new with question

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/8/99 2:38:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,

crystaldaso@... writes:

<< 11/8/99 2:38:32 PM Pacific Standard Time

From: crystaldaso@... (Crystal Daso)

. I just recieved this e-mail

from a lady on one of my lists.. Can anyone tell me how to respond?

Thanks!

Crystal >>

Crystal,

Hello and welcome to the list!Personally I would not bother trying to respond

to this woman.Anyone who claims that vaccines are 100% percent effective and

give immunity all the time to everyone-well we all know she has not done her

homework.Even the CDC sites talk about the need to vaccinate everyone since

there are those that can't be vaccinated,or those whose vaccinations " did not

give effective immunity " .Is rated effectiveness in the vaccine inserts?I

forgot.

I know I read from a pro-vaccine site on one of my " jumping around nights "

from site to site that polio did not cause harm in 90% of the people that

contracted it.So this vaccine was created to protect the 10% who did suffer

serious ill effects from polio.If you want I will see if I can back track and

fine it.I know I posted it somewhere.

Like I said though you are wasting your time,and I would just politely as her

not to email you again.But if you really want to respond I know there is a

slew of info out there to contradict her statements.Just a matter of putting

it all together.

To bad we don't have something already put together to send out as a response

to people like her!Still I would tell her not to email you again.

Sara

[Guest guest]

Hi Crystal! I'm sort of new here too, but thought I'd send this link which

might be good for you to send the person on your other list(though she

sounds like a closed-minded lost cause....)

I hope everyone can read this short article & answer the questions at the

end:

>>Vaccination Contemplation

An informative article regarding infant vaccines,

from one of our forum members. (Be sure to take the polls)

http://babyparenting.about.com/library/weekly/aa110599.htm<<

Cassie & vax-free Corey(8/7/98)

<coreyzmom@...>

<http://www.geocities.com/justusdogs/>

> Hi. My name is Crystal and we have a 5month old `daughter who we

> decided not to vaccinate. I havn't had any trouble with our pedi., it's

> other people who I have had comments from. I just recieved this e-mail

> from a lady on one of my lists.. Can anyone tell me how to respond?

> Thanks!

> Crystal

[Guest guest]

I agree. The woman is a waste of time, " some people you just can't reach " . Do

your research, and make the decisions that you are comfortable with, that's all

anyone can do. Arguing with someone who doesn't know what they are talking about

will only frustrate you - and you're NOT going to change her mind (and that

shouldn't be your goal anyway).

shelby

BTW - welcome Crystal.

Mum2nini@... wrote:

> From: Mum2nini@...

>

> In a message dated 11/8/99 2:38:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> crystaldaso@... writes:

>

> << 11/8/99 2:38:32 PM Pacific Standard Time

> From: crystaldaso@... (Crystal Daso)

> . I just recieved this e-mail

> from a lady on one of my lists.. Can anyone tell me how to respond?

> Thanks!

> Crystal >>

>

> Crystal,

> Hello and welcome to the list!Personally I would not bother trying to respond

> to this woman.Anyone who claims that vaccines are 100% percent effective and

> give immunity all the time to everyone-well we all know she has not done her

> homework.Even the CDC sites talk about the need to vaccinate everyone since

> there are those that can't be vaccinated,or those whose vaccinations " did not

> give effective immunity " .Is rated effectiveness in the vaccine inserts?I

> forgot.

> I know I read from a pro-vaccine site on one of my " jumping around nights "

> from site to site that polio did not cause harm in 90% of the people that

> contracted it.So this vaccine was created to protect the 10% who did suffer

> serious ill effects from polio.If you want I will see if I can back track and

> fine it.I know I posted it somewhere.

>

> Like I said though you are wasting your time,and I would just politely as her

> not to email you again.But if you really want to respond I know there is a

> slew of info out there to contradict her statements.Just a matter of putting

> it all together.

> To bad we don't have something already put together to send out as a response

> to people like her!Still I would tell her not to email you again.

> Sara

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Cassie! yeah, a familiar face thanks for the article, i just

sent that to my list with a message stateing that i was no longer going

to discuss this anymore. it simply isn't worth my time! thanks to

everyone who replyed and sent links, those were GREAT!!!

love,

crystal and hannah

5-26-99

Chubby Cheeks Diapers

http://chubbycheeks.theshoppe.com/index.html (under construction, but

taking orders) We now take Credit Cards!!!!!!!

<br>Come visit Hannah's corner of the web!

http://community.webtv.net/crystaldaso/HannahMariehas NEW PICS!!!!

UPDATED OCT 11,1999

[Guest guest]

She is ignorant of the facts and is just spouting vaccine

beliefs/advertising.

Check out www.whale.to/vaccines.html

The polio piece is a start--that should overheat her mainframe. Also the

smallpox section.

New with question

> From: crystaldaso@... (Crystal Daso)

>

> Hi. My name is Crystal and we have a 5month old `daughter who we

> decided not to vaccinate. I havn't had any trouble with our pedi., it's

> other people who I have had comments from. I just recieved this e-mail

> from a lady on one of my lists.. Can anyone tell me how to respond?

> Thanks!

> Crystal

> <<I reaffirm it that you are not only jeopardizing your baby's health,

> but the health of all the babies around you.

> I think that nowadays it's a big mistake with the possibilities our

> science is giving us to waive vaccines.

> And that is the truth, because there will be no possibility of making

> those illness completely disappear until everybody will vaccine their

> babies. The side effects you mentiones are by far overweighed by the

> innegable benefits of vaccines.

> << Also, according to the whole health organization, the chances are

> about 15 times greater that measles will be contracted by thoses

> vaccinated for them than by those who are not.>>

> Then if you don't vaccinate your kids and they play with kids that are,

> aren't

> you putting them at risk???

> As about Sids is not yet discovered what exactly causes it, and if there

> were cases of that in

> the period after vaccines, that's due because vaccines are done in the

> same period which is more at risk for sids.

> Massive immunizations have been present in Europe for decades Thank God,

> and most dangerous maladies are quite debelled due to it. You talked

> about measles, well this vaccine is not obligatory yet, but very well

> suggested, so until it will be compulsory for all the parents, we will

> still see this illness around.

> You seem to forget that before Sabin created the polio vaccines the

> percentage of people (and I still can see some of them, half paralyzed

> or lame) who carried permanently the signs of this terrible disease was

> about the 15-20%, and most of them died as children. We rarely see now a

> baby dieing or being permanently handicapped because of poliomelitis,

> thanks to vaccines.

> I don't know where you have read that you can still not be immune after

> the immunization, this is a complete nonsense, actually the vaccines are

> definitive and scientifically proven that they give a TOTAL immunization

> for the disease, due to the reaction of the antibodies.

> <<<<You hardly heard of Artritis, diabetes, cancer...until

> vaccinations.>>>

> Total bull. Arthritis has been around a very long time and cancer shows

> up in

> tribes in Africa who are not vaccinated. I think it is environment

> related. We kill the planet it strikes back. Just an opinion. But

> artritis, cancer, diabetes, have nothing to do with vaccines, they

> always

> existed. Many many years ago, it was common to hear when someone died

> " why is he died? some bad illness... don't know " , and they really didn't

> know, now we have given a name to those, but that doesn't mean that they

> didn't exist before.

> They are even studying a vaccine for AIDS, and I really hope that they

> will find it.

> You thought I was criticizing you? Yes I am, and I have no fear of

> telling you that only a fool can waive to the possibilities that

> medecine and science give to us to reduce the risks of terrible

> diseases. BEING CONVINCED of doing the best for your baby and DOING

> really what's the best are two very different things.

> There are also people who for religious reason refuse to make a

> transfusion to their baby even if it means to save his life. Of course

> they must be thinking they are acting for his best, but are they

> really??? I really wish your daughter to be so very lucky, and healthy,

> God forbid you would have to

> regret anything.

> I was really worried, that's why I sounded harsh, not mean, nasty or

> rude, just harsh.>>

>

> Chubby Cheeks Diapers

> http://chubbycheeks.theshoppe.com/index.html (under construction, but

> taking orders) We now take Credit Cards!!!!!!!

> <br>Come visit Hannah's corner of the web!

> http://community.webtv.net/crystaldaso/HannahMariehas NEW PICS!!!!

> UPDATED OCT 11,1999

>

> >

[Guest guest]

> From: " Linn " linnmiller@...

>On Jun 4, 2006, at 2:36 PM, Skipper Beers wrote:

>Skipper,

> Thanks for all the info. Her endo is looking for Hashimoto's

>(spelling?), approximately 25% of juvenile diabetics have some other

>type of autoimmune disease also, with thyroid being the largest

>percentage. He said that her body is attacking her thyroid in the

>same fashion that it did the pancreas. She has had an enlarged

>thyroid for close to 1 1/2 years, diabetes was diagnosed 2 years

>ago. He has been surprised that the disease hasn't fully developed

>yet and keeps telling us that it will.

First, let's discuss the enlarged thyroid.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=goiter

goiter

n : abnormally enlarged thyroid gland; can result from under-production or

over-production of hormone or from a deficiency of iodine in the diet [syn:

goitre, struma, thyromegaly]

****************************

You used the term " enlarged thyroid. " This means she has a goiter, as you

see the definition above. Classic symptoms include choking awake, food

getting stuck in the throat, and sometimes restricted breathing. This can

be a real problem. ON too low a dose of ARmour Thyroid, I had these

symptoms which my doctor kept saying, " It can't possibly be your thyroid,

your numbers are fine. " After a sleep study from choking awake, something I

had been glad to do because it explained a lot, the CPAP forced breathing

machine still didn't help the sleep apnea this had caused. So, out of

desperation, I increased my Armour up to 3 grains, and I slept all night

through for the first night in a very long time, and food stopped getting

stuck in my throat.

I didn't have a goiter as on ultrasound my thyroid had been called " small to

normal " , but it was still large enough to constrict my breathing

particularly at night, and cause food to get stuck in my upper throat. (If

I ate cheese popcorn, it would stick there and stay for weeks.)

It's very likely the goiter is caused by TSH. You see, if your thyroid

produces any TSH at all it is asking for more thyroid hormone, and the

thyroid has to try to keep up. When it can't, it swells. My thyroid doc

said this is part of the mechanism for thyroid cancer when it goes on for

too long.

If someone has a goiter, how can they not have a thyroid problem?

A lot of doctors don't care what happens as long as TSH is in normal limits.

(That is where 95.5% of the population falls. Median TSH is 1.5, and

there are other important things like T4, T3, and symptoms to look at before

saying one is not hypo. MOst doctors fail to consider these.)

There are a few ways to lower the antibodies.

*Giving thyroid medication

*Ensuring adequate iodine intake, especiall if you live in the historic

" goiter belt. "

*Ensuring adequate selenium intake (which also tends to be low in the goiter

belt.)

*For those with low adrenals. corticosteroids in some cases will lower the

antibodies.

All of the above have lowered antibodies at different times. They aren't

always the solution, but sometimes they are. But, doctors don't spend much

time trying to lower antibodies they just wait to see the thyroid destroyed,

and then at some point when your practically an invalid, they say " let's put

you on thyroid medication now that your thyroid's so damaged. "

I would say if the thyroid is swelling, you know you want to stop this so

you get her on thyroid medication, and the sooner the better. It's not just

the antibodies you want to stop, but the swelling of the thyroid. And

that's easy to do. The longer you wait, the less chance you have it'll

shrink back to normal.

He, of course, thinks that I

>am nuts regarding the soybean issue and told me that it wouldn't do

>any good.

Of course he thinks you're nuts. The soybean industry puts out good money

to tell people it's a healthy food. Do much research you find it's mostly a

lie.

I told him that it wasn't good for her period, so just

>diet wise it was best to avoid it. She will have another test in a

>couple of months so we shall see if makes any difference at all. I

>figure anything we can do to avoid damaging the thyroid, I'm willing

>to give a try. It really didn't sit well with me that they are so

>nonchalant about it, basically that's there's no way to stop it.

I can't guarantee it can be stopped, but has been in some cases. How large

is he going to let the goiter grow before he does anything about it? I've

seen pictures showing them quite enormous.

> My foot surgery was for a neuroma that I tried many other options to

>correct that did not work. I was taking Armour for about 8 months

>but had to quit as it caused some severe arrhythmias. They started

>after about 4 months, just occasionally and then got progressively

>worse. I think maybe it happened because I was able to normalize my

>progesterone and estrogen levels which may have alleviated some of

>what was showing up as thyroid symptoms. I'm just guessing, but the

>arrhythmias were pretty scary.

There could be more behind the arrhythmias then the Armour. Many of us are

low in magnesium. Armour makes our heart beat with more strength, so in

some cases we just feel problems that were already there. CoQ10 is real

good for the heart, and if you happen to be on statins, they deplete CoQ10,

which could probably cause the arrythmia or even a heart attack.

There are other medications that cause arrhythmias (Claritin, for example.)

I assume your talking about natural HRT replacement as the synthetic

estrogen / progesterone is pretty bad stuff.

Skipper

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Skipper,

Thanks again for all the info. Regarding the enlarged thyroid I had

read recently about starting treatment for Hashimoto's before it gets

full blown. I will definitely bring that to the doctor's attention.

Her doctor just retired so she will be seeing a younger partner now.

I am trying to find a ND for her but no luck so far. I'll have to

pull out her last test results to see what her T4 and T3 were. They

keep an eye on adrenal function as 's disease is also

prominent with Type 1's, so far no problems. I did the tummy test

with painting iodine on her which disappeared within about 6 hours,

but then I read some of the posts which I thought said that wasn't a

good indicator. I need to take the time to read all the files here.

I don't usually have trouble following most ideas but there is some

pretty involved info here. I have trouble keeping up with you all.

I have read tons about soybeans and was mortified when I realized

how much she was eating. For instance there is even soybean oil in

kid's yogurt, go figure. My daughter has just learned to read well

and is always looking at every label now to see if she can have it or

not.

For myself, I did have to supplement the magnesium and have

continued that. I also had the problem of my heart beating very

hard while on the Armour which was unnerving occasionally. I try to

stay away from any kind of sinus or cold meds, causes me blood

pressure problems. Normally my BP is fine, but if I take

decongestants it shoots up. I was taking CoQ10 while on the Armour

but quit for maybe 3 months and am back on it now after having

vitamin levels checked.

Definitely talking bio-identical progesterone, it saved me from

having a hysterectomy. Fortunately for me, I have never been able

to withstand the side effects of synthetic hormones so I've had very

little exposure.

Thanks so much for all the info.

Linn

On Jun 5, 2006, at 8:23 PM, Skipper Beers wrote:

>

>

>> From: " Linn " linnmiller@...

>

>> On Jun 4, 2006, at 2:36 PM, Skipper Beers wrote:

>

>> Skipper,

>> Thanks for all the info. Her endo is looking for Hashimoto's

>> (spelling?), approximately 25% of juvenile diabetics have some other

>> type of autoimmune disease also, with thyroid being the largest

>> percentage. He said that her body is attacking her thyroid in the

>> same fashion that it did the pancreas. She has had an enlarged

>> thyroid for close to 1 1/2 years, diabetes was diagnosed 2 years

>> ago. He has been surprised that the disease hasn't fully developed

>> yet and keeps telling us that it will.

>

> First, let's discuss the enlarged thyroid.

>

[Guest guest]

Posted by: " Linn " linnmiller@... mlknkh

Skipper,

>Thanks again for all the info. Regarding the enlarged thyroid I had

>read recently about starting treatment for Hashimoto's before it gets

>full blown.

Does that mean before the destruction is full blown? Is that kind of like

waiting to treat diabetes until after your foot is amputated or you go

blind?

>I will definitely bring that to the doctor's attention. Her doctor just

>retired so she will be seeing a >younger partner now.

Some young ones are flexible. Most are well entrenched in drug company

propoganda. Our doctors believe their trainers, mostly financed by the drug

companies. The Oil company exec recently came out and said his companies

job was all about increasing value for the shareholders. Do you think the

drug companies job is really any different?

>I am trying to find a ND for her but no luck so far. I'll have to

>pull out her last test results to see what her T4 and T3 were. They

>keep an eye on adrenal function as 's disease is also

>prominent with Type 1's, so far no problems.

's Disease can cause frequent urination. Is that why that's a

symptom of diabetes? (I had low adrenals not bad enough for most doctors to

diagnose. Yet, I had the frequent urination symptom and had it for ten

years before going on hydrocortisone, and then it went away.) I'm not

diabetic, just have cortisol levels lower than they should be, but too high

for a normal doctor to diagnose, and I'm hypothyroid.

>For myself, I did have to supplement the magnesium and have

>continued that. I also had the problem of my heart beating very

>hard while on the Armour which was unnerving occasionally.

Especially when you first start, as it's likely your heart wasn't strong

enough before to do its job. In the hypothyroid person, the blood volume

decreases and the blood vessels constrct in the skin, and hands, and feet to

preserve core function, otherwise the heart doesn't have strength to

maintain blood pressure.

Skipper

__

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[Guest guest]

Skipper, I don't know the answer to treating Hashimoto's early or to the standard protocol.  I am interested in preventing it if possible.  I have 4 children, 2 of them girls who have both exhibited autoimmune tendencies.  I am of the opinion that there are things that can be done to help prevent those tendencies.  That's why I was interested in this group.   I am well versed in how the medical industry works, much more so than most.  I spent several months living at one of the premier children's hospitals in this country with my older daughter who had Aplastic Anemia and got a up close look at how medical facilities operate.  I would not have anything good to say about how the medical industry functions.  I do not have any problem questioning my daughter's doctors or expressing myself regarding her treatment.  I am however, for now, stuck with having to deal with allopathic doctor's in her case.  Juvenile diabetes can turn into a life threatening situation very quickly due to viral infections or the flu for example.  We do as much as we can naturally, in particular, great care with her diet, but are absolutely dependent on insulin, which she obviously cannot do without.  I've found that if a doctor knows I am well versed or done the research they are willing to try what I ask or investigate further.  If not I have learned to just stand my ground.  Treating Type 1 diabetes and Type 2 diabetes are two wholly different situations.  You could have Type 2 for many, many years, and not even know it, sometimes without much damage.  Type 1 is an acute onset from which one would die without intervention very quickly.  I am assuming that there could be many differences between being hypothyroid and having Hasimoto's, that I have just recently been introduced to.   I don't know about the frequency of urination in 's.  In Type 1 diabetes it depends on whether it's a crisis situation.  What most people call frequent urination is not the same thing as what a Type 1 diabetic experiencing ketones would be.  That sort of frequent urination is literally not being able to leave the house.  It can be every 5 minutes or less when ketones set in and literally uncontrollable if it turns into ketoacidosis. My symptoms on Armour didn't develop at first, it was after being on it for about 5 - 6 months.  I am also interested in using iodine basically instead of Armour.  It seems to me that it would be a first line treatment before going to the thyroid meds to see if that works instead.  I tend to prefer the least amount of intervention.Linn             On Jun 7, 2006, at 10:51 AM, Skipper Beers wrote:Posted by: "Linn " linnmillerentouchonline (DOT) net mlknkhSkipper,>Thanks again for all the info. Regarding the enlarged thyroid I had>read recently about starting treatment for Hashimoto's before it gets>full blown.Does that mean before the destruction is full blown? Is that kind of like waiting to treat diabetes until after your foot is amputated or you go blind?

[Guest guest]

Hi, Tori. I understand your fear about the daycare situation. Rest assured, your

child will be better off than the vaccinated kids because his immune system will

be in better shape to deal with any diseases/colds, etc.

It's not a vaccine issue you need to worry about but exposure to diseases. Try

to keep him away from crowds as long as possible and then be ready to deal with

any bugs that come along. But don't worry that not vaxing puts your child at a

disadvantage. It's quite the opposite. You are doing a wonderful thing for your

son by researching this now.

Winnie

New with question

Vaccinations

> Hi All, I kinda introduced myself last week. I am 26 weeks

> pregnant and

> I am trying to research the whole vaccination issue now. I did a

> lot of

> research on vaccines with my dogs and they are no longer

> vaccinated and

> I will never be vaccinated again but this little boy inside me

> wasn't

> exactly planned so I never researched the whole infant/child

> vaccine

> issue until now.

> I am almost half way through " Vaccine Safety Manual For

> Concern... " per

> the groups suggestions.

>

> Right now my biggest fear is what will happen to my boy when he

> is

> unvaccinated and in daycare being exposed to infants that are

> getting

> their 2,4,and 6 month vaccinations? Can anyone explain the risks

> involved here? As much as I hate the thought of daycare and it

> makes me

> want to cry just thinking about it, my son will have to be in

> daycare

> by 3 or maybe 6 months of age if I am lucky.

> I cheated and kinda skimmed through the rest of the book and it

> doesn't

> seem like this issue is addressed.

>

> Also, doesn't anyone else have a significant other that isn't on

> the

> same page? My husband thinks I am a bit overboard. He brought 2

> dogs

> into our relationship and brought 3. Mine are not vaccinated and

> are

> fed raw, his are vaccinated and fed kibble. I know I can talk to

> him

> about holding off for awhile but I am not sure I can confince

> him to

> not vaccinate at all. Any suggestions?

>

> Thanks again!

> Tori

>

>

> > > > Hi all,

> > > > Just added 22 new members (I'm still traveling until the 25th)

> > > >

> > > > Welcome to all

> > > >

> > > > Please introduce yourselves and ask questions!

> > > >

> > > > Sheri

> > > > listowner

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Winnie is right. My daughter goes to daycare and doesn't get sick at all.

Initially she picked up a bit of a sniffle here and there, but not any more.

She has never been vaccinated, so her body has been able to develop a strong

natural defence. If she does pick anything up at all, it just causes her immune

system to become stronger. Then the next time she is exposed, there is no

illness. Personally, I prefer prevention rather than cure. This means that I

choose to live a healthy lifestyle, and avoid as much as I can of our toxic

environment. We don't vaccinate, don't drink water from a town water supply,

don't buy food with additives, don't use toxic bug sprays. The list goes on.

Of course it is almost impossible to avoid everything. And there are times when

some food additives may sneak into our diet etc. But we have no need for

doctors. NOBODY gets sick enough. I don't consider the odd runny nose sick.

Fieldman

New with question

Vaccinations

> Hi All, I kinda introduced myself last week. I am 26 weeks

> pregnant and

> I am trying to research the whole vaccination issue now. I did a

> lot of

> research on vaccines with my dogs and they are no longer

> vaccinated and

> I will never be vaccinated again but this little boy inside me

> wasn't

> exactly planned so I never researched the whole infant/child

> vaccine

> issue until now.

> I am almost half way through " Vaccine Safety Manual For

> Concern... " per

> the groups suggestions.

>

> Right now my biggest fear is what will happen to my boy when he

> is

> unvaccinated and in daycare being exposed to infants that are

> getting

> their 2,4,and 6 month vaccinations? Can anyone explain the risks

> involved here? As much as I hate the thought of daycare and it

> makes me

> want to cry just thinking about it, my son will have to be in

> daycare

> by 3 or maybe 6 months of age if I am lucky.

> I cheated and kinda skimmed through the rest of the book and it

> doesn't

> seem like this issue is addressed.

>

> Also, doesn't anyone else have a significant other that isn't on

> the

> same page? My husband thinks I am a bit overboard. He brought 2

> dogs

> into our relationship and brought 3. Mine are not vaccinated and

> are

> fed raw, his are vaccinated and fed kibble. I know I can talk to

> him

> about holding off for awhile but I am not sure I can confince

> him to

> not vaccinate at all. Any suggestions?

>

> Thanks again!

> Tori

>

>

> > > > Hi all,

> > > > Just added 22 new members (I'm still traveling until the 25th)

> > > >

> > > > Welcome to all

> > > >

> > > > Please introduce yourselves and ask questions!

> > > >

> > > > Sheri

> > > > listowner

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Tori, I have two children in daycare, aged 1 and 2. My oldest was in there at

about the age of 3 months a couple days a week, and my youngest, I kept her out

as long as possible given her size (she was a premie), she went in at about 6

months. Both have been there for 1 - 1 1/2 years and are fine (they attend full

time 4 days a week now). They're around both vacc'd and unvacc'd kids. Your kids

will be around other kids all the time (most you can count on will be vacc'd)

it's not just a daycare setting, it's any and everywhere. I wouldn't freak out

about it - I don't anyway. If they get a disease, they get a disease, and I'll

just deal with it - no biggie. They do however get the coughs, runny noses etc..

quite frequently - but they're around other kids all the time that are germ

factories... it's really not a big deal though, IMO.

[Guest guest]

Thanks guys, I am getting more and more worried and confused reading than I

think I was before!! I think my biggest issue is my husband not being onboard,

and if the baby did get sick, from the vaccine or from not being vaccinated and

around vacc'd kids, I would never forgive myself. i feel rather damned if i do

and damned if I don't...

Not to mention my friend that is a nurse just scared me crap outta me with an

email telling me all the complications involved in mumps, measles, and not

getting the vitamin K shot which is another thing I am debating on... I know

this is going to sound wimpy but I wish I had someone on my side. Dr, husband,

sister, mother, etc.... someone!

This is such an important decision and I hate making it alone.

 

The other thing is the book I am reading has this insain numbers on autism that

I can not find anywhere else. like 1 in 67 boys? that seems high. I finda feel

like this book is fear mongering against vaccines... I wish I could find

something alittle bit more down the middle of the road so I can make an informed

decision that way. Right now everyhting is so black and white.

 

Thanks for all the support. Not sure I am as strong as the rest of you:(

 

Tori

[Guest guest]

<Not sure I am as strong as the rest of you>

Tori,

You have gotten excellent advice from the wonderful (and so experienced) parents

on this list.  The only thing I can add is for you to read, read, read...

Knowledge is power!!   Unbiased information (not from CDC, FDA or a Dr/Nurse who

are part of the problem (with a few exceptions of course!)) is what will break

you free from the paralizing fear you are experiencing.  Your nurse friend (with

all due respect) is part of the problem so you can expect her to say nothing

less than that you are being a neglectful parent by not following the " herd " . 

Yes, there is a lot of information out there and it can be overwhelming, but

look at the source.  Follow the money.  Who has to more to gain by lying to us

about vaccines and their efficacy???  Who would stand to loose the most if

everyone wised up to the crimes being committed against our children and

humanity in the name of health and science?.  To me its a simple answer.  As Jim

stated on another post, your child depends on you... you are his/her voice.  And

while it would be great if you had someone close supporting your decision, it

does not take away from the fact that (either way)  your child depends on YOU 

to research and become informed now that you have been exposed to this

issue.  . 

I wish clarity in researching this info. and coming to a decision that will

benefit your child not only now but in the years to come.

ari

 

Arianna Mojica-   (UCC 1-207/1-103) 

~~~ " All rights not demanded are presumed waived " . ~ Thurston

Re:New with question

Thanks guys, I am getting more and more worried and confused reading than I

think I was before!! I think my biggest issue is my husband not being onboard,

and if the baby did get sick, from the vaccine or from not being vaccinated and

around vacc'd kids, I would never forgive myself. i feel rather damned if i do

and damned if I don't...

Not to mention my friend that is a nurse just scared me crap outta me with an

email telling me all the complications involved in mumps, measles, and not

getting the vitamin K shot which is another thing I am debating on... I know

this is going to sound wimpy but I wish I had someone on my side. Dr, husband,

sister, mother, etc.... someone!

This is such an important decision and I hate making it alone.

 

The other thing is the book I am reading has this insain numbers on autism that

I can not find anywhere else. like 1 in 67 boys? that seems high. I finda feel

like this book is fear mongering against vaccines... I wish I could find

something alittle bit more down the middle of the road so I can make an informed

decision that way. Right now everyhting is so black and white.

 

Thanks for all the support.

 

Tori

[Guest guest]

Tori,

Once you wade through all the info and put two and two together, you will

hopefully see that it really is black and white. If you want middle of the road,

then you want to feel good about making a choice that you don't fully believe is

right.

Not criticizing here--just trying to help put it in perspective, having gone

through this whole process you are now going through and seeing my old thoughts

reflected in yours. I truly do not believe there is a compromise approach

regarding vaccines. They're dangerous and they don't work. The evidence is all

around us in the form of unhealthy children riddled with horrible allergies,

asthma, cancers, and behavior/learning problems--and those are the ones who

lived. It's not normal and the " experts " just can't seem to figure it out.

So parents have to be the detectives. Keep reading. It will become clear to you

soon enough.

Winnie

Re:New with question

Vaccinations

> Thanks guys, I am getting more and more worried and confused

> reading than I think I was before!! I think my biggest issue is

> my husband not being onboard, and if the baby did get sick, from

> the vaccine or from not being vaccinated and around vacc'd kids,

> I would never forgive myself. i feel rather damned if i do and

> damned if I don't...

> Not to mention my friend that is a nurse just scared me crap

> outta me with an email telling me all the complications involved

> in mumps, measles, and not getting the vitamin K shot which is

> another thing I am debating on... I know this is going to sound

> wimpy but I wish I had someone on my side. Dr, husband, sister,

> mother, etc.... someone!

> This is such an important decision and I hate making it alone.

>

> The other thing is the book I am reading has this insain numbers

> on autism that I can not find anywhere else. like 1 in 67 boys?

> that seems high. I finda feel like this book is fear mongering

> against vaccines... I wish I could find something alittle bit

> more down the middle of the road so I can make an informed

> decision that way. Right now everyhting is so black and white.

>

> Thanks for all the support. Not sure I am as strong as the rest

> of you:(

>

> Tori

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tori --

I started writing on your thread the other day, but I'm not sure if I

ever posted it!

The numbers you are seeing with regards to autism are correct. I have

been a behavioral consultant for families with children with autism

for 13 years. When I started, the numbers being reported were about 1

in 12,000 to 1 in 15,000. Now it is 1 in 150, but 1 in 67 for boys. I

have many clients who have shown me pictures of their babes before and

after vaccinations, and it is incredible.

My hubby wasn't completely on board when we knew we were going to have

our daughter, who is now 6. He did know about autism and the early

correlations people were making years ago (because of my job), but he

didn't feel that was " enough " of a reason. So he did some reading and

became increasingly interested on his own. He has wavering moments,

just as others on the list were mentioning earlier this week or last

week. I think that is only to be expected with the inundation of info

we get all the time about everything! But that forces us to recheck

and update our research, which is only a good thing. Fortunately, my

dad is very anti-medicine, so I had him on my side from the start. But

nobody else in our family is supportive. And a tiny fraction of our

friends are supportive, but none of them have made the same decision.

So you are not alone in being alone -- but please keep coming to all

of us and we will help to build you up!

Jen L.

[Guest guest]

Hi my name is Dawn and I have a daughter who I think may have Aspergers. Her

name is and we have always believed something is not right with her. I am

going to give her symptoms and please tell me if it sounds like this could be

the case. has a hard time learning in school, she can do time

multiplication, but not addition, she does not understand normal things. She

can memorize and remembers everything like when a certian tv show is on or if I

tell her what we are having for dinner a week from now. Food is very important

to her as is teen superstars.

she does not socialize with people, but wants to be popular with the kids at

school. She will hear swear words and then use them at home. The only thing

that makes her different from what I have been reading about aupergers is that

she seems to control herself. She never shows emotion at school or even in

public, only at home where she feels compfortable. She really does not talk to

her married sister anymore when she visits. I am basically the only person she

talks to, but will not share her feelings. Thanks for readind this and I

welcome any feed back.

Thank You,

Dawn