Re: When to PUSH and when to Back off...

[Guest guest]

I understand why you wanted to leave, but I would've done it just a little different. I would've asked him to come into the other room so we could talk (and walked in the other room to wait for him.) Given how close he is to you, I'm hoping he would've gathered himself up and met you in the other room. Once there, I would've told him it wasn't appropriate to act like that because he wanted to leave and give him a different choice for next time, something like "next time, come into the room and ask if you can speak to me and I'll come right away." Then explain we would be leaving very soon (5 minutes or less) and walk back in and join the group. I would then wait a few minutes and then get him and his brother together and go sit in your truck and wait for your husband.

I'm suggesting this because it's one thing to be comforting him about wanting to leave and another about comforting him during a meltdown. I would not comfort him during a meltdown, or you could be conditioning him to have a meltdown to get his way. I'm not taking anything away from the fact that he was uncomfortable and ready to go. I really understand that. But I wouldn't "comfort" him in front of a group of people like that, even if it's family. Take him into another room, acknowledge his feelings, explain what a better choice would be next time, then just make him wait a few minutes before you go. He's 9 so waiting for a few minutes, especially when there is a TV in the room, shouldn't be too hard. Then he knows you hear him, but he also knows he's not going to get his way immediately by having a meltdown. I know it can be hard to decipher the right thing to say/do at times, especially when you're in the middle of the

situation.

"Over-optimism is waiting for you ship to come in when you haven't sent one out."

From: O'Brien <nicole.obrien@...> Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 2:34:39 PMSubject: ( ) When to "PUSH" and when to "Back off"...

Hey all

I’m in need of some of your excellent guidance again…

My husband and I are at COMPLETE odds over our Aspie son. He’s 9yrs old, and in grade 4. My husband seems to think I let him manipulate me, and I see it different (obviously LOL). I think my husband pushes him too much, and in areas where he’s not ABLE… instead of not WILLING (As my husband views it). The thing is… our aspie comes to me all the time. He won’t go NEAR my husband, he won’t let him say a word, he doesn’t respect him, trust him, go to him for comfort, nothing… because when it comes to most things, my husband shrugs it off and tells him he shouldn’t be affected by that, or shouldn’t be upset by that, or shouldn’t let his “brain do thatâ€.

Can anyone, in a generalistic way… share with me your experiences with knowing when is a good time to “push them†beyond their boundaries in a learning type of way, and when to respect their limitations, and back off, because pushing is going to do nothing but force a meltdown?

Where is the line between them “knowing what to do to get out of doing things they find uncomfortableâ€, and being unable to cope, and only reacting because of their disability, and us having to give them what they need at that particular moment?

EXAMPLE… Christmas, as we all know, is an overwhelming time of year as it is. On the last day of school for the kids (and the inevitable build up of stress during the previous couple of weeks for our boy), we went to my husband’s cousins new house for a quick visit. It was agreed it would be a quick visit. We got there, and actually went off to play with their children for a bit, but quickly came back upset because they were playing rough (and he’s SO Not into that). SO I set him up in the living room to watch Christmas shows, and the cousin got him some gingerale and a cookie, and life was good. He was content this way for about 30mins, and then completely lost it. It was obvious that he’d hit his breaking point. He melted into a pile of goo on the floor, sobbing that heart aching sob, not the “fakey†cry, which I know the difference of… and screaming, kicking, etc…

saying “I WANT TO GO BUY MILK AND GO HOME!†(he knew we were out) So… I got up from the table where we’d been visiting, and went over to comfort him and let him know we’d wrap things up and be on our way (we’d been there over an hour already anyway, and it was getting late). As I was walking over to him, my husband said to the table of people “See, ’s figured out that if he thrashes on the floor, he can get what he wants.†Needless to say, I was upset. I spun around and said “That is NOT how this works.â€

I then gathered up , and our other son, got their boots and coats on, thanked my husband’s cousin, and told her to tell DH we’d be waiting in the truck.

Then comes the next issue… we live in a rural area, and there are no streetlights. It is PITCH BLACK here at night. Like… can’t see 2 feet in front of you dark. *I* find it creepy, and I’m an adult without sensory issues Anyway… it petrifies , even when we’re in the truck with the lights on, and he has a flashlight in his hand (Which he did). Hubby left us waiting in the truck for 10mins before coming out to take us to buy milk and go home – and he thinks that I “let manipulate meâ€â€¦ and doesn’t quite see why I was so upset for the comment he made to his cousins.

Did I not push enough? Did he manipulate me in that moment?

Guidance please… thanks all

=)

[Guest guest]

Im with shelly (the other response) on this one.

during meltdowns, we have decided that even acknowledging it was even worse than

ignoring it.

I think finding a quiet space for your child would have been a wise choice.

we have found (and i dont know if this goes for everyone) that if my daughter is

having a meltdown, trying to console her by hugging her , she will yell " Dont

touch me ! " . so putting them in a quiet place and letting them calm themselves

seems to be the thing to do here.

it will not only show your family / freinds that you can have control of the

situation, but that there is no reason on their end to be concerned also. i

think it helps others understand more of your child that way.

Rob.

>

> Hey all

>

>

>

> I’m in need of some of your excellent guidance again…

>

>

>

> My husband and I are at COMPLETE odds over our Aspie son. He’s 9yrs old, and

in grade 4. My husband seems to think I let him manipulate me, and I see it

different (obviously LOL). I think my husband pushes him too much, and in areas

where he’s not ABLE… instead of not WILLING (As my husband views it). The

thing is… our aspie comes to me all the time. He won’t go NEAR my husband,

he won’t let him say a word, he doesn’t respect him, trust him, go to him

for comfort, nothing… because when it comes to most things, my husband shrugs

it off and tells him he shouldn’t be affected by that, or shouldn’t be upset

by that, or shouldn’t let his “brain do thatâ€.

>

>

>

> Can anyone, in a generalistic way… share with me your experiences with

knowing when is a good time to “push them†beyond their boundaries in a

learning type of way, and when to respect their limitations, and back off,

because pushing is going to do nothing but force a meltdown?

>

>

> Where is the line between them “knowing what to do to get out of doing

things they find uncomfortableâ€, and being unable to cope, and only reacting

because of their disability, and us having to give them what they need at that

particular moment?

>

>

>

> EXAMPLE… Christmas, as we all know, is an overwhelming time of year as it

is. On the last day of school for the kids (and the inevitable build up of

stress during the previous couple of weeks for our boy), we went to my

husband’s cousins new house for a quick visit. It was agreed it would be a

quick visit. We got there, and actually went off to play with their

children for a bit, but quickly came back upset because they were playing rough

(and he’s SO Not into that). SO I set him up in the living room to watch

Christmas shows, and the cousin got him some gingerale and a cookie, and life

was good. He was content this way for about 30mins, and then completely lost it.

It was obvious that he’d hit his breaking point. He melted into a pile of goo

on the floor, sobbing that heart aching sob, not the “fakey†cry, which I

know the difference of… and screaming, kicking, etc… saying “I WANT TO GO

BUY MILK AND GO HOME!†(he knew we were out) So… I got up from the table

where we’d been visiting, and went over to comfort him and let him know we’d

wrap things up and be on our way (we’d been there over an hour already anyway,

and it was getting late). As I was walking over to him, my husband said to the

table of people “See, ’s figured out that if he thrashes on the floor,

he can get what he wants.†Needless to say, I was upset. I spun around and

said “That is NOT how this works.â€

>

>

>

> I then gathered up , and our other son, got their boots and coats on,

thanked my husband’s cousin, and told her to tell DH we’d be waiting in the

truck.

>

>

>

> Then comes the next issue… we live in a rural area, and there are no

streetlights. It is PITCH BLACK here at night. Like… can’t see 2 feet in

front of you dark. *I* find it creepy, and I’m an adult without sensory issues

Anyway… it petrifies , even when we’re in the truck with the lights

on, and he has a flashlight in his hand (Which he did). Hubby left us waiting in

the truck for 10mins before coming out to take us to buy milk and go home †"

and he thinks that I “let manipulate meâ€â€¦ and doesn’t quite see

why I was so upset for the comment he made to his cousins.

>

>

>

> Did I not push enough? Did he manipulate me in that moment?

>

>

>

> Guidance please… thanks all

>

>

>

> =)

>

[Guest guest]

,I found your words very eerily familar to my own husband. my daughter has autism and is 3 but her autism is recovering and she is starting to show many aspie traits now. My husband in my opinion has asperger's and so he has learned through his life what is allowed social behavior and what is not. Or what is emotionally "normal" and what is not. he will also say things like "you should not feel that way" it is really his way of helping but it is not helpful at all. Like we can control how we feel right? well at one time he was being programed by his parents on how to feel. I know this sounds nuts but trust me I know this for a fact. His mother is an aspie too and she talks in normal conversation saying this is how people should behave. . . So at a very yound age my husband learned certain

things about social etticute and he can not reprogram them. There have been a few issues taht I have been able to reason with him on like throwing things we do not need out and not being such a pact rat because he mother is a huge pact rat. But I think there is a time when aspies are young when they are having a good day when they "learn" how to act in unfamiliar situations that they don't naturally know how to do. The can also be very set in their ways so if it is a standard or a rule in a sense then it does not change in their mind. I also struggle with knowing how to figure out what I can programor teach my daughter and what she can not change. I would trust your mommy instincts. We are usually right about this. Stand your ground to your husband and find other ways for them to bond. They need to have father son time alone without you every day for some time to do something fun they would like just

to be silly. maybe if they could have some fun dad time they would get along better. the line of knowing what to do you mentioned is very gray and transparent for me sometimes. it is hard to know but I personally try to push my daughter just a little past her comfort zone in everything. Whenever we butt heads I try to find a compromise that we both can live with where I know she isn't getting her way completely and I am lowering my expectations too. Then It is war!! If I compromise I am not messing around. I make sure she follows through because I don't want her to think there is room for negotiations or arguing back and forth. I also have to remind her daily when she fights me that mommy is the boss and she needs to listen to my words please. your husbands comment at the family dinner was horrible!! I am so sorry he said that! mine does that too sometimes but only to me not others. If it were

me we would have words about it later so he understood my feelings were hurt and it insulted my mothering skills. Brad will tell me not to fell that way and I say well I do and you are in control of it and he feels bad. I have to get him to feel bad for me to try to work on these things. it is like he doesn't understand sometimes so I have to teach him. No you did not let him minipulate you. IF it were me I would probably try to get him to wait for 5 minutes or 10 minutes or anything to apease the husband and like give hima warning that our son is melting down and whether you like it or not we are taking him home. Maybe your husband was not ready to go or is emasculated in front of his people that he has to leave because his kid said so. Your husband needs to talk this out with you. He needs to tell you what would help him for next time. There must be something he is lacking that would help and

that might just be to hear your reasons for taking him home. good luck. I totally hear you though i deal with that a lot!From: MacAllister <smacalli@...>Subject: Re: ( ) When to "PUSH" and when to "Back off"... Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 2:16 PM

I understand why you wanted to leave, but I would've done it just a little different. I would've asked him to come into the other room so we could talk (and walked in the other room to wait for him.) Given how close he is to you, I'm hoping he would've gathered himself up and met you in the other room. Once there, I would've told him it wasn't appropriate to act like that because he wanted to leave and give him a different choice for next time, something like "next time, come into the room and ask if you can speak to me and I'll come right away." Then explain we would be leaving very soon (5 minutes or less) and walk back in and join the group. I would then wait a few minutes and then get him and his brother together and go sit in your truck and wait for your husband.

I'm suggesting this because it's one thing to be comforting him about wanting to leave and another about comforting him during a meltdown. I would not comfort him during a meltdown, or you could be conditioning him to have a meltdown to get his way. I'm not taking anything away from the fact that he was uncomfortable and ready to go. I really understand that. But I wouldn't "comfort" him in front of a group of people like that, even if it's family. Take him into another room, acknowledge his feelings, explain what a better choice would be next time, then just make him wait a few minutes before you go. He's 9 so waiting for a few minutes, especially when there is a TV in the room, shouldn't be too hard. Then he knows you hear him, but he also knows he's not going to get his way immediately by having a meltdown. I know it can be hard to decipher the right thing to say/do at times, especially when you're in the middle of the

situation.

"Over-optimism is waiting for you ship to come in when you haven't sent one out."

From: O'Brien <nicole.obrien@ eastlink. ca> Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 2:34:39 PMSubject: ( ) When to "PUSH" and when to "Back off"...

Hey all

I’m in need of some of your excellent guidance again…

My husband and I are at COMPLETE odds over our Aspie son. He’s 9yrs old, and in grade 4. My husband seems to think I let him manipulate me, and I see it different (obviously LOL). I think my husband pushes him too much, and in areas where he’s not ABLE… instead of not WILLING (As my husband views it). The thing is… our aspie comes to me all the time. He won’t go NEAR my husband, he won’t let him say a word, he doesn’t respect him, trust him, go to him for comfort, nothing… because when it comes to most things, my husband shrugs it off and tells him he shouldn’t be affected by that, or shouldn’t be upset by that, or shouldn’t let his “brain do thatâ€.

Can anyone, in a generalistic way… share with me your experiences with knowing when is a good time to “push them†beyond their boundaries in a learning type of way, and when to respect their limitations, and back off, because pushing is going to do nothing but force a meltdown?

Where is the line between them “knowing what to do to get out of doing things they find uncomfortableâ€, and being unable to cope, and only reacting because of their disability, and us having to give them what they need at that particular moment?

EXAMPLE… Christmas, as we all know, is an overwhelming time of year as it is. On the last day of school for the kids (and the inevitable build up of stress during the previous couple of weeks for our boy), we went to my husband’s cousins new house for a quick visit. It was agreed it would be a quick visit. We got there, and actually went off to play with their children for a bit, but quickly came back upset because they were playing rough (and he’s SO Not into that). SO I set him up in the living room to watch Christmas shows, and the cousin got him some gingerale and a cookie, and life was good. He was content this way for about 30mins, and then completely lost it. It was obvious that he’d hit his breaking point. He melted into a pile of goo on the floor, sobbing that heart aching sob, not the “fakey†cry, which I know the difference of… and screaming,

kicking, etc…

saying “I WANT TO GO BUY MILK AND GO HOME!†(he knew we were out) So… I got up from the table where we’d been visiting, and went over to comfort him and let him know we’d wrap things up and be on our way (we’d been there over an hour already anyway, and it was getting late). As I was walking over to him, my husband said to the table of people “See, ’s figured out that if he thrashes on the floor, he can get what he wants.†Needless to say, I was upset. I spun around and said “That is NOT how this works.â€

I then gathered up , and our other son, got their boots and coats on, thanked my husband’s cousin, and told her to tell DH we’d be waiting in the truck.

Then comes the next issue… we live in a rural area, and there are no streetlights. It is PITCH BLACK here at night. Like… can’t see 2 feet in front of you dark. *I* find it creepy, and I’m an adult without sensory issues Anyway… it petrifies , even when we’re in the truck with the lights on, and he has a flashlight in his hand (Which he did). Hubby left us waiting in the truck for 10mins before coming out to take us to buy milk and go home – and he thinks that I “let manipulate meâ€â€¦ and doesn’t quite see why I was so upset for the comment he made to his cousins.

Did I not push enough? Did he manipulate me in that moment?

Guidance please… thanks all

=)

[Guest guest]

-

Read your question on Aspergers Support. My Son is 8 and in third grade. You

might want to consider joining GFCF kids as I'm in both groups doing the two

prong approach. The fact that he had a meltdown after Gingerale and a cookie as

well as craves milk makes me think this diet might help you. I tried it two

years ago as I thought eating healthy can't hurt and I'd been having " leaky gut "

issues and came across the diet... later talked about by some Hollywood types.

Here's a link on how to start

http://gfcf-diet.talkaboutcuringautism.org/gfcf-in-10-weeks.htm. The CF (dairy

free) will show faster results then if it's GF (Glutten Free), but by the end of

10 weeks you should notice positive results and know if you're on the right

track. I was shocked with improvements my Son made in the areas of almost no

more tantrums, better eye contact, more affectionate, almost no stimming, less

sensory issues after the GFCF diet and reducing yeast overgrowth in the gut.

Regards,

Bill

>

> Hey all

>

>

>

> I’m in need of some of your excellent guidance again…

>

>

>

> My husband and I are at COMPLETE odds over our Aspie son. He’s 9yrs old, and

in grade 4. My husband seems to think I let him manipulate me, and I see it

different (obviously LOL). I think my husband pushes him too much, and in areas

where he’s not ABLE… instead of not WILLING (As my husband views it). The

thing is… our aspie comes to me all the time. He won’t go NEAR my husband,

he won’t let him say a word, he doesn’t respect him, trust him, go to him

for comfort, nothing… because when it comes to most things, my husband shrugs

it off and tells him he shouldn’t be affected by that, or shouldn’t be upset

by that, or shouldn’t let his “brain do thatâ€.

>

>

>

> Can anyone, in a generalistic way… share with me your experiences with

knowing when is a good time to “push them†beyond their boundaries in a

learning type of way, and when to respect their limitations, and back off,

because pushing is going to do nothing but force a meltdown?

>

>

> Where is the line between them “knowing what to do to get out of doing

things they find uncomfortableâ€, and being unable to cope, and only reacting

because of their disability, and us having to give them what they need at that

particular moment?

>

>

>

> EXAMPLE… Christmas, as we all know, is an overwhelming time of year as it

is. On the last day of school for the kids (and the inevitable build up of

stress during the previous couple of weeks for our boy), we went to my

husband’s cousins new house for a quick visit. It was agreed it would be a

quick visit. We got there, and actually went off to play with their

children for a bit, but quickly came back upset because they were playing rough

(and he’s SO Not into that). SO I set him up in the living room to watch

Christmas shows, and the cousin got him some gingerale and a cookie, and life

was good. He was content this way for about 30mins, and then completely lost it.

It was obvious that he’d hit his breaking point. He melted into a pile of goo

on the floor, sobbing that heart aching sob, not the “fakey†cry, which I

know the difference of… and screaming, kicking, etc… saying “I WANT TO GO

BUY MILK AND GO HOME!†(he knew we were out) So… I got up from the table

where we’d been visiting, and went over to comfort him and let him know we’d

wrap things up and be on our way (we’d been there over an hour already anyway,

and it was getting late). As I was walking over to him, my husband said to the

table of people “See, ’s figured out that if he thrashes on the floor,

he can get what he wants.†Needless to say, I was upset. I spun around and

said “That is NOT how this works.â€

>

>

>

> I then gathered up , and our other son, got their boots and coats on,

thanked my husband’s cousin, and told her to tell DH we’d be waiting in the

truck.

>

>

>

> Then comes the next issue… we live in a rural area, and there are no

streetlights. It is PITCH BLACK here at night. Like… can’t see 2 feet in

front of you dark. *I* find it creepy, and I’m an adult without sensory issues

Anyway… it petrifies , even when we’re in the truck with the lights

on, and he has a flashlight in his hand (Which he did). Hubby left us waiting in

the truck for 10mins before coming out to take us to buy milk and go home †"

and he thinks that I “let manipulate meâ€â€¦ and doesn’t quite see

why I was so upset for the comment he made to his cousins.

>

>

>

> Did I not push enough? Did he manipulate me in that moment?

>

>

>

> Guidance please… thanks all

>

>

>

> =)

>

[Guest guest]

What do you do when your child won't go to a private space? How do you re-direct the child that is interrupting the group?

On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 5:12 PM, <video228@...> wrote:

 

Im with shelly (the other response) on this one.during meltdowns, we have decided that even acknowledging it was even worse than ignoring it.I think finding a quiet space for your child would have been a wise choice.

we have found (and i dont know if this goes for everyone) that if my daughter is having a meltdown, trying to console her by hugging her , she will yell " Dont touch me ! " . so putting them in a quiet place and letting them calm themselves seems to be the thing to do here.

it will not only show your family / freinds that you can have control of the situation, but that there is no reason on their end to be concerned also. i think it helps others understand more of your child that way.

Rob.>> Hey all > >

> > I’m in need of some of your excellent guidance again…> > > > My husband and I are at COMPLETE odds over our Aspie son. He’s 9yrs old, and in grade 4. My husband seems to think I let him manipulate me, and I see it different (obviously LOL). I think my husband pushes him too much, and in areas where he’s not ABLE… instead of not WILLING (As my husband views it). The thing is… our aspie comes to me all the time. He won’t go NEAR my husband, he won’t let him say a word, he doesn’t respect him, trust him, go to him for comfort, nothing… because when it comes to most things, my husband shrugs it off and tells him he shouldn’t be affected by that, or shouldn’t be upset by that, or shouldn’t let his “brain do that†.

> > > > Can anyone, in a generalistic way… share with me your experiences with knowing when is a good time to “push them†beyond their boundaries in a learning type of way, and when to respect their limitations, and back off, because pushing is going to do nothing but force a meltdown?

> > > Where is the line between them “knowing what to do to get out of doing things they find uncomfortable†, and being unable to cope, and only reacting because of their disability, and us having to give them what they need at that particular moment?

> > > > EXAMPLE… Christmas, as we all know, is an overwhelming time of year as it is. On the last day of school for the kids (and the inevitable build up of stress during the previous couple of weeks for our boy), we went to my husband’s cousins new house for a quick visit. It was agreed it would be a quick visit. We got there, and actually went off to play with their children for a bit, but quickly came back upset because they were playing rough (and he’s SO Not into that). SO I set him up in the living room to watch Christmas shows, and the cousin got him some gingerale and a cookie, and life was good. He was content this way for about 30mins, and then completely lost it. It was obvious that he’d hit his breaking point. He melted into a pile of goo on the floor, sobbing that heart aching sob, not the “fakey†cry, which I know the difference of… and screaming, kicking, etc… saying “I WANT TO GO BUY MILK AND GO HOME!†(he knew we were out) So… I got up from the table where we’d been visiting, and went over to comfort him and let him know we’d wrap things up and be on our way (we’d been there over an hour already anyway, and it was getting late). As I was walking over to him, my husband said to the table of people “See, ’s figured out that if he thrashes on the floor, he can get what he wants.†Needless to say, I was upset. I spun around and said “That is NOT how this works.â€

> > > > I then gathered up , and our other son, got their boots and coats on, thanked my husband’s cousin, and told her to tell DH we’d be waiting in the truck.> > >

> Then comes the next issue… we live in a rural area, and there are no streetlights. It is PITCH BLACK here at night. Like… can’t see 2 feet in front of you dark. *I* find it creepy, and I’m an adult without sensory issues Anyway… it petrifies , even when we’re in the truck with the lights on, and he has a flashlight in his hand (Which he did). Hubby left us waiting in the truck for 10mins before coming out to take us to buy milk and go home †" and he thinks that I “let manipulate me†… and doesn’t quite see why I was so upset for the comment he made to his cousins. > > > > Did I not push enough? Did he manipulate me in that moment?> > > > Guidance please… thanks all > > > > =)

>

[Guest guest]

Becoming familiar with and implementing Dr. Ross Greene's "Collaborative Problem Solving" methods, as described in his books "The Explosive Child" and "Lost at School" will go a very long way towards solving this type of problem, and it will also begin to build skills within your child to handle situations when you are not with him or her.The third edition of "The Explosive Child" is due out on January 19. You can learn a lot about the strategies, and science here: www.thinkkids.org Another wonderful thing about the books is that they explain WHY our kids don't always respond the way we wish they would, due to lacking SKILLS rather than being willfully disobedient, or manipulative. Dr. Greene's philosophy, "Children Do Well If They Can" goes a long way towards helping parents understand that their child needs help learning skills. Dr. Greene describes 5 areas of lagging skills: Social SkillsCognitive FlexibilityEmotional RegulationExecutive FunctioningLanguage ProcessingI'd add a sixth: Sensory Processing. The beautiful thing about his Collaborative Problem Solving is that simply by USING the method, children gain many of these skills, over time.I highly recommend this book, for parents, family members and educators. It made an incredible difference in my son's life, and in the lives of hundreds of families that I know.Sarasesgardner@...www.aspergersupport.comhttp://nototherwisespecified.typepad.com/blog/--- In , Christiansen <cathychristiansen84@...> wrote:>> ,> I found your words very eerily familar to my own husband. my daughter has autism and is 3 but her autism is recovering and she is starting to show many aspie traits now. My husband in my opinion has asperger's and so he has learned through his life what is allowed social behavior and what is not. Or what is emotionally "normal" and what is not. he will also say things like "you should not feel that way" it is really his way of helping but it is not helpful at all. Like we can control how we feel right? well at one time he was being programed by his parents on how to feel. I know this sounds nuts but trust me I know this for a fact. His mother is an aspie too and she talks in normal conversation saying this is how people should behave. . . So at a very yound age my husband learned certain things about social etticute and he can not reprogram them. There have been a few issues taht I have been able to reason with him on like throwing> things we do not need out and not being such a pact rat because he mother is a huge pact rat. But I think there is a time when aspies are young when they are having a good day when they "learn" how to act in unfamiliar situations that they don't naturally know how to do. The can also be very set in their ways so if it is a standard or a rule in a sense then it does not change in their mind. I also struggle with knowing how to figure out what I can programor teach my daughter and what she can not change. I would trust your mommy instincts. We are usually right about this. Stand your ground to your husband and find other ways for them to bond. They need to have father son time alone without you every day for some time to do something fun they would like just to be silly. maybe if they could have some fun dad time they would get along better. the line of knowing what to do you mentioned is very gray and transparent for me sometimes. it> is hard to know but I personally try to push my daughter just a little past her comfort zone in everything. Whenever we butt heads I try to find a compromise that we both can live with where I know she isn't getting her way completely and I am lowering my expectations too. Then It is war!! If I compromise I am not messing around. I make sure she follows through because I don't want her to think there is room for negotiations or arguing back and forth. I also have to remind her daily when she fights me that mommy is the boss and she needs to listen to my words please. your husbands comment at the family dinner was horrible!! I am so sorry he said that! mine does that too sometimes but only to me not others. If it were me we would have words about it later so he understood my feelings were hurt and it insulted my mothering skills. Brad will tell me not to fell that way and I say well I do and you are in control of it and he feels bad. > I have to get him to feel bad for me to try to work on these things. it is like he doesn't understand sometimes so I have to teach him. No you did not let him minipulate you. IF it were me I would probably try to get him to wait for 5 minutes or 10 minutes or anything to apease the husband and like give hima warning that our son is melting down and whether you like it or not we are taking him home. Maybe your husband was not ready to go or is emasculated in front of his people that he has to leave because his kid said so. Your husband needs to talk this out with you. He needs to tell you what would help him for next time. There must be something he is lacking that would help and that might just be to hear your reasons for taking him home. good luck. I totally hear you though i deal with that a lot!> > > > > > > > From: MacAllister smacalli@...> Subject: Re: ( ) When to "PUSH" and when to "Back off"...> > Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 2:16 PM> > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > I understand why you wanted to leave, but I would've done it just a little different. I would've asked him to come into the other room so we could talk (and walked in the other room to wait for him.) Given how close he is to you, I'm hoping he would've gathered himself up and met you in the other room. Once there, I would've told him it wasn't appropriate to act like that because he wanted to leave and give him a different choice for next time, something like "next time, come into the room and ask if you can speak to me and I'll come right away." Then explain we would be leaving very soon (5 minutes or less) and walk back in and join the group. I would then wait a few minutes and then get him and his brother together and go sit in your truck and wait for your husband.>  > I'm suggesting this because it's one thing to be comforting him about wanting to leave and another about comforting him during a meltdown. I would not comfort him during a meltdown, or you could be conditioning him to have a meltdown to get his way. I'm not taking anything away from the fact that he was uncomfortable and ready to go. I really understand that. But I wouldn't "comfort" him in front of a group of people like that, even if it's family. Take him into another room, acknowledge his feelings, explain what a better choice would be next time, then just make him wait a few minutes before you go. He's 9 so waiting for a few minutes, especially when there is a TV in the room, shouldn't be too hard. Then he knows you hear him, but he also knows he's not going to get his way immediately by having a meltdown. I know it can be hard to decipher the right thing to say/do at times, especially when you're in the middle of the> situation.>  > > > > > "Over-optimism is waiting for you ship to come in when you haven't sent one out."> > > > > > > From: O'Brien <nicole.obrien@ eastlink. ca>> > Sent: Mon, January 4, 2010 2:34:39 PM> Subject: ( ) When to "PUSH" and when to "Back off"...> >  > > > > > Hey all >  > I’m in need of some of your excellent guidance again…>  > My husband and I are at COMPLETE odds over our Aspie son. He’s 9yrs old, and in grade 4. My husband seems to think I let him manipulate me, and I see it different (obviously LOL). I think my husband pushes him too much, and in areas where he’s not ABLE… instead of not WILLING (As my husband views it). The thing is… our aspie comes to me all the time. He won’t go NEAR my husband, he won’t let him say a word, he doesn’t respect him, trust him, go to him for comfort, nothing… because when it comes to most things, my husband shrugs it off and tells him he shouldn’t be affected by that, or shouldn’t be upset by that, or shouldn’t let his “brain do thatâ€. >  > Can anyone, in a generalistic way… share with me your experiences with knowing when is a good time to “push them†beyond their boundaries in a learning type of way, and when to respect their limitations, and back off, because pushing is going to do nothing but force a meltdown?> > Where is the line between them “knowing what to do to get out of doing things they find uncomfortableâ€, and being unable to cope, and only reacting because of their disability, and us having to give them what they need at that particular moment?>  > EXAMPLE… Christmas, as we all know, is an overwhelming time of year as it is. On the last day of school for the kids (and the inevitable build up of stress during the previous couple of weeks for our boy), we went to my husband’s cousins new house for a quick visit. It was agreed it would be a quick visit. We got there, and actually went off to play with their children for a bit, but quickly came back upset because they were playing rough (and he’s SO Not into that). SO I set him up in the living room to watch Christmas shows, and the cousin got him some gingerale and a cookie, and life was good. He was content this way for about 30mins, and then completely lost it. It was obvious that he’d hit his breaking point. He melted into a pile of goo on the floor, sobbing that heart aching sob, not the “fakey†cry, which I know the difference of… and screaming, kicking, etc…> saying “I WANT TO GO BUY MILK AND GO HOME!†(he knew we were out) So… I got up from the table where we’d been visiting, and went over to comfort him and let him know we’d wrap things up and be on our way (we’d been there over an hour already anyway, and it was getting late). As I was walking over to him, my husband said to the table of people “See, ’s figured out that if he thrashes on the floor, he can get what he wants.†Needless to say, I was upset. I spun around and said “That is NOT how this works.â€>  > I then gathered up , and our other son, got their boots and coats on, thanked my husband’s cousin, and told her to tell DH we’d be waiting in the truck.>  > Then comes the next issue… we live in a rural area, and there are no streetlights. It is PITCH BLACK here at night. Like… can’t see 2 feet in front of you dark. *I* find it creepy, and I’m an adult without sensory issues Anyway… it petrifies , even when we’re in the truck with the lights on, and he has a flashlight in his hand (Which he did). Hubby left us waiting in the truck for 10mins before coming out to take us to buy milk and go home â€" and he thinks that I “let manipulate meâ€â€¦ and doesn’t quite see why I was so upset for the comment he made to his cousins.>  > Did I not push enough? Did he manipulate me in that moment?>  > Guidance please… thanks all >  > =)>

[Guest guest]

I hate to say this, but when my son was so disruptive as to interfere with basic

family necessities, such as eating, or the safety of himself or others in the

family, we found we had to lock him in his room (we had a lock on the outside of

his room). For example, we would give him his dinner at a little table in his

room. I know that sounds harsh, but sometimes the behavior was so disruptive

that there was really no other way. It took about a year of this before he

finally settled down enough to where this became no longer necessary.

That said, there is a very fine line between when to push and when to back

off...sometimes we make the right call, sometimes it explodes in our face...

> > >

> > > Hey all

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I’m in need of some of your excellent guidance again…

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > My husband and I are at COMPLETE odds over our Aspie son. He’s 9yrs

> > old, and in grade 4. My husband seems to think I let him manipulate me, and

> > I see it different (obviously LOL). I think my husband pushes him too much,

> > and in areas where he’s not ABLE… instead of not WILLING (As my husband

> > views it). The thing is… our aspie comes to me all the time. He won’t go

> > NEAR my husband, he won’t let him say a word, he doesn’t respect him,

> > trust him, go to him for comfort, nothing… because when it comes to most

> > things, my husband shrugs it off and tells him he shouldn’t be affected by

> > that, or shouldn’t be upset by that, or shouldn’t let his “brain do

> > that†.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Can anyone, in a generalistic way… share with me your experiences with

> > knowing when is a good time to “push them†beyond their boundaries in a

> > learning type of way, and when to respect their limitations, and back off,

> > because pushing is going to do nothing but force a meltdown?

> > >

> > >

> > > Where is the line between them “knowing what to do to get out of doing

> > things they find uncomfortable†, and being unable to cope, and only

> > reacting because of their disability, and us having to give them what they

> > need at that particular moment?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > EXAMPLE… Christmas, as we all know, is an overwhelming time of year as

> > it is. On the last day of school for the kids (and the inevitable build up

> > of stress during the previous couple of weeks for our boy), we went to my

> > husband’s cousins new house for a quick visit. It was agreed it would be a

> > quick visit. We got there, and actually went off to play with their

> > children for a bit, but quickly came back upset because they were playing

> > rough (and he’s SO Not into that). SO I set him up in the living room to

> > watch Christmas shows, and the cousin got him some gingerale and a cookie,

> > and life was good. He was content this way for about 30mins, and then

> > completely lost it. It was obvious that he’d hit his breaking point. He

> > melted into a pile of goo on the floor, sobbing that heart aching sob, not

> > the “fakey†cry, which I know the difference of… and screaming,

> > kicking, etc… saying “I WANT TO GO BUY MILK AND GO HOME!†(he knew we

> > were out) So… I got up from the table where we’d been visiting, and went

> > over to comfort him and let him know we’d wrap things up and be on our way

> > (we’d been there over an hour already anyway, and it was getting late). As

> > I was walking over to him, my husband said to the table of people “See,

> > ’s figured out that if he thrashes on the floor, he can get what he

> > wants.†Needless to say, I was upset. I spun around and said “That is NOT

> > how this works.â€

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I then gathered up , and our other son, got their boots and coats

> > on, thanked my husband’s cousin, and told her to tell DH we’d be waiting

> > in the truck.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Then comes the next issue… we live in a rural area, and there are no

> > streetlights. It is PITCH BLACK here at night. Like… can’t see 2 feet in

> > front of you dark. *I* find it creepy, and I’m an adult without sensory

> > issues Anyway… it petrifies , even when we’re in the truck with

> > the lights on, and he has a flashlight in his hand (Which he did). Hubby

> > left us waiting in the truck for 10mins before coming out to take us to buy

> > milk and go home †" and he thinks that I “let manipulate me†…

> > and doesn’t quite see why I was so upset for the comment he made to his

> > cousins.

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Did I not push enough? Did he manipulate me in that moment?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Guidance please… thanks all

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > =)

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I like 's answer. I think knowing when to push and back off is

more of an art form than a rule. I mean, you start learning the

signals and you learn what your kid is like and how long you can push

before they fall apart, etc. Mix it all up and that's the answer.

Usually, you are working on long term problems/situations. So you know

from experience that they can only do *this* much before getting upset.

So you try to inch farther along by providing supports and fading

those supports as he meets with success. But it's not a push or don't

push, to me. It's a push so far and know when to stop and when to fade

support kind of thing.

I think sometimes it is important to define our goals and then we know

what we are working towards. So for instance, if screaming when he is

upset about something is the problem you want to focus on, you would

come up with a plan - figure out the situations that cause this sort of

thing, come up with ways to cut it off, express himself differently,

etc. Then you would put it into action by role playing, cueing,

reminding and helping him meet the goals that are set. And don't try

to fix " everything " at once. Pick a few problems to focus on at a time

and keep it age/stage appropriate as well. If his fine motor is

extremely poor, for instance, pushing him to write better would be a

waste of time and energy. Instead, I would focus on other areas while

he matures in fine motor and practices fine motor skills. It's a

balance to be sure.

In a group of kids when you know he is easily overwhelmed or might be,

you could bring a tote along with other things for him to play with so

he can leave one situation and have other options. Also, as

said, you can teach him how to let you know he's had too much. It's a

process and may take some work to get him to do it! But start now and

you'll eventually get there. Let him know before he enters a new

situation what the rules are. Remind him how to handle problems that

you know he already has. Another option to shelley's is to give him a

signal he can use to let you know he's falling apart if he has trouble

verbalizing in those situations.

But definitely, moving him out of the main area to preserve some

dignity and remove attention is important. having your dh make snide

remarks during the situation was a bit unhelpful (ha!). You could try

to get him involved in problem solving for some of the behaviors that

are bothering him and talking with him about facts and not feelings. I

mean, it's easy to be embarrassed because our kid is doing something

immature or making a scene. But look at facts - such as, " He can't

handle being with a group of kids for more than 30 minutes in a free

play situation. " or " He does not have the coping skills to tell us he

is overwhelmed yet. " Now how can you deal with/manage this? If your

dh then says you should spank him or yell at him or whatever - you can

point out that he's done those things and the problem is still

there...meaning his plan isn't working. Try to get him to see that his

way is not working and if you can just find a happy middle ground

between your method and his, you might help your ds learn better coping

skills. The emphasis would be on teaching him the skills he needs to

manage and cope. He may try if you make it a " team " effort. If he

just refuses to collaborate with you, then perhaps you should see a

counselor together to work on things.

Roxanna

" The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do

nothing. " E. Burke

( ) When to " PUSH " and when to " Back off " ...

Hey all

 

I’m in need of some of your excellent guidance again…

 

My husband and I are at COMPLETE odds over our Aspie son. He’s9yrs old,

and in grade 4. My husband seems to think I let him manipulate me,and I

see it different (obviously LOL). I think my husband pushes him too

much,and in areas where he’s not ABLE… instead of not WILLING (As my

husband viewsit). The thing is… our aspie comes to me all the time. He

won’t go NEAR myhusband, he won’t let him say a word, he doesn’t

respect him, trust him, go tohim for comfort, nothing… because when it

comes to most things, my husbandshrugs it off and tells him he

shouldn’t be affected by that, or shouldn’t beupset by that, or

shouldn’t let his “brain do thatâ€.

 

Can anyone, in a generalistic way… share with me yourexperiences with

knowing when is a good time to “push them†beyond theirboundaries in a

learning type of way, and when to respect their limitations,and back

off, because pushing is going to do nothing but force a meltdown?

Where is the line between them “knowing what to do to get out of doing

thingsthey find uncomfortableâ€, and being unable to cope, and only

reacting becauseof their disability, and us having to give them what

they need at thatparticular moment?

 

EXAMPLE… Christmas, as we all know, is an overwhelming time ofyear as

it is. On the last day of school for the kids (and the inevitable

buildup of stress during the previous couple of weeks for our boy), we

went to myhusband’s cousins new house for a quick visit. It was agreed

it would be aquick visit. We got there, and actually went off to

play with theirchildren for a bit, but quickly came back upset because

they were playing rough(and he’s SO Not into that). SO I set him up in

the living room to watchChristmas shows, and the cousin got him some

gingerale and a cookie, and lifewas good. He was content this way for

about 30mins, and then completely lostit. It was obvious that he’d hit

his breaking point. He melted into a pile ofgoo on the floor, sobbing

that heart aching sob, not the “fakey†cry, which Iknow the difference

of… and screaming, kicking, etc… saying “I WANT TO GO BUYMILK AND GO

HOME!†(he knew we were out) So… I got up from the table where we’dbeen

visiting, and went over to comfort him and let him know we’d wrap

thingsup and be on our way (we’d been there over an hour already

anyway, and it wasgetting late). As I was walking over to him, my

husband said to the table ofpeople “See, ’s figured out that if

he thrashes on the floor, he can getwhat he wants.†Needless to say, I

was upset. I spun around and said “That isNOT how this works.â€

 

I then gathered up , and our other son, got their bootsand coats

on, thanked my husband’s cousin, and told her to tell DH we’d bewaiting

in the truck.

 

Then comes the next issue… we live in a rural area, and thereare no

streetlights. It is PITCH BLACK here at night. Like… can’t see 2 feet

infront of you dark. *I* find it creepy, and I’m an adult without

sensoryissues Anyway… it petrifies , even when we’re in the

truck with thelights on, and he has a flashlight in his hand (Which he

did). Hubby left uswaiting in the truck for 10mins before coming out to

take us to buy milk and gohome – and he thinks that I  “let

manipulate meâ€â€¦ and doesn’t quite seewhy I was so upset for the comment

he made to his cousins.

 

Did I not push enough? Did he manipulate me in that moment?

 

Guidance please… thanks all

 

=)

[Guest guest]

Sometimes I'm not sure when my son is acting up because he can't help it or

because he's a normal teenager. But I think the meltdowns you are experiencing

are something that he really can't control. Sounds like he has a high level of

anxiety, like my son, and so needs a lot of reassurance. He's lucky to have

someone like you around that he can go to and feel safe.

Try talking to your son to ask him to think about how he feels just before he

melts down. Maybe you can point out things that you notice that he does - like

changes in his body language, throat clearing, or facial expressions. Then ask

him to pay attention to his feelings and how his body is reacting so he will

notice when he is starting to loose control. Ask him to think of something that

he can do to quietly help calm himself down and not disturb others - like pull

out a hand-held game, put on headphones and listen to music, draw, read a book,

find a computer, and so on. When my son was younger, I used to travel with a bag

full of puzzles, games, play doh, books, snacks - just stuff that could be used

to distract him if he got restless. On airplanes I always included something new

in his bag that I could pull out in an emergency because I knew it would hold

his attention for a long time.

When we go someplace new, I run through a list of what to expect - how long we

will be there, who will be there, what the food will be like, what to do if he's

bored. I still do that even tho my son is older. It really seems to help him be

more at ease.

Maybe when you visit someone, as soon as you walk in the door you could show him

some place he can go in the house or some person he can go to for help if he

starts to feel overwhelmed or is bored. I remember that when my son was younger

he really had a hard time going to new places or visiting family.

Your son really can't help feeling overwhelmed at times, but he really needs to

find ways to keep himself from losing control and to calm himself down.