Re: classroom placement for a very smart aspie

[Guest guest]

I think I would accept the placement. It will give them the opportunity to see

how he is. They will suffer the natural consequences of the situation if he has

meltdowns. The fact that they want to give him services is great. My son was

in an early childhood program through kindergarten because the program continued

and there were about 10 other kids his age all with a variety of issues. This

ECC also brought in typical kids his age as models of developmentally

appropriate behavior. Most ECCs that I've encountered do this. I think it's

reasonable that he'd do just fine in the regular kindergarten given your

previous experiences at preschool but if you jump into it and it's problematic

it is my opinion that getting him the right services might be harder.

Also, since you're moving him into a public school it might just be a completely

different experience for him. I really thought would be okay in a regular

classroom for 1st grade. Actually, he WAS doing well in it, but then we moved

to Texas where they demolished his IEP and took away all his support. We left

land and went to Texas in the middle of 's first grade year. What a

NIGHTMARE. Getting the services back was the biggest fight EVER. If it's

really bad you can call another IEP but I believe it's easier to change from a

special ed to a typical classroom than the other way around. Well, that's my

experience anyway.

If the school is good at inclusion then there won't be many special ed

classrooms for high functioning kids, but that would be fine. My son is in a

regular classroom now and has been for a few years. He has AMAZING services.

He has a 1:1 support person (a guy! how cool is that, they always try to place

him with male paras) He gets pulled if he's struggling or being disruptive and

he gets pulled for speech/social skills. He isn't taking foreign language

because that was so stressful he was running and hiding under the stairs at

school to avoid it. The spanish teacher at his school in 5th grade (he's in 7th

now) was so RIGID about how assignments were done he couldn't cope.

Ask them about the program and why he's going to be the only 5 year old in it.

I wouldn't push for him to go to K early even if he's really close to the right

age. I was fortunate that my son was born in February so didn't go to K until

he was 5.5 years old. They are smart and can do all the academics but are often

socially immature. That would leave him in a situation where he might be

stigmatized.

When my daughter was in K she had a kid in her class who had AS. I was SURE it

was asperger syndrome. His mother let them pin a label of Emotionally Disturbed

on him. Anyway, one day I was volunteering and helping in the " art center " and

the boy was having a meltdown and one of the other kids said, " He's the bad

kid. " Of course, I made sure I explained that the kid couldn't help it and that

he might have some problem that would cause him not to understand or to be

scared. Then I spoke to the guidance counselor about it and she did a classroom

thing to try to help the kids understand their classmate.

I don't know what happened to him. I think his mom put him in another school.

Anyway, it was intensely painful for me to watch because I just KNEW. I could

work with the kid when other people couldn't because I just had the right

experience. It was all so familiar. I'm sure his self esteem was down the

toilet. Poor kid. I hope he's okay.

Maybe you could ask to observe the class. Is there just one Early Childhood

classroom? Maybe there is one for older kids. Keep me posted on how things go.

Tell them about your concerns and ask them how they'll deal with behavior issues

and academics. Ask them what they'll do if he has a meltdown. Ask them what

they'll do to prepare him for being in a regular classroom. Ask they why they

think he won't do well in their kindergarten and also ask to observe

kindergarten.

Once he's in school if you can, volunteer in the classroom or in the school in

some capacity to see how it's run. You'll see what happens when teachers are in

difficult situations and you'll see how the kids behave toward each other. You

might get the opportunity to answer questions the kids ask you about your child.

This is VERY valuable IMHO. Answer questions without judging how the question

was asked unless it's very clearly meant to be rude. One kid asked me, " Why is

so annoying. " He wasn't trying to be rude, he really wasn't. He was

clumsy at expressing himself. So I told him about asperger syndrome. By this

time (4th grade I think) knew about his diagnosis and was starting to talk

to other people about it. He is starting to be able to advocate for himself now

and is also able to help other kids with AS when he sees them struggling with

something that used to be hard for him. Anyway, made a lot of great

friends in 3rd, 4th and the beginning of 5th and I know it was partly because I

was always there for his library time to talk to the kids and answer their

questions and also to help be a better friend to them if I caught him doing

something that was rotten but that he really didn't KNOW was rotten.

once wrote a story about a boy named Ian. It was a fictional story and he

wrote that the kid died. then thought it would be a great idea to show a

kid named Ian in his class. It was really HARD for to understand why Ian

was angry. Fortunately, I was getting to know Ian's mom and I'd had a

conversation with her about Ian having had an appendectomy at the beginning of

the year. So when I talked to I told him that Ian might be really scared

by the story and mentioned the surgery and really got it. needed

something sort of concrete to help him understand why it would be scary for

someone. He said, " Ohhhhhhhh " . He never did that again and I knew he really

understood it. was actually trying to be friendly, I think.

In first grade a little girl asked, " Why does hide under his desk in Math? "

I didn't know he was doing that so it was good to find out. This little girl

was so sweet and cute. I just loved her to bits. She liked and wanted to

understand. I said, " He has trouble telling what's around him but under the

desk he can touch everything all the way around and it makes him feel safe. She

said, " Oh " then continued talking and playing with . We were on a field

trip. I usually go on school field trips. VERY valuable for seeing long term

interactions with . I knew things were good because kids would go out of

their way to talk to . " Hi, " , " come look at this! " OMG I had to

fight not to get emotional over it.

Ask for a functional behavioral analysis. FBA. It helps them figure out what

the functions of behaviors are. Then make sure it's a good FBA and that they

know what they're talking about. 's teachers in that really horrible school

in TX thought ALL of 's behavior was to get attention. It wasn't. It was

frustration and fear and confusion and anger. He wanted to avoid difficult

situations, he wanted someone to understand what was going on with him. He was

confused because they were rewarding bad behavior and punishing good. A kid

pushed him in line when I was there one day and , VERY appropriately said,

" Don't push me. " He didn't even say it in an angry way. He was kind of

laughing. The teacher said, " ALEX! NO TALKING IN LINE! " So of course the next

time he'd know not to use words. Pushing back was obviously safer since the

other kid didn't get in trouble! AGG. Another day he used words and was told

" no " when really they could have come up with something more creative like, " you

can't do that but you can do this instead " . Then when he was FREAKING OUT they

took him to the resource room where he could swing on a swing. UMMMM, yeah,

right. Why didn't they OFFER the swing instead of the other activity in the

first place. Really, this was a special ed TEAM LEADER. Did she have so little

idea about these things?! UGH.

Anyway, I've been writing this for about an hour and I really should go do

something else. Sorry for the long long note!

Miriam

>

> Okay, so I am going to an IEP meeting on Monday and decided to check out the

class they are thinking about placing him in because they keep saying he is too

od for preschool (which I donot get. He just turned 5 in August and will be 5

the whole year). Anyway he is extremely smart. Can write his name as well as the

names of others. He can do EVERYTHING on the I can Do It checklist for

kindergarten except read, but he's close to doing that. He is literallly a

genius with numbers!!

>

> Here is my issue. They want to put him in an early childhood class of kids

with autisms...I think on with Aspergers. They are all 3 and 4 years olds. There

will be very little there for him educationally and he will only be with 4 other

kids. They have a very limited schedule...my son will get bored. a couple of the

kids nap the whole afternoon, one for an hour, the other usually sleeps for

30-60 minutes. Levi hasn't taken a nap in 5 years. His little mind is active. He

rests for about 30 minutes in the afternoon when I let him watch tv.

>

> My question is this? Do I allow this for the Iep to get established and

behavioral interventions to get in place, or do I ask for another option? What

so you all think? I just don't feel all warm and fuzzy about this, but I really

don't know what the alternative is, but he definitely needs to be included in a

more normal classroomat some point. He went to preschool last year, undiagnosed,

but the teacher was a natural and we had oll these behovior plans inplace and we

both did the same things ans used the same language and he did well for a good

part of the school year. He really needs a Behavioral intervention plan rather

than just an IEP. Most of his problems are the meltdowns.

>

> Thanks in advance for all you suggestions and advice.

>

> Kelley

>

[Guest guest]

Miriam- That was all great advice, especially about volunteering in the class. It's so nice that you being there during library time and explaining things to the other kids helped your son make friends. I can imagine how you felt when you saw the other kids including on the field trip and in class. Not a big deal to other parents, but to us it is huge. You seem like a great mom, your son is lucky to have you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Suzanne

suzmarkwood@...

From: mimasdprofile <callis4773@...>Subject: ( ) Re: classroom placement for a very smart aspie Date: Sunday, October 25, 2009, 9:26 AM

I think I would accept the placement. It will give them the opportunity to see how he is. They will suffer the natural consequences of the situation if he has meltdowns. The fact that they want to give him services is great. My son was in an early childhood program through kindergarten because the program continued and there were about 10 other kids his age all with a variety of issues. This ECC also brought in typical kids his age as models of developmentally appropriate behavior. Most ECCs that I've encountered do this. I think it's reasonable that he'd do just fine in the regular kindergarten given your previous experiences at preschool but if you jump into it and it's problematic it is my opinion that getting him the right services might be harder. Also, since you're moving him into a public school it might just be a completely different experience for him. I really thought would be okay in a regular classroom for 1st grade.

Actually, he WAS doing well in it, but then we moved to Texas where they demolished his IEP and took away all his support. We left land and went to Texas in the middle of 's first grade year. What a NIGHTMARE. Getting the services back was the biggest fight EVER. If it's really bad you can call another IEP but I believe it's easier to change from a special ed to a typical classroom than the other way around. Well, that's my experience anyway. If the school is good at inclusion then there won't be many special ed classrooms for high functioning kids, but that would be fine. My son is in a regular classroom now and has been for a few years. He has AMAZING services. He has a 1:1 support person (a guy! how cool is that, they always try to place him with male paras) He gets pulled if he's struggling or being disruptive and he gets pulled for speech/social skills. He isn't taking foreign language because that was so stressful he was running

and hiding under the stairs at school to avoid it. The spanish teacher at his school in 5th grade (he's in 7th now) was so RIGID about how assignments were done he couldn't cope. Ask them about the program and why he's going to be the only 5 year old in it. I wouldn't push for him to go to K early even if he's really close to the right age. I was fortunate that my son was born in February so didn't go to K until he was 5.5 years old. They are smart and can do all the academics but are often socially immature. That would leave him in a situation where he might be stigmatized. When my daughter was in K she had a kid in her class who had AS. I was SURE it was asperger syndrome. His mother let them pin a label of Emotionally Disturbed on him. Anyway, one day I was volunteering and helping in the "art center" and the boy was having a meltdown and one of the other kids said, "He's the bad kid." Of course, I made sure I explained that the kid

couldn't help it and that he might have some problem that would cause him not to understand or to be scared. Then I spoke to the guidance counselor about it and she did a classroom thing to try to help the kids understand their classmate. I don't know what happened to him. I think his mom put him in another school. Anyway, it was intensely painful for me to watch because I just KNEW. I could work with the kid when other people couldn't because I just had the right experience. It was all so familiar. I'm sure his self esteem was down the toilet. Poor kid. I hope he's okay.Maybe you could ask to observe the class. Is there just one Early Childhood classroom? Maybe there is one for older kids. Keep me posted on how things go. Tell them about your concerns and ask them how they'll deal with behavior issues and academics. Ask them what they'll do if he has a meltdown. Ask them what they'll do to prepare him for being in a regular classroom.

Ask they why they think he won't do well in their kindergarten and also ask to observe kindergarten.Once he's in school if you can, volunteer in the classroom or in the school in some capacity to see how it's run. You'll see what happens when teachers are in difficult situations and you'll see how the kids behave toward each other. You might get the opportunity to answer questions the kids ask you about your child. This is VERY valuable IMHO. Answer questions without judging how the question was asked unless it's very clearly meant to be rude. One kid asked me, "Why is so annoying." He wasn't trying to be rude, he really wasn't. He was clumsy at expressing himself. So I told him about asperger syndrome. By this time (4th grade I think) knew about his diagnosis and was starting to talk to other people about it. He is starting to be able to advocate for himself now and is also able to help other kids with AS when he sees them struggling

with something that used to be hard for him. Anyway, made a lot of great friends in 3rd, 4th and the beginning of 5th and I know it was partly because I was always there for his library time to talk to the kids and answer their questions and also to help be a better friend to them if I caught him doing something that was rotten but that he really didn't KNOW was rotten. once wrote a story about a boy named Ian. It was a fictional story and he wrote that the kid died. then thought it would be a great idea to show a kid named Ian in his class. It was really HARD for to understand why Ian was angry. Fortunately, I was getting to know Ian's mom and I'd had a conversation with her about Ian having had an appendectomy at the beginning of the year. So when I talked to I told him that Ian might be really scared by the story and mentioned the surgery and really got it. needed something sort of concrete to help him

understand why it would be scary for someone. He said, "Ohhhhhhhh". He never did that again and I knew he really understood it. was actually trying to be friendly, I think.In first grade a little girl asked, "Why does hide under his desk in Math?" I didn't know he was doing that so it was good to find out. This little girl was so sweet and cute. I just loved her to bits. She liked and wanted to understand. I said, "He has trouble telling what's around him but under the desk he can touch everything all the way around and it makes him feel safe. She said, "Oh" then continued talking and playing with . We were on a field trip. I usually go on school field trips. VERY valuable for seeing long term interactions with . I knew things were good because kids would go out of their way to talk to . "Hi, ", " come look at this!" OMG I had to fight not to get emotional over it.Ask for a functional behavioral

analysis. FBA. It helps them figure out what the functions of behaviors are. Then make sure it's a good FBA and that they know what they're talking about. 's teachers in that really horrible school in TX thought ALL of 's behavior was to get attention. It wasn't. It was frustration and fear and confusion and anger. He wanted to avoid difficult situations, he wanted someone to understand what was going on with him. He was confused because they were rewarding bad behavior and punishing good. A kid pushed him in line when I was there one day and , VERY appropriately said, "Don't push me." He didn't even say it in an angry way. He was kind of laughing. The teacher said, "ALEX! NO TALKING IN LINE!" So of course the next time he'd know not to use words. Pushing back was obviously safer since the other kid didn't get in trouble! AGG. Another day he used words and was told "no" when really they could have come up with something more creative like,

"you can't do that but you can do this instead". Then when he was FREAKING OUT they took him to the resource room where he could swing on a swing. UMMMM, yeah, right. Why didn't they OFFER the swing instead of the other activity in the first place. Really, this was a special ed TEAM LEADER. Did she have so little idea about these things?! UGH.Anyway, I've been writing this for about an hour and I really should go do something else. Sorry for the long long note!Miriam>> Okay, so I am going to an IEP meeting on Monday and decided to check out the class they are thinking about placing him in because they keep saying he is too od for preschool (which I donot get. He

just turned 5 in August and will be 5 the whole year). Anyway he is extremely smart. Can write his name as well as the names of others. He can do EVERYTHING on the I can Do It checklist for kindergarten except read, but he's close to doing that. He is literallly a genius with numbers!!> > Here is my issue. They want to put him in an early childhood class of kids with autisms...I think on with Aspergers. They are all 3 and 4 years olds. There will be very little there for him educationally and he will only be with 4 other kids. They have a very limited schedule...my son will get bored. a couple of the kids nap the whole afternoon, one for an hour, the other usually sleeps for 30-60 minutes. Levi hasn't taken a nap in 5 years. His little mind is active. He rests for about 30 minutes in the afternoon when I let him watch tv. > > My question is this? Do I allow this for the Iep to get established and behavioral interventions to

get in place, or do I ask for another option? What so you all think? I just don't feel all warm and fuzzy about this, but I really don't know what the alternative is, but he definitely needs to be included in a more normal classroomat some point. He went to preschool last year, undiagnosed, but the teacher was a natural and we had oll these behovior plans inplace and we both did the same things ans used the same language and he did well for a good part of the school year. He really needs a Behavioral intervention plan rather than just an IEP. Most of his problems are the meltdowns.> > Thanks in advance for all you suggestions and advice.> > Kelley>

[Guest guest]

Well you need the IEP to have a BIP. You want the IEP.

He may need academic accomodations in organizational skills at some point, he

may have issues you are not aware of now.

You just want a less restrictive setting. You can request that.

How often is he having meltdowns at school?

You could request a less restricted setting of

a classroom with an aide in it to implement his BIP.

If the meltdowns are rare or even if they are not. But the

other kids may be distrubed if the meltdowns are frequent

and this may be a reason they will not agree to this. They could say your

child's behavior is impacting other students learning in that

setting.

The meltdowns may decrease in a smaller setting. The problem

is not the small class but it is that it may be at the wrong level

right?

You could also consider medication a very lose of anxiety meds

to see if it calms the meltdowns. If that doesn't work

some people try a very low dose os rispedal for a short period

of time. Just to get thru a developmental period.

I am not sure any public school wants to cope with a child with

frequent meltdowns. I visited many schools in NJ for kids

with behavior issues like this and they had point systems in place

to control behaviors. And when they did meltdown they were asked to leave the

class or pulled out with a special hold. I think if it was

me I would try the medication (we have for our daughter and it helped).

Pam

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I do my best but I have my share of terrible days when I'm impatient

and short tempered and can't think what to do. If I screw up I apologize and

is the first one to say, " That's okay, Mom, everyone makes mistakes. " He's

come a long long way and every year I think has been the best year ever with him

and it just keeps getting better. He's emotionally immature but I see some very

promising things developing that I don't often see in typical kids. He is

starting to be able to help other kids with asperger syndrome who are younger or

who haven't mastered what he has. It's the most amazing thing. He's sensitive

and he cares about other people even if he doesn't always know how to react. He

is drawn to animals and babies and especially baby animals. Kittens and puppies

and chickens and hedgehogs are favorites. He doesn't put up with anyone being

mean to animals or kids and can get very intense about it. He's much more

verbal now than ever before so he uses words to express it and that's something

I just never thought I'd see. WOW. We have whole conversations about things.

He doesn't care how simple an organism is or how small, they are all deserving

of respect so when a kid at the beach smash a mussel on the rocks he shouted,

" You MURDERER! " .

I know it sometimes feels like forever but they do grow and change and learn.

Maturity has made a big difference. Helping feel safe while trying to get

to maturity has been the hard part. Whatever it is we've done with him seems to

have helped. It's really hard to figure out which things really worked. I

sometimes think it's just knowing I'm really TRYING to help him that has

made the difference. He trusts me and comes to me for social skill advice and

he's not embarrassed to ask for help when he needs it. He can say, " I have

asperger syndrome and sometimes that makes it hard for me to understand. " He

can use words to advocate for himself. " I HAVE SENSORY ISSUES! " He said this

with a laugh. I can't remember what was going on. I think it was a birthday

party for him but I can't remember what prompted the exclamation. Anyway, he

can advocate for himself and even have a sense of humor about things.

So, I guess I'm doing okay. LOL. I hope so. Sometimes I think the real horror

is waiting just around the corner but so far that hasn't been the case.

Miriam

> >

> > Okay, so I am going to an IEP meeting on Monday and decided to check out the

class they are thinking about placing him in because they keep saying he is too

od for preschool (which I donot get. He just turned 5 in August and will be 5

the whole year). Anyway he is extremely smart. Can write his name as well as the

names of others. He can do EVERYTHING on the I can Do It checklist for

kindergarten except read, but he's close to doing that. He is literallly a

genius with numbers!!

> >

> > Here is my issue. They want to put him in an early childhood class of kids

with autisms...I think on with Aspergers. They are all 3 and 4 years olds. There

will be very little there for him educationally and he will only be with 4 other

kids. They have a very limited schedule...my son will get bored. a couple of the

kids nap the whole afternoon, one for an hour, the other usually sleeps for

30-60 minutes. Levi hasn't taken a nap in 5 years. His little mind is active. He

rests for about 30 minutes in the afternoon when I let him watch tv.

> >

> > My question is this? Do I allow this for the Iep to get established and

behavioral interventions to get in place, or do I ask for another option? What

so you all think? I just don't feel all warm and fuzzy about this, but I really

don't know what the alternative is, but he definitely needs to be included in a

more normal classroomat some point. He went to preschool last year, undiagnosed,

but the teacher was a natural and we had oll these behovior plans inplace and we

both did the same things ans used the same language and he did well for a good

part of the school year. He really needs a Behavioral intervention plan rather

than just an IEP. Most of his problems are the meltdowns.

> >

> > Thanks in advance for all you suggestions and advice.

> >

> > Kelley

> >

>