Re: early ocd signs?

[Guest guest]

It sounds like OCD issues. Prozac can increase

anxiety. It can also cause increased agitation. It can in bipolar

kids make them more manic.

I look for increases in negative symptoms

in the first few weeks of a dose increase. I have seen decrease

or no change in increases in the first weeks of a dose increase.

My daughter's own OCD traits surface when anxiety is high. I have

seen severe OCD issues prior to starting zoloft so I know it is not the cause

for my daughter.

Here we are winter and I am seeing a big increase in my daughter's

anxiety issues, she is much more negative, says depressing statements about

herself, is more OCD (contamination issues).

I did increase her dose this very weekend. She started on 25mg

zoloft in the summer (panic disappeared), 50 mg(not much change),

now we are going up to 75mg.

If possible don't let the rituals get worse. I often bribe the positive

opposite. Get something for touching germy things.

Don't agree with any of the rituals tell her if she

takes a few deep breathes the feeling to do a ritual

will start to not feel so strong.

My daughter will not participate in therapy for OCD. OCD

therapy is suppose to be highly effective. The treatment

plan is called ERP exposure response prevention. I have

read some of the books on pediatric OCD in the hope at least

I don't want to make her issues worse.

Some cities have an OCD foundation and that is how you find the

therapist. Dr. March on the east coast wrote a textbook

on OCD he is one of the pediatric experts.

Basically the ERP therapy involves doing the positive

opposite, bossing back anxiety (perhaps an abstract idea

for our AS kids), realizing that the anxiety is reduced

by not doing the ritual even though the feeling is that

you have too do it.

Some kids that can't take more SSRI's use benzo type tranquilers

like klonopin. But in some young kids (under 16) it increases

anxiety but can be helpful even in the Bipolar population

that can't take a SSRI. The benzo's do intially make

kids feel kind of drunk and some don't like that intial

feeling. So that is sometimes prescribed.

There are many meds for OCD it is one of the most widely

studied pediatric anxiety disorder and kids with OCD usually

need very high doses of SSRI's to get relief.

I hope it is a winter school stress related issue and

will be reduced sooner than later. Many OCD kids

have increased OCD after illness. Another possible

trigger.

Best of luck!!!!!

Pam

>

> My 13 yo aspie daughter has suffered from general anxiety for some time.

> mostly she fears dying from germs and parasitic worms. She started Prozac

> this summer and it helps. about 5 months ago, she has taken to biting her

> nails and the skin around them. I asked her psych what I should do and he

> suggested chewing a pencil and increasing her dosage. my daughter wont chew

> a pencil but I slightly increased her Prozac. I bought her some great chew

> toys (for older kids) which she sometimes uses, but the bottom line is she

> wants to bite her nails right now. I began to notice that she was lining

> things up, making sure things were even. One day when I was changing the

> newspaper in the bottom of the bird cage, she became upset with me because

> the paper was not laid out evenly. I talked to her about this new

> development and she said it all began when she was given a combination lock

> for her pe clothes this year. she liked the turning of the dial one way and

> then the other and how if it wasn't done just right, the lock wouldn't open.

> She told me she enjoys opening and closing the lock several times and this

> has lead her to seek evenness in other things. believing it will stave off

> bad luck. When I shared this with her therapist she suggested increasing

> her dosage again. which I was able to do but each week it seems there is

> something else she is adding to her (rituals). Last night her homework

> assignment had her underlining and double underlining parts of sentences.

> This took her hours to do because the lines were not even.

>

>

>

> I am wondering if increasing the dosage of Prozac can bring on ocd symptoms.

> Have any of you heard of this? or if it is just a natural development for

> her, is it correct to assume, it is better to stop the behaviors before they

> become too habitual---or are they just replaced with something else? what

> is your experience with ocd?

>

>

>

> I am not impressed with the psych and therapists easy answer to increase

> the meds although they may be correct. where her dosage of 2.5mg Prozac was

> working well for her anger and rigidity as well as her anxiety, I have

> increased her to 3.5mg to help with the nail biting (didn't help) and her

> new rituals (also didn't help). Any higher dosage and her stomach and

> intestines will cramp up and all that.

>

>

>

> Regards, melody

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Melody

My daughter did a type of exposure therapy to help with the thunderstorms ocd

issues. This was combined with regular talk therapy. The problem we had was that

we couldn't control her " exposure " to the real storms so the therapy didn't work

the way it was supposed to. I hate to ask this but has she ever seen any of the

shows currently on tv who show people with severe ocd problems such as germs,

etc.? It might make her more motivated to stop the ocd behavior before it gets

out of hand.

a

> >

> > My 13 yo aspie daughter has suffered from general anxiety for some time.

> > mostly she fears dying from germs and parasitic worms. She started Prozac

> > this summer and it helps. about 5 months ago, she has taken to biting her

> > nails and the skin around them. I asked her psych what I should do and he

> > suggested chewing a pencil and increasing her dosage. my daughter wont chew

> > a pencil but I slightly increased her Prozac. I bought her some great chew

> > toys (for older kids) which she sometimes uses, but the bottom line is she

> > wants to bite her nails right now. I began to notice that she was lining

> > things up, making sure things were even. One day when I was changing the

> > newspaper in the bottom of the bird cage, she became upset with me because

> > the paper was not laid out evenly. I talked to her about this new

> > development and she said it all began when she was given a combination lock

> > for her pe clothes this year. she liked the turning of the dial one way and

> > then the other and how if it wasn't done just right, the lock wouldn't open.

> > She told me she enjoys opening and closing the lock several times and this

> > has lead her to seek evenness in other things. believing it will stave off

> > bad luck. When I shared this with her therapist she suggested increasing

> > her dosage again. which I was able to do but each week it seems there is

> > something else she is adding to her (rituals). Last night her homework

> > assignment had her underlining and double underlining parts of sentences.

> > This took her hours to do because the lines were not even.

> >

> >

> >

> > I am wondering if increasing the dosage of Prozac can bring on ocd symptoms.

> > Have any of you heard of this? or if it is just a natural development for

> > her, is it correct to assume, it is better to stop the behaviors before they

> > become too habitual---or are they just replaced with something else? what

> > is your experience with ocd?

> >

> >

> >

> > I am not impressed with the psych and therapists easy answer to increase

> > the meds although they may be correct. where her dosage of 2.5mg Prozac was

> > working well for her anger and rigidity as well as her anxiety, I have

> > increased her to 3.5mg to help with the nail biting (didn't help) and her

> > new rituals (also didn't help). Any higher dosage and her stomach and

> > intestines will cramp up and all that.

> >

> >

> >

> > Regards, melody

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It does sound like OCD. I copies this from the OCD Foundation website for the

part about children/teens:

**The best dose of OCD medicine should be determined on an individual basis.

Children should start at a lower dose than teens, but OCD symptoms often need to

be treated with higher, adult-sized doses. If a child has difficulty swallowing

pills, a liquid or other version may be available. The following dose ranges

may be necessary:

citalopram (Celexa®): 10-60 mg/day

escitalopram (Lexapro®): 10-20 mg/day

fluvoxamine (Luvox®): 50-300 mg/day

fluoxetine (Prozac®): 10-80 mg/day

paroxetine (Paxil®): 10-60 mg/day

sertaline (Zoloft®): 50-200 mg/day

clomipramine (Anafranil®): 50-200 mg/day **

So your daughter does have some room to go up on her Prozac. OCD can increase

when beginning a medication or when increasing dosage, but should subside. I

know when you first begin a medication and the OCD seems to increase, they say

that can be a good sign that it will help. People respond differently to each

medication, may have to try one, doesn't help or has side effects so try

another.... What I mean is like my son took Celexa and it worked great for him;

another child may not be able to take Celexa, might have unwanted effects or

just not help. I will say that one doctor told me he found Celexa to work well

for those with Aspergers, but then again not all kids are alike! So if you feel

Prozac isn't *the* medication, you might ask about switching to another, but you

do have room to move up on dosage to treat the OCD.

Just some thoughts, hope this helps!

>

> My 13 yo aspie daughter has suffered from general anxiety for some time.

> mostly she fears dying from germs and parasitic worms. She started Prozac

> this summer and it helps. about 5 months ago, she has taken to biting her

> nails and the skin around them. I asked her psych what I should do and he

[Guest guest]

Hi pam:

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I was out of

town for the weekend and didn’t have internet.

Thank you for these great suggestions. I have

followed your posts for awhile now and understand you have set up a good system

of performance and rewards. I do admire and appreciate the work involved

in maintaining the system. i have had some success using rewards but I am

so forgetful, that I lose track.

I am sorry you and your daughter are going thru a rough time.

it is hard to watch when our children are feeling down. under

normal circumstances, we would believe these down times to be temporary. But

with our aspie kids, this is not necessarily the case so this causes us to

worry more. I struggle, as we all do here, with knowing how much to

do for aspies children and how much I should leave up to them to work thru on their

own. When I find myself not knowing which to do, I find a

time she is calm, and talk to her about it. try and get a sense of where

she is at and if she has any ideas for solutions or if she recognizes that this

is just pms, or left over feelings from something that happened, etc. she

responds very well to humor. And there are a few lines/quotes from

various movies/tv shows that made her laugh and she enjoys hearing or repeating.

This almost always improves her feelings.

I have been wondering if avoiding the rituals was the way to

go. Sometimes she is more receptive to suggestions than other times.

I know conversations about her nail biting does not work and I am concerned that

stopping that may result in a behavior that is more damaging. so

for now we work focus on the rituals.

Thanx again, hope the winter negativity turns soon.

Regards, melody

[Guest guest]

Hi chris:

Sorry took so long to get back to you, I was out of town and

not with internet for the weekend.

Thanx for all the info on the meds. we are new to

meds. tried paxil about one year ago with poor results and began Prozac this

summer with very good results. it has eased her agitation and anger

immensely and she is not so rigid. I believed her anxiety had decreased

but now wonder if it just morphed into other behaviors. However, I enjoy the

good parts of the Prozac and would not want to give it up.

For now, I have decided to cut back on the Prozac for a

couple weeks and see if that help reduce the ocd behaviors.

Regards, melody

[Guest guest]

Hi paula:

Sorry took so long to get back, I was out of town for the

weekend.

Yes, that is the problem with exposure therapy. it is

hard to recreate some situations so that one can be exposed. So your

daughter can now tolerate the thunderstorms? What do you credit that

improvement to? My daughter has always been sensitive to loud sounds

especially when they are sudden—the toilet flushing, the garbage trucks,

the garage door closing, the school cafeteria. When megan was 7 or 8

(before diagnosis), she was excited to have received a rare invitation to a

party at john’s incredible pizza. I wasn’t allowed to go into

the party room because the host would have to pay extra $, so I sat in a

waiting area. the party room was all glass so I could see her. at

some point, the other kids were running around laughing and screaming—having

kid fun. But my daughter just froze and started crying. We pulled

her out and she said she would never go back. The school cafeteria at

lunch was horrible for her when she was younger. I wish I had known then

what I know now, as I would have pushed stronger for alternatives. However,

by 5th grade, she was able to tolerate the

cafeteria and these other sounds. I don’t know if it was the

continued “exposure” or maturity.

I have watched the show called OBSESSED last spring or early

summer? with great interest. At the time, megan was not exhibiting ocd

behaviors. However now, I think it would be a good learning tool to show

her where her behaviors could lead. I don’t know if I can access

these shows however, I will try. Thanx for the idea.

Regards, melody

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Melody

My daughter's thunderstorm phobia became better after we had a long period of

drought here in Georgia. Her therapist told her even single child she was

working with who had the storm phobia got better during this time.

I've decided to let my daughter bite her nails because the other OCD stuff she

does is worse. I feel like I have to " pick my poison " sometimes.

a

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi paula:

I hear ya!

melody

[Guest guest]

Hi Melody! The NJ OCD foundation has DVD's for parents for sale from some of

their conferences. I have found them helpful too.

http://www.njocf.org/VideoTapes.htm

Pam

>

> Hi pam:

>

>

>

> Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I was out of town for the weekend

> and didn't have internet.

>

>

>

> Thank you for these great suggestions. I have followed your posts for

> awhile now and understand you have set up a good system of performance and

> rewards. I do admire and appreciate the work involved in maintaining the

> system. i have had some success using rewards but I am so forgetful, that I

> lose track.

>

>

>

> I am sorry you and your daughter are going thru a rough time. it is hard

> to watch when our children are feeling down. under normal circumstances, we

> would believe these down times to be temporary. But with our aspie kids,

> this is not necessarily the case so this causes us to worry more. I

> struggle, as we all do here, with knowing how much to do for aspies

> children and how much I should leave up to them to work thru on their own.

> When I find myself not knowing which to do, I find a time she is calm, and

> talk to her about it. try and get a sense of where she is at and if she has

> any ideas for solutions or if she recognizes that this is just pms, or left

> over feelings from something that happened, etc. she responds very well to

> humor. And there are a few lines/quotes from various movies/tv shows that

> made her laugh and she enjoys hearing or repeating. This almost always

> improves her feelings.

>

>

>

> I have been wondering if avoiding the rituals was the way to go. Sometimes

> she is more receptive to suggestions than other times. I know conversations

> about her nail biting does not work and I am concerned that stopping that

> may result in a behavior that is more damaging. so for now we work focus

> on the rituals.

>

>

>

> Thanx again, hope the winter negativity turns soon.

>

>

>

> Regards, melody

>