keep hearing more and more stories about kids dropping out of college...staying at home, not working, etc. etc. And, then of course I have eveyrone telling me to stop worry and let him do more for himself. It gets all confusing. And, depressing.

Jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: Roxanna <MadIdeasaol (DOT) com>Subject: Re: ( ) Article: A Radical New Autism Theory Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 11:16 AM

I think these people are well behind our list. We've "discovered" this theory a long time ago here. I didn't realize it was radical or new! lol. I don't think it is all that simple, though. I think it is a piece but not the whole thing. Sometimes they can feel too much but other times, they don't notice at all or feel too little. Or they don't know what is socially correct/going on to know how to feel or why someone is having a problem. They may take the wrong information from a situation and get upset about things you wouldn't have even thought about or that are unimportant to the big picture. Then you have the problem of identifying ones own internal feelings and acting appropriate to the situation. And also, there is a glitch with appreciating the same things as a typical person would. We had a problem recently, for example. where a

teacher got20angry with my ds and called him a liar because he left out important information. But it was so typical of my ds to leave out things because he doesn't know how to figure out what is important information and has problems relaying information as well. He only gives the very basic info and even then, you have to quiz him to get the important things. He doesn't see the point. I will say, "But we didn't know that" and he will reply, "But I knew it." This was such a problem in school - he was the kind=2 0of kid who could point out the details but not be able to tell you the main idea. His POV of a situation is so different from "typical" POV's. Anyway, I think this is a weird story to suggest this is "it" when it encompasses so much more. And then part of me is thinking, "Duh, where have you experts been all these years?" lol. Kind of weird to have it called radical and

new....I guess it's nice that the experts are catching up to us...lol.

Roxanna"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) Article: A Radical New Autism Theory

http://www.thedaily beast.com/ blogs-and- stories/2009- 05-11/a-radical- new-autism- theory/full/ by Maia Szalavitz A groundbreaking study suggests people with autism-spectrum disorders such as Asperger's do not lack empathy—rather they feel others' emotions too intensely to cope. People with Asperger's syndrome, a high functioning form of autism, are often stereotyped as distant loners or robotic geeks. But what if what looks like coldness to the outside world is in fact a response to being overwhelmed by emotion—an excess of empathy, not a lack of it? This idea resonates with many people suffering from autism-spectrum disorders and their families. It also jibes with new thinking about the nature of autism called the "intense world" theory. As posited by Henry and Kamila Markram

of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne, suggests that the fundamental problem in autism-spectrum disorders is not a social deficiency, but rather an hypersensitivity to experience, which includes an overwhelm ing fear response. "I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it." "There are those who say autistic people don't feel enough," says Kamila Markram. "We're saying exac tly the opposite: They feel too much." Virtually all people with ASD report various types of oversensitivity and intense fear. The Markrams argue that social difficulties of those with ASDs stem from trying to cope with a world where someone has turned the volume on all the senses and feelings up past 10. If hearing your parents' voices while sitting in your crib felt like listening to Lou 's Metal Machine Music on acid, you, too, might prefer to curl in a corner and

rock. But of course, this sort of withdrawal and self-soothing behavior—repetitive movements, echoing words or actions and failing to make eye contact—interferes with normal social development. Without the experience other kids get through ordinary social interactions, children on the spectrum never learn to understand subtle signals. Phil Schwarz, a software developer from Massachusetts, is vice president of the Asperger's Associaton of New England and has a child with the condition. "I think that it's a stereotype or a misconception that folks on spectrum lack empathy," he says. Schwarz notes that autism is not a unitary condition—"if you've seen one Aspie, you've seen one Aspie," he says, using the colloquial term. But he adds, "I20think most people with ASD feel emotional empathy and care about the welfare of others very deeply." So why do so many people see a lack of empathy as a defining characteristic of ASD?

The problem starts with the complexity of empathy itself,20which has at least two critical parts: The first is simply the ability to see the world from the perspective of another. The second is more emotional—the ability to imagine what the other is feeling and care about their pain as a result. The fact that autistic children tend to develop the first part of empathy—which is called "theory of mind"—later than other kids was established in a classic experiment. Children are asked to watch two puppets, Sally and Anne. Sally takes a marble and places it in a basket, then leaves the stage. While she's gone, Anne takes the marble out and puts it in a box. The children are then asked: Where will Sally look first for her marble when she returns? Normal four year olds know that Sally didn't see Anne move the marble, so they get it right. By 10 or 11, mentally retarded children with a verbal IQ equivalent to three-year-olds also guess

correctly. But 80 percent of 10-11 year-old autistic children guess that Sally will look in the box, because they know that that's where the marble is and they don't realize that other people don't share all of their knowledge. It takes autistic children far longer than others to realize that other people have different ex periences and perspectives— and the timing of this development varies greatly. Of course, if you don't realize that others are seeing and feeling different things, you might well act less caring toward them. But that doesn't mea n that once people with ASD do become aware of other people's experience, they don't care or want to connect. Schwarz says that all the autistic adults he knows over the age of 18 have a better sense of what others know than the Sally/Anne test suggests. Schwarz notes that nonautistic people, too, "are rather lousy at understanding the inner state of minds too different from their

own—but the nonautistic majority gets a free pass because if they assume that the other person's mind works like their own, they have a much better chance of being right." Thus, when, for example, a child with Asperger's talks incessantly about his intense interests, he isn't deliberately dominating the conversation so much as simply failing to consider that there may be a difference between his interests and those of his peers. In terms of the caring aspect of empathy, a lively discussion that would seem to support the Markrams' theory appeared on the Web site for people with ASD called WrongPlanet. net, after a mother wrote in to ask whether her empathetic but socially immature daughter could possibly have Asperger's. "If anything, I struggle with having too much empathy" one person commented. "If someone else is upset, I am upset. There were times du ring school when other people were misbehaving, and if the teacher scolded them, I

felt like they were scolding me." Said another, "I am clueless when it comes to reading subtle cues, but I am *very* empathic. I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling, and I think this is actually quite common in AS/autism. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it." Studies have found that when people are overwhelmed by empathetic feelings, they tend to pull back. When someone else's pain affects you deeply, it can be hard to reach out rather than turn away. For people with ASD, these empathetic feelings might be so intense that they withdraw in a way that appears cold or uncaring. "These children are really not unemotional, they do want to interact, it's just difficult for them," says Markram, "It's quite sad because these are quite capable people but the world is just too intense, so they have to withdraw." Maia Szalavitz writes about the intersection between mind, brain and

society for publications like Time online, the New York Times, Elle and MSN Health. She is co-author, most recently of Lost Boy, the first memoir by a young man raised in Mormon fundamentalist polygamy, Brent Jeffs. She is senior fellow at Stats.org, a media watchdog organization.

Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School

[Guest guest]

my aspie daughter and aspie husband do the blame game. although i viewed it more

as " denial " , rather than blame. 20 or so years ago, when we were first married

and before i knew about asperger, i was confused and frustrated by this

behavior. there hasn't been much improvement over the years, but at least i

know i am not crazy. best he can offer is a sarcasm.

i have hope for my daughter however.

mel

>

>

> From: Roxanna <MadIdeasaol (DOT) com>

> Subject: Re: ( ) Article: A Radical New Autism Theory

>

> Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 11:16 AM

>

>

>  

>

>

> I think these people are well behind our list.  We've " discovered " this

theory a long time ago here.  I didn't realize it was radical or new!  lol. 

>

> I don't think it is all that simple, though.  I think it is a piece but not

the whole thing.  Sometimes they can feel too much but other times, they don't

notice at all or feel too little.  Or they don't know what is socially

correct/going on to know how to feel or why someone is having a problem.  They

may take the wrong information from a situation and get upset about things you

wouldn't have even thought about or that are unimportant to the big picture. 

Then you have the problem of identifying ones own internal feelings and acting

appropriate to the situation.  And also, there is a glitch with appreciating

the same things as a typical person would.  We had a problem recently, for

example. where a teacher got20angry with my ds and called him a liar because he

left out important information.  But it was so typical of my ds to leave out

things because he doesn't know how to figure out what is important information

and has problems relaying

> information as well.  He only gives the very basic info and even then, you

have to quiz him to get the important things.  He doesn't see the point.  I

will say, " But we didn't know that " and he will reply, " But I knew it. "   This

was such a problem in school - he was the kind=2 0of kid who could point out the

details but not be able to tell you the main idea.  His POV of a situation is

so different from " typical " POV's. 

>

> Anyway, I think this is a weird story to suggest this is " it " when it

encompasses so much more.  And then part of me is thinking, " Duh, where have

you experts been all these years? "   lol.   Kind of weird to have it called

radical and new....I guess it's nice that the experts are catching up to

us...lol.

>

>

>

>  Roxanna

>

> " The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do

nothing. " E. Burke

>

>

>

> ( ) Article: A Radical New Autism Theory

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>

> http://www.thedaily beast.com/ blogs-and- stories/2009- 05-11/a-radical-

new-autism- theory/full/

>

> by Maia Szalavitz

>

> A groundbreaking study suggests people with autism-spectrum disorders such as

Asperger's do not lack empathy†" rather they feel others' emotions too intensely

to cope.

>

> People with Asperger's syndrome, a high functioning form of autism, are often

stereotyped as distant loners or robotic geeks. But what if what looks like

coldness to the outside world is in fact a response to being overwhelmed by

emotion†" an excess of empathy, not a lack of it?

>

> This idea resonates with many people suffering from autism-spectrum disorders

and their families. It also jibes with new thinking about the nature of autism

called the " intense world " theory. As posited by Henry and Kamila Markram of the

Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne, suggests that the fundamental

problem in autism-spectrum disorders is not a social deficiency, but rather an

hypersensitivity to experience, which includes an overwhelm ing fear response.

>

> " I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling. The problem is that

it all comes in faster than I can process it. "

>

> " There are those who say autistic people don't feel enough, " says Kamila

Markram. " We're saying exac tly the opposite: They feel too much. " Virtually all

people with ASD report various types of oversensitivity and intense fear. The

Markrams argue that social difficulties of those with ASDs stem from trying to

cope with a world where someone has turned the volume on all the senses and

feelings up past 10. If hearing your parents' voices while sitting in your crib

felt like listening to Lou 's Metal Machine Music on acid, you, too, might

prefer to curl in a corner and rock.

>

> But of course, this sort of withdrawal and self-soothing behavior†" repetitive

movements, echoing words or actions and failing to make eye contact†" interferes

with normal social development. Without the experience other kids get through

ordinary social interactions, children on the spectrum never learn to understand

subtle signals.

>

> Phil Schwarz, a software developer from Massachusetts, is vice president of

the Asperger's Associaton of New England and has a child with the condition.

>

> " I think that it's a stereotype or a misconception that folks on spectrum lack

empathy, " he says. Schwarz notes that autism is not a unitary condition†" " if

you've seen one Aspie, you've seen one Aspie, " he says, using the colloquial

term. But he adds, " I20think most people with ASD feel emotional empathy and

care about the welfare of others very deeply. "

>

> So why do so many people see a lack of empathy as a defining characteristic of

ASD? The problem starts with the complexity of empathy itself,20which has at

least two critical parts: The first is simply the ability to see the world from

the perspective of another. The second is more emotional†" the ability to

imagine what the other is feeling and care about their pain as a result.

>

> The fact that autistic children tend to develop the first part of

empathy†" which is called " theory of mind " †" later than other kids was

established in a classic experiment. Children are asked to watch two puppets,

Sally and Anne. Sally takes a marble and places it in a basket, then leaves the

stage. While she's gone, Anne takes the marble out and puts it in a box. The

children are then asked: Where will Sally look first for her marble when she

returns?

>

> Normal four year olds know that Sally didn't see Anne move the marble, so they

get it right. By 10 or 11, mentally retarded children with a verbal IQ

equivalent to three-year-olds also guess correctly. But 80 percent of 10-11

year-old autistic children guess that Sally will look in the box, because they

know that that's where the marble is and they don't realize that other people

don't share all of their knowledge.

>

> It takes autistic children far longer than others to realize that other people

have different ex periences and perspectives†" and the timing of this

development varies greatly. Of course, if you don't realize that others are

seeing and feeling different things, you might well act less caring toward them.

>

> But that doesn't mea n that once people with ASD do become aware of other

people's experience, they don't care or want to connect. Schwarz says that all

the autistic adults he knows over the age of 18 have a better sense of what

others know than the Sally/Anne test suggests.

>

> Schwarz notes that nonautistic people, too, " are rather lousy at understanding

the inner state of minds too different from their own†" but the nonautistic

majority gets a free pass because if they assume that the other person's mind

works like their own, they have a much better chance of being right. " Thus,

when, for example, a child with Asperger's talks incessantly about his intense

interests, he isn't deliberately dominating the conversation so much as simply

failing to consider that there may be a difference between his interests and

those of his peers.

>

> In terms of the caring aspect of empathy, a lively discussion that would seem

to support the Markrams' theory appeared on the Web site for people with ASD

called WrongPlanet. net, after a mother wrote in to ask whether her empathetic

but socially immature daughter could possibly have Asperger's.

>

> " If anything, I struggle with having too much empathy " one person commented.

" If someone else is upset, I am upset. There were times du ring school when

other people were misbehaving, and if the teacher scolded them, I felt like they

were scolding me. "

>

> Said another, " I am clueless when it comes to reading subtle cues, but I am

*very* empathic. I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling, and I

think this is actually quite common in AS/autism. The problem is that it all

comes in faster than I can process it. "

>

> Studies have found that when people are overwhelmed by empathetic feelings,

they tend to pull back. When someone else's pain affects you deeply, it can be

hard to reach out rather than turn away. For people with ASD, these empathetic

feelings might be so intense that they withdraw in a way that appears cold or

uncaring.

>

> " These children are really not unemotional, they do want to interact, it's

just difficult for them, " says Markram, " It's quite sad because these are quite

capable people but the world is just too intense, so they have to withdraw. "

>

> Maia Szalavitz writes about the intersection between mind, brain and society

for publications like Time online, the New York Times, Elle and MSN Health. She

is co-author, most recently of Lost Boy, the first memoir by a young man raised

in Mormon fundamentalist polygamy, Brent Jeffs. She is senior fellow at

Stats.org, a media watchdog organization.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hot Deals at Dell on Popular Laptops perfect for Back to School

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I was really upset about the teacher saying that to him too.  It caused a

really awful situation for my ds as it hurt his feelings so deeply.  My ds

always hated getting quizzed by us too but yes, if we don't ask, we won't know

what is going on!!  It's automatic now for me to think through what he is

saying and ask the important questions for information he hasn't felt important

enough to share.  It didn't occur to me that a person would view this as lying,

though!  But I guess so.  We have always just known this is the way he is and

learned to question if we want to know " the rest of the story. "   lol.  But now

that he is an adult, he needs to be really careful about this as I can see this

kind of situation being repeated for him, sadly.  I talked about the situation

with him and we had a good talk about it.  Conversation is not his strong

suit!  So I was doubly surprised and impressed that we had one, lol.  A

meaningful one at that.  lol.  But I was able to say, " What do you think that

looks like to other people? " and he was like, " Well, ok...yeah... "   I wish we

could have done this years ago but of course, he wasn't there (here) yet. 

Better late than never, I guess.  lol

>

> Does your ds see problem situations by blaming everyone but himself?  This is

how my older ds views situations.  If something goes wrong, he never thinks

about what he did to cause the problem.  It is ALWAYS

> everyone else's fault.  He sometimes does this just to joke me now so I

think he sees the point in the last year or so, but his natural inclination is

always, " Look what you did to make me do that! "    Even when he does something

that isn't nice, like pushes his brother, it's because brother is in the way,

not because my older ds is being rude and pushy.  Brother forces him to behave

that way.  lol.  I've gotten used to dealing with that one as well. 

>

I've got to throw in a short response to this considering I am an " Aspie

husband " similar to one mentioned (see post by Melody). I come to realize how

much I drive my wife crazy even though I thought I was just being honest. I

hated when she accused me of always trying to be right, but I said, " what did

you expect... that I try to be wrong? " And I was serious about that statement.

Being an adult it gets harder because life is more complicated. I felt offended

by teachers often when they said something like, " why didn't you tell me " but

didn't accept my honest answer. I realize now they did not mean for me to answer

the question. They meant to accuse me of purposely withholding information. Then

I felt real offended because I had intended to tell them the thing they needed

to hear but they changed the subject or asked a different question than I

expected and that threw off my entire response. That is where the blaming came

in. So was I wrong? My solution is to write letters or memos whether it is for

my wife or boss or instructor or counselor. I simply cannot get everything out

that I was trying to say, unless I write it. That is the only way they can't

interrupt me, change the subject too soon, or claim that I said something

different than what I knew without a doubt that I did say. Of course my boss did

too much speed reading so I had to tell him to read it again and his concern was

answered. I had to keep a copy of the one for my wife because she didn't

understand it and I would have to elaborate after her feedback. My therapist

sometimes had a simple question that often seemed to nullify most of my long

paper. Hmmm. Apparently I had been doing some " jumping to conclusions " , and I

could have saved a lot of trouble by asking another question first.

I used to make all my statements real short. The words were carefully selected

and arranged and condensed so I thought it said and implied everything I needed

to say. It never seemed to work. By high school I had decided all adults were

idiots so I had to spell out everything possible by predicting every stupid

misunderstanding they might have and address it. I still have that habit but I

learned something more important than that in cases where I am face-to-face with

a person. The answer is two-way communication.

Parents, you don't have to have your children start writing all these

long-winded explanations every time they want to get a point across. Work on

good communications skills with them. One thing that's hard for me as the Aspie

is to intercede in a conversation where I feel I've lost control, and quickly

say, " there was something important I wanted to say first " . If I had that

figured out earlier I could have saved a lot of grief on both sides.

I promise most of the time it was not that I had not " felt important enough to

share " , although that is sort of it sometimes. Most of the time it was that I

didn't know how to maintain control of the conversation and they ran off in

another direction. It was easier just go go into automatic mode--responding to

their exact questions.

[Guest guest]

That is not the problem for my ds. He grew up having a major speech delay, dyslexia and capd which still affects him to this day. Communicating is very hard for him because of these reasons and still is.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

Re: ( ) Article: A Radical New Autism Theory

>

> I was really upset about th

e teacher saying that to him too. It caused a really awful situation for my ds as it hurt his feelings so deeply. My ds always hated getting quizzed by us too but yes, if we don't ask, we won't know what is going on!! It's automatic now for me to think through what he is saying and ask the important questions for information he hasn't felt important enough to share. It didn't occur to me that a person would view this as lying, though! But I guess so. We have always just known this is the way he is and learned to question if we want to know "the rest of the story." lol. But now that he is an adult, he needs to be really careful about this as I can see this kind of situation being repeated for him, sadly. I talked about the situation with him and we had a good talk about it. Conversation is not his strong suit! So I was doubly surprised and impressed that we had one, lol. A meaningful one at that. lol. But I was able to say, "What do you think that looks like to other people?" and he was like, "Well, ok...yeah..." I wish we could have done this years ago but of course, he wasn't there (here) yet. Better late than never, I guess. lol

>

> Does your ds see problem situations by blaming everyone but himself? This is how my older ds views situations. If something goes wrong

, he never thinks about what he did to cause the problem. It is ALWAYS

> everyone else's fault. He sometimes does this just to joke me now so I think he sees the point in the last year or so, but his natural inclination is always, "Look what you did to make me do that!"  Even when he does something that isn't nice, like pushes his brother, it's because brother is in the way, not because my older ds is being rude and pushy. Brother forces him to behave that way. lol. I've gotten used to dealing with that one as well.Â

>

I've got to throw in a short response to this considering I am an "Aspie husband" similar to one mentioned (see post by Melody). I come to realize how much I drive my wife crazy even though I thought I was just being honest. I hated when she accused me of always trying to be right, but I said, "what did you expect... that I try to be wrong?" And I was serious about that statement. Being an adult it gets harder because life is more complicated. I felt offended by teachers often when they said something like, "why didn't you tell me" but didn't accept my honest answer. I realize now they did not mean for me to answer the question. They meant to accuse me of purposely withholding information. Then I felt real offended because I had intended to tell them the thing they needed to hear but they changed the subject or asked a different question than=2

0I expected and that threw off my entire response. That is where the blaming came in. So was I wrong? My solution is to write letters or memos whether it is for my wife or boss or instructor or counselor. I simply cannot get everything out that I was trying to say, unless I write it. That is the only way they can't interrupt me, change the subject too soon, or claim that I said something different than what I knew without a doubt that I did say. Of course my boss did too much speed reading so I had to tell him to read it again and his concern was answered. I had to keep a copy of the one for my wife because she didn't understand it and I would have to elaborate after her feedback. My therapist sometimes had a simple question that often seemed to nullify most of my long paper. Hmmm. Apparently I had been doing some "jumping to conclusions", and I could have saved a lot of trouble by asking another question first.

I used to make all my statements real short. The words were carefully selected and arranged and condensed so I thought it said and implied everything I needed to say. It never seemed to work. By high school I had decided all adults were idiots so I had to spell out everything possible by predicting every stupid misunderstanding they might have and address it. I still have that habit but I learned something more important than that in cases where I am face-to-face with a person. The answer is two-way communication.

Parents, you don't

have to have your children start writing all these long-winded explanations every time they want to get a point across. Work on good communications skills with them. One thing that's hard for me as the Aspie is to intercede in a conversation where I feel I've lost control, and quickly say, "there was something important I wanted to say first". If I had that figured out earlier I could have saved a lot of grief on both sides.

I promise most of the time it was not that I had not "felt important enough to share", although that is sort of it sometimes. Most of the time it was that I didn't know how to maintain control of the conversation and they ran off in another direction. It was easier just go go into automatic mode--responding to their exact questions.

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

[Guest guest]

Again! Jeff… I can identify with 100% of your post. My emails

are NEVER short (except when I’m whipping off these responses!) and I tend to “go

on and on”. Post MORE!

=)

From:

[mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Jeff

Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 4:47 AM

Subject: ( ) Re: Article: A Radical New Autism Theory

>

>

> http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-11/a-radical-new-autism-theory/full/

>

>

> by Maia Szalavitz

>

> A groundbreaking study suggests people with autism-spectrum

> disorders such as Asperger's do not lack empathy—rather they feel

> others' emotions too intensely to cope.

>

I concur.

I will read the article tomorrow but right now I want to say that I have been

trying to tell " the experts " that I really do feel overwhelming

empathy, knowing how people must feel although I have not been in their

situation, ever since I was a child. Especially I believe I understand a

child's point of view and feelings in a way their parents seem incapable of

understanding, even though I am over 35.

I only learned about Asperger's syndrome last year and felt surprised that someone

else did understand what I was going through. I was frustrated that

" experts " tried to dissuade me from saying " I have

Asperger's " just because _they_ were not certain I did (Who cares what

they think; They cannot change who I am by their decisions). I felt cheated of

something because I was already an adult and they would not diagnose me. I felt

cheated because I never had any of the seemingly important developmental

therapy as a child. But all of that did not matter. It did still matter that I

was not wrong, and I needed to learn self-confidence.

I realized gradually that my insight was far more sensitive than theirs even

though I felt like a child most of the time. I knew more than the experts did

about myself, and in fact about other people especially after meeting them. I

felt like a 'super genius' who looked stupid to the " experts "

('super' meaning over-the-top which is why it turns dysfunctional).

I can't tell you how many times I felt frustrated because someone insisted that

I could not understand how they felt; Yet in time they unknowingly showed me

that I was correct. Ultimately I came to believe the reason I feel hurt is

because I know more than they know about their pain, why they deny it, why they

reinforce their pain, and that I cannot help ease it because they do not want

me to. And then there were the more difficult situations where I tried to help

another parent understand their child so naturally they hated me because it was

not my place. Then when I turned to try to help the child it could get even

worse...

Well that's my bit-in-the-bucket for the night (heh, I just now made up that

phrase, pretty cool). Good night, or good day, depending on time/place. Some

say I talk too much to say something simple but speed readers beware; you've

probably missed many important points. I waste no words and say nothing for no

reason

[Guest guest]

>

>

> That is not the problem for my ds.  He grew up having a major speech delay,

dyslexia and capd which still affects him to this day.  Communicating is very

hard for him because of these reasons and still is. 

>

Thanks, I had not heard of CAPD (apparently now called APD) so I looked it up.

From the time I read the words, " Auditory Processing Disorder " , I suspected that

I have that very problem. Sure enough it

[http://www.myomancy.com/2005/08/auditory_proces] goes on to describe symptoms

that often drove me crazy but I didn't know why other people didn't understand.

They thought I was deaf but I have very sensitive hearing. I assumed other

people would have to remove their headphones to hear me but they wondered why I

sat there staring at them not saying anything. When I said something I was

surprised they understood with music in their ear at the same time. Another

thing is that I had terrible time understanding people with accents. It is also

a big reason why I prefer writing and want them to write their response.

Sometimes I have a big misunderstanding because I got one or two words wrong.

This problem combines with Asperger's syndrome to make it more difficult to sort

out what people are saying. I wish I had better skill at getting what someone is

saying out of context, but I'm working on it.

I feel very lucky I do not have symptoms of dyslexia. I feel too obsessed rather

with perfecting the spelling of things. If I kept reversing things I might

really get frustrated :-O Still I guess it would be like the number problem I

have. I do switch some digits sometimes, but overall I just get digits wrong. I

look up a phone number and keep looking back at it but somehow I dial it wrong.

I just couldn't picture a big number like that. It's terrible when trying to

look between the list and the keypad because I can't find the right number again

in the list and even finished with a different one sometimes. After I dialed it

a few times I remembered it. Long-term memory: fine, short-term: non-existent.

Maybe memorizing phone numbers has a lot to do with the visual pattern on the

standard phone keypad. Hard to switch to a computer keypad which is upside down

and " */# " are all messed up.

Maybe CAPD has been a bigger problem for me than I realized, just because I

thought it was normal except of course I blamed other people for not speaking

clear, talking during a train passing, or blamed my own memory--not remembering

long enough the exact sounds they made to form the word while at the same time

trying to picture the whole thing they were saying.

[Guest guest]

Well, if you stick around long enough, we will come up with more disabilities you can adopt.

Roxanna

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E. Burke

( ) Re: Article: A Radical New Autism Theory

>

>

> That is not the problem for my ds. He grew up having a major speech delay, dyslexia and capd which still affects him to thi

s day. Communicating is very hard for him because of these reasons and still is.Â

>

Thanks, I had not heard of CAPD (apparently now called APD) so I looked it up. From the time I read the words, "Auditory Processing Disorder", I suspected that I have that very problem. Sure enough it [http://www.myomancy.com/2005/08/auditory_proces] goes on to describe symptoms that often drove me crazy but I didn't know why other people didn't understand. They thought I was deaf but I have very sensitive hearing. I assumed other people would have to remove their headphones to hear me but they wondered why I sat there staring at them not saying anything. When I said something I was surprised they understood with music in their ear at the same time. Another thing is that I had terrible time understanding people with accents. It is also a big reason why I prefer writing and want them to write their response. Sometimes I have a big misunderstanding because I got one or two words wrong. This problem combines with Asperger's syndrome to make it more difficult to sort out what people are saying. I wish I had better skill at getting what someone is saying out of context, but I'm working on it.

I feel very lucky I do not have symptoms of dyslexia. I feel too obsessed rather with perfecting the spelling of things. If I kept reversing things I might really get frustrated :-O Still I gue

ss it would be like the number problem I have. I do switch some digits sometimes, but overall I just get digits wrong. I look up a phone number and keep looking back at it but somehow I dial it wrong. I just couldn't picture a big number like that. It's terrible when trying to look between the list and the keypad because I can't find the right number again in the list and even finished with a different one sometimes. After I dialed it a few times I remembered it. Long-term memory: fine, short-term: non-existent. Maybe memorizing phone numbers has a lot to do with the visual pattern on the standard phone keypad. Hard to switch to a computer keypad which is upside down and "*/#" are all messed up.

Maybe CAPD has been a bigger problem for me than I realized, just because I thought it was normal except of course I blamed other people for not speaking clear, talking during a train passing, or blamed my own memory--not remembering long enough the exact sounds they made to form the word while at the same time trying to picture the whole thing they were saying.