Lying

October 5, 2000

Adrienne,

I will agree with you on one point. I DO find lying about vaccination

exemptions objectionable and I'm in a quandary of sorts. If I lie, am I taking

God's chance away to show right? If I don't, will my children suffer? I

apologize if I came down hard on you or this subject. This is very personal for

me. I don't know how many can imagine how it feels to watch your child being

taken away by the child's other parent for " visitation " knowing they're on

their way to the doctor's office to be vaccinated. I don't know how many of you

know the feeling of total despair and defeat of losing in a vaccine court

battle. I pray everyday God won't allow my children to be vaccinated and I

also pray he won't allow them go get sick with anything that can be, and I

QUOTE " prevented by vaccines. " I can't afford to have him say see, I told you

so even thgough I think we could handle most any of the diseases

homeopathically. I've found a descent doctor whose a homeopathic and is very

knowledgeable in Chinese medicine whose ALSO covered on our insurance. So

again, understand I'm coming from a place of experience and some anger at the

atrocities and crimes, if you will against children.

Adrienne wrote:

> I respect everyone's concern and appreciate that people are trying to be

> helpful. I'm not going to give any further comments than the posts I have

> already given. I am not going to vaccinate my child, and I am not going to

> lie. I have written several clarifying posts, but my intentions don't seem

> to be any clearer to those who don't find lying about vaccination

> exemptions objectionable. So, while this topic may continue, I am not

> going to participate in it any longer.

>

> Adrienne

>

October 18, 2000

I look at this way, we are being lied to about the safety and effectiveness

of vaccines, so it doesn't bother me that anyone would " lie " in order to use

a religious exemption, if that is the only type of exemption they have any

hopes of getting. I would do whatever it takes to protect my children.

Jax Fl (Mandarin)

>From: Carlson <ckcarlson@...>

>Reply-Vaccinationsegroups

>vaccinationsegroups

>Subject: Re: lying

>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:46:21 -0700

>

>Adrienne, We do not have the personal exemption in our state of Texas.

>What would you do if that were the case where you live? C.

>

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October 18, 2000

At 11:46 AM 10/18/00 -0700, you wrote:

>Adrienne, We do not have the personal exemption in our state of Texas.

>What would you do if that were the case where you live? C.

That's a good question. Since this is only an issue for schooling, and I

would home school before public schooling, then that is what I would

do. If our best option is Catholic school, as it is here, I would have a

lot of thinking to do. However, after reading through the Moral Conscience

and thinking a lot about this topic, I realize that although the Catholic

Church does not have a formal statement against vaccinations, the Moral

Conscience allows the individual to use a religious exemption because it is

against my moral conscience to put harmful substances into my or my child's

body, and therefore against my religion. I would argue this with the

school principal, associated parish pastor and diocese bishop. If they

still would not allow my child to enter school, then I would home school.

Adrienne

October 18, 2000

Adrienne, We do not have the personal exemption in our state of Texas.

What would you do if that were the case where you live? C.

October 19, 2000

I respect everyone's concern and appreciate that people are trying to be

helpful. I'm not going to give any further comments than the posts I have

already given. I am not going to vaccinate my child, and I am not going to

lie. I have written several clarifying posts, but my intentions don't seem

to be any clearer to those who don't find lying about vaccination

exemptions objectionable. So, while this topic may continue, I am not

going to participate in it any longer.

Adrienne

October 19, 2000

With all due respect to others' beliefs and values, I find it interesting that

many people find it a moral dilemma whether or not they should lie in order to

protect their children's health, especially when most parents in this culture

don't think twice about lying about such things as Santa Claus, to our children,

for many years. While I do believe in the power of myth and fairy stories and

fostering a sense of imagination and " suspension of disbelief " in children, I

can't believe that people wouldn't think twice about misleading their children

for many years (and sometimes this results in deep disappointment at finding out

the truth or ridicule by peers), but have a hard time justifying lying about our

reasons for not injecting toxic substances into our children's bodies. Just an

observation - I don't mean to offend anyone.

October 19, 2000

Just to clarify MY post on the topic, I was not responding to any one person's

opinion in particular, and I absolutely did not mean to offend anyone. I was

just making an observation based on the fact that there have been many posts on

this topic over the last few days.

Adrienne wrote:

> I respect everyone's concern and appreciate that people are trying to be

> helpful. I'm not going to give any further comments than the posts I have

> already given. I am not going to vaccinate my child, and I am not going to

> lie. I have written several clarifying posts, but my intentions don't seem

> to be any clearer to those who don't find lying about vaccination

> exemptions objectionable. So, while this topic may continue, I am not

> going to participate in it any longer.

>

> Adrienne

>

October 19, 2000

Ditto. Megaditto.

>With all due respect to others' beliefs and values, I find it interesting that

>many people find it a moral dilemma whether or not they should lie in order to

>protect their children's health, especially when most parents in this culture

>don't think twice about lying about such things as Santa Claus, to our

children,

>for many years. While I do believe in the power of myth and fairy stories and

>fostering a sense of imagination and " suspension of disbelief " in children, I

>can't believe that people wouldn't think twice about misleading their children

>for many years (and sometimes this results in deep disappointment at

finding out

>the truth or ridicule by peers), but have a hard time justifying lying

about our

>reasons for not injecting toxic substances into our children's bodies. Just an

>observation - I don't mean to offend anyone.

>

Not only are the substances toxic, they cause PERMANENT life long damage,

retardation, epilepsy, autism, asthma, allergies,diabetes.....and death.

Lifelong atopy.

October 19, 2000

We do not lie to our son about Santa Clause because if I lead him to believe

Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy are real how is he going to believe in

Jesus or God when I tell him about them? This is really getting off-topic.

Just wanted you to know there are those of us out here who take parenting

very serious.

I don't think parents should have to lie to anyone. After all our children

belong to us, if it meant putting my son in hiding to protect him, that is

what I would do. I don't think we should take after our government and the

politicians and lie to get them off our back. I will stand and fight like a

tiger where my son is concerned, just many parents on this list have stated

they would do.

Annette

" To entrust the government with the power of determining the education which

our children receive is entrusting our servant with the power to be our

master. " ~ Nasaw

Re: Re: lying

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

X-RCPT-TO: <Annette@...>

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Status: U

<tt>

With all due respect to others' beliefs and values, I find it interesting

that

many people find it a moral dilemma whether or not they should lie in order

to

protect their children's health, especially when most parents in this

culture

don't think twice about lying about such things as Santa Claus, to our

children,

for many years. & nbsp; While I do believe in the power of myth and fairy

stories and

fostering a sense of imagination and & quot;suspension of disbelief & quot; in

children, I

can't believe that people wouldn't think twice about misleading their

children

for many years (and sometimes this results in deep disappointment at finding

out

the truth or ridicule by peers), but have a hard time justifying lying about

our

reasons for not injecting toxic substances into our children's bodies. & nbsp;

Just an

observation - I don't mean to offend anyone.

</tt>

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October 22, 2000

What if the police came to your home (like they did in Scotland) to

vaccinate your child?

Would you go to prison for not vaccinating?

At 08:08 PM 10/19/00 -0700, you wrote:

>We do not lie to our son about Santa Clause because if I lead him to believe

>Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy are real how is he going to believe in

>Jesus or God when I tell him about them? This is really getting off-topic.

>Just wanted you to know there are those of us out here who take parenting

>very serious.

>

>I don't think parents should have to lie to anyone. After all our children

>belong to us, if it meant putting my son in hiding to protect him, that is

>what I would do. I don't think we should take after our government and the

>politicians and lie to get them off our back. I will stand and fight like a

>tiger where my son is concerned, just many parents on this list have stated

>they would do.

>

>>

October 23, 2000

I have a network in place to ensure my son's safety. If at anytime I feel he is in danger of being taken from my home he will be taken away and placed into hiding. If I could find no other way, yes I'm willing to go to prison to avoid vaccination. It's better than the alternative.

With all the CPS nappings I've read about in the past year, every family should have a plan to protect their children. Thousands of children are being taken away from loving parents....Parents are being jailed falsely, if we do not prepare ourselves and our children we could end up fighting the same losing battles.

Annette

"To entrust the government with the power of determining the education whichour children receive is entrusting our servant with the power to be ourmaster." ~ Nasaw

-----Original Message-----From: [mailto:moira@...]Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 11:03 AMVaccinationsegroupsSubject: Re: RE: lyingWhat if the police came to your home (like they did in Scotland) tovaccinate your child?Would you go to prison for not vaccinating?At 08:08 PM 10/19/00 -0700, you wrote:>We do not lie to our son about Santa Clause because if I lead him to believe>Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy are real how is he going to believe in>Jesus or God when I tell him about them? This is really getting off-topic.>Just wanted you to know there are those of us out here who take parenting>very serious.>>I don't think parents should have to lie to anyone. After all our children>belong to us, if it meant putting my son in hiding to protect him, that is>what I would do. I don't think we should take after our government and the>politicians and lie to get them off our back. I will stand and fight like a>tiger where my son is concerned, just many parents on this list have stated>they would do.>>>

October 23, 2000

----- Re: RE: lying

>

> What if the police came to your home (like they did in Scotland) to

> vaccinate your child?

>

> Would you go to prison for not vaccinating?

>

> At 08:08 PM 10/19/00 -0700, you wrote:

> >We do not lie to our son about Santa Clause because if I lead him to

>believe

> >Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy are real how is he going to believe in

> >Jesus or God when I tell him about them? This is really getting

>off-topic.

> >Just wanted you to know there are those of us out here who take parenting

> >very serious.

> >

> >I don't think parents should have to lie to anyone. After all our

>children

> >belong to us, if it meant putting my son in hiding to protect him, that

>is

> >what I would do. I don't think we should take after our government and

>the

> >politicians and lie to get them off our back. I will stand and fight

>like a

> >tiger where my son is concerned, just many parents on this list have

>stated

> >they would do.

> >

> >>

>

> eGroups Sponsor

>

January 18, 2005

doesn't lie. It's like she doesn'y get it. I think she would have to understand what lying would get her and she doesn't.

Carolrabecca_whalen <rabeccawhalen@...> wrote:

Mandy,I really liked how this article presented the topic! Tyler still doesn't lie outright, but he has just recently tried to start manipulating the facts... unsuccessfully, but perhaps it is a milestone!~laughing~Rabecca> > > >> Dana,> > > >>> > > >> My 12 y/o aspie lies constantly.....when did you notice that > > trait?> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> Unfortunately my son is not a typical Aspie, because he > lies> > > >> constantly to me.> > > >> > > > > > It is of course a myth that those with ASD cannot/do not tell > lies > > (along > > > with the myths that they don't have emotion or don't have a sense > > of > > > humour). It may take them a while to cotton on to the fact that > it > > is > > > possible (and so it is in a strange kind of way something > > to 'celebrate' > > > because it means they are developing), and

their motivation for > > lying may be > > > different (often because of their difficulties with working > > out/weighing up > > > consequences). But they make exceptionally good liars because > they > > do not > > > have any of the non-verbal give-away signs we normally look for!> > > > > > __________________________________________________

March 7, 2010

Okay, so I have read a lot of places now that people with AS usually don't lie.

Now my little aspie 6 year old is lying a lot. To the point where he doesn't

care what punishment I threaten, he continues to lie. Now he is not even

remotely convincing mind you. I caught him getting on the internet this morning

before I got up which he is absolutely not supposed to do, and he closed the

window as I walked out. When I asked him what he was doing on the computer, he

just kept saying, I can't remember, I can't get my brain to remember. Now he

just closed the window, so I don't see how he couldn't remember. So anyway, I

password protected all the computer profiles so he can't get on, but it was so

much easier when he was following the rules with no exception. Should I be

happy? Is the ability to lie and good sign? I just can't bring myself to be

happy that my son is lying no matter how " normal " the behavior.

March 7, 2010

My son lies too....to me...not to others...LOL....

When I asked him if he used the 3-dimensional model for his science presentation..he said...I can't remember...omg...

jan

"Faith, hope and Love and the greatest of these is Love"

From: jm.smoldt <jm.smoldt@...> Sent: Sun, March 7, 2010 9:36:08 AMSubject: ( ) Lying

Okay, so I have read a lot of places now that people with AS usually don't lie. Now my little aspie 6 year old is lying a lot. To the point where he doesn't care what punishment I threaten, he continues to lie. Now he is not even remotely convincing mind you. I caught him getting on the internet this morning before I got up which he is absolutely not supposed to do, and he closed the window as I walked out. When I asked him what he was doing on the computer, he just kept saying, I can't remember, I can't get my brain to remember. Now he just closed the window, so I don't see how he couldn't remember. So anyway, I password protected all the computer profiles so he can't get on, but it was so much easier when he was following the rules with no exception. Should I be happy? Is the ability to lie and good sign? I just can't bring myself to be happy that my son is lying no matter how "normal" the behavior.

March 8, 2010

I think it's a good sign. started lying more around 4th grade. But their

perceptions are also different so they might not even believe they are lying.

Also, if in a panic he might not remember. You can click on history in your

browser to check out what he was visiting just to be sure it wasn't anything

bad. I have that panic/memory issue sometimes but more so when I was a kid. I

remember being yelled at in school for not turning in a piece of homework and I

didn't know WHY I hadn't turned it in and didn't know about it. It took me ages

to remember and I said, " I was out that day, my sister went to the hospital for

surgery. " They they thought I made it up. My mom gave them hell for punishing

me. Had to stand in the corner. It was horrible.

Miriam

>

> Okay, so I have read a lot of places now that people with AS usually don't

lie. Now my little aspie 6 year old is lying a lot. To the point where he

doesn't care what punishment I threaten, he continues to lie. Now he is not

even remotely convincing mind you. I caught him getting on the internet this

morning before I got up which he is absolutely not supposed to do, and he closed

the window as I walked out. When I asked him what he was doing on the computer,

he just kept saying, I can't remember, I can't get my brain to remember. Now he

just closed the window, so I don't see how he couldn't remember. So anyway, I

password protected all the computer profiles so he can't get on, but it was so

much easier when he was following the rules with no exception. Should I be

happy? Is the ability to lie and good sign? I just can't bring myself to be

happy that my son is lying no matter how " normal " the behavior.

>

March 9, 2010

I really don't know. I just pray that he never figures out how to really lie

well. My life is stressful enough when I KNOW what he has done. I really can't

imagine if I didn't.

Vickie

> >> >

> >> > Okay, so I have read a lot of places now that people with AS usually

> >> > don't lie. Now my little aspie 6 year old is lying a lot. To the point

> >> > where he doesn't care what punishment I threaten, he continues to lie.

> >> > Now he is not even remotely convincing mind you. I caught him getting

> >> > on the internet this morning before I got up which he is absolutely not

> >> > supposed to do, and he closed the window as I walked out. When I asked

> >> > him what he was doing on the computer, he just kept saying, I can't

> >> > remember, I can't get my brain to remember. Now he just closed the

> >> > window, so I don't see how he couldn't remember. So anyway, I password

> >> > protected all the computer profiles so he can't get on, but it was so

> >> > much easier when he was following the rules with no exception. Should I

> >> > be happy? Is the ability to lie and good sign? I just can't bring

> >> > myself to be happy that my son is lying no matter how " normal " the

> >> > behavior.

> >> >

> >>

> >

>

> --

> Sent from my mobile device

>

> -mommy to Emma, Becca, ,

> and

>

> Girl Scout cookies are coming!

>

March 9, 2010

My daughter can not lie to save her life. So many things are starting to add up for me now. From: baneline1@...Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2010 14:36:16 +0000Subject: ( ) Re: Lying

I really don't know. I just pray that he never figures out how to really lie well. My life is stressful enough when I KNOW what he has done. I really can't imagine if I didn't.