Re: Considering Private School

March 25, 2011

Have you heard of Hoagies website before? Information and resources for the gifted. Here is a link below. One thing I remember reading last year was to make sure you get a private evaluation/IQ test from someone who specializes in giftedness. There is a different IQ test that can be given, a more accurate one and how it is interpreted is crucial. Such like most schools really/secretly don't want to have to give out services, they may also not really want to offer special classes for the gifted. Is it a gifted program within the same school? Would it just be a couple pull out classes or is it truly a gifted all day school? Just things to consider.

It definately does not sound like this is the least restrictive environment. That is the law. His academic ability speaks for itself. It sounds like in the letter that they are infact preferring him to stay there simply because of his behavior concerns. The mainstream classroom does not want to have to deal with your son's behavior. But they have to. With the help of a behavoir plan, an aide or what ever it takes. They have to by law! But you see, it's easier and more in their budget to keep him where he is.

My son, also with a 120 IQ (school tested - I was told by an MD that it is probably higher if tested properly) had AWFUL behavior (I say had because we recently removed him from school ) The large class size, unorganized, loud, chaotic classrom, unsupportive teacher, and really boring stupid class assignments where all too much for him. He was in trouble everyday, tantrums, suspensions, the whole nine yards. We already had a dx of Aspergers from an outside source and when they learned of that (before the IEP process started) the principal and teacher were already talking to other parents about how they were going to place my son in a special ed day class where it would be a "better fit" for my son..... I was so devastated when I heard that! And scared. We got an advocate for the IEP meeting and it did change the tone and professionalism. Anyway the discussion of placement never came up. I kept waiting for an argument to fight for my son's right to stay in the least restrictive environment but - we didn't have to. They knew. Part of me was curious for my son to try it because I knew he would do well in a small class size but there would be other parts of the puzzle missing. He would need more than that - you are right, part of the problem is the boredom for not being challenged. I read somewhere (maybe in the website below) that the public school system teaches to an average IQ of 85! I don't know if that is true and I suppose some schools and some teachers can be accomodating but we have not had that luck!

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/gifted_101.htm

Also, this is a book our old Montessori teacher told us about before we moved out of state. Sorry to say I never read it yet because she told us about it 3 years ago before our diagnosis and IEP process and I just found her email tonight when searching for the above link for you!!

Smart Kids With Learning Difficulties-Overcoming obstacles and Ralizing> Potential by Rich Weinfeld

Hope this all helps! Please keep us updated!

( ) Considering Private School

My 8 year old 3rd grader with Asperger's was recently reevaluated, by my request. My wife and I don't feel that he needs to stay in a TES classroom next year. The so call IEP Team disagrees, stating that is not ready to leave the TES classroom. Because he still needs the support that it offers.

The lady that administered the test to wrote the following paragraph to conclude the report.

demonstrates few academic needs, as he is a quick learner and his skills are well advanced. However, he needs a learning environment with a smaller number of students; one that is highly structured: one that has much opportunity for individual attention, monitoring, and redirection; one in which teacher and staff understand his behavioral and academic characteristics and needs and knows how to redirect him; one that does not overwhelm him with behavioral and academic expectations beyond his ability to cope; and one that focuses on teaching him self regulation to be academically productive at the levels at which he is capable, and that teaches him the socially interactive skills to be fully included when the team feels that he is ready.

did very well on these test and ended up with a Full Scale IQ of 121. My wife and I wanted placed in a gifted class, because we felt that they were ignoring his academic needs to focus on social skills and behavioral development. But meanwhile he is growing bored and his bad behaviors have increased. no longer enjoys going to school. He has started refusing to do work and challenge his teacher. He had made comments to her like "This is the crappiest seven hours of my day". The IEP team feels that does not have time to get bored, that he has a very structured day. As if structure prevents boredom.

currently leaves the TES classroom twice a day. Once for a 4th grade advanced math class, and later for a 3rd grade science class. 's TES teacher observed him in his math class, without being aware. The following comments were included in the reevaluation report.

was observed by the TES teacher while was with the regular fourth grade Math class. The teacher stood in the hall and observed through the doorway. stayed in his seat. He would look out the window and appear not paying attention. When called upon would respond correctly. He looked out the window four times for at least forty five seconds each time. He was able to pay attention to the teacher and give correct responses. may have stared for longer periods of time, but was prompted by the aide to pay attention.

That to me proves my point that he is bored. He does not have to follow the teachers every movement in the classroom. He simply needs to listen, so that he can respond correctly. He is not being challenged. This is a 4th grade math class, and is a 3rd grader. He is capable of much more. But when his boredom causes him to act up, or distract the class, they document this and claim it is proof that he is not ready to return to a regular education classroom, because his behaviors are not what they should be.

The psychologist that administered testing made the following comments.

Although eye contact was limited ( looked around the room as he was speaking), was pleasant and engaging, answered informal questions about his interest, and conversed appropriately. He expressed himself in a mature manner and was attentive and cooperative throughout the individual assessment. He seemed to especially enjoy working on tasks that he found challenging (commented "I am very intelligent") and was able to maintain mental concentration even when he tired of sitting and became fidgety. He refused several offers to take a break and was persistent in solving difficult problems.

So, there you have it. If he is challenged he stays focused. If he is not, then some of the things that we have seen is that he will look out the window, reflect sunlight around the room with his dry erase board, hum, or make noises with his mouth, tap pencils, or doodle in his notebook.

Now to my point in all of this. Remember I stated in the beginning that had a full scale IQ of 121. Well, my wife and I wanted to be place in a gifted classroom, so that he would be challenged, and he would once again enjoy going to school, and not feel that it is the crappiest seven hours of his day. We want school to be fun for him, at least going his elementary years. But according to what I learned at the meeting, does not qualify for placement in gifted classroom because his IQ is below 130.

So, the only change that is being recommended is that leave his TES classroom for another class, yet to be determined. That will be decided upon at the next IEP meeting, next week. This will mean that he is out of his TES classroom pretty much the entire school day. But next year is my concern. The IEP team recommends more of the same. I say it is not working, because it is causing the problems it is to be preventing.

He will not be put in a gifted program, because he does not qualify. So, I am going to start looking at a private school near us. It has low enrollment, and the number of students per class are not more than 15. Often times it is less than 10. Many of my questions I know will be answered by the private school when I contact them on Monday. But, what I need from this group is advice. Any and all concerning what I have written here. Is private school a good idea? I don't want to home school because then there would not be social skills learned, and no interaction with children his own age. The only interaction with children his own age then would be with the kids that live in our neighborhood. And that I feel would be counterproductive.

Many of you have been through similar circumstances. What did you learn from it, that you could share? Something, that might save my wife and I a lot of time and frustration. One thing that I don't understand in all of this is why the IEP team cannot see that bad behaviors can be caused by the student not being challenged. Is it simply because they don't want to admit they are wrong? Or is it that they truly don't know what else they can do?

Tim

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March 26, 2011

,

We are in Southwestern Pennsylvania. TES stands for Therapeutic Emotional Support. 's classroom is a TES classroom. We do have an advocate that attended the last meeting with me. The longer that the meeting dragged on, the more the advocate was drawn into what the IEP team was pitching. I don't know if she will be at the next meeting or not. And I really don't care one way or the other. When I told my son's Behaviorist that recommended this advocate, that she offered almost no support. He said he will talk to her. She is the only Parent Advocate in our county. And as far as I am concerned she can pound sand.

Tim

: Fri, March 25, 2011 7:19:06 PMSubject: ( ) Re: Considering Private School

Tim, what state are you in and what is TES? The school said your son did not meet the criteria for the gifted program, so did you ask for a copy of a paper copy of the criteria for the gifted program? Check it out for yourself.As far as your iep team goes, they are all very similar in that they essentially exist to deny problems and services. Since you are considering private schools, I would tell you I think you have only 2 options:1. Go the private route and save you and your wife this exact type of headache and heartache that you WILL endure on a daily and weekly and monthly basis. If you could find a private specialized school I would say, "Jackpot" and go for it. Granted, no school is a panacea for our kids, but it sounds like you could do a lot better somewhere else.Option 2:2.) Declare war and go into battle mode. From my experience, schools(teachers, principal's, staff members) will cover each other's asses and

you will almost never be in agreement with the rest of the "iep team" members. Your stress levels will alternate from high to "he's gonna blow" You and your spouse will constantly or almost always argue about neglecting the other kids and each other. When you're not arguing you're both asleep. Your lives will be forever changed in a way that you'll start to resent parents "that have it good" because they have nt kids and have no idea of what were going through on a regular basis. Things will only, maybe, hopefully improve if you or your wife are willing to take on your son's education like you would a full time job. My opinion.>> My 8 year old 3rd grader with Asperger's was recently reevaluated, by my > request. My

wife and I don't feel that he needs to stay in a TES classroom next > year. The so call IEP Team disagrees, stating that is not ready to leave > the TES classroom. Because he still needs the support that it offers. > > > The lady that administered the test to wrote the following paragraph to > conclude the report. > > > demonstrates few academic needs, as he is a quick learner and his skills > are well advanced. However, he needs a learning environment with a smaller > number of students; one that is highly structured: one that has much opportunity > for individual attention, monitoring, and redirection; one in which teacher and > staff understand his behavioral and academic characteristics and needs and knows > how to redirect him; one that does not overwhelm him with behavioral and > academic expectations beyond his ability to cope;

and one that focuses on > teaching him self regulation to be academically productive at the levels at > which he is capable, and that teaches him the socially interactive skills to be > fully included when the team feels that he is ready.> > did very well on these test and ended up with a Full Scale IQ of 121. My > wife and I wanted placed in a gifted class, because we felt that they were > ignoring his academic needs to focus on social skills and behavioral > development. But meanwhile he is growing bored and his bad behaviors have > increased. no longer enjoys going to school. He has started refusing to do > work and challenge his teacher. He had made comments to her like "This is the > crappiest seven hours of my day". The IEP team feels that does not have > time to get bored, that he has a very structured day. As if structure prevents >

boredom. > > > currently leaves the TES classroom twice a day. Once for a 4th grade > advanced math class, and later for a 3rd grade science class. 's TES teacher > observed him in his math class, without being aware. The following comments > were included in the reevaluation report. > > > was observed by the TES teacher while was with the regular fourth > grade Math class. The teacher stood in the hall and observed through the > doorway. stayed in his seat. He would look out the window and appear not > paying attention. When called upon would respond correctly. He looked out > the window four times for at least forty five seconds each time. He was able to > pay attention to the teacher and give correct responses. may have stared > for longer periods of time, but was prompted by the aide to pay attention.

> > > That to me proves my point that he is bored. He does not have to follow the > teachers every movement in the classroom. He simply needs to listen, so that he > can respond correctly. He is not being challenged. This is a 4th grade math > class, and is a 3rd grader. He is capable of much more. But when his > boredom causes him to act up, or distract the class, they document this and > claim it is proof that he is not ready to return to a regular education > classroom, because his behaviors are not what they should be. > > > The psychologist that administered testing made the following comments. > > Although eye contact was limited ( looked around the room as he was > speaking), was pleasant and engaging, answered informal questions about his > interest, and conversed appropriately. He expressed himself in a mature

manner > and was attentive and cooperative throughout the individual assessment. He > seemed to especially enjoy working on tasks that he found challenging (commented > "I am very intelligent") and was able to maintain mental concentration even when > he tired of sitting and became fidgety. He refused several offers to take a > break and was persistent in solving difficult problems. > > > So, there you have it. If he is challenged he stays focused. If he is not, then > some of the things that we have seen is that he will look out the window, > reflect sunlight around the room with his dry erase board, hum, or make noises > with his mouth, tap pencils, or doodle in his notebook.> > Now to my point in all of this. Remember I stated in the beginning that had > a full scale IQ of 121. Well, my wife and I wanted to be place in a gifted >

classroom, so that he would be challenged, and he would once again enjoy going > to school, and not feel that it is the crappiest seven hours of his day. We want > school to be fun for him, at least going his elementary years. But according to > what I learned at the meeting, does not qualify for placement in gifted > classroom because his IQ is below 130. > > > So, the only change that is being recommended is that leave his TES > classroom for another class, yet to be determined. That will be decided upon at > the next IEP meeting, next week. This will mean that he is out of his TES > classroom pretty much the entire school day. But next year is my concern. The > IEP team recommends more of the same. I say it is not working, because it is > causing the problems it is to be preventing. > > > He will not be put in a gifted program, because

he does not qualify. So, I am > going to start looking at a private school near us. It has low enrollment, and > the number of students per class are not more than 15. Often times it is less > than 10. Many of my questions I know will be answered by the private school when > I contact them on Monday. But, what I need from this group is advice. Any and > all concerning what I have written here. Is private school a good idea? I don't > want to home school because then there would not be social skills learned, and > no interaction with children his own age. The only interaction with children his > own age then would be with the kids that live in our neighborhood. And that I > feel would be counterproductive. > > > Many of you have been through similar circumstances. What did you learn from it, > that you could share? Something, that might save my wife and I a

lot of time and > frustration. One thing that I don't understand in all of this is why the IEP > team cannot see that bad behaviors can be caused by the student not being > challenged. Is it simply because they don't want to admit they are wrong? Or is > it that they truly don't know what else they can do?> > Tim>

March 26, 2011

ï»¿

We felt the same way about our advocate, by the 3rd meeting we realized she wasn't really advocating anything... but I guess her presence still kept them on the straight and narrow (they didnt pull any funny stuff). I would suggest a different advocate. Find one - many will travel or give over the phone advice.

( ) Re: Considering Private School

Tim, what state are you in and what is TES? The school said your son did not meet the criteria for the gifted program, so did you ask for a copy of a paper copy of the criteria for the gifted program? Check it out for yourself.As far as your iep team goes, they are all very similar in that they essentially exist to deny problems and services. Since you are considering private schools, I would tell you I think you have only 2 options:1. Go the private route and save you and your wife this exact type of headache and heartache that you WILL endure on a daily and weekly and monthly basis. If you could find a private specialized school I would say, "Jackpot" and go for it. Granted, no school is a panacea for our kids, but it sounds like you could do a lot better somewhere else.Option 2:2.) Declare war and go into battle mode. From my experience, schools(teachers, principal's, staff members) will cover each other's asses and you will almost never be in agreement with the rest of the "iep team" members. Your stress levels will alternate from high to "he's gonna blow" You and your spouse will constantly or almost always argue about neglecting the other kids and each other. When you're not arguing you're both asleep. Your lives will be forever changed in a way that you'll start to resent parents "that have it good" because they have nt kids and have no idea of what were going through on a regular basis. Things will only, maybe, hopefully improve if you or your wife are willing to take on your son's education like you would a full time job. My opinion.>> My 8 year old 3rd grader with Asperger's was recently reevaluated, by my > request. My wife and I don't feel that he needs to stay in a TES classroom next > year. The so call IEP Team disagrees, stating that is not ready to leave > the TES classroom. Because he still needs the support that it offers. > > > The lady that administered the test to wrote the following paragraph to > conclude the report. > > > demonstrates few academic needs, as he is a quick learner and his skills > are well advanced. However, he needs a learning environment with a smaller > number of students; one that is highly structured: one that has much opportunity > for individual attention, monitoring, and redirection; one in which teacher and > staff understand his behavioral and academic characteristics and needs and knows > how to redirect him; one that does not overwhelm him with behavioral and > academic expectations beyond his ability to cope; and one that focuses on > teaching him self regulation to be academically productive at the levels at > which he is capable, and that teaches him the socially interactive skills to be > fully included when the team feels that he is ready.> > did very well on these test and ended up with a Full Scale IQ of 121. My > wife and I wanted placed in a gifted class, because we felt that they were > ignoring his academic needs to focus on social skills and behavioral > development. But meanwhile he is growing bored and his bad behaviors have > increased. no longer enjoys going to school. He has started refusing to do > work and challenge his teacher. He had made comments to her like "This is the > crappiest seven hours of my day". The IEP team feels that does not have > time to get bored, that he has a very structured day. As if structure prevents > boredom. > > > currently leaves the TES classroom twice a day. Once for a 4th grade > advanced math class, and later for a 3rd grade science class. 's TES teacher > observed him in his math class, without being aware. The following comments > were included in the reevaluation report. > > > was observed by the TES teacher while was with the regular fourth > grade Math class. The teacher stood in the hall and observed through the > doorway. stayed in his seat. He would look out the window and appear not > paying attention. When called upon would respond correctly. He looked out > the window four times for at least forty five seconds each time. He was able to > pay attention to the teacher and give correct responses. may have stared > for longer periods of time, but was prompted by the aide to pay attention. > > > That to me proves my point that he is bored. He does not have to follow the > teachers every movement in the classroom. He simply needs to listen, so that he > can respond correctly. He is not being challenged. This is a 4th grade math > class, and is a 3rd grader. He is capable of much more. But when his > boredom causes him to act up, or distract the class, they document this and > claim it is proof that he is not ready to return to a regular education > classroom, because his behaviors are not what they should be. > > > The psychologist that administered testing made the following comments. > > Although eye contact was limited ( looked around the room as he was > speaking), was pleasant and engaging, answered informal questions about his > interest, and conversed appropriately. He expressed himself in a mature manner > and was attentive and cooperative throughout the individual assessment. He > seemed to especially enjoy working on tasks that he found challenging (commented > "I am very intelligent") and was able to maintain mental concentration even when > he tired of sitting and became fidgety. He refused several offers to take a > break and was persistent in solving difficult problems. > > > So, there you have it. If he is challenged he stays focused. If he is not, then > some of the things that we have seen is that he will look out the window, > reflect sunlight around the room with his dry erase board, hum, or make noises > with his mouth, tap pencils, or doodle in his notebook.> > Now to my point in all of this. Remember I stated in the beginning that had > a full scale IQ of 121. Well, my wife and I wanted to be place in a gifted > classroom, so that he would be challenged, and he would once again enjoy going > to school, and not feel that it is the crappiest seven hours of his day. We want > school to be fun for him, at least going his elementary years. But according to > what I learned at the meeting, does not qualify for placement in gifted > classroom because his IQ is below 130. > > > So, the only change that is being recommended is that leave his TES > classroom for another class, yet to be determined. That will be decided upon at > the next IEP meeting, next week. This will mean that he is out of his TES > classroom pretty much the entire school day. But next year is my concern. The > IEP team recommends more of the same. I say it is not working, because it is > causing the problems it is to be preventing. > > > He will not be put in a gifted program, because he does not qualify. So, I am > going to start looking at a private school near us. It has low enrollment, and > the number of students per class are not more than 15. Often times it is less > than 10. Many of my questions I know will be answered by the private school when > I contact them on Monday. But, what I need from this group is advice. Any and > all concerning what I have written here. Is private school a good idea? I don't > want to home school because then there would not be social skills learned, and > no interaction with children his own age. The only interaction with children his > own age then would be with the kids that live in our neighborhood. And that I > feel would be counterproductive. > > > Many of you have been through similar circumstances. What did you learn from it, > that you could share? Something, that might save my wife and I a lot of time and > frustration. One thing that I don't understand in all of this is why the IEP > team cannot see that bad behaviors can be caused by the student not being > challenged. Is it simply because they don't want to admit they are wrong? Or is > it that they truly don't know what else they can do?> > Tim>

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March 28, 2011

I have been very impressed with the help of the Disability Rights Advocates, not that it was a magic wand for us but they already have report with the schools and are not emotionally invested as I so they could help me to give when I had to to get something more important on the table. for those of us without the money to hire people to help us, I highly reccommend them. Of course they do not take all cases, but if you are convinced your child is being denied a freee and appropriate public education, then I would go to them and give them yout laundry list of concerns to bring before their board for approval. It is nice from a parent standpoit, because the district knows they have lawyers on hand and are not afraid to use them if things do go terribly wrong, so they are more amenable to tryign

to work it out, I have found, omce they know they will be there. None of the other advocates we had before hten we re of much help to us. Good luck.

From: <doyourecycle@...> Sent: Sat, March 26, 2011 5:50:28 PMSubject: Re: ( ) Re: Considering Private School

Tim, I've gone through 2 advocates and am on my 3rd. This one is fantastic. The first one was a Dr. who wasn't afraid to let you know how highly she thought of herself. She ended up telling me that I would need to mend fences with the school to get what I wanted. She got caught up in the feeling of superiority with her credentials. In the end she did nothing for me but give me a big bill. I got rid of her. Next one came from a recommendation of parents in my community. She was a total weenie. At the meeting--with 11 school personnel--she totally deferred to the head bitch of the team. That meeting was a disaster. I called her after and told her how embarrassed I was by her lack of backbone. She told me not to pay my bill and I didn't. But, I would have refused to pay her anyways. I should have evaluated the people who gave me her name. I should

have gauged how well they knew the iep process before I just agreed to go with someone who was recommended by another parent. My lesson learned with these advocates is that I was so desperate for "professional" help that I took the first one that seemed good enough. With more thought and perspective, I would have weeded those two out of the running from the get go. I would have looked for the advocate who had no ties to public schools (the dr. was a former teacher) and for a person who actually knew the local regulations and how they would help my case.

With my 3rd advocate, I am so impressed. She happens to also be a parent with an older son on the spectrum. This woman knows the state regulations as well as IDEA. She has told me, though, that I too, need to read up on my state regs as well as read about how to write goals. She wants me actively involved in the process. I met her through a parent support online site. I was asking the group a lot of questions and she sent me some legal briefs to read from due process hearings. We hit it off from there.

Do you have any local parent support groups? Can you solicit advice on your situation with your son? You didn't tell me if you got your hands on a copy of the criteria for the gifted program. I would absolutely do that. The other little interesting detail that I recommend all parents do is to file a FERPA request. This gives you access and/or copies of all of your son's school records that you probably are not even aware of. I did one and found observations that the school never told me about. I ended up filing to have those inaccurate (and some total lies) records removed from my son's records. When it comes down to it you will have to start documenting every interaction you have with the school about your child. You will need to make MFR (memo for the record) on any discussion you have with the school and then request that your MFR be

placed in your son's record.

As far as your son's specific case, I wish I could give you better guidance. What I can tell you is that if you discuss any issues with your son outside of an IEP meeting, it will be as if it never happened. Problems have to be documented for the record at his IEP meeting's to make anything happen. First, though, you have to find out what your options are when you disagree with the TES placement. I wish you could find a parent whose been through this to give you guidance.

On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Tim Kay <timothyskay@...> wrote: