Re: Wrap-around services

[Guest guest]

Holy cow, Melinda - except for the types of math problems, I could be writing

this post about my 1st grade daughter! Trying and trying to explain in every

way possible and still not getting the point across. Don't you feel like you're

repeatedly slamming into a brick wall? My husband spent well over an hour

trying to bang simple math equations into A's head last night. I was cringing in

the other room because he was getting SO irritated with her each time he had to

spell it out again. I've mentioned this math homework issue to the teacher and

asked her how A does in math in class and she said she does just fine.... makes

me wonder - I have a feeling she is probably getting most of her answers off her

neighbor's paper. When I asked her last night how she gets her math done in

class she told me, " Jojo helps me. " I took that to mean Jojo is likely giving

her the answers and the teacher isn't noticing.

I sat in on A's class yesterday to observe her since the teacher claims she sees

no differences between her and the others. I witnessed classic Aspie behaviors

and could see and feel my daughter's confusion and discomfort in many

situations. I think she's just eeking by using whatever means she can. It seems

that since she's no longer a huge disruption (thanks to the Adderall) the

teacher is able to conveniently ignore the blinking neon sign above this child

saying SHE NEEDS ASSISTANCE!!!!! When A was getting out of her seat and hiding

under desks, meowing or growling at random and inappropriate times,or spinning

in tight circles next to her desk, it was harder to overlook her (obvious to

ME)special needs. Yet, like all through Kindergarten, the teacher is seeing the

end product of what gets turned in, but doesn't see how it's getting done, or

the struggles we have to deal with trying to get homework done.

Sorry for all the info... I'm just so frustrated by all this that the flood gate

opens when I start talking about it!

I'm curious to know if your daughter's problems have compounded over the past

couple of years. I keep hearing that by 3rd grade, when work becomes so much

more demanding, our kids' problems really come to light to the people who don't

see what we see now.

I read what you said about 's teacher (I'm guessing this was 2nd

grade)saying she was 'fine'. I'm in that boat and sooo frustrated by it!

Yesterday when I went to the school to observe, liese told me that she had

to miss 5 minutes of recess because she didn't have her homework. I questioned

the teacher about this and asked her if she told liese to check her

backpack. Her answer was, " Well, no. They just know they're supposed to turn in

their blue folder in the morning, and hers wasn't in the bin. "

EERRGGGHHHHHH!!!!! So I walked over to her cubby and pulled the folder out of

her backpack and gave it to the teacher. The fact that she #1 didn't notice that

the others were all walking up to the bin with their blue folders and realized

she should do the same, and #2 that she allowed herself to be punished for not

doing her homework when she HAD to have known she did, makes it rather obvious

to me that there's something not 'fine' going on.

Good for you that she already has an IEP and an understanding teacher now.

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> Hard to believe I've been on here for 8 years!!!! is a senior this

year. I wish I could give everyone his case manager. He has been the greatest

and biggest asset in all of 's school experience! He's had for the

past 3 years (which has been THE BEST move on the school's part-to allow him to

keep him on his case load.) really respects him and looks up to him. And

the case manager can push him and will respond. It's been wonderful. I

have had the least amount of work to do on my end for the past 3 years than his

whole school time!

>

> Anyhow, just as I am having one leave the system, I have another one coming

up. 's having some auditory issues. I haven't quite been able to pinpoint

what exactly is going on with her. She's been in speech since she was 22 months

for one thing. My husband has an auditory processing disorder, so it wouldn't be

something " new " in the family if she does. She has some aspie tendencies and now

is starting to show some OCD ones. However, we have been unable to get the

school to recognize any problems. We did a child study back in May, and the

teacher sat there and argued that she was FINE! However, by the end of the

meeting, she did finally admit that could have developed coping skills such

as looking at others to see what they were doing. So, it was determined that she

did have some possible auditory issue and needed visuals. They determined that

she would have another child study in conjunction with her IEP in Nov.

>

> We have been blessed with the teacher she received for 3rd-grade. My oldest

daughter had her and we are familiar with her and know she is very educated and

helpful for the kids. She sent home a note about her teaching history and I

found out that she started out her teaching career teaching special education.

So hopefully she'll " see " what we are seeing. Even the speech pathologist blames

her inability to " hear " things correctly on her speech. They claim she writes

like she speaks " . Well, duh, but she isn't fixing things she is corrected on.

Her sentence structure is not always in order and her tenses are out of whack.

>

> My point here is that I worked on a math worksheet with her yesterday. I had

to " spoon feed " her everything. She didn't understand the concepts. Didn't even

have the basic concepts that were needed to figure out the problems. She

couldn't figure out if she had the number 12 and needed to get to the number 17,

how to go about it-whether to add or subtract. Then, she couldn't subtract

2-digit numbers. She'd try and look like she was trying to figure it out in her

head, but she had no idea.

>

> It was the same thing over 4 different times and she didn't understand the

concept whatsoever. Even though I went through it step-by-step, used counters,

etc. Then it went to the same thing in written (problem) form and she definitely

didn't understand it. So, again, I had to spoon feed her.

>

> My problem is that I don't know how to explain it in a way that she

understands it. Even Casey jumped in and tried to help. So, the two of us were

trying to help her with this worksheet that she had no understanding of.

>

> I've never had these types of issues with anyone before and was wondering what

kind of " wrap-around " services might be available. It's been a long time since

I've had to deal with the idea of wrap-around services, and I just wanted a

" heads up " of what I might be able to get for her.

>

> Another thing they are doing right now are factor families where you have

5+1=6 and 1+5=6; 6-1=5 and 6-5=1. She had to write one (after doing several

exercises showing them, and she wrote, 1+5=6 and 5-6=1. Yes, the last one is how

she wrote it. She doesn't realize that 6 is bigger than 5 and unless you want a

negative factor (which they don't do for another 2 years), it doesn't work.

>

> I am so frustrated at this point that I was about in tears because I felt like

I couldn't help her to the point of being able to get her to understand.

>

> I am going to have her tested for auditory once Tom's insurance takes effect.

I started the process this summer, only to find that I had to take her to

another place that didn't take Medicaid. Now that Tom has a job and insurance, I

hope I can get this done before the child study and have more evidence to show.

>

> Thanks for any ideas, or answers to the wrap-around service question.

>

> -Melinda Hall

>

[Guest guest]

Andie,

You said your daughter is in Kindergarten...and you know she has AS....that is Great! Now, keep pushing for an IEP and services for her. Point out the things you saw to the teacher when you were in there...have your daughter tested...I can tell you one thing...you are lucky to have this jump start. A lot people don't find out about their children until later in life...so do everything you can....this way she hopefully will be able to stay on grade level and learn life skills and social skills.

My son was not dx until 3rd grade...3rd grade was difficult for him and 5th is the hardest. He is in 8th now...and it seems a little more relaxed...he barely gets homework but that may be because he is in inclusion classes. My son is okay with math..not great....but his writing and spelling skills stink! He really need to focus on this...I would prefer he had reading, writing and math instead of science or art or music...history is important but I really woulld love the school to go back to the basics.

jan

Janice Rushen

"I will try to be open to all avenues of wisdom and hope"

From: andie6294 <andie6294@...>Subject: ( ) Re: Wrap-around services Date: Friday, September 18, 2009, 10:29 PM

Holy cow, Melinda - except for the types of math problems, I could be writing this post about my 1st grade daughter! Trying and trying to explain in every way possible and still not getting the point across. Don't you feel like you're repeatedly slamming into a brick wall? My husband spent well over an hour trying to bang simple math equations into A's head last night. I was cringing in the other room because he was getting SO irritated with her each time he had to spell it out again. I've mentioned this math homework issue to the teacher and asked her how A does in math in class and she said she does just fine.... makes me wonder - I have a feeling she is probably getting most of her answers off her neighbor's paper. When I asked her last night how she gets her math done in class she told me, "Jojo helps me." I took that to mean Jojo is likely giving her the answers and the teacher isn't noticing.I sat in on A's class yesterday to observe

her since the teacher claims she sees no differences between her and the others. I witnessed classic Aspie behaviors and could see and feel my daughter's confusion and discomfort in many situations. I think she's just eeking by using whatever means she can. It seems that since she's no longer a huge disruption (thanks to the Adderall) the teacher is able to conveniently ignore the blinking neon sign above this child saying SHE NEEDS ASSISTANCE!! !!! When A was getting out of her seat and hiding under desks, meowing or growling at random and inappropriate times,or spinning in tight circles next to her desk, it was harder to overlook her (obvious to ME)special needs. Yet, like all through Kindergarten, the teacher is seeing the end product of what gets turned in, but doesn't see how it's getting done, or the struggles we have to deal with trying to get homework done.Sorry for all the info... I'm just so frustrated by all this that the flood gate

opens when I start talking about it!I'm curious to know if your daughter's problems have compounded over the past couple of years. I keep hearing that by 3rd grade, when work becomes so much more demanding, our kids' problems really come to light to the people who don't see what we see now. I read what you said about 's teacher (I'm guessing this was 2nd grade)saying she was 'fine'. I'm in that boat and sooo frustrated by it! Yesterday when I went to the school to observe, liese told me that she had to miss 5 minutes of recess because she didn't have her homework. I questioned the teacher about this and asked her if she told liese to check her backpack. Her answer was, "Well, no. They just know they're supposed to turn in their blue folder in the morning, and hers wasn't in the bin." EERRGGGHHHHHH! !!!! So I walked over to her cubby and pulled the folder out of her backpack and gave it to the teacher. The fact that she #1

didn't notice that the others were all walking up to the bin with their blue folders and realized she should do the same, and #2 that she allowed herself to be punished for not doing her homework when she HAD to have known she did, makes it rather obvious to me that there's something not 'fine' going on.Good for you that she already has an IEP and an understanding teacher now.>> Hello everyone,> > Hard to believe I've been on here for 8 years!!!! is a senior this year. I wish I could give everyone his case manager. He has been the greatest and biggest asset in all of 's school experience! He's had for the past 3 years (which has been THE

BEST move on the school's part-to allow him to keep him on his case load.) really respects him and looks up to him. And the case manager can push him and will respond. It's been wonderful. I have had the least amount of work to do on my end for the past 3 years than his whole school time! > > Anyhow, just as I am having one leave the system, I have another one coming up. 's having some auditory issues. I haven't quite been able to pinpoint what exactly is going on with her. She's been in speech since she was 22 months for one thing. My husband has an auditory processing disorder, so it wouldn't be something "new" in the family if she does. She has some aspie tendencies and now is starting to show some OCD ones. However, we have been unable to get the school to recognize any problems. We did a child study back in May, and the teacher sat there and argued that she was FINE! However, by the end of the meeting, she did

finally admit that could have developed coping skills such as looking at others to see what they were doing. So, it was determined that she did have some possible auditory issue and needed visuals. They determined that she would have another child study in conjunction with her IEP in Nov.> > We have been blessed with the teacher she received for 3rd-grade. My oldest daughter had her and we are familiar with her and know she is very educated and helpful for the kids. She sent home a note about her teaching history and I found out that she started out her teaching career teaching special education. So hopefully she'll "see" what we are seeing. Even the speech pathologist blames her inability to "hear" things correctly on her speech. They claim she writes like she speaks". Well, duh, but she isn't fixing things she is corrected on. Her sentence structure is not always in order and her tenses are out of whack.> > My point

here is that I worked on a math worksheet with her yesterday. I had to "spoon feed" her everything. She didn't understand the concepts. Didn't even have the basic concepts that were needed to figure out the problems. She couldn't figure out if she had the number 12 and needed to get to the number 17, how to go about it-whether to add or subtract. Then, she couldn't subtract 2-digit numbers. She'd try and look like she was trying to figure it out in her head, but she had no idea.> > It was the same thing over 4 different times and she didn't understand the concept whatsoever. Even though I went through it step-by-step, used counters, etc. Then it went to the same thing in written (problem) form and she definitely didn't understand it. So, again, I had to spoon feed her. > > My problem is that I don't know how to explain it in a way that she understands it. Even Casey jumped in and tried to help. So, the two of us were trying

to help her with this worksheet that she had no understanding of.> > I've never had these types of issues with anyone before and was wondering what kind of "wrap-around" services might be available. It's been a long time since I've had to deal with the idea of wrap-around services, and I just wanted a "heads up" of what I might be able to get for her. > > Another thing they are doing right now are factor families where you have 5+1=6 and 1+5=6; 6-1=5 and 6-5=1. She had to write one (after doing several exercises showing them, and she wrote, 1+5=6 and 5-6=1. Yes, the last one is how she wrote it. She doesn't realize that 6 is bigger than 5 and unless you want a negative factor (which they don't do for another 2 years), it doesn't work.> > I am so frustrated at this point that I was about in tears because I felt like I couldn't help her to the point of being able to get her to understand.> > I am

going to have her tested for auditory once Tom's insurance takes effect. I started the process this summer, only to find that I had to take her to another place that didn't take Medicaid. Now that Tom has a job and insurance, I hope I can get this done before the child study and have more evidence to show.> > Thanks for any ideas, or answers to the wrap-around service question.> > -Melinda Hall>

[Guest guest]

Andie,

Yes, it is VERY frustrating. I do feel like I'm repeatedly slamming into a brick wall. They keep blaming everything on her speech. Uh, math is not speech. She can do the problems, once she figures out what she needs to do. It's just the understanding part. She has GREAT difficulty following directions. One step directions. But no one else (except my mom) has seen this. Speech is one thing. Language is one thing. But understanding is totally different. They say she writes the way she speaks. I am going to have to speak to the teacher because they do these sheets that they self-check, and the teacher doesn't see how many mistakes and the types of mistakes is making. I can't pinpoint what exactly is going on. I don't know if it's asperger's, if it's ADD, if it's a learning disability or if it's an IQ issue. I just don't know. And, until she starts FAILING, they won't test her. I do hope that something will arise before her annual IEP-which right

now is speech only. They are supposed to do a child study in conjunction with it, so I am hoping I'll have enough evidence to show something. She got her CogNat skills assessment (which I'm not really sure how to read or understand), AFTER school was out, so I didn't have anyone to ask, but her scores were VERY low. That should be a red flag right there. Her highest score on that was a 21. Our insurance should kick in in Oct, so hopefully I can get her the 2-hour test that she needs for auditory processing to see about that.

But my biggest problem is I don't know how to get her to understand. I have 3 other kids and we have a VERY small house at the moment so if they are all in the room, it's chaotic. There is no other room to go to. And the littlest one is always in demand for my attention. So trying to get her one-on-one can be difficult without distractions in the background. I can't afford a tutor. My husband just got a job in July after being laid-off since Dec. and he had to take a drastic cut in pay. and we are still trying to play catch-up from the lay-off period.

I am frustrated because I see the problems, and feel so hopeless in finding any help until she FAILS. That just isn't fair or right. And it just makes me so mad. So, hopefully the new teacher will realize what is going on. She has kids of her own who are now grown (girls), where the last teacher has no kids..... so maybe this will help.

Hope you get help as well. It is just sad these kids have to fail before they qualify for services.

-Melinda

[Guest guest]

>

> Yes, it is VERY frustrating. I do feel like I'm repeatedly slamming into a

brick wall. They keep blaming everything on her speech. Uh, math is not speech.

She can do the problems, once she figures out what she needs to do. It's just

the understanding part. She has GREAT difficulty following directions. One step

directions.

Melinda, this is executive dysfunction. I had problems, to put it mildly,

getting my school district to understand this too. What finally nailed it for

us was a comprehensive neuropsych eval with an autism specialist. It was

covered with our health insurance under mental health. It is pretty hard to get

schools to do these evaluations. I think I might have waited forever. The

school started listening once they heard it from a qualified professional.

Although this is something I am continually working on. For some reason, many

teachers and administrators understand little about executive dysfunction.

> But my biggest problem is I don't know how to get her to understand.

Not that I'm an expert, but going on my experience with my son who has pretty

severe executive dysfunction, I think you are heading in the right direction,

breaking things into small steps. Another thing is to make up nemonics to help

her remember all the steps. If her visual-spatial skills are good, she will

also remember things better by mapping, graphing, listing things.

Make sure you document everything for the school.

I managed to get my son who doesn't flunk help by continually stressing that

schools are as responsible for functioning as academics. When they start

talking grades and test scores, I remind them that this is a functioning

problem, not an academic problem. And I start giving them examples. Trust me,

everything is far from perfect, but we keep progressing.

Good luck!

[Guest guest]

Hi--I realized something was different already when our dd was in preschool, but

her teacher just 'reassured' me it was/would be fine. She was socially immature,

etc. She's outgoing, but the communication issues cause great difficulties.

She's in third grade this year. Last year, even though she had difficulties in

math, they didn't let her go to summer school for it (at the school's expense).

My husband's been laid off and we can't afford to pay for services. Anyway, she

hasn't passed her addition/subtraction tests for numbers up to 19. That should

qualify her for summer assistance, for goodness sake!

Overall, her school is pretty good and has just hired an autism specialist to

work only for their school district. I'm saying prayers about things getting

better.

I WISH TEACHERS HAD TO GO TO TRAINING TO LEARN ABOUT ASDs! If 1 out of 150 or

more students are in this ASD group as is commonly known now, you would think

their would be a desire, a need, to learn more about it--how to recognise it,

what to do, etc. I was told that their is no reason to test for Aspergers before

age 7, because that is the earliest an accurate assessment can be made. I took

my dd to a children's hospital where they did these assessments (thank goodness

our insurance at that time somewhat covered it). Having this assessment in hand,

it helped when I approached the school about it. We did end up going to a

different school where they offered services there.

Try getting/filling out the parent's forms used in assessments for AS. Or just

go down the list of AS traits and mark all the ones that apply to your child.

Maybe if they see on paper what you see and know about your child it could help

to speed things along. Maybe they are just waiting until the age of 7 like some

places told me was the way it is done (including the hospital). Many blessings

and prayers to all. Good luck to you. I know...waiting is the worst thing when

you know your child needs help...it tears my heart in two. --K

>

> Andie,

>  

> Yes, it is VERY frustrating. I do feel like I'm repeatedly slamming into a

brick wall. They keep blaming everything on her speech. Uh, math is not speech.

She can do the problems, once she figures out what she needs to do. It's just

the understanding part. She has GREAT difficulty following directions. One step

directions. But no one else (except my mom) has seen this. Speech is one thing.

Language is one thing. But understanding is totally different. They say she

writes the way she speaks. I am going to have to speak to the teacher because

they do these sheets that they self-check, and the teacher doesn't see how many

mistakes and the types of mistakes is making. I can't pinpoint what exactly

is going on. I don't know if it's asperger's, if it's ADD, if it's a learning

disability or if it's an IQ issue. I just don't know. And, until she starts

FAILING, they won't test her. I do hope that something will arise before her

annual IEP-which right now is

> speech only. They are supposed to do a child study in conjunction with it, so

I am hoping I'll have enough evidence to show something. She got her CogNat

skills assessment (which I'm not really sure how to read or understand), AFTER

school was out, so I didn't have anyone to ask, but her scores were VERY low.

That should be a red flag right there. Her highest score on that was a 21. Our

insurance should kick in in Oct, so hopefully I can get her the 2-hour test that

she needs for auditory processing to see about that.

>  

> But my biggest problem is I don't know how to get her to understand. I have 3

other kids and we have a VERY small house at the moment so if they are all in

the room, it's chaotic. There is no other room to go to. And the littlest one is

always in demand for my attention. So trying to get her one-on-one can be

difficult without distractions in the background. I can't afford a tutor. My

husband just got a job in July after being laid-off since Dec. and he had to

take a drastic cut in pay. and we are still trying to play catch-up from the

lay-off period.

>  

> I am frustrated because I see the problems, and feel so hopeless in finding

any help until she FAILS. That just isn't fair or right. And it just makes me so

mad. So, hopefully the new teacher will realize what is going on. She has kids

of her own who are now grown (girls), where the last teacher has no kids..... so

maybe this will help.

>  

>  

> Hope you get help as well. It is just sad these kids have to fail before they

qualify for services.

>  

> -Melinda

>  

>

>  

>

[Guest guest]

I don't think the math problem is related to her auditory problem so I

think the best thing is to get a full educational evaluation done. If

she cannot do the math, it will show up in her math scores in

achievement and ability testing. Her scores would be much lower than

expected. She may have a math disability (dyscalcula). There are math

programs out there to help kids who can't " get " math concepts. One

comes to mind is called, " Touch math " . I would encourage you to push

for an eval now because she is already getting behind.

 Roxanna

" The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do

nothing. " E. Burke

( ) Wrap-around services

Hello everyone,

Hard to believe I've been on here for 8 years!!!! is a senior

this year. I wish I could give everyone his case manager. He has been

the greatest and biggest asset in all of 's school experience!

He's had for the past 3 years (which has been THE BEST move on

the school's part-to allow him to keep him on his case load.)

really respects him and looks up to him. And the case manager can push

him and 20will respond. It's been wonderful. I have had the least

amount of work to do on my end for the past 3 years than his whole

school time!

Anyhow, just as I am having one leave the system, I have another one

coming up. 's having some auditory issues. I haven't quite been

able to pinpoint what exactly is going on with her. She's been in

speech since she was 22 months for one thing. My husband has an

auditory processing disorder, so it wouldn't be something " new " in the

family if she does. She has some aspie tendencies and now is starting

to show some OCD ones. However, we have been unable to get the school

to recognize any problems. We did a child study back in May, and the

teacher sat there and argued that she was FINE! However, by the end of

the meeting, she did finally admit that could have developed

coping skills such as looking at others to see what they were doing.

So, it was determined that she did have some possible auditory issue

and needed visuals. They determined that she would have another child

study in conjunction with her IEP in Nov.

We have been blessed with the teacher she received for 3rd-grade. My

oldest daughter had her and we are familiar with her and know she is

very educated and helpful for the kids. She sent home a note about her

teaching history and I found out that she started out her teaching

career teaching special education

.. So hopefully she'll " see " what we

are seeing. Even the speech pathologist blames her inability to " hear "

things correctly on her speech. They claim she writes like she speaks " .

Well, duh, but she isn't fixing things she is corrected on. Her

sentence structure is not always in order and her tenses are out of

whack.

My point here is that I worked on a math worksheet with her yesterday.

I had to " spoon feed " her everything. She didn't understand the

concepts. Didn't even have the basic concepts that were needed to

figure out the problems. She couldn't figure out if she had the number

12 and needed to get to the number 17, how to go about it-whether to

add or subtract. Then, she couldn't subtract 2-digit numbers. She'd try

and look like she was trying to figure it out in her head, but she had

no idea.

It was the same thing over 4 different times and she didn't understand

the concept whatsoever. Even though I went through it step-by-step,

used counters, etc. Then it went to the same thing in written (problem)

form and she definitely didn't understand it. So, again, I had to spoon

feed her.

My problem is that I don't know how to explain it in a way that she

understands it. Even Casey jumped in and tried to help. So, the two of

us were trying to help her with this worksheet that she had no

understanding of.

I've never had these types20of issues with anyone before and was

wondering what kind of " wrap-around " services might be available. It's

been a long time since I've had to deal with the idea of wrap-around

services, and I just wanted a " heads up " of what I might be able to get

for her.

Another thing they are doing right now are factor families where you

have 5+1=6 and 1+5=6; 6-1=5 and 6-5=1. She had to write one (after

doing several exercises showing them, and she wrote, 1+5=6 and 5-6=1.

Yes, the last one is how she wrote it. She doesn't realize that 6 is

bigger than 5 and unless you want a negative factor (which they don't

do for another 2 years), it doesn't work.

I am so frustrated at this point that I was about in tears because I

felt like I couldn't help her to the point of being able to get her to

understand.

I am going to have her tested for auditory once Tom's insurance takes

effect. I started the process this summer, only to find that I had to

take her to another place that didn't take Medicaid. Now that Tom has a

job and insurance, I hope I can get this done before the child study

and have more evidence to show.

Thanks for any ideas, or answers to the wrap-around service question.

-Melinda Hall