Re: Here's my intro....

[Guest guest]

Dear First of all welcome to our online support group!I just took a look at your website. It's AMAZING! Thank you so much for posting that. The photos really help to see the changes. You are a true testimonial!

I thought it was very interesting how the gluten and dairy made you gain weight and get sicker, particularly when you started eating healthier (raw milk and sprouted bread). I need to go back and read your pages more thoroughly -- I skipped through rather quickly -- wanted to see what happened next!

Are you following the SCD diet fully now? Are you taking probiotic supplements at all (forgive me if you said already)? Are you taking other fermented foods (other than the homemade yogurt I mean)? Like kombucha or coconut water kefir or sauerkraut?

I'm really curious to know exactly what you are eating now on a daily basis. Are you still totally dairy and gluten free? Can you eat any dairy or do you have a reaction? Have you ever tried eating homemade sourdough to see if you have a reaction? Also curious to know specific improvements in your son's health.

I actually think the BioKult would help - but I need to read more to find out what you are doing. I'm still learning about all of this but I think it is so exciting.I'm going to reread your site when I get done working today -- and will respond more fully.

Ann MarieOn Feb 4, 2008 2:03 PM, Kuykendall <windravyn@...> wrote:

KDayton, Ohio, USASCD since June 2006, redid intro June 2007Vit K protocol Sept 2007Myself and 2 kids are SCD, hubby is ever so very very slowlytransitioning to it but is so addicted to sugar. Conditions we are

treating successfully with SCD: Hashimoto's Thyroiditis (autoimmune),Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Rheumatoid Arthritis, leakygut, IBS, ADD, ADHD, chronic diarrhea, yeast/candida, and salicylateintolerance.

Read our journal here: http://windraven.smugmug.com/gallery/1651983 " All diseases begin in the gut " - Hypocrites (460-370 BC)

[Guest guest]

Hi Ann Marie. Thanks for the warm welcome and the kind words about my

journal. When I started it I wanted it to inspire not only myself, but

others with similar health issues as well. It needs a lot of updating

and organizing, it is such a mess right now, and needs more info about

my son's journey, but I never seem to find the time these days..

Yes, we are 100% strict SCD by the pecanbread guidelines right now. We

redid the intro diet back in June of 2007 and have been slowly trying

to progress through the stages. My son's digestive system is a

complete mess and he can't digest much at all properly. Right now the

only carbs that don't give him outright diarrhea are tomato juice,

small amounts of honey, really ripe bananas, butternut squash if

cooked to death and pureed, carrots if cooked to death and pureed,

small amounts of well cooked spinach and watercress (I usually simmer

them in broth of some sort for a long time), and garlic. That is it.

We do a lot of healthy fats olive oil, lard, raw butter, coconut oil,

etc to counter such a low carb menu. I recently added in avocado, to

get some more carb into the diet and am awaiting the next poop to see

how it went this time around. (last time we tried it was a blow out).

The jury is still out on homemade nut butter as well. Luckily my son

is still thriving and hasn't lost a lot of weight, so I guess things

are going okay calorie-wise and all.

For probiotics, in addition to the homemade yogurt, we take 9 billion

L. acidophilus a day and we take s. boulardii which is a friendly

yeast. We just started both of those recently.

We don't do any other fermented foods right now because the veggies

and fruits that my son can tolerate are so limited. I, myself, tried

some cabbage juice recently and it gave me the most horrible gas and

cramps. I am thinking of trying some fermented ginger carrots sometime

soon though. That might be an easy one to start with. I was told on

pecanbread that coconut and kefir were really advanced foods that

shouldn't be tried until much farther along with the healing so we

don't do those right now either.

We are still completely gluten free (and grain free). I also have high

copper issues, so foods high in copper, like most grains, give me an

issue even if I could digest them. My son's system is so fragile right

now that I wouldn't even think of trying grains at this point. I hope

someday after more healing that we can return to a diet that includes

sprouted grains and sourdough etc. But right now I'd just settle for

more fruits and veggies.

We can tolerate some dairy. We are fine with butter. We can eat butter

by the pound if we want, LOL. I thought for the longest time we were

okay with cow yogurt dripped into cream cheese (we can't tolerate it

undripped) but now I'm not so sure and I'm double checking that. We

are switching to goat yogurt for a while. We can tolerate goat cheddar

style cheese that has been aged over 90 days (eliminates most of the

lactose). We can't tolerate cow cheeses.

The specific improvements in my son's health: he went from having such

loose stools, with undigested food chunks, that he was unable to potty

train, that he would soak his entire outfit, including his socks (even

with a diaper on!!!) to having the first formed, normal poop of his

life when we redid the intro diet fanatically and by the book. Since

then he still has loose-ish stools but they look more formed and he

potty trained practically overnight (it was within a few weeks of

doing the intro diet). If we could live on the intro diet, he'd

probably still have perfectly formed stools, but I gotta get some

nutrition into him, LOL. He sleeps through the night most nights now

(I'd say 95% of nights these days and that too was like an instant

change when we did the fanatical intro). His behavior, aggression,

wildness, etc improved 70%. He still has hyper issues and focus

issues, but has more good days than bad now. We are still fine tuning

this problem.

Yes, I think maybe Bio-Kult would help. I keep feeling that there is

something that I'm missing. Something that he needs or something that

I'm doing wrong that is stalling his progress in adding in more foods.

But I'm also afraid that the bifidus in it could really do damage if

that is not what he needs. On SCD they talk about the danger that

bifidus could overgrow for those of us doing SCD and that the flare

from that is really hard to heal from. I am so fearful of trying

something that could set us back a year or more and force us to start

over. The gains that we have made are precious and I fear derailing.

Yet I also fear never progressing because his gut needs more powerful

probiotics. LOL. Yeah, I'm just wishy washy, on the fence. uggh

Well, thanks again for the welcome. Let me know if I answered all your

questions or not.

K

Dayton, Ohio, USA

SCD since June 2006, redid intro June 2007

Myself and 2 kids are SCD, hubby is ever so very very slowly

transitioning to it but is so addicted to sugar. Conditions we are

treating successfully with SCD: Hashimoto's Thyroiditis (autoimmune),

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Rheumatoid Arthritis, leaky

gut, IBS, ADD, ADHD, chronic diarrhea, yeast/candida, and salicylate

intolerance.

Read our journal here: http://windraven.smugmug.com/gallery/1651983

" All diseases begin in the gut " - Hypocrites (460-370 BC)

[Guest guest]

I forgot to mention that we did try going off of SCD briefly in the

winter of 2006. I had just started using digestive enzymes and I

thought that if we stuck to low copper grains prepared properly by

soaking or sprouting that we would do okay. We did soaked quinoa and

NT prepared rice, and lime soaked corn etc. After a few months, I

started to develop a sensitivity to rice because we were eating it

several times a week. My son's behavior became very problematic and

his poop was a complete mess. I hadn't noticed the improvement on SCD

because I was focused on my health at the time, but I sure noticed the

regression that occurred in my son when we left SCD. That was actually

what made me come to terms with the fact that he had behavior and

digestive issues and I went running back to SCD to heal his gut.

K

>

> Hi Ann Marie. Thanks for the warm welcome and the kind words about my

> journal. When I started it I wanted it to inspire not only myself, but

> others with similar health issues as well. It needs a lot of updating

> and organizing, it is such a mess right now, and needs more info about

> my son's journey, but I never seem to find the time these days..

>

> Yes, we are 100% strict SCD by the pecanbread guidelines right now. We

> redid the intro diet back in June of 2007 and have been slowly trying

> to progress through the stages. My son's digestive system is a

> complete mess and he can't digest much at all properly. Right now the

> only carbs that don't give him outright diarrhea are tomato juice,

> small amounts of honey, really ripe bananas, butternut squash if

> cooked to death and pureed, carrots if cooked to death and pureed,

> small amounts of well cooked spinach and watercress (I usually simmer

> them in broth of some sort for a long time), and garlic. That is it.

> We do a lot of healthy fats olive oil, lard, raw butter, coconut oil,

> etc to counter such a low carb menu. I recently added in avocado, to

> get some more carb into the diet and am awaiting the next poop to see

> how it went this time around. (last time we tried it was a blow out).

> The jury is still out on homemade nut butter as well. Luckily my son

> is still thriving and hasn't lost a lot of weight, so I guess things

> are going okay calorie-wise and all.

>

> For probiotics, in addition to the homemade yogurt, we take 9 billion

> L. acidophilus a day and we take s. boulardii which is a friendly

> yeast. We just started both of those recently.

>

> We don't do any other fermented foods right now because the veggies

> and fruits that my son can tolerate are so limited. I, myself, tried

> some cabbage juice recently and it gave me the most horrible gas and

> cramps. I am thinking of trying some fermented ginger carrots sometime

> soon though. That might be an easy one to start with. I was told on

> pecanbread that coconut and kefir were really advanced foods that

> shouldn't be tried until much farther along with the healing so we

> don't do those right now either.

>

> We are still completely gluten free (and grain free). I also have high

> copper issues, so foods high in copper, like most grains, give me an

> issue even if I could digest them. My son's system is so fragile right

> now that I wouldn't even think of trying grains at this point. I hope

> someday after more healing that we can return to a diet that includes

> sprouted grains and sourdough etc. But right now I'd just settle for

> more fruits and veggies.

>

> We can tolerate some dairy. We are fine with butter. We can eat butter

> by the pound if we want, LOL. I thought for the longest time we were

> okay with cow yogurt dripped into cream cheese (we can't tolerate it

> undripped) but now I'm not so sure and I'm double checking that. We

> are switching to goat yogurt for a while. We can tolerate goat cheddar

> style cheese that has been aged over 90 days (eliminates most of the

> lactose). We can't tolerate cow cheeses.

>

> The specific improvements in my son's health: he went from having such

> loose stools, with undigested food chunks, that he was unable to potty

> train, that he would soak his entire outfit, including his socks (even

> with a diaper on!!!) to having the first formed, normal poop of his

> life when we redid the intro diet fanatically and by the book. Since

> then he still has loose-ish stools but they look more formed and he

> potty trained practically overnight (it was within a few weeks of

> doing the intro diet). If we could live on the intro diet, he'd

> probably still have perfectly formed stools, but I gotta get some

> nutrition into him, LOL. He sleeps through the night most nights now

> (I'd say 95% of nights these days and that too was like an instant

> change when we did the fanatical intro). His behavior, aggression,

> wildness, etc improved 70%. He still has hyper issues and focus

> issues, but has more good days than bad now. We are still fine tuning

> this problem.

>

> Yes, I think maybe Bio-Kult would help. I keep feeling that there is

> something that I'm missing. Something that he needs or something that

> I'm doing wrong that is stalling his progress in adding in more foods.

> But I'm also afraid that the bifidus in it could really do damage if

> that is not what he needs. On SCD they talk about the danger that

> bifidus could overgrow for those of us doing SCD and that the flare

> from that is really hard to heal from. I am so fearful of trying

> something that could set us back a year or more and force us to start

> over. The gains that we have made are precious and I fear derailing.

> Yet I also fear never progressing because his gut needs more powerful

> probiotics. LOL. Yeah, I'm just wishy washy, on the fence. uggh

>

> Well, thanks again for the welcome. Let me know if I answered all your

> questions or not.

>

> K

> Dayton, Ohio, USA

> SCD since June 2006, redid intro June 2007

> Myself and 2 kids are SCD, hubby is ever so very very slowly

> transitioning to it but is so addicted to sugar. Conditions we are

> treating successfully with SCD: Hashimoto's Thyroiditis (autoimmune),

> Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Rheumatoid Arthritis, leaky

> gut, IBS, ADD, ADHD, chronic diarrhea, yeast/candida, and salicylate

> intolerance.

> Read our journal here: http://windraven.smugmug.com/gallery/1651983

>

> " All diseases begin in the gut " - Hypocrites (460-370 BC)

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I am not as familiar with the SCD diet. I don't have that book -- although I have looked at the website. I have just read the McBride GAPS book. My husband and I and our 9-month-old baby just started on the Biokult 2 weeks ago. We are not fully on the GAPS diet yet -- although we have been avoiding grains and milk. I still drink kefir and eat the cream cheese -- what you call SCD yogurt. And have still been eating cheese. But like I said, we haven't officially started. I'm still learning about what is all involved.

I don't have leaky gut and don't think the baby does. DH does -- we think.

From what I understand, and I could be incorrect on this, Dr. McBride has taken the SCD diet even further -- beyond SCD. I don't know enough about the SCD diet to know for sure if this is true -- but I think so.

Excuse my ignorance -- with the SCD diet, can you eventually eat gluten and dairy?

I'm very curious about why this issue about bifidum with the SCD folks. Why illegal?Can you tell me more about " copper issues " ?My history: I cured myself of candida in my mid-twenties with a gluten-free candida diet (basically no wheat, sugar or fruit), immune-supporting supplements (including vitamin C and bovine thyums gland) and therapeutic doses of probiotics. I had a bad case of yeast overgrowth which caused all kinds of problems including osteo-arthritis, chronic fatigue, respiratory allergies, chronic sinus infections, thrush on tongue, sores in my nose that would not heal, and a host of other minor things. It took a month or two for all my symptoms to go away. I stayed on the program for a couple of years and recovered completely -- to the point that I could go back to eating pretty much anything with no issues.

Fast-forward to last year. I had my first baby (April) and two months later the OBGYN put me on the birth control pill. I didn't realize that that would cause candida. It caused a flare up. I started having allergies again and the sores in my nose came back. I promptly quit the pill (threw the packets away) and started taking probiotics. The ones I bought at the health food store didn't do anything. I was on them for a month and a half -- no change in symptoms. Then I ordered some Threelac online. Within 3 days of taking Threelac (just one packet per day), the sores in my nose disappeared.

Like I said, I don't think I have leaky gut but I do think I can improve my flora. I also want to strengthen my baby's flora (she's 9 mos now). And I want to help DH heal his leaky gut. Which is why I want to learn all about this stuff. For him and for baby. And to a lesser extent for me.

This is my theory -- and I have no proof for it now. I believe that if you heal the intestine (including the wall) and you have a proper balance of intestinal flora, you should be able to eat anything. It could take years to affect this healing -- but if you are healed, you should be able to eat anything and not have any symptoms or problems. The body completely rebuilds itself every 7 years (all the cells) so if you completely changed your gut flora and rebuilt your intestinal wall, I don't see why this would not work.

It is only a theory of course -- but Dr. McBride does say that healed autistic children can eat SAD foods occasionally with no symptoms. Not every day -- but here and there it is no problem. I personally do not want to eat SAD foods every day anyway. But I want to know that if I do eat somethign SAD, it won't cause massive problems.

What do you think about all of that?I also want to learn more about the enzymes you have been taking.Ann Marie

[Guest guest]

PS: Here is my blog: http://cheeseslave.wordpress.com/Since you shared your photos and life story with us -- I wanted to share with you where I am coming from.

I'm glad you found us! And thanks again for sharing your story. Very, very inspirational.Also, if you care to, can you talk more about why you think raw milk and sprouted bread made your symptoms more pronounced? This is very curious to me -- I wonder why these " healthier " foods would cause this reaction.

Ann Marie

[Guest guest]

Also, one more thing -- how much homemade bone broth are you eating? Just wondering because I have been reading a lot about how gelatin works to heal the intestinal wall. Other things that heal it are nettles, kombu and shiitake mushrooms. I also wonder if aloe would help since it heals burns and cuts.

Oh cool -- I just found your FitDay!OK I really have to go to bed now -- it's after 1 am!Cheers!Ann Marie

[Guest guest]

Many of us have food sensitivities. Many times this is caused by a leaky gut. For others, the food issues cause the leaky gut. But, for most, gluten intolerance remains throughout life - soaked, sprouted or processed. Gluten sensitivities run the spectrum from mild all the way up to celiac. At the celiac end of that spectrum, gluten causes damage to delicate villi in the small intestine. The only way to know definitively where you are on the spectrum is an endoscopy, where they do a small intestinal biopsy and look at the villi. Casein intolerance (milk) is also common, although many are able to drink milk raw once they've healed their gut.

In my experience, and I realize this may be controversial but want to open a discussion about it, many of us are not going to be able to heal our guts with foods only. There are some nasty strains of bacteria and parasites out there that have to be exterminated before the digestive tract can return to normal. I believe that supplements and, in some cases, medications, are required to kill off some of the more tenacious critters. The diet is crucial during that process to promote healing and rebalance the flora. But if someone has been on GAPS or SCD for over a year and still experiencing problems, there is an issue that needs to be addressed - either an unrecognized food intolerance or a bug. If you don't know what foods you react to, how can progress be made?

I have been doing GI panels with clients for ten years and can think of many three people, during that entire time, who had a completely normal panel. This is a huge problem in our society.

My GI panel came back with positive antibodies to soy, gluten, and albumin (egg). After several rounds of supplements (never used medications), food elimination, healing protocols, probiotics, etc. I am now able to occasionally eat eggs. I don't eat soy so that's not an issue, but I still can't eat gluten grains without revisiting all the symptoms I had initially. And every once in a while I try! I miss bread

Thanks,

Anne

Also, if you care to, can you talk more about why you think raw milk and sprouted bread made your symptoms more pronounced? This is very curious to me -- I wonder why these "healthier" foods would cause this reaction.Ann Marie

[Guest guest]

Thanks AnneOne question -- you said you try eating bread every once in a while -- have you ever tried eating sourdough bread that is naturally fermented (instead of commercial yeast)?Ann Marie

On Feb 5, 2008 8:15 AM, Anne Fischer-Silva <afischersilva@...> wrote:

gluten grains without revisiting all the symptoms I had initially. And every once in a while I try! I miss bread

Thanks,

Anne

[Guest guest]

Yes, and it doesn't make any difference. I still get a flare-up.

I forgot to mention one other food that many have difficulty with : nuts. Even soaked nuts.

A

Re: [ ] Re: Here's my intro....

Thanks AnneOne question -- you said you try eating bread every once in a while -- have you ever tried eating sourdough bread that is naturally fermented (instead of commercial yeast)?Ann Marie

On Feb 5, 2008 8:15 AM, Anne Fischer-Silva <afischersilvacomcast (DOT) net> wrote:

gluten grains without revisiting all the symptoms I had initially. And every once in a while I try! I miss bread

Thanks,

Anne

[Guest guest]

I never see this talked about on such lists but in

the alternative/natural health community one of the

supplements used most successfully to help heal the

gut is Seacure (go to www.propernutrition.com for

more info). It is a predigested fish protein that

helps the gut rebuild and it decreases inflammation.

It is used extensively with Chron's, IBS and

Ulcerative Colitis. Children with autism have done

very well with it as well. They also make a product

called Intestive - which I haven't used yet - which

combines seacure, colostrum and a soothing herb.

Seacure has low allergy potential because it is

already broken down, is mercury free and doesn't have

a lot of other stuff in it.

Years ago, I did a stupid thing and got a CT scan

with contrast solution. I didn't realize it till

later, but the contrast solution was full of sugar to

make it platable. I drank almost a gallon of the

stuff. My guts raged with candida and inflammation

afterwards. I started eating fermented foods but

could only tolerate a tiny bit. My gut was so

inflammed and my immune system was on total allergic

upregulation mode (lots of auto-immune discomfort).

Seacure was a Godsend - it immediately started

calming things down and enabled me to get through the

die-off and heal faster.

The only caution I have ever heard about Seacure is

that Sally Fallon responded to a post I made about it

on the WAPF practitioner list saying to add more Vit

A to your diet if you are going to increase your

protein intake with Seacure.

I think that diet is key to healing the gut, but that

there are some supplements that can speed up the

healing process - Seacure being one. A lot of people

use L-glutamine but I think it is wiser to use a full

spectrum, whole food protein to keep the aminos balanced.

Barb

Yes, I think maybe Bio-Kult would help. I keep

feeling that there is

something that I'm missing. Something that he needs

or something that

I'm doing wrong that is stalling his progress in

adding in more foods.

But I'm also afraid that the bifidus in it could

really do damage if

that is not what he needs. On SCD they talk about the

danger that

bifidus could overgrow for those of us doing SCD and

that the flare

from that is really hard to heal from. I am so

fearful of trying

something that could set us back a year or more and

force us to start

over. The gains that we have made are precious and I

fear derailing.

Yet I also fear never progressing because his gut

needs more powerful

probiotics. LOL. Yeah, I'm just wishy washy, on the

fence. uggh

Well, thanks again for the welcome. Let me know if I

answered all your

questions or not.

K

Dayton, Ohio, USA

SCD since June 2006, redid intro June 2007

Myself and 2 kids are SCD, hubby is ever so very very

slowly

transitioning to it but is so addicted to sugar.

Conditions we are

treating successfully with SCD: Hashimoto's

Thyroiditis (autoimmune),

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Rheumatoid

Arthritis, leaky

gut, IBS, ADD, ADHD, chronic diarrhea, yeast/candida,

and salicylate

intolerance.

Read our journal here:

http://windraven.smugmug.com/gallery/1651983

" All diseases begin in the gut " - Hypocrites (460-370 BC)

[Guest guest]

Ann Marie,

Where can you buy such sourdough bread? I remember an

article in a Wise Traditions newsletter where the

author mentioned a specific bakery that had a

sourdough bread that was not only tolerated by her

but actually helped heal her gut. For the life of me,

I can't find this article. I email and they pointed

me to an article, but it wasn't there. I wished I had

written the bakery down at the time I read about it!!

Barb

Thanks Anne

One question -- you said you try eating bread every

once in a while -- have

you ever tried eating sourdough bread that is

naturally fermented (instead

of commercial yeast)?

Ann Marie

On Feb 5, 2008 8:15 AM, Anne Fischer-Silva

<afischersilva@...>

wrote:

>

> gluten grains without revisiting all the symptoms

I had initially. And

> every once in a while I try! I miss bread

>

> Thanks,

> Anne

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for mentioning Seacure, Barb. I remember seeing it mentioned once on a WAPF chapter list, and being intrigued by it, but not sure how to evaluate its stated merits. It's always good to hear testimonials about things that really work. Would you recommend it for children? And would the need for increased vitamin A be covered by taking cod liver oil?

RE: [ ] Re: Here's my intro....

I never see this talked about on such lists but inthe alternative/natural health community one of thesupplements used most successfully to help heal thegut is Seacure (go to www.propernutrition.com formore info). It is a predigested fish protein thathelps the gut rebuild and it decreases inflammation.It is used extensively with Chron's, IBS andUlcerative Colitis. Children with autism have donevery well with it as well. They also make a productcalled Intestive - which I haven't used yet - whichcombines seacure, colostrum and a soothing herb.

..

[Guest guest]

I don't know where to buy the sourdough bread but I know how to make it. I bought a sourdough starter at GEM Cultures and then followed the recipe for sourdough bread in Nourishing Traditions.A friend of mine lives in France and she said most of the bread she buys over there at the farmer's market is naturally leavened. She can't eat other gluten but she can eat the French bread.

Ann Marie

[Guest guest]

,

I've used Seacure with many clients - adults and

children - and they all had good results. It really

seems to normalize the stool. I think the increased

need for Vit A would be covered by cod liver oil.

Sometime's I'll use Standard Processes Cataplex A if

a person isn't ready for a lot of concentrated fat.

Sally's comment was that increased protein intake

will decrease Vit A so you need to make sure you get

enough. But, a few caps of Seacure doesn't have a LOT

of protein in it, so I'm not sure if it is really

enough to throw off the balance. Certainly, taking

HCl and improving protein digestion/assimilation is

important too. But, the predigested protein seems to

be more healing than just the protein we eat.

The only other thing I check for when using Seacure

is to make sure the liver can handle it ok.

Sometimes, if someone's liver is really in bad shape,

the extra protein will just stress it more and I'd

work on the liver before giving Seacure. I do muscle

testing to help determine.

Barb

Thank you for mentioning Seacure, Barb. I remember

seeing it mentioned once on a WAPF chapter list, and

being intrigued by it, but not sure how to evaluate

its stated merits. It's always good to hear

testimonials about things that really work. Would you

recommend it for children? And would the need for

increased vitamin A be covered by taking cod liver oil?

RE: [ ] Re: Here's my intro....

I never see this talked about on such lists but in

the alternative/natural health community one of the

supplements used most successfully to help heal the

gut is Seacure (go to www.propernutrition.com for

more info). It is a predigested fish protein that

helps the gut rebuild and it decreases inflammation.

It is used extensively with Chron's, IBS and

Ulcerative Colitis. Children with autism have done

very well with it as well. They also make a product

called Intestive - which I haven't used yet - which

combines seacure, colostrum and a soothing herb.

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[Guest guest]

Re: [ ] Re: Here's my intro....

Many of us have food sensitivities. Many times this is caused by a leaky gut. For others, the food issues cause the leaky gut. But, for most, gluten intolerance remains throughout life - soaked, sprouted or processed. Gluten sensitivities run the spectrum from mild all the way up to celiac. At the celiac end of that spectrum, gluten causes damage to delicate villi in the small intestine. The only way to know definitively where you are on the spectrum is an endoscopy, where they do a small intestinal biopsy and look at the villi. Casein intolerance (milk) is also common, although many are able to drink milk raw once they've healed their gut.

In my experience, and I realize this may be controversial but want to open a discussion about it, many of us are not going to be able to heal our guts with foods only. There are some nasty strains of bacteria and parasites out there that have to be exterminated before the digestive tract can return to normal. I believe that supplements and, in some cases, medications, are required to kill off some of the more tenacious critters. The diet is crucial during that process to promote healing and rebalance the flora. But if someone has been on GAPS or SCD for over a year and still experiencing problems, there is an issue that needs to be addressed - either an unrecognized food intolerance or a bug. If you don't know what foods you react to, how can progress be made?

I have been doing GI panels with clients for ten years and can think of many three people, during that entire time, who had a completely normal panel. This is a huge problem in our society.

My GI panel came back with positive antibodies to soy, gluten, and albumin (egg). After several rounds of supplements (never used medications), food elimination, healing protocols, probiotics, etc. I am now able to occasionally eat eggs. I don't eat soy so that's not an issue, but I still can't eat gluten grains without revisiting all the symptoms I had initially. And every once in a while I try! I miss bread

Thanks,

Anne

Also, if you care to, can you talk more about why you think raw milk and sprouted bread made your symptoms more pronounced? This is very curious to me -- I wonder why these "healthier" foods would cause this reaction.Ann Marie

[Guest guest]

Anne

Who do you order your GI panel through?

Re: [ ] Re: Here's my intro....

Many of us have food sensitivities. Many times this is caused by a leaky gut. For others, the food issues cause the leaky gut. But, for most, gluten intolerance remains throughout life - soaked, sprouted or processed. Gluten sensitivities run the spectrum from mild all the way up to celiac. At the celiac end of that spectrum, gluten causes damage to delicate villi in the small intestine. The only way to know definitively where you are on the spectrum is an endoscopy, where they do a small intestinal biopsy and look at the villi. Casein intolerance (milk) is also common, although many are able to drink milk raw once they've healed their gut.

In my experience, and I realize this may be controversial but want to open a discussion about it, many of us are not going to be able to heal our guts with foods only. There are some nasty strains of bacteria and parasites out there that have to be exterminated before the digestive tract can return to normal. I believe that supplements and, in some cases, medications, are required to kill off some of the more tenacious critters. The diet is crucial during that process to promote healing and rebalance the flora. But if someone has been on GAPS or SCD for over a year and still experiencing problems, there is an issue that needs to be addressed - either an unrecognized food intolerance or a bug. If you don't know what foods you react to, how can progress be made?

I have been doing GI panels with clients for ten years and can think of many three people, during that entire time, who had a completely normal panel. This is a huge problem in our society.

My GI panel came back with positive antibodies to soy, gluten, and albumin (egg). After several rounds of supplements (never used medications), food elimination, healing protocols, probiotics, etc. I am now able to occasionally eat eggs. I don't eat soy so that's not an issue, but I still can't eat gluten grains without revisiting all the symptoms I had initially. And every once in a while I try! I miss bread

Thanks,

Anne

Also, if you care to, can you talk more about why you think raw milk and sprouted bread made your symptoms more pronounced? This is very curious to me -- I wonder why these "healthier" foods would cause this reaction.Ann Marie

[Guest guest]

I tend to agree with Anne that often, food is not enough, especially in our toxic world. Some people really do benefit from homeopathy, whole food supplements, clearing up old emotional wounds, or just getting to bed an hour earlier. That’s why there are so many practitioners like Anne and me who have jumped on the GAPS bandwagon, because we know that the whole principle of GAPS is sound science, and yet it has to be tweaked for each and every individual.

Peace,

On 2/5/08 8:15 AM, " Anne Fischer-Silva " <afischersilva@...> wrote:

Many of us have food sensitivities. Many times this is caused by a leaky gut. For others, the food issues cause the leaky gut. But, for most, gluten intolerance remains throughout life - soaked, sprouted or processed. Gluten sensitivities run the spectrum from mild all the way up to celiac. At the celiac end of that spectrum, gluten causes damage to delicate villi in the small intestine. The only way to know definitively where you are on the spectrum is an endoscopy, where they do a small intestinal biopsy and look at the villi. Casein intolerance (milk) is also common, although many are able to drink milk raw once they've healed their gut.

In my experience, and I realize this may be controversial but want to open a discussion about it, many of us are not going to be able to heal our guts with foods only. There are some nasty strains of bacteria and parasites out there that have to be exterminated before the digestive tract can return to normal. I believe that supplements and, in some cases, medications, are required to kill off some of the more tenacious critters. The diet is crucial during that process to promote healing and rebalance the flora. But if someone has been on GAPS or SCD for over a year and still experiencing problems, there is an issue that needs to be addressed - either an unrecognized food intolerance or a bug. If you don't know what foods you react to, how can progress be made?

I have been doing GI panels with clients for ten years and can think of many three people, during that entire time, who had a completely normal panel. This is a huge problem in our society.

My GI panel came back with positive antibodies to soy, gluten, and albumin (egg). After several rounds of supplements (never used medications), food elimination, healing protocols, probiotics, etc. I am now able to occasionally eat eggs. I don't eat soy so that's not an issue, but I still can't eat gluten grains without revisiting all the symptoms I had initially. And every once in a while I try! I miss bread

Thanks,

Anne

[Guest guest]

Anne,

What GI panels do you recommend? And other than doing a GAPS or other

restrictive diet for a long period of time, how can you know if your

problem is " bad gut bugs " ?? My understanding is that the stool and other

tests are really very crude and that about 98% of the bad gut bugs are

anerobic so they die before they can be detected in the stool. And even

if bad gut bugs are detected, most of us have these, so it is really a

matter of quantity, which is probably hard to measure.

thanks, sue v.

[Guest guest]

Not trying to butt in here, but Metametrix has a new test called GI Effects which will catch the anerobic bugs, we just had this done.

[ ] Re: Here's my intro....

Anne,What GI panels do you recommend? And other than doing a GAPS or otherrestrictive diet for a long period of time, how can you know if yourproblem is "bad gut bugs"?? My understanding is that the stool and othertests are really very crude and that about 98% of the bad gut bugs areanerobic so they die before they can be detected in the stool. And evenif bad gut bugs are detected, most of us have these, so it is really amatter of quantity, which is probably hard to measure.thanks, sue v.

[Guest guest]

I've heard good things about the Metametrix test - haven't tried one on a client yet, though. I use DiagnosTechs GI panel. Having used several other labs, I keep coming back to it. It includes IgA antibody tests for soy, albumin, gliadin. It also tests for IgA antibodies on tapeworms, roundworms, and tissue worms, which are difficult to determine in a stool smear.

Not everyone has "bad gut bugs". Some are severe, others not. I am a huge believer in testing - it's the only way to know what you're dealing with. You can have a reaction to a food up to 36 hours after ingesting it, which makes it impossible to know what sensitivities you have. You can't always look to the last meal.

Anne

[ ] Re: Here's my intro....

Anne,What GI panels do you recommend? And other than doing a GAPS or otherrestrictive diet for a long period of time, how can you know if yourproblem is "bad gut bugs"?? My understanding is that the stool and othertests are really very crude and that about 98% of the bad gut bugs areanerobic so they die before they can be detected in the stool. And evenif bad gut bugs are detected, most of us have these, so it is really amatter of quantity, which is probably hard to measure.thanks, sue v.

[Guest guest]

Actually the autism focused version of SCD, available at

pecanbread.com, and carried on by the long time veterans of SCD that

knew Elaine (the author of Breaking the Vicious Cycle), goes even

further than Dr. McBride. The intro diet is much stricter and you

introduce foods one at a time to test for tolerance. Dr. McBride's

intro is not strict enough in my opinion, allowing too many foods, and

you never get a chance to really test each food for tolerance that

way. My son needed the strict SCD intro. The pecanbread intro also

advises avoiding dairy for a certain amount of time and then testing

for tolerance starting with goat yogurt, much like Dr. McBride

advises. So there really is not much difference overall, just that SCD

is far stricter on the intro diet and the gradual introduction and

challenge of tolerance for the foods than the GAPS version.

On SCD you can't ever eat gluten if you want to continue with the

diet, but there are many that have healed enough to leave SCD and just

eat healthy foods again. You can eat certain types of dairy on SCD if

you find that you tolerate it after doing the intro diet and carefully

introducing it.

The Bifidus issue is a tricky one. Elaine believed that bifidus had a

tendency to overgrow if supplemented and that those doing the SCD were

particularly at risk for overgrowth. She advised against using any

bifidus strains and focused on yogurt and other fermented foods to get

the most probiotics into the body safely.

Thanks for sharing your story with me. It is interesting to read

other's experiences with all of this.

Yes, I believe that once enough healing has taken place that we should

be able to consume any healthy food (I think nourishing traditions,

weston a price are right on as to what is healthy) and even

occasionally consume something not so healthy as long as one doesn't

over indulge. That is my goal line. I want us healed enough to eat

according to weston a price wisdom. We have a long way to go, but that

is my quest.

The copper issue is one that I've found runs heavily in my family. In

us it manifests as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Until I started

addressing my copper zinc balance, I was just always so worn out and

tired. SCD helped some, but some days man were even worse. Once my

body started healing on SCD it was able to tell me even more strongly

how the high copper foods were affecting me. Interestingly enough

copper is also needed to fight fungal infections in the body, well for

those of us with copper overload, we have so much improperly stored

copper in our bodies that we have very little that is bioavailable.

That just sets us up even more for problems with candida. I believe

the copper issue is also connected to improper storage of calcium

which is related to vitamins K2, A, and D. Improper storage of calcium

is related to oxalate issues. I had notes on how all of this was

connected, but my computer crashed recently and I lost it all. I'm

still trying to rebuild my notes on all of that....sigh.

K

>

> Hi,

>

> I am not as familiar with the SCD diet. I don't have that book --

although I

> have looked at the website. I have just read the McBride GAPS book.

>

> My husband and I and our 9-month-old baby just started on the Biokult 2

> weeks ago. We are not fully on the GAPS diet yet -- although we have

been

> avoiding grains and milk. I still drink kefir and eat the cream

cheese --

> what you call SCD yogurt. And have still been eating cheese. But like I

> said, we haven't officially started. I'm still learning about what

is all

> involved.

>

> I don't have leaky gut and don't think the baby does. DH does -- we

think.

>

> From what I understand, and I could be incorrect on this, Dr.

McBride has

> taken the SCD diet even further -- beyond SCD. I don't know enough

about the

> SCD diet to know for sure if this is true -- but I think so.

>

> Excuse my ignorance -- with the SCD diet, can you eventually eat

gluten and

> dairy?

>

> I'm very curious about why this issue about bifidum with the SCD

folks. Why

> illegal?

>

> Can you tell me more about " copper issues " ?

>

> My history: I cured myself of candida in my mid-twenties with a

gluten-free

> candida diet (basically no wheat, sugar or fruit), immune-supporting

> supplements (including vitamin C and bovine thyums gland) and

therapeutic

> doses of probiotics. I had a bad case of yeast overgrowth which

caused all

> kinds of problems including osteo-arthritis, chronic fatigue,

respiratory

> allergies, chronic sinus infections, thrush on tongue, sores in my

nose that

> would not heal, and a host of other minor things. It took a month or

two for

> all my symptoms to go away. I stayed on the program for a couple of

years

> and recovered completely -- to the point that I could go back to eating

> pretty much anything with no issues.

>

> Fast-forward to last year. I had my first baby (April) and two

months later

> the OBGYN put me on the birth control pill. I didn't realize that

that would

> cause candida. It caused a flare up. I started having allergies

again and

> the sores in my nose came back. I promptly quit the pill (threw the

packets

> away) and started taking probiotics. The ones I bought at the health

food

> store didn't do anything. I was on them for a month and a half -- no

change

> in symptoms. Then I ordered some Threelac online. Within 3 days of

taking

> Threelac (just one packet per day), the sores in my nose disappeared.

>

> Like I said, I don't think I have leaky gut but I do think I can

improve my

> flora. I also want to strengthen my baby's flora (she's 9 mos now).

And I

> want to help DH heal his leaky gut. Which is why I want to learn all

about

> this stuff. For him and for baby. And to a lesser extent for me.

>

> This is my theory -- and I have no proof for it now. I believe that

if you

> heal the intestine (including the wall) and you have a proper balance of

> intestinal flora, you should be able to eat anything. It could take

years to

> affect this healing -- but if you are healed, you should be able to eat

> anything and not have any symptoms or problems. The body completely

rebuilds

> itself every 7 years (all the cells) so if you completely changed

your gut

> flora and rebuilt your intestinal wall, I don't see why this would

not work.

>

>

> It is only a theory of course -- but Dr. McBride does say that healed

> autistic children can eat SAD foods occasionally with no symptoms.

Not every

> day -- but here and there it is no problem. I personally do not want

to eat

> SAD foods every day anyway. But I want to know that if I do eat

somethign

> SAD, it won't cause massive problems.

>

> What do you think about all of that?

>

> I also want to learn more about the enzymes you have been taking.

>

> Ann Marie

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for sharing! I'll go check that out....

Well, by the time I switched to raw milk and sprouted grain breads my

digestive system was already a wreck, I just didn't know it. I had all

the generational GAPS stuff passed down to me plus two summers

straight of cortico-steroids for poison ivy. My son got this via

breastmilk as well. I think this is what pushed us over the edge, much

like vaccines to do many. (luckily we didn't fully vaccinate). We had

no good bacteria left at that point and the bad stuff started to

really have its hay day. Well, when we tried these nourishing foods,

raw milk and sprouted grain bread, our system just couldn't handle it.

Casein and gluten are two of the hardest things to digest, and even

with the help of the raw milk, and the grains being sprouted, it just

wasn't enough help for our damaged systems. The casein and the gluten

slipped undigested through our leaky guts and wreaked all kinds of

havoc. I am pretty sure that is what triggered my autoimmune

thyroiditis. The undigested gluten particles are very similar to

thyroid tissue and my body started making antibodies to get rid of all

those gluten particles slipping through my gut. Well because they are

similar to thyroid tissue, what I really did was start making

antibodies to my thyroid. My antibodies to my thyroid were in the

thousands when I got tested. I believe the casein from the milk had a

very similar reaction that resulted in rheumatoid arthritis. It got so

bad that I limped when I walked and even shifting my weight in bed

caused extreme pain. So, even though those foods are healthy foods,

because I wasn't able to digest them properly, they actually made my

health worse. I believe if I had still being eating SAD, that things

would still have gotten bad, it just may have taken a little more time

to build up. But undigested food is bad for you whether it is

processed white flour and skim milk, or it is raw milk and sprouted

grains. If you can't digest it, it isn't nourishing you.

But I call it all good timing, because if it hadn't gotten so bad, I

would have never wanted to do anything about it. I had to hit rock

bottom to begin to figure out what was wrong. This has plagued the

women in my family for generations and I'm the first to really win the

battle. I am grateful that raw milk and gluten made things quickly

worse for me. Very grateful.

K

>

> PS: Here is my blog: http://cheeseslave.wordpress.com/

>

> Since you shared your photos and life story with us -- I wanted to share

> with you where I am coming from.

>

> I'm glad you found us! And thanks again for sharing your story.

Very, very

> inspirational.

>

> Also, if you care to, can you talk more about why you think raw milk and

> sprouted bread made your symptoms more pronounced? This is very

curious to

> me -- I wonder why these " healthier " foods would cause this reaction.

>

> Ann Marie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ann Marie. I usually make a batch of chicken broth once a week and

we use it in soups or just drink it from a mug. I want to make beef

and fish broths as well, but haven't found time just yet to get those

together.

Aloe is illegal on SCD. From breakingtheviciouscycle.info: " It

contains mucilaginous polysaccharides as well as increasing the

release of tumor necrosis factor which is associated with IBD

inflammation and increased immune stimulation. "

Nettle is illegal as well. From breakingtheviciouscycle.info: " Adverse

effects from consuming nettle tea can range from upset stomach to

burning sensations in the skin, difficulty in urination and bloating. "

Mushrooms are legal on SCD.

K

>

> Also, one more thing -- how much homemade bone broth are you eating?

Just

> wondering because I have been reading a lot about how gelatin works

to heal

> the intestinal wall. Other things that heal it are nettles, kombu and

> shiitake mushrooms. I also wonder if aloe would help since it heals

burns

> and cuts.

>

> Oh cool -- I just found your FitDay!

>

> OK I really have to go to bed now -- it's after 1 am!

>

> Cheers!

> Ann Marie

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I agree that there is something still plagueing my son that diet

alone can not correct. That is why I'm looking into increasing

probiotics. We've never been able to tolerate larger amounts of cow

yogurt, so I'm switching to goat to see if we can get some more good

guys in there and have started taking l. acidophilus and s. boulardii.

I'm also going to try some fermented veggies soon.

I found that digestive enzymes really helped end the cycle of the ever

developing food sensitivities due to our leaky guts. Before digestive

enzymes we had to stick to a strict 4 day rotation of foods to get any

relief from our symptoms. With the enzymes we can eat eggs every day

now with no issues. Previously eggs had caused major flares in my

joint pains and fatigue. And enough healing has happened now that we

are needing less and less of the enzymes to get the same results.

K

>

> Many of us have food sensitivities. Many times this is caused by a

leaky gut. For others, the food issues cause the leaky gut. But, for

most, gluten intolerance remains throughout life - soaked, sprouted or

processed. Gluten sensitivities run the spectrum from mild all the

way up to celiac. At the celiac end of that spectrum, gluten causes

damage to delicate villi in the small intestine. The only way to know

definitively where you are on the spectrum is an endoscopy, where they

do a small intestinal biopsy and look at the villi. Casein

intolerance (milk) is also common, although many are able to drink

milk raw once they've healed their gut.

> In my experience, and I realize this may be controversial but want

to open a discussion about it, many of us are not going to be able to

heal our guts with foods only. There are some nasty strains of

bacteria and parasites out there that have to be exterminated before

the digestive tract can return to normal. I believe that supplements

and, in some cases, medications, are required to kill off some of the

more tenacious critters. The diet is crucial during that process to

promote healing and rebalance the flora. But if someone has been on

GAPS or SCD for over a year and still experiencing problems, there is

an issue that needs to be addressed - either an unrecognized food

intolerance or a bug. If you don't know what foods you react to, how

can progress be made?

> I have been doing GI panels with clients for ten years and can think

of many three people, during that entire time, who had a completely

normal panel. This is a huge problem in our society.

> My GI panel came back with positive antibodies to soy, gluten, and

albumin (egg). After several rounds of supplements (never used

medications), food elimination, healing protocols, probiotics, etc. I

am now able to occasionally eat eggs. I don't eat soy so that's not

an issue, but I still can't eat gluten grains without revisiting all

the symptoms I had initially. And every once in a while I try! I

miss bread

>

> Thanks,

> Anne

>

>

>

> Also, if you care to, can you talk more about why you think raw

milk and sprouted bread made your symptoms more pronounced? This is

very curious to me -- I wonder why these " healthier " foods would cause

this reaction.

>

> Ann Marie

>

[Guest guest]

Hmm, interesting, I've never heard of seacure before. I'm not sure I

understand what is so special about it. It is just white fish, right?

We already eat a lot of fish. Can you enlighten me?

K

>

> I never see this talked about on such lists but in

> the alternative/natural health community one of the

> supplements used most successfully to help heal the

> gut is Seacure (go to www.propernutrition.com for

> more info). It is a predigested fish protein that

> helps the gut rebuild and it decreases inflammation.

> It is used extensively with Chron's, IBS and

> Ulcerative Colitis. Children with autism have done

> very well with it as well. They also make a product

> called Intestive - which I haven't used yet - which

> combines seacure, colostrum and a soothing herb.

>

> Seacure has low allergy potential because it is

> already broken down, is mercury free and doesn't have

> a lot of other stuff in it.

>

> Years ago, I did a stupid thing and got a CT scan

> with contrast solution. I didn't realize it till

> later, but the contrast solution was full of sugar to

> make it platable. I drank almost a gallon of the

> stuff. My guts raged with candida and inflammation

> afterwards. I started eating fermented foods but

> could only tolerate a tiny bit. My gut was so

> inflammed and my immune system was on total allergic

> upregulation mode (lots of auto-immune discomfort).

> Seacure was a Godsend - it immediately started

> calming things down and enabled me to get through the

> die-off and heal faster.

>

> The only caution I have ever heard about Seacure is

> that Sally Fallon responded to a post I made about it

> on the WAPF practitioner list saying to add more Vit

> A to your diet if you are going to increase your

> protein intake with Seacure.

>

> I think that diet is key to healing the gut, but that

> there are some supplements that can speed up the

> healing process - Seacure being one. A lot of people

> use L-glutamine but I think it is wiser to use a full

> spectrum, whole food protein to keep the aminos balanced.

>

> Barb

>

>