Re: Ultimate Flora (KerryAnn and others)

[Guest guest]

> I went ahead and ordered some Ultimate Flora. I was wondering for anyone

> who has used it did you just take one a day for a period of time or did

> you (or would you) up to reflect the levels suggested for Bio-Kult? The

> candida article by Bee recommended that taking more than 10 billion a day

> was a waste of money. What do you think? Those who have gotten farther

I disagree with Bee, if you're talking about spacing it throughout the day.

I would up it to the levels suggested in the Bio-Kult literature. That's

what I did personally.

KerryAnn

www.cookingTF.com

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: Jane Swanson

I went ahead and ordered some Ultimate Flora. I was wondering for anyone who has used it did you just take one a day for a period of time or did you (or would you) up to reflect the levels suggested for Bio-Kult? The candida article by Bee recommended that taking more than 10 billion a day was a waste of money.

====>I think Bee has a great site, but I disagree with her here, some people need and can use a TON of probiotics to get their dysbiosis under control. Also I would recommend other immune support at the same time, Thymic Protein A, Transfer Factor, etc, something to prop up the immune system until it gets going on its own.

What do you think? Those who have gotten farther along the Bio-kult protocol have you seen a difference by increasing the quantity?Thanks,Jane

[Guest guest]

How does Ultimate Flora compare to Bio-Kult? I " m still trying to

decide what to get...

> I went ahead and ordered some Ultimate Flora. I was wondering for

anyone

> who has used it did you just take one a day for a period of time

or did

> you (or would you) up to reflect the levels suggested for

Bio-Kult? The

> candida article by Bee recommended that taking more than 10

billion a day

> was a waste of money.

[Guest guest]

New to the group, just trying to learn.

I have the Ultimate Flora and I took it for about two weeks inbetween courses of antibiotics so I really can't say I noticed it helped. Since finishing the last course, I decided to do yougurt for a couple of weeks before finishing off the Ultimate flora and then finishing some others I have. Hope it helps...

C.

[ ] Re: Ultimate Flora (KerryAnn and others)

How does Ultimate Flora compare to Bio-Kult? I"m still trying todecide what to get...> I went ahead and ordered some Ultimate Flora. I was wondering foranyone > who has used it did you just take one a day for a period of timeor did > you (or would you) up to reflect the levels suggested forBio-Kult? The > candida article by Bee recommended that taking more than 10billion a day > was a waste of money.

[Guest guest]

It didn't help me at all. I took it for over a month -- probably about a month and a half.I started on the ThreeLac probiotic and saw an 80-90% reduction in one of my symptoms (sores in my nose that would not heal) in just 3 days.I am now using BioKult -- I think it is even better than the ThreeLac. However, I think both work. I cannot vouch for the Ultimate Flora. It did not work for me.Ann MarieOn Mar 19, 2008, at 7:35 PM, C. wrote: New to the group, just trying to learn. I have the Ultimate Flora and I took it for about two weeks inbetween courses of antibiotics so I really can't say I noticed it helped. Since finishing the last course, I decided to do yougurt for a couple of weeks before finishing off the Ultimate flora and then finishing some others I have. Hope it helps...

[Guest guest]

I think I might suck it up and buy the BioKult instead of trying to

find a cheaper option...cheaper isn't better if it doesn't work, eh?

>

> It didn't help me at all. I took it for over a month -- probably about

> a month and a half.

>

> I started on the ThreeLac probiotic and saw an 80-90% reduction in one

> of my symptoms (sores in my nose that would not heal) in just 3 days.

>

> I am now using BioKult -- I think it is even better than the ThreeLac.

> However, I think both work. I cannot vouch for the Ultimate Flora. It

> did not work for me.

>

> Ann Marie

[Guest guest]

> I think I might suck it up and buy the BioKult instead of trying to

> find a cheaper option...cheaper isn't better if it doesn't work, eh?

Well, it works really well for some people. I don't know why it works for

some and not others, though. Perhaps the store they bought them at didn't

refrigerate them, or they have a difference in body pH or something like

that that kills them off? I don't know.

It might be worth trying, then if it doesn't work for you then you can move

on to the Bio-Kult, knowing you tried. I know personally The thousands for

Bio-Kult to treat the whole family is completely out of my budget, so we're

sticking with the Ultimate Flora since we saw such great results from it.

KerryAnn

www.cookingTF.com

[Guest guest]

> How does Ultimate Flora compare to Bio-Kult? I " m still trying to

> decide what to get...

I haven't personally tried the BioKult. The Ultimate Flora worked for me.

I also added S. boulardii and took the two at the same time. I went through

major detox and die-off from it.

KerryAnn

www.cookingTF.com

[Guest guest]

What type of diet were you eating when you went through the die-off? (GFCF? GAPS? BED? something else?)On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 7:20 PM, KerryAnn at CookingTF.com <kerryann@...> wrote:

> How does Ultimate Flora compare to Bio-Kult? I " m still trying to

> decide what to get...

I haven't personally tried the BioKult. The Ultimate Flora worked for me.

I also added S. boulardii and took the two at the same time. I went through

major detox and die-off from it.

[Guest guest]

<<What type of diet were you eating when you went through the

die-off? (GFCF? GAPS? BED? something else?)>>

GAPS wasn’t around when I went

through my gut healing. I was GFCF, and also egg and corn-free because I was

also reacting to them. After starting them, I tried eating egg and corn again

and did fine, although I don’t know how long it was- maybe a month or

two?

KerryAnn

www.cookingTF.com

[Guest guest]

KerryAnn,

Did you take them with or between meals?

Jane

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008, KerryAnn at CookingTF.com wrote:

>> How does Ultimate Flora compare to Bio-Kult? I " m still trying to

>> decide what to get...

>

> I haven't personally tried the BioKult. The Ultimate Flora worked for me.

> I also added S. boulardii and took the two at the same time. I went through

> major detox and die-off from it.

>

> KerryAnn

> www.cookingTF.com

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Did you take them with or between meals?

I took mine at bedtime on an empty stomach.

KerryAnn

www.cookingTF.com

[Guest guest]

I still wonder if the Ultimate Flora hasn't really worked for you KerryAnn, seeing how you've been GFCF for two years and still can't do dairy. Is that right, or did I remember it wrong? You can do ghee, right, but nothing else?Just wondering if you did use a stronger probiotic at a higher dose, if that would enable colonization which would allow you to introduce other foods -- starting with dairy.From what I understand from Dr. -McBride, *most* probiotics are not effective in creating colonization. They are simply prophylactic, she says. Without colonization, you can never really truly heal the gut and alleviate the food allergies.Just my 2 cents.On Mar 21, 2008, at 5:26 PM, KerryAnn at CookingTF.com wrote:<<What type of diet were you eating when you went through the die-off? (GFCF? GAPS? BED? something else?)>>GAPS wasn’t around when I went through my gut healing. I was GFCF, and also egg and corn-free because I was also reacting to them. After starting them, I tried eating egg and corn again and did fine, although I don’t know how long it was- maybe a month or two?

[Guest guest]

<<I still wonder if the Ultimate Flora hasn't really worked for you

KerryAnn, seeing how you've been GFCF for two years and still can't do

dairy. Is that right, or did I remember it wrong? You can do ghee, right,

but nothing else?>>

You're remembering wrong, and I think overall you have a very wrong

impression of my state of health. Choosing not to do something is quite

different from not being able to do it due to reaction. Gluten is the only

thing I willingly leave out of my diet, because I am celiac and after

reading the research, I choose to leave it alone until some convincing and

long-term studies points me otherwise. I've met too many celiacs who 'did

it all right,' added only long-soaked grains back into their diet and wound

up sicker than before their first diagnosis. And it came on hard and fast,

and often the second go around the damage isn't as easily reversed, if it

can be reversed at all. I'm not willing to play with fire or suggest that

other celiacs do the same.

I can handle dairy, I just haven't challenged large amounts of it, like a

quart of milk in a day for several days in a row. I choose at this point

not to add it back in because I don't have the access to raw that I used to,

and if I'm going to do it, I'll only accept raw. So to me, very limited

grass-fed and raw dairy is better than all the pasteurized I care to drink.

KerryAnn

www.cookingTF.com

[Guest guest]

I can't speak to KerryAnn's health, but the Ultimate Flora is 5 times as

strong as the Bio-Kult per capsule. To me this suggests that Ultimate

Flora is the stronger probiotic.

Jane

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008, inasnit@... wrote:

> I still wonder if the Ultimate Flora hasn't really worked for you KerryAnn,

> seeing how you've been GFCF for two years and still can't do dairy. Is that

> right, or did I remember it wrong? You can do ghee, right, but nothing else?

>

> Just wondering if you did use a stronger probiotic at a higher dose, if that

> would enable colonization which would allow you to introduce other foods --

> starting with dairy.

>

> From what I understand from Dr. -McBride, *most* probiotics are not

> effective in creating colonization. They are simply prophylactic, she says.

> Without colonization, you can never really truly heal the gut and alleviate

> the food allergies.

>

> Just my 2 cents.

>

>

> On Mar 21, 2008, at 5:26 PM, KerryAnn at CookingTF.com wrote:

>

>> <<What type of diet were you eating when you went through the die-off?

>> (GFCF? GAPS? BED? something else?)>>

>>

>> GAPS wasn?t around when I went through my gut healing. I was GFCF, and

>> also egg and corn-free because I was also reacting to them. After starting

>> them, I tried eating egg and corn again and did fine, although I don?t know

>> how long it was- maybe a month or two?

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Mar 21, 2008, at 10:06 PM, Jane Swanson wrote:

>

> I can't speak to KerryAnn's health, but the Ultimate Flora is 5

> times as

> strong as the Bio-Kult per capsule. To me this suggests that Ultimate

> Flora is the stronger probiotic.

You're welcome to try it. It did not work for me -- I had no change in

symptoms for over a month. For me it was a waste of money.

[Guest guest]

I am still wondering about the FOS - Sugar, it being illegal and

feeding the bad guys. Does anyone have any more info on this one?

Also did anybody else check out Custom Probiotics that Lynn posted

about? You can buy the pro's in a powder form straight nothing else

added to them. According to her post they are a supplier for most pro

b makers. They have several separate strains and a couple of mixed

strain.

I was comparing to brands like Natren who actually have dried milk and

Vit. C in their ingredients. I wondered how much in that 35 gram

bottle was really the pro b and how much was added ingredients. When

ordering Natrens Healthy Start System it comes with 3 strains that are

bottled separatly: Lactobacillus Acidophilus (super strain DDS-1),

Bifidobacterium Bifidum (super strain malyoth), Lactobacillus

Bulgaricus (super strain LB-51 (L. delbrueckii, subspecies bulgaricus).

All are - 2 billion CFU, plus 28 - 30 mg C (varies on strain), non-fat

milk and whey, per 1/2 tsp serving with 35 serv. per bottle and this 3

pack is about $33. Vs. buying the custom probiotics wich claim 100

billion - 400 billion organisms per gram serving.

http://tinyurl.com/2g8bjn

>

>

> I can't speak to KerryAnn's health, but the Ultimate Flora is 5 times

as

> strong as the Bio-Kult per capsule. To me this suggests that Ultimate

> Flora is the stronger probiotic.

[Guest guest]

added to them. According to her post they are a supplier for most pro b makers. They have several separate strains and a couple of mixed strain. --------> No no Custom Probiotics only supplies to their brand but as far as I can tell there are only 2 major raw material producers of probiotics in the US. Custom buys from one of these but the owner will not tell me who. I'm sure many of the other probiotic sellers are also getting their products made by these main suppliers. Don't know for sure though but it's a good guess they are. Brewing their own strains would require an intense amount of expertise and

equipment.Lynn

[Guest guest]

Sorry, i misread/remembered. Thanks for the clarification on it. Yes

i saw you can by separate strains. Just not all of them like what

nutri or bio have - variety. Do you know if anf of the ones custom

sells have the subspecies? In my post i listed the strains in Natren,

with in those strains it has other names. I am wondering if that is

the reason Bio has so many, cause it lists the subspecies, are they

def. another strain etc? Am i making any sense at all? The strains

Natren lists are same as some of the other 2 places but Natren also

list other names in the (), where the other 2 do not list any add. info.

So does that mean the other 2 companies don't have the subspecies in

their X even though it is the same name/strain as Natren?

>

>

> added to them. According to her post they are a supplier for most

pro

> b makers. They have several separate strains and a couple of mixed

> strain.

>

> --------> No no Custom Probiotics only supplies to their brand but as

far as I can tell there are only 2 major raw material producers of

probiotics in the US. Custom buys from one of these but the owner will

not tell me who. I'm sure many of the other probiotic sellers are also

getting their products made by these main suppliers. Don't know for

sure though but it's a good guess they are. Brewing their own strains

would require an intense amount of expertise and equipment.

>

> Lynn

>

[Guest guest]

On Mar 21, 2008, at 10:06 PM, Jane Swanson wrote:

>

> I can't speak to KerryAnn's health, but the Ultimate Flora is 5

> times as

> strong as the Bio-Kult per capsule. To me this suggests that Ultimate

> Flora is the stronger probiotic.

Another thing -- what they say is one thing. That doesn't mean

anything. I trust my own experience.

I just posted on my blog about how most olive oils are fake. Sally

Fallon said that if you put your olive oil in the fridge overnight and

it turns solid, it's real. If it's still liquid the next morning, it's

fake. I did it with 3 different olive oils and only one was solid the

next morning! (The one from a local olive ranch -- go figure!)

What I'm saying is just because they say it doesn't mean it's true. I

know for a fact -- based on personal experience -- that Ultimate Flora

does not work.

Biokult and ThreeLac on the other hand, have given me massive die-off

symptoms. I had NONE with Ultimate Flora, no matter how much I took.

Ann Marie

[Guest guest]

> Another thing -- what they say is one thing. That doesn't mean

> anything. I trust my own experience.

>

> I

> know for a fact -- based on personal experience -- that Ultimate

Flora

> does not work.

>

> Biokult and ThreeLac on the other hand, have given me massive die-

off

> symptoms. I had NONE with Ultimate Flora, no matter how much I took.

>

> Ann Marie

>

But it could be for other people. I have had 0 die off with biokult at

4 caps in morn and 4 at night - empty stomache etc. No die off here.

J

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know if there are any conditions in the stomach that could kill off the good bacteria on its trip to the intestines? The reason I ask is because I have taken many brands of acidolpolis and only when I did a 2 day sample of the "Pearl" brand, did I get any symtoms of die off... The pearl brand is formulated not to disingrate in the stomach.

[ ] Re: Ultimate Flora (KerryAnn and others)

> Another thing -- what they say is one thing. That doesn't mean > anything. I trust my own experience.> > I > know for a fact -- based on personal experience -- that Ultimate Flora > does not work.> > Biokult and ThreeLac on the other hand, have given me massive die-off > symptoms. I had NONE with Ultimate Flora, no matter how much I took.> > Ann Marie>But it could be for other people. I have had 0 die off with biokult at 4 caps in morn and 4 at night - empty stomache etc. No die off here.J

[Guest guest]

On Mar 22, 2008, at 10:43 PM, JoyfulHeart wrote:

>>

>

> But it could be for other people. I have had 0 die off with biokult

> at

> 4 caps in morn and 4 at night - empty stomache etc. No die off here.

True -- but how long have you been on it?

And, more importantly, what are your symptoms of abnormal gut flora

and have you seen any reduction in those symptoms?

I ask because it is not necessarily about die off. If you ramped up

slowly enough with the probiotic, you may not experience die-off at

all. So die-off is not necessarily a gauge of whether the probiotic

is effective.

However, a reduction of symptoms is a sign that a probiotic does work.

I had sores in my nose that would not heal. I had these sores 10 years

ago when I had a bad yeast overgrowth. I also had thrush on tongue,

respiratory allergies and recurrent sinus infections, chronic fatigue,

brain fog and dizziness, bloating, osteoarthritis in knees and

spreading to hands and elbows, etc.

When I was put on the birth control pill last year, after a couple of

months, the sores in my nose (along with the allergies and some other

symptoms) came back.

With the Ultimate Flora, I was on it for a month and a half with no

reduction in symptoms whatsoever. WIth ThreeLac, the sores in my nose

were GONE in 3 days. The other symptoms disappeared within a few weeks.

Also, 13 years ago when I first started this, I didn't know about

probiotics. I was following the yeast diet -- by Crook. When I

went on the elimination diet for 3 weeks, I had a total elimination of

symptoms. All my symptoms were gone -- and all I was doing was

following the diet. I was also taking garlic to kill the yeast. I was

not taking any probiotics.

The problem was when I tried to introduce other foods back into my

diet. I would sneeze, the mucus would come back, the brain fog and

lack of energy, etc. etc.

This is why I went to a natural doctor a few months later. I didn't

want to have to stay on this limited diet forever (meats, fish, and

non-starchy vegetables only -- no grains, no fruit, no sugar). But

anytime I introduced a new food, I had symptoms.

The doctor muscle tested me and told me that I could eat grains, just

not wheat -- and that I should eat them in moderation. She said I was

fine with dairy. And she put me on a therapeutic grade protiotic -- I

believe it was Metagenics. She also had me on Congaplex (Standard

Process), vitamin C, and a few other things to support my immune

system. I also got support for my exhausted adrenals (adrenal gland

mainly).

It took about 1 year to 1.5 years for me to totally heal on this diet/

nutritional plan.

My thinking is that you can only heal to a certain point with diet

alone. Similarly, if the probiotics are not strong enough or are

ineffective, you can only heal to a certain point.

The human body is designed to heal itself and if you have to eliminate

foods from your diet and/or you get symptoms if you eat certain foods,

you are not adequately healed. The good bacteria must colonize and

essentially overthrow the bad guys and repopulate and rebuild the gut.

They can't do this unless they have adequate numbers and proper

diversity of strains.

I didn't see any colonization with Ultimate Flora. With ThreeLac, it

happened very fast. The Biokult also worked in my experience -- my

daughter had massive die-off symptoms when I ramped up too fast with

her.

Ann Marie

[Guest guest]

I am not sure about that. However, I am suspicious of most probiotics. I agree with Dr. -McBride -- most of them do not work to cause a colonization.On Mar 23, 2008, at 6:31 AM, C. wrote: Does anyone know if there are any conditions in the stomach that could kill off the good bacteria on its trip to the intestines? The reason I ask is because I have taken many brands of acidolpolis and only when I did a 2 day sample of the "Pearl" brand, did I get any symtoms of die off... The pearl brand is formulated not to disingrate in the stomach.

[Guest guest]

I ramped up the process - fast - only did a day or two at each level

recommended in the literature that came with the Biokult. So week 1

was day one and 2 for me. Then i went straight to week 2 and did it

for 2 days. I did this with al lweeks unti l iwas taking 8 a day

through a whole bottle. Did not buy anymore for 2 reasons still

wiaitng on the group buying thing from local WAPF and because i do

not want to spend that much again for 0 results.

The symptoms i have i have not been able to test because they ae

seasonal allergies - hay fever and it triggers asthma only in June -

July. One is Eczema on my hands during winter which we were out of

before taking it. The other is C and i still have issues with it

unless i take my ascorbic acid/baking soda a few grams daily. I

stopped the kefir etc. per the book but things move easier when i go

ahead and drink some anyways. Have been making Coconut water kefir

and orange juice/coconut water Kefir and things move also. Not on

Biokult and diet alone. Still not toally GAPS - more everything

legal and still working on getting grains and dairy fully out. Have

them about 1 meal a week. Now actually cooking all veggies instead

of half raw diet - veggies being the raw part. Things also moved

easier when i juiced carrots/apple/spinache/zuchinni/lettuce.

Anyhow i am not a firm believer in biokult yet. Still willing to try

another bottle and see if at 6 in morn and 6 at night that helps. All

of this stuff really has me confused. You read the Yeast connection

stuff and everything is because of yeast. You read GASPS everything

is because of leaky gut. You read Thyroid/adreanl everything is

because of these things and if i got my homrones evened out all the

other stuff i deal with would go away. Oh and things move easier

when i take my armour for hypo which i quit taking 8 months ago

because i am stil not positive that i have it. All the symptoms of

these things go hand and hand and yet nobody seems to know what the

root is. I have been thinking about adding armour back but i feel

more easy to frustrate and anger on it, more tired and deal with C

w/o it.

>

> True -- but how long have you been on it?

>

> And, more importantly, what are your symptoms of abnormal gut

flora

> and have you seen any reduction in those symptoms?

>

> I ask because it is not necessarily about die off. If you ramped

up

> slowly enough with the probiotic, you may not experience die-off

at

> all. So die-off is not necessarily a gauge of whether the

probiotic

> is effective.

>

> However, a reduction of symptoms is a sign that a probiotic does

work.

>