anxiety

[Guest guest]

Hi Chuck - you wrote…

" I doubt that evening administration will make a difference for T4 only

medication, but Armour or T3 could change the blood levels during sleep "

Research reported in the journal 'Clinical Endocrinology' found

that taking the same dose of levothyroxine (i.e., Synthroid) at bedtime, as

compared to first thing in the morning, might be better. " Effects

of evening vs morning thyroxine ingestion on serum thyroid hormone profiles in

hypothyroid patients " http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/117998170/abstract?CRETRY=1 & SRETRY=0

Although a small study,

it was conclusive in its findings and the researchers actually described the

results as " striking " and which have " important consequences for

the millions of patients who take levothyroxine daily " . Researchers

reported that taking medication at bedtime, rather than the morning, results in

“higher thyroid hormone concentrations and lower TSH

concentrations.” TSH decreased and Free T4 levels rose in all patients by

changing thyroxine ingestion from early morning to bedtime and T3 levels rose

in all but one subject. And TSH decreased irrespective of the starting TSH

levels, suggesting better absorption of the thyroid medication when taken in

the evening. Interestingly, the researchers found that the circadian TSH rhythm

-- the typical daily fluctuations of TSH that occur during a 24-hour period --

does not vary. The researchers suggest this may be because the conversion

process of T4 to T3 may be more effective in the evening. This study didn't take

into account the effects of T3 containing drugs

The researchers

suggested several explanations for the results and three of these are that (1)

even when waiting at least 30 minutes to eat, breakfast may be interfering with

the intestinal absorption of levothyroxine thyroxine. (2)“Bowel

motility is slower at night,” which means that it takes longer for the

levothyroxine tablet to transit through the intestinal system, resulting in

longer exposure to the intestinal wall, and therefore, better uptake of the

medication. (3)The conversion process of T4 to T3 may be more effective in the

evening. They also reported reported that taking levothyroxine at bedtime,

rather than the morning, results in “higher thyroid hormone

concentrations and lower TSH concentrations.” TSH decreased and Free T4

levels rose in all patients by changing thyroxine ingestion from early morning

to bedtime and T3 levels rose in all but one subject. Also, TSH decreased

irrespective of the starting TSH levels, suggesting better absorption of the

thyroid medication when taken in the evening. Interestingly, the researchers

found that the circadian TSH rhythm - the typical daily fluctuations of TSH

that occur during a 24-hour period - does not vary.

You have also seen the

many messages from members here, and surely other forums where they are

reporting how much better they feel since starting night-time dosing and how

their sleep pattern has changed and how much better they feel throughout the

day. Since taking my Armour at night, I have cut back by one grain as I

was finding during the morning, I was getting the 'too much' effect of feeling

spaced out and some palpitations. I no longer get those since decreasing the

dose.

Sheila

[Guest guest]

Sheila,

Again, that is likely an effect of absorption, not efficacy. They would

need to prove that an increased dosage given in the morning is somehow

less beneficial.

Chuck

> ... Research reported in the journal 'Clinical Endocrinology' found that

> taking the same dose of levothyroxine (i.e., Synthroid) at bedtime, as

> compared to first thing in the morning, might be better....

[Guest guest]

I took 3 grains of armour daily before night-time dosing. I took

1 1/2 grains before breakfast and 1 1/2 grains in the afternoon. Since

night-time dosing, there must be better absorption because many have

experimenters have need to decrease their dose, including my DH and myself. In

the case of us two, we appear to have proved that a decrease taking it at night

is more beneficial than taking an increased dose in the morning. I think

if this subject is to continue, it should perhaps be taken on to the LABGAB

science forum.

We need a bigger study to show the effect of all thyroid hormone

replacement taken at night.

Sheila

Sheila,

Again, that is likely an effect of absorption, not efficacy. They would

need to prove that an increased dosage given in the morning is somehow

less beneficial.

Chuck

> ... Research reported in the journal 'Clinical Endocrinology' found that

> taking the same dose of levothyroxine (i.e., Synthroid) at bedtime, as

> compared to first thing in the morning, might be better....

.._,___

[Guest guest]

Hi Chuck and Sheila ~

I have no studies to cite, but I've read T3 peaks in the body around midnight and does most of its detoxification efforts in the liver during the night. This may explain why a night-time dose is more effective.

take care,

~

-----Original Message-----From: thyroid treatment [mailto:thyroid treatment ]On Behalf Of Sheila Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2008 12:40 PMthyroid treatment Subject: RE: Re: anxiety

I took 3 grains of armour daily before night-time dosing. I took 1 1/2 grains before breakfast and 1 1/2 grains in the afternoon. Since night-time dosing, there must be better absorption because many have experimenters have need to decrease their dose, including my DH and myself. In the case of us two, we appear to have proved that a decrease taking it at night is more beneficial than taking an increased dose in the morning. I think if this subject is to continue, it should perhaps be taken on to the LABGAB science forum.

We need a bigger study to show the effect of all thyroid hormone replacement taken at night.

Sheila

Sheila,Again, that is likely an effect of absorption, not efficacy. They would need to prove that an increased dosage given in the morning is somehow less beneficial.Chuck> ... Research reported in the journal 'Clinical Endocrinology' found that > taking the same dose of levothyroxine (i.e., Synthroid) at bedtime, as > compared to first thing in the morning, might be better....

.._,___

[Guest guest]

Chuck probably has an explanation for that - I have done

tons of research but my old brain can't retain what it used to, but there is a

vague memory of this somewhere.

Luv Sheila

Hi Chuck and Sheila ~

I have no studies to cite, but I've read T3 peaks in the body

around midnight and does most of its detoxification efforts in the liver during

the night. This may explain why a night-time dose is more effective.

take care,

~

I took 3 grains of armour daily before

night-time dosing. I took 1 1/2 grains before breakfast and 1 1/2 grains in the

afternoon. Since night-time dosing, there must be better absorption because

many have experimenters have need to decrease their dose, including my DH and

myself. In the case of us two, we appear to have proved that a decrease taking

it at night is more beneficial than taking an increased dose in the

morning. I think if this subject is to continue, it should perhaps be

taken on to the LABGAB science forum.

We need a bigger study to show the

effect of all thyroid hormone replacement taken at night.

Sheila

Sheila,

Again, that is likely an effect of absorption, not efficacy. They would

need to prove that an increased dosage given in the morning is somehow

less beneficial.

Chuck

> ... Research reported in the journal 'Clinical Endocrinology' found that

> taking the same dose of levothyroxine (i.e., Synthroid) at bedtime, as

> compared to first thing in the morning, might be better....

.._,___

[Guest guest]

Would that not involve a costly research project Chuck?

Is it not similar to the split dosing (for dogs anyway) in that the

PIL says once a day in the morning when it is common knowledge that

twice a day is better?

Mo

>

> Again, that is likely an effect of absorption, not efficacy. They

would

> need to prove that an increased dosage given in the morning is

somehow

> less beneficial.

>

> Chuck

>

> > ... Research reported in the journal 'Clinical Endocrinology'

found that

> > taking the same dose of levothyroxine (i.e., Synthroid) at

bedtime, as

> > compared to first thing in the morning, might be better....

>

[Guest guest]

T3 is involved in detoxification ? Tell me more? Mo

>

> Hi Chuck and Sheila ~

>

> I have no studies to cite, but I've read T3 peaks in the body around

> midnight and does most of its detoxification efforts in the liver

during the

> night. This may explain why a night-time dose is more effective.

>

> take care,

>

> ~

>

> RE: Re: anxiety

>

>

> I took 3 grains of armour daily before night-time dosing. I took

1 1/2

> grains before breakfast and 1 1/2 grains in the afternoon. Since

night-time

> dosing, there must be better absorption because many have

experimenters have

> need to decrease their dose, including my DH and myself. In the

case of us

> two, we appear to have proved that a decrease taking it at night is

more

> beneficial than taking an increased dose in the morning. I think

if this

> subject is to continue, it should perhaps be taken on to the LABGAB

science

> forum.

>

>

>

> We need a bigger study to show the effect of all thyroid hormone

> replacement taken at night.

>

>

>

> Sheila

>

> Sheila,

>

> Again, that is likely an effect of absorption, not efficacy. They

would

> need to prove that an increased dosage given in the morning is

somehow

> less beneficial.

>

> Chuck

>

> > ... Research reported in the journal 'Clinical Endocrinology'

found that

> > taking the same dose of levothyroxine (i.e., Synthroid) at

bedtime, as

> > compared to first thing in the morning, might be better....

>

> ._,___

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You wrote:

>

>

> I have no studies to cite, but I've read T3 peaks in the body around

> midnight and does most of its detoxification efforts in the liver during

> the night. This may explain why a night-time dose is more effective....

It also peaks in the afternoon, so I am not sure this fits entirely.

However, it is consistent with what I said about the difference between

T4 and T3, since T3 will peak a couple of hours after taking it, but T4

barely ripples, regardless of when you take it.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Mo,

You wrote:

>

> Would that not involve a costly research project Chuck?

There are two issues. If taking it at night just allows for a lower

dose, then you could just as well take a slightly larger dose in the

morning. However, at least some claimed better sleep and all around

better effects. For that, my guess is that it would much less likely to

happen for T4 only meds than for Armour.

But yes, to tease such an effect out of the noise would take a costly

research project.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

Sorry you're having anxiety. I have dealt with that all my life, sometimes very

severe. Lately as long as I am stabilizing my blood sugar I'm ok. Which means I

have to eat something with protein and fat every 2 or 3 hours. I'm starting the

Bee's Egg Drink to help with this as well. (Though I only do 2 eggs, butter, and

about 1/2 tsp of coconut oil at a time right now. I'm able to handle lots of

cinnamon.) Eggs tend to bring me out of an anxiety attack. Seriously. Anyway,

massage helps, aromatherapy has helped me in the past. Peppermint, lavender.

There are some Young Living essential oils for calming anxiety and other

emotions. (I sell them so if you have any questions you can email me off list or

look up the website.) Rescue Remedy by Bach's Flower essences is sometimes

helpful. Passionflower in an alcohol-free liquid form dropper worked pretty well

for me too but it's a little pricey. But it has helped me within 10 minutes and

it tastes just like tea.

Herbal teas are a little less expensive, such as chamomile, valerian.

Lots of things I've tried as you can see. Not to promote medication because I've

had some horrible experiences and don't recommend going on them, but

unfortunately I've had to be on Klonopin in desperate moments. Now I'm going

through the tapering off which is hard especially on top of the candida stuff.

Hope you find something that works. I really believe the candida is what causes

the anxiety so as long as you're not feeding it, but feeding yourself the good

stuff I'm sure you will get some relief.

ita

[Guest guest]

Deep breathing is the best thing you can do, Sharon. Keep your mouth closed so

you're only breathing through your nose. Make sure you take the deep breaths all

the way down into your belly because the body's natural relaxation trigger spot

is located right above the navel. So, as you inhale you should expand your belly

and then gently contract your belly as you exhale. Do this at least 3 times and

in this case, more IS better! It also helps to try and smooth out the " texture "

of your breath and to make the inhale breaths last the same length of time as

the exhale breaths.

I'm a yoga teacher and I teach this breath technique to all my students to

encourage relaxation. It switches your body from the flight/fright response (the

sympathetic nervous system) to the parasympathetic nervous system (relaxation

response).

jackie

>

> To any of you experiencing anxiety...

>

> What do you do to relieve anxiety? Especially when you are out and about or

> at work.

>

> -Sharon

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Sharon,

>

> Sorry you're having anxiety. I have dealt with that all my life, sometimes

very severe. Lately as long as I am stabilizing my blood sugar I'm ok. Which

means I have to eat something with protein and fat every 2 or 3 hours. I'm

starting the Bee's Egg Drink to help with this as well. (Though I only do 2

eggs, butter, and about 1/2 tsp of coconut oil at a time right now. I'm able to

handle lots of cinnamon.) Eggs tend to bring me out of an anxiety attack.

Seriously. Anyway, massage helps, aromatherapy has helped me in the past.

Peppermint, lavender. There are some Young Living essential oils for calming

anxiety and other emotions. (I sell them so if you have any questions you can

email me off list or look up the website.) Rescue Remedy by Bach's Flower

essences is sometimes helpful. Passionflower in an alcohol-free liquid form

dropper worked pretty well for me too but it's a little pricey. But it has

helped me within 10 minutes and it tastes just like tea.

+++Hi ita. Please do not recommend treatments for candida sufferers other

than those I recommend - see this article on Anxiety & Depression:

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/treat6.php

+++More treatments is not better, since " proper nutrients " are what heals such

symptoms. People who use alternative treatments, herbs, teas, etc. often

overwhelm their bodies, which can slow or even stop the healing process.

Bee

[Guest guest]

Jackie,

Its my husband having the anxiety.. He says when he does

the deep breathing he gets lightheaded. What would cause that? Is there a

way to avoid getting lightheaded?

Another question: Are there trigger points to help when

you get carsick when riding in a car? That's another one of his issues.

Thanks for any advice!

-Sharon

Deep breathing is the best thing you can do, Sharon. Keep your mouth closed

so you're only breathing through your nose. Make sure you take the deep

breaths all the way down into your belly because the body's natural

relaxation trigger spot is located right above the navel. So, as you inhale

you should expand your belly and then gently contract your belly as you

exhale. Do this at least 3 times and in this case, more IS better! It also

helps to try and smooth out the " texture " of your breath and to make the

inhale breaths last the same length of time as the exhale breaths.

I'm a yoga teacher and I teach this breath technique to all my students to

encourage relaxation. It switches your body from the flight/fright response

(the sympathetic nervous system) to the parasympathetic nervous system

(relaxation response).

jackie

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17:56:00

[Guest guest]

> Its my husband having the anxiety.. He says when he does

> the deep breathing he gets lightheaded. What would cause that? Is there a

> way to avoid getting lightheaded?

Hi Sharon,

some people get lightheaded when they do deep breathing because their body is

not used to the amount of oxygen that they are taking in and being distributed

throughout the body. If your husband gets light headed he should stop the deep

breathing and resume whatever is his " normal " method of breathing and then try

the deep, nose breathing again. If he continues to " practice " this method of

breathing his body will become used to it and the lightheadedness will diminish.

I mentioned in my earlier post that the body's natural relaxation trigger point

is in the belly. Interestingly, the body's stress trigger point is in the upper

chest. When a person is stressed they often breathe very shallowly, usually only

into their chest area. Therefore, they are constantly triggering their stress

response just by the way they breathe! Stress hormones are constantly being

secreted, we don't get adequate oxygen, we blow out our adrenals, etc...just

because we're not breathing well.

Did you ever notice how when you are in a stressful situation sometimes your

body automatically takes a deep, expansive breath through your belly? Like a big

sigh? After that you almost always feel calmer, clearer and better able to

handle whatever is stressing you out. It's because you took that deep breath

into the belly and triggered your own relaxation hormones. The body is wise

enough to know what to do but we so often bypass it anbd go right back into bad,

shallow breathing rhythms. Conscious deep breathing is sooooooo healing on a

number of levels.

Many, many people never take deep breaths, plus, we're so used to keeping our

belly sucked in for vanity reasons that we've become a society of stressed out

people because we're not getting adequate and relaxing, deep breaths.

>

> Another question: Are there trigger points to help when

> you get carsick when riding in a car? That's another one of his issues.

>

There probably is but I don't know it. I would imagine you could Google and find

out.

jackie

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

>

>

> Jackie,

>

> Its my husband having the anxiety.. He says when he does

> the deep breathing he gets lightheaded. What would cause that? Is there a

> way to avoid getting lightheaded?

>

> Another question: Are there trigger points to help when

> you get carsick when riding in a car? That's another one of his issues.

>

>

>

> Thanks for any advice!

>

> -Sharon

>

>

> Hi Sharon, his anxiety is most likely due to too much die off. When it is too

overwhelming deep breathing makes it worse for me. Have him cut back on

antifungals.

kelly

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>Another question: Are there trigger points to help when you get carsick when

riding in a car? That's another one of his issues.

+++Hi Sharon. Yes, there are trigger points on the wrists. You can buy wrist

bands that put pressure on the points, which can be wore when needed, in a car

or on a boat:

http://www.travelband.com/about-travelband.htm

Bee

[Guest guest]

> Its my husband having the anxiety.. He says when he does

> the deep breathing he gets lightheaded. What would cause that?

> Is there a way to avoid getting lightheaded?

Hyperventilating. (Getting too much oxygen). Breath just as deeply but more

slowly. (Fewer breaths per minute).

- Roy

[Guest guest]

5-htp helped my anxiety and depression. Also helps me sleep longer and deeper. I

take 100mg three times a day on an empty stomache.

>

> Does anyone know of a supplement or anything over-the-counter that helps with

anxiety? I would appreciate any suggestions. Thank you for your help!

>

> Sue

>

[Guest guest]

This may seem like I'm being a jokester, but I'm actually serious: What about

medical marijhuana? I saw a documentary on it recently and some of the things

it shows promise for are brain trauma, (which, if hypoperfusion of the brain is

the cause of " brain fog " , might apply to us), pain, anxiety and sleep disorders.

Sounds like just the thing for CFS'rs. I'm in Canada and marijhuana is not

viewed as a serious drug and we do make it available, via prescription, to those

to whom it is deemed necessary and/or helpful, (predominately those undergoing

chemo and/or people in great pain). I think the U.S. views it as a more serious

drug, but is it available by prescription there?

I sure haven't had the nerve to even suggest it to my doc and I question whether

I'd want to be " high " when I'm already fuzzy brained all the time anyway. But I

am curious, especially about its benefit for sleep.

Any comments or experiences?

>

> Does anyone know of a supplement or anything over-the-counter that helps with

anxiety? I would appreciate any suggestions. Thank you for your help!

>

> Sue

>

[Guest guest]

" sb2boys " <sb2boys@...> wrote:

>

> Does anyone know of a supplement or anything over-the-counter that

> helps with anxiety? I would appreciate any suggestions.

> Thank you for your help!

>

> Sue

Best to look into causes for the anxiety, take a wider view of

personal case on all levels of being, then address the causes of

the anxiety more closely.

Carol W.

willis_protocols

[Guest guest]

>>> it shows promise for brain trauma, <<<<

What did they mean? What promise does it show? I'm trying to picture how pot

would help a brain injury.

Some people do use it to " take the edge off/relax/go to sleep " , etc., so guess

you might say it could help anxiety or sleep.

But, it also can cause MAJOR anxiety and paranoia in others.

Plus, it is a drug and can be very addictive. So, then one could develop anxiety

if they

" came off " of it, wanted to skip it, or do not have it available.

And , as Carol said, the core source of anxiety would have to be examined, to

not end up just " anesthestising " , and causing problems to escalate.

I'm not saying it should not be used as medicine, for specific things, but these

points need consideration.

I was told by Medical Marijuana people years ago, plus my doctor that I qualify

for it, due to my Neuro movement disorders. But at that time, did not find clear

evidence from others that it would help.

And I'm highly sensitive to all drugs, and clean and sober, and want to stay

that way. But, it's on the back burner...waaaaay back...for future...something

severe and untreatable...other than just " taking the edge off " .

It also causes memory loss and other brain changes (damage? don't know. My Pot

Head friends are pretty cognitively fried and apathetic...but this may vary).

In case I ever begin Medical Marijuana, please try to forget that I wrote this

lol.

my 2c,

Katrina

> >

> > Does anyone know of a supplement or anything over-the-counter that helps

with anxiety? I would appreciate any suggestions. Thank you for your help!

> >

> > Sue

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Does anyone know of a supplement or anything over-the-counter that helps with

anxiety? I would appreciate any suggestions. Thank you for your help!

>

> Sue

>

GABA!

Magnesium.

I also find that low B12 causes physiological anxiety.

Nina

[Guest guest]

40 years ago, it was the perfect hangover cure. I don't think that I could

now cope with the dissociation it induces. However, if my pain levels get

worse, I'll give it another whirl

R

Re: Anxiety

> This may seem like I'm being a jokester, but I'm actually serious: What

> about medical marijhuana? I saw a documentary on it recently and some of

> the things it shows promise for are brain trauma, (which, if hypoperfusion

> of the brain is the cause of " brain fog " , might apply to us), pain,

> anxiety and sleep disorders. Sounds like just the thing for CFS'rs. I'm

> in Canada and marijhuana is not viewed as a serious drug and we do make it

> available, via prescription, to those to whom it is deemed necessary

> and/or helpful, (predominately those undergoing chemo and/or people in

> great pain). I think the U.S. views it as a more serious drug, but is it

> available by prescription there?

>

> I sure haven't had the nerve to even suggest it to my doc and I question

> whether I'd want to be " high " when I'm already fuzzy brained all the time

> anyway. But I am curious, especially about its benefit for sleep.

>

> Any comments or experiences?

>

>

>

>>

>> Does anyone know of a supplement or anything over-the-counter that helps

>> with anxiety? I would appreciate any suggestions. Thank you for your

>> help!

>>

>> Sue

>>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

> other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

> discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Does anyone know of a supplement or anything over-the-counter that helps

with anxiety? I would appreciate any suggestions. Thank you for your help!

> >

> > Sue

> >

>

> GABA!

> Magnesium.

>

> I also find that low B12 causes physiological anxiety.

>

> Nina

Also, Valerian.

For nighttime: benadryl, although it can dehydrate you. Otherwise, it makes you

feel calm and cozy and gives you good dreams.

People also swear by Resue Remedy.

Something I have not tried is Rescue Remedy, but people swear by it.

[Guest guest]

Treatments I recommend for anxiety:

1. Relaxation/brain training/mind-body therapies.

1. RelaxMate II photostimulation glasses. www.selfhealthsystems.com

2. Guided imagery CD’s/mp3’s.

i. ‘Letting Go of Stress’ by Dr. Emmett - www.drmiller.com

ii. ‘Stress Relief Through Guided Imagery’ by Dr. Rossman -

www.thehealingmind.org

3. emWave biofeedback technology by HeartMath. www.heartmath.com.au

4. Holosync audio technology. www.meditate.com.au/ & www.centerpointe.com/

5. Meditation.

6. Coherent breathing. www.coherence.com/

7. Kundalini yoga meditation. www.theinternetyogi.com/

1. Neurotransmitter modulation.

1. 5-HTP or St ’s Wort à Serotonin.

2. GABA.